Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

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summerof42
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Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by summerof42 »

Would greatly appreciate your input and honest input. I'm looking to retire someplace warm since I do not tolerate the cold. I have friends in Florida (Tampa, Sarasota, etc) and ditto for Arizona (Scottsdale) and no need to worry about leaving family here.

I've gone over pros and cons for months and can't make a decision. I won't list the pros here, the con to AZ is cost of housing and I don't know how I could afford it. I was shocked to see the pricing. A really nice condo and town homes START in the $500k range and run into the millions. And then of course the snakes and scorpions. . . but if it was all that bad, why do so many enjoy living out there?

The con to Florida is off course the hurricanes and mosquitos.

So, I thought it's best to take my question to the good folks that live there. Thanks for your input!
livesoft
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by livesoft »

Go rent in each location for a little while. I don't see how you can possibly make a choice by reading what people say about the places here.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by runner3081 »

summerof42 wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:03 am Would greatly appreciate your input and honest input. I'm looking to retire someplace warm since I do not tolerate the cold. I have friends in Florida (Tampa, Sarasota, etc) and ditto for Arizona (Scottsdale) and no need to worry about leaving family here.

I've gone over pros and cons for months and can't make a decision. I won't list the pros here, the con to AZ is cost of housing and I don't know how I could afford it. I was shocked to see the pricing. A really nice condo and town homes START in the $500k range and run into the millions. And then of course the snakes and scorpions. . . but if it was all that bad, why do so many enjoy living out there?
Must you be in Scottsdale? House prices are starting to get a bit crazy there. If retired, could live southeast or or west valley and save significantly on housing costs. Those areas are exploding so many of the same amenities are available now or soon to be.

We moved down to the valley 8-years ago from Seattle and love it. Scorpions are area specific and treatable. We had 30+ in the house for the first few years until I started spraying. Snakes, we have seen a rattler in the yard, and across the street.

Most people in the city down here have never and will never see a scorpion or snake.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by DaufuskieNate »

Having moved from the Southeast to the West, I can tell you that humidity is a huge difference. If you have a preference between humid and dry, that should be something to consider.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by BionicBillWalsh »

summerof42 wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:03 am The con to Florida is off course the hurricanes and mosquitos.
You didn’t even mention gators...or even worse, Floridians.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by Sandtrap »

Arizona is a big place that goes from near sea level to a mile high. And, a wide range of home prices.
Summer hottest temperatures range from 120 in Phoenix to 80-90's in Flagstaff, Prescott, etc, which are a mile high.
And, Phoenix is not Arizona. From desert sand to high mountain National Forests and mountain lakes.

Where have you looked?
Condo, townhouse, or home?
Budget?
Needs: open spaces or city, etc...?

j :D

Goldwater Lake in Prescott, Arizona: National Forest, Bradshaw mountains.
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btenny
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by btenny »

I do not know where you were looking but most of Arizona is not expensive. There are lots of homes and condos in the $200K to $400K price range. See below for a Zillow map of homes in this price range in metro Phoenix area. This part of AZ has no snakes or scorpions. They left decades ago.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/h ... 22%3A11%7D
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by btenny »

Here is a similar Zillow map of homes in the Sun City area. This is a over 55 area in west part of the Phoenix metro.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/h ... 22%3A13%7D
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by JoMoney »

Not a Floridian or Arizonan myself, but I've spent time and have family in both.
I don't mind Arizona's scorching heat, but Florida's humidity is not my cup of tea. Parts of Arizona can get a touch of humidity during monsoon, but it's not persistent like Florida's :annoyed

Personally, I also get a different 'vibe' from the east coast that doesn't feel as comfortable or 'at home' to me as out west.
Look out Arizona :shock: :twisted: , when I run from California you're high on my list 8-)
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by adamthesmythe »

Living in AZ right now.

Scottsdale is highly desirable and expensive. I'm sure there are towns in Florida that are similarly desirable and expensive. You need to broaden your search.

Visit the friends in both places. Travel around some, and then make up your mind. No, you don't need to rent in both places if you don't want to.

While AZ does have scorpions, Florida has alligators.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by Gill »

summerof42 wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:03 am I'm looking to retire someplace warm since I do not tolerate the cold.
Don't come to Florida then. It was in the 20's and 30's here this morning. :happy
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by Hayden »

As others have said, there's a lot more to AZ than Scottsdale. Take a look at the area west of Phoenix (eg, Surprise, Verrado, Sun City).
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by David Jay »

Gill wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:49 am
summerof42 wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:03 am I'm looking to retire someplace warm since I do not tolerate the cold.
Don't come to Florida then. It was in the 20's and 30's here this morning. :happy
Gill
I'm guessing not Miami/Dade...
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by Gill »

David Jay wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:54 am
Gill wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:49 am
summerof42 wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:03 am I'm looking to retire someplace warm since I do not tolerate the cold.
Don't come to Florida then. It was in the 20's and 30's here this morning. :happy
Gill
I'm guessing not Miami/Dade...
That's a whole other world. :happy
Gill
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by howard71 »

Sarasota/Bradenton would be a great choice for retirement. I'm in Tampa but was just down there a couple of weeks ago.

Don't remember any hurricanes hitting down there but I may have forgotten. They tend to round the corner down in the keys and then head north so we don't get them as often as the Panhandle.

As for mosquitos that concern is way overblown unless you go out into the wild somewhere. I don't remember when the last time I even saw a mosquito around my place, even walking through a mangrove swamp.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by Sandtrap »

Oak Creek, Sedona, Arizona
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Oak Creek Country Club, Sedona, Arizona
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by David Jay »

Sandtrap wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:04 pmOak Creek Country Club, Sedona, Arizona
Image
Love the picture but not the shot!
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by iamblessed »

Northern Arizona would be my pick of those two states. Florida is to humid for me.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by Sandtrap »

David Jay wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:07 pm
Sandtrap wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:04 pmOak Creek Country Club, Sedona, Arizona
Image
Love the picture but not the shot!
Oak Creek Country Club
4rth Hole
Tees: black : 160 yards, blue: 150 yards, white (seniors?) 125 yards, etc.
Narrow tree lined fairway. Water is actually on the left of the greenside so not a tee shot over water (shucks). Heavy traps in front so go long as there's space behind the green for rolloff. Layup is not an option. White and shorter tees are good for high "senior" gap or sand wedge. Fun hole.

There's a similar type of hole in a couple resort and private courses in Hawaii. Couple par 3's, one is a short par 4. Forced carry over a lake. Fun. Leave new balls in the bag.

Arizona is not Hawaii as far as resort courses but there are some great courses that include stops by the PGA and LPGA tour.

A good diversity of golf in Arizona: wide open and flat for the long ball hitters, mountain courses with narrow tree lined fairways for the precision golfers, and more, as well as hot for those that like heat, and cool for those that like cool.

Also other outdoor activities for those that like that, National forests, wide open land mostly accessible to all, and lakes for fishing and boating.

I don't know the truth of it but someone once told me that, in comparison, some states have 90% of the land privately owned and not for public use, and Arizona had 90% or so of it's land open for public use.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by Dude2 »

The suggestion of trying each is a good one. Allergies could be a factor. Although I do ok in southern Florida, I recall driving to the Grand Canyon during Easter once and sneezing like crazy when those cacti are pollenating. Similarly the kind of high-humidity mold/fungi we get here could be a problem versus the dry climate kinds there.

Sunshine gets an A+ on each choice.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by DesertDiva »

OP stated:
I do not tolerate the cold
This would exclude areas in Northern Arizona with high elevations, particularly Flagstaff.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by smitcat »

BionicBillWalsh wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:45 am
summerof42 wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:03 am The con to Florida is off course the hurricanes and mosquitos.
You didn’t even mention gators...or even worse, Floridians.
Thats because gators are not an issue - worry about cows and dogs if you need to worry about anything at all....
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by quantAndHold »

There are cheaper parts of Arizona, and more expensive parts of Florida. Also, look at the total cost of housing, not just the price of the house. There are great disparities in property taxes and insurance cost, even within each of those states.

Regardless, do you prefer 90 degrees with 90 percent humidity, or 110 degrees with 10% humidity? That will answer your question.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by dru808 »

Do you like wet & warm air? That’s what you’ll get in Florida.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by Sandtrap »

summerof42 wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:03 am Would greatly appreciate your input and honest input. I'm looking to retire someplace warm since I do not tolerate the cold. I have friends in Florida (Tampa, Sarasota, etc) and ditto for Arizona (Scottsdale) and no need to worry about leaving family here.

I've gone over pros and cons for months and can't make a decision. I won't list the pros here, the con to AZ is cost of housing and I don't know how I could afford it. I was shocked to see the pricing. A really nice condo and town homes START in the $500k range and run into the millions. And then of course the snakes and scorpions. . . but if it was all that bad, why do so many enjoy living out there?

The con to Florida is off course the hurricanes and mosquitos.

So, I thought it's best to take my question to the good folks that live there. Thanks for your input!
What is your housing budget range?
Do you like city or country or rural living?
Do you like to live in a home, townhouse, or condo?
Do you have to have a 55+ community?
Activities (indoor or outdoor)?
etc.

j :D
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by Register44 »

:arrow:
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (where to live).
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by btenny »

Register. Arizona has low property taxes and low income taxes for retirees. It also has almost no natural disaster things like hurricanes or earth quakes. So home insurance costs are low. SO net net home owner tax costs are low.

Florida may have no income tax but it has huge home insurance costs. This item makes up for no income tax.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by Lee_WSP »

We have no humidity, but it's still an oven during July and August.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by Equitius »

.....
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adamthesmythe
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by adamthesmythe »

Register44 wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:01 pm Forgive me if I missed it, but has no one mentioned the huge bonus FL has of no state income taxes?
1. Not a huge bonus.

2. Not enough for me to even think about living in Florida.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by BionicBillWalsh »

http://www.arizonawaterfacts.com/do-we-have-enough

I’d worry about water supply if I lived anywhere in the Southwest.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans!

Post by an_asker »

btenny wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:36 am I do not know where you were looking but most of Arizona is not expensive. There are lots of homes and condos in the $200K to $400K price range.[...]
[...]
I would say the western and eastern seaboards would be the only places where $200k-$400k price range would not be considered "expensive."
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by hoops777 »

I lived in Az for 3 years, in California for the rest of my life.
Your housing costs for Az are way off unless you are looking at one very specific small area.
As others have said, dry heat vs humidity. Huge difference if it matters to you.
Give me Arizona by a long shot over the humidity and bugs of Florida. Of course no beaches though if that matters.
Arizona also has a great airport and is a bit more centrally located than Florida.
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summerof42
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by summerof42 »

Hoops. . . agree.

I would love to move to California which is actually where my oldest son lives (San Diego) and fell in love with it a couple of years back, BUT I got sticker shock! My average (1,500 sq ft) 3-bedroom brick home I presently own in the Midwest would be in the millions out there. Personally, I don't know how those folks can afford it.

But I sure did love out there; who wouldn't!
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by hoops777 »

summerof42 wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:42 pm Hoops. . . agree.

I would love to move to California which is actually where my oldest son lives (San Diego) and fell in love with it a couple of years back, BUT I got sticker shock! My average (1,500 sq ft) 3-bedroom brick home I presently own in the Midwest would be in the millions out there. Personally, I don't know how those folks can afford it.

But I sure did love out there; who wouldn't!
I live in the Bay Area in one of the nicest cities, central location, 1350 sq ft single level duet,attached to one other house, value about 850,000.
When we lived in AZ in early 2000, the houses were about 1/3 the cost in the areas we were looking vs the Bay Area in general. We visited AZ last year, the West Valley, and found that still to be pretty true, but not 100 pct.
K.I.S.S........so easy to say so difficult to do.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by dcdowden »

Very interesting post to me, because we spend our winters split between South Florida and Arizona and I have often asked myself that question if we ever wanted to just go to one or the other. We spend January/February in South Florida (Pompano Beach) and March in Arizona (Scottsdale).

We love staying on the beach in Florida and the weather that time of year is about as good as you can find anyplace in the US. But at the end of a month or so, I am ready to go home - just way too crowded - lots of traffic everywhere. We have also spent time on the Gulf Coast of Florida, and it also seems extremely crowded - at least in the Winter months. Property prices in Florida also get very high the closer you are to the ocean, although you can always find an older condo away from the Ocean for a reasonable price. Insurance and property taxes in Florida are significant issues. My MIL has a 2 BR condo 10 miles from the Ocean and the insurance is double her property taxes. But she has had previous claims for hurricane damage.

We love the tremendous variety of geography in Arizona. The two hour drive from Flagstaff to Phoenix takes you from 7000 ft to 1500 ft with a wonderful change in vegetation and scenery. Places like Sedona (absolutely beautiful scenery) or Prescott in between give you some other options - especially in terms of climate. We love Scottsdale/Phoenix in March since everything is in bloom - even the desert if it has been a wetter winter. There can be traffic jams in Phoenix, but I feel far more comfortable in that area. Everything is much newer and more spread out than in Florida - and there just aren't as many people - even at prime times like March Spring Training Season. Others have mentioned that housing prices vary widely in the area. Even Scottsdale has many older/newer and different areas with different pricing - I've looked.

Unfortunately, we are not going either place this year because of Covid 19, but hope to do go in future years. We actually enjoy Spring/Summer/Fall being home near Chicago for the rest of the year. Although property taxes are 4 times what recent friends who moved to Arizona are paying for comparable homes.

Good Luck
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by hoops777 »

hoops777 wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:28 pm I lived in Az for 3 years, in California for the rest of my life.
Your housing costs for Az are way off unless you are looking at one very specific small area.
As others have said, dry heat vs humidity. Huge difference if it matters to you.
Give me Arizona by a long shot over the humidity and bugs of Florida. Of course no beaches though if that matters.
Arizona also has a great airport and is a bit more centrally located than Florida.

NO HURRICANES!
K.I.S.S........so easy to say so difficult to do.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by Pu239 »

OP - Do you like water or not? It's a finite and, in some places, expensive resource.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by FlamePoint »

We just moved to AZ from WA 5 months ago. Chose the West valley based on cost of housing, less crowded, and we chop off one hour of the drive to LA or Vegas.

Love the dry heat here and constant sunshine. Built a new home, and had some scorpions in the house the first month or two until we hired a recurring pest service to spray. Haven’t seen a rattlesnake yet, but it’s probably just a matter of time. We’re in the outskirts of town with a lot of open desert surrounding us, so I know they’re out there. Once the pool is done and filled I’m sure it will attract some critters.

Scottsdale is really nice, but pretty pricey. Also, I’m told the vibe there is different...if you have money and live there, great. If not, it can be hard to fit in.

But, all in all happy with our decision. Our NW family and friends are already lining up to visit.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by LiveSimple »

Interested for me too, so following. I am trying to live in California as well, and check it out.
In Florida our choices are Tampa, Clear water, Lake Mary, Orlando area and Jacksonville.

Will check AZ places listed.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by IMO »

What always gets me about this site is people pick a city, and then pick the most expensive place they can in the city and presume there are no other very reasonable areas to live in that city. Maybe part of the problem is only listening to those who live in the exclusive high priced areas that cannot imagine living anywhere else below what they are accustomed.

Or then they will start to take advice from people that have never lived in an area over someone who has/does live there. Then you'll get all the criticisms about the summer weather. PM if you want some feedback outside of Scottsdale.
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by Paul69 »

Equitius wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:03 pm Florida is one of the worst states to retire in. Sorry.

https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/ret ... index.html
Kiplinger must be getting desperate for original material! Some of the points are valid, but others are just gross generalizations that are pathetically simplistic!

Florida has critters (#2), just like literally every other state. #6 says "you won't be outside as much as you think", but #8 says "the sun will take a toll on your skin". Yes, swimming pools are expensive (#7), but only in Florida! I guess the pools in other states cost less?

The author's Arizona article is just as deep- https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/ret ... index.html
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by Dude2 »

^^^
I've never owned a pool, but I was shocked to see...
kiplinger wrote:It costs $177 a week, on average, to maintain a standard 14-by-28-foot pool.
Most folks around here (south Florida) have pretty modest little pools in their tiny yards. I thought if you got past the initial cost (say 20-30k), that it was smooth sailing from there. If it truly is that costly per week, talk about a non-Boglehead thing to have!
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by Moneybags1 »

Forget about the critters. Traffic congestion and drugs in and around cities is no different than the North. I live in Citrus County pop 150k as of 2019. Still rural with lots of retiree subdivisions, low crime and if you don't have to work a decent quality of life. Taxes are low and the county is not far from Tampa/Orlando but far enough from the chaos. Ocala a small city is the Big City here, 25 miles away. There are other even more rural counties to the North.. I have lived here for 25 years and worked for 2 going on 3 generations of retirees. Now we just had a cold snap of the mid 20's last week, 30's this week at night. Count on as many as 7 months a year as a humid heat wave and usually 5-6 of mild temps around 75-80. Would be happy to answer any questions about this particular area. My personal suggestion would be to avoid gated communities with high fees unless that is what you want. To the East there is a huge traffic infested area known as the Villages that encompasses portions of 3 counties and known as the STD capital of the world.

https://www.citrusbocc.com/
DesertDiva
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:49 pm
Location: In the desert

Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by DesertDiva »

FlamePoint wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:23 am...Haven’t seen a rattlesnake yet, but it’s probably just a matter of time...
I have a relative who has lived 20+ years between the west valley and north valley. He has seen 1 rattlesnake during this time while out hiking on a trail north of Phoenix.
bighatnohorse
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by bighatnohorse »

If the issue is "cold" then you would want to find warmer climates during the winter?
Florida Keys probably meets that requirement.
Arizona is desert and gets quite cold during a few days or weeks of winter. Warmest area is around Yuma, which, in my opinion is not a very nice area.

When you mention Scottsdale, it would imply "urban amenities" to me.
Is that what you want?

Nice climates usually infer popular areas and of course, higher prices for living arrangements.
Amenities, cost, climate: pick two.
Workaholic
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Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:55 am

Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by Workaholic »

summerof42 wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:03 am Would greatly appreciate your input and honest input. I'm looking to retire someplace warm since I do not tolerate the cold. I have friends in Florida (Tampa, Sarasota, etc) and ditto for Arizona (Scottsdale) and no need to worry about leaving family here.

I've gone over pros and cons for months and can't make a decision. I won't list the pros here, the con to AZ is cost of housing and I don't know how I could afford it. I was shocked to see the pricing. A really nice condo and town homes START in the $500k range and run into the millions. And then of course the snakes and scorpions. . . but if it was all that bad, why do so many enjoy living out there?

The con to Florida is off course the hurricanes and mosquitos.

So, I thought it's best to take my question to the good folks that live there. Thanks for your input!
If you aren't set on Scottsdale, you could find a nice home or condo in Chandler or Gilbert for under $500k. My parents snowbirded out to Scottsdale for many years back in the 2000's and while the area is very nice and great for retirees (excellent healthcare, many restaurants/activites), it IS very expensive. Pretty hard to find anything worthwhile under $500K today. There are nice areas of the Valley that are still relatively affordable.
smitcat
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by smitcat »

Dude2 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:35 am ^^^
I've never owned a pool, but I was shocked to see...
kiplinger wrote:It costs $177 a week, on average, to maintain a standard 14-by-28-foot pool.
Most folks around here (south Florida) have pretty modest little pools in their tiny yards. I thought if you got past the initial cost (say 20-30k), that it was smooth sailing from there. If it truly is that costly per week, talk about a non-Boglehead thing to have!
No where near that amount to own a pool.
heyyou
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Re: Attn: All Floridians & Arizonans! [Where to Retire in FL/AZ]

Post by heyyou »

In Arizona, the newer retirement communities are now even away further away from the city centers, since the supporting services (medical and shopping) will relocate to be near those new communities.

Tucson is a slightly better alternative to the worst heat and huge urban sprawl of Phoenix. If the Tucson airport is sufficient for your needs, Green Valley and Sierra Vista (both distant from Tucson) are at higher elevations with much better climates than even Tucson.

Altitude and temperature are inversely related in Arizona. Flagstaff, at almost 7000' elevation, has college students for nine months then Phoenix retirees renting the off-campus housing in the summers. Prescott, at 5300' elevation, was founded by an Army general choosing a moderate climate for a major army base during the late 1800s.

There are small towns in the edges of the high country north and east of Phoenix, but some residents there wear sidearms into stores while not wearing masks for Covid. Note how no place is perfect. As with many relationships, when the initial attraction has become familiar, you will notice far more of the imperfections.
I recall driving to the Grand Canyon during Easter once and sneezing like crazy when those cacti are pollenating
In the arid, mid-high country, the juniper trees (the size of your household Christmas trees) have spores that are allergens.
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