Replacement for a good pocket point-and-shoot camera?

[nisiprius]

I'm desolated. The Sony DSC TX-30 camera I bought in 2016 is starting to malfunction, and not only is that series of cameras no longer made, but the whole product category is now obsolete. The only way to get a good camera small enough to always be with you seems to be to buy a good smartphone.

I want to be able to take pictures about this good. The point here is not to humblebrag, but to show, accurately, the level of quality I am getting. How much do I need to spend, and what should I be looking for, to get a camera at least this good? I'm hoping I can spend less than $500 on something that was a top-of-the-line-two-years-ago and not go all the way to the bleeding edge.



I think it has to be Android because of apps I probably want to move, and because I want to be sure it will work with my TracFone account.

The DSC TX-30 has an 18.2 megapixel 1/2.3" sensor. Honestly I find the color and greyscale characteristics to be less than idea, but apart from that it is perfect. What makes it perfect for me is that it is small enough that I always have it with me, and it is amazingly able to capture a very good picture under almost any conditions. Other important characteristics are not much shutter lag. I'm not a Cartier-Bresson, but in Ye Olde Days I was pretty good at timing my shots and my current smartphone is awful--takes forever to autofocus. And I absolutely want a lens that is pretty wide-angle at its widest angle and has a good sweep panorama feature.

[atikovi]

A phone is for making calls and web surfing. Get another digital camera if you want to take good photos. Something like this Canon is all you need and will beat any phone camera. https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/cata ... tal-camera

[unclescrooge]

Pixel 3 is probably in your price range.

I've always used samsung phones and found their cameras excellent.

I just upgraded to the S10. The main camera is 12 megapixels.

It is probably sufficient for 90% if your camera needs.

[abracadabra11]

Another vote for the Pixel line. The 3 or 3a are a good starting point. Pixel 5 debut should give some more options or at least further reduce the prices of the previous generations.

[sycamore]

+1 to the Pixel phones from google. I like my Pixel 4a. Focus seems plenty fast for me. It takes good low light pictures.

Or if you’re willing to buy used, the 3a or 3 may take just as good a picture at a lower price — I don’t think google updated the lens or sensor for the 4a.

[Watty]

....but the whole product category is now obsolete.

"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated."
Mark Twain.

Canon sells refurbished camera with a one year Canon warranty.

https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/cata ... al-cameras

or new

https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/cata ... al-cameras

[02nz]

If you're willing to consider something that's roughly the same size except thicker, the Sony RX100 series has much larger 1-inch sensors that will provide dramatically better picture quality than your old Sony. There are a lot of models (Sony came out with a new one almost every year but kept the old ones around at lower prices, e.g., RX100 II is around $600).

The superior optics and much larger sensor of the RX100 will generally give better results than a phone camera, but there are some conditions under which the camera phone's software can help it "outsmart" a traditional camera.

[hunoraut]

Almost all phones have the similar wide FOV for their primary lens. A few of them have ultra-wide, but very low quality sensor associated with it.

The picture OP showed requires narrow FOV (i.e. "zoom"). The earlier pixels only had a single camera. Newer phones have zoom lenses.

For snappy experience, good color temp and auto exposure, and decent optics and sensor, basically you pick between the newest mid-high end Google Pixel, or Samsung galaxy phone.

(From my experience, iPhones are still the best for overall photo experience)

[sixtyforty]

I just saw a great review on this phone this morning on our local news. 12 Mega pixel camera, supposedly very good.


On sale for $299 at Best Buy

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/google-pix ... Id=6422517

[MathWizard]

I use pixel 3a XL , but my wife likes her iphone11 and uses it with tracfone, so an iphone is not out of the question.

Both phones take good pictures, although I think that the iphone 11 is better, particularly in low light.

[long_drink]

If you're willing to consider something that's roughly the same size except thicker, the Sony RX100 series has much larger 1-inch sensors that will provide dramatically better picture quality than your old Sony. There are a lot of models (Sony came out with a new one almost every year but kept the old ones around at lower prices, e.g., RX100 II is around $600).

The superior optics and much larger sensor of the RX100 will generally give better results than a phone camera, but there are some conditions under which the camera phone's software can help it "outsmart" a traditional camera.

Agreed completely.

I have a samsung note 9 and a RX-100 V. For the majority of cases, the note 9 works just fine, but the RX-100 does take better photos with more "true to life" coloring.

This is not my video, but it does provide some decent examples from each:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qSGPiIEkk8

[Watty]

A huge factor in deciding what to get depends on what you will be doing with the photos. Posting photos on facebook is one thing, but if you are going to be making large prints that is a lot different.

In switching to a cell phone from a camera be sure to understand the importance of the sensor size. You will likely be going to a smaller sensor size which is not good so that is a tradeoff but a cell phone may be set to do a lot more processing to help make up for that.

There is a wiki on this and image on it shows the relative sensor size.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format

One place where the sensor size make a lot of difference is in low light situations so if you expect take a lot of those be sure to consider that.

Here is an article that covers that.

https://www.techradar.com/news/can-the- ... ven-a-dslr

If you're willing to consider something that's roughly the same size except thicker, the Sony RX100 series has much larger 1-inch sensors that will provide dramatically better picture quality than your old Sony. There are a lot of models (Sony came out with a new one almost every year but kept the old ones around at lower prices, e.g., RX100 II is around $600).

+1

I have not owned one but a RX100 would be very competitive with many DSLRs. I have not followed them closely but I don't think that there have been huge changes with the different models so you can just buy an older version that fits your budget.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/buying ... om-cameras

[nisiprius]

Thanks to all who have replied, particularly atikovi, Watti, and several who suggested the Sony RX100 series. I was too pessimistic. At the moment new RX100s are out of my price range but maybe for my birthday. It is probably the right idea. atikovi's suggestion is interesting but that particular model doesn't do a sweep panorama, apparently.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that I want a dedicated camera, not a cell phone. The reason is that I was trying some experiments with my current (low-mid) cell phone, just to assess the image quality I actually have now. What I came away with is an intense appreciation for how important it is to me to have a camera with physical, mechanical controls, of different shapes, locations, and feels, scattered around the camera body in some more-or-less ergonomic fashion. In theory and logically, a touchscreen should provide all the same functionality, but... physical feel is important.

I think I have as much of an answer as I need right now.

[SmileyFace]

The image quality on high end smart phones is decent - I think what you will miss most in addition to physical controls is the optical zoom capability of dedicated point/shoot camera (high end smart phones have compensated slightly with multiple cameras but not the same...).

[FoolMeOnce]

Pixel phones are reputed to have the best cameras for phones. I'd look at the Pixel 4a ($349). The Pixel 5 and a 5g version of the 4a are coming out soon, but the improvements might not be worth the added costs.

[lostdog]

Pixel phones are reputed to have the best cameras for phones. I'd look at the Pixel 4a ($349). The Pixel 5 and a 5g version of the 4a are coming out soon, but the improvements might not be worth the added costs.

I have a PIxel 4 and it takes outstanding photos.

+1 for the Pixel 4a.

[brad.clarkston]

I have a Pixel 4XL the iPhone 11Pro has better hardware but the Pixel's post processing software is the best in the industry. Funny enough the best of the best is a jail-broken 11Pro running the Pixel software but that's not easy to setup and voids all kinds of Apple good will.

I tried using a Samsung S10+ but the camera was not comparable to the Pixel or iPhone let alone the horrid Samsung Android overlay.

I agree tho if you want good pictures get a real camera and learn how to use it.

[bearwithbear]

Nisiprius,

You have already checked out Hunt's Photo and Video?
They have been the source for our cameras.
If memory serves they have an October sale.

Best,
Bear

[niceguy7376]

Outside of Pixel, One Plus is another great phone with very good camera

[snailderby]

Thanks to all who have replied, particularly atikovi, Watti, and several who suggested the Sony RX100 series. I was too pessimistic. At the moment new RX100s are out of my price range but maybe for my birthday. It is probably the right idea. atikovi's suggestion is interesting but that particular model doesn't do a sweep panorama, apparently.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that I want a dedicated camera, not a cell phone. The reason is that I was trying some experiments with my current (low-mid) cell phone, just to assess the image quality I actually have now. What I came away with is an intense appreciation for how important it is to me to have a camera with physical, mechanical controls, of different shapes, locations, and feels, scattered around the camera body in some more-or-less ergonomic fashion. In theory and logically, a touchscreen should provide all the same functionality, but... physical feel is important.

I think I have as much of an answer as I need right now.

What about a Canon Powershot G7 X II? It also has a good review from DPReview, the same sized 1" sensor as the Sony RX100, and a faster/brighter lens than the RX100. You buy one (new or refurbished) for $500 to $600.

[jjface]

Pixel 4a if you want a camera phone ((or the 5 / 4a 5g launching tomorrow if you want to add an ultra wide lens too)

Yes as others have said a rx100 would be a good buy. The mark 1 is still a decent camera (used to be able to still get them new). No need to go out and get the $1000+ one. Similarly canon has the g9x mark ii and g7x mark ii lines and panasonic the zs200 or the lx10.

[ensign_lee]

You can get a Sumsung Galaxy S10 plus for under $500 and have comparable pictures imo

[FrugalInvestor]

The new and soon to be released Pixel 5 will be a bit above your target price but it will also likely be supported longer than an older model. Pixels are known for having some of the best cameras....and are very nice phones to boot!

[surfstar]

Pixel 4a

It will be my next phone as soon as a black friday type deal occurs ($250ish).

I've owned a Sony RX100 and a couple of its competitors in the large(r) sensor P&S type cameras. Always was disappointed. The results really aren't that much better than a small sensor camera - no high ISO nerding out needed; most users don't need camera's for that situation. In good light (or not with Google's Night Sight) a modern phone does very well. The 4a or similar (iPhone SE) will likely outdo a P&S camera thanks to software.

The biggest thing a phone can't do is zoom. I have a pocket zoom that works great for wildlife shots. Not dSLR quality, but fine for bird ID/etc.

[anoop]

This is the website considered tops for rating phone cameras.
https://www.dxomark.com/category/mobile-reviews/

Let us know what you end up with.

[TallBoy29er]

I'll tell ya, that shot you posted is Nice! Not sure any phone can match that.

I bought a OnePlus 7t smartphone last year, it is an Android device. I have Verizon for service. I have been pleased with the camera, much better than my first generation Pixel. I have not used the Pixel 3 to compare.

It has 3 cameras, the main being 48 mp, the wide is 16, and the zoom is 12, believe. I saw T Mobile pricing on the OnePlus website was $449. A year ago I paid a bit over $600 if I recall correctly.

Edited to add: I found this review comparing the Pixel 4 v the OnePlus 7t. For cameras, the Pixel 4 won, hands down.
https://www.tomsguide.com/face-off/pixe ... oneplus-7t

[nisiprius]

I updated the thread title because I've decided: no smartphone for me if I can get a suitable dedicated camera, and it's beginning to look as if I can, after all. "Suitable" means collapsible lens, small enough to be "always" with me. I want physical controls that look, feel, and act differently from each other, no touchscreen stuff. Somehow I need to do a "trial fit" of a Sony RX100.

[Lee_WSP]

I updated the thread title because I've decided: no smartphone for me if I can get a suitable dedicated camera, and it's beginning to look as if I can, after all. "Suitable" means collapsible lens, small enough to be "always" with me. I want physical controls that look, feel, and act differently from each other, no touchscreen stuff. Somehow I need to do a "trial fit" of a Sony RX100.

https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/sony-c ... t-rx100-vi

A point and shoot is a weird size. Not nearly as tinkerable as an interchangeable lens camera, but not quite as useful and pocketable as a smartphone (also it's another piece of gear you have to carry around). Personally I don't see the point, but they still make them. I would personally prefer to step up to a small mirrorless camera if size was the issue. Something from Fuji perhaps. Sony is kind of expensive, IMO. So, other than the link to the rental, I'm not really answering the question you asked, so sorry about that.

[Sandtrap]

I'm desolated. The Sony DSC TX-30 camera I bought in 2016 is starting to malfunction, and not only is that series of cameras no longer made, but the whole product category is now obsolete. The only way to get a good camera small enough to always be with you seems to be to buy a good smartphone.

I want to be able to take pictures about this good. The point here is not to humblebrag, but to show, accurately, the level of quality I am getting. How much do I need to spend, and what should I be looking for, to get a camera at least this good? I'm hoping I can spend less than $500 on something that was a top-of-the-line-two-years-ago and not go all the way to the bleeding edge.



I think it has to be Android because of apps I probably want to move, and because I want to be sure it will work with my TracFone account.

The DSC TX-30 has an 18.2 megapixel 1/2.3" sensor. Honestly I find the color and greyscale characteristics to be less than idea, but apart from that it is perfect. What makes it perfect for me is that it is small enough that I always have it with me, and it is amazingly able to capture a very good picture under almost any conditions. Other important characteristics are not much shutter lag. I'm not a Cartier-Bresson, but in Ye Olde Days I was pretty good at timing my shots and my current smartphone is awful--takes forever to autofocus. And I absolutely want a lens that is pretty wide-angle at its widest angle and has a good sweep panorama feature.

Nice pic.
Thanks!

Although pricier
The Sony DSC rx100 type series with a 1" sensor if competent.

j

[iamlucky13]

The lighting in that picture was good, which is part of why it turned out well. There is enough direct sunlight to reveal texture and aid the sense of depth, but it is not so intense as to be harsh. The resolution actually isn't remarkable, but you only see that at larger than normal viewing size. Megapixels are a number you should basically ignore when shopping for a camera these days because most people will seldom be viewing at a size that it matters, and the sensors often out-resolve the lenses anyways.

A good smartphone can definitely accomplish a comparable picture quality wise.

The main thing it can't do is zoom (with a few thicker models being exceptions), although higher end smartphones are now frequently coming with multiple cameras that have different fixed focal lengths - usually a wide angle (in the range of 24-35mm equivalent), an ultra wide (14-20mm equivalent), and sometimes also a normal (50-85mm equivalent). In this way, you get multiple discrete optical focal lengths, with digital zoom in between.

I mention this in part because the perspective of the example photo looks like an example that was probably frame with a moderate amount of zoom.

As a pre-emptive response to a common comment on zooming: "zooming with your feet" changes the perspective and is not really a replacement for having different focal lengths at your disposal. Besides, sometimes it is simply not possible to zoom with your feet.

There's more that can be said about the technical capabilities of smartphone cameras vs. dedicated cameras, but I don't get the sense that it will deal with considerations you are concerned about.

[hunoraut]

I updated the thread title because I've decided: no smartphone for me if I can get a suitable dedicated camera, and it's beginning to look as if I can, after all. "Suitable" means collapsible lens, small enough to be "always" with me. I want physical controls that look, feel, and act differently from each other, no touchscreen stuff. Somehow I need to do a "trial fit" of a Sony RX100.

The RX100 is very good for a point and snap experiencing, but I didn't find satisfying to use. Panasonic LX100 has more satisfying heft and discrete physical controls along with permanent viewfinder. Lens zoom is collapsible, but not flush to the body like the RX100.

[Rob5TCP]

The Sony RX100 was my first choice, but the model I wanted was almost $800.
I went with the Canon GX9 which uses the 1" Sony sensor. Worth a look and almost
30-35% less than the newer RX100 models.

Note it does not shoot 4k video, if that is an issue.

[quantAndHold]

The one, holy grail, point and click camera that I had and always regretted selling was a Nikon Coolpix A. APS-C sized sensor. Actually, the guts of a mid range DSLR in a compact body. Fabulous pictures. More satisfying to use than the RX100, which was an excellent camera, but never all that fun to use. Coolpix A’s are rare as hen’s teeth, though, and probably not all that cheap if you find one.

So yeah, if you want an actual camera, something in the RX100 series is several steps above what you had.

[oldcomputerguy]

Not to hijack the thread, but since nobody else seems to have asked, I will. Where was this taken? It's a beautiful scene!

[fourwheelcycle]

This is a true pocket size camera. It should do what you want to do for under $500.

https://www.amazon.com/Canon-PowerShot- ... 136&sr=8-1

[wanderer]

Looking around you may be able to find an older model RX100 used or refurbished. Models (older) ii or iii are -/+ 500 respectively.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DM8R866?ta ... th=1&psc=1

[tibbitts]

I've actually tried a P&S without a viewfinder, and while it's not horrible, I can now confidently say that it's not worth it. Go with a phone or get a camera with a viewfinder.

You need a relatively recent RX to get a viewfinder - the earlier ones didn't have them.

[Peculiar_Investor]

I'm desolated. The Sony DSC TX-30 camera I bought in 2016 is starting to malfunction, and not only is that series of cameras no longer made, but the whole product category is now obsolete. The only way to get a good camera small enough to always be with you seems to be to buy a good smartphone.

Check out https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/buyi ... ot-cameras for ideas. We have a Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS40 that has served us very well as a lightweight travel camera. It has very good optical zoom and takes better landscape photos that our iPhones, but not as good as my Canon 77D DSLR.

[nisiprius]

Not to hijack the thread, but since nobody else seems to have asked, I will. Where was this taken? It's a beautiful scene!

Badlands National Park.

[rockstar]

At your price point, most smart phone cameras are good alternatives. Otherwise, you get into the more expensive Sony point and shoot cameras.

[Watty]

Not to hijack the thread, but since nobody else seems to have asked, I will. Where was this taken? It's a beautiful scene!

Badlands National Park.

It is a small world too. This is a photo that I took for a class where I needed a square photo.

[Peculiar_Investor]

Previous topic viewtopic.php?f=11&t=263494 that discusses alternatives.

[nisiprius]

...It is a small world too. This is a photo that I took for a class where I needed a square photo...

I was going to say that mine was nothing special, it was taken right from the loop road. Except that the variety of unbelievable kinds of landscape you can see, right from the loop road is sensational.

[snailderby]

Not to hijack the thread, but since nobody else seems to have asked, I will. Where was this taken? It's a beautiful scene!

Badlands National Park.

It is a small world too. This is a photo that I took for a class where I needed a square photo.

Beautiful!

[RetiredAL]

I'm desolated. The Sony DSC TX-30 camera I bought in 2016 is starting to malfunction, and not only is that series of cameras no longer made, but the whole product category is now obsolete. The only way to get a good camera small enough to always be with you seems to be to buy a good smartphone.

Although it's thicker because it has a mechanical zoom lens, I have been quite happy with my Panasonic DMC-ZS60 camera. It too has the 1/2.3 sensor. It easily fits in a shirt pocket.

[Watty]

...It is a small world too. This is a photo that I took for a class where I needed a square photo...

I was going to say that mine was nothing special, it was taken right from the loop road. Except that the variety of unbelievable kinds of landscape you can see, right from the loop road is sensational.

I pretty much stayed on the road too. When I walked off the road a little bit for the most part you were so low that there was not much of a view unless you were walking out to a scenic point but most of those were only a couple of hundred yards from the parking lot.

[bertilak]

Here is a recent roundup in all price ranges. https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-po ... ot-cameras

For the price range you are looking at I can add that I have been satisfied with Cannon point and shoot, although the one I have now is hopelessly outdated, to the point where my Galaxy S9 out does it in features and picture quality.

I'm guessing that WiFi is now pretty standard.

[climber2020]

One option that I don't think has been mentioned is a Ricoh GR. You can get a used one (version 1 or 2) from KEH or B&H Photo for under $500 when they're available. There's some shutter lag in the dark, and the lens doesn't zoom, but the image quality and ergonomics are excellent.

The one, holy grail, point and click camera that I had and always regretted selling was a Nikon Coolpix A. APS-C sized sensor. Actually, the guts of a mid range DSLR in a compact body. Fabulous pictures. More satisfying to use than the RX100, which was an excellent camera, but never all that fun to use. Coolpix A’s are rare as hen’s teeth, though, and probably not all that cheap if you find one.

I agree with this. I own a Coolpix A, and it's a great camera. Larger and heavier than the Ricoh GR, but it's more or less the same thing. You can still find them on eBay for around $400 to $500.

[tibbitts]

Getting back to the original point, how about a lightly used DSC TX-30?

[nisiprius]

Getting back to the original point, how about a lightly used DSC TX-30?

It's certainly an idea, but since the actual problem was something mechanical wearing out, I'm reluctant to go that route. (The shutter button has a detent halfway down. Pushing it halfway causes it to focus and expose based on where it is pointed, and then allows you to lock and hold that setting while you point it somewhere else. I use that more often than I had expected. Something in the detent mechanism seems to have failed and it is no longer possible to push halfway and then turn while holding the setting).