Used Car issues Ohio

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captpete
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Used Car issues Ohio

Post by captpete »

Good day everyone,

Anyone have experience dealing with a used car dealership after they sold you a car that immediately showed issues?

My brother bought a used Honda Pilot from a used car lot that gets mixed reviews on line but has a A+ with BBB. He is going on vacation with wife mom and 3 kids tomorrow and bought this vehicle yesterday.

Today a lot of lights are coming on on the dash. Check engine light, 4x4 light and others. He is really disappointed in himself for not taking it to a shop first and for buying it under pressure but here he is.

There is no warranty but and I can’t find anything online for consumer protections in Ohio. It seems Ohio protects the dealers.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Pete
zie
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by zie »

Most used car places that want to also be in business next year, will happily hook it up to their computer and find out what's wrong. They might even fix it if it's not very expensive. But they probably won't do much more than that. It's certainly worth stopping into the dealer and asking the question.

I don't know what the laws in Ohio are like, but I doubt they are in your BIL's favour.
hicabob
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by hicabob »

Sounds like the dealer disconnected the battery for a couple minutes to turn the dash lights off. Easy but sleazy. A scan would have shown the errors.
Topic Author
captpete
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by captpete »

Yeah, my brother is really kicking himself here. He knew better than this.
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cheese_breath
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by cheese_breath »

From the Ohio Attorney General office...

4/17/2017
For most consumers, cars are one of life’s biggest expenses. Buying a car, maintaining it, and repairing it can involve many different costs and decisions. Under Ohio law, consumers do not have a general right to cancel the purchase of a vehicle; therefore, it is important to understand your rights before buying a car.

Buying a car “as is”- If a used car is sold “as is,” it is not protected by a warranty. Buying a used car “as is” means the consumer is responsible to pay for any problems that occur after the purchase is made. Generally, consumers do not have a right to cancel or return a vehicle after they buy it, so be sure to thoroughly research your options before buying or leasing a new or used car.

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/Med ... Automobile

Given there's no warranty, your brother bought the car "as is". Whether the sales person told him that, I don't know.

Note the date, 2017. There are lots of links to later postings on the left side of the page, but I leave it to OP to review them.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.
Topic Author
captpete
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by captpete »

Thanks for the link.
tibbitts
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by tibbitts »

I would rent a car for the vacation and deal with the Pilot after that.

It is possible for a problem to coincidentally appear, and I've had that happen with a car I sold: it literally fell apart within a few miles after I sold it, but had given zero indications of problems before that.
Dockside_Dreaming
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by Dockside_Dreaming »

My son bought his first car (used) with cash 2.5 weeks ago. The dealer was 90 minutes from our house. We only made it 20 miles before the transmission gave out. It was late Saturday night at this point so we drove home in my truck. We purchased as is. Yesterday the transmission shop said it will be 5 weeks before they can get the parts in to fix it. Parts to repair cars are in short supply. So it will be 2 months after buying the car that he will be able to drive it.

If the dealer says they will fix, they may just do a partial fix. A friend of mine is going through a nightmare worse than mine that includes a partial repair and many things wrong with a used 2016 low mileage car. Good luck!!
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Sandtrap
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by Sandtrap »

DW and I once bought a used car that turned into a lemon within 30 minutes of driving it off the lot. We turned around and drove it back, chugged it into the driveway and made a stink about it. There's a certain point of "sold as is" that DW and I found unacceptable in no uncertain terms. We spoke to the boss and the bosses boss until they gave us all of our money back and voided the sale. That was in our "early days". Huge lesson!

Buyer Beware.
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valleyrock
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by valleyrock »

At this stage, yes, drive it right back over there and talk to the boss and the boss's boss, politely, and ask for your money back. There's a chance they'll do the right thing. If you don't ask, they obviously will not.

Then rent a car and go on vacation and figure it out later.
atikovi
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by atikovi »

captpete wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:10 pm Today a lot of lights are coming on on the dash. Check engine light, 4x4 light and others. He is really disappointed in himself for not taking it to a shop first and for buying it under pressure but here he is.
What year? How many miles? How much? Check engine light is often a minor issue like gas cap loose or a bad sensor. 4x4 light could be a sensor too but I assume you don't need 4wd right now. What are the others? Buy a $50 scan tool to read the codes and decide if it can wait. As long as the oil light isn't on and temperature gauge doesn't read high you should be able to make the trip. Dealers often buy cars at auction, have them shipped and then put them on the lot. They may not have driven it themselves any more than your test drive.
bob60014
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by bob60014 »

atikovi wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:08 pm ......Check engine light is often a minor issue like gas cap loose or a bad sensor. 4x4 light could be a sensor too but I assume you don't need 4wd right now. What are the others? Buy a $50 scan tool to read the codes and decide if it can wait......
No need to buy a scanner, O'reillys, Autozone and other will do a scan free.

The problem the OPs brother will have is the delay of getting the vehicle back to the selling dealer. He should have taken it back immediately and discussed a resolution. Leaving on a trip the day after for a week, two or however long, dimishes any leverage, however limited, he may have had.
Chuck107
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by Chuck107 »

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Ramjet
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by Ramjet »

Purchase a CarFax or other vehicle history report. See if there is anything obvious that should have been disclosed at the time of purchase that wasn't. This may give you some leverage or pushback with the dealer to take the car back
DH0
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by DH0 »

Chuck107 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:16 am If it was purchased "AS IS" well it means just that.
Your brother will be at the mercy of the dealership for any resolution.
Regardless of the contract, if it happened to me I would make the dealers life a living hell. Assume an honest mistake and be polite for starters, but if you feel you have been deliberately sleazed, escalate to the boss and start filing complaints. At a certain point it is no longer about the money. If someone screws you over it's time to publicly shame them...they deserve to suffer the consequences.
Chuck107
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by Chuck107 »

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DH0
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by DH0 »

You're right, it would make me feel better. And I would probably get the car returned. And if I didn't, I would make the dealer wish he or she had taken it back.

A contract is no excuse for deceit. By upping the ante a little bit with some public shaming (within your legal rights) you make it worth their while to cooperate.
atikovi
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by atikovi »

DH0 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:27 am A contract is no excuse for deceit.
If the issues mentioned didn't show up on the test drive, what makes you think the dealer even knew about them?
DH0
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by DH0 »

atikovi wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:29 am
DH0 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:27 am A contract is no excuse for deceit.
If the issues mentioned didn't show up on the test drive, what makes you think the dealer even knew about them?
Like I said, come in with best intentions. Perhaps an honest mistake. But the OPs post made it sound like a check engine light had been reset which is basically the oldest trick in the book of the used car dealer arsenal apart from an odometer rollback. There are lots of predators out there. If you don't stand up for yourself you will be eaten.
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StevieG72
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by StevieG72 »

Yikes!

I am in the market for a car for the kiddo. I am leaning towards low enough miles to have factory powertrain warranty remaining. (< 60,000 miles)
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atikovi
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by atikovi »

DH0 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:42 am basically the oldest trick in the book of the used car dealer arsenal apart from an odometer rollback.
Now a days even that has mostly stopped what with history reports and electronic odometers. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it's much harder to do AND get away with on anything made in the last 20 years.
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bottlecap
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by bottlecap »

If your brother takes it to a mechanic, the mechanic may be able to pull up the code history. I can recall exactly but disconnecting the battery may not erase those.

"As is" is fine, but fraud is not. If something throws 3 codes in 1 day after purchase, that's strong circumstantial evidence of fraud. The dealer appears to have hidden facts material to the transaction.

Despite purchasing "as is" the dealer will likely undo the transaction under the circumstances if your brother raises enough of a stink. If I was dealer, I would not want to fight this one in court.

Good luck,

JT
DH0
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by DH0 »

atikovi wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:48 am
DH0 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:42 am basically the oldest trick in the book of the used car dealer arsenal apart from an odometer rollback.
Now a days even that has mostly stopped what with history reports and electronic odometers. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it's much harder to do AND get away with on anything made in the last 20 years.
Absolutely true. Odometer rollbacks are now big time illegal and hard to do.
tibbitts
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by tibbitts »

StevieG72 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:45 am Yikes!

I am in the market for a car for the kiddo. I am leaning towards low enough miles to have factory powertrain warranty remaining. (< 60,000 miles)
I don't understand your position because many expensive items - probably the vast majority that fail - aren't covered by a powertrain warranty. I can see wanting a fair amount of bumper-to-bumper warranty (and yes, there are still exclusions, but still...) remaining.
Mr.BB
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by Mr.BB »

Better business bureau ratings used to really mean something not anymore.
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Chuck107
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by Chuck107 »

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Last edited by Chuck107 on Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Alas, I find moderation of this forum too restrictive for my tastes, farewell.
tibbitts
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by tibbitts »

atikovi wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:29 am
DH0 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:27 am A contract is no excuse for deceit.
If the issues mentioned didn't show up on the test drive, what makes you think the dealer even knew about them?
This was exactly my experience selling my car, and why I probably won't sell a car privately again. Although this was a dealer purchasing the car in this case (vs. other cars I had sold privately), and the dealer didn't pursue the matter, they were absolutely convinced that I knew about the problem that showed up after driving the car for just a few miles. I've never had such a significant mechanical failure occur completely without warning, but that's what happened.
GuyInFL
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by GuyInFL »

StevieG72 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:45 am Yikes!

I am in the market for a car for the kiddo. I am leaning towards low enough miles to have factory powertrain warranty remaining. (< 60,000 miles)
Get it inspected by a mechanic of your choosing before purchasing the car. Also, Carvana gives you seven days to return the car for virtually any reason.

https://clark.com/cars/how-buy-used-car/
Chuck107
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by Chuck107 »

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atikovi
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by atikovi »

Chuck107 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:15 am Just as a chance... the OP should check to see if the vehicle has an extended waranty on it by the original owner.
We still don't know if this is a $2,500 2005 or a $25,000 2015.
Chuck107
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by Chuck107 »

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Watty
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by Watty »

One thing to check on is if the state he is in has any legal requirements that a car has to pass an emission test in order to be sold.
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BogleFanGal
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by BogleFanGal »

Mr.BB wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:59 am Better business bureau ratings used to really mean something not anymore.
BBB is a total joke - zero credibility. I'm really not sure what function they serve in the 21st century - just a scheme to collect membership fees from businesses, I guess.

As long as the business responds back to a formal complaint, they can say basically anything, do nothing to help and the BBB will still close out the complaint, giving the impression that it was resolved for the consumer. They don't intervene, try to help or keep a case open to show the business was uncooperative.

Just one example: a company outright lied to me in their response, denying something that I had written documentation for that they now refused to honor. The business responded by dismissing my concerns and closing with an inane "we look forward to serving you again", offered no help at all. The BBB immediately marked case as "closed" just because they answered - I didn't have any chance to accept, not accept the response, protest, appeal, etc.
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cheese_breath
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by cheese_breath »

BogleFanGal wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:42 am
Mr.BB wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:59 am Better business bureau ratings used to really mean something not anymore.
As long as the business responds back to a formal complaint, they can say basically anything, do nothing to help and the BBB will still close out the complaint, giving the impression that it was resolved for the consumer. They don't intervene, try to help or keep a case open to show the business was uncooperative....
That happened to me many, many years ago. I responded to their case closed letter, and they ignored my response.
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delamer
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by delamer »

StevieG72 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:45 am Yikes!

I am in the market for a car for the kiddo. I am leaning towards low enough miles to have factory powertrain warranty remaining. (< 60,000 miles)
Try CarMax. They have a 5-day return.

Check their price against edmunds.com and/or kbb.com for reasonableness.
Broken Man 1999
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

It seems a bit premature to start sharpening pitchforks and rounding up torches. Many operations are checked every time the vehicle is cranked.

It should be very easy to get the codes checked out free.

Off topic: I just had a positive experience with BBB.

My local fish wrapper started printing only twice a week earlier in the year. The other days were e-papers. I probably would have been OK had they extended my subscription to the paper (7 days a week) once their issues were over. Nope! Then, to add insult to injury, they wanted me to renew at a much increased rate, even though the twice a week deliveries would continue.

So, I opened a complaint with our BBB, and the newspaper refunded my subscription, prorated. And, since DW had only been receiving a physical paper twice a week, she no longer felt we needed to keep the subscription anyway. So, I have lopped off a subscription I didn't really want in the first place.

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Rdytoretire
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by Rdytoretire »

There is a good chance that there is only a minor issue with the vehicle. You really don't know until it is checked out. Something as simple as being low on brake fluid can set off numerous warning lights. Brake fluid level is the first thing I would check.

FWIW. My experience with BBB was that they are a waste of time.
rgs92
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Re: Used Car issues Ohio

Post by rgs92 »

I always hear that CPO cars are not worth it (Certified Pre-Owned). FWIW, I bought 2 of these from higher-end dealers and the few repairs I had were fixed for free with no issues and I had the first car for several years and the other is going strong. So just from my experience, that's how I buy any cars. I do check to get a good price for the mileage also.

I've heard stories of people getting CPO cars with some damage that wasn't disclosed, but it never happened to me, and I would not like it (because of future resale valuation), but to me the important thing is that the car works.

And I also always buy the long manufacturers extended warranty (against all recommendations not to that I read about). Lexus gives an 8 year extended warranty with the start date being the time you buy the car. It costs a few thousand dollars. It is actually 3 years longer than the new car warranty, and it seems to cover the same things mostly. [This is unique to Lexus to my understanding, but not sure.]

To me, this is a better situation than buying a new car even if the price were the same, so the lower price and the better warranty is doubly good.

I don't think I'd buy a car off a used car lot unless I knew enough to fix cars myself.
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