New Computer Setup for Photoshop

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Hubris
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New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by Hubris »

Hi BH Tech Experts,
I’m looking for your input about specs for a replacement computer for my old desktop, and would like one set up to optimize performance of Photoshop and Lightroom. My preference is for PC (not Mac/Apple) and I definitely don’t want to build or modify the computer myself. I’m somewhat intimidated/overwhelmed by the research process thus far.

My research thus far suggests these specs as optimal: 3+ GHz CPU, 16-32 GB RAM, DVD-RW Optical Drive, 512GB SSD (+/- 1TB HDD also), GPU (GeForce?)...

I’m thinking that once the specs are nailed down, I can shop Lenovo/Dell/HP and Costco; and get a quote for a custom build by the local computer shop.

Will also need a new monitor so appreciate any feedback about that also.
Thanks in advance for what I’m sure will be useful feedback.
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vineviz
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by vineviz »

For the processor, any modern Intel processor with 6 or more cores is likely adequate. I’d probably choose an 8-core i7, but a 10 core i9 is only a little more money and probably worth it.

16GB of RAM is probably plenty, IMHO, but upgrading later is easy.

The GPU probably isn’t important: any GPU that comes with a machine you are considering will me more than good enough. Don’t pay more for this.

512GB SSD boot drive is fine. You’ll probably want external drives for storage anyway, but a 2nd internal drive that’s a 7200 rpm HDD can be handy for temporary work space.

I can’t imagine much use for an optical drive, unless you also do wedding videos or something. In that case a BluRay burner might be handy.

Something like one of these Dell XPS Special Edition machines is probably the kind of thing I’d look for:

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/desktop ... se-desktop
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rob
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by rob »

vineviz wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:32 pm The GPU probably isn’t important: any GPU that comes with a machine you are considering will me more than good enough. Don’t pay more for this.
Could not disagree more... A lot of the LR & PS processing is offloaded to the GPU....

I suggest having a spare SSD for the cache (different from the core OS) and an array for the images themselves (or a larger spinning disk/s).
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vineviz
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by vineviz »

rob wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:48 pm
vineviz wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:32 pm The GPU probably isn’t important: any GPU that comes with a machine you are considering will me more than good enough. Don’t pay more for this.
Could not disagree more... A lot of the LR & PS processing is offloaded to the GPU....
That's true, but GPU acceleration in Photoshop is supported on any card that is compliant with OpenCL v1.1 or later (and OpenCL v1.1 came out in 2010, so ....). The point I was trying to make is that any machine built with a new i7 or i9 processor is probably shipping with an adequate-for-Photoshop GPU, since most other apps that computer buyers might use (e.g. any video game, After Effects, Adobe Premiere, etc.) will need a better GPU than Photoshop needs.

According to testing by Puget Systems, the NVDIA GeForce 16 series and 20 series cards have a slight edge in Photoshop over the current Radeon cards but it's a small difference for a handful or two of effects.
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Target2019
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by Target2019 »

A configuration item for Photoshop is the scratch disk. It is explained at the link below very well. It might be worth a read before ordering the hardware. Of course everything eventually gets down to performance, but the cost of components can get significant. So if you're just starting out it might not make sense to have a high budget.
https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using ... ences.html
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by atikovi »

Hubris wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:11 pmMy preference is for PC (not Mac/Apple) and I definitely don’t want to build or modify the computer myself.
Isn't a Mac/Apple also a personal computer? As for what to buy, my last three computers I bought on Ebay as one or two year old corporate Dells which have a 3 year warranty. About a third the cost of new with nearly the same level of tech.
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AAA
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by AAA »

You specified PS and Lightroom but not what your usage will be. Occasionally processing a number of personal photos vs. having to process hundreds of photos a day for work would make a big difference in determining what kind of computer to get.
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Hubris
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by Hubris »

Thanks everyone, so far. No real budget limitations but of course don’t want to spend $ that I don’t have to. The machine will be kept for 5-10 yrs most likely based on current patterns. In terms of usage, probably serious hobbyist if that helps...tens or low hundreds of images per month.

Rob & Target2019...not surehow I would specify those things in placing an order, can you provide guidance on terminology for ordering?
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by Sandtrap »

Hubris wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:11 pm Hi BH Tech Experts,
I’m looking for your input about specs for a replacement computer for my old desktop, and would like one set up to optimize performance of Photoshop and Lightroom. My preference is for PC (not Mac/Apple) and I definitely don’t want to build or modify the computer myself. I’m somewhat intimidated/overwhelmed by the research process thus far.

My research thus far suggests these specs as optimal: 3+ GHz CPU, 16-32 GB RAM, DVD-RW Optical Drive, 512GB SSD (+/- 1TB HDD also), GPU (GeForce?)...

I’m thinking that once the specs are nailed down, I can shop Lenovo/Dell/HP and Costco; and get a quote for a custom build by the local computer shop.

Will also need a new monitor so appreciate any feedback about that also.
Thanks in advance for what I’m sure will be useful feedback.
DW and I have computers in our offices, also another to shoot tethered in the photo studio, set up for pro and commercial level and bulk photo post processing from raw to tiff to finish.

**Here's an overview of what we have and use. Your needs may be less so downsize accordingly per use and budget:

Programs are full versions of Photoshop, Lightroom, Capture One, and much more. Pen tablets for editing.
Also, pro level flatbed photo scanners for photo restoration work, etc.
Outputs also are to, up to 14 inch wide photo printers though most of our work goes to the labs or online photo portfolios, Getty, etc.

The computers are the fastest we could get with full tower styles for easy access and drive swaps.
They were always custom built then modified by us over time. Usually from Tiger Direct in the past, then another that I can't remember.

Ram/Dram, etc, memory is the highest we can stuff into the computer per slots and chip size.

Video cards made to do photo processing a must. *Look this up. Match the video card to the photo monitors.

Photo quality "neutral" monitors, large. *Research this. The best monitors for home or gaming is not necessarily for photo editing.

There are 4 solid state drives in each computer with the fastest drive as the root/boot drive with exterior docking drives as well for backup and off site storage. Raw files are huge. (Dedicated Scratch Disc as commented earlier, a must)

Internet up and down speeds are the fastest bundle provided by our provider for bulk photo tiff uploads, etc.

So far, it's worked well for us over the past 20 years as we've tried to keep up with increasing software demands and upgrade accordingly. The newer pro post processing programs are just enormous, also the many plug ins for Photoshop, Capture One, etc.

Our photo equip. is all Canon full frame. Location and studio shoots in raw, edited in raw and tiff, output to tiff/jpeg depending on demand/use. So, again, files are huge, software demands high. Marginal computers will bog and lock during processing. Especially in Photoshop is using too many layers, or in Capture One since it's a raw editor.

Whether as a hobby or paid or pro, much depends on your quality expectations and end use. If only for emailing to others and viewing on a computer, then it's tough to discern resolution quality beyond a certain point. But, if sent out to labs for large blowups, or commercial demands, then the highest quality without compromise is expected, at 1x1 resolution or better when zoomed in is the norm. (National Geographic, Getty, etc).
But, it's also a rewarding hobby to get the best image that one can get regardless of end use.

*And, there's a difference in need if you are using a cell phone to take pictures, a "point and shoot" that outputs jpeg, a smaller sensor (but still nice) Sony DSC 100 with a 1" sensor, or a Sony, Canon, or Nikon full frame camera (cheaper ef-s lens or "L" pro lenses?), or a Medium Format Megabuck Hasslebland.

:?: What camera are you using or plan to use?

j :happy
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Last edited by Sandtrap on Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Watty
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by Watty »

Hubris wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:11 pm 512GB SSD (+/- 1TB HDD also)
The price on solid state drives have come down so much it would only cost a little bit more to go with 1TB solid state drives both the system drive and the data drive.

I don't use lightroom so I don't know if it would work for you but I keep my photos organized with a folder for each year and I keep the current year on my internal system drive and the photos from past years is on an external drive. Several months into a new year I will move the prior years photos to the external drive. That makes my backups go quicker since I only need to make frequent backups of the main drive since information on the external drive does not change that often.

Also pay a lot of attention to what type of USB ports you have and that you have plenty of them. I am not sure if newer versions of USB ports exist but the PC I bought a few years ago has both USB 2 ports and the much faster USB 3 ports. I don't know why they used any of the USB 2 ports unless it was to just to save a bit of money.

You will also want a good surge protector or a UPS. There was a thread on these in the last week or two that you can look up.

You should also plan on getting a monitor calibration tool. I am not sure what is currently on the market but I have a basic Spyder one that I got a few years ago.

Also figure out what backup strategy you will use. There are lots of way to do that. Mine is pretty basic, I just have two external drives for backups that I alternate and I keep one at my sons house just in case my house burns down. That is not perfect but I make sure that I rotate the backup drives several times a year and after I upload photos from a big trip.

I don't format my SD cards until I have an offsite backup of the photos.

Be sure that your backup plan will allow you to recover a file that you accidentally delete. Things like mirrored drives or some online backup options may have trouble with that.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by Sandtrap »

Watty wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:29 pm
Hubris wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:11 pm 512GB SSD (+/- 1TB HDD also)
The price on solid state drives have come down so much it would only cost a little bit more to go with 1TB solid state drives both the system drive and the data drive.

I don't use lightroom so I don't know if it would work for you but I keep my photos organized with a folder for each year and I keep the current year on my internal system drive and the photos from past years is on an external drive. Several months into a new year I will move the prior years photos to the external drive. That makes my backups go quicker since I only need to make frequent backups of the main drive since information on the external drive does not change that often.

Also pay a lot of attention to what type of USB ports you have and that you have plenty of them. I am not sure if newer versions of USB ports exist but the PC I bought a few years ago has both USB 2 ports and the much faster USB 3 ports. I don't know why they used any of the USB 2 ports unless it was to just to save a bit of money.

You will also want a good surge protector or a UPS. There was a thread on these in the last week or two that you can look up.

You should also plan on getting a monitor calibration tool. I am not sure what is currently on the market but I have a basic Spyder one that I got a few years ago.

Also figure out what backup strategy you will use. There are lots of way to do that. Mine is pretty basic, I just have two external drives for backups that I alternate and I keep one at my sons house just in case my house burns down. That is not perfect but I make sure that I rotate the backup drives several times a year and after I upload photos from a big trip.

I don't format my SD cards until I have an offsite backup of the photos.

Be sure that your backup plan will allow you to recover a file that you accidentally delete. Things like mirrored drives or some online backup options may have trouble with that.
+1
Terrific points.

Spyder monitor calibration tool a must. (You want the monitor to display a pure, not enhanced image).
Although, the last 2 monitors we bought had some kind of internal calibration that did what the Spyder Tool does. Not sure how.

j
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robphoto
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by robphoto »

I am a photographer and use Photoshop constantly.

The suggestions you've gotten are good. You'll love running the operating system on the SSD (you could also use part of it for the Photoshop scratch disk).
It's nice to store your working image files on an SSD also, but if money is tight you could get a big spinning hard drive for that.

I don't think anyone had mentioned getting something to calibrate your monitor. (Well, now I see someone did above) If you want predictable results in Photoshop, getting a good monitor and calibration tool is very important. I use the iDisplay Pro from X-Rite (basically a sensor you put on the monitor while the software puts up colors on the monitor for it to measure, to profile the monitor); there are lots of options.
Last edited by robphoto on Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by squirm »

Get something with a Ryzen 7, a Vega and a TLC drive, no quad. good value.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

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Hubris wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:55 pm Thanks everyone, so far. No real budget limitations but of course don’t want to spend $ that I don’t have to. The machine will be kept for 5-10 yrs most likely based on current patterns. In terms of usage, probably serious hobbyist if that helps...tens or low hundreds of images per month.

Rob & Target2019...not surehow I would specify those things in placing an order, can you provide guidance on terminology for ordering?
Thx for the volume... I was thinking far more than that volume of photos. If your having someone build it give them these details but could easily get an off the shelf one for this work - laptop or desktop. So you would want an SSD for operating system & lr/ps cache and possibly a 2nd spinning drive for the images (you could get away with a usb3 external drive but I wouldn't unless you really wanted a lighter laptop). Grab some recent pictures to determine average size and then project that out for your 5-10 years lifespan and see if you need an extra drive. I would select a dedicated graphics card (not "onboard" or "integrated") with enough power to be called a gaming machine (available on laptops no real issue).

Just check the graphics card against the Adobe site for the list of known good/bad - chances are a recent one for gaming will be fine.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by 02nz »

Clock speed/gigahertz is pretty irrelevant these days. Some CPUs at 1 GHz are much faster than others at 3 GHz. I would look for a Ryzen 3000 series (4000 desktop chips aren't really widely available yet), or Intel Core i5/i7, preferably with 6 cores.

SSD is a must, and cheap enough that I wouldn't even bother with HDDs. NVME drives are faster than SATA, and the price premium is now pretty small. Samsung 970 EVO or PRO will be fastest/priciest, but there are lots of other good ones, e.g., Western Digital SN750. Even the cheaper drives (WD SN550) will be plenty fast for most photo editing.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by Rowan Oak »

Hubris wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:11 pm Hi BH Tech Experts,
I’m looking for your input about specs for a replacement computer for my old desktop, and would like one set up to optimize performance of Photoshop and Lightroom. My preference is for PC (not Mac/Apple) and I definitely don’t want to build or modify the computer myself. I’m somewhat intimidated/overwhelmed by the research process thus far.

My research thus far suggests these specs as optimal: 3+ GHz CPU, 16-32 GB RAM, DVD-RW Optical Drive, 512GB SSD (+/- 1TB HDD also), GPU (GeForce?)...

I’m thinking that once the specs are nailed down, I can shop Lenovo/Dell/HP and Costco; and get a quote for a custom build by the local computer shop.

Will also need a new monitor so appreciate any feedback about that also.
Thanks in advance for what I’m sure will be useful feedback.
I've found Puget Systems to be a good resource for program specific builds and they do build a PC specifically made for Photoshop. It's a good way to see the specs and parts list a professional computer builder is using for a PC optimized for Photoshop. They use off the shelf parts so it makes it very easy to compare prices unlike proprietary builders such as dell, etc..

https://www.pugetsystems.com/recommende ... mendations

https://www.pugetsystems.com/recommende ... toshop-139
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dbr
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by dbr »

I agree with skipping the disc hard drive entirely. I went with 2TB SSD in my recent desktop and happy with it.

I would not say this is specific to Photoshop.

I also use a portable (cigarette pack size) 2TB SSD for backup running automatic backup software.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by Sandtrap »

robphoto wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:44 pm I am a photographer and use Photoshop constantly.

The suggestions you've gotten are good. You'll love running the operating system on the SSD (you could also use part of it for the Photoshop scratch disk).
It's nice to store your working image files on an SSD also, but if money is tight you could get a big spinning hard drive for that.

I don't think anyone had mentioned getting something to calibrate your monitor. (Well, now I see someone did above) If you want predictable results in Photoshop, getting a good monitor and calibration tool is very important. I use the iDisplay Pro from X-Rite (basically a sensor you put on the monitor while the software puts up colors on the monitor for it to measure, to profile the monitor); there are lots of options.
+1
Monitors made specifically for photo use are great.
We've used the Spyder calibrator for decades. Some of the newer photo monitors have it as a feature built in and with software.
Without monitor calibration, what is printed out at home or results from a photo lab will be different than what is seen on the monitor.

j :happy
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by Sandtrap »

A home computer with the right post processing tools can still render a descent image from a smaller camera.
This is a "saved by Lightroom image" (exposure was terrible) using an Olympus (micro 4/3 format).
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by SmileyFace »

Maxing out the RAM for your budget is good for LightroomCC-Classic (if that's what you use - formerly it was just "Lightroom") and PhotoshopCC.
If Lightroom-Classic with a large catalog is what you use - having the catalog on SSD makes everything perform much faster so be sure your SSD can accommodate (512 GB should be enough). I also like having a fast internal drive for the actual files - so depending how large/number of your files (Do you shoot large MP-RAW, etc.?) you might want something bigger than 1TB for the second drive (a lot of people just use external drives but not as efficient - I like the external drives for backup only).
(EDIT ADD: The Dell XPS Special Edition someone mentioned above is worthy of consideration. The more expensive Puget system mentioned is probably overkill for a hobbyist who isn't doing a lot of really serious work in Photoshop).
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lthenderson
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by lthenderson »

I run Lightroom on my four year old Dell PC and it runs just fine. The specs for it I copied from the website I ordered it on and pasted below.

Dell XPS x8900-8756BLK Desktop (6th Generation Intel Core i7, 32 GB RAM, 2 TB HDD + 256 GB SSD) NVIDIA GTX 960
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Hubris
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by Hubris »

Thanks everyone, this is all quite helpful. A few responses to some of the comments/questions:

Backups: I think I’ll be in good shape. Recently changed to both iDrive and local backups to external 5TB HDDs, which are rotated to offsite.

Cameras: I was pretty into film (slides) and the early stages of digital, and ended up with a Nikon D100 as my primary camera until work and other things crowded out photography; especially as more computer time was required and I was already at my computer tons for work. I was pretty active with having printed quite a few high resolution images up to 24”x36”, through some of the online printing outfits. Even sold some prints as fine art prints, mostly to friends. Several years ago, I sold all of my gear (except a couple of nice lenses and a Canon PIXMA printer) since I realized I’d want to get new gear if/when I got back into it. Since then, I’ve fed my photography bug with my iPhone X and with a Panasonic LUMIX LX100. Historically I shot a fair of RAW (NEF) and would like to revisit many of those images in addition to taking and processing new ones.

Monitor Calibration: I hear this loud and clear as I used to have a Spyder unit. I like the idea of a monitor that comes with calibration capability.

So, I’m doing the research on how to gear back up again and probably won’t pull the trigger on everything until I do some more research on various camera/sensor types, etc but my old computer is certainly ready for replacement so thought I would start there.

Thanks again everyone for the information, and I welcome additional input going forward.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by SmileyFace »

Hubris wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:44 pm Thanks everyone, this is all quite helpful. A few responses to some of the comments/questions:

Backups: I think I’ll be in good shape. Recently changed to both iDrive and local backups to external 5TB HDDs, which are rotated to offsite.

Cameras: I was pretty into film (slides) and the early stages of digital, and ended up with a Nikon D100 as my primary camera until work and other things crowded out photography; especially as more computer time was required and I was already at my computer tons for work. I was pretty active with having printed quite a few high resolution images up to 24”x36”, through some of the online printing outfits. Even sold some prints as fine art prints, mostly to friends. Several years ago, I sold all of my gear (except a couple of nice lenses and a Canon PIXMA printer) since I realized I’d want to get new gear if/when I got back into it. Since then, I’ve fed my photography bug with my iPhone X and with a Panasonic LUMIX LX100. Historically I shot a fair of RAW (NEF) and would like to revisit many of those images in addition to taking and processing new ones.

Monitor Calibration: I hear this loud and clear as I used to have a Spyder unit. I like the idea of a monitor that comes with calibration capability.

So, I’m doing the research on how to gear back up again and probably won’t pull the trigger on everything until I do some more research on various camera/sensor types, etc but my old computer is certainly ready for replacement so thought I would start there.

Thanks again everyone for the information, and I welcome additional input going forward.
If Memory serves the D100 is a 6MP camera. If you go with something like the Nikon Z6 you will be woking with 24.5 MP images - with the Z7 it is 45.7MP. The RAW files are much bigger. The only reason I mention this is someone upthread mentioned they are fine with their 4 year old Dell. If they are working with pictures from their iPhone in Lightroom they are fine - but if they are working with 24 or 45 MP RAW images they will definitely feel it especially if they have a catalog of over 100,000 images (can get by perhaps but there will be delays) - and then using a workflow that has you moving between Lightroom to Photoshop and Back requires a bit more as well. So in some ways - your camera choice will determine your Computer choice.
Note also that the Adobe terminology has changed - what used to be called "Lightroom" is now called "Ligthroom-Classic" and Adobe has a new lighter-weight App that is more for sharing across devices called "Lightroom". I mention this because if someone says "Lightroom runs fine" and they are talking about the "new" Lightroom it is a different statement than Lightroom-Classic (that uses far more resources especially if you have a large catalog of files you are working with). You will also learn - if you haven't used Lightroom (Lightroom-Classic) and Photoshop in a while - that there are less reasons to go to Photoshop than there used to be as you can do more directly within LIghtroom-Classic compared to a few years back.
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Watty
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by Watty »

Hubris wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:44 pm So, I’m doing the research on how to gear back up again and probably won’t pull the trigger on everything until I do some more research on various camera/sensor types, etc .....
I have not been seriously shopping for anything recently but with the camera makers struggling because cell phones are taking market share, camera stores closing, the transition to mirrorless disrupting the market, tariffs, and supply disruptions with the pandemic I have not seen many real bargains recently.

You might want to figure out what you want by the black friday sales and Christmas just in case there are any good sales then.
dwc13
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by dwc13 »

I will respectfully disagree with those stating 16 GB RAM is sufficient. IMHO, OP should opt for 32 GB RAM. If an AMD Ryzen (Zen 2) CPU is powering the PC, then the 32 GB RAM should be configured as 2 x 16 GB DDR4 3200 MHz UDIMMs. AMD CPUs love dual channel fast memory. FWIW, on another thread several of us are discussing recently finished or work-in-progress new computer builds. Yesterday evening I picked up Crucial Ballistix 32 GB DDR4 3200 MHz UDIMMs (2x16 GB) for my build for $109 at Micro Center.

By default, Photoshop uses 70% of available RAM (adjustable). Adobe recommends at least 8 GB RAM. Windows 10 (64 bit) requires a minimum of 2 GB RAM at idle; it will use more RAM if available. So right off the bat, if the PC has 16 GB RAM, expect at least 3 to 4 GB will be used by Windows alone. As non-windows processes start running (e.g., antivirus, printer functions, etc.), they will also utilize RAM. In terms of speed, RAM is much faster than even the fastest available SSDs (Gen 4 nvme) that would be used as a scratch disk if there wasn't enough available RAM. More available RAM translates to faster Photoshop performance. Having 32 GB installed and tested before shipment is one less thing to undertake down the road (if desired). Of course, if the user is willing to install UDIMMs, then that might be the more cost effective route.

A dedicated graphics card with a sufficient number of appropriate ports (HDMI and/or display port) is also highly recommended. It will speed up certain Photoshop functions and drive the connected 2K/4K monitor(s). Integrated graphics should not even be in the consideration set. It is usually slower and steals system RAM. It pains me to say this because I currently own AMD shares and used ATI graphics cards for many years (RIP, 9700 Pro) but Nvidia has great video card technology and better software drivers. I hesitate to bring up professional graphics cards (e.g., Nvidia Quadro, AMD Radeon Pro) because they are usually more expensive than their gaming counterparts with the same GPU & key specs, but they do offer several advantages including: higher quality build materials; more stable drivers; usually a single expansions slot; lower power & more quiet. Often professional dedicated graphics cards come equipped with ports to support 4 monitors. In case you're interested (so you can inquire when ordering a computer as to what professional graphics card options, if any, are available with your system), I have included links to B&H Photovideo:

Nvidia Quadro
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products ... A%20Quadro

AMD Radeon Pro
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?N ... yes&sts=ma
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vineviz
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by vineviz »

dwc13 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:51 am I will respectfully disagree with those stating 16 GB RAM is sufficient.
Photoshop will not bottleneck on 16GB of RAM unless the user is applying more than 100 layers to a 50 megapixel image. Few professional photographers will do that, much less even a hardcore amateur.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by dwc13 »

vineviz wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:02 am
dwc13 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:51 am I will respectfully disagree with those stating 16 GB RAM is sufficient.
Photoshop will not bottleneck on 16GB of RAM unless the user is applying more than 100 layers to a 50 megapixel image. Few professional photographers will do that, much less even a hardcore amateur.

Photoshop runs better with more available RAM. Period. It will utilize what it needs up to the set resource limit (70% of available by default). There might be times when multiple images are simultaneously open, increasing the need for RAM. And it's not just Photoshop that will be using system memory, especially if OP is multitasking. Perhaps a chat program, streaming music, or a web browser will be open while working in Photoshop.

OP mentioned the possibility of buying camera equipment (presumably digital) at some point, which further opens up the possibility of shooting digital video beyond what LX-100 is capable. It can shoot 4K video, I believe, albeit at a relatively slow FPS. Not sure about OIS or zoom with that device, both of which can greatly affect the video. Anyone who has edited video on a computer should understand the importance of having more RAM, especially for higher resolutions. For editing 4K video, 32 GB RAM is a realistic minimum). More and more digital cameras are capable of shooting 4K video and that should only increase in the future. There are already high end video cameras shooting 6K and 8K video, though those resolutions might not (if ever) become the de facto standard in the consumer market for years.

The distinction between a "professional" and "amateur" (your characterization), while useful when filing income taxes, is often meaningless for purposes of assessing computer usage/requirements/desires. Nobody -- professional or otherwise -- wants a frustrating experience while using a computer. Many enthusiasts/hobbyists (my terminology) need/want the same tools as professionals use and are willing to invest the resources (money, training, time) to acquire and properly use them. One should not underestimate the commitment on the part of enthusiasts/hobbyists merely because they don't earn a living from pursuing their interests (and hence aren't considered professionals). In fact, some enthusiasts/hobbyists are pushing limits far beyond what most professionals might do with the same equipment. Happens quite often with computer hardware.

OP also indicated the new computer will be kept 5-10 years, so it's not like the additional 16 GB RAM will be scrapped after a year or two. IMO, 32 GB RAM is the correct way to go.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by vineviz »

dwc13 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:07 pm Photoshop runs better with more available RAM. Period. It will utilize what it needs up to the set resource limit (70% of available by default). There might be times when multiple images are simultaneously open, increasing the need for RAM. And it's not just Photoshop that will be using system memory, especially if OP is multitasking. Perhaps a chat program, streaming music, or a web browser will be open while working in Photoshop.
Photoshop runs better with more RAM up until the point it's using all it needs.

A raw file from a Canon EOS-1D X Mark III is 22MB: with 16GB of RAM the OP can open 350 of these in Photoshop simultaneously and STILL not find the program is swapping out to the disk EVEN with email, YouTube, and Bogleheads.org open in the background.

You make a good point that video editing is a much more voracious user of RAM, but I was addressing the topic the OP posed (i.e. "computer setup for Photoshop"). If the topic was "Computer Setup for Premiere Pro" then the recommendation would be different, in which case even 32GB would likely be unsatisfying for 4k video.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by dwc13 »

Sandtrap wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:12 am
robphoto wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:44 pm I am a photographer and use Photoshop constantly.

The suggestions you've gotten are good. You'll love running the operating system on the SSD (you could also use part of it for the Photoshop scratch disk).
It's nice to store your working image files on an SSD also, but if money is tight you could get a big spinning hard drive for that.

I don't think anyone had mentioned getting something to calibrate your monitor. (Well, now I see someone did above) If you want predictable results in Photoshop, getting a good monitor and calibration tool is very important. I use the iDisplay Pro from X-Rite (basically a sensor you put on the monitor while the software puts up colors on the monitor for it to measure, to profile the monitor); there are lots of options.
+1
Monitors made specifically for photo use are great.
We've used the Spyder calibrator for decades. Some of the newer photo monitors have it as a feature built in and with software.
Without monitor calibration, what is printed out at home or results from a photo lab will be different than what is seen on the monitor.

j :happy
Very good call on screen calibration.

In addition, the physical positioning of the monitor is important. The stand bundled with the monitor should be able to adjust height, swivel, tilt and pivot. If not, most current monitors have VESA mount holes (typically 100mm x 100mm) for use with third party stands supporting those adjustments. Cable management, while nice to have built into the stand, can be as simple as using velcro straps or zip ties.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by dwc13 »

vineviz wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:39 pm
dwc13 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:07 pm Photoshop runs better with more available RAM. Period. It will utilize what it needs up to the set resource limit (70% of available by default). There might be times when multiple images are simultaneously open, increasing the need for RAM. And it's not just Photoshop that will be using system memory, especially if OP is multitasking. Perhaps a chat program, streaming music, or a web browser will be open while working in Photoshop.
Photoshop runs better with more RAM up until the point it's using all it needs.

A raw file from a Canon EOS-1D X Mark III is 22MB: with 16GB of RAM the OP can open 350 of these in Photoshop simultaneously and STILL not find the program is swapping out to the disk EVEN with email, YouTube, and Bogleheads.org open in the background.

You make a good point that video editing is a much more voracious user of RAM, but I was addressing the topic the OP posed (i.e. "computer setup for Photoshop"). If the topic was "Computer Setup for Premiere Pro" then the recommendation would be different, in which case even 32GB would likely be unsatisfying for 4k video.
And, on the flip side, a Photoshop user posted about the program writing to/reading from the scratch disk even on a system with 40 GB RAM. OP has indicated buying a computer, rather than building one, is in order. I interpreted that as also excluding future DIY hardware upgrades inside the case. Yet another reason why 32 GB RAM is the better way to go in this situation. Agree to disagree.

The following article linked below might be of interest to OP in helping with the evaluation/buying decision from a components standpoint. Others have linked to Puget Systems earlier in this thread; not sure if it was also to this article. There is another one that covered memory usage for Photoshop CS6, but that is an older version.

Full disclosure: I have *no* connection whatsoever with Puget Systems (ownership interest, compensated spokesperson, reviewer, etc.). I do not use any of the company's products, nor am I recommending them. The link below is provided solely for informational purposes so OP can see some of the "industry language" used when shopping for a computer.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/recommende ... mendations

FWIW, I don't particularly like the future upgrade route from 2 x 8 GB RAM, especially in an AMD Ryzen system. Assuming there are 4 memory slots on the motherboard, if all 4 are populated with UDIMMs after upgrading from 16 GB to 32 GB, then DDR4 2667 MHz would become the maximum speed for memory supported per AMD -- even if the existing 2 x 8 GB modules are higher speed (say, 3200 MHz). With 2 UDIMMs, AMD officially supports 3200 MHz. I have read occasional comments of existing faster DDR4 memory not working (rather than slowing down to 2667 MHz) after adding modules 3 & 4 to the motherboard. Hard to say if it was the result of incorrect slotting/pairing, a needed BIOS update, incorrect XMP profile setup, or some other issue.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by psy1 »

You have received mostly good advice, but not all good. The problem with asking these questions is that you will get a zillion different answers, all of which work to a degree.

One thing you mentioned that others have not touched on is that you want the computer to last as long as 10 years! That is a long time in the photography world. File sizes could triple, processor and memory demands will increase, etc.

I just upgraded my iMac: i9, 96 GB RAM, 2 TB SSD. I want mine to last as well.

So the short version: get an i9, a decent graphics card but don't break the bank, as much RAM as you can afford, and at least a 1 TB SSD. Make sure to get at least one Thunderbolt port. For a monitor, consider two so that you can offload all the PS panels on one screen and use the other monitor for editing. I prefer 2 X 27 inch monitors.

You will hear conflicting things about RAM. 16 GB? I would consider 64 GB minimum. Of course, you can slog away in PS with less. But start using luminosity masks and open 30+ layers and you will pull your hair out with 16 GB RAM. The whole point of upgrading and future-proofing a desktop is to max out the bottlenecks (processor, RAM, SSD, and to a lesser extent graphics card). Since you are storing your photos on external HD's you can go relatively light on the SSD. But max out processor and RAM.

Another thing to consider is heat and noise. Look for a case and cooling system that is not so noisy.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by vineviz »

dwc13 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:42 pm And, on the flip side, a Photoshop user posted about the program writing to/reading from the scratch disk even on a system with 40 GB RAM. OP has indicated buying a computer, rather than building one, is in order. I interpreted that as also excluding future DIY hardware upgrades inside the case. Yet another reason why 32 GB RAM is the better way to go in this situation. Agree to disagree.

The following article linked below might be of interest to OP in helping with the evaluation/buying decision from a components standpoint. Others have linked to Puget Systems earlier in this thread; not sure if it was also to this article. There is another one that covered memory usage for Photoshop CS6, but that is an older version.
FWIW, Puget Systems suggests (as I do) that 16GB of RAM is more than sufficient for working with images >500MB in size. A 20 megapixel image with a color depth of 16 bits is less about a 1/3 that size.

Memory is cheap, so I will happily concede that buying more than you need is a very reasonable approach. And there's always a chance the OP might decide they can't live without a Hasselblad H6D-400c at some point..
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by Sandtrap »

Average file sizes that a computer might have to work with for "full frame" camera output (IE: Canon, Nikon, Sony, "full frame sensors".

RAW = 28,000 KB (unprocessed in camera)
JPEG = 14,000 KB (camera can be set to shoot in jpeg, many shoot only jpeg and output to jpeg)
TIFF - 125,000 KB

Unprocessed compressed camera "raw" files need to be converted to be useable. Raw Editors such as Adobe and Capture One output from Sony, Canon, Nikon, etc, "raw" files from camera to "tiff" files which are uncompressed with all of the camera and photo data available after decompression.

Professional level photo editors edit raw files (Capture One), which means manipulating a 125k ave. file size, then, once edited, output either a "tiff" or "jpeg" file.

To retain best quality (lossless), a tiff file is output into Photoshop (full version) or other "Tiff File Editor" where it can be edited with minimal or less data (resolution) loss. Once editing is finished there, then the final output can either be a Tiff or JPEG file.
The idea here is to have the least data loss in each stage of post processing. That's why TIFF files are called "lossless".

So, imagine Photoshop (full version) editing a TIFF file with 10 layers. The data manipulation size is immense.

Some professional photo labs will spec either TIFF or JPEG to be sent to the for processing.
(To shoot in "raw" and then output to jpeg and edit in jpeg is . . . . . not very good).
I've heard folks say, "yea, I shoot in raw all the time, all the pros do it", and then output to jpeg and edit in jpeg on an iPad, then email final pics in tinier email size files (even less resolution).

Professional or serious hobbyists will store to backup, either or both the RAW and the TIFF original unedited and final edits of a photo. (Google Joel Sartore or National Geographic to see his filing system for his photos and "Photo Ark" series). Commercial photographers, weddings, events, location, studio, etc, will likely work like this because down the line, the original client might request additional files to be sent to them, maybe to review "secondary keepers", etc.

All of the above file sizes change per camera sensor size and shot settings (jpeg or raw).
IE: Sony DSC100 1" sensor, Canon/Nikon/Sony "full frame sensor", Mamiya/Hasslebland/SystemOne/Etc. "Medium format" (monster files), or even the latest super high resolution Canon/Nikon "full frame sensor" cameras with 35+ mb resolution.

Actionably: it would be good to get a photo processing computer that can grow as one's hobby grows.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by vineviz »

Sandtrap wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:19 am So, imagine Photoshop (full version) editing a TIFF file with 10 layers. The data manipulation size is immense.
"Immense" in this context would be roughly 1.2GB, right?
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by Sandtrap »

vineviz wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:03 am
Sandtrap wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:19 am So, imagine Photoshop (full version) editing a TIFF file with 10 layers. The data manipulation size is immense.
"Immense" in this context would be roughly 1.2GB, right?
I don't know what the data load would be happening while we're doing that, but we occasionally have program locks and glitches when post processing some complex files/layers where we have to shut down and reboot. I think it's the data manipulation demands besides the actual file size, but I'm not that techy to know that.

Usually with the raw editors but not always. It takes a lot to bog our photo computers down so it has to be a lot whatever it is. We have to evolve as our equipment changes, thank goodness that doesn't happen very often. It did in the early stages of digital when the cameras went through rapid changes. The weakest link would be the problem, either scratch drive speed and capacity, root drive speed, ram, video card, or time of day and position of stars.

Likely, the "average" non commercial photo/image processor or graphic designer (rendering), etc, wouldn't have these issues. The other one that's tough on computers is CADD work and things requiring rendering. I suppose video editing work as well.

The limit of my tech knowledge on this is when DW has problems with her office photo computer when editing large commercial shoot files on deadline and I have to "do something!"

As always. Lot's of ways of doing things that is different for everyone.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by user9532 »

For best results, you will need a monitor that supports Adobe RGB color space.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by hunoraut »

Reading this has been a chuckle. 32 GB memory minimum. 64 GB minimum! Speaking to someone shooting on a LX100 and still references optical drives...

It's like asking what golf clubs to use... the answers typically reflect far more on each persons biases and obsessiveness (nothing wrong with that per se) than actual practical recommendations. The tool becomes an objective unto itself, rather than serving its original purpose.

Most machines are more than fine. Many many pros edit on standard off the shelf laptop, popularly Macbook Pros. Ming Thein for years worked with the 11" Macbook Air.

I used to travel a ton so portability was a priority. I also used the small Macbook Air, and various other ultrabooks running Windows and MacOS. 8GB is on the light side. 16GB is plenty. They pushed through about 50,000 images a year from 16-24MP RAW files. All worked with aplomp. Takes a bit when doing multiframe composites (image stacking or panoramas), but for doing single images at a time and then exporting in bulk, its absolutely sufficient.

OP doesn't prefer Apple products, but generally Apple displays have very good color coverage (=gamut), and are also well-calibrated out of the box. That's why I prefer them as well. Many PCs are getting better at that, Dell XPS particularly are good all around machines, not just for photo work. And if using laptop, it having a built in memory card reader is a big convenience.

Without getting deep into the weeds, Dell Ultrasharps are pretty good at color accuracy, and again the Apple displays as well.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by SmileyFace »

Sandtrap wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:19 am
Unprocessed compressed camera "raw" files need to be converted to be useable. Raw Editors such as Adobe and Capture One output from Sony, Canon, Nikon, etc, "raw" files from camera to "tiff" files which are uncompressed with all of the camera and photo data available after decompression.

Professional level photo editors edit raw files (Capture One), which means manipulating a 125k ave. file size, then, once edited, output either a "tiff" or "jpeg" file.

The OP mentioned Lightroom and that is what most hobbyiests as well as many professionals now use to process RAW files. No need for separare Adobe Raw editor nor capture one - you bounce back and forth between lightoom-classic and photoshop - can export from either depending upon your workflow.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by Sandtrap »

DaftInvestor wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:02 pm
Sandtrap wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:19 am
Unprocessed compressed camera "raw" files need to be converted to be useable. Raw Editors such as Adobe and Capture One output from Sony, Canon, Nikon, etc, "raw" files from camera to "tiff" files which are uncompressed with all of the camera and photo data available after decompression.

Professional level photo editors edit raw files (Capture One), which means manipulating a 125k ave. file size, then, once edited, output either a "tiff" or "jpeg" file.

The OP mentioned Lightroom and that is what most hobbyiests as well as many professionals now use to process RAW files. No need for separare Adobe Raw editor nor capture one - you bounce back and forth between lightoom-classic and photoshop - can export from either depending upon your workflow.
True.
Great points! Thanks.

Lightroom has come a long way.
For most folks, I imagine it might be all that they ever need for great results.

DW no longer uses it preferring Capture One. I have it onboard because it does some things better than the other programs. They each seem to have their own strengths so we flow through them according to whats needed.
Our portfolios are on "Getty", etc, and they keep raising the bar so we try to keep up.

j :D
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by SmileyFace »

Sandtrap wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:28 pm
DaftInvestor wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:02 pm
Sandtrap wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:19 am
Unprocessed compressed camera "raw" files need to be converted to be useable. Raw Editors such as Adobe and Capture One output from Sony, Canon, Nikon, etc, "raw" files from camera to "tiff" files which are uncompressed with all of the camera and photo data available after decompression.

Professional level photo editors edit raw files (Capture One), which means manipulating a 125k ave. file size, then, once edited, output either a "tiff" or "jpeg" file.

The OP mentioned Lightroom and that is what most hobbyiests as well as many professionals now use to process RAW files. No need for separare Adobe Raw editor nor capture one - you bounce back and forth between lightoom-classic and photoshop - can export from either depending upon your workflow.
True.
Lightroom has come a long way.
DW no longer uses it preferring Capture One. I have it onboard because it does some things better than the other programs. They each seem to have their own strengths so we flow through them according to whats needed.
Our portfolios are on "Getty", etc, and they keep raising the bar so we try to keep up.

j :D

j :D
Capture One + Photoshop? Or just Capture One?
You probably know this but others may not - With Adobe's Photography Plan (which is the cheapest way to get Photoshop I am aware of) you are paying for Photoshop and you are getting Lightroom-Classic for free - so Capture One is just an additional cost on top of Photoshop. (In fact, at least right now, it is cheaper to get Photoshop, Lightroom, Lightroom-Classic, etc. at $9.99 a month versus getting just Photoshop at $20.99 a month).
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by Sandtrap »

DaftInvestor wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:25 am
Sandtrap wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:28 pm
DaftInvestor wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:02 pm
Sandtrap wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:19 am
Unprocessed compressed camera "raw" files need to be converted to be useable. Raw Editors such as Adobe and Capture One output from Sony, Canon, Nikon, etc, "raw" files from camera to "tiff" files which are uncompressed with all of the camera and photo data available after decompression.

Professional level photo editors edit raw files (Capture One), which means manipulating a 125k ave. file size, then, once edited, output either a "tiff" or "jpeg" file.

The OP mentioned Lightroom and that is what most hobbyiests as well as many professionals now use to process RAW files. No need for separare Adobe Raw editor nor capture one - you bounce back and forth between lightoom-classic and photoshop - can export from either depending upon your workflow.
True.
Lightroom has come a long way.
DW no longer uses it preferring Capture One. I have it onboard because it does some things better than the other programs. They each seem to have their own strengths so we flow through them according to whats needed.
Our portfolios are on "Getty", etc, and they keep raising the bar so we try to keep up.

j :D

j :D
Capture One + Photoshop? Or just Capture One?
You probably know this but others may not - With Adobe's Photography Plan (which is the cheapest way to get Photoshop I am aware of) you are paying for Photoshop and you are getting Lightroom-Classic for free - so Capture One is just an additional cost on top of Photoshop. (In fact, at least right now, it is cheaper to get Photoshop, Lightroom, Lightroom-Classic, etc. at $9.99 a month versus getting just Photoshop at $20.99 a month).
Great info!
Thanks!!

Our photo computers run, Capture One, Photoshop Cs6 (full with numerous plugins), Lightroom (full), and a number of other programs. Workflow is generally; RAW edit Capture One then TIFF output 64 bit to Photoshop or other TIFF editors depending on what's needed, sometimes multiple, then final output usually to JPEG for uploads to Stock Photography sites (Getty, Shutterstock, Istock, Alamy, etc) or to commercial clients who sometimes want the TIFFS for their own in house post processing, advertising dept, etc.
Often, many of the programs will be open at once. Additional loads are pen tablets, etc.

There are a lot of ways to do these things but it took us over 15 years to settle into this current workflow where the output is as best that we can get and our systems can handle it as well.

*Everyone has different needs and resources which makes Photography such a wonderful thing to do, from what cameras are used, the shoot, to process, to even just plain enjoying the "gear". In our case, we shoot for fun and also location, event, and studio, shoots that have to meet commercial and client demands. OP: In your case, again, fit your needs and "fun factor!".

IE: A fellow photographer shoots film in medium to large format and has his own professional darkroom. He has a "look" that is unique and sells to a niche but growing customer base as well as has great fun with it.

OP
*In summary, much like shopping computers based on the software to be used, photo editing starts with the type of camera and the flow from shoot to end use, and result requirements. Buy accordingly. Everyone is different. The suggestion to use Lightroom and Photoshop full is a good one.

Enjoy
j :D

Took this recently with my cell phone of 2 cameras I brought to a recent news event.
This is the iPhone 7+. Cell phone pics have come a long way. Better than digital cameras of old in fact.
Image
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by Ged »

Instead of a machine with an SSD I would recommend an M.2 drive. These are 2-4 times faster. With photo processing you will notice the difference. I would also recommend a Ryzen processor with 8 cores. Photo editing will take advantage of the parallel processing these are capable of.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by SmileyFace »

Ged wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:32 am Instead of a machine with an SSD I would recommend an M.2 drive.
Aren't M.2 drives SSDs? just a smaller form-factor (and generally faster but that should be confirmed).
So if you get an M.2 drive you are getting an SSD.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by dwc13 »

DaftInvestor wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:41 am
Ged wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:32 am Instead of a machine with an SSD I would recommend an M.2 drive.
Aren't M.2 drives SSDs? just a smaller form-factor (and generally faster but that should be confirmed).
So if you get an M.2 drive you are getting an SSD.
Yes, an M.2 drive (form factor) is an SSD. Perhaps OP meant an SSD with an NVMe interface (and M.2 form factor), rather than the traditional 2.5" SSD with the older and slower SATA 6 Gbps interface.

An M.2 with a SATA 6 Gbps interface will basically be the same speed as a 2.5" SATA 6 Gbps SSD. Thanks to the computer industry for another often confusing naming convention. Can't wait for the next one...
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by sycamore »

dwc13 wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:32 pm
DaftInvestor wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:41 am
Ged wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:32 am Instead of a machine with an SSD I would recommend an M.2 drive.
Aren't M.2 drives SSDs? just a smaller form-factor (and generally faster but that should be confirmed).
So if you get an M.2 drive you are getting an SSD.
Yes, an M.2 drive (form factor) is an SSD. Perhaps OP meant an SSD with an NVMe interface (and M.2 form factor), rather than the traditional 2.5" SSD with the older and slower SATA 6 Gbps interface.

An M.2 with a SATA 6 Gbps interface will basically be the same speed as a 2.5" SATA 6 Gbps SSD. Thanks to the computer industry for another often confusing naming convention. Can't wait for the next one...
NVMe would be preferable as it uses a PCIe connection directly to the CPU (rather than going through data controller). Definitely something to look for in a new computer (retail or home-built).
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by Ged »

sycamore wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:39 pm
dwc13 wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:32 pm
DaftInvestor wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:41 am
Ged wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:32 am Instead of a machine with an SSD I would recommend an M.2 drive.
Aren't M.2 drives SSDs? just a smaller form-factor (and generally faster but that should be confirmed).
So if you get an M.2 drive you are getting an SSD.
Yes, an M.2 drive (form factor) is an SSD. Perhaps OP meant an SSD with an NVMe interface (and M.2 form factor), rather than the traditional 2.5" SSD with the older and slower SATA 6 Gbps interface.

An M.2 with a SATA 6 Gbps interface will basically be the same speed as a 2.5" SATA 6 Gbps SSD. Thanks to the computer industry for another often confusing naming convention. Can't wait for the next one...
NVMe would be preferable as it uses a PCIe connection directly to the CPU (rather than going through data controller). Definitely something to look for in a new computer (retail or home-built).
Are there any desktop computers today sold with M.2 SATA ports? I haven't seen one for a while.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by sycamore »

Ged wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:51 pm ...
Are there any desktop computers today sold with M.2 SATA ports? I haven't seen one for a while.
I don't know for sure; I'm just getting back reviewing components & specs for a computer I plan to buy soon. Just perusing the desktops at Dell, they all seem to be NVMe. That's good news for a consumer as NVMe is best nowadays.
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Re: New Computer Setup for Photoshop

Post by dwc13 »

Ged wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:51 pm
Are there any desktop computers today sold with M.2 SATA ports? I haven't seen one for a while.
There are still desktop computers available with a hard drive installed (no SSDs), so I wouldn't be too surprised.
https://store.acer.com/en-us/desktops/t ... 0g-i3810h1

Slightly older model Small Form Factor (SFF) computers might be the best chance for having an M.2 SATA III (6 Gbps) port.

Acer lists "Total Solid State Drive Capacity" for some of its offerings (linked below); that *could* mean a 2.5" SATA III SSD or M.2 SATA III SSD, or some combination of older SSDs. If there was an M.2 NVMe SSD in the configuration, I think that would have been clearly noted as a selling point.
https://store.acer.com/en-us/desktops/t ... c-895-ur11

An M.2 SATA III SSD still has merits (versus 2.5" SATA III SSDs). Assuming the motherboard has a slot to support it, that's 2 less cables (data, power) cluttering up the case. More of a selling point to those who build their own computers.
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