Buying guns not an option, what else

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annu
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Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by annu »

Thinking about having some form of safety help at home in case of emergency. Not going to buy guns, looking for any other options....

Have been looking at mace, but looks like they are not reliable and have a shelf life. Any suggestions recommendations will be appreciated.
Thegame14
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by Thegame14 »

a gun or not having anything valuable in the house, other than your life of course, or get an alarm system
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rob
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by rob »

Nice 4 x battery steel mag light.... Small tee ball bat.... Alarm with internal siren that you can trigger....
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mega317
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by mega317 »

What kind of emergency?

Have you seen the last crusade?
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6212
HawkeyePierce
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by HawkeyePierce »

Is your concern preventing home invasions?
  • Get a dog
  • Upgrade your deadbolts to Class 1 locks and install reinforced strike plates
  • Ensure windows can't be jimmied open (eg if you have horizontal sliders, put a wooden dowel in the track)
  • Install motion-sensing lights around exterior doors/gates
  • Install anti-break film on windows
A defensive weapon is a last resort. Better to prevent someone from getting inside in the first place. The vast majority of burglaries are crimes of opportunity—if you don't make yourself an easy target, they'll probably move on.
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whodidntante
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by whodidntante »

It depends a great deal on what threat you are worried about, your level of fitness, what you are willing to do to your adversary, and what safety considerations are relevant for your household.

For the personal touch, consider a katana, or a mace. Or my personal favorite, the claw hammer. The claw hammer or a short aluminum baseball bat (like for tee ball) do not look out of place in most households.

It's probably worthwhile to understand the rules of engagement. In my state, I'm not allowed to use lethal force unless a reasonable person would think my life was in danger. I can't even legally injure someone just because they are in my house at 2 am. Other states have a much lower gate to lethal force.

You can also hire Chuck Norris to sleep in the spare bedroom. He's getting old, but he will never die.
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JoMoney
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by JoMoney »

A well trained dog.
An escape route/plan on where to run/hide/safe room, and an alarm that will call someone that does have a gun.
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livesoft
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by livesoft »

smoke detectors / carbon monoxide detectors / fire detectors

fire extinguishers for small kitchen fires

A nice dog to calm your nerves and take your worries away

In our house, we have no valuables: No guns, no money, no precious metals, no jewelry, no safe, no alarm system.
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sean2724
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by sean2724 »

A high intensity flashlight with a strike bezel. Surefire has a few options. Imagine 1000 lumens - enough to daze and overwhelm someone’s eyes. And if they come closer - a bonk on the head. You’ll want something with cr123 batteries - they have a 10 year shelf life. Nothing is wrong with guns if you’re responsible.
123
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by 123 »

Some type of loud alarm that you can easily trigger to alert neighbors (and anyone else) that something is wrong.
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AerialWombat
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by AerialWombat »

Fully automatic submachine dog; German shepherd type.

TASER.

Exit strategy.
sfnerd
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by sfnerd »

HawkeyePierce wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:57 pm Is your concern preventing home invasions?
  • Get a dog
  • Upgrade your deadbolts to Class 1 locks and install reinforced strike plates
  • Ensure windows can't be jimmied open (eg if you have horizontal sliders, put a wooden dowel in the track)
  • Install motion-sensing lights around exterior doors/gates
  • Install anti-break film on windows
A defensive weapon is a last resort. Better to prevent someone from getting inside in the first place. The vast majority of burglaries are crimes of opportunity—if you don't make yourself an easy target, they'll probably move on.
+1

I would add visible cameras on all entrances/exits.

All of these suggestions are far better than owning a gun. I'm not anti-gun either; I was once a gun owner (for sport shooting, no harm to animals; had to give up guns when I moved abroad), and even though I was well trained in firearm use and firearm safety I still kept my weapon disassembled, locked, and ammo separated while at home. If someone can get through all of the steps above before the police arrive, my gun probably isn't going to do much, and I figure the liability of having an easily accessible firearm wasn't worth it. Your mileage might vary... In a rural location far from police or something it might be advisable with proper training.

For a weapon, if it comes to that, I agree with a post above that a high output flashlight is a good one, and not dangerous if in the hands of a child. However, be careful here. Stunning someone who is wielding a gun may incentivise them to fire on you or your family. It's rare that a burglar just fires on someone unprovoked.
vu8
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by vu8 »

The best solution
1 move to a gated community

2 Move to a safer country such as Monaco, Singapore, New Zealand or Canada
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camillus
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by camillus »

I'm glad a gun is not an option. The way I read things, the gun presents increased risk to your family in terms of suicide, homicide, or accident.

I suggest looking at the totality of risks facing you statistically. Work the list from the top down. For example, what's your cholesterol? How often do you go for walks? Do you wear a bike helmet? How much tread on your tires? etc.

That, or nunchucks.
momvesting
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by momvesting »

I always thought if I built a secure home that I would like to have hidden speakers with realistic sounds like sirens approaching, a helicopter overhead, the sound of a magazine being loaded and a round being chambered, doors opening/closing, etc. that could be set up to start automatically to scare away anyone who entered the house.
motorcyclesarecool
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by motorcyclesarecool »

Have you considered wasp & hornet killer spray? Perfectly legal to own everywhere, has a decent range...
Understand that choosing an HDHP is very much a "red pill" approach. Most would rather pay higher premiums for a $20 copay per visit. They will think you weird for choosing an HSA.
oldfort
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by oldfort »

HawkeyePierce wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:57 pm Is your concern preventing home invasions?
  • Get a dog
  • Upgrade your deadbolts to Class 1 locks and install reinforced strike plates
  • Ensure windows can't be jimmied open (eg if you have horizontal sliders, put a wooden dowel in the track)
  • Install motion-sensing lights around exterior doors/gates
  • Install anti-break film on windows
A defensive weapon is a last resort. Better to prevent someone from getting inside in the first place. The vast majority of burglaries are crimes of opportunity—if you don't make yourself an easy target, they'll probably move on.
Getting a dog and taking care of it properly is a lot of work, like having another kid in some ways. I would suggest getting a dog because you want to be a pet owner, not because you think it will be your personal bodyguard.
boglerdude
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by boglerdude »

Motion sensing lights, doorbell cam, pepper spray, bat.
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btq96r
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by btq96r »

What are you worried about- being robbed, and/or being assaulted? The resource needs to match the threat, so if you're worried for your life, you need to be prepared to defend your life. Flashlights and alarm systems don't do that, and a dog is just as vulnerable as you are.

Making yourself the harder target with better locks and windows is worth the investments, but it's a mitigates the threat, doesn't solve it. Lights can be useful as a deterrent, camera's are only useful in the aftermath.

Why is a gun not an option if you're willing to share? Personal philosophy, local laws, risk to children, spouse veto?
grettman
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by grettman »

btq96r wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:04 am What are you worried about- being robbed, and/or being assaulted? The resource needs to match the threat
+1. You are responsible for your safety. Law enforcement is not responsible for ensuring you stay alive so focus on the best tool(s) for the job.
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by grettman »

motorcyclesarecool wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:18 am Have you considered wasp & hornet killer spray? Perfectly legal to own everywhere, has a decent range...
Agreed if OP will face murder hornets but if OP is afraid of an armed intruder an alert system, escape plan and gun are better tools for the job.
Mr. Rumples
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by Mr. Rumples »

I suppose the question is what do you want to do and prevent. Intruders can be deterred by some vicious thorny landscaping - mahonia, holly, roses. Prickly pear cactus practically throw their thorns when disturbed...we had a townhouse and a detached garage on an alley; I planted them by the garage and it was never bothered. You can have an alarm system, a "safe" room; dogs are a good warning system.
Chuck107
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by Chuck107 »

Steel bars on windows and steel reinforced door and frames.
If you want to live like that.
Alas, I find moderation of this forum too restrictive for my tastes, farewell.
coalcracker
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by coalcracker »

I neither own a gun nor enjoy shooting one, but when it comes to self-defense it is a great equalizer. If one is a small, 70 year old female, no weapon I can think of will provide adequate defense against a strong 20-year-old male—except for a gun.
mmcmonster
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by mmcmonster »

camillus wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:18 amI suggest looking at the totality of risks facing you statistically. Work the list from the top down. For example, what's your cholesterol? How often do you go for walks? Do you wear a bike helmet? How much tread on your tires? etc.

That, or nunchucks.
I do like the idea of looking at total risk. Driving a safe car (not just survive an accident, but accident avoidance) is high on my risk. Higher after I got in an accident earlier this year. That's the main reason I always buy new cars, not used. I want the latest safety features available.

In a similar vein, if home invasion ever becomes a serious concern for me, I would seriously look into lowering the chance of invasion (avoidance), such as better locks, visible video security (with a security system placard clearly visible as well), well lit perimeter, not having the most extravagant house on the block, etc. But most importantly, if home invasions start happening in my community, I would get the hell outta Dodge. The most important advantage of being FI is the freedom to leave.

Passive security is something I am okay living with. One of my neighbors always carries a gun (he has a conceal carry permit) when he's out of his house. I think that's an entirely different outlook on society at large, and I refuse to go down that route.

That being said, tail risk is what's being discussed here (I think?).
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jabberwockOG
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by jabberwockOG »

Rule number 1.0 - First be sure you live in an extremely safe neighborhood. If not move immediately.

1. Add a medium to large size dog if you are able and want to be a pet owner.
2. Install motion activated lights at all four corners of your house.
3. Install video camera and doorbells front and back.
4. Install a good quality monitored security system (with battery and cell backup) protecting all doors and windows. Post alarm signs front and back.
5. Obtain one or two high quality tactical flashlights, min 1300+ lumens with strobe capability. Cost $70-120. Don't buy cheap.
6. Obtain one or two 7-9 oz min canister of bear spray. Cost is apprx $50 - Shelf life is apprx 3-4 years. Replace as needed.
7. Close quarters physical defense should be last resort. Baseball bats are often recommended but not easy weapon to use effectively because of awkward weighting. Better is apprx 26 inch to 28 inch length of heavy steel galvanized pipe (Home Depot). Wrap one end with non slip tape for grip. As an alternative, a heavy duty steel bladed machete in 21-26 inch length, makes a good weapon and also has excellent visual power (extra scary looking : )

Just for grins - here a video of a guy I know that is pretty good with a machete style weapon -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wafMJyZe-Uc
Last edited by jabberwockOG on Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ping Pong
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by Ping Pong »

A bow and arrow could be an option.
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Hockey stick.

I was an RA (Resident Advisor) in college and the only pay phone (remember those?) was on my floor and for some reason, people were always vandalizing it. Any noise had me spring up, grab the hockey stick and chase the noise. Several chases ended for me at the dorm door and continued for others who were running through the snow in bare feet to get away.

A hockey stick gives you good reach and is difficult for an opponent to see in the dark. And when the perpetrator turns out to be your son who snuck out to see some girl, you end up with a bruise instead of planning a funeral.
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whodidntante
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by whodidntante »

Dogs are a big investment of time and are always a consideration if you leave on a trip or even just have a long day out. Also, dogs are expensive if you make the choice to provide significant medical care beyond vaccinations, and food is also not cheap. So there is no way I would get one strictly for home defense.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by TomatoTomahto »

whodidntante wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:57 am Dogs are a big investment of time and are always a consideration if you leave on a trip or even just have a long day out. Also, dogs are expensive if you make the choice to provide significant medical care beyond vaccinations, and food is also not cheap. So there is no way I would get one strictly for home defense.
One of our dogs is an 80#+ pit/boxer mix. She is the sweetest dog I’ve ever raised, but she is jacked and her bark can sound ferocious. I hadn’t intended to rescue a large dog, but a side benefit is that she probably does add another layer of deterrent for the bad actors. If you just want audible alerts, our Jack Russell rescue will bark/yip if someone has a nasty thought.

We are in the process of adding security lights and cameras around the house.
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by galawdawg »

annu wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:44 pm Thinking about having some form of safety help at home in case of emergency. Not going to buy guns, looking for any other options....

Have been looking at mace, but looks like they are not reliable and have a shelf life. Any suggestions recommendations will be appreciated.
As a former cop and retired DA, I'd recommend you consider a few things:

1. It is always best to prevent yourself from becoming a victim of crime in the first place. Live in a safe community with a low crime rate. Be aware of your surroundings. Be cautious who you associate with and who you invite into your home. Keep windows and doors well-secured. Install motion sensing security lights and a video surveillance system that will alert you to motion. Install a monitored alarm system with panic buttons in key rooms. Contact your local sheriff's office or police department and ask them for any other crime prevention tips. Meet your neighbors and discuss keeping an eye out for each other. Call 911 to report any suspicious activity.

2. Realize that if the worst case scenario occurs and your home is invaded while someone is at home, you have two options. Fight or flight. A home intruder who does not flee upon discovery poses a significant and imminent threat to your life and the lives of anyone else in the home. Unless you are prepared to use deadly force to protect yourself and your family, your best option is flight. If you attempt to resist a home intruder with less than lethal force, you run a significant risk that the effort will fail and your life will be in peril. Any less than lethal force that requires you to get within lunging distance of an intruder is particularly hazardous.

3. So if you are unwilling or unable to use deadly force to protect yourself and your family from imminent danger, flight gives you the best chance of survival. In this event, pepper spray can be used against an intruder if they are pursuing you or attempting to block your escape. You must be cautious however that you use the spray in a manner that does not cause you or your family members to become incapacitated as well.

4. You can flee from your home if you have alternative means of escape that you can quickly and safely access. Create an escape plan and have a code word you yell to family members to trigger an escape (such as "ESCAPE"). Keep slip-on footwear, a flashlight and a fully charged cell phone near your exit points. Even an older cell phone that no longer has service can be used to call 911. You can also consider creating a safe room in your home that can be quickly accessed in case of intrusion and that can be well-secured sufficient to resist forced entry for at least fifteen minutes. Again, keep a fully charged cell phone in the safe room. If a home invasion occurs, remain in the safe room until police secure your home and you confirm with the 911 dispatcher that it is safe for you to exit.

This is not legal advice and IANYL. But hopefully it provides some food for thought and the basis for some further research.
Carguy85
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by Carguy85 »

whodidntante wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:58 pm It's probably worthwhile to understand the rules of engagement. In my state, I'm not allowed to use lethal force unless a reasonable person would think my life was in danger. I can't even legally injure someone just because they are in my house at 2 am.
That is really unfortunate. When seconds matter, police are only minutes away. Maybe a bucket of rocks for the OP??
Chuck107
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by Chuck107 »

As a side note about mace/bear spray/ any spray type thing,
I think about summer time when the red wasps come out (hate them btw, red terrorists) anyway, Grabbing my favorite spray can of kill'em fast (not an actual product) No matter how hard I try to aim to get it on the first shot I am always off by at least a foot (depending on distance) continuous spray watching the stream and moving it will eventually get it. And that's in daylight and the wasp doesn't know I'm after it (till it gets hit).
I couldn't imagine trying to do that in the dark, You have to get it into the person(s) eyes, not chest, not ear, close doesn't work.
And unlike the wasp, the intruder is trying to avoid anything.
Is it better than nothing? Sure.

galawdawg's post is an excellent one.

When thinking about self protection you don't want to plan to engage in a confrontation as an equal to the assailant.
You have a 50/50 chance if there is only one intruder, probably less than 50% due to the intruder having more experience, no morals etc.
So having a bat, spray, hockey stick, taser, knife is better than nothing, but I am sure whomever does a home invasion will have something as well.
And if there are multiple intruders, there is only one of you.
Alas, I find moderation of this forum too restrictive for my tastes, farewell.
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TxAg
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by TxAg »

HawkeyePierce wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:57 pm Is your concern preventing home invasions?
  • Get a dog
  • Upgrade your deadbolts to Class 1 locks and install reinforced strike plates
  • Ensure windows can't be jimmied open (eg if you have horizontal sliders, put a wooden dowel in the track)
  • Install motion-sensing lights around exterior doors/gates
  • Install anti-break film on windows
A defensive weapon is a last resort. Better to prevent someone from getting inside in the first place. The vast majority of burglaries are crimes of opportunity—if you don't make yourself an easy target, they'll probably move on.
There ya go! Emphasis on lots of lighting.
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TxAg
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by TxAg »

galawdawg wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:15 am
annu wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:44 pm Thinking about having some form of safety help at home in case of emergency. Not going to buy guns, looking for any other options....

Have been looking at mace, but looks like they are not reliable and have a shelf life. Any suggestions recommendations will be appreciated.
As a former cop and retired DA, I'd recommend you consider a few things:

1. It is always best to prevent yourself from becoming a victim of crime in the first place. Live in a safe community with a low crime rate. Be aware of your surroundings. Be cautious who you associate with and who you invite into your home. Keep windows and doors well-secured. Install motion sensing security lights and a video surveillance system that will alert you to motion. Install a monitored alarm system with panic buttons in key rooms. Contact your local sheriff's office or police department and ask them for any other crime prevention tips. Meet your neighbors and discuss keeping an eye out for each other. Call 911 to report any suspicious activity.

2. Realize that if the worst case scenario occurs and your home is invaded while someone is at home, you have two options. Fight or flight. A home intruder who does not flee upon discovery poses a significant and imminent threat to your life and the lives of anyone else in the home. Unless you are prepared to use deadly force to protect yourself and your family, your best option is flight. If you attempt to resist a home intruder with less than lethal force, you run a significant risk that the effort will fail and your life will be in peril. Any less than lethal force that requires you to get within lunging distance of an intruder is particularly hazardous.

3. So if you are unwilling or unable to use deadly force to protect yourself and your family from imminent danger, flight gives you the best chance of survival. In this event, pepper spray can be used against an intruder if they are pursuing you or attempting to block your escape. You must be cautious however that you use the spray in a manner that does not cause you or your family members to become incapacitated as well.

4. You can flee from your home if you have alternative means of escape that you can quickly and safely access. Create an escape plan and have a code word you yell to family members to trigger an escape (such as "ESCAPE"). Keep slip-on footwear, a flashlight and a fully charged cell phone near your exit points. Even an older cell phone that no longer has service can be used to call 911. You can also consider creating a safe room in your home that can be quickly accessed in case of intrusion and that can be well-secured sufficient to resist forced entry for at least fifteen minutes. Again, keep a fully charged cell phone in the safe room. If a home invasion occurs, remain in the safe room until police secure your home and you confirm with the 911 dispatcher that it is safe for you to exit.

This is not legal advice and IANYL. But hopefully it provides some food for thought and the basis for some further research.

Well stated.
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JoMoney
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by JoMoney »

grettman wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:33 am
motorcyclesarecool wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:18 am Have you considered wasp & hornet killer spray? Perfectly legal to own everywhere, has a decent range...
Agreed if OP will face murder hornets but if OP is afraid of an armed intruder an alert system, escape plan and gun are better tools for the job.
Wasp spray debunking: https://youtu.be/9Uy9MnQfk_0
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MillennialFinance19
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by MillennialFinance19 »

jabberwockOG wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:42 am
6. Obtain one or two 7-9 oz min canister of bear spray. Cost is apprx $50 - Shelf life is apprx 3-4 years. Replace as needed.
Make sure you get the bear (also known as OC) spray at has a safety which prevents you from spraying it in your own face. Having been sprayed 2 times, I promise the attacker/burglar would be the least of your worries after this occurs.
For the love of God, stick to your plan!!!
hudson
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by hudson »

annu wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:44 pm Thinking about having some form of safety help at home in case of emergency. Not going to buy guns, looking for any other options....

Have been looking at mace, but looks like they are not reliable and have a shelf life. Any suggestions recommendations will be appreciated.
annu,
It probably doesn't fit all of your criteria, what about a demilled army rifle with a bayonet?
Maybe add this? https://iwainternationalinc.com/m12-distraction-device/
Last edited by hudson on Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
ddurrett896
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by ddurrett896 »

annu wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:44 pm Thinking about having some form of safety help at home in case of emergency. Not going to buy guns, looking for any other options....
Everyone owns a gun. Some people grab their, others make a phone call and wait for it to show up. They are the only thing that makes a 100 pound retiree, equal to a 19 year old gang banger or a car load of guys with baseballs bats.

What type of emergency? There's a big difference between a crackhead breaking into your house at 2am looking for the next fix (Glock 17) and a group of people forcibly trying to gain access to your home (AR15).

If you are still adamant about not having a guns, go on the defense and fortify the house. Only issue here is while it slows people down from coming in, same thing happens when trying to get out...think fire!

Window film:
https://homealarmreport.com/home-securi ... -security/

Door:
https://www.amazon.com/Doorricade-10725 ... 0381&psc=1
egrets
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by egrets »

If I were serious about this and had pots of money, I'd make my house a fortress. I'm sure there are windows unbreakable by the average burglar, etc. Also lots of surveillance stuff, automatic notification of the police. I would be concerned that if the system called the police I might be the one shot, so I would have a panic room and not come out of that until the 911 operator said it was safe and maybe not then. Bring the pets in with you.

A gun has too high a probability of being used against the homeowner, a visitor being accidentally killed, etc.

I don't know that I'd recommend this now, but when I was decades younger and lived elsewhere, the local police department would upon request go over your house and tell you how to make it safer.
Last edited by egrets on Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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MillennialFinance19
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by MillennialFinance19 »

So I'm a pretty big home security buff (including guns). But I'll absolutely admit that is not the only deterrent. Note that I also have a background in security both CONUS and OCONUS and currently work in a related-field.
  • Agree with a poster above that a good neighborhood is first and foremost, if possible
  • Motion activated lights
  • Security cameras or fake ones (mine have the red IR ring that is quite intimidating at night)
  • Big Dog - note, we have a lab, but his bark is extremely intimidating and no one would know he's a lab unless they were watching us
  • Timed exterior lights (this is especially useful when leaving town)
  • Entrance gate if possible/allowed by neighborhood
  • Window alarms (the style you get for pool safety)
  • Good social media behaviors, i.e. avoid drawing attention to your belongings
  • You could get a crossbow if you're not a huge fan of guns, however, you're only going to get one opportunity
  • You can build a safe room. Obviously this is expensive, time intensive, and just difficult in general
If you're really concerned, you could hire a security consultant to review your home and make some recommendations. They're not cheap, but the end result could be pretty positive.
For the love of God, stick to your plan!!!
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Sandtrap
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by Sandtrap »

Great points prior by "millenial".

** Considerations and thoughts to ponder:

1. Home Safety vs Personal Safety vs Personal Safety At Home and/or Outside of the Home
2. Family Safety at Home vs Outside of the Home (personal safety)

1. Property Physical Security Measures (perimeter fence, cameras, deterrents, active (dogs) vs passive (locks, motion lights).
2. Personal Physical Security Measures (weapons, pepper spray, counter-surveilance (be aware, active measures, training).
3. Personal Active Security Measures (martial arts/self defense/combat training, etc)

** Of the above, realize that security and self-defense is foremost a mindset, skillset (consistent training and practice a must), and internal attitude adjustment, and a dynamic relationship between them that is always "on" vs "when needed (idealistic) somewhat like our peripheral vision, always of aware of the (fore example) deer moving in the forest at the edge of our vision at dusk.
* Buying "stuff" is another thing.

All to Common and Unfortunate Examples:
1. Buy a gun and get a CCW permit and stick it in a purse and forget about it. (no mindset, no active ongoing training, etc).
2. Buy pepper spray . . . " .. . . . . "
3. Buy something . . . ." . . . . .. "
4. Take martial arts and/or self defense classes. . watch YouTube Videos of successful unarmed combat defense. . = overconfident that one is prepared for anything and taking a bold confrontational approach. (not good).

1. The lst step to avoiding physical confrontation in public is the mindset that compels one to not park next to a van, to not park next to other cars, to move when parking and noticing another car/van full of suspicious people pulling up next to you. = mindset.

2. The lst step to deterring physical confrontation or conflict at home is to put in place security measures: fence, motion lights, improve locks, etc, and also safety protocols IE: personal and family routines that are security minded.

etc
etc.

There are lot's of opinions and approaches to "security" of any type with a variety of experiences.
This is just a small tiny one.
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tibbitts
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by tibbitts »

All these posts and the OP hasn't been back to explain what the threat is that's supposedly needing to be defended against, and what are the characteristics of the person doing the defending. As always with these threads on Bogleheads, there have been a lot of ideas thrown out that are probably wildly inappropriate for the actual use circumstances.
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windaar
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by windaar »

motorcyclesarecool wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:18 am Have you considered wasp & hornet killer spray? Perfectly legal to own everywhere, has a decent range...
Not perfectly legal - Read the label; it is against federal law to "use this product inconsistent with its labeling" i.e. on a person instead of a wasp.
Nobody knows nothing.
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Sandtrap
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by Sandtrap »

annu wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:44 pm Thinking about having some form of safety help at home in case of emergency. Not going to buy guns, looking for any other options....

Have been looking at mace, but looks like they are not reliable and have a shelf life. Any suggestions recommendations will be appreciated.
What threat are you addressing or concerned about?

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squirm
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by squirm »

annu wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:44 pm Thinking about having some form of safety help at home in case of emergency. Not going to buy guns, looking for any other options....

Have been looking at mace, but looks like they are not reliable and have a shelf life. Any suggestions recommendations will be appreciated.
Someone came into our house late at night a long time ago. I was in bed and I heard him, I grabbed a large knife and was going to stab the dude. I'm pretty big and as I was running towards him with it and yelling every profanity he ran off.

Be prepared to protect your family with whatever you have at a split second.
carolinaman
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by carolinaman »

My dad taught me how to use guns as a youth but I was never comfortable with guns in the house after marriage, especially when our children were young. My wife wanted a gun for safety about 10 years ago so we bought a 38 revolver, took a gun safety class and got concealed carry permits. We live in a nice, quiet suburban area with very little crime. However, we know people in similar settings that have experienced home invasions. I feel pretty safe in our home but it is comforting to have protection if ever needed.

After we got our gun, I realized that we are actually more vulnerable in our cars, especially at night or when traveling. For example, just before we got our first gun, we broke down on the Interstate about 40 miles from home on a Saturday night about 9pm. We were able to pull into a truck weigh station that was closed. It took 3 hours for AAA to send a tow truck. During that time dozens of cars drove thru the weigh station. None of them stopped but we were in a very vulnerable situation. We would have been an easy target for criminals. I bought a second gun for protection that I keep in my car all the time. I pray we will never to have to use either gun.
Dude2
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by Dude2 »

Another vote for cameras, even fake ones, as a deterrent. Video surveillance as an investigative tool has become so prolific, and, with everything being recorded instantly into the cloud, you have to assume criminals will avoid them like the plague -- unless they are dumb kids, etc. that will have a very short career in crime.
Last edited by Dude2 on Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
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OldBallCoach
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by OldBallCoach »

Well I am an all of the above kind of guy, we have alarms, guns, cameras, lighting, electric fence and dogs...by far and away the most expensive part is the dogs...a well trained guard dog will start in the 25k range and thats going cheap. We have two dobermans and they are amazing working dogs, but I do not consider them as pets. My grandkids can play with them with no worries, but given a command its a different story. I like the idea of a dog as a pet and maybe they bark at an intruder or wake you up but after that you are on your own. A nice Louisville Slugger bat will do some good depending on your fitness level. Remember to follow though and always keep the label up for a nice smooth impact. Then rinse and repeat. I respect your no gun stance for yourself and your family. We have many guns and are highy trained in how to use them,,,GOD forbid we ever have to, that would be a very very dark day. Wish you the best my friend.

IF you decide to get a gun, please take training and dont ever let your guard down on storage or handing. EVERY gun is deadly at all times.
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Re: Buying guns not an option, what else

Post by abuss368 »

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