PC Build Thread 2020

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harrychan
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by harrychan »

Can't believe I missed all this action. Just caught this thread. I've been doing my research to build a hackintosh but afraid I would get stuck or end up procrastinating. I think I got the hardware set. Just need to pull the trigger. Alternatively, I found someone who can do it for $300 labor. Would you pay someone to do it for you for that amount?

Decisions decisions.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
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LadyGeek
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

What happens if something breaks? Who pays? Do you take it back to her/him for disassembly / reassembly? You should be charged for the extra labor, not to mention dealing with the frustration of someone who's not in a position to take responsibility for the repair.

I'm sure the person is fine, but suppose something goes wrong the second time, or the repair doesn't work? A normal shop (where you purchased everything from them) would simply take care of it. A 3rd party person would not.

Homebrew computing is a great hobby, but you should be ready to meet all challenges. It's a great way to learn.

This is similar to recommending all-in-one funds for new investors. When they're ready (if...) to go to a three-fund portfolio, they'll do it on their own time and ability. Until then, one fund is fine.
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Brain
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Brain »

Brain wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:07 pm
The CPU will depend on the benchmarks and price/availability of the 5600X. If it lives up to the predictions and costs anywhere near reasonable and I can get one in a timely manner, I'll get that and some 4000 RAM, if the news about Ryzen 3 liking 4000 RAM best are true.

Otherwise, I'll go with the 3700X and some 3600 RAM.
AMD's $299 5600X Spotted Flying Past All Intel CPUs in Single-Threaded Performance

Well, this is promising...

Obviously, it needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but every reports seems to make the Zen 3 chips sound better and better!

And this gives me the distinct impression that the writer already has done a benchmark and it's in line with the reports:
Expect an update to our CPU Benchmark Hierarchy when the review embargo is lifted.
lazydavid
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by lazydavid »

LadyGeek wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:47 am My motherboard is an Asus TUF GAMING X570-Plus. Did you check for BIOS updates? It's the first thing I do after getting the OS working.

FYI - Asus released an update for this board yesterday.

Update: My new build just did an unexpected hard reboot. I'll update the BIOS and proceed cautiously.

Tip: Save all the parts boxes. If anything fails and you need to return an item, you'll have the right box.
My Motherboard is the same (non-wifi version) Yes, updated the BIOS immediately after installing it, and probably one other time. Checked for new every other day or so, only those two were available while it was in the machine. I should have added previously that a clean reinstall of the OS onto a new nVME drive in a different slot did not change the behavior.

I didn't save the boxes, but I'm past the return period, and the RMA for the repair specifically says NOT to use the original box to return it.
ZMonet
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by ZMonet »

Thanks, everyone. After a number of hours, I'm finally back up and running and all my drives work. I needed to update a bunch of drivers but otherwise, everything seems good with the exception of a back fan LED light not seeming to work. I'll somehow struggle through without a rainbow LED fan :)

I removed the m.2 256 GB drive. Is there that much difference in speed between a m.2 drive and a straight SSD drive? I'm not really a gamer, but do run a Plex server that needs transcoding and do some video editing from time to time and thus the next for a more powerful graphics card.
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Independent George
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Independent George »

ZMonet wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:06 pm Thanks, everyone. After a number of hours, I'm finally back up and running and all my drives work. I needed to update a bunch of drivers but otherwise, everything seems good with the exception of a back fan LED light not seeming to work. I'll somehow struggle through without a rainbow LED fan :)

I removed the m.2 256 GB drive. Is there that much difference in speed between a m.2 drive and a straight SSD drive? I'm not really a gamer, but do run a Plex server that needs transcoding and do some video editing from time to time and thus the next for a more powerful graphics card.
The big jump up is between a HDD and an SSD; the jump from SATA to PCIE is really not that noticeable unless you regularly move or compress large files like video.

So, was the problem the m.2 drivers? Was that drive recently added? I'm glad it worked out, but I'm still not sure why the problems happened all of a sudden for you.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by ZMonet »

Independent George wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:16 pm
ZMonet wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:06 pm Thanks, everyone. After a number of hours, I'm finally back up and running and all my drives work. I needed to update a bunch of drivers but otherwise, everything seems good with the exception of a back fan LED light not seeming to work. I'll somehow struggle through without a rainbow LED fan :)

I removed the m.2 256 GB drive. Is there that much difference in speed between a m.2 drive and a straight SSD drive? I'm not really a gamer, but do run a Plex server that needs transcoding and do some video editing from time to time and thus the next for a more powerful graphics card.
The big jump up is between a HDD and an SSD; the jump from SATA to PCIE is really not that noticeable unless you regularly move or compress large files like video.

So, was the problem the m.2 drivers? Was that drive recently added? I'm glad it worked out, but I'm still not sure why the problems happened all of a sudden for you.
Sorry, didn't mean to confuse people. The CyberPower PC, which is the computer I had the problems with and spent a week trying to fix, is now with Microcenter for a diagnosis. I'm guessing it is the CPU since that was the only thing I didn't replace but I'll let them tell me. They are backed up so I won't get the diagnosis for 5-7 days.

My "up and running" computer is the Lenovo Legion 5 Desktop (https://www.costco.com/lenovo-legion-5- ... 71239.html) I just purchased from Costco with the m.2 drive removed and the three hard drives (2 HDD and one SATA SSD) installed in the machine. As LadyGeek said, I had to update some of the drivers but overall I'm very happy with the crossover. I'll likely do a fresh install of Windows at some point just to clean things up, but that will be for a day that might never come when I have more time :)
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

LadyGeek wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:47 am ...Update: My new build just did an unexpected hard reboot. I'll update the BIOS and proceed cautiously.
LadyGeek wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:27 pm ...As for my new build updates - Not only did I update the BIOS, but all of the available Asus Windows 10 drivers - audio, chipset, LAN, RAID. I'm hoping this is a stray "gotcha" from not doing a clean install.
I should mention that you can get detailed information from the Windows Event Logger. There is an insane amount of logging.

From what I could tell, no specific event caused the crash. The only clue was an error message during the next reboot stating that the prior Windows shutdown was not done cleanly. This is symptomatic of a hardware issue. Maybe I should have done a clean install... Hopefully, the new BIOS and Asus driver updates have solved the problem. So far, so good.

============
I'm out of USB 2.0 ports. I'm not worried, as I can swap things out when needed. I don't want to clutter the area with a USB extender.

My dual-boot Linux / Win 10 PC had USB audio via a DAC processor and dedicated headphone amp (Schiit Audio Magni / Modi combo) along with decent quality stereo headphones (audio-technica). The units I have are older than what's shown on the website.

The Linux drivers didn't work with it, so I moved everything to my new build. Very nice.

Now that I have headphones, game on. Factorio is first on the list...
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Independent George
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Independent George »

Speaking of BIOS, I suppose this is a good segue into reminding anyone planning on a Ryzen 5000 build that they will need to update their BIOS to support the new chips. If you're upgrading an existing Ryzen computer, it's a pretty straightforward update that can be done through your existing BIOS. If you're building a wholly new computer (like myself), you'll need to either buy a motherboard with the updated BIOS (which will hopefully be binned by the retailer, but mistakes happen), or you'll need a board with a BIOS flashback button (this is present in most of the MSI and Gigabyte boards, and the higher-tier boards from ASUS and ASRock). Otherwise, you could easily find yourself in a catch-22 where you can't upgrade your BIOS without a CPU, and your fancy new CPU won't work without upgrading your BIOS.

Here's a good primer on updating a Gigabyte board:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb6h-SB6hlw

The process is more or less the same for MSI:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTkXunUAriE

As always, consult your manual before doing anything. I'll be waiting to see if there's good Black Friday pricing, but right now I'm leaning towards a Gigabyte Aorus Pro.
Colorado Guy
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Colorado Guy »

This thread is getting me interested in a new build, but wondering if I would see any significant improvements. Seems like I have been on the PC a lot since retiring. My current machine is 2015 vintage, i7-6700 version, with a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 (I believe the video card is a weak point of my system). While the motherboard has a M.2 SSD slot, it is not filled. I have upgraded to a SSD a couple of years ago, so that helped.

I am looking at a gaming type monitor at the very least (have a 2 monitor system), possibly in the Black Friday events. But doesn't that mean I should get an upgraded video card at the same time?

So, should I consider just a new video card and monitor for now, or go all out for a new build? If I opt for a M.2 SSD, I think that will push me to a new build. Cleaning up the software would be one of my objectives with a new build. My Windows 10 is an upgrade from the original Windows XP or earlier versions, so I have thought of starting fresh with a new copy of windows without dangling bits of code here and there. Also update MS office components.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Independent George »

Colorado Guy wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:42 am This thread is getting me interested in a new build, but wondering if I would see any significant improvements. Seems like I have been on the PC a lot since retiring. My current machine is 2015 vintage, i7-6700 version, with a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 (I believe the video card is a weak point of my system). While the motherboard has a M.2 SSD slot, it is not filled. I have upgraded to a SSD a couple of years ago, so that helped.

I am looking at a gaming type monitor at the very least (have a 2 monitor system), possibly in the Black Friday events. But doesn't that mean I should get an upgraded video card at the same time?

So, should I consider just a new video card and monitor for now, or go all out for a new build? If I opt for a M.2 SSD, I think that will push me to a new build. Cleaning up the software would be one of my objectives with a new build. My Windows 10 is an upgrade from the original Windows XP or earlier versions, so I have thought of starting fresh with a new copy of windows without dangling bits of code here and there. Also update MS office components.
Are you editing videos or gaming? Those are the main GPU-intensive tasks that merit an upgrade. M.2 drives are great, but if you've already got a SATA SSD, it's probably not worth upgrading unless you're currently noticing slow loading or sluggish performance, or you see a particularly tempting price.

The nice thing about PCs is that everything besides the CPU/motherboard are pretty modular - you can upgrade components piecemeal on your current machine, and if that's still not sufficient, you can keep going and replace the rest later.

I would hesitate on the Office update, if for no other reason Microsoft has moved to a software-as-a-service model; instead of paying once for Office 365, you now pay an annual fee even if you are satisfied with the existing build and don't need or want an update. I've got a home use license from 2018 which I'm holding on to for dear life.
Colorado Guy
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Colorado Guy »

Independent George wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:18 pm
Colorado Guy wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:42 am This thread is getting me interested in a new build, but wondering if I would see any significant improvements. Seems like I have been on the PC a lot since retiring. My current machine is 2015 vintage, i7-6700 version, with a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 (I believe the video card is a weak point of my system). While the motherboard has a M.2 SSD slot, it is not filled. I have upgraded to a SSD a couple of years ago, so that helped.

I am looking at a gaming type monitor at the very least (have a 2 monitor system), possibly in the Black Friday events. But doesn't that mean I should get an upgraded video card at the same time?

So, should I consider just a new video card and monitor for now, or go all out for a new build? If I opt for a M.2 SSD, I think that will push me to a new build. Cleaning up the software would be one of my objectives with a new build. My Windows 10 is an upgrade from the original Windows XP or earlier versions, so I have thought of starting fresh with a new copy of windows without dangling bits of code here and there. Also update MS office components.
Are you editing videos or gaming? Those are the main GPU-intensive tasks that merit an upgrade. M.2 drives are great, but if you've already got a SATA SSD, it's probably not worth upgrading unless you're currently noticing slow loading or sluggish performance, or you see a particularly tempting price.

The nice thing about PCs is that everything besides the CPU/motherboard are pretty modular - you can upgrade components piecemeal on your current machine, and if that's still not sufficient, you can keep going and replace the rest later.

I would hesitate on the Office update, if for no other reason Microsoft has moved to a software-as-a-service model; instead of paying once for Office 365, you now pay an annual fee even if you are satisfied with the existing build and don't need or want an update. I've got a home use license from 2018 which I'm holding on to for dear life.
That's helpful, thank you. Question...If I did get a M.2 SSD for the OS and a few programs, can my existing SATA SSD be turned into a non-bootable drive without having to reformat and re-install programs, such as my 2010 MS office? 2010 MS is no longer supported, but works sufficiently for my needs at this time. If so, I have other programs on the SSD that I could just take time to migrate to the M.2 drive.

FYI, my power supply is oversized for this system, may want to downsize that at some point. I don't have any USB-C ports on my case, so far not an issue.

Not editing videos. Gaming? Well, I did re-install Steam this summer. After logging in, I saw I had last been online in 2013. So, not much of a gamer. The one monitor that I would replace, however, does not support the resolution I desire, so a gaming monitor (and maybe a new video card) are still on my list.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

Colorado Guy wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:38 pm FYI, my power supply is oversized for this system, may want to downsize that at some point. I don't have any USB-C ports on my case, so far not an issue.
Downsizing a power supply means it will run hotter - there's less headroom. I would hold-off, especially since you may be assuming that the average power draw of the components should sum up to the power supply rating. The power supply needs to deliver during intermittent demand peaks - which exceed the average. That's why you'll see "suggested" power supply ratings for graphics cards - the manufacturer knows what the card really draws.
Independent George wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:18 pm I would hesitate on the Office update, if for no other reason Microsoft has moved to a software-as-a-service model; instead of paying once for Office 365, you now pay an annual fee even if you are satisfied with the existing build and don't need or want an update. I've got a home use license from 2018 which I'm holding on to for dear life.
Same here with the home use license. I have Office 2016 and Office 2019. Be absolutely sure to save the actual product key in a secure location. The only place you'll find it is on the email that came with the product purchase. If it's been a while, the email link to the Microsoft online transaction may no longer work.

Also, be very sure to have your own copy of the install .exe. When the online transaction link disappears, so does the .exe. I uninstalled / reinstalled Office 2016 when I was preparing to move my SSD to my new build. It turns out that I didn't need to do that, but running the .exe and entering the product key worked fine. Office updated itself during the install.
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sycamore
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by sycamore »

Colorado Guy wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:38 pm ...
That's helpful, thank you. Question...If I did get a M.2 SSD for the OS and a few programs, can my existing SATA SSD be turned into a non-bootable drive without having to reformat and re-install programs, such as my 2010 MS office? 2010 MS is no longer supported, but works sufficiently for my needs at this time. If so, I have other programs on the SSD that I could just take time to migrate to the M.2 drive.

FYI, my power supply is oversized for this system, may want to downsize that at some point. I don't have any USB-C ports on my case, so far not an issue.

Not editing videos. Gaming? Well, I did re-install Steam this summer. After logging in, I saw I had last been online in 2013. So, not much of a gamer. The one monitor that I would replace, however, does not support the resolution I desire, so a gaming monitor (and maybe a new video card) are still on my list.
If you did a fresh install of Windows on a M.2 SSD (C: drive), you can't simply plug in the old SSD (as a D: drive) and have Windows magically know about the applications you'd previously installed. While you could access the D: drive and any data on it, the fresh install of Windows wouldn't "know" about the apps on the D: drive. E.g., if you double clicked on a .xlsx file, Windows wouldn't know to run Excel from your D: drive. You'd have to reinstall Office. Most apps you need to run their installer program for them to work properly, though there are some apps that can be run directly from a drive.

You might have better luck "cloning" your old SSD to the M.2 SSD.
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Independent George
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Independent George »

LadyGeek wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:10 pm Same here with the home use license. I have Office 2016 and Office 2019. Be absolutely sure to save the actual product key in a secure location. The only place you'll find it is on the email that came with the product purchase. If it's been a while, the email link to the Microsoft online transaction may no longer work.
Yeah, I've got the installer & product key backed up in two different local drives plus the cloud, plus as a secure note in my Dashlane account. I believe Office 2019 was the last time you could actually purchase the product instead of merely renting it.

Only in software can you make a product significantly worse, charge more for it, and call it an 'upgrade'. I quit using Quicken entirely when they did it. I truly and genuinely loathe SAS.
Brain
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Brain »

Independent George wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:00 pm
Brain wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:07 pmI'd really like to get a 3060 Ti, but I don't know if it will be announced, let lone released, by late November. All of the 2060S and 2070S's currently available are ridiculously expensive (over $500 for year old tech). Maybe their prices will drop once the 3070's are actually available?

So I had another thought: What if I bought the cheapest RTX that would work for me and run the game, an Asus GeForce RTX 2060 6GB DUAL EVO OC at $309.99?
I'm not as well versed on on GPUs as I am with CPUs, but that card gives me a bit of pause because of the 6GB of VRAM. That is sufficient today, but I suspect it won't age well. Everything I've read indicates that Cyberpunk is a resource hog, but it's all speculation right now. I'd agree that the $500 2070's are a terrible and should be avoided right now. My gut says to spend a little extra and try and find a 3070 (assuming it performs as advertised). The good news is you can afford to wait a few more weeks and see how the supply chain shakes out - it might all be a moot point in a few weeks.
Oh man, this is getting crazy. Cyberpunk 2077 was pushed back three weeks. The 3070 reviews come out two days ago and they're fantastic. Then yesterday, AMD announces the RDNA2 cards and they appear to be pretty darn good, too. They've got ray tracing support and the Smart Access Memory feature sounds like it could be pretty good. But those cards aren't out for another three weeks, either. And who knows what their supply is going to be like.

I'm going to try to get the 3070 FE from Best Buy or MicroCenter at 9a this morning (15 minutes!). If that works, I'll just go with that and be happy for another (hopefully) six more years.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

I've just started Factorio. It's not all that challenging for a high performance video card, but it's many levels above what a built-in motherboard video can supply. The "happy" factor of finally being able to restart PC gaming more than makes up for any regret of waiting for the next best thing.

I'll find something to stress my video card later.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Brain »

Brain wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:46 am
I'm going to try to get the 3070 FE from Best Buy or MicroCenter at 9a this morning (15 minutes!). If that works, I'll just go with that and be happy for another (hopefully) six more years.
Ugh. I had the card in my cart and was in the checkout process when it just kept telling me it was unavailable for shipping. Eventually it sold out and my cart emptied itself. So, no 3070 FE for me today...back to the drawing board.
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Independent George
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Independent George »

I thought yesterday's AMD launch very interesting - not for the raw performance they're claiming, but because of the Smart Access Memory system. The idea is that the Ryzen 5000 series CPUs, when paired with a 500 series motherboard and a 6000 series GPU, will be able to access the GPU's cache directly, removing one of the main bottlenecks to the speed of graphics rendering.

This makes Intel's foray into graphics cards, and Nvidia's proposed purchase of ARM, much more interesting - especially when you consider how the game consoles are already (as I understand it; as a non-engineer, I'm likely getting this extremely wrong) a CPU with a custom integrated graphics architecture built around it. It seems like we're going to be trending towards fully integrated systems competing against each other. Exactly like game consoles, come to think of it. Or Apple.

I'm not sure how I feel about that - it makes sense that there would be a performance boost to it, and Apple has shown that there are major software advantages to not having to support infinite device configurations. But Apple has also shown that making a consumer a slave to the manufacturer's configuration results in major compromises on the hardware front, and their active attempts to kill independent repair seems inevitable given their control of the parts pipeline. I love the modularity of PC building, and having the capacity to upgrade components piecmeal over time. It's how I kept my i7-920 running smoothly for a decade, and how I hope to keep my new system going. I hate how consumer devices have become a disposable commodity that we simply replace after a few years instead of repairing.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by othermike27 »

Independent George wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:05 am But Apple has also shown that making a consumer a slave to the manufacturer's configuration results in major compromises on the hardware front, and their active attempts to kill independent repair seems inevitable given their control of the parts pipeline.
Highly ironic that Apple, "the computer for the rest of us," has worked so hard to lock out third party vendors. This was IBM's approach in the mainframe days when a hardware choice locked the buyer in to one vendor's ecosystem of hardware and software. I hope the trend you spotted of moving to competing fully integrated systems never comes to pass. It would be a regression to the days of IBM and the 7 Dwarfs (later narrowed down to IBM and the BUNCH).
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by othermike27 »

For a home/hobbyist environment, why might I want to run one or more Virtual Machines instead of just more processes on a conventional PC setup? I get that I could use a VM for several different applications (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVQmzaSabEQ) but I don't understand why one would prefer a VM or a containerized solution for some of these uses.

I'm planning a new build and VM support will impact the bill of materials. I plan to use VMs to try out various Linux versions, and maybe to set up a "closed" environment for access to asset-bearing accounts. But a VM for home automation? Or home security? Can somebody enlighten me on the advantages of VMs for these uses?

If your best argument for using a VM is "because I can" that's OK, I understand completely. I have traded cars with even less justification. :D
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

Because I can. :)

Running various flavors of Linux is a good use for a VM. However, several distros have a "try before you buy" option where you can boot and run from a "live" USB drive. That's far less complex than configuring a VM.

For a home / hobbyist (and not into software development), VMs are used to create a safe sandbox for containing malicious software downloaded by your web browser. Surf the web, kill the VM, done.

For home automation / home security, you want the fastest most direct connection to the PC interface. Putting this inside a VM will add a layer of complexity. There's no reason to isolate this functionality from the rest of the OS (the intent of a VM).

Creating a VM will eat a license. Bear in mind that Linux is free. Windows 10 is not free. Google is your friend - " Win 10 VM license".

Several years ago, Microsoft offered a 90 day free VM license for developers. I don't see that offer around any more.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Kruser64 »

Seems like I hit the lotto at Best Buy today and was able to place an order for AMD Ryzen 5 5600X, pickup on 11/14. We shall see. Replacing an Intel 7600k. Have an nvme SSD, new MB by necessity, and some new BeQuiet fans all queued up. Tired of my kids always having more powerful systems than me! New GPU will come eventually to replace 1060 when lower end ones are released (3060 ti?) and supply opens up.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Independent George »

So the thing that really struck me about the 5000 series benchmarks is that they are drawing even less power than the corresponding 3000 CPUs (which were already significantly more power efficient than equivalent Intel CPUs). It's the same 7 nanometer process - just with a far more refined architecture. Better IPC with lower power draw/thermals. I'm glad I waited, though I expect stock to be limited for a while longer.

As much as I think 8C/16T makes far more sense for my use case, the 5800x is really priced terribly. At first, I thought the 5600x was too expensive compared to the 3600, but compared to the Intel 10600K, it's about where it should be. The 5800x just occupies a weird space between the 5600x and 5900x; it might be ok if they were the only two chips in the lineup, but the 5900x gives you twelve cores for just $100 more. The 5900x is actually way underpriced compared to the Intel 10900K; the 5800x wouldn't look so bad if the 5900x were $600 or $650 (both of which would be fair). At $550, I think it's an outright steal.

Weirdly, Amazon doesn't even have a product listing for it - I didn't expect to find it in stock today, but it doesn't even have a product page when you search for it. I'm sure they'll list it eventually, but I found that odd.

I think I'll buy a motherboard from Microcenter & flash the bios this weekend. I'm going to try and hold on to my RX-580 GPU for another year; I'm expecting great things from next year's GPU war. Nvidia and AMD are pretty very evenly matched on that front, so I expect some incredible price/performance in 2021 (especially if Nvidia goes back to TSMC, which won't have to make a bazillion PS5's and X-Boxes next year).
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by othermike27 »

Independent George wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:13 pm So the thing that really struck me about the 5000 series benchmarks is that they are drawing even less power than the corresponding 3000 CPUs (which were already significantly more power efficient than equivalent Intel CPUs). It's the same 7 nanometer process - just with a far more refined architecture. Better IPC with lower power draw/thermals. I'm glad I waited, though I expect stock to be limited for a while longer.

As much as I think 8C/16T makes far more sense for my use case, the 5800x is really priced terribly. At first, I thought the 5600x was too expensive compared to the 3600, but compared to the Intel 10600K, it's about where it should be. The 5800x just occupies a weird space between the 5600x and 5900x; it might be ok if they were the only two chips in the lineup, but the 5900x gives you twelve cores for just $100 more. The 5900x is actually way underpriced compared to the Intel 10900K; the 5800x wouldn't look so bad if the 5900x were $600 or $650 (both of which would be fair). At $550, I think it's an outright steal.

Weirdly, Amazon doesn't even have a product listing for it - I didn't expect to find it in stock today, but it doesn't even have a product page when you search for it. I'm sure they'll list it eventually, but I found that odd.

I think I'll buy a motherboard from Microcenter & flash the bios this weekend. I'm going to try and hold on to my RX-580 GPU for another year; I'm expecting great things from next year's GPU war. Nvidia and AMD are pretty very evenly matched on that front, so I expect some incredible price/performance in 2021 (especially if Nvidia goes back to TSMC, which won't have to make a bazillion PS5's and X-Boxes next year).
Steve Burke of GamersNexus has some interesting things to say about the 5000 series that mostly agree with your take. If you haven't seen them already, check out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x2BYNimNOU for his 5800 review and also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-AanO3Axzk for comments on the 5000 series overall.

For me, as a non-gamer, non-overclocker planning to consolidate 3 desktops and a steadily growing collection of parts into a single desktop machine, I'm waffling about what to do: buy a 3600 now, wait for the anticipated 5600 (non-X) to come out some time next year, or just admit that I'll never need super-speed multi-core/multi-thread capabilities or even a graphics card and instead go with a Ryzen 5 3400G (on sale at Newegg now). Decisions, decisions. Not complaining though...

Edit: forgot to ask - how did your bios flash go?
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

I'd like to mention that I did indeed end up building a complete 'backup' PC from my Lenovo desktop (1 of 2) which was replaced by my new build. It's up and running with Linux Fedora 33. The hard drive was formatted using the Btrfs (B-tree file system), which essentially wipes the disk of all previous information.

This 'backup' PC will either be a replacement for my remaining dual-boot desktop (if it fails - same hardware) or given to someone needing a computer - whichever occurs first.

My new build is happily crunching away on my Folding@home project. Both the CPU and GPU are utilized. The loading is balanced, as there's only a minor slowdown when I do "normal" stuff like email, web browser, or Quicken.

Aside from gaming, fractals are another area of interest. I just installed a new challenge: Ultra Fractal: Advanced Fractal Software for Windows and macOS It's the best program out there. I've used it before and splurged for the Creative Edition. A new 4k monitor is now on my "purchase soon" list.

I'm deferring on Microsoft Flight Simulator. In addition to spending time for Factorio and fractals, the need to have an Xbox live account to run just turned me off. If anyone is looking for an accurate flight simulator and doesn't care about the imagery, give X-Plane 11 Flight Simulator a try. It's been around for a very long time and has a large support community. (I played with it a number of years ago.)
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by deskjockey »

LadyGeek wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:35 am I'm deferring on Microsoft Flight Simulator. In addition to spending time for Factorio and fractals, the need to have an Xbox live account to run just turned me off. If anyone is looking for an accurate flight simulator and doesn't care about the imagery, give X-Plane 11 Flight Simulator a try. It's been around for a very long time and has a large support community. (I played with it a number of years ago.)
You may also want to look at Digital Combat Simulator World for a very realistic flight simulator.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Independent George »

othermike27 wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:59 amSteve Burke of GamersNexus has some interesting things to say about the 5000 series that mostly agree with your take. If you haven't seen them already, check out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x2BYNimNOU for his 5800 review and also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-AanO3Axzk for comments on the 5000 series overall.

For me, as a non-gamer, non-overclocker planning to consolidate 3 desktops and a steadily growing collection of parts into a single desktop machine, I'm waffling about what to do: buy a 3600 now, wait for the anticipated 5600 (non-X) to come out some time next year, or just admit that I'll never need super-speed multi-core/multi-thread capabilities or even a graphics card and instead go with a Ryzen 5 3400G (on sale at Newegg now). Decisions, decisions. Not complaining though...
I think you would do well with a 3400G on a B550 motherboard, which would leave you with plenty of room for later upgrades if you feel the need.

I saw that video - I think a lot of people have come to the same conclusion. It comes down to AMD basically bracketing Intel on pricing & performance - the 3000 series offers a much better value for compared to 10th gen Intel, and the 5000 series is just better in every metric. Maybe Rocket Lake will force a price drop on the 5800, but I dont' feel like waiting four months to save $50-$100. If Intel doesn't get 10 nm out soon, we're looking at AMD dominating the marketplace the way Intel has this past decade. Tom at MLID (who's been spot on with his reporting) has much to say on the subject.

People tend to scoff at power efficiency in a desktop, but the way I see it, a lower TDP equates to less cooling needed and less noise. And it means I don't have to buy a new PSU just to upgrade components (*cough* Nvidia *cough*). I ordered some new Noctua PWM fans for my case

I also managed to find the Ryzen 5000 page on Amazon - I still find it weird that it doesn't show up on a search, though. I had to go to their AMD store and follow links.
Edit: forgot to ask - how did your bios flash go?
Seamlessly - Microcenter offered to flash the BIOS for me in the store; I didn't have time to wait for them to finish yesterday, but went back and just picked it up this morning. Hopefully that means it will be plug & play when I pick up the CPU, but we'll see. The board I got (Gigabyte Aorus Master) has a BIOS flashback button, but it was nice to not have to use it (though it remains an option if I can't get the CPU to post)

Looking over my build spreadsheet, I realize this going to be an absurd system compared to my i7-920. It's probably not realistic to expect another eleven years out of it, I do hope that buying the more expensive CPU means I can stretch it to 6-8 years with one GPU upgrade in the future.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Independent George »

It's interesting how different enthusiasts are from the larger market - Tom's reports that in Q3, AMD reached its highest CPU market share in over a decade: a whopping 20%.

I know that's genuinely a big deal and likely to continue growing for several years. It's just that if you only pay attention to the enthusiasts on social media, you'd think AMD controlled the entire market since Ryzen 2000 (Zen+); in fact, Intel still sells 4x as many processors. The DIY PC builders lining up to buy Ryzen 5000 CPUs are a distinct minority - most desktop sales are from parents buying a gaming tower from Walmart or Costco, and AMD is still regarded as the 'discount' brand. And that's just within the desktop market - laptops vastly outsell desktops.

I'm trying to think of other goods or services where something like this holds true - the most knowledgeable consumers buying one product, while the broader consumer market mostly pays more for worse performance. Funny enough, the only analogy I can think of is passive investing up until a few years ago - a smaller number of knowledgeable investors were buying & holding index funds at 0.10%, while the vast majority were paying advisor fees on top of AUM fees for the 'hot' mutual funds up until probably the mid/late 2000s.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

LadyGeek wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:35 am ..My new build is happily crunching away on my Folding@home project. Both the CPU and GPU are utilized. The loading is balanced, as there's only a minor slowdown when I do "normal" stuff like email, web browser, or Quicken...
I may have spoken too soon. This morning, my new build was not so happy as it unexpectedly did a hard crash shutdown. Deep-diving into the Windows event viewer showed that it was giving Bug Check error every time I did a shutdown.

The first thing I did was update the motherboard to the latest BIOS, 11/4/20. As soon as that was done, Windows booted with a KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED error and rebooted. The next boot was successful.

The built-in Windows Memory Diagnostic tool found no errors (How to check your Windows 10 PC for memory problems).

However, running "sfc/scannow" from a command window (as administrator) found and fixed corrupted files. (KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED Windows 10).

I'm seriously hoping I don't have a hardware problem. This seems like a driver problem. I'm going to do a clean install and hope that it fixes the problem. I'll monitor the Event Viewer to see if the Bug Check errors recur (and watch for new errors).
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Independent George »

LadyGeek wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:07 pm I may have spoken too soon. This morning, my new build was not so happy as it unexpectedly did a hard crash shutdown. Deep-diving into the Windows event viewer showed that it was giving Bug Check error every time I did a shutdown.

The first thing I did was update the motherboard to the latest BIOS, 11/4/20. As soon as that was done, Windows booted with a KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED error and rebooted. The next boot was successful.

The built-in Windows Memory Diagnostic tool found no errors (How to check your Windows 10 PC for memory problems).

However, running "sfc/scannow" from a command window (as administrator) found and fixed corrupted files. (KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED Windows 10).

I'm seriously hoping I don't have a hardware problem. This seems like a driver problem. I'm going to do a clean install and hope that it fixes the problem. I'll monitor the Event Viewer to see if the Bug Check errors recur (and watch for new errors).
Shoot. Did you do previously perform a clean install after cloning it from your old drive? I'm wondering if the problem is leftover junk from Windows thinking it's still attached to your old motherboard.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

No, I just cloned my old SSD install to the new NVMe drive* and rebooted. I took chance with that, but I was expecting it to fail immediately with an error message. When it booted OK, I thought it had worked. Guess not.

I'm amazed how much stuff is logged. When things break, it's nice to have that info.

BTW, the bug check error was creating a 1 GB dump file in the Windows directory. Every time. Fortunately, it was the same filename so it didn't take up any more than 1 GB of drive space (file overwritten).

It might take a few days, but I'll report back what happens. I'm really, really, hoping it's a software problem.

* NVMe == Non-Volatile Memory Express
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by killjoy2012 »

What motherboards are early adopters of the AMD 5XXX CPUs using? The price of the CPU is one thing. I about had a heart attack when browsing the higher end x570 MBs as some are pushing $600 for the MB alone.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Peculiar_Investor »

LadyGeek wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:56 am No, I just cloned my old SSD install to the new NVMe drive* and rebooted. I took chance with that, but I was expecting it to fail immediately with an error message. When it booted OK, I thought it had worked. Guess not.
Whenever I do a new build I always start with a new, fresh OS installation. It provides the opportunity to eliminate legacy "stuff" that has accumulated over the years. The downside it having to re-install applications again, particularly older applications still in use where you may no longer have the original media and/or serial numbers.

Back in August I did exactly that, replacing an aging Dell Vostro 430 desktop that had an Intel i7 processor, Samsung 860 EVO SSD and NVidia 1050Ti video card. For most applications and workflow the Dell was powerful enough, but it was time for a new PC, particularly for photo editing (Lightroom Classic).

I used The Ultimate PC Build for Photography Needs and Photoshop CPU performance: Intel Core X-10000 vs AMD Threadripper 3rd Gen among others for reviews and ideas for my new build.

My new build is:
  • Fractal Design Focus G mid-tower case
  • AMD Ryzen 5 3600 processor
  • Vengeance LPX 32GB DDR4 3200Mhz CL16 Dual Channel Kit (2x16GB)
  • Samsung 970 EVO Plus MVME M2 SSD (1 TB)
  • Gigabyte X570 AORUS ELITE motherboard
  • Asus GTX1660S OC video card
  • Corsair RMx Series RM650x 80+ power supply
I don't play any games but wanted to maintain future component upgrade paths, so there were some cost compromises made, particularly because Canadian hardware prices are generally higher than US prices, even after accounting for the CAD-USD exchange rate.

I started with a fresh Windows 10 Pro install and transferred files from the old PC. I've been re-installing applications and adjusting settings as per my previous preferences. I'm down to three legacy applications that are used less frequently left to install. Trying to relocate serial numbers or media has been a bit of a challenge. Otherwise the new PC had been great and met all expectations.

The new Windows 10 Pro and applications install has taken some extra time but has resulted in a cleaner machine, i.e. far fewer Microsoft Visual C++ 20xx Redistributable(s), and cured some oddball and occasional problems that plagued the old PC. Once everything is completely migrated the Dell Vostro will likely become the next Linux (CentOS) server on my network.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Independent George »

LadyGeek wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:56 am No, I just cloned my old SSD install to the new NVMe drive* and rebooted. I took chance with that, but I was expecting it to fail immediately with an error message. When it booted OK, I thought it had worked. Guess not.

I'm amazed how much stuff is logged. When things break, it's nice to have that info.

BTW, the bug check error was creating a 1 GB dump file in the Windows directory. Every time. Fortunately, it was the same filename so it didn't take up any more than 1 GB of drive space (file overwritten).

It might take a few days, but I'll report back what happens. I'm really, really, hoping it's a software problem.
That sounds like software - if it were hardware, I'd expect it to either not post, or to blue screen when the power spiked (like when you start folding). If you're getting a 1GB file dump on shutdown, that sounds like Windows is trying (and failing) to install an update on shutdown. I had once had an incredibly annoying Windows update error infinite loop - basically, Windows failed to load an update on shutdown, and by the next morning, it kept trying and failing to load the update on startup. The only way out was a clean install of windows.

Once I get my CPU, I think I'm going to deactivate my Windows account from my old desktop first before trying my old drive out on the new system, then re-activate if it loads on the new system before cloning.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Independent George »

killjoy2012 wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:44 am What motherboards are early adopters of the AMD 5XXX CPUs using? The price of the CPU is one thing. I about had a heart attack when browsing the higher end x570 MBs as some are pushing $600 for the MB alone.
The $600 motherboards are for hard core overclockers; there's no reason for a normal person to use those. I'd also argue that X570 is likewise not necessary; the main feature is that you get PCIE 4.0 on all of the expansion slots and M.2 drives, whereas B550 has it only on the first expansion slot and first M.2, which is more than sufficient for most people (especially since I think 4.0 really only matters for a GPU, and is actually worse for the M.2 because of heat). X570 boards also have a chipset fan on it to cool those 4.0 lanes you won't be using, which adds more noise and another point of failure.

I actually did splurge on the Gigabyte Aorus Master, which was on sale for $250. I did this mainly because I plan on holding this desktop for years, and it comes with a third M.2 slot, six USB 3.2 Gen 2 (God I hate that naming convention) ports in the rear, and integral WiFi 6 (because I expect to move in the next few years, and I won't know where the modem would be located in the new home). I figure that gives me the most future-proofing potential, but is probably overkill.

I think the MSI B550 A-Pro ($140) is more than enough for most users - if you go back to my original post starting this thread, that was actually what I originally intended to use on this build before deciding to splurge. The next step up would be the ASUS Tuf Gaming Plus at $160, or the Gigabyte Aorus Pro at $180 - all are good boards, but you get progressively better features like 2.5 GB LAN, a rear type-C ports, and more 3.2 Gen 2 ports. All of the boards I mentioned have BIOS flashback.

This is totally petty & superficial, but I purposely avoided ASUS because I hate the 'TUF Gaming' branding on the board, and really don't want to see 'Republic of Gamers' on the post screen every time I boot. I've seen that on their laptops, and it would annoy me every time I booted my PC in the morning. They make great components, but I just hate that style of branding and am willing to pay money to avoid it.

ETA: Paul's Hardware has several really good motherboard guides:
My Top 5 Favorite Motherboard Features
How to Choose The Right Motherboard
What Does a $700 Motherboard Have That a $200 Doesn't?
What Motherboard Features Are Actually Useful vs Overhyped?
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by sycamore »

Independent George wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:04 am
killjoy2012 wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:44 am What motherboards are early adopters of the AMD 5XXX CPUs using? The price of the CPU is one thing. I about had a heart attack when browsing the higher end x570 MBs as some are pushing $600 for the MB alone.
The $600 motherboards are for hard core overclockers; there's no reason for a normal person to use those. I'd also argue that X570 is likewise not necessary; the main feature is that you get PCIE 4.0 on all of the expansion slots and M.2 drives, whereas B550 has it only on the first expansion slot and first M.2, which is more than sufficient for most people (especially since I think 4.0 really only matters for a GPU, and is actually worse for the M.2 because of heat). X570 boards also have a chipset fan on it to cool those 4.0 lanes you won't be using, which adds more noise and another point of failure.
...
Based on what I've read, I agree the B550 will work out fine for most users; that's what I expect to buy.

Regarding the bolded part about PCIe 4.0 being worse (than 3.0) for M.2 because of heat, is it safe to say that an PCI 3.0 M.2 drive in a 4.0 slot would not have heat problems? I.e., using lower-speed 3.0 means you avoid the heat issue?
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Independent George »

sycamore wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:33 pm Based on what I've read, I agree the B550 will work out fine for most users; that's what I expect to buy.

Regarding the bolded part about PCIe 4.0 being worse (than 3.0) for M.2 because of heat, is it safe to say that an PCI 3.0 M.2 drive in a 4.0 slot would not have heat problems? I.e., using lower-speed 3.0 means you avoid the heat issue?
Yes, you're fine using a PCIE 3.0 drive in a 4.0 slot; that's what I intend to do with my system. You'll be limited to 3.0 speeds (which is more than plenty fast) and won't generate the heat that comes with 4.0 (to say nothing of the cost of 4.0 drives right now).

Really, it's not so much that the heat from 4.0 is unmanageable (most drives come with a heat sink), as that it's not worth the extra cost and effort. For example, look at the heatsink on this Sabrent Rocket. Now look at where the first M.2 slot is on most motherboards - it's right next to the first GPU expansion slot. It's very likely that heatsink will interfere with a GPU. Once you factor in that the cheapest 4.0 drive is about twice the cost of a mid-tier 3.0 drive (or a high-tier on sale), I just don't think it's worth the tradeoffs.

This won't last forever, though; I fully expect that within another 1-2 years, 4.0 drives will mature to the point where it is both cost effective and better engineered for heat management. When that happens, I fully intend to buy one and make it my new primary drive, and move my documents to my current 3.0 drive. Until that happens, though, I'm sticking with 3.0.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by dumbmoney »

Independent George wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:57 pm I think you would do well with a 3400G on a B550 motherboard, which would leave you with plenty of room for later upgrades if you feel the need.
Good idea except AMD and the motherboard makers say it's not supported.

https://www.amd.com/en/chipsets/b550

*Note: AMD B550 chipset is not compatible with AMD Ryzen™ 5 3400G & AMD Ryzen™ 3 3200G processors.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by othermike27 »

dumbmoney wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:52 pm
Independent George wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:57 pm I think you would do well with a 3400G on a B550 motherboard, which would leave you with plenty of room for later upgrades if you feel the need.
Good idea except AMD and the motherboard makers say it's not supported.

https://www.amd.com/en/chipsets/b550

*Note: AMD B550 chipset is not compatible with AMD Ryzen™ 5 3400G & AMD Ryzen™ 3 3200G processors.
RIght. For some interesting comments on B550 vs. X570 boards, see JayzTwoCents: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGtgGw7roUY

For clarification on which board supports what processors, see the segment that starts at about 5:51 of the video. If I go with the 3400G, it will be paired with a B450 board. However, that route may be problematic since some suppliers are now showing "out of stock" on the 3400G, and may not restock. So now I'm drifting back to doing a 3600 with a B550 or X570, and a toss-in cheapo graphics card chosen mostly for its ability to avoid generating heat and noise.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

Independent George wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:48 am That sounds like software - if it were hardware, I'd expect it to either not post, or to blue screen when the power spiked (like when you start folding). If you're getting a 1GB file dump on shutdown, that sounds like Windows is trying (and failing) to install an update on shutdown. I had once had an incredibly annoying Windows update error infinite loop - basically, Windows failed to load an update on shutdown, and by the next morning, it kept trying and failing to load the update on startup. The only way out was a clean install of windows.

Once I get my CPU, I think I'm going to deactivate my Windows account from my old desktop first before trying my old drive out on the new system, then re-activate if it loads on the new system before cloning.
I just did a clean install from USB. So what could possibly go wrong? How about accidentally deleting the drive partition containing my backup data?

Before I did the install, I copied the complete user profile to my SATA drive (second internal SSD). At boot, I entered the product key, then selected "Advanced" install --> Custom, then formatting the primary drive partition (intended for the NVMe drive) - or so I thought.

The installer gave me some grief about the formatting, but I figured it out and formatted the NVMe drive. It was then unable to complete the installation because it couldn't reboot. I rebooted and it jumped into Windows setup to finish. The installer wouldn't proceed without an email address, so I gave it a bogus email and password which it promptly locked out. The next screen was a local login / password, which I entered and am using now.

- Windows says my license is activated with a digital license. I didn't change any hardware and it has the product key, which is probably all it needed.
- I did a full windows update, including a feature update to the latest 20H2.
- The default install powers down the PC as if it was a laptop. After restarting the PC a few times, I configured the power settings to "Never" when plugged in. You might want to do this first thing.

- I then found out why my secondary drive wasn't showing in Windows Explorer. :oops: I formatted the drive and starting pulling files from my external drive and other desktop (multiboot Linux / Win 10). I've got mostly everything I need, but I may pull a few things from my online backup. Now, I just need to spend a lot of time installing and configuring everything.

The first thing I noticed was that the mouse movement was extremely smooth. Before the clean install, mouse movement was stuttering. That alone told me there must have been a lot of cruft interfering with the mouse driver. It's gone.

Device Manager shows a nice, clean driver install of everything I expected. There are a few unknown PCI devices, but I'll get to that later.

Event Viewer has no Bug Check errors. The only critical errors are kernel-power when I reset the PC due to the power down.
Independent George wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:04 am This is totally petty & superficial, but I purposely avoided ASUS because I hate the 'TUF Gaming' branding on the board, and really don't want to see 'Republic of Gamers' on the post screen every time I boot. I've seen that on their laptops, and it would annoy me every time I booted my PC in the morning. They make great components, but I just hate that style of branding and am willing to pay money to avoid it.
Did you realize that you can disable the boot logo in BIOS? That won't help with the motherboard branding, but at least you won't be blasted with the brand name every time you boot. Asus also supplied a bunch of decals that are now plastered on the outside of my case.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by killjoy2012 »

Independent George wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:04 am
killjoy2012 wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:44 am What motherboards are early adopters of the AMD 5XXX CPUs using? The price of the CPU is one thing. I about had a heart attack when browsing the higher end x570 MBs as some are pushing $600 for the MB alone.
The $600 motherboards are for hard core overclockers; there's no reason for a normal person to use those. I'd also argue that X570 is likewise not necessary; the main feature is that you get PCIE 4.0 on all of the expansion slots and M.2 drives, whereas B550 has it only on the first expansion slot and first M.2, which is more than sufficient for most people (especially since I think 4.0 really only matters for a GPU, and is actually worse for the M.2 because of heat). X570 boards also have a chipset fan on it to cool those 4.0 lanes you won't be using, which adds more noise and another point of failure.

I actually did splurge on the Gigabyte Aorus Master, which was on sale for $250.
Yea, I started looking at the MSI Godlike. Looked like it had some great specs until I started pricing it out. My Asus-based i7-3770k w/ r9 390 GPU is getting long in the tooth. I had to hack the BIOS to get NVME support, but it's past time to upgrade. Was waiting for the Ryzen 5xxx CPUs and would likely spend the $ for the x570 (but not $600!). I do game.

I also need to build a home server, likely based on EPYC platform in a 24 disk Supermicro rack mount case.

Going to be an expensive Fall.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Independent George »

dumbmoney wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:52 pm
Good idea except AMD and the motherboard makers say it's not supported.

https://www.amd.com/en/chipsets/b550

*Note: AMD B550 chipset is not compatible with AMD Ryzen™ 5 3400G & AMD Ryzen™ 3 3200G processors.
Well crap. Just another perfectly good idea being ruined by it being completely impossible.
dwc13
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:51 pm

Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by dwc13 »

dumbmoney wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:52 pm
Independent George wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:57 pm I think you would do well with a 3400G on a B550 motherboard, which would leave you with plenty of room for later upgrades if you feel the need.
Good idea except AMD and the motherboard makers say it's not supported.

https://www.amd.com/en/chipsets/b550

*Note: AMD B550 chipset is not compatible with AMD Ryzen™ 5 3400G & AMD Ryzen™ 3 3200G processors.
Ryzen 5 3400G & Ryzen 3 3200G are Zen+ processors, not Zen 2. Thanks again, AMD, for a lousy naming convention; all other desktop Ryzen 3xxx CPUs are Zen 2 offerings. Just for that, I'm calling them APUs.

While not officially supported by AMD, some users have apparently managed to get a Ryzen 5 3400G to work with a B550 motherboard. If successful, that allows the user to build a PC at a lower initial cost and possibly upgrade (CPU & dedicated GPU using the same MB) at a later date. If you're thinking about trying this combination for a PC build, do your homework first. Also remember you're likely on your own for troubleshooting (if needed), since Zen+ APUs with the B550 chipset is not officially supported by AMD.

https://www.techpowerup.com/269145/amd- ... casso-cpus
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/h ... rix_b550i/
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Independent George
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Location: Chicago, IL, USA

Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Independent George »

One of the things that has kept me away from AIO coolers is the issue of maintenance - I don't like the idea of discarding and replacing an entire cooler once you get fluid permeation (which is inevitable), but all of the coolers are not designed to be user serviceable - in fact, re-filling the radiator actually voids the warranty on most coolers (not to mention the complexity of the process in the first place). Besides the practical concerns of having to buy a new cooler every 7-8 years, I have a lot of trouble with the idea of planned obsolescence itself. It's one of the reasons I dislike Apple computers - I greatly prefer rather maintain my equipment than replace it when it fails.

Enter the Be Quiet Pure Loop cooler, which comes with a spare bottle of coolant and a recommendation to top it off every two years. I'd have preferred having a display which showed the actual coolant levels than a 'schedule', but I expect the cost and complexity of it might have been cost prohibitive - because the radiator can have different orientations, you'd need to have to engineer it to be usable in all configurations to ensure it is used correctly and reduce RMA servicing.

Putting the pumps in line with the tubes is primarily about getting around the Asutek patent (all AIOs with a pump located in the CPU block have to pay royalties for the design, assuming it's not manufactured by Asutek in the first place), but it appears to have noise-reduction benefits since the pumps are now vibrating on a flexible tube instead of a metal plate. I don't know what effect that has on the durability -

I'm not planning on buying this - maintenance is only one issue I have with AIOs, and I generally prefer somebody else test out a new design to see if there are any defects to the design that got past qa. I just found this design interesting, and worth watching if I ever decide to adopt an AIO. Early reviews can be found here and here, but obviously they haven't had it long enough yet to speak to long-term use. At $105 for the 280mm cooler, it's also very competitively priced.
AKBTX14
Posts: 97
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by AKBTX14 »

Interesting thread.

I am also looking to build 2 systems. The first one is for Gaming that will use an existing VGA GeForce GTX 1650 SUPER SC ULTRA until RTX 3070/3080 become widely available. The second one will be build using the 1650 Super GPU for office/light Photoshop.

I have not yet decided CPU(Intel vs AMD ) for the second build.

But here is the build thought for first build (looking for BF sales this month). Looking for a review Thanks!

CPU
Intel Core i7-10700K Comet Lake 8-Core 3.8 GHz LGA 1200 125W Desktop Processor w/ Intel UHD Graphics 630
https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i7-10 ... 6819118123

CPU Cooler
NZXT Kraken X63 280mm - RL-KRX63-01 - AIO RGB CPU Liquid Cooler - Rotating Infinity Mirror Design - Improved Pump - Powered By CAM V4 - RGB Connector - Aer P 140mm Radiator Fans (2 Included)
https://www.newegg.com/nzxt-liquid-cool ... 6835146067

Motherboard
MSI MPG Z490 Gaming Edge WiFi ATX Gaming Motherboard (10th Gen Intel Core, LGA 1200 Socket, DDR4, CF, Dual M.2 Slots, USB 3.2 Gen 2, Wi-Fi 6, DP/HDMI, Mystic Light RGB)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0876J8436?ta ... th=1&psc=1

Memory
G.SKILL Trident Z RGB (For AMD) 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C18D-16GTZRX
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288 ... 6820232728

Future GPU (One of these when available)
EVGA GeForce RTX 3070 XC3 BLACK GAMING Video Card, 08G-P5-3751-KR, 8GB GDDR6, iCX3 Cooling, ARGB LED
https://www.newegg.com/evga-geforce-rtx ... -_-Product

ASUS TUF Gaming GeForce RTX 3080 TUF-RTX3080-O10G-GAMING Video Card
https://www.newegg.com/asus-geforce-rtx ... klink=true

Future Monitor (when GPU becomes available)
ASUS TUF Gaming VG279QM 27" Full HD 1920 x 1080 1 ms (GTG) 280Hz (Overclocking) 2 x HDMI, DisplayPort G-SYNC ELMB SYNC HDR Built-in Speakers LED Backlit IPS Gaming Monitor
https://www.newegg.com/black-asus-tuf-g ... klink=true

Case
NZXT H510 Elite - CA-H510E-W1 - Premium Mid-Tower ATX Case PC Gaming Case - Dual-Tempered Glass Panel - Front I/O USB Type-C Port - Vertical GPU Mount - Integrated RGB Lighting - White/Black
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07T7L875Z?ta ... th=1&psc=1

Power Supply
ASUS Republic of Gamers STRIX 750W 80 Plus Gold Modular ATX Power Supply
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... dular.html

Existing Components
Existing GPU to be used (until RTX3080 is purchased)
EVGA GeForce GTX 1650 SUPER SC ULTRA GAMING Video Card, 04G-P4-1357-KR, 4GB GDDR6, Dual Fan, Metal Backplate
https://www.newegg.com/evga-geforce-gtx ... 6814487482

Existing Monitor
Asus VG245H 24 inchFull HD 1080p 1ms Dual HDMI Eye Care Console Gaming Monitor with FreeSync/Adaptive Sync, Black, 24-inch
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01JG ... UTF8&psc=1
Dyloot
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:04 am

Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Dyloot »

AKBTX14 wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:37 pm Interesting thread.

I am also looking to build 2 systems. The first one is for Gaming that will use an existing VGA GeForce GTX 1650 SUPER SC ULTRA until RTX 3070/3080 become widely available. The second one will be build using the 1650 Super GPU for office/light Photoshop.

I have not yet decided CPU(Intel vs AMD ) for the second build.

But here is the build thought for first build (looking for BF sales this month). Looking for a review Thanks!

CPU
Intel Core i7-10700K Comet Lake 8-Core 3.8 GHz LGA 1200 125W Desktop Processor w/ Intel UHD Graphics 630
https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i7-10 ... 6819118123

CPU Cooler
NZXT Kraken X63 280mm - RL-KRX63-01 - AIO RGB CPU Liquid Cooler - Rotating Infinity Mirror Design - Improved Pump - Powered By CAM V4 - RGB Connector - Aer P 140mm Radiator Fans (2 Included)
https://www.newegg.com/nzxt-liquid-cool ... 6835146067

Motherboard
MSI MPG Z490 Gaming Edge WiFi ATX Gaming Motherboard (10th Gen Intel Core, LGA 1200 Socket, DDR4, CF, Dual M.2 Slots, USB 3.2 Gen 2, Wi-Fi 6, DP/HDMI, Mystic Light RGB)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0876J8436?ta ... th=1&psc=1

Memory
G.SKILL Trident Z RGB (For AMD) 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C18D-16GTZRX
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288 ... 6820232728

Future GPU (One of these when available)
EVGA GeForce RTX 3070 XC3 BLACK GAMING Video Card, 08G-P5-3751-KR, 8GB GDDR6, iCX3 Cooling, ARGB LED
https://www.newegg.com/evga-geforce-rtx ... -_-Product

ASUS TUF Gaming GeForce RTX 3080 TUF-RTX3080-O10G-GAMING Video Card
https://www.newegg.com/asus-geforce-rtx ... klink=true

Future Monitor (when GPU becomes available)
ASUS TUF Gaming VG279QM 27" Full HD 1920 x 1080 1 ms (GTG) 280Hz (Overclocking) 2 x HDMI, DisplayPort G-SYNC ELMB SYNC HDR Built-in Speakers LED Backlit IPS Gaming Monitor
https://www.newegg.com/black-asus-tuf-g ... klink=true

Case
NZXT H510 Elite - CA-H510E-W1 - Premium Mid-Tower ATX Case PC Gaming Case - Dual-Tempered Glass Panel - Front I/O USB Type-C Port - Vertical GPU Mount - Integrated RGB Lighting - White/Black
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07T7L875Z?ta ... th=1&psc=1

Power Supply
ASUS Republic of Gamers STRIX 750W 80 Plus Gold Modular ATX Power Supply
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... dular.html

Existing Components
Existing GPU to be used (until RTX3080 is purchased)
EVGA GeForce GTX 1650 SUPER SC ULTRA GAMING Video Card, 04G-P4-1357-KR, 4GB GDDR6, Dual Fan, Metal Backplate
https://www.newegg.com/evga-geforce-gtx ... 6814487482

Existing Monitor
Asus VG245H 24 inchFull HD 1080p 1ms Dual HDMI Eye Care Console Gaming Monitor with FreeSync/Adaptive Sync, Black, 24-inch
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01JG ... UTF8&psc=1
Nice build. I built an i7 Z490 system back in May and have been very happy with it.

A couple things:

- Are you sure you only want a 1080p monitor? If it were me I'd look for 2560 x 1440 for 1440p gaming.
- Current Gen Intel only supports PCI-E 3. I'm not really sure PCI-4 is really necessary at this point, but figured I'd point it out.

Otherwise, it looks awesome to me.
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LadyGeek
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

Dyloot wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:48 pm - Are you sure you only want a 1080p monitor? If it were me I'd look for 2560 x 1440 for 1440p gaming.
I agree with this. I'm currently at 2560 x 1440 and am thinking about going higher. Not so much for gaming, but high-res graphics.

Remember that going higher than 1080p (1920 x 1080p) means you'll be using a Display Port connector.
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lazydavid
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by lazydavid »

LadyGeek wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:02 pm Remember that going higher than 1080p (1920 x 1080p) means you'll be using a Display Port connector.
Not true. I'm currently at 4k (3840x2160) over HDMI.
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LadyGeek
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

You're absolutely right. Thanks for the correction. That was the limitation when I got my first Display Port monitor several years ago.

Here's a good article: DisplayPort vs. HDMI: Which Is Better For Gaming? | Tom's Hardware
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
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