PC Build Thread 2020

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jpohio
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by jpohio »

Great information, thank you for taking the time to respond
Brain
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Brain »

So far, I've purchased:

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XDqCy4
Motherboard: MSI B550-A PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard (Purchased For $124.99)
Storage: ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (Purchased For $229.99)
Case: Cougar MX331 MESH-X ATX Mid Tower Case (Purchased For $40.98)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA GA 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (Purchased For $97.99)
Case Fan: Rosewill RFA-120-K 74.48 CFM 120 mm Fan (Purchased For $14.99)
Total: $508.94

I've been taking my time and got some good price breaks along the way. I have a deadline of Nov. 19, though, as that's when Cyberpunk 2077 comes out. I know my current rig will not be able to do the game justice.

I still need a CPU, GPU and RAM.

The CPU will depend on the benchmarks and price/availability of the 5600X. If it lives up to the predictions and costs anywhere near reasonable and I can get one in a timely manner, I'll get that and some 4000 RAM, if the news about Ryzen 3 liking 4000 RAM best are true.

Otherwise, I'll go with the 3700X and some 3600 RAM.


As for the GPU, I'm still quite undecided.

I have a complication with my dual monitor setup requiring two HDMI ports. This restricts the models of GPUs I can use. Most seem to have two or three DisplayPort and one HDMI. I'd rather not have to use DP-to-HDMI adapters.

I'd really like to get a 3060 Ti, but I don't know if it will be announced, let lone released, by late November. All of the 2060S and 2070S's currently available are ridiculously expensive (over $500 for year old tech). Maybe their prices will drop once the 3070's are actually available?

So I had another thought: What if I bought the cheapest RTX that would work for me and run the game, an Asus GeForce RTX 2060 6GB DUAL EVO OC at $309.99?

I'm going to "give" my current rig with an R9 290 to my kids. It streams movies and plays MineCraft just fine. I can move the RTX 2060 into the kids computer when it's not doing what I need it to do in my rig and upgrade at that point, when, hopefully, there isn't a global supply shortage. Or would it just make more sense to bite the bullet and buy an expensive card now and be done with it?
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Independent George
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Independent George »

Brain wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:07 pmI'd really like to get a 3060 Ti, but I don't know if it will be announced, let lone released, by late November. All of the 2060S and 2070S's currently available are ridiculously expensive (over $500 for year old tech). Maybe their prices will drop once the 3070's are actually available?

So I had another thought: What if I bought the cheapest RTX that would work for me and run the game, an Asus GeForce RTX 2060 6GB DUAL EVO OC at $309.99?
I'm not as well versed on on GPUs as I am with CPUs, but that card gives me a bit of pause because of the 6GB of VRAM. That is sufficient today, but I suspect it won't age well. Everything I've read indicates that Cyberpunk is a resource hog, but it's all speculation right now. I'd agree that the $500 2070's are a terrible and should be avoided right now. My gut says to spend a little extra and try and find a 3070 (assuming it performs as advertised). The good news is you can afford to wait a few more weeks and see how the supply chain shakes out - it might all be a moot point in a few weeks.
dwc13
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by dwc13 »

jpohio wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:24 am I built 3 systems but it has been years, and from reading this thread it is clear I am really behind in terms of technology. I am considering building another system and have some questions:
You'll be fine when (if) you decide to build a PC. In many instances, naming conventions, industry standards, and product capabilities/requirements have changed over time; however, the core components & processes associated with building a PC are still largely the same. If you're stumped during a PC build, it is likely someone else already encountered the same (or similar) issue. Thanks to YouTube, Google, and vendor/tech websites, a viable solution is often readily available online.

From my perspective, the hardest part of a PC build today (compared with yesteryear) is picking out the components that will be used. There are so many options available at varying price points. As in the past, your bill of materials will be largely driven by budget considerations and projected use/computing requirements. For instance, will you be using any highly-specialized (e.g., engineering, scientific, programming) software that has unique requirements (e.g., ECC memory, professional-quality graphics drivers)? Will you be running a lot of virtual machines (VMs)?

In the end, a PC build basically comes down to several key components: CPU, motherboard, case/cooling, power supply, RAM, graphics card (GPU, if not using integrated graphics), and operating system. Don't skimp on the motherboard, power supply or case/cooling.

Independent George posted a nice response. He mentioned an AMD Ryzen 3 3200G CPU with integrated graphics as a possible option instead of a CPU + dedicated graphics card. Keep in mind the Ryzen 3 3200G & Ryzen 5 3400G are (older) Zen+ parts, not Zen 2. Currently at newegg.com, a Ryzen 5 3400G with integrated graphics is on sale $145. It's a 4 core, 8 thread CPU and includes a Wraith Spire CPU cooler. The Ryzen 7 3700X will run circles around it and then some, but it's also twice the price of the Ryzen 5 3400G -- and that's before adding in the cost of a dedicated graphics card. You get what you pay for, lol. Personally, I would only use a CPU with integrated graphics in a home theater build where silence is golden. YMMV.

https://www.newegg.com/amd-ryzen-5-3400 ... 6819113570

I'll add the following items for your consideration:

1. For an AMD Ryzen build (Zen 2 or Zen 3), make sure you buy 2 DIMMs (RAM modules) and install them in the appropriate slots per the motherboard instructions to ensure dual channel operation. So if you want 64GB RAM, buy 2 x 32GB DDR4 DIMMs. Note -- using 4 x 16GB DDR 4 DIMMs might cost less (than 2 x 32GB DDR4 DIMMs) but there is a *slight* performance penalty on AMD Ryzen systems using 4 DDR4 DIMMs (versus 2 DDR4 DIMMs).

64GB RAM is a lot, probably overkill. It will also be quite expensive if you use 2 x 32GB DDR4 3200 MHz DIMMs. I recently completed my latest build and installed 32GB RAM (2 x 16GB DDR4 3200MHz DIMMs).

2. Note AMD officially supports up to DDR4 3200 MHz DIMMs for Zen 2 CPUs (Ryzen 3xxx series desktop) and Zen 3 CPUs (Ryzen 5xxx desktop). That doesn't mean faster RAM (e.g., DDR4 3600 MHz DIMMs & beyond) won't work, because those modules can (might) work at stated speeds with some tweaking. However, faster RAM modules are not guaranteed to work at speeds higher than officially supported.

3. Just a reminder -- because you already know this -- the consumer *NEVER* gets the best bang-for-the-buck when buying the current highest performing hardware. For most computer users, current mainstream Zen 2 CPUs (including the Ryzen 7 3700X) will be quite sufficient. The Zen 2 Ryzen 9 (3950X & 3900X) CPUs are overkill for most mainstream users. Once Zen 3 CPUs become available on November 5th, there will hopefully be better deals on previous generation -- and still extremely capable -- Zen 2 CPUs.

Given current state of Intel desktop CPUs (9th & 10th generation), I did not consider using one on my recent desktop build.

4. If you will be buying an AMD AM4 motherboard, you should consider one that will support Zen 3 CPUs (aka, Ryzen 5xxx desktop, the latest generation). That way, if you buy a Zen 2 CPU (aka, Ryzen 3xxx desktop) for this build, you have a CPU upgrade path down the road. Make sure the motherboard vendor has publicly indicated it will provide Zen 3 support for the specific motherboard. While AMD has pledged Zen 3 support on a number of its existing chipsets, whether (and when) a particular motherboard actually receives such firmware support is up to the MB vendor.

5. Heat is the sworn enemy of all things electronic inside the computer case. Hence, thermals and cooling should be taken into consideration. Don't just go for aesthetics when choosing a case. Also look at the number & placement of cooling fans. The classic case airflow scenario is front-to-back, such as front intake fans (2) with rear (1) & top (1) exhaust fans. You mentioned air cooling, but if you're at all considering using an All-in-One (AIO) cooling device, make sure it (along with the motherboard & CPU) will fit inside the case.

Note it is generally more difficult to effectively dissipate heat in a smaller case, as it will be more cramped with components affecting airflow. Also, they typically have fewer well-placed (and usually smaller) cooling fans.

6. In some cases, the power supply (PS) is installed at the top of the case, while in other cases the space for the PS is at the bottom. Note there are specific considerations for some power supplies, as you can see from the links below.

https://seasonic.com/how-to-position-yo ... Vjwx_fmfww

https://www.overclockers.com/forums/sho ... nted-PSU-s

7. AMD will be unveiling its latest GPU architecture (RDNA2, aka "Big Navi") on October 28. Nvidia recently released its newest GPU architecture (Ampere, RTX 3xxx). Both will probably overkill for your particular needs, at least at the higher-end. Ampere cards are nowhere to be found in part because initial yields apparently weren't very good and then bots bought most of the available cards. Interestingly, the recommended retail price for Ampere cards was considerably lower than the previous generation Turing cards.

Will you be doing video editing (and to a lesser extent, photo editing) on a 2K/4K monitor? Do you have (or want) a multiple monitor setup?

8. If you will be installing Windows 10, keep in mind the OEM version is *not* transferrable to another computer. So if there is a defective motherboard or CPU months (or years) down the road, Microsoft can tell you you're SOL and will need to buy a new copy of Windows. The retail version of Windows 10 is transferrable to a new computer.

9. You should start seeing deals on PC components leading up to Black Friday sales.

Happy component shopping, lol.
lazydavid
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by lazydavid »

Brain wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:07 pm I have a complication with my dual monitor setup requiring two HDMI ports. This restricts the models of GPUs I can use. Most seem to have two or three DisplayPort and one HDMI. I'd rather not have to use DP-to-HDMI adapters.
Cards with multiple HDMI outputs are relatively rare. However, don't be afraid of DP-HDMI adapters. The signaling protocols for DVI, HDMI, and DisplayPort are all identical, so it's really just a matter of "make this plug fit in this port".

If you really want to avoid adapters, you can buy new cables that are HDMI on one end and DisplayPort on the other. I use these extensively at work (and the adapters also).
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

^^^ For cables, Monoprice.com usually has good pricing. I haven't compared them to amazon recently, but it's worth a look.

I'm in the midst of my new PC build. A few observations:

- The bottom of the cooling fan heat sink obstructed one of the motherboard RAM slots. Fortunately, I didn't need that slot. Otherwise, I would have had to remove the cooler to insert the RAM. (Tip: Look closely where those components go on the motherboard before you install the cooler.)

- Position of the motherboard components is all about airflow. I found a good reference: * * Ways to Better Cooling; Airflow, Cooler & Fan Data..* | Overclock.net
It is amazing how much cooler a system runs (and quieter) once the case airflow is setup to keep heated exhaust from contaminating cool intake air. Once we start doing these things, the concept seems like a no-brainer, yet most users seem to think more fans and/or powerful fans are needed to get better cooling. The reality is it's not so much the power and amount of air the fans move. but the currents / pathways the air flows in on it's way through the case that is important.
- As dwc13 states above, I oriented my Seasonic supply with the fan pointed down. My Fractal Design Meshify C case design puts the power supply on the bottom, which has an open-air cover.

I decided to orient my CPU cooler fan vertically due to the open-air top cover. The GPU is on the "low" PCIe slot to keep it away from the CPU fan.

Once everything is installed, I'll fine tune the case fan locations. There are 2 fans mounted on slots (one on the front, one on the back) so they're easy to adjust in height.

- Google is your friend. My Noctua CPU cooling fan came with a "low noise adaptor" cable. What's that do? Drops the fan speed. The manufacturer spec: Fan speeds with Low-Noise Adaptors. Do I need it? No, leave it out.
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Topic Author
Independent George
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Independent George »

LadyGeek wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:51 pm I'm in the midst of my new PC build. A few observations:
When you get a chance, can you update us on how the Windows migration goes? I'm actually more worried about that than putting the hardware together.
ZMonet
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by ZMonet »

I am stumped on a computer problem I hope someone might be able to help me with. The other day my computer completely froze while using it. Before the freeze, the LED lights in one of the case fans flickering a little but nothing else. I tried resetting the power and the computer just kept power cycling with no display. I removed the CMOS battery and after that it stopped power cycling. I tried using the graphics card and the onboard video but neither worked. I tried unseating and seating all the cables, cards, etc. but still no dice. Also tried moving RAM to different slots.

ATTEMPT#1 - Replace the motherboard.l I bought the exact same motherboard and moved the i7 8700 processor onto the board. I removed and added new thermal paste. Booted up and no change in behavior -- still no video.

ATTEMPT#2 - Replace the power supply. I hooked up the new power supply (600w) but still got no video. Tried clearing the CMOS and after that it still didn't provide video using either onboard or built-in graphics hookups. I tried hooking up a VGA monitor and that too failed to display video. At this point I decided to just pull the bare minimum and set it up outside the case: motherboard (new), power supply (new), processor (old), processor fan (old), and RAM (old). I jumped the power with a screw driver and got the same behavior (fans running, but no video).

ATTEMPT#3 - Decided to buy new RAM even though I felt like both sticks going bad at the same time was unlikely. Put the new RAM in and still no video.

UGH! So at this point, the only 'old' parts are the CPU and CPU fan. Before I go an replace the processor (around $320), how likely is it that it is the processor? I looked at it and there are no discernable makrs.
Yes, I oriented the processor the correct way. I'm not sure what else it could be but I've read that the chances of a processor going bad suddenly like that are very rare.

My wife tells me that this whole thing sounds like the story about rock soup and how my "fixing" is just building a new computer. I just want it to work at this point! Any help SO GREATLY APPRECIATED.

For reference, here is my system:
600 WATT POWER SUPPLY
ASUS PRIME B360M-A INTEL 1151 MATX SATA3 M.2/PCIE
INTEL CORE I7-8700 3.20GHZ 12MB INTEL SMART CACHE LGA1151 (COFFEE LAKE)
TWO (2) ADATA 8GB DDR4-3000 XPG Z1 MEMORY
NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 1060 6GB GDDR5
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LadyGeek
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

I know how frustrating this can be, but I hope a bad supply didn't kill a new motherboard (your first attempt).

A VGA monitor with the motherboard, didn't work. Your board also has HDMI and DVI-D video ports. Have you tried those? Remove the graphics card first.

Any chance the CMOS battery is dead?

Your board's manual: Prime B360M-A
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dwc13
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by dwc13 »

ZMonet wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:12 pm I am stumped on a computer problem I hope someone might be able to help me with.

My wife tells me that this whole thing sounds like the story about rock soup and how my "fixing" is just building a new computer. I just want it to work at this point! Any help SO GREATLY APPRECIATED.
Is your wife right, lol?

It's apparent you're pretty knowledgeable about computers. Sounds like you have already done many of the steps outlined by Asus Support for trouble shooting motherboard issues:
https://icr-am.asus.com/webchat/icr.htm ... ntId=EN-US

Perhaps the issue is OS/drive related.

1. Are you able to see "Press F2 to enter BIOS", or something along those lines once the PC is powered on?

2. Did you install a new CMOS battery?

3. Check the HDMI / DisplayPort / DVI cables & ports. Any damaged pins? Try another HDMI / DisplayPort / DI cable.

4. Download installation media for Windows 10 to a USB drive. See if the PC will boot from that USB drive. Sometimes a clean install will fix things. It's possible your existing drive or OS install is corrupted. If you have a different HD/SSD available, use it. Don't overwrite your existing HD/SSD (disconnect cables or remove it, as appropriate).

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/win ... c3b507420d

I hope you're back up and running soon enough.
Brain
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Brain »

lazydavid wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:11 pm
Brain wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:07 pm I have a complication with my dual monitor setup requiring two HDMI ports. This restricts the models of GPUs I can use. Most seem to have two or three DisplayPort and one HDMI. I'd rather not have to use DP-to-HDMI adapters.
Cards with multiple HDMI outputs are relatively rare. However, don't be afraid of DP-HDMI adapters. The signaling protocols for DVI, HDMI, and DisplayPort are all identical, so it's really just a matter of "make this plug fit in this port".

If you really want to avoid adapters, you can buy new cables that are HDMI on one end and DisplayPort on the other. I use these extensively at work (and the adapters also).
So there's no performance hit to using an adapter? My monitors cap out at 1080p, so I'm not even bothering with anything higher for quite a while. Replacing my monitors with anything better will be more expensive than even a 3070!

My R9 290 has one DisplayPort, one HDMI and two DVI ports. My monitors (same model) have one each of HDMI, DVI and VGA. I ended up using the DVI connections. I'd wager even if there were a performance hit to using DP-to-HDMI adapters, it might still be better than my current setup.

I did look at the mono-HDMI cards on PCPartPicker, but the pickings weren't really any less slim.
Nekrotok
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Nekrotok »

ZMonet wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:12 pm UGH! So at this point, the only 'old' parts are the CPU and CPU fan. Before I go an replace the processor (around $320), how likely is it that it is the processor? I looked at it and there are no discernable makrs.
Not sure if your CPU is the culprit, but if you're going to buy a new processor, then you should buy a 9th gen CPU instead. 8th gen CPUs were discontinued some time ago and any remaining stock would be overpriced. 9th gen is also just getting discontinued currently also, but still reasonably available. Especially if you live near a microcenter, they have recently discounted the 9th gen CPUs.
EZ James
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by EZ James »

Suggestions:
If your monitor has dual inputs, make sure it’s setup to display from the proper input port.

Use a wired keyboard, not bluetooth.

Remove the GTX video card. Install the CMOS battery and make sure the shorting jumper (if present) is removed. Hook the video cable to the correct port.

Power up while tapping the delete key. If that gets you into the BIOS, set the video to internal and select the drive you want to boot from.

If no drives show up, suspect a connectivity problem with the SATA cables or the power supply cable. In that case, replugging might fix the problem. I’ve had that problem with two SATA cables.

Good luck
ZMonet
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by ZMonet »

LadyGeek wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:11 pm I know how frustrating this can be, but I hope a bad supply didn't kill a new motherboard (your first attempt).

A VGA monitor with the motherboard, didn't work. Your board also has HDMI and DVI-D video ports. Have you tried those? Remove the graphics card first.

Any chance the CMOS battery is dead?

Your board's manual: Prime B360M-A
Thanks for the help, LadyGeek. Ugh, yes, that would be even more frustrating to kill another motherboard. I did try the HDMI port and that didn't work either. The board is brand new and is the second board so I don't think it is the CMOS battery. I did try the CMOS battery from the other board though and got the same results. Also, when I remove the CMOS battery and clear the bios on first startup it seems to cycle up a little differently (fan, which is my only visual, starts up, stops, and then turns on again) so I think activity is happening on the board. Also, the LED lights are working on the board (I realize that doesn't mean the board is fully working).

To be clear, when I start up I see nothing on the screen, meaning the screen doesn't even register a signal.

I'm having trouble deciding on the best path forward at this point and I don't want my frustration to skew my thinking. I did order another i7-8700 from Amazon for $300 but can initiate a return. I realize that I could move up to a 9th generation but my understanding is that I'd need to update the board bios and don't want to add yet another variable into this mix.

As I see it, I can: (1) try the i7-8700; (2) bring the whole mess to a local computer shop and see if they have any thoughts (I'm concerned they will charge me a bunch of money only to repeat the steps I've already done); (3) return what I can and buy a new 10th generation board and CPU (if so, any suggestions) from Microcenter or elsewhere (Microcenter is about an hour from me so not my first choice but doable); or (4) return what I can and just buy a new system (this HP Omen is $699 -- https://www.microcenter.com/product/627 ... g-computer). #4 seems wasteful but has the benefit of getting me out of this mess with a very defined amount of time and money.

Bogleheads impart your wisdom...lol. Thanks!
lazydavid
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by lazydavid »

Brain wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:42 pm So there's no performance hit to using an adapter? My monitors cap out at 1080p, so I'm not even bothering with anything higher for quite a while. Replacing my monitors with anything better will be more expensive than even a 3070!

My R9 290 has one DisplayPort, one HDMI and two DVI ports. My monitors (same model) have one each of HDMI, DVI and VGA. I ended up using the DVI connections. I'd wager even if there were a performance hit to using DP-to-HDMI adapters, it might still be better than my current setup.

I did look at the mono-HDMI cards on PCPartPicker, but the pickings weren't really any less slim.
No performance impact. The adapters literally just take pin 1 and connect it to here, connect pin 2 over there, etc. That's why there are inexpensive DVI-DP and HDMI-DP cables that don't even need an adapter--there are no electronics involved in the process. The only negative is that you introduce another connection point that could potentially be loose, so one more step to troubleshoot.

I use a 4k TV as my primary monitor, and it only has HDMI. But my surface dock only has mini-DP out. So I use an HDMI to mDP converter. Works just fine. My son's previous monitor had VGA and DVI, so we used a DVI to mDP adapter to connect it to his laptop. That also worked fine. His new monitor is HDMI so no adapter needed.

As a fun little easter egg, these formats are SO interchangeable that you can transport HD audio over DVI, even though the DVI spec is video-only and has no provision for audio. But if you put a DVI-HDMI adapter at each end, voila! Back in the day a lot of home theater geeks did this when they upgraded from DVI projectors and analog or SPDIF audio to HDMI components. They were able to use the existing DVI cabling already in their walls without ripping and replacing.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Dude2 »

LadyGeek wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:08 pm That's Windows boot time, not PC boot time. You can probably speed things up further by disabling selected items in the BIOS POST (Power On Self-Test), such as memory testing. OTOH, you might want confidence that the system is running OK.
Dell BIOS usually offers "fast boot" as an option, although if you are using Grub as a bootloader, it may have difficulties.
Henceforth I’ll bear Affliction till it do cry out itself, “Enough, enough,” and die.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

ZMonet wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:42 am ...Thanks for the help, LadyGeek. Ugh, yes, that would be even more frustrating to kill another motherboard. I did try the HDMI port and that didn't work either. The board is brand new and is the second board so I don't think it is the CMOS battery. I did try the CMOS battery from the other board though and got the same results. Also, when I remove the CMOS battery and clear the bios on first startup it seems to cycle up a little differently (fan, which is my only visual, starts up, stops, and then turns on again) so I think activity is happening on the board. Also, the LED lights are working on the board (I realize that doesn't mean the board is fully working).

To be clear, when I start up I see nothing on the screen, meaning the screen doesn't even register a signal.

I'm having trouble deciding on the best path forward at this point and I don't want my frustration to skew my thinking. I did order another i7-8700 from Amazon for $300 but can initiate a return. I realize that I could move up to a 9th generation but my understanding is that I'd need to update the board bios and don't want to add yet another variable into this mix.

As I see it, I can: (1) try the i7-8700; (2) bring the whole mess to a local computer shop and see if they have any thoughts (I'm concerned they will charge me a bunch of money only to repeat the steps I've already done); (3) return what I can and buy a new 10th generation board and CPU (if so, any suggestions) from Microcenter or elsewhere (Microcenter is about an hour from me so not my first choice but doable); or (4) return what I can and just buy a new system (this HP Omen is $699 -- https://www.microcenter.com/product/627 ... g-computer). #4 seems wasteful but has the benefit of getting me out of this mess with a very defined amount of time and money.

Bogleheads impart your wisdom...lol. Thanks!
If you've already tried a different monitor (not just swapping inputs), I'd say to give it up and go with a new PC.

- You're over the "repair / replace" cost threshold - which is more than half of a new PC cost (rough rule-of-thumb)
- From an emotional perspective, you'll never have full confidence in this PC again.
- Erratic fan behavior is the one thing that you can't mess around with. No CPU fan for a few minutes will kill it quickly. Sensors might be working, but the supporting motherboard logic also has to work 100%. That new CPU might have an early demise.

For perspective - I've had hardware problems (not a PC) where I had to trash something for a broken 25 cent piece of plastic. I don't remember the details, but it's the point that counts. *

Update: I remember the details. I replaced a 2000 Volkswagen GTI because the plastic clips which guided the window door tracks kept breaking. It was a design defect, common problem with that model. I was tired of going to the dealer to have the clips replaced - pull the door panels, replace the clips. Return later because the clips broke again. Cost were covered under warranty, but it was a hassle.
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wander
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by wander »

If you don't know anything about computer, don't try to do it yourself. It is simple, but not that simple. You need to know the basic of how to setup the BIOS and connecting wires between the case and motherboard ...
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by othermike27 »

ZMonet wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:12 pm I am stumped on a computer problem I hope someone might be able to help me with. The other day my computer completely froze while using it. Before the freeze, the LED lights in one of the case fans flickering a little but nothing else. I tried resetting the power and the computer just kept power cycling with no display. I removed the CMOS battery and after that it stopped power cycling. I tried using the graphics card and the onboard video but neither worked. I tried unseating and seating all the cables, cards, etc. but still no dice. Also tried moving RAM to different slots.

...
Does your system have a motherboard speaker?
Looks like this: https://www.newegg.com/p/23H-008U-00001 ... lsrc=aw.ds

These help you understand what is/isn't going on during Power On - Self Test (POST). The one I linked to is ~$12, but there are lots of others at around $4.00. You need to consult your motherboard manual to interpret the beep code this makes on startup. One beep ("One ping only, Vasily!") means a nominal boot sequence.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

^^^ That was one of the things I was going to suggest, as my earlier Asus motherboards had that feature. Not only an audible beep, but a 2-digit LCD display to show the error codes. That's why I searched the user manual - there's no mention of BIOS error codes.

"One ping only, Vasily!" - :)
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Dude2 »

ZMonet wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:12 pm I am stumped on a computer problem I hope someone might be able to help me with. The other day my computer completely froze while using it. Before the freeze, the LED lights in one of the case fans flickering a little but nothing else. I tried resetting the power and the computer just kept power cycling with no display. I removed the CMOS battery and after that it stopped power cycling. I tried using the graphics card and the onboard video but neither worked. I tried unseating and seating all the cables, cards, etc. but still no dice. Also tried moving RAM to different slots.
Just a small suggestion that I'm not sure is included in the above -- remove the power connection from the power supply to the motherboard and then reconnect it. Sometimes the motherboard needs to lose ground and then get it restored to affect a change.
Henceforth I’ll bear Affliction till it do cry out itself, “Enough, enough,” and die.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by ZMonet »

Thanks, Dude2. I tried removing the power (I actually did that every time I made a troubleshooting change on the board) but same results.

OtherMike27 and LadyGeek -- I see that my board does support a speaker (part 11 on the diagram). I ordered one off of Amazon and will have it tomorrow. Thanks! Maybe that will help me from troubleshooting blind. I'm hoping that the Asus beep codes are universal as I found this on a website.

1. Power Light is ON, "One short beep" from speaker but nothing shows on monitor
One short beep from the speaker means the device boots normally. Please confirm the monitor is working and correctly connected to the device.

2. Power Light is ON, "No beep" from speaker
Please check that the CPU and memory are installed correctly and there's no oxidation on the connection parts. If there is any oxidation, please try to wipe the oxidized part with an eraser. If it still cannot be turned on properly, please clean it with contact cleaner and re-install.

3. "One long and two short beeps" from speaker
An anomaly is detected in memory. Please confirm that the memory is correctly installed.
Please refer to the Motherboard manual for related instructions about memory.

4. "One long and three short beeps" from speaker
An anomaly is detected in the graphic card. If the graphic card needs an extra power supply, please ensure the power supply can provide enough wattage.

5. "One long and four short beeps" from speaker
An anomaly is detected on CPU Fan Error or CPU Over Temperature Error or CPU Over Voltage Error
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Brain »

Question about RAM and MoBo compatibility:

My motherboard, the MSI B550-A PRO, has a list of RAM sticks it claims/confirms compatibility with (QVL): Here.

A lot of the sticks I see on PCPartPicker that would ostensibly be compatible, are not on the QVL. For example:

CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 (Intel) is listed on PCPartPicker: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/p6RFf7 ... m2b3200c16, but it's not on the QVL.

Meanwhile, CMK16GX4M2Z3200C16 (AMD) is on the QVL, but not on PCPartPicker.

They're both on Newegg:

https://www.newegg.com/corsair-16gb-288 ... 6820233859 (Intel) $62.99
https://www.newegg.com/corsair-16gb-288 ... 6820236214 (AMD) $68.99

Comparison: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Productc ... reall=true

They looks pretty similar to me! Do I really need to spend $6 more for AMD compatibility, when the cheaper one says it's compatible with AMD?

Even the RAM listed on Logical Increments isn't listed on my board's QVL.

How correlated is being listed on the QVL to actual compatibility?
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Independent George »

Brain wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:42 pm Question about RAM and MoBo compatibility:

My motherboard, the MSI B550-A PRO, has a list of RAM sticks it claims/confirms compatibility with (QVL): Here.

A lot of the sticks I see on PCPartPicker that would ostensibly be compatible, are not on the QVL. For example:

CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 (Intel) is listed on PCPartPicker: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/p6RFf7 ... m2b3200c16, but it's not on the QVL.

Meanwhile, CMK16GX4M2Z3200C16 (AMD) is on the QVL, but not on PCPartPicker.

They're both on Newegg:

https://www.newegg.com/corsair-16gb-288 ... 6820233859 (Intel) $62.99
https://www.newegg.com/corsair-16gb-288 ... 6820236214 (AMD) $68.99

Comparison: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Productc ... reall=true

They looks pretty similar to me! Do I really need to spend $6 more for AMD compatibility, when the cheaper one says it's compatible with AMD?

Even the RAM listed on Logical Increments isn't listed on my board's QVL.

How correlated is being listed on the QVL to actual compatibility?
I believe they are identical chips with different SKUs; the QVL just means that they tested that AMD SKU on the motherboard, but if they are the same hardware, they should both work equally well. You sometimes find memory with different colors having different SKUs, but only one of them is listed on the QVL.

One thing to note about memory - you will need to go into BIOS to enable XMP to get the full clock speed out of it. Even though it is listed as DDR4-3200, I believe the default speed is 2166 Mhz, and will have to be manually set to get the higher clock speed. I suppose it is possible that the two different SKUs have different memory profiles, and that one won't work on the other motherboard, but I'm very doubtful about that because it's actually way more work to do that than to just have a single memory profile. (Then again, having two different SKUs in the first place is more work, too, so what do I know?).
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by othermike27 »

ZMonet wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:48 pm ...
OtherMike27 and LadyGeek -- I see that my board does support a speaker (part 11 on the diagram). I ordered one off of Amazon and will have it tomorrow. Thanks! Maybe that will help me from troubleshooting blind. I'm hoping that the Asus beep codes are universal as I found this on a website.
...
That's an ASUS website, and it sounds like what I recall from two builds with the ASUS B250M-A board. Info probably applies to your board too.

That sure sounds like a power problem. Yes, I recall you swapped in a new power supply. But still... If your power supplies are fully modular, did you also swap the PS-to-Mobo cables?
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

Independent George wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:57 pm
LadyGeek wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:51 pm I'm in the midst of my new PC build. A few observations:
When you get a chance, can you update us on how the Windows migration goes? I'm actually more worried about that than putting the hardware together.
Build complete. 8-) I had to reseat one of the DIMM modules, that was about it.

After a careful BIOS check that all of the hardware was recognized, fans running, temperatures OK, etc. I decided to simply boot the Win 10 SSD from my "old" desktop.

Settings --> Update & Security --> Activation shows "Windows is activated with a digital license". I think I'm OK. Perhaps the problem is when Microsoft sees more than one copy with the same license? I never created a Microsoft account to hold the license info. I should do that ASAP, as Microsoft license key management works from your account (this includes Office licenses).

Have you attached the license to your account? When you move to a new PC, it's a matter of associating the license with the new hardware to your account. Google "win 10 activate license" and "win 10 add license to account" for a ton of info.

=====================
- I used Samsung Magician to check the SSDs. All OK, including the new M.2 Samsung 970 EVO plus. It just needed to be formatted. Wow, that's fast. I'll migrate my OS and apps to the drive when I can.

- Remaining - Cable routing cleanup

- One more issue - One of the right-angle (side mount) SATA connectors at the edge of the motherboard was blocked by the case.

- The motherboard has an active RGB display. 8-)

Update: revised wording.
Update1: Microsoft license now linked to an account. Microsoft changed my login to use the account, changed it back to local login after the account was configured. The license is now activated with the new configuration, so I'm good to go. (Microsoft knows your CPU, GPU, and storage...)
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by ZMonet »

othermike27 wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:48 pm
ZMonet wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:48 pm ...
OtherMike27 and LadyGeek -- I see that my board does support a speaker (part 11 on the diagram). I ordered one off of Amazon and will have it tomorrow. Thanks! Maybe that will help me from troubleshooting blind. I'm hoping that the Asus beep codes are universal as I found this on a website.
...
That's an ASUS website, and it sounds like what I recall from two builds with the ASUS B250M-A board. Info probably applies to your board too.

That sure sounds like a power problem. Yes, I recall you swapped in a new power supply. But still... If your power supplies are fully modular, did you also swap the PS-to-Mobo cables?
The new power supply is only partially modular and I didn't use any of the modular cables (I actually couldn't find the one that would work for my graphics card so always have been using on board graphics). For what little it is worth, I did the paperclip test on my original power supply and it ran the fans I connected to it. I know this is a weak test, at best, which is why I bought the new power supply.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Nekrotok »

ZMonet wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:21 pm
The new power supply is only partially modular and I didn't use any of the modular cables (I actually couldn't find the one that would work for my graphics card so always have been using on board graphics). For what little it is worth, I did the paperclip test on my original power supply and it ran the fans I connected to it. I know this is a weak test, at best, which is why I bought the new power supply.
Did you connect the 12v CPU power cable (either 4-pin or 8-pin) and make sure to connect it the right way?
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by ZMonet »

Nekrotok wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:29 pm
ZMonet wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:21 pm
The new power supply is only partially modular and I didn't use any of the modular cables (I actually couldn't find the one that would work for my graphics card so always have been using on board graphics). For what little it is worth, I did the paperclip test on my original power supply and it ran the fans I connected to it. I know this is a weak test, at best, which is why I bought the new power supply.
Did you connect the 12v CPU power cable (either 4-pin or 8-pin) and make sure to connect it the right way?
Yup! Both the 24-pin and the 8-pin. I'm still hoping it is a rookie mistake like that.

The speaker comes tomorrow so hopefully I'll be able to troubelshoot better after I receive. A new i7 also comes tomorrow and I need to think about whether I should just return it, or whether there really is a good chance that it is the CPU. Maybe the speaker will inform my decision on that.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

Don't open the CPU box or you'll get hit with a restocking charge.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by ZMonet »

Thanks, Ladygeek. I'll hold off opening the new processor until I can make a more educated guess that it is the processor that has gone bad. I'm on the fence about buying a $700 new system that I like less and is less powerful and having all of these components just sitting around, especially if I'm just missing something relatively simple. Anyway, I'll update everyone when I hook up the speaker and see how many beeps I get.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by othermike27 »

ZMonet - Here are some resources that might help:

https://www.lifewire.com/search?q=turn+ ... owering+on

https://www.lifewire.com/what-is-a-beep-code-2625810

https://www.lifewire.com/post-test-card-2625964

Something new to me - the beep codes are unique to each BIOS supplier. Lifewire has other troubleshooting tips that might be helpful for your situation. If none of them work, exit the house immediately and call the Ghostbusters. Good luck.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Independent George »

LadyGeek wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:40 pm After a careful BIOS check that all of the hardware was recognized, fans running, temperatures OK, etc. I decided to simply boot the Win 10 SSD from my "old" desktop.

Settings --> Update & Security --> Activation shows "Windows is activated with a digital license". I think I'm OK. Perhaps the problem is when Microsoft sees more than one copy with the same license? I never created a Microsoft account to hold the license info. I should do that ASAP, as Microsoft license key management works from your account (this includes Office licenses).

Have you attached the license to your account? When you move to a new PC, it's a matter of associating the license with the new hardware to your account. Google "win 10 activate license" and "win 10 add license to account" for a ton of info.

...

Update1: Microsoft license now linked to an account. Microsoft changed my login to use the account, changed it back to local login after the account was configured. The license is now activated with the new configuration, so I'm good to go. (Microsoft knows your CPU, GPU, and storage...)
Huh. I was curious about just plugging in my old 2.5" SSD and see if it runs, but thought to myself, "Naw, that's way too simple for Windows". Are you migrating your OS via software (like Acronis), or doing a fresh install to the M.2 drive? My Win10 account is linked to an email - I planned to deactivate my account first, then do a fresh install, but was hesitant because of that brief window (heh) between hardware & accounts.

I also still have my original HDD with an OEM Win7 install on it. I think once I migrate everything to the new M.2 drive, I'm going see if I can still do a free Win10 upgrade on that OEM license key, then move it to my old 2.5" SATA drive.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

I took the simple "nothing to lose, let's see if this works" approach. It did. Apparently, Win 10 doesn't care about the hardware change. It even loaded the NVidia control.

I suspect that I linked my Win 10 license to my account before it did any serious authentication checks - which is why I wanted to do this as quickly as possible. I'll link my other 2 licenses (dual boot desktop and laptop) to my account shortly.

Since the drive booted without any grief by Windows, I simply moved everything to my M.2 drive in one fell-swoop. How? Clone the drive with Macrium Reflect Free. It clones the drive in real time via Windows shadow copy (backup process).

This is the software I use for creating / restoring my Win 10 backups. I like the layout and it does what's needed. Now that I have new hardware, I'll need to create a new bootable recovery USB drive so I can restore images when needed (the recovery drive contains hardware drivers for your specific PC).

====================
In case Windows complains, you can update after it detects the hardware change no problem. Direct from Microsoft: Reactivating Windows 10 after a hardware change (Reactivate Windows 10 after a hardware change)

An easy-to-read guide: How to reactivate Windows 10 after a hardware change
=====================

I'm running a 'break-in' test to stress my new build and give confidence. The CPU intensive Folding@home open-source distributed computing app - which maxed my old desktop at 100 deg C - is running a comfortable 71 deg C.

I've got lots of tweaking to do, not to mention digging into the BIOS. No overclocking, but I want to make sure everything is set the way I want.

One nice thing about the Fractal Design Meshify C case - Even though I don't have a glass side panel, I can still see the insides from the top (mesh) cover. The motherboard RGB display and the GeForce card light strip (white) look cool. Oh, and the case now has an appropriate decoration of stickers (the Noctua cooler sticker was metal.) 8-)

As for fan noise, I was pleasantly surprised. With no load, it was about as loud as my Lenovo desktop PC - maybe quieter. It was also a "smooth" noise over the audio spectrum, boosted a bit at the low end and much easier on my ears than my Lenovo desktop fans. Under load, it got a bit louder, but is not annoying. Currently, the case is at shoulder level. I'll move it to the floor to cut the sound which reaches my ears down even more.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

^^^ I reconfigured my Folding@home project to add GPU processing, which now represents a fully-loaded PC.

- CPU resources are close to 100% for 6 of 8 cores, temperature around 80 deg C (measured with Core Temp), power draw is 87.9 W
- GPU resource utilization at 28%, temperature at 73 deg C (measured with Win 10 task manager)
- M.2 SSD temperature at 49 deg C (measured with Samsung Magician)

Total power draw - 356 W (measured with my UPS - APC Back-UPS Pro 1350)

I didn't realize this, but the latest version of Win 10 (after May 2020) has incorporated a GPU temperature monitor into Task Manager. It's another good reason to keep your Win 10 current. How to check your graphics card's GPU temperature I also installed MSI Afterburner.

Overall, I'd say everything is running "nominal". The load balancing is doing a good job to keep temperatures within limits without a perceived slowdown for other tasks (web browsing, email, etc.). The room is getting a bit warmer, but winter is coming...

Update: Added total power draw.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by Independent George »

The $200 price floor for a 2 TB TLC m.2 drive has been broken.

Mushkin Enhanced Pilot-E 2 TB

I have no experience with the brand, but the price represents a major milestone. I got my Crucial P5 on sale last week for $215. At these prices, I expect HDDs to disappear in the next 5-10 years.
LadyGeek wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:39 pm ^^^ I reconfigured my Folding@home project to add GPU processing, which now represents a fully-loaded PC.

- CPU resources are close to 100% for 6 of 8 cores, temperature around 80 deg C (measured with Core Temp), power draw is 87.9 W
- GPU resource utilization at 28%, temperature at 73 deg C (measured with Win 10 task manager)
- M.2 SSD temperature at 49 deg C (measured with Samsung Magician)

Total power draw - 356 W (measured with my UPS - APC Back-UPS Pro 1350)

I didn't realize this, but the latest version of Win 10 (after May 2020) has incorporated a GPU temperature monitor into Task Manager. It's another good reason to keep your Win 10 current. How to check your graphics card's GPU temperature I also installed MSI Afterburner.

Overall, I'd say everything is running "nominal". The load balancing is doing a good job to keep temperatures within limits without a perceived slowdown for other tasks (web browsing, email, etc.). The room is getting a bit warmer, but winter is coming...

Update: Added total power draw.
Nice!
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by ZMonet »

ZMonet wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:12 pm I am stumped on a computer problem I hope someone might be able to help me with. The other day my computer completely froze while using it. Before the freeze, the LED lights in one of the case fans flickering a little but nothing else. I tried resetting the power and the computer just kept power cycling with no display. I removed the CMOS battery and after that it stopped power cycling. I tried using the graphics card and the onboard video but neither worked. I tried unseating and seating all the cables, cards, etc. but still no dice. Also tried moving RAM to different slots.

ATTEMPT#1 - Replace the motherboard.l I bought the exact same motherboard and moved the i7 8700 processor onto the board. I removed and added new thermal paste. Booted up and no change in behavior -- still no video.

ATTEMPT#2 - Replace the power supply. I hooked up the new power supply (600w) but still got no video. Tried clearing the CMOS and after that it still didn't provide video using either onboard or built-in graphics hookups. I tried hooking up a VGA monitor and that too failed to display video. At this point I decided to just pull the bare minimum and set it up outside the case: motherboard (new), power supply (new), processor (old), processor fan (old), and RAM (old). I jumped the power with a screw driver and got the same behavior (fans running, but no video).

ATTEMPT#3 - Decided to buy new RAM even though I felt like both sticks going bad at the same time was unlikely. Put the new RAM in and still no video.

UGH! So at this point, the only 'old' parts are the CPU and CPU fan. Before I go an replace the processor (around $320), how likely is it that it is the processor? I looked at it and there are no discernable makrs.
Yes, I oriented the processor the correct way. I'm not sure what else it could be but I've read that the chances of a processor going bad suddenly like that are very rare.

My wife tells me that this whole thing sounds like the story about rock soup and how my "fixing" is just building a new computer. I just want it to work at this point! Any help SO GREATLY APPRECIATED.

For reference, here is my system:
600 WATT POWER SUPPLY
ASUS PRIME B360M-A INTEL 1151 MATX SATA3 M.2/PCIE
INTEL CORE I7-8700 3.20GHZ 12MB INTEL SMART CACHE LGA1151 (COFFEE LAKE)
TWO (2) ADATA 8GB DDR4-3000 XPG Z1 MEMORY
NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 1060 6GB GDDR5
So, I got the computer speaker today and hooked it up to the motherboard where there are four prongs labeled "speaker". I hooked everything up, used the screw driver to start the power, and...NOTHING. No beep, nothing. I tried changing the orientation of the speaker, but that didn't do anything. I tried different RAM configurations and nothing. When I look up "no beeps" it says:

2. Power Light is ON, "No beep" from speaker
Please check that the CPU and memory are installed correctly and there's no oxidation on the connection parts. If there is any oxidation, please try to wipe the oxidized part with an eraser. If it still cannot be turned on properly, please clean it with contact cleaner and re-install.


I'm even more stumped than before. I thought I would have more clarity, but feel like I have less. I'm pretty sure the memory is good as it would be crazy for four sticks to fail so I'm wondering if this likely means the CPU has bit the dust. I have a new CPU but think it might be worth bringing to a local shop rather than opening it up and throwing more parts at this thing. I'm attaching a pic in case people have other thoughts.

Image
https://freeimage.host/i/3V9RAG
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

Let me put this into perspective -

The manual is guidance for new builds. You've got a failure that could be anything.

I think you hit a dead end and are starting to rehash your previous thoughts. Time to decide.

My vote - Return the CPU. Take it to the shop and see how much they'll charge you. I suspect they may come to the same conclusion and offer you a deal on a new or used(?) PC. See what they have to offer. Otherwise, go with the new PC you've previously mentioned.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by ZMonet »

Thanks, LadyGeek. I hate to "waste" the processor and the rest of the components if they are still usable. The computer shop advertises $0 to $50 for diagnostics and $60/hour to repair. If I had known that before, I would have brought it to them previously. I'll update people on how that goes.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by ZMonet »

It is going to take some time to get my computer looked at so I'm just going to buy something new. Any thoughts between these two? Both are $750.

Costco -- https://www.costco.com/lenovo-legion-5- ... 71239.html

Microcenter -- https://www.microcenter.com/product/627 ... LAN__WiFi_
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

Either one is fine. The Lenovo has a better graphics card ("Super" designation) and processor, but the HP as a "Turbo" mode. That being said, let's go into the finer points...

Are you planning to do any serious upgrades, such as reuse parts from your current PC? You may be limited due to the customized case layout and parts used by the commercial manufacturers.

As it so happens - my "new" build freed up a 500 GB hard drive that I can use with my "old" Lenovo desktop. I also found a spare monitor, keyboard, and mouse, not to mention a second 3.5" 500 GB hard drive from a previous build.

I can build a new system from this and find a use for it. Right? Not exactly. The Lenovo Slim Form Factor desktop allows 1 x 3.5" drive bay and 1 x 2.5" drive bay due to the compact space needed for the optical drive. So, 1 HDD and / or 1 SSD only.

It's important to pull the specs directly from the manufacturer's website (Lenovo Model 90NC001MUS, HP model 13Z92AA#ABA). The Costco and Microcenter websites are a brief summary. You want detailed descriptions on dimensions, interface slots, USB ports (note USB 3.2 has a different connector), drive bays, etc. to set your expectations of what you're buying.

Did you intend to upgrade the graphics card? Check the slot dimensions, as well as the power supply - you may need to upgrade both for more graphics horsepower (found in one of the site review comments - good point).

Other factors - Neither has an internal optical drive, not a big deal. The HP has a "wow, cool" factor - clear case and internal lighting. If you're on the fence, it never hurts to get something that looks impressive. Show it to your friends and relatives.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by exitrow »

ZMonet, I'm building a PC myself using an ASUS TUF Gaming board. No video was coming out and I was going nuts. Once I plugged a keyboard into a USB port, the video finally came out the motherboard HDMI.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by ZMonet »

Thanks, Exitrow. I'll try that. I vaguely remember some old buoilds of mine would give a beep error and wouldn't POST if you didn't have a keyboard hooked up. Very odd but I would jump for joy if that was the problem.

LadyGeek -- I'm not going to do much, if anything, in the way of upgrades other than add some additional hard drives and maybe upgrade the memory. The other build is going to Microcenter to have them do a diagnosis. If I have two operational computers at some point, one computer will go to my wife to upgrade a 9-year-old computer (works fine for her but makes me feel better about the purchase). I'm leaning towards the Costco Lenovo because of the Costco additional warranty and longer return period (not that I want to get into that with a computer!)

At this point I just need to be over to clear the mind space and frustration. I so appreciate everyone's help though. It is nice to have others to commiserate with who understand the pain.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by ZMonet »

Tried attaching a keyboard and mouse but unfortunately that didn't work either. Shucks! I'm thinking it's the processor at this point but I'll let micro center tell me and then probably buy a new processor and maybe motherboard at that point.

I think I've been following your threads on using the same boot drive from an old build. Is it true that I can use the 256 SSD boot drive for my old computer and that the system and windows will operate fine. I know that this used to cause all sorts of problems and you needed to do a fresh install. The old system is a 256 SSD drive and the new system is a 256GB NVMe M.2 2280 Solid State Drive. Can I just remove the NVMe drive for the time being and put in the old 256 SSD. As you can imagine I'm a little gun shy about making any modifications at this pointbut I don't want to have to do a fresh install and download all the programs if it's unnecessary.

As always, thanks for everyone's help!
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LadyGeek
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

I successfully booted my new build with the SSD from my Lenovo. No issues whatsoever, works fine - including a switch from Intel to AMD CPUs.

A quick google search shows that Win 10 is indeed loading new drivers on-the-fly. How to Move Your Windows Drive to a New PC.
When you throw an existing Windows installation at a new PC, it'll perform its first-time setup as if it were a new computer, grab drivers for your new hardware, and hopefully drop you onto the desktop without too much trouble.
Linux doesn't care about moving to a new PC because it loads drivers every time.

At this stage of the game, you're not looking for a working copy of Windows. You want to see that the PC boots. The fact that it can (1) run the boot loader and (2) start the boot process is enough to say the hardware is working.

Go ahead and try it with your old SSD. If it boots, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
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lazydavid
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by lazydavid »

exitrow wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:00 pm ZMonet, I'm building a PC myself using an ASUS TUF Gaming board. No video was coming out and I was going nuts. Once I plugged a keyboard into a USB port, the video finally came out the motherboard HDMI.
I just sent my TUF X570 in for repair. In certain situations--anytime my son was playing GTAV, but also other random things like restoring a browser from being minimized--the video would go blank and the machine would crash. Power cycling had no effect, the only way to get video again was to clear the UEFI and go through setup again. I replaced the video card, tried a different slot, and a dozen other things. My processor does not have onboard video so I couldn't test to see if the mobo output worked. The last time this happened, I couldn't get it working again even after futzing with it for 3 hours. Hopefully they can find the problem.
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LadyGeek
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

My motherboard is an Asus TUF GAMING X570-Plus. Did you check for BIOS updates? It's the first thing I do after getting the OS working.

FYI - Asus released an update for this board yesterday.

Update: My new build just did an unexpected hard reboot. I'll update the BIOS and proceed cautiously.

Tip: Save all the parts boxes. If anything fails and you need to return an item, you'll have the right box.
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ZMonet
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by ZMonet »

Thanks in advance for helping me get the last mile. I got my new system, the Lenovo Legion. I opened it up and was able to pull the hard drive they had in it (1 TB) and put in my two hard drives and SSD drive. What I'm having problems with is removing the 256GB NVMe M.2 2280 Solid State Drive as I've never had one before.
There seem to be metal tension holders that I should be able to press in to release but that doesn't seem to work.

EDIT: Nevermind. I see it has a tiny metal screw and that removes it.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by deskjockey »

ZMonet wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:56 am Thanks in advance for helping me get the last mile. I got my new system, the Lenovo Legion. I opened it up and was able to pull the hard drive they had in it (1 TB) and put in my two hard drives and SSD drive. What I'm having problems with is removing the 256GB NVMe M.2 2280 Solid State Drive as I've never had one before.
There seem to be metal tension holders that I should be able to press in to release but that doesn't seem to work.

Here is a picture of the motherboard.
https://ibb.co/T156Tsg
ZMonet--The pic you posted of the motherboard has the location of the M.2 SSD hidden by the GPU. The M.2 card is between your GPU and CPU, roughly where the word "super" appears in the picture. It is NOT what you posted in the second picture (that's an RGB card) and it is NOT held down by metal clips. It should be held down by a screw. Unscrew it, then slide it out of its socket. Look at page 85 of your computer manual for a drawing of how to do it.
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Re: PC Build Thread 2020

Post by LadyGeek »

^^^ This was also the first time I've owned an M.2 SSD drive. That's the smallest hardware I've seen to date. My second M.2 connector is also under the slot I picked to hold my GPU.

As for my new build updates - Not only did I update the BIOS, but all of the available Asus Windows 10 drivers - audio, chipset, LAN, RAID. I'm hoping this is a stray "gotcha" from not doing a clean install.

Win 10 displayed a "Something's not right here..." blue screen of death and rebooted. The next boot was OK.

Go to the specific motherboard website --> Support --> Driver & Tools, then download stuff from the "Driver & Tools" and "BIOS & Firmware" tabs.

The drivers are .zip files. Expand each zip file and run the Asus setup.exe program. Be sure to reboot.
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