Tesla Full Self Driving Option

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TravelforFun
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Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by TravelforFun »

Those who have bought Tesla, did you also buy the FSD option? Why or why not? Personally, I find it hard to justify paying $8,000 in advance for an option that you don't know when it will be available.

TravelforFun
Last edited by TravelforFun on Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
hunoraut
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by hunoraut »

Nope. It fails at very basic things like knowing the appropriate speed limit (off maybe 33% of the portions of roads i traverse). has random sudden braking behavior. there are some other oddities as well.

just the "simple" adaptive cruise has enough flaws today, that i cant trust it to take over a larger portion of the driving.

hence, ill let bigger tesla fans fund the beta experiment
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Callisto
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by Callisto »

When I bought mine, they had split it out by EAP(5k? iirc) and FSD (1k). EAP is basically all the actual "real" features, while FSD is promise for the future software and hardware.

Since then, as you've seen, they've rolled everything into one package. So if you want any of the current features, you'll have to buy the whole thing. You can go test drive the features if you are unsure, and I believe you even have a window to refund the purchase.
alfaspider
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by alfaspider »

My take is that most of that stuff is worthless until you have true level 5 autonomy- like you can take a nap or send the car to a remote location with no driver. Even if FSD worked perfectly and fulfilled all promises, it doesn't really do anything for you if you still have to watch the road and be ready to take over at a moment's notice.

And that's not even getting into the absurdity of paying up front for a feature that does not exist and may not ever exist during your ownership.
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Leif
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by Leif »

I bought the FSD option for my S in 2016. I saw a video they made that year and Tesla was able to make it look like FSD was all but a done deal. Elon said by the end of 2017 they would do a full self drive coast to coast. Ah, right. 2020 and still not even close.

Am I bitter? Yes. I bought the vaporware. I remember on a blog at the time some suggest to hold off. Some even suggested using the money for FSD to buy Tesla stock and when FSD was working than sell the stock and buy FSD. If only I had listened...
itsjustme
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by itsjustme »

Here are the different features from their website:

Autopilot (Included)
- Enables your car to steer, accelerate and brake automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane.

Full Self-Driving Capability ($8,000)
- Navigate on Autopilot: automatic driving from highway on-ramp to off-ramp including interchanges and overtaking slower cars.
- Auto Lane Change: automatic lane changes while driving on the highway.
- Autopark: both parallel and perpendicular spaces.
- Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really.
- Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control: assisted stops at traffic controlled intersections.

Upcoming
- Autosteer on city streets

So, here's the thing, is any of this "worth" $8000, it depends on what "worth" means to you. The only feature I never use is Autopark, the rest I use.

The feature that could possibly make $8000 reasonable is the Navigate on Autopilot. This is the only car you can buy that will drive itself without help from point A to B on the highway, including passing other cars that are going slower, getting off exits, etc. Is it perfect, far from it. But, I've let the car drive me hundreds of miles all by itself with very little help from me. It makes a long drive ever so slightly less taxing on the mind (you still have to pay attention at all times).

Summon is a total gimmick, it is slow, stupid, and rarely practical to use. However, I like playing with it and do so every now and then with a smile on my face.

Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control isn't quite useful enough, but it's getting there. I suspect I might leverage it sort of like I do Autopilot on the highway someday, probably when they release the Autosteer on city streets feature. Right now, it's fun to turn on occasionally to see how it does.

I bought it when it was $6000, mostly for the cool factor because I'm a nerd and wanted the most technologically advanced car I could find. I don't regret it. You might. You just need to decide what matters most to you.
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by ddb »

TravelforFun wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:01 am Those who have bought Tesla, did you also by the FSD option? Why or why not? Personally, I find it hard to justify paying $8,000 in advance for an option that you don't know when it will be available.
I chose not to buy FSD, because I didn't think the benefits justified the cost.

The "summon" feature is cool for a few times, but overall pretty useless.

The highway features aren't helpful to me, because when there are a decent number of other cars on the road, I am generally driving fast and doing lots of lane changing and variable-speed driving to get ahead of everybody, and FSD wouldn't accomplish that at all.

The main benefit of FSD for me would be highway driving with very little traffic where I mostly cruise in the slow lane, only moving right occasionally to overtake. Even then, though, because I'm usually driving above the speed limit and constantly scanning for police officers, I prefer to have a more active involvement in the driving experience.
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harikaried
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by harikaried »

For most people, I would probably suggest not purchasing FSD yet as the critical ability to drive without supervision is not ready. The "feature complete" version where the driver still needs to actively monitor is theoretically coming in a few months. (And it's constantly been "close" for the last few years.) The basic Autopilot functionality works great (and still needs supervision), so practically the $8k cost is only really for automatic lane changes right now.

Personally, I enjoy testing and experiencing the progress towards FSD most recently with the addition of stopping at traffic lights and now detecting when a light is green for you. It's exciting for me even for minor adjustments that aren't even worth highlighting in the release notes such as improved driving on line-less roads with cars parked on the street (before the car would most likely steer and stop behind a parked car).

There's also the future potential of making money from robotaxi, but who knows when that will actually happen.
Normchad
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by Normchad »

I did not buy FSD. There just isn’t enough capability there to justify it for me. Plus, you can add it later if you want.

Tesla has said that all cars will get all safety features for free. So you aren’t going to miss out in any important safety features.

If it ever gets to the point that it can drive me to my office without my intervention, I will buy it. But who knows when that will come. I might own a different car by then.

I also suspect there might come a day when they get desperate for cash, and will, let you buy it for cheap, we shall see....
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mmmodem
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by mmmodem »

Is full self driving, level 5 fully autonomous driving worth $8000?Absolutely! I would trade in my perfectly capable hybrid vehicle today and spend $60k for a Model Y + FSD. The most I've ever spent on a vehicle is $25k for a plug in Prius. So, call me an EV and Tesla fanboy.

Unfortunately, FSD isn't yet available and paying $8 grand for the to beta test doesn't make sense to me. Another poster already said they bought it for their 2016 model S and still nothing. After 4 years, I may sell and upgrade to a different vehicle having never used the FSD features. The answer is no, if I were buying a Tesla today, I wouldn't pay for it. I'll add it for ~$10k or whatever through a software update whenever it does become available. I'll invest $8000 in my AA in the meantime.
chrisdds98
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by chrisdds98 »

if you get a used tesla it seems like getting a car that already has FSD makes a lot of sense.
Afty
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by Afty »

I didn't buy FSD and am happy with that decision. You can always add it later if by some miracle they get it working.
gougou
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by gougou »

I bought EAP + FSD for $5000 total when TSLA crashed to under $200 and the package was on sale. I don't think that deal is ever coming back.

But after so many years, where is my FSD Musk?! :x :x
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

There are plenty of youtube videos showing summon behavior. If I wanted to crash my car, I'd do it without paying for extra help myself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxoEze3UqXQ
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FoolStreet
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by FoolStreet »

I went all in and bought it on my 3 when it first came out.

I think of 3 categories of value, in descending order.

- lane keep and auto cruise control. You can find these gas n other cars, but Tesla’s is waaay more intuitive, able to capture edge cases and gets over the air improvements in the software every month or two.

- on-ramp to off-ramp navigation on auto-pilot. I use the auto lane changes and it helps me keep a safety buffer on long road trips. The features for auto merging highway intersections is cool to avoid missing interchanges and exits, but in commute traffic, it can be faster to control manually.

- city street driving. That’s the holy grail and we haven’t seen it yet. Having the ability to sense stop lights and signs and avoid pedestrian is nice. I haven’t seen these features yet. I’m glad I paid for them since I could afford them, but these extra features are just that, extra. If you can afford it then why not splurge as a show of “Kickstarter-like” faith. Otherwise, wait for release.
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batpot
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by batpot »

honest question: if you're not buying the FSD...why not buy a Leaf or a Volt?

Our next car is going to be a PHEV that we can still take on road trips to remote locations, but will sustain on battery alone for 99% of our driving.
Normchad
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by Normchad »

batpot wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:04 pm honest question: if you're not buying the FSD...why not buy a Leaf or a Volt?

Our next car is going to be a PHEV that we can still take on road trips to remote locations, but will sustain on battery alone for 99% of our driving.
The car is a lot more fun than a volt or a leaf. It is the best car I’ve ever owned, bumpy a huge margin.

Also it has really good range compared to any other EV I could buy at the time.

And a lot of the features that people think are FSD, actually come with the base car. So,I’ve got the best traffic aware cruise control,I’ve ever seen. The best lane keeping I’ve ever had, etc. right now today, FSD really doesn’t add too much capability over what comes standard. I can watch Netflix at the McDonalds drive thru. I didn’t know I wanted this until the pandemic hit.....

BTW, I think the Leaf and the Volt/Bolt are both good cars. I really wish the Volt had been more successful.
investor997
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by investor997 »

batpot wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:04 pm honest question: if you're not buying the FSD...why not buy a Leaf or a Volt?

Our next car is going to be a PHEV that we can still take on road trips to remote locations, but will sustain on battery alone for 99% of our driving.
I didn't buy FSD because it's vaporware, and I believe it will be years (if not decades) before it becomes a reality.

As for why I bought a Model 3 over a Leaf or a Volt... I posted about this in my Model 3 thread but one of the ironies of the Tesla is that despite Elon's gloating and boasting over FSD capability, the car is an absolute joy for us humans to drive. I *want* to drive the car on my own; the acceleration, the steering feel, the gokart-like visibility...
Big Dog
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by Big Dog »

Did not purchase FSD, but did purchase EAP (which is no longer offered). The only thing I use with EAP is auto-lane change, which works great. (I frequently drive from SoCal to NorCal and Interstate 5 is a two-lane highway thru the Central Valley. Coming up on a truck on cruise control, just push down the stalk, and the car will change lanes to pass teh truck. Push the stalk again, and the car will return to the right lane.)

I've tried Navigate on Autopilot several times (it came with EAP) and find it beyond worthless. I'll be doing 70+ moving along with traffic, with an exit 1-2 miles down the road, and the computer keeps prompting me to switch left into the car pool lane....constantly. There is just no need. And yeah it is cool that it will change highways automatically on a cloverleaf, but I have no issue grabbing the wheel for 15-20 seconds to make that maneuver.
As for why I bought a Model 3 over a Leaf or a Volt... I posted about this in my Model 3 thread but one of the ironies of the Tesla is that despite Elon's gloating and boasting over FSD capability, the car is an absolute joy for us humans to drive. I *want* to drive the car on my own; the acceleration, the steering feel, the gokart-like visibility...
And the Leaf is just ugly, with limited range. Teslsa's superchargers are great for road-tripping.
hunoraut
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by hunoraut »

batpot wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:04 pm honest question: if you're not buying the FSD...why not buy a Leaf or a Volt?

Our next car is going to be a PHEV that we can still take on road trips to remote locations, but will sustain on battery alone for 99% of our driving.
1. More performance. I don't need all the power of the Tesla, but i do want much more power than than the leaf/volt offers. (1/4mi in 13.5s is my yardstick)

2. More range. On road trips we stop every 1.5-2.5hr. Any more frequent than that would be an absolute no-go.

3. Supercharging network. Real differentiator on the cross continental trips.

4. I find the Volt repulsive looking x-:
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batpot
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by batpot »

Appreciate the honest replies.
A full EV does not make sense for us right now, but it may be an option in the future as a secondary vehicle.
Starfish
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by Starfish »

TravelforFun wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:01 am Those who have bought Tesla, did you also buy the FSD option? Why or why not? Personally, I find it hard to justify paying $8,000 in advance for an option that you don't know when it will be available.

TravelforFun
Oh, but I know. Not in the next decade.
bagle
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by bagle »

I have EAP only for now. I haven't found FSD to be compelling -- yet.

But, with Tesla you have to continually monitor. There is a complete software re-rewrite in alpha phase (Elon Musk has it) that is supposed to be released within a couple of months. It promises to improve urban driving with things like right and unrestricted left turns, but with Tesla you really have to wait to see whether it's for real.
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by Valuethinker »

alfaspider wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:50 am My take is that most of that stuff is worthless until you have true level 5 autonomy- like you can take a nap or send the car to a remote location with no driver. Even if FSD worked perfectly and fulfilled all promises, it doesn't really do anything for you if you still have to watch the road and be ready to take over at a moment's notice.

And that's not even getting into the absurdity of paying up front for a feature that does not exist and may not ever exist during your ownership.
Worse than useless?

Actively dangerous? Because it encourages driver inattention?

Inattention is what kills drivers, and pedestrians.
hunoraut
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by hunoraut »

my 2nd visit to a supercharger, i had a guy brag to me unsolicited about how he defeats the driver-alertness alarm by tying a bag of coins to the steering wheel, so he can use his laptop and do emails on the freeway....
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TravelforFun
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by TravelforFun »

Valuethinker wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:38 am
alfaspider wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:50 am My take is that most of that stuff is worthless until you have true level 5 autonomy- like you can take a nap or send the car to a remote location with no driver. Even if FSD worked perfectly and fulfilled all promises, it doesn't really do anything for you if you still have to watch the road and be ready to take over at a moment's notice.

And that's not even getting into the absurdity of paying up front for a feature that does not exist and may not ever exist during your ownership.
Worse than useless?

Actively dangerous? Because it encourages driver inattention?

Inattention is what kills drivers, and pedestrians.
I believe autonomous driving is safer than human driving and it's getting better every day. The autonomous driver doesn't text, eat, drink, fall asleep, have medical issues, or road rage. This is why you will see more and more autonomous trucks on the road. Andrew Yang is right when he says truck drivers need to be worried.

TravelforFun
unstartable
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by unstartable »

I think Elon Musk is an outright liar. It's sad because Tesla has some compelling products, but his ego really gets in the way of proper development.
alfaspider
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by alfaspider »

TravelforFun wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:57 am
Valuethinker wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:38 am
alfaspider wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:50 am My take is that most of that stuff is worthless until you have true level 5 autonomy- like you can take a nap or send the car to a remote location with no driver. Even if FSD worked perfectly and fulfilled all promises, it doesn't really do anything for you if you still have to watch the road and be ready to take over at a moment's notice.

And that's not even getting into the absurdity of paying up front for a feature that does not exist and may not ever exist during your ownership.
Worse than useless?

Actively dangerous? Because it encourages driver inattention?

Inattention is what kills drivers, and pedestrians.
I believe autonomous driving is safer than human driving and it's getting better every day. The autonomous driver doesn't text, eat, drink, fall asleep, have medical issues, or road rage. This is why you will see more and more autonomous trucks on the road. Andrew Yang is right when he says truck drivers need to be worried.

TravelforFun
I think it has the potential to get there, but is not there today. There are certain types of obstacles that autopilot simply can't recognize, which is why human interaction is needed. There are also situations that will be really tough for AI to figure out. For example, whether an object on the road is a cardboard box or a piece of metal equipment makes a big difference in a decision to just hit the object or swerve/emergency brake. AI isn't yet good enough to make that call. It is also unable to drive in inclement weather, and may have difficulty if lane markings end due to road construction.

Long story short, you still need to pay attention to the road if you use "full self driving." If I'm paying attention to the road, I might as well just drive. I'd rather drive than just stare at the road. If and when self driving becomes completely eyes off, then it's going to be a game changer, but not until then.

We've had "false summits" with AI before. I remember a brief time in the 1990s when everyone was saying multipurpose household robots were just around the corner. It turned out that basic household tasks are a lot more complex that was initially realized. Today, we have robot vacuums, but that's about it (and they still haven't displaced human operated models). With driving, we seem to be stuck at the 95% of the way there mark. The autonomous revolution where truck drivers all have to find new work doesn't happen until we are at 100%.
TN_Boy
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by TN_Boy »

alfaspider wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:04 am
TravelforFun wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:57 am
Valuethinker wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:38 am
alfaspider wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:50 am My take is that most of that stuff is worthless until you have true level 5 autonomy- like you can take a nap or send the car to a remote location with no driver. Even if FSD worked perfectly and fulfilled all promises, it doesn't really do anything for you if you still have to watch the road and be ready to take over at a moment's notice.

And that's not even getting into the absurdity of paying up front for a feature that does not exist and may not ever exist during your ownership.
Worse than useless?

Actively dangerous? Because it encourages driver inattention?

Inattention is what kills drivers, and pedestrians.
I believe autonomous driving is safer than human driving and it's getting better every day. The autonomous driver doesn't text, eat, drink, fall asleep, have medical issues, or road rage. This is why you will see more and more autonomous trucks on the road. Andrew Yang is right when he says truck drivers need to be worried.

TravelforFun
I think it has the potential to get there, but is not there today. There are certain types of obstacles that autopilot simply can't recognize, which is why human interaction is needed. There are also situations that will be really tough for AI to figure out. For example, whether an object on the road is a cardboard box or a piece of metal equipment makes a big difference in a decision to just hit the object or swerve/emergency brake. AI isn't yet good enough to make that call. It is also unable to drive in inclement weather, and may have difficulty if lane markings end due to road construction.

Long story short, you still need to pay attention to the road if you use "full self driving." If I'm paying attention to the road, I might as well just drive. I'd rather drive than just stare at the road. If and when self driving becomes completely eyes off, then it's going to be a game changer, but not until then.

We've had "false summits" with AI before. I remember a brief time in the 1990s when everyone was saying multipurpose household robots were just around the corner. It turned out that basic household tasks are a lot more complex that was initially realized. Today, we have robot vacuums, but that's about it (and they still haven't displaced human operated models). With driving, we seem to be stuck at the 95% of the way there mark. The autonomous revolution where truck drivers all have to find new work doesn't happen until we are at 100%.
Very much agree.

If I have to pay attention anyway, I'd rather drive. I don't know how to do "chill out unless/until the car needs you to do something right now ....."

That said, some people do feel the enhanced cruise control abilities of recent cars (not just Teslas) work well in reducing driver fatigue.

As a software engineer (granted not one working in this space) it is obvious to me that having a car which can take you from your driveway to a destination in another city without user intervention, across all conditions, is pretty far away. Getting 90 to 95% of the way there .... sure. It's the last 5% that might, err, kill you.
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by BamaGuy22 »

I have the Enhanced Auto Pilot on my Model 3. No interest in the FSD package at this time. As others have said, we're a long way from what anyone would call Self Driving. Currently it's vaporware.

But having said that, when used as it's intended, as a driver assist feature while still paying attention, the current autopilot is amazing IMO. Not perfect but constantly getting better through the OTA updates. Like a lot of technology, it can be dangerous if misused. Stupid people will do stupid things in cars no matter what, but having an extra set of "eyes" on the road with a much faster reaction time than a human isn't a bad thing. Again when used properly.
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by RudyS »

[/quote]

I think it has the potential to get there, but is not there today. There are certain types of obstacles that autopilot simply can't recognize, which is why human interaction is needed. There are also situations that will be really tough for AI to figure out. For example, whether an object on the road is a cardboard box or a piece of metal equipment makes a big difference in a decision to just hit the object or swerve/emergency brake. AI isn't yet good enough to make that call. It is also unable to drive in inclement weather, and may have difficulty if lane markings end due to road construction.


[/quote]

How would you know there isn't a piece of machinery in that box? Same sort of issue as driving into a pile of leaves - is there a kid in there?

Interesting conjectural example, but not real life for me.
Erwin007
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by Erwin007 »

I don’t have a Tesla. But I also wouldn’t pay for a product I couldn’t use.
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NRI
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by NRI »

TravelforFun wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:01 am Those who have bought Tesla, did you also buy the FSD option? Why or why not? Personally, I find it hard to justify paying $8,000 in advance for an option that you don't know when it will be available.

TravelforFun
No only because my 100D has EAP though, I was eligible for the upgrade at 2K & 3K at different time periods and declined it both times. I'd probably get it on a new vehicle since the jump from basic AP to FSD is significant in driving experience versus EAP to FSD. That said it's a good idea to think of any upgrade in a Tesla in the same light as a your cell phone - there is always going to be something better right around the corner.
tdmp
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by tdmp »

if you believe consumer reports: this makes the current FSD not worthwhile. Maybe just take the $8K and "invest" in TSLA b/c if Tesla ever achieve level 5 autonomy, that $8K might be worth more???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQOf_F6hibk&t=326s
squirm
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by squirm »

alfaspider wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:50 am My take is that most of that stuff is worthless until you have true level 5 autonomy- like you can take a nap or send the car to a remote location with no driver. Even if FSD worked perfectly and fulfilled all promises, it doesn't really do anything for you if you still have to watch the road and be ready to take over at a moment's notice.

And that's not even getting into the absurdity of paying up front for a feature that does not exist and may not ever exist during your ownership.
That's my take too. Unless the car can drive so I can nap or it can drive better then me, I find it worthless.
squirm
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by squirm »

TravelforFun wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:57 am
Valuethinker wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:38 am
alfaspider wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:50 am My take is that most of that stuff is worthless until you have true level 5 autonomy- like you can take a nap or send the car to a remote location with no driver. Even if FSD worked perfectly and fulfilled all promises, it doesn't really do anything for you if you still have to watch the road and be ready to take over at a moment's notice.

And that's not even getting into the absurdity of paying up front for a feature that does not exist and may not ever exist during your ownership.
Worse than useless?

Actively dangerous? Because it encourages driver inattention?

Inattention is what kills drivers, and pedestrians.
I believe autonomous driving is safer than human driving and it's getting better every day. The autonomous driver doesn't text, eat, drink, fall asleep, have medical issues, or road rage. This is why you will see more and more autonomous trucks on the road. Andrew Yang is right when he says truck drivers need to be worried.

TravelforFun
But the autonomous driver doesn't know about the moron coming up from behind two lanes over doing 110 and looking like he's going to try to squeeze between you and the dude in front of you so either back off some and let him do his thing or continue on and get close call or worse.

Driving is all about anticipating what the others are going to do, imo.
Afty
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by Afty »

squirm wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:00 pm
TravelforFun wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:57 am
Valuethinker wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:38 am
alfaspider wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:50 am My take is that most of that stuff is worthless until you have true level 5 autonomy- like you can take a nap or send the car to a remote location with no driver. Even if FSD worked perfectly and fulfilled all promises, it doesn't really do anything for you if you still have to watch the road and be ready to take over at a moment's notice.

And that's not even getting into the absurdity of paying up front for a feature that does not exist and may not ever exist during your ownership.
Worse than useless?

Actively dangerous? Because it encourages driver inattention?

Inattention is what kills drivers, and pedestrians.
I believe autonomous driving is safer than human driving and it's getting better every day. The autonomous driver doesn't text, eat, drink, fall asleep, have medical issues, or road rage. This is why you will see more and more autonomous trucks on the road. Andrew Yang is right when he says truck drivers need to be worried.

TravelforFun
But the autonomous driver doesn't know about the moron coming up from behind two lanes over doing 110 and looking like he's going to try to squeeze between you and the dude in front of you so either back off some and let him do his thing or continue on and get close call or worse.

Driving is all about anticipating what the others are going to do, imo.
An autonomous driver could certainly be aware of that, and probably moreso than a human could given the limitations of human eyesight and attention vs. 360 sensors, vehicle-to-vehicle communication, etc. This is where the promise of self driving lies. Whether we ever get there remains to be seen.
7eight9
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by 7eight9 »

Autonomous #Tesla runs over 8 people in #Sichuan, #China, killing 3, leaving #Shuangfu street with mangled bodies $TSLA $TSLAQ
Quote Tweet

https://twitter.com/hashtag/Shuangfu?src=hash
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squirm
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by squirm »

7eight9 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:15 pm Autonomous #Tesla runs over 8 people in #Sichuan, #China, killing 3, leaving #Shuangfu street with mangled bodies $TSLA $TSLAQ
Quote Tweet

https://twitter.com/hashtag/Shuangfu?src=hash
But in all fairness you could easily replace the word autonomous with drunk and that would ring true many times over.
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Leif
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by Leif »

Tesla goes to great pains to explain this beta software is not autonomous driving. You must confirm your understanding of beta software, on the control panel, before you are allowed to use it. You cannot even take your hands off the wheel for long (maybe 30 seconds) without the car asking you to keep your hands on the wheel. People using defeat mechanisms for this are courting danger. Some are acting like this is the final FSD product. It is not and thinking so can lead to injury or death. I usually only turn it on when I'm alone in the car, since my sudden jerk of the wheel may upset my passengers.

When I have self drive on I'm even more attentive since I DON'T TRUST IT. However, I've read accounts where they said it saved their life by reacting quickly to a dangerous situation before they even realized what was happening (and have video to prove it). So worthless? Absolutely not.
7eight9
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by 7eight9 »

Tesla's 'Full Self-Driving Capability' Falls Short of Its Name
The features might be cutting edge, even cool, but we think buyers should be wary of shelling out $8,000 for what electric car company Tesla calls its Full Self-Driving Capability option. Tesla claims every new vehicle it builds includes all the hardware necessary to be fully autonomous, and the company says that through future over-the-air software updates, its cars should eventually be capable of driving themselves.
But for now, Full Self-Driving Capability, which includes features that can assist the driver with parking, changing lanes on the highway, and even coming to a complete halt at traffic lights and stop signs, remains a misnomer.

https://www.consumerreports.org/autonom ... -its-name/

‘Out of Control’ Tesla Cars Were Behind a Number of Accidents, Report Says
(Yicai Global) Sept. 10 -- Tesla vehicles do 'accelerate unexpectedly,' the National Business Daily reported today, citing a number of car owners despite the US electric car giant insisting there are no such glitches.
There have been four accidents involving ‘out of control’ Tesla vehicles in China since June, each caused by an ‘unexpected acceleration’ of the auto.

https://www.yicaiglobal.com/news/out-of ... eport-says
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by Blueskies123 »

7eight9 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:15 pm Autonomous #Tesla runs over 8 people in #Sichuan, #China, killing 3, leaving #Shuangfu street with mangled bodies $TSLA $TSLAQ
Quote Tweet

https://twitter.com/hashtag/Shuangfu?src=hash
$TSLA is a famous short and hates Telsa because he has lost so much money shorting Tesla. There is nothing in the story that indicated the accident was caused by Tesla. The driver may have had a heart attack or was hit by another car. This is story manipulation and speculation. How many regular cars are in accidents every day. Tesla has one in another country and it is pushed out over the web.
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7eight9
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by 7eight9 »

Blueskies123 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:47 pm
7eight9 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:15 pm Autonomous #Tesla runs over 8 people in #Sichuan, #China, killing 3, leaving #Shuangfu street with mangled bodies $TSLA $TSLAQ
Quote Tweet

https://twitter.com/hashtag/Shuangfu?src=hash
$TSLA is a famous short and hates Telsa because he has lost so much money shorting Tesla. There is nothing in the story that indicated the accident was caused by Tesla. The driver may have had a heart attack or was hit by another car. This is story manipulation and speculation. How many regular cars are in accidents every day. Tesla has one in another country and it is pushed out over the web.
Here is the story from the Global Times (an English-language Chinese newspaper under the People's Daily).

Tesla accident in Sichuan kills 2, raises concerns over safety
An accident in Nanchong, Southwest China's Sichuan Province on Saturday involving a Tesla car killed two people and injured six, police said. The accident has raised concerns among netizens and experts about the popular US electric car brand's safety controls.
The car, driven by a 51-year-old woman, hit multiple vehicles and pedestrians on Saturday afternoon, resulting in two deaths, six injuries and several damaged vehicles, according to a statement released by the traffic police detachment of the Public Security Bureau in Nanchong on Saturday.
According to the statement, the driver was neither drunk nor under the influence of drugs.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1200069.shtml
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harikaried
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by harikaried »

Now with owners sharing videos of Autopilot driving on city streets (make lane changes off highways, select forks to follow your navigation route, navigate around other vehicles and objects, and make left and right turns), Elon Musk says the price is going up by $2k on Monday (October 26th), so $10k when purchased with a new vehicle.

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/co ... d_footage/
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1319164198241341440

Unclear when even most owners will get the new software, but this is at least showing tangible progress for the currently small set of owners.
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by 4nursebee »

We bought it when we bought the car, not sure where the distinction is between it and base car.
We are very happy with out car.
I went to the gym this am, had an alert that I had a software update. SO EXCITED, they must have judged me worthy of early release new FSD! Had a great workout, returned to car to find my priority bluetooth pairing is improved (LOL so hard).
I figure they really have new FSD in background shadow mode to gather data.
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by hightower »

TravelforFun wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:01 am Those who have bought Tesla, did you also buy the FSD option? Why or why not? Personally, I find it hard to justify paying $8,000 in advance for an option that you don't know when it will be available.

TravelforFun
Nope. I ordered a model Y without the FSD. 8k is too much for an experimental technology that is likely illegal in most areas. If you were to cause an accident or injury while using that do you think Tesla would appear in court to back you up? No. The lawyers would eat you alive for driving around without your hands on the wheel or not paying attention to the road.
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by harikaried »

4nursebee wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:30 amI went to the gym this am, had an alert that I had a software update. SO EXCITED, they must have judged me worthy of early release new FSD! I figure they really have new FSD in background shadow mode to gather data.
Yeah, we also got an update to 2020.40.8, which might share the base core code that is used in the 2020.40.8.10 that just has additional code to allow activation of that code. So potentially driving around this latest version will help improve in shadow mode more so than before.

In the mean time, we'll just watch other people's experiences and reactions. Here's a neat image of the developer visualization showing off neural network predictions of the intersection including mid-intersection turn guide lines (Botts' dots in this case):

Image

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0S_aa3-9Hw
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by nisiprius »

itsjustme wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:38 am - Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot.
1) This hardly seems like a more than a gimmick. How often have you ever wished for this?

2) In various videos that have been posted about how the feature works, you are supposed to stay alert and take responsibility for what your car does, so it is more like an "enhanced remote control" than anything truly autonomous--and I don't know what the percentages are, but there have been an impressive number of ludicrous screw-ups posted.

Look at this one, for example. Very seriously: if you had the choice of using the feature as shown in this video, compared to walking to the car, which would you choose? Can you think of any practical use for this other than showing it off to friends?

"Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot, going very very very slowly, while you pay constant attention, with your hands trembling slightly because you are worried, constantly on the alert to take your thumb off the touchscreen if it looks as if it is about to hit a post."
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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by codoriti »

"It may do the wrong thing at the worst time, click here to install." :|

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving Option

Post by casun »

full self driving is the best thing since sliced bread. and it keeps getting better. and better.
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