Going back to the office

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Topic Author
Thegame14
Posts: 1666
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 11:53 am

Going back to the office

Post by Thegame14 »

I have been working from home since March. Got laid off by employer in July, working through me September as a consultant for same employer. Layoff related to drop in revenue do to COVID-19 being more than 50% of company revenue has been lost. I am immune compromised, my 5 year old is immune compromised and my 18 month old has medical issues with allergies and his kidney's so he has not been cleared to attend daycare, we have an appointment in a few weeks with his urologist to clear him with the thought of sending him to daycare 2 days a week.

I am interviewing for new jobs with the thought that I will continue working from home until at least January 2021 waiting for a proven vaccine and then a few months to make sure of side effects and how effective it is.

Got a call from a recruiter about a solid permanent job, small company 15 person office, but they want me to work in the office. I tried to explain that myself and both my childred are immune compromised and that qualifies me for ADA ,and in NJ Gov Murphy's EO says "anyone who CAN work from home MUST work from home", so the company is technically violating the EO, but the owner apparently doesn't care and the reason the role is open is the person working from home apparently was taking advantage too much of being at home and not working.

I asked how the company being responsible for keeping everyone safe, including reasonable accommodations for people like my who are ADA, he went off on a tirade that COVID-19 is gone and EVERYONE is working in an office again, but not one person I know who is WFM has gone back yet. So how would or do if you went back, feel comfortable working in an office, where your "personal risk level" is basically ZERO risk, since myself and two kids are high risk. I hate to say I have to choose between a job and possibly burying a child.

I already asked if everyone is following the laws and wearing a mask 100% of the time and not trying to pull BS like saying I don't have to wear a mask inmy personal office, and he said of course everyone takes their mask off in their own office, which of course is also not allowed, so I am not sure what I can do if I get offered the job to lower my risk, especially since I am not sure I can wear a mask all day since I have asthma. can I ask them to install the UV lights that kill the virus in my office or in the office in general? How is everyone else handling this? Otherwise looks like a solid job, controller for a small company, reporting to owner, 3 direct reports, 100-130K with 4% 401K match and 5-10% profit sharing, 15 minute commute.
delamer
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Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: Going back to the office

Post by delamer »

Honestly, with all the concerns you’ve raised I’d be surprised if you got an offer.

You are in a difficult position and you have my sympathy. I don’t have any good answers for your dilemma, especially given that you personally may not be able to wear a mask for extended periods.
atikovi
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Location: Suburban Washington DC

Re: Going back to the office

Post by atikovi »

Thegame14 wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:23 pmI hate to say I have to choose between a job and possibly burying a child.
Can't you send the kids away to live somewhere else or can't you find an apartment just for yourself to live in until the vaccine comes out in a few months?
Topic Author
Thegame14
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Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 11:53 am

Re: Going back to the office

Post by Thegame14 »

an apartment and not live with my kids for $120K job??? I don't think so, they pay would have to be at least triple that to not see my kids for many months, the vaccine might be another 6 months away, so probably have to be closer to $1M a year to keep my away from my kids.
delamer
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Re: Going back to the office

Post by delamer »

Thegame14 wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:32 pm an apartment and not live with my kids for $120K job??? I don't think so, they pay would have to be at least triple that to not see my kids for many months, the vaccine might be another 6 months away, so probably have to be closer to $1M a year to keep my away from my kids.
You asked for ideas and people are trying to help.

No need to be snarky.
Topic Author
Thegame14
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Re: Going back to the office

Post by Thegame14 »

delamer wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:33 pm
Thegame14 wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:32 pm an apartment and not live with my kids for $120K job??? I don't think so, they pay would have to be at least triple that to not see my kids for many months, the vaccine might be another 6 months away, so probably have to be closer to $1M a year to keep my away from my kids.
You asked for ideas and people are trying to help.

No need to be snarky.
didn't mean to be snarky, but asking someone to leave their wife and kids for 6 months for a job that pays $120K seems like insanity.
delamer
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Re: Going back to the office

Post by delamer »

Thegame14 wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:34 pm
delamer wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:33 pm
Thegame14 wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:32 pm an apartment and not live with my kids for $120K job??? I don't think so, they pay would have to be at least triple that to not see my kids for many months, the vaccine might be another 6 months away, so probably have to be closer to $1M a year to keep my away from my kids.
You asked for ideas and people are trying to help.

No need to be snarky.
didn't mean to be snarky, but asking someone to leave their wife and kids for 6 months for a job that pays $120K seems like insanity.
Nobody is asking you to do anything. It was a suggestion that living apart temporarily might be a possible option.

If it’s not, it’s not.

The core questions are 1) how long can you meet your financial obligations without a job and 2) what are the long-term consequences to your career of being (possibly) unemployed for an extended period?
Topic Author
Thegame14
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Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 11:53 am

Re: Going back to the office

Post by Thegame14 »

delamer wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:40 pm
Thegame14 wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:34 pm
delamer wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:33 pm
Thegame14 wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:32 pm an apartment and not live with my kids for $120K job??? I don't think so, they pay would have to be at least triple that to not see my kids for many months, the vaccine might be another 6 months away, so probably have to be closer to $1M a year to keep my away from my kids.
You asked for ideas and people are trying to help.

No need to be snarky.
didn't mean to be snarky, but asking someone to leave their wife and kids for 6 months for a job that pays $120K seems like insanity.
Nobody is asking you to do anything. It was a suggestion that living apart temporarily might be a possible option.

If it’s not, it’s not.

The core questions are 1) how long can you meet your financial obligations without a job and 2) what are the long-term consequences to your career of being (possibly) unemployed for an extended period?
Mortgage in forebearance til Nov 1, if I am at home, no daycare costs, savings about $80K cash, wife works makes $65K and I have unemployement for a year, which right now is $1K per week.
xenochrony
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Location: California

Re: Going back to the office

Post by xenochrony »

Yes, its a difficult situation. But you should consider the possibility that the vaccine may be much longer than 6 months away, may never come, or may have an unfavorable safety / efficacy profile. Im not trying to be pessimistic, i work for a firm that develops covid vaccines and we need to be prepared for any possible outcome. I would also point out that there is no such thing as zero risk.
scout1
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:26 pm

Re: Going back to the office

Post by scout1 »

Don't take the job, not even a close decision. Your wife works, you get unemployment for a year and it sounds like this company totally sucks. Also, I think you should have been even more snarky to atikovi's suggestion. You'd be lucky to NOT receive an offer.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Going back to the office

Post by TomatoTomahto »

atikovi wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:31 pm
Thegame14 wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:23 pmI hate to say I have to choose between a job and possibly burying a child.
Can't you send the kids away to live somewhere else or can't you find an apartment just for yourself to live in until the vaccine comes out in a few months?
The math on keeping two households running doesn’t add up. Additionally, as a family who has risk factors, I don’t think a vaccine (let’s say, optimistically, 90% effective) would get me back in the office.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
stoptothink
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Re: Going back to the office

Post by stoptothink »

xenochrony wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:45 pmI would also point out that there is no such thing as zero risk.
This. Quite frankly, I'd be shocked if there was an offer on the table if the conversation went as OP suggested it did. Sometimes in life you have to make difficult decisions.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Going back to the office

Post by TomatoTomahto »

stoptothink wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:50 pm
xenochrony wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:45 pmI would also point out that there is no such thing as zero risk.
This. Quite frankly, I'd be shocked if there was an offer on the table if the conversation went as OP suggested it did. Sometimes in life you have to make difficult decisions.
And some decisions are not difficult. The consequences might be unfortunate, but the decisions are not difficult.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
stan1
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Re: Going back to the office

Post by stan1 »

Tough one, all I can suggest is that you think of risk on a 1 to 10 scale rather than binary 0 or 1. For example hiking in the wilderness by yourself might be a 1 and going to a dance club packed with people drinking alcohol, yelling, and singing without masks might be a 10. A private office is less risky than a cubicle. A 20,000 square foot building with 20 people in it is less risky than a 20,000 square foot building with 200 people. An office with a window that opens might be less risky than an office without a window.

You have to make your own decisions based on the information you can glean by talking to your physicians and personal research of whatever facts you can find.

I do have to agree the offer is likely withdrawn and maybe employer really isn't a good match. May be a lesson learned though.
Last edited by stan1 on Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Topic Author
Thegame14
Posts: 1666
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 11:53 am

Re: Going back to the office

Post by Thegame14 »

xenochrony wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:45 pm Yes, its a difficult situation. But you should consider the possibility that the vaccine may be much longer than 6 months away, may never come, or may have an unfavorable safety / efficacy profile. Im not trying to be pessimistic, i work for a firm that develops covid vaccines and we need to be prepared for any possible outcome. I would also point out that there is no such thing as zero risk.
I know, I wasn't planning on getting laid off, and my employer knew I was going to stay working at home until at least the beginning of 2021, so the plan was to stay WFM until at least early 2021.
delamer
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Re: Going back to the office

Post by delamer »

Thegame14 wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:43 pm
delamer wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:40 pm
Thegame14 wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:34 pm
delamer wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:33 pm
Thegame14 wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:32 pm an apartment and not live with my kids for $120K job??? I don't think so, they pay would have to be at least triple that to not see my kids for many months, the vaccine might be another 6 months away, so probably have to be closer to $1M a year to keep my away from my kids.
You asked for ideas and people are trying to help.

No need to be snarky.
didn't mean to be snarky, but asking someone to leave their wife and kids for 6 months for a job that pays $120K seems like insanity.
Nobody is asking you to do anything. It was a suggestion that living apart temporarily might be a possible option.

If it’s not, it’s not.

The core questions are 1) how long can you meet your financial obligations without a job and 2) what are the long-term consequences to your career of being (possibly) unemployed for an extended period?
Mortgage in forebearance til Nov 1, if I am at home, no daycare costs, savings about $80K cash, wife works makes $65K and I have unemployement for a year, which right now is $1K per week.
Without knowing your expenses, it’s impossible to say how long you can survive financially with those assets/income.

A year?

What options do you have for contractor or temp work with your controller background?
Topic Author
Thegame14
Posts: 1666
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 11:53 am

Re: Going back to the office

Post by Thegame14 »

stan1 wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:53 pm Tough one, all I can suggest is that you think of risk on a 1 to 10 scale rather than binary 0 or 1. For example hiking in the wilderness by yourself might be a 1 and going to a dance club packed with people drinking alcohol, yelling, and singing without masks might be a 10. A private office is less risky than a cubicle. A 20,000 square foot building with 20 people in it is less risky than a 20,000 square foot building with 200 people. An office with a window that opens might be less risky than an office without a window.

You have to make your own decisions based on the information you can glean by talking to your physicians and personal research of whatever facts you can find.

I do have to agree the offer is likely withdrawn and maybe employer really isn't a good match. May be a lesson learned though.
these were discussion with the recruiting firm, not the company
Topic Author
Thegame14
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Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 11:53 am

Re: Going back to the office

Post by Thegame14 »

delamer wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:55 pm
Thegame14 wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:43 pm
delamer wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:40 pm
Thegame14 wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:34 pm
delamer wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:33 pm

You asked for ideas and people are trying to help.

No need to be snarky.
didn't mean to be snarky, but asking someone to leave their wife and kids for 6 months for a job that pays $120K seems like insanity.
Nobody is asking you to do anything. It was a suggestion that living apart temporarily might be a possible option.

If it’s not, it’s not.

The core questions are 1) how long can you meet your financial obligations without a job and 2) what are the long-term consequences to your career of being (possibly) unemployed for an extended period?
Mortgage in forebearance til Nov 1, if I am at home, no daycare costs, savings about $80K cash, wife works makes $65K and I have unemployement for a year, which right now is $1K per week.
Without knowing your expenses, it’s impossible to say how long you can survive financially with those assets/income.

A year?

What options do you have for contractor or temp work with your controller background?
Two weeks ago I talked to two separate requiters about two separate 6 month contractor jobs, one senior accountant paying $37 an hour and another accounting manager paying $50 per hour, both WFM, but haven't heard back from either, so that would be the ideal to at worst case, get a contractor job WFM for a few months until things get better.
penumbra
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Re: Going back to the office

Post by penumbra »

OMG! Read your own post. Don't do it! The risks are immense. Wouldn't be worth it no matter what the salary. You'll never forgive yourself if the virus hits you or your family.k What would you advise someone to do if someone else had made your post?
stan1
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: Going back to the office

Post by stan1 »

Thegame14 wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:56 pm these were discussion with the recruiting firm, not the company
Sorry, I missed that. How would recruiter know the answers? Get past the intermediary. Go in for an interview and check out the work environment for yourself. Worry about the details after you have an offer.
Misenplace
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Re: Going back to the office

Post by Misenplace »

This thread has run its course and is locked (topic exhausted, primarily medical and family concerns). See: Locked Topics
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