Lead paint and house offer accepted

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workingovertime
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Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by workingovertime »

We're 2nd time home buyers and our offer was accepted just yesterday. Our 1st home was new so never worried about lead.
Now we have a 1 year old and my spouse and I are super conflicted about 1) lead inspection issue 2) actual dangers of lead for very young child

For issue #1) We didn't read the lead disclosure document carefully for homes build before 1978 and waived the right to inspect for lead. Seller says they are not aware of any lead on the document. Realtor says inspector can check for lead anyways and not a big deal since if inspector finds lead, we can walk away from the deal for any other reasons and get our deposit back anyways. If inspection turns out there are no lead, then of course we just continue the buy. We're conflicted about this advice and have inspection scheduled Saturday.

For issue #2) Research online seems varied on dangers of lead to children. I know this is a financial forum but we're hoping there are some past experiences we can get out out here. We're not really worried about us as much, mostly our kid who obviously loves to put everything in his mouth and crawl. When we viewed the house 2 days ago before putting in an offer, house paint and all APPEARED to be in good condition and not chipping, etc, but of course we didn't look carefully so could be very wrong. Wife is extremely concerned about lead dust getting airborne. It seems like from our research most people don't even get lead test and we seem to be the oddity of wanting this done during a purchase. We're almost baffled that more people doesn't care about this issue with children at home, but at the same time, trying to keep level-headed. We're in Florida so understand that more homes than not are older. Even for whatever reason we walked away from this house, we definitely want to make a decision about how we feel about our house having lead and whether to avoid it or accept it and being careful.
runner540
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by runner540 »

No medical advice but if you’re worried about the paint issue, Did you also test water for lead?
Watts
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by Watts »

We live in a house from the 40s and have small kids. We had to sign the lead waiver as well. When our kids turned 1, we had the pediatrician test their lead levels, which were undetectable.

The best thing you can do is to make sure your paint is well maintained. Repaint if you see paint peeling, particularly doors and windows. Wash hands and teach your kids to wash their hands when they touch any surfaces with paint.

Also, if you are planning on doing any extensive remodeling (kitchen, bathroom, etc), I would not recommend trying to stay in the house during this remodel. Also make sure lead safe practices are applied during any renovation. It’s an added cost, but it’s the law and it keeps your family safe.
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teen persuasion
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by teen persuasion »

Good advice from Watts.

We have a home built in the 1840s, and we've raised 5 kids here with no lead health issues.

(Medical advice deleted by moderator Flyer24)
daheld
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by daheld »

If you're on Bogleheads asking about this, chances are you're a good enough parent that you'll notice if your kids are eating paint.

Lead paint is exceedingly common. I am not saying it isn't a hazard, but if you're diligent about making sure it's maintained and not being messed with, you don't have much to worry about.
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Sandtrap
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by Sandtrap »

Older residences: (And some in newer)
Lead in paint
Asbestos in floor tiles and fire insulation
Silicates in insulation (also newer homes)
Toxins in water from source (test)
Lead in water from lead soldered copper water lines.
Cancer causing construction materials
Herbicides and pesticides in exterior landscaping and lawns
Airborne local toxins
Etc.

Buy a home you can trust from day one or you will never be comfortable in it. There is no middle path of reassurance here given your level of concerns.
j🌺

OTOH
Lead and toxins in toys, products, foods and processed foods (huge), etc.
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Nowizard
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by Nowizard »

It is like many other things that have known downsides and known upsides. You know your personality. Some would never consider a house with lead or asbestos for themselves, much less for their children and would consider doing so rationalization or worse. Others have differing opinions. Analogy is pertinent with opinions regarding reactions to Covid19 and related "safety" responses. Ultimately, your choice.

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aristotelian
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by aristotelian »

Watts wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:26 am We live in a house from the 40s and have small kids. We had to sign the lead waiver as well. When our kids turned 1, we had the pediatrician test their lead levels, which were undetectable.

The best thing you can do is to make sure your paint is well maintained. Repaint if you see paint peeling, particularly doors and windows. Wash hands and teach your kids to wash their hands when they touch any surfaces with paint.

Also, if you are planning on doing any extensive remodeling (kitchen, bathroom, etc), I would not recommend trying to stay in the house during this remodel. Also make sure lead safe practices are applied during any renovation. It’s an added cost, but it’s the law and it keeps your family safe.
This was our approach as well. We were told not to even test because if the house was built before the 70's it is certain to have lead paint. We used common sense and had the kids tested when they were young just to make sure.

Also don't plant any garden vegetables you plan to eat anywhere near the house itself.
PoppyA
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by PoppyA »

Abate the paint.
orangeinvestor
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by orangeinvestor »

What your realtor says is reasonable. Sales contracts vary from state to state, but I recommend you read the inspections clause very carefully. It likely says that you can terminate the contract up to the inspection contingency date without necessarily having to provide a reason or even negotiate with the seller. It will be in (almost) plain language in your sales contract so you can verify for yourself.

If there is lead paint, there are many ways to remediate it - I would do that and not rely on teaching your kids not to chew on doors, windows, etc.
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Quercus Palustris
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by Quercus Palustris »

I grew up in a house from the 1940s, lead (and asbestos!) all over - the outside paint, enamel paint on the radiators, the folks I sold it to after settling the estate tested and even found it on the glazing of the bath tub. I didn't know about that one, but I guess it can be a concern if you think the child may drink bath water. Not sure how much bath water would be an issue, but the simplest solution is having the tub reglazed or a bath fitter installed.

I don't recall being tempted to eat the ever present paint chips flaking off the radiators, but I think I was about 3 or 4 when we moved in so I may have known better.

If you want to be thorough, you may want to see if your state university agricultural extension does soil testing. We had "above background" levels of lead in the soil in the flower bed close to where old lead paint and parging would crack off the concrete exterior walls. The recommendation was to not grow root vegetables or let a child play in that soil (kids putting their fingers in their mouths and all), and to wash all fruit/veg before eating.

Edit: re your immediate concerns, lead can be dealt with. And any house built before the 70s, AFAIK, almost certainly has it somewhere. You can buy a simple test at HD/Lowes/Amazon that changes color on exposure to lead and check for yourselves. Some remediation is cheap (latex paint over old lead, be careful when drilling in walls, don't use a sander), some costs a little (tub glazing) and some may be more expensive (I had the concrete parging removed and replaced, contractor charged more for EPA compliant safety measures and disposal).
Last edited by Quercus Palustris on Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Barcelonasteve
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by Barcelonasteve »

I think there’s an episode of This Old House that shows an abatement for lead paint. A guy went around scraping molding corners and window sill edges down to the wood. The idea was to eliminate the lead paint on any surface that a small child was like to chew. If you want peace of mind, hire an expert who know what to look for.
barnaclebob
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by barnaclebob »

If you are worried about lead, dont buy an old house. It will be there unless its been taken down to the studs at some point.
PhooBooKhoo
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by PhooBooKhoo »

When I was a child we spinkled lead paint chips on our cereal and liked it. Except now I can't spell spinkled.
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galawdawg
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by galawdawg »

workingovertime wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:19 am We're 2nd time home buyers and our offer was accepted just yesterday. Our 1st home was new so never worried about lead.
Now we have a 1 year old and my spouse and I are super conflicted about 1) lead inspection issue 2) actual dangers of lead for very young child

For issue #1) We didn't read the lead disclosure document carefully for homes build before 1978 and waived the right to inspect for lead. Seller says they are not aware of any lead on the document. Realtor says inspector can check for lead anyways and not a big deal since if inspector finds lead, we can walk away from the deal for any other reasons and get our deposit back anyways. If inspection turns out there are no lead, then of course we just continue the buy. We're conflicted about this advice and have inspection scheduled Saturday.

For issue #2) Research online seems varied on dangers of lead to children. I know this is a financial forum but we're hoping there are some past experiences we can get out out here. We're not really worried about us as much, mostly our kid who obviously loves to put everything in his mouth and crawl. When we viewed the house 2 days ago before putting in an offer, house paint and all APPEARED to be in good condition and not chipping, etc, but of course we didn't look carefully so could be very wrong. Wife is extremely concerned about lead dust getting airborne. It seems like from our research most people don't even get lead test and we seem to be the oddity of wanting this done during a purchase. We're almost baffled that more people doesn't care about this issue with children at home, but at the same time, trying to keep level-headed. We're in Florida so understand that more homes than not are older. Even for whatever reason we walked away from this house, we definitely want to make a decision about how we feel about our house having lead and whether to avoid it or accept it and being careful.
Not being critical but how did you get from so unconcerned just two or so days ago that you didn't read the lead disclosures carefully and waived any right to inspect for lead to extremely concerned this morning? What changed?

Unless the home inspector is certified to test for lead-based paint, your realtor is mistaken as EPA certification is required in order for an inspector to perform that testing. So if you want to know if there is lead-based paint, be sure the home inspector you hire also has the proper certification by the EPA.

These links may be helpful.

https://www.epa.gov/lead/questions-and- ... tions-risk

http://www.floridahealth.gov/environmen ... wners.html

Good luck!
LiterallyIronic
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by LiterallyIronic »

I have a pre-1978 house and our documents included a "possible lead paint" warning and bought a house with a seven-month-old. The house inspection revealed that the outermost layer of paint was not lead-based, but that didn't mean that there couldn't be lead-based paint underneath. No way to know without peeling off layer(s) of paint. Our research indicated that, as long as people weren't chewing on the wall in order to bite through layers of paint, then it'd be fine.

Note: none of this is to be construed as medical or legal advice. I am not a doctor or attorney, nor do we have a client-professional relationship.
shyturtle
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by shyturtle »

We went through lead testing several times while shopping for our current house. We were looking in a neighborhood mostly built in the 1920s so lead paint was going to be a possible issue in almost any house we considered.

I think other posters are correct, if it is going to bother you or your wife you need to either get the house tested or buy a newer house. I know other people raise kids in houses with lead paint. I almost certainly grew up in one myself, but I did not want to look suspiciously at surfaces in my house to make sure they were intact for the next 10 years as my kids grow up. It took us over a year to find our current house, partially because we were so picky about the lead paint issue.

We had offers accepted on three houses during our search, all constructed around 1920, and we had all three tested for lead paint during the inspection process. The results varied enormously. One house had lead paint all over. Window sills, doorframes, built in cabinets, all sorts of problematic surfaces. Lead paint on walls is not a big deal since it tends not to chip or peel, but lead paint on mouthable surfaces like window sills, or friction surfaces, like door frames, is considered a hazard. Abatement for that house would have been incredibly expensive and we walked away. The other two houses had very little lead paint. One owner provided no information on the disclosure but at some point substantial abatement had been performed. The house we purchased is craftsman style and all of the interior trim is either varnished wood or more recently painted. However, there was no way to predict that the paint was recent without the testing and we went into the inspection knowing that we might have to walk away again.

We did have to do some abatement. To give an idea of the cost, we needed to scrape parts of three door frames and cover a few exterior window sills. Very minimal. It still cost over $3,000. Abatement is very expensive, so with your level of concern I would be very hesitant to move forward on the house without full testing.
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jabberwockOG
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by jabberwockOG »

If the paint is in good condition and tightly bound to the surface it is unlikely to be a hazard in significant amounts. What can be dangerous is sanding and demo work on the painted surfaces that may release lead particles into the air.
GMT-8
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by GMT-8 »

As other posters have said, if you are so very worried at this point, then buy another house because there is no rational reason for your worry and no rational way for us to talk you out of it. But I will comment anyway.

I live in a house built in 1952 in a neighborhood first settled in 1910. That makes it ancient in California!

Like others have said about old houses, our house has had asbestos furnace pipes, questionable blown-in insulation (now gone), chimney that may topple over, unstable soil, flammable roof, declared to be in a flood zone even though 150 feet above sea level which is one mile away, near a flight path of an airport, etc. It undoubtedly has some lead paint somewhere, but we have painted all of it twice already and some three times. We replaced all the windows and doors for other reasons.

And we have been here 30 years and with no ill effects on our family or guests, the neighborhood was and still is safe, it has quadrupled in value, etc. These remediation and restoration efforts are part of ANY home ownership as are the risks.

Best of luck to you,

GMT
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (house).

Thanks to the member who reported the post. One of the reasons is "Wrong forum".
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LittleMaggieMae
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by LittleMaggieMae »

Odds are any lead paint in an older home on walls, doorframes, baseboards, window sills is under several coats of non-lead paint. The danger comes from "wear and tear" - so if the paint chips or gets worn away. The DUST that gets on your kids hands and then in their mouth or the chips they play with (or that are left out and deteriorate into dust) is often the issue.

Be aware that anytime you "damage" the non-lead paint coating - you expose "lead paint dust flakes" - so when you put a new hole in the wall to hang a picture, or your kid throws something and dents a wall (breaks the paint creates dust) or damages a painted door frame or window sill, or the sun/rain/hot/cold cycles damage the paint on your window sills, you get to the lead paint. This sounds awful - but the solution is pretty simple - clean up promptly after putting pictures/shelves/whatever on a wall. If the drywall (or plaster) gets damaged - fix it and repaint and clean up the mess promptly. Keep your painted door frames and windowsills in good working order (clean, repair, repaint).

If you've got an older home - it's all part of normal maintenance. Take care of your home and even with lead paint your home will take care of you.

I've got lead paint and lead water pipes (and I may have asbestos under the linoleum kitchen floor). It just means I have different "chores" to keep my house from shedding "lead paint dust" and to keep my drinking water safe than people who live in houses without lead paint and without lead pipes. I'm sure they have other issues that have "chores" associated with to keep them safe from the dangerous things in their homes.
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ClevrChico
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by ClevrChico »

I have an older residence and treat any paint as lead paint. It just requires being careful. Both kids had their lead levels test below thresholds.

Even modern glazed plates and mugs have lead in them, along with countless other products. :oops: At least we're not burning it in our vehicles.
Teague
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by Teague »

An very occasional ingested small flake of the old paint shouldn't be a problem so just be slightly vigilant; as Paracelsus said, it's the dose that makes the poison.

I'd actually be more concerned about the dirt around the house, and getting that tested. Small kids love to eat dirt, or at least a lot of them do. There's a good chance that through the years painters sanded and scraped the existing paint before applying a new coat, and of course in the good old days that dust and those flakes just landed in the soil and nobody worried about it. This is a common route of exposure for the kids who actually develop significantly elevated blood lead levels.
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galawdawg
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by galawdawg »

One other thing to be aware of is that if you purchase a home that has lead-based paint and hire any contractors, painters or other similar trades to perform remodeling or renovation work, they may be required (depending on the scope of the work) to follow certain practices which could increase the cost of the work. Here is some additional information on that consideration: http://www2.epa.gov/sites/production/fi ... /steps.pdf
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by iamlucky13 »

I agree with Watts - make sure to keep the paint in good condition. This is consistent with EPA and HUD recommendations. If lead paint is known to be present, some organizations recommend periodic blood tests before age 6 to make sure there are no signs of exposure, and as a parent, I would monitor how their normal "stuff in mouth" behavior evolves. Our kids, for example, chewed on furniture some, but never chewed on wall trim, etc (and our house is post-1978 anyways). Also, good containment and cleanup should be followed if doing renovation work that may disturb lead-based paint.

If there was lead-based paint, it likely has several newer coats over it, which will further help against flaking and absorption.

People vary in their level of concern about lead paint because, frankly, there is zero good consumer-level information on the risk, so people tend to just follow their initial reaction. The consumer level information is very general - be informed (aware if it is present) and follow the recommended practices to control any risks. The regulatory and academic information is difficult to interpret for most people.

I'm unfamiliar with how you waived your right to inspect for lead. Did your offer exclude that as an offer contingency, or did you sign an addendum when you received the seller disclosures that indicated the disclosures were satisfactory?
daheld wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:47 am Lead paint is exceedingly common. I am not saying it isn't a hazard, but if you're diligent about making sure it's maintained and not being messed with, you don't have much to worry about.
It is relatively common, but not exceedingly. It's use was declining by the 1950's. The EPA estimates 24% of houses built between 1960 and the 1978 ban contain leaded paint compared to 69% of those build between 1940 and 1959 (source, page 4). Per the census bureau, close to half of the homes in the country were built after 1978. So it used to be exceedingly common, but I wouldn't describe it as so any longer.
Last edited by iamlucky13 on Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
folkher0
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by folkher0 »

daheld wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:47 am If you're on Bogleheads asking about this, chances are you're a good enough parent that you'll notice if your kids are eating paint.

Lead paint is exceedingly common. I am not saying it isn't a hazard, but if you're diligent about making sure it's maintained and not being messed with, you don't have much to worry about.
Lead dust is probably more of an issue than lead paint chips. It can be shed from older surfaces, often in places you are not looking (think between storm windows, behind molding, etc). If you live in an old house with young children they should be screened periodically. If levels are elevated, you may need abatement. It happens.
dbr
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by dbr »

I'll just add two redundant points:

1. If you are really worried don't buy a house that might have the hazard, whatever it is, from lead paint to radon to formaldehyde in carpets and materials to deer ticks in the woods. Also don't live in areas prone to hurricanes, or floods, or fires, or tornados.

2. If you are really worried test for the hazard. For lead that is blood tests for everyone -- on going.
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by cheese_breath »

How old is the house you're considering? If it's old enough it could have lead pipes or lead in the faucets.
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

I live in a pre 1978 home. Upon purchasing the home we were provided a disclosure that stated homeowners were unaware of any lead paint. That said, we painted the home from top and sides and refinishing the wood floors. My child never ate paint chips and has not tested positive for lead exposure. I’d be more concerned about the radon level in the home and would replace old pipes if they are made of lead or brass. Yes, old homes can have brass pipes. The former homeowner abated the asbestos covered pipes. I changed all the electrical wiring.
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bighatnohorse
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by bighatnohorse »

It does not take much lead . . .micrograms. . .
Participants who were found to carry more than 10 micrograms of lead per deciliter of blood at age 11 had IQs at age 38 that were, on average, 4.25 points lower than their less lead-exposed peers. They were also found to have lost IQ points relative to their own childhood scores.

The study found that for each 5-microgram increase in blood lead, a person lost about 1.5 IQ points.
https://today.duke.edu/2017/03/lead-exp ... %20scores.
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celia
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by celia »

What does your realtor mean that the house inspector will "check for lead"? Is he supposed to crack the paint on every wall to see what's under it? Is he supposed to scrape off some of the popcorn ceiling to see what's under it? I doubt the inspector will do anything other than the regular inspection, especially if you aren't paying extra for extra services.

I think the typical time there is lead/asbestos exposure is during home remodeling. The contractor crew may have to treat the house as if it had lead by draping furniture/floors and wearing face masks so they don't inhale it. If they do observe it, there may have to be a work order added to get rid of it (extra cost and time).
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stickman731
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by stickman731 »

There are many good suggestions. One word of caution - if the house is old enough to have lead paint - I would make sure there are no asbestos issues (tiles, installation) particularly if you plan to renovate kitchen or upgrade heating/cooling system.
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by jharkin »

EVERYBODY checks “ I don’t know” on that disclosure. Most older house owners deliberately don’t get a professional test either because nobody wants to be legally obligated to sign that form yes. Just assume lead is everywhere and take appropriate precautions.

I’ll add another data point. Our first house was 1790s. I know there was lead as I tested myself during some renovations. We used wet methods to remove paint and practiced lead safe renovation techniques. Our kids where born and lived in that house their first 8 years, annual blood lead tests always came back zero.

Just be careful and keep the paint in good repair and you should be ok.

Also, note that just because a house is older is no guarantee of lead. Not even all old paint had lead. Typically glossy exterior and trim paint was most likely to be lead. Pre1900 plaster was often limewashed and that actually had no lead. Really old houses (colonial period) sometimes used milk paints and those didnt have lead either.

Asbestos and lead pipes are more of a pain to deal with and more concerning to me, imho.
Minimax
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by Minimax »

1. I would double check your realtors claim. Depending on state, lead inspection results are tracked in a database. Once lead is found it needs to be disclosed. I’d be surprised sellers would let you do this.

2. If you’re worried about it now, walking or abatement might offer peace of mind. You won’t know cost of abatement until inspection. It’ll depend on how much is found and where.
folkher0
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by folkher0 »

celia wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:16 am
I think the typical time there is lead/asbestos exposure is during home remodeling. The contractor crew may have to treat the house as if it had lead by draping furniture/floors and wearing face masks so they don't inhale it. If they do observe it, there may have to be a work order added to get rid of it (extra cost and time).
This statement is sort of true, but not very relevant.

Risk of exposure may be highest during a remodel. Children should absolutely not be in the house while work is being done. And workers should take precautions.

But...

Lead poisoning is most relevant to young children. While I would not want excess exposure as an adult, the risk of neuro developmental consequences is not relevant to adults. Young children, however are at risk and that’s why public health initiatives are focused on them.

Lead in dust can be present in older houses and not as obvious as chipped paint. Aheavy truck rolls by and causes your old windows to vibrate. Dust particles are created and agitated. Think of a toddler crawling across a floor putting their hands on the floor and in their mouth.

It’s not just about obvious paint chips. Some of this stuff is very hard to see.
retire2022
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by retire2022 »

Op

I am state housing civil servant

The only real way to check for lead is use a Tool called XRF which a certified lead inspector uses. Another was to test for lead is to have random walls tested.

XRF tool most inspectors use to test for lead

Edit: https://youtu.be/0HgvRrw_o-U

Not all walls have lead paint and it maybe splotches of lead.

As far as what is typical for Asbestos materials if they are friable ie easily crumbled by touch or impact it can be airborne.

As long as they are not friable and incased you have nothing to be concerned.

Typical areas in a home which has Asbestos is kitchen Wall in order to slow down a fire, a chimney and ducts, roof tiles and vinyl floor tiles which has Asbestos materials within the product.

In either case you need third party certified testing labs in order to confirm presence of these materials.
Last edited by retire2022 on Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
GoldenFinch
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by GoldenFinch »

I live in area of homes from the 1920s and 30s and they all have lead paint. All children are tested at their annual pediatric visit when they are young (I don’t remember exact age) for lead exposure. Ours all tested very low in the normal range even though we live in a house full of lead paint. We keep up with painting and hire good painters so there are no issues with chipping. The key things I would pay attention to in your situation are lead levels in the water and chipping paint.
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by rkhusky »

folkher0 wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:50 pm Lead in dust can be present in older houses and not as obvious as chipped paint. Aheavy truck rolls by and causes your old windows to vibrate. Dust particles are created and agitated. Think of a toddler crawling across a floor putting their hands on the floor and in their mouth.

It’s not just about obvious paint chips. Some of this stuff is very hard to see.
But lead would have to be in the dust. How would it get there if there were many layers of non-lead-based paint over the lead-based paint from 40+ years ago, and someone has cleaned the house a few times in the past 40 years.
sutemi
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by sutemi »

Much of the dust from paint comes from rubbing surfaces, the windows and doors. Have the windows been replaced since 1978? Toddlers chew on things, but not necessarily the walls :)

I've lived in two older places that we rehabbed that had lead paint. In both cases it was just on a subset of the trim, so replacing the trim and doors took care of it. The windows thesmselves had already been replaced and the walls didn't have lead paint. Hardware stores sell lead test kits, it can be worthwhile to get a few and test all your surfaces.
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bottlecap
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by bottlecap »

Do you let your infant play for long periods unobserved? If not, I wouldn't be too concerned with lead paint. We had a pretty good handle on what our kids put in their mouth because the small ones were almost always in eye-shot. If your child could ingest a decent amount of paint without you noticing and your paint is in poor condition, then it would become (to me) a worry. Otherwise, I imagine there are worse things to worry about.

JT
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Tamarind
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by Tamarind »

My house has lead paint. The seller's disclosure was like the one you were given though they must have suspected & had a toddler. The house is from 1968 so our agent recommended we assume there was lead paint.

There are a couple of things you can do make sure the place is safe for your kid so that I don't think lead paint should stop you moving forward.

1) Lead is mostly not just floating in the air. It's bound to the paint. If your kids don't eat the paint flakes or dust, they won't be exposed. So you should make sure any painted surfaces have a fresh coat of paint. Pay special attention to windows, doors, and trim which don't get painted as often. Obviously don't allow any areas of flaking paint to remain!

2) Damp wipe painted surfaces and vacuum thoroughly to get up any dust that was loose before you painted.

3) You can get home test kits at the hardware store and spot check to make sure that you do not have any remaining exposed lead paint.

4) Supervise your kids until they are past the stage of eating things off the floor.

5) If you do work on the house in future that involves cutting into painted walls or replacing any older painted fixture, assume it's got lead paint and handle with care. Don't breathe the dust. Repeat steps above as needed to reseal.
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workingovertime
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by workingovertime »

We have an update. Maybe this could be helpful for whomever searches a post about lead paint in the future.

We addressed our concern to our realtor and she was able to get an "ok" from the other realtor/seller to perform the lead GUN DETECTION test, but NOT the invasive one where we'd have to take a sample. Lead detection test with XRL gun is known to be extremely accurate and reliable.

Turns out there were no lead paint anywhere interior and exterior! House we're buying is 1975 and the disclosure required when buying a home g is pre-1978. Specialist that came out told us that although the official law was enacted in 1978, thus the disclosure law for for pre-1978 homes, many home builders stopped using lead paint about 1965 or something like that (don't remember exactly) because dangers were already known. He even told us before beginning the test that there is unlikely to be lead paint. We proceeded anyways and it cost us $450 which included weekend call. To us, it was worth every penny just knowing for certain that there is no lead paint Now we can freely drill as many holes as we want without worrying about potential lead poisoning to our 1 year old.
iamlucky13
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by iamlucky13 »

workingovertime wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:54 pm We have an update. Maybe this could be helpful for whomever searches a post about lead paint in the future.

We addressed our concern to our realtor and she was able to get an "ok" from the other realtor/seller to perform the lead GUN DETECTION test, but NOT the invasive one where we'd have to take a sample. Lead detection test with XRL gun is known to be extremely accurate and reliable.

Turns out there were no lead paint anywhere interior and exterior! House we're buying is 1975 and the disclosure required when buying a home g is pre-1978. Specialist that came out told us that although the official law was enacted in 1978, thus the disclosure law for for pre-1978 homes, many home builders stopped using lead paint about 1965 or something like that (don't remember exactly) because dangers were already known. He even told us before beginning the test that there is unlikely to be lead paint. We proceeded anyways and it cost us $450 which included weekend call. To us, it was worth every penny just knowing for certain that there is no lead paint Now we can freely drill as many holes as we want without worrying about potential lead poisoning to our 1 year old.
Glad to hear it. I posted some brief statistics above about lead paint use declining over time. There is no single date where it became uncommon, but it probably would have been some time around 1965 when the proportion of new homes containing lead paint dropped below 50%.

Save the report with your other purchase documents so you have a copy to include in your disclosures if at some time you sell the house.

Don't get too carried away drilling holes just because you can. You don't want to be this guy:
https://xkcd.com/905/
JS-Elcano
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by JS-Elcano »

When I was on the market to buy my first home (also in FL) I definitely checked the year the house was built and what this meant for the potential of lead paint on the walls... and I don't even have children. This is why older houses are a pain, lead paint, lead pipes, asbestos, etc pp. I am so glad I bought a newer house where these issues don't exist. There are enough issues even without those "old house" headaches.
palanzo
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by palanzo »

celia wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:16 am What does your realtor mean that the house inspector will "check for lead"? Is he supposed to crack the paint on every wall to see what's under it? Is he supposed to scrape off some of the popcorn ceiling to see what's under it? I doubt the inspector will do anything other than the regular inspection, especially if you aren't paying extra for extra services.

I think the typical time there is lead/asbestos exposure is during home remodeling. The contractor crew may have to treat the house as if it had lead by draping furniture/floors and wearing face masks so they don't inhale it. If they do observe it, there may have to be a work order added to get rid of it (extra cost and time).
That's exactly what an inspector will do.

https://www.epa.gov/lead/questions-and- ... tions-risk
Dominic
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by Dominic »

aristotelian wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:36 am
Watts wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:26 am We live in a house from the 40s and have small kids. We had to sign the lead waiver as well. When our kids turned 1, we had the pediatrician test their lead levels, which were undetectable.

The best thing you can do is to make sure your paint is well maintained. Repaint if you see paint peeling, particularly doors and windows. Wash hands and teach your kids to wash their hands when they touch any surfaces with paint.

Also, if you are planning on doing any extensive remodeling (kitchen, bathroom, etc), I would not recommend trying to stay in the house during this remodel. Also make sure lead safe practices are applied during any renovation. It’s an added cost, but it’s the law and it keeps your family safe.
This was our approach as well. We were told not to even test because if the house was built before the 70's it is certain to have lead paint. We used common sense and had the kids tested when they were young just to make sure.

Also don't plant any garden vegetables you plan to eat anywhere near the house itself.
This is very important as well. Lead can also Leach into soil from pre-1970s emissions, so I'd also avoid planting foods near a road. You can get your soil tested for lead if you're planning on gardening.
folkher0
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by folkher0 »

rkhusky wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:22 pm
folkher0 wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:50 pm Lead in dust can be present in older houses and not as obvious as chipped paint. Aheavy truck rolls by and causes your old windows to vibrate. Dust particles are created and agitated. Think of a toddler crawling across a floor putting their hands on the floor and in their mouth.

It’s not just about obvious paint chips. Some of this stuff is very hard to see.
But lead would have to be in the dust. How would it get there if there were many layers of non-lead-based paint over the lead-based paint from 40+ years ago, and someone has cleaned the house a few times in the past 40 years.
Sure. It may or may not be an issue. Some old houses are fine. Others may not be. It’s worth having someone look for lead if you have young kids.

It’s not always obvious.
Erwin007
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Re: Lead paint and house offer accepted

Post by Erwin007 »

I’ve never bought any real estate built before 1990. That avoids the lead paint problem right there.
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