PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

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LilyFleur
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by LilyFleur »

000 wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:58 pm
LilyFleur wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:57 pm I have lamps on my bedside tables and on a table by the sofa for those reasons. They are less powerful lights, so when I dim them they are very soft.
Thanks. I assume this requires that the lamp have a dimmable fixture?
My lamps don't have dimmers built into them; I just bought the dimmers on cords that you plug your lamp into.
VaR
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by VaR »

livesoft wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:35 pm We have mostly incandescent light bulbs and a few fluorescent ones. We replace bulbs as they burn out in our 3300+ square foot home. That's about 1 bulb every 5 years. Going solar would not be helpful either.

Instead of changing to LED light bulbs, I'd say: Turn off your damn lights!
Besides saving money, I like LED bulbs because I don't have to get the ladder out of the basement, replace the bulb, then drag the ladder back to the basement. In fact, I don't remember the last time I had to replace a bulb in the last few years.

I replaced a bunch of bulbs in high use locations while I had the ladder out, but now I just have a few like the foyer light or the "hallway light between the bathroom and the laundry room" left. I figure I'll replace those when they burn out - though it's likely the LED replacements will outlast me. :)

I've shopped around to find bulbs with both a color temperature and CRI that I like.

At this point, LEDs are so cheap that you'll always save money with an LED on a natural replacement basis.

Oh, and I'm personally fascinated by the new "vintage filament" LED bulbs:
https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/led- ... que-bulbs/
Teague
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by Teague »

000 wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:32 pm
adamthesmythe wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:30 pm
000 wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:38 pm
RetiredAL wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:35 pm The only negative to LED's and compact fluorescence lights, is that they occasionally let 'the smoke' out. Stinky smoke!

I had one do that just 2 nights ago.
And (for CFLs) having Mercury in a glass bulb in your house :shock:
Unless you break the bulb it's not a problem. Dispose of them properly, however.

I recently replaced all the bulbs (many were still incandescent) with LED bulbs. Prices reached the point where it made sense to do it all once. The kitchen had 8 (count 'em) 80W incandescent floodlights.
Sure, just like using a mercury thermometer in your mouth isn't a problem if you don't bite down.
Not a problem if you do bite down either. Elemental mercury is not appreciably absorbed from the GI tract or through skin, especially in a relatively small exposure like this. As for CFL bulbs, the ~2mg in there is not enough to pose a health risk from an occasional exposure. On a population level, disposing of them properly is of course good, but breaking one is not dangerous.
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FrugalInvestor
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by FrugalInvestor »

jebmke wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:19 pm haven't used incandescent bulbs in years. On the other hand, we also don't leave lights on all the time. Almost all are off during the day when natural light is usually adequate (some exceptions).
If you're interested in changing you should look again. I was never a fan of the white light created by early LEDs. The 2700K bulbs have become MUCH more common.....maybe even more common now than the older overly white ones. The newer 2700k LED bulbs also shed light in a much wider pattern than many of the old ones did. The LEDs that I recently purchased from Costco at a very reasonable price are indistinguishable from incandescents in my opinion.

I even read an article recently about interior design trends saying that the old white LEDs are out and the newer white ones are 'in,' so I'm now 'in.' 8-) Another good reason to "just stand there" because eventually you'll be 'in' again. :D
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify, but most importantly....Ignore the Noise!
dukeblue219
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by dukeblue219 »

000 wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:11 pm I haven't been able to find LED replacements for the ultra low light output bulbs (15w traditional). Have you seen them?
Look for nighttime bulbs or sleep improving bulbs, something like that. For example, we have https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IJ574PQ in our youngest kid's room. They advertise it as 40w equivalent but its only 275 lumens with a very warm color temperature of 2100K. It lights a bedroom enough to read a story and too much to sleep by, but nobody would ever call it bright, either. The color may be too "warm" though, even compared to incandescent.

For the master bedroom, the bedside tables have https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H49N46N installed, which also call themselves 40w equivalent but make 450 lumens, which sounds much closer to an old 40w bulb. The temperature on that product is 2200K and it's great for reading in bed.
increment
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by increment »

Note that not all LED bulbs are created the same. They come with widely varying lifetimes (typically correlated with price).
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Pete12
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by Pete12 »

Check if your local utility has a marketplace program. Ours had a deal this week: a pack of 20 GE 10 watt 120 volt A19 Medium Screw Base 2700K Dimmable LED Bulbs for less than $11 including tax and shipping!
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Bogle7
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Warm LEDs

Post by Bogle7 »

000 wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:18 pm Have never found a replacement for incandescents that is as soft and gentle.
Look for 2700 K temperature.
sport
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by sport »

I have some indoor flood lights in my kitchen ceiling. I believe they are PAR30 size. I am using 1000 lumen incandescent bulbs because the LED replacements I have found are only 850 lumens, and I want the amount of light I have.
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by Norgeiron »

One Ping wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:46 pm Do they make 3- way LED bulbs?

The kind that would replace the old 60/75/150 W incandescents. I remember looking a (long?) while ago and didn't find any.
Yes, they do, but they are absurdly expensive. I saw one in Target that was $19.99 for one three way LED bulb. The floor lamp I was buying it for cost $8.
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by HoberMallow »

sport wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:13 pm I have some indoor flood lights in my kitchen ceiling. I believe they are PAR30 size. I am using 1000 lumen incandescent bulbs because the LED replacements I have found are only 850 lumens, and I want the amount of light I have.
Here is one that is 1050 lumens.

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/99880 ... 0KNFL.html
Norgeiron wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:51 pm Yes, they do, but they are absurdly expensive. I saw one in Target that was $19.99 for one three way LED bulb. The floor lamp I was buying it for cost $8.
I found several for around $5 each.

https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/3-wa ... ght-bulbs/

As indicated in the OP, if it’s a light you use frequently the LED bulb will pay for itself in a few months.
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Re: Warm LEDs

Post by FrugalInvestor »

Bogle7 wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:08 pm
000 wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:18 pm Have never found a replacement for incandescents that is as soft and gentle.
Look for 2700 K temperature.
Also look for a high CRI (color rendering index) of 85-90 or better. Even if the desired temperature, light that has a poor CRI can make a room feel weird.
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify, but most importantly....Ignore the Noise!
sport
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by sport »

HoberMallow wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:08 pm
sport wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:13 pm I have some indoor flood lights in my kitchen ceiling. I believe they are PAR30 size. I am using 1000 lumen incandescent bulbs because the LED replacements I have found are only 850 lumens, and I want the amount of light I have.
Here is one that is 1050 lumens.

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/99880 ... 0KNFL.html
Norgeiron wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:51 pm Yes, they do, but they are absurdly expensive. I saw one in Target that was $19.99 for one three way LED bulb. The floor lamp I was buying it for cost $8.
I found several for around $5 each.

https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/3-wa ... ght-bulbs/

As indicated in the OP, if it’s a light you use frequently the LED bulb will pay for itself in a few months.
Thanks you. That company looks like a good source.
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Nicolas
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by Nicolas »

I bought government-subsidized LED bulbs from my local Ace hardware store at the low low price of only 25¢ each. I bought way more than I needed, mostly at the warm color temperature of 27O0k and in various lumens ratings, even three-way bulbs, but those were a few more cents each. The light quality is indistinguishable from incandescent.

I overbought as they were so cheap I couldn’t resist. I outfitted our whole house and our lake place too. The rest I’m keeping in storage for possible future use. So far no failures and it’s been almost two years, but I wouldn’t have expected any failures so soon anyway. I may never buy another bulb in my lifetime. I call that a bargain, the best I ever had.

Some years prior to this I bought my first two LED bulbs for $15 each. They’re still working great but in hindsight I overpaid.

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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by jabberwockOG »

HomeStretch wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:09 pm Costco has LED floods and certain size bulbs for about $1 each (on sale a few months ago). They work well with our existing Lutron dimmers. The box or website has a (long) list of compatible dimmers. No flickering unless you mix LEDs and incandescents on the same run.
We switched to all led lighting (2700k warm lights) and upgraded and installed dimmers on almost every switch in the house. Makes for great lighting and with the lights moderately dimmed (we like soft multi point source lighting) the electricity bill is way down. Costco stocks good quality 2700k LEDs these day that are dimmable.
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by Spirit Rider »

shunkman wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:50 pm
livesoft wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:35 pm Instead of changing to LED light bulbs, I'd say: Turn off your damn lights!
Yes, when I was growing up, my father made damn sure we turned off the damn lights whenever we left a room. And 50 some years later I still do it.
Your father must have been related to my grandfather. During the depression, he only allowed one light bulb to be used in the house. If you wanted to move to a different room, you had to unscrew the bulb to change rooms. According to my mother, he generously upped it to two bulbs during the 40s.

When I was a child, I used to stay with my grandparents for a week every summer. Woe unto the grandchild who didn't turn off a light when leaving a room. Old habits are hard to break. I can't seem to get out of the habit many decades later even with LED bulbs. Leave a light on for the whole day, blasphemy.
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by Valuethinker »

000 wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:18 pm Have never found a replacement for incandescents that is as soft and gentle.
The Phillips 2700K ones (ie not the daylight ones) are indistinguishable. If you search the threads here there is good discussion re Colour Rendering Index (CRI).
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by Valuethinker »

LilyFleur wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:51 pm
sport wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:42 pm
BluesH wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:29 pm At our California electricity rates of about $0.30 per kwH...
Wow! I am paying a shade less than $0.05 per kwh.
You probably run your heater and air conditioner a lot more, too.
AC the poster would run less. Because there is less waste heat. In our kitchen with 15 bulbs, ex halogen, the effect is noticeable on a hot day.

We don't have AC (it was in the 90s F week before last, but generally houses in London dont have it). However it's a coolish climate.

We don't notice much difference on the heating. Our gas is 50% of the price of electricity so it is cheaper to run the gas to heat not the lights.
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by Valuethinker »

palanzo wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:56 pm
sport wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:42 pm
BluesH wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:29 pm At our California electricity rates of about $0.30 per kwH...
Wow! I am paying a shade less than $0.05 per kwh.
And yet we have blackouts because it is hot! Who knew that could happen.
I think the Blackouts were a function of high tension lines causing forest fires? So they had to shut down lines.

I understand there is currently a problem in other parts of California w blackouts related to load balancing?
Valuethinker
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by Valuethinker »

Nicolas wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:39 pm I bought government-subsidized LED bulbs from my local Ace hardware store at the low low price of only 25¢ each. I bought way more than I needed, mostly at the warm color temperature of 27O0k and in various lumens ratings, even three-way bulbs, but those were a few more cents each. The light quality is indistinguishable from incandescent.

I overbought as they were so cheap I couldn’t resist. I outfitted our whole house and our lake place too. The rest I’m keeping in storage for possible future use. So far no failures and it’s been almost two years, but I wouldn’t have expected any failures so soon anyway. I may never buy another bulb in my lifetime. I call that a bargain, the best I ever had.

Some years prior to this I bought my first two LED bulbs for $15 each. They’re still working great but in hindsight I overpaid.

Image
"Overpaid" is relative. If there was a positive payback then there still is.

What happened is the prices of the bulbs fell faster than we anticipated.

But those bulbs I paid 15 pounds for that saved me 3 pounds pa still do save me 3 pounds pa.
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by jjface »

A light on 16 hours a day? Do you live in a cave?!!
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by bberris »

palanzo wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:56 pm
sport wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:42 pm
BluesH wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:29 pm At our California electricity rates of about $0.30 per kwH...
Wow! I am paying a shade less than $0.05 per kwh.
And yet we have blackouts because it is hot! Who knew that could happen.
It's not easy being green.
dbr
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by dbr »

We are 100% LED. Saving electricity has nothing to do with it compared to not having to replace burnt out bulbs in hard to reach places, and then just everywhere. CFL was/is a bad technology that we never used. You can select color temperature and rendering and proper dimmers work fine. There are 3-way bulbs and I have even replaced 4' fluorescents in the shop. The 4' LEDs are brighter and quieter. The only replacement I have not found so far is the mogul base 100-200-300 in one lamp. It isn't that hard to replace the lamp.
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by MarkerFM »

Normchad wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:55 pm I really like my LED bulbs. I replaced most of my frequently used can lights with them 8-9 years ago, and they’ve been great.

I really do like a lot of light. So I tend to leave them on a lot of the time.... my father would cringe..... but they are so cheap to run.

My favorite thing about them, is that they don’t create a lot of heat, and so it saves me some on my AC bill as well. The difference in comfort is noticeable to me, as I had about 13 60 watt bulbs pumping all that heat into my living spaces....

To me, they’re every bit as good as incandescent. And they are far far superior to fluorescent. I even replaced my fluorescent shop lights in the garage with LED equivalents.
I know someone who replaced every single bulb in their place with LED, and used something like 5000k (daytime) brightness. He said they are so cheap to run he just leaves them on all the time!
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by MarkerFM »

Norgeiron wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:51 pm
One Ping wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:46 pm Do they make 3- way LED bulbs?

The kind that would replace the old 60/75/150 W incandescents. I remember looking a (long?) while ago and didn't find any.
Yes, they do, but they are absurdly expensive. I saw one in Target that was $19.99 for one three way LED bulb. The floor lamp I was buying it for cost $8.
We bought these, and like them https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0758 ... UTF8&psc=1

They were $11 each, but now I see they are about $14. Perhaps you could find them cheaper elsewhere.
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by onourway »

MarkerFM wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:05 am
I know someone who replaced every single bulb in their place with LED, and used something like 5000k (daytime) brightness. He said they are so cheap to run he just leaves them on all the time!
Hopefully they also painted all the walls hospital green to complete the effect. :P
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by dodecahedron »

sport wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:42 pm
BluesH wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:29 pm At our California electricity rates of about $0.30 per kwH...
Wow! I am paying a shade less than $0.05 per kwh.
Rates here in Upstate NY are about 11 to 12 cents per kwh. And I actually pay nothing for electricity except fixed monthly connection fee of $17 per month these days (due to my solar panels in a CSA solar farm.)

However, using LED bulbs has definitely reduced my usage a lot and allowed me to buy significantly fewer solar panels than I would otherwise have needed. (Hard to say exactly how much of the usage drop is due to LEDs because switchover was gradual but I also did a lot of other energy improvements at same time, including new fridge, new dishwasher, being more mindful about turning lights and appliances off when not in use, getting rid of the inground pool, etc.)

I get LEDs for 99 cents on sale. Main obstacle to going 100% is that some of my fixtures are very high up (hard to reach safely to change the bulbs.) After Pandemic ends, planning to have handyman come over and do a bunch of tasks, including lightbulb switching in those fixtures.
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by BuddyJet »

Nicolas wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:39 pm ..............

Some years prior to this I bought my first two LED bulbs for $15 each. They’re still working great but in hindsight I overpaid.
My first led purchase was for two Philips bulbs at about $30-50 each. While exorbitantly expensive, they replaced bulbs that required scaffolding to replace them. Worth every penny to not have to replace in my lifetime.

Like all tools, it’s not only what it costs but what it saves.
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by TomatoTomahto »

When we first moved here 2.5 years ago, Eversource (utility in MA) replaced all the remaining incandescent bulbs for free. The price wasn’t the motivation; it was nice to have someone else moving the ladder.

A plug for Philips Hue LED bulbs. They are not the brightest or least expensive, but they offer many opportunities for intelligent lighting. Our bedrooms all have Hue Circadian appropriate lighting in the valences bouncing off the ceiling (standard settings that are timed throughout the day are Relax, Energize, Read, and Nightlight). Our task and navigation lights, mostly on Lutron Caseta smart switches are 2700 Kelvin “regular” LEDs, although I find 3000 Kelvin fine for the kitchen.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by BuddyJet »

dbr wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:42 am We are 100% LED. Saving electricity has nothing to do with it compared to not having to replace burnt out bulbs in hard to reach places, and then just everywhere. CFL was/is a bad technology that we never used. You can select color temperature and rendering and proper dimmers work fine. There are 3-way bulbs and I have even replaced 4' fluorescents in the shop. The 4' LEDs are brighter and quieter. The only replacement I have not found so far is the mogul base 100-200-300 in one lamp. It isn't that hard to replace the lamp.
If you really like the lamp, this will let you use a standard 3 way led.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mogul-Three-Wa ... Sw9r1WDpGp
People say nothing is impossible. I do nothing all day.
dbr
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by dbr »

BuddyJet wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:36 am
dbr wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:42 am We are 100% LED. Saving electricity has nothing to do with it compared to not having to replace burnt out bulbs in hard to reach places, and then just everywhere. CFL was/is a bad technology that we never used. You can select color temperature and rendering and proper dimmers work fine. There are 3-way bulbs and I have even replaced 4' fluorescents in the shop. The 4' LEDs are brighter and quieter. The only replacement I have not found so far is the mogul base 100-200-300 in one lamp. It isn't that hard to replace the lamp.
If you really like the lamp, this will let you use a standard 3 way led.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mogul-Three-Wa ... Sw9r1WDpGp
Thanks, good idea.
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by Inframan4712 »

sport wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:13 pm I have some indoor flood lights in my kitchen ceiling. I believe they are PAR30 size. I am using 1000 lumen incandescent bulbs because the LED replacements I have found are only 850 lumens, and I want the amount of light I have.
You might find those 850s are subjectively brighter than the 1000s they replace. I know I had that experience.
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by FrugalInvestor »

Inframan4712 wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:45 am
sport wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:13 pm I have some indoor flood lights in my kitchen ceiling. I believe they are PAR30 size. I am using 1000 lumen incandescent bulbs because the LED replacements I have found are only 850 lumens, and I want the amount of light I have.
You might find those 850s are subjectively brighter than the 1000s they replace. I know I had that experience.
I've also found that an equivalent lumen and color temperature LED bulb always seems brighter than the 'equivalent' incandescent. I'm not sure why that is.
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify, but most importantly....Ignore the Noise!
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by Inframan4712 »

FrugalInvestor wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:11 am
Inframan4712 wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:45 am
sport wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:13 pm I have some indoor flood lights in my kitchen ceiling. I believe they are PAR30 size. I am using 1000 lumen incandescent bulbs because the LED replacements I have found are only 850 lumens, and I want the amount of light I have.
You might find those 850s are subjectively brighter than the 1000s they replace. I know I had that experience.
I've also found that an equivalent lumen and color temperature LED bulb always seems brighter than the 'equivalent' incandescent. I'm not sure why that is.
I think it’s because light, like sound, is made up of many frequencies.
What frequencies contribute most to the light is a function of how that light is produced and then how it is diffused by the housing.

My sound meter shows a single number in decibels but also a graph of the different frequencies.
45 dB of mostly high frequencies is very different in subjective loudness than lower frequencies.
dbr
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by dbr »

Inframan4712 wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:48 pm
FrugalInvestor wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:11 am
Inframan4712 wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:45 am
sport wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:13 pm I have some indoor flood lights in my kitchen ceiling. I believe they are PAR30 size. I am using 1000 lumen incandescent bulbs because the LED replacements I have found are only 850 lumens, and I want the amount of light I have.
You might find those 850s are subjectively brighter than the 1000s they replace. I know I had that experience.
I've also found that an equivalent lumen and color temperature LED bulb always seems brighter than the 'equivalent' incandescent. I'm not sure why that is.
I think it’s because light, like sound, is made up of many frequencies.
What frequencies contribute most to the light is a function of how that light is produced and then how it is diffused by the housing.

My sound meter shows a single number in decibels but also a graph of the different frequencies.
45 dB of mostly high frequencies is very different in subjective loudness than lower frequencies.
Correct. The end result is the spectral distribution of the light combined with the spectral sensitivity of the different receptors in the eye. Simply specifying the color temperature does not define the whole picture. Technically there should not be a color temperature specification if the light source is not a black body. Color rendering is another property related to the spectrum of the light. It is true that both LED and fluorescent light sources can be "off" from a natural light source that is effectively a black body. But the same issues apply when in the shade illuminated by sky light but not by sunlight, and so on. Photographers/cinematographers deal with these things all the time and so do paint manufacturers, dyers, or anyone else thinking about how something will look under different conditions. It is interesting when watching an old black and white movie how night scenes are produced by filming in daylight but underexposing the film, only there are still shadows.
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by MathIsMyWayr »

dbr wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:02 pm
Inframan4712 wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:48 pm
FrugalInvestor wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:11 am
Inframan4712 wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:45 am
sport wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:13 pm I have some indoor flood lights in my kitchen ceiling. I believe they are PAR30 size. I am using 1000 lumen incandescent bulbs because the LED replacements I have found are only 850 lumens, and I want the amount of light I have.
You might find those 850s are subjectively brighter than the 1000s they replace. I know I had that experience.
I've also found that an equivalent lumen and color temperature LED bulb always seems brighter than the 'equivalent' incandescent. I'm not sure why that is.
I think it’s because light, like sound, is made up of many frequencies.
What frequencies contribute most to the light is a function of how that light is produced and then how it is diffused by the housing.

My sound meter shows a single number in decibels but also a graph of the different frequencies.
45 dB of mostly high frequencies is very different in subjective loudness than lower frequencies.
Correct. The end result is the spectral distribution of the light combined with the spectral sensitivity of the different receptors in the eye. Simply specifying the color temperature does not define the whole picture. Technically there should not be a color temperature specification if the light source is not a black body. Color rendering is another property related to the spectrum of the light. It is true that both LED and fluorescent light sources can be "off" from a natural light source that is effectively a black body. But the same issues apply when in the shade illuminated by sky light but not by sunlight, and so on. Photographers/cinematographers deal with these things all the time and so do paint manufacturers, dyers, or anyone else thinking about how something will look under different conditions. It is interesting when watching an old black and white movie how night scenes are produced by filming in daylight but underexposing the film, only there are still shadows.
Lumen is a measure of the total light output flux. The brightness is more the flux density per unit area of interest. An LED light bulb has a large number of tiny LED array and they may be able to arrange the array to direct the light output to be focused rather than spread the light beam in every direction. An incandescent light bulb has filaments and you need a focusing reflector or lens which may drive the cost high.
dbr
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by dbr »

MathIsMyWayr wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:11 pm
dbr wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:02 pm
Inframan4712 wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:48 pm
FrugalInvestor wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:11 am
Inframan4712 wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:45 am

You might find those 850s are subjectively brighter than the 1000s they replace. I know I had that experience.
I've also found that an equivalent lumen and color temperature LED bulb always seems brighter than the 'equivalent' incandescent. I'm not sure why that is.
I think it’s because light, like sound, is made up of many frequencies.
What frequencies contribute most to the light is a function of how that light is produced and then how it is diffused by the housing.

My sound meter shows a single number in decibels but also a graph of the different frequencies.
45 dB of mostly high frequencies is very different in subjective loudness than lower frequencies.
Correct. The end result is the spectral distribution of the light combined with the spectral sensitivity of the different receptors in the eye. Simply specifying the color temperature does not define the whole picture. Technically there should not be a color temperature specification if the light source is not a black body. Color rendering is another property related to the spectrum of the light. It is true that both LED and fluorescent light sources can be "off" from a natural light source that is effectively a black body. But the same issues apply when in the shade illuminated by sky light but not by sunlight, and so on. Photographers/cinematographers deal with these things all the time and so do paint manufacturers, dyers, or anyone else thinking about how something will look under different conditions. It is interesting when watching an old black and white movie how night scenes are produced by filming in daylight but underexposing the film, only there are still shadows.
Lumen is a measure of the total light output flux. The brightness is more the flux density per unit area of interest. An LED light bulb has a large number of tiny LED array and they may be able to arrange the array to direct the light output to be focused rather than spread the light beam in every direction. An incandescent light bulb has filaments and you need a focusing reflector or lens which may drive the cost high.
It may well be that is actually the biggest difference among bulbs. I know one thing you can check about a bulb design is beam angle, which is quite different for reflector, spots, floods, and different arrangements of LED array. One difference is how omnidirectional the bulb is compared to mostly illuminating to the side or on the axis. The phenomenon is similar to how a TV screen dims when you get off axis. An LED fluorescent tube replacement obviously radiates sideways and would be brighter with a mirror behind it. All of this is also affected by the design of the fixture.
Gadget
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by Gadget »

adestefan wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:45 pm
000 wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:18 pm Have never found a replacement for incandescents that is as soft and gentle.
Philips Warm Glow bulbs.
+1

These are the only LEDs I like as much as an incandescent when dimmed. It's gotta be the dimmable Philips, and they have to say "warm glow" which changes the color temperature depending on the dimming level.
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MrBobcat
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by MrBobcat »

I replaced 160+ T12 tubes/ballasts with LED tubes 5 years ago in my office. I've only had 2 fail in that timeframe. I think I calculated at the time it would take about 6 years until they paid for themselves. They've dropped in price from $17/tube to $10/tube since then so the payoff would be quicker now. I had a number of fixtures where I would have had to replace the ballasts in the not too distant future anyway and the cost of 2 ballasts (for a 4 tube fixture) was about the same price of just buying 4 leds so...

IMO leds are well worth it and I've since changed out every light in my house as well.
000
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by 000 »

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Who would have known that bogleheads are so knowledgeable about lightbulbs? :D
MathIsMyWayr
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by MathIsMyWayr »

000 wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:08 pm Thanks for all the suggestions.

Who would have known that bogleheads are so knowledgeable about lightbulbs? :D
Where do you expect some of bogleheads get money to think of investing? Money may beget money, but it has to begin somewhere first. Not many of us receive royalty checks from oil wells under their property.
000
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by 000 »

MathIsMyWayr wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:43 pm
000 wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:08 pm Thanks for all the suggestions.

Who would have known that bogleheads are so knowledgeable about lightbulbs? :D
Where do you expect some of bogleheads get money to think of investing? Money may beget money, but it has to begin somewhere first. Not many of us receive royalty checks from oil wells under their property.
Every kwh saved can go straight to VTSAX! :moneybag :moneybag :moneybag
RCL
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by RCL »

Nicolas wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:39 pm I call that a bargain, the best I ever had.
I don't think many got the reference :shock:
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F150HD
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by F150HD »

Aftereffect.....

Lighting Industry's Future Dims As Efficient LED Bulbs Take Over
November 25, 2019


https://www.npr.org/2019/11/25/78208716 ... -take-over

"You don't buy lightbulbs anymore. Once you buy them, you don't change them,"... these newest lightbulbs pose a double-edged sword. "They're a little more expensive but they sure last a long time," he says. "But your buddies don't have a job either."
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Nicolas
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by Nicolas »

RCL wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:53 pm
Nicolas wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:39 pm I call that a bargain, the best I ever had.
I don't think many got the reference :shock:
Thank you, I was hoping someone would pick up on that 8-)
Chance favors the prepared mind. — Louis Pasteur
chuckb84
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by chuckb84 »

Afty wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:57 pm Maybe this isn’t a surprise to others, but it sure was to me. We have a chandelier in our kitchen that is on whenever we’re home and awake. It uses 6 40w light bulbs. With us all home because of COVID it’s on around 16 hours per day. The equivalent LED bulb uses 3.3w, and our CA electric rate is $0.28/kWh (thanks PG&E).

Incandescent: 6 bulbs * 40w * 16 hrs/day * 365 days/yr = 1401 kWh/yr = $392/yr
LED: 6 bulbs * 3.3w * 16 hrs/day * 365 days/yr = 115 kWh/yr = $32/yr

Switching that one fixture to LEDs will save $360 a year!
It's even better than that. If that light fixture runs during air conditioning months, you'll almost double the energy savings from all the heat that the AC isn't pumping out of the house from those incandescent bulbs.
prairieman
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by prairieman »

Our house had no LEDs, quite a few incandescents, mostly fluorescents, and even some halogens when we moved in in 2013. There were so many bulbs that I was replacing one every week - very annoying since it often meant a run to the store. Eventually I had a shelf full of old fluorescents waiting to be brought to Hazardous Waste, and new replacement bulbs, bought in packs of four to six.
About four years ago, I decided to standardize the house with LEDs, taking inventory and then buying LED bulbs for every socket through Amazon and local stores. All the fluorescent bulbs were brought in a single trip to our county’s hazardous waste site. I never did the math to see how much I saved in electricity but it has to be a lot.
My favorite thing, though, was clearing the shelf of old and new bulbs - and replacing it with a shoebox of LEDs that can replace any bulb that does burnout from now on - about once every six months.
“As long as the roots are not severed, all is well.” Chauncey Gardner
marcwd
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by marcwd »

RCL wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:53 pm
Nicolas wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:39 pm I call that a bargain, the best I ever had.
I don't think many got the reference :shock:
I certainly did.
crit
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by crit »

I replaced about 25 recessed cans in our house, a ranch, with LED cans. Because they run so much cooler, the can is closed, no air flow, a big improvement over the leaky and hot incandescent cans. I added foam rings when installing them - so now there is a massively reduced heat (or cool) leakage through the cans. I also notice the lack of heat production from them. So I count it as a win both on electricity and in HVAC. And it's nice to not have to change bulbs!

In our basement and garage, countless 4' fluorescent tubes in recessed panels, I just could never keep up with all the dead ones. I've used both LED tubes and replacement fixtures. They're both fine, and more importantly, they just work I never have to wait to see if the tube is dead or if it's just taking forever to ignite. I think I'll really appreciate that this winter in the garage, especially.

Recycling all the dead 4' tubes has been a bit of a pain, but worth it.
LittleMaggieMae
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Re: PSA: switch to LED light bulbs and save hundreds per year

Post by LittleMaggieMae »

marcwd wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:52 pm
RCL wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:53 pm
Nicolas wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:39 pm I call that a bargain, the best I ever had.
I don't think many got the reference :shock:
I certainly did.
Me, too, I heard it in my head by the time I got to the end of the sentence. (And it's about 10 years before my "time" and it's not really my genre. It's borderline iconic... not quite but almost.)
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