Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

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CorduroyGivenToFly
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Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by CorduroyGivenToFly »

Anyone here certified in Six Sigma and/or Lean Sigma? Seems that ASQ (American Society for Quality) is the most reputable/recognized certification body, but they don’t offer lean sigma certifications, although they do promote lean sigma training courses oddly. The next leading org seems to be IASSC (International Association for Six Sigma Certifications).

Lean Sigma seems to be more valued these days, but there’s no clear leader besides maybe IASSC which isn’t as recognized. anyone looked into this issue and come to a conclusion?

I’ve already got the knowledge and some experience leading process improvement projects. I think I could pass the exam without too much prep or effort looking at body of knowledge summaries. I just want to add an industry cert to my resume.
Mathew675
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by Mathew675 »

I’m a big fan of accumulating merit badges to show some knowledge of different areas. I took the PMP exam from just some independent study and it paid off immensely. It all depends on the industry you are in and the cert obviously, but it looks great on a resume. Doing one right now for agile development and have some for contracting with government. I am always asked about certs and not my advanced degree. I suspect the advanced degree got me the interview while the certs separate me from other applicants.
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CorduroyGivenToFly
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by CorduroyGivenToFly »

I agree with you on the value of certs. I already have ITIL Foundation, CSM, CSPO, and RTE certs, and of course the associated experience.

Not sure if I see the value in PMP anymore. What companies are doing waterfall these days? Government agencies and anyone else? Although I often see it in job postings requirements for program manager roles even if the underlying works terms are agile, and even though there’s a separate PMI certification for program management. Go figure.

Do you have an opinion on the six/lean sigma certification org question?
Mathew675
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by Mathew675 »

In a previous focus I had in my career six sigma would have been great to have. I looked into doing it but couldn’t get into the offered training because I was swamped. My organization seemed to push every 2 or 3 years for certification and was open to all who could attend. I believe it was utilizing ASQ materials. No opinion on what is available today as this was almost a decade ago.
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TexasPE
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by TexasPE »

Mathew675 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:41 am I’m a big fan of accumulating merit badges to show some knowledge of different areas. ... It all depends on the industry you are in and the cert obviously, but it looks great on a resume.
+1

My PE got me a job with a consultancy when I was laid off in the early 80s (oil bust) and the oil industry job market had tanked. In the real world I actually used my stamp less than a half-dozen times (Environmental Report submitted to a State agency when the usual signer was absent.)

In 2005 a PMP made me the best candidate for a $80M program management position at my plant. [No one else had the certificate]. In 2010 an ISA SFS (Safety Fundamentals Specialist) cert did the same for managing a $40M safety system upgrade.

"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king".

On the other hand, completing my MSChE in the early 70s got me a whopping $80/ month raise :oops:
At 20: I cared what everyone thought about me | At 40: I didn't give a damn what anyone thought of me | Now that I'm 60: I realize that no one was really thinking about me at all | Winston Churchill (?)
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by stan1 »

It all depends on industry, company, and even hiring manager. Lean Six Sigma also goes in cycles where it is in favor then falls out of favor. When it is wildly in favor it gets applied to inappropriate use cases which hastens its slip back out of favor. It is always appropriate for some problems but not all.
The best thing to have on your resume is results with metrics, both with complex statistical problems that warrant extensive analysis as well as simple "just do its" that have impact but don't warrant the time and expense of the full LSS methodology. You want to show you know when rigor is cost effective and when it is not cost effective. If you believe rigor is always cost effective you'll need to find a manager who feels the same way or be selective about which job assignments you take on. If your employer will pay for the cert by all means get it.
Last edited by stan1 on Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

TexasPE wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:32 am On the other hand, completing my MSChE in the early 70s got me a whopping $80/ month raise :oops:
If you stayed in the same job, that is not at all unusual. When I received my MSEE, I got a "zip" raise. The degree did help me do my job better and got me jobs at higher levels going forward, however.
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by Marmot »

CorduroyGivenToFly wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:18 am Anyone here certified in Six Sigma and/or Lean Sigma? Seems that ASQ (American Society for Quality) is the most reputable/recognized certification body, but they don’t offer lean sigma certifications, although they do promote lean sigma training courses oddly. The next leading org seems to be IASSC (International Association for Six Sigma Certifications).

Lean Sigma seems to be more valued these days, but there’s no clear leader besides maybe IASSC which isn’t as recognized. anyone looked into this issue and come to a conclusion?

I’ve already got the knowledge and some experience leading process improvement projects. I think I could pass the exam without too much prep or effort looking at body of knowledge summaries. I just want to add an industry cert to my resume.
One thing is to look at current job openings and see what they have listed as required/preferred in the job descriptions. You can get a pretty decent idea of what industry prefers. I am an ex HR Director from a pharmaceutical environment , ASQ is what we recognized mostly from a accreditation perspective. Which ever organization is a "recognized leader" in their respective fields seems to dictate what is expected/respected for certification. In my world it was SHRM. Six Sigma is such a fast moving and ever changing discipline.
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by carolinaman »

I have been retired almost 10 years but managed a large IT organization for 22 years. Certifications were nice but real experience doing it was way more important. I used to see resumes with all kinds of certifications but very little experience. That told me all I need to know about those people. Just my opinion.
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CorduroyGivenToFly
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by CorduroyGivenToFly »

I have the experience behind all my certs (ones I have and ones I’m looking into). I am anticipating the potential of getting laid off and want to have the certifications for potential job applications elsewhere.
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by jarjarM »

I'm six sigma black belt and had trained many people previously. As mentioned upthread, it's very industry/company dependent. One company I worked for really value this and promotions are tied to getting the certification, but others could careless about it. To me, it was worthwhile 'cause it got me into different role at the company and opened up new doors. YMMV.
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Prokofiev
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by Prokofiev »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:14 am
TexasPE wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:32 am On the other hand, completing my MSChE in the early 70s got me a whopping $80/ month raise :oops:
If you stayed in the same job, that is not at all unusual. When I received my MSEE, I got a "zip" raise. The degree did help me do my job better and got me jobs at higher levels going forward, however.

And of course $80/month in the early 70's is about $500/month in today's dollars. Maybe a 5-8% bump . . .
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Prokofiev
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by Prokofiev »

carolinaman wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:00 am I have been retired almost 10 years but managed a large IT organization for 22 years. Certifications were nice but real experience doing it was way more important. I used to see resumes with all kinds of certifications but very little experience. That told me all I need to know about those people. Just my opinion.
How about all the resumes with no experience and no certifications? Experience can only come with time. Education can show effort.
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by Shael_AT »

Experience with Certifications if combined right are gold.

But only if they elaborate and enhance your underlying capabilities and aptitudes.

It's not about what you look like on paper or how well regarded your acronym's are, it's your impact and output as an individual or group contributor.

My best investment was getting a CCNA in 2009. Not only was I the only candidate with one for a entry-level Datacenter Technician role, but I also had the Experience and Aptitude of an entire lifetime of computer enthusiasm, hackery and hobby. That role was a contractor role for a company that... Makes Windows in the PNW.

Changed the course of my life and my family tree.

Without that CCNA they would have never looked at me. Turns out, connecting things on private and public internets and intranets became a big deal and isn't losing relevancy even in 2020. That's when I decided to collect certifications aggressively, you never know what doors are open to you until you can see the hallway.
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by Mudpuppy »

Prokofiev wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:25 pm
carolinaman wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:00 am I have been retired almost 10 years but managed a large IT organization for 22 years. Certifications were nice but real experience doing it was way more important. I used to see resumes with all kinds of certifications but very little experience. That told me all I need to know about those people. Just my opinion.
How about all the resumes with no experience and no certifications? Experience can only come with time. Education can show effort.
In IT, there is a concern that many certificates without professional or hobbyist experience is essentially a proverbial "all hat and no cattle" person. I don't know if IT is unique in this concern, but I know it's a common concern in IT. For someone fresh out of school, their hobbyist experiences can carry weight. In college, I wrote a text-based Internet game and set up/administered the Linux server it ran on. I listed that as hobbyist experience on my resume. My first job said that's what distinguished me from all of the other fresh out of college candidates.

It would be difficult for the OP to get hobbyist experience in Lean Six Sigma though. I suppose one could apply the thought process to smaller scale projects, but the value of that might be limited since the OP is not directly out of school. However, as a future-proofing technique given the foreseen job insecurity, having just the certificate might work from the continuous improvement and education aspect.
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CorduroyGivenToFly
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by CorduroyGivenToFly »

What I’m going for is to position myself as a jack of all trades in the non-technical upper echelons of individual contributor paths of IT with the degrees, the experience, and the certs. So, MBA, CSM, CSPO, RTE, Lean Sigma (though ASQ doesn’t certify for it), maybe PMP which I think is outdated but I still see in an unusually high number of job listings, especially for program managers. My hope is this approach would not only open more doors but also be attractive to hiring managers who want people who can do multiple roles. If anyone has any further thoughts on this or on the original lean sigma cert question, would be much appreciated and thanks for the responses so far.
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by jarjarM »

CorduroyGivenToFly wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:00 pm What I’m going for is to position myself as a jack of all trades in the non-technical upper echelons of individual contributor paths of IT with the degrees, the experience, and the certs. So, MBA, CSM, CSPO, RTE, Lean Sigma (though ASQ doesn’t certify for it), maybe PMP which I think is outdated but I still see in an unusually high number of job listings, especially for program managers. My hope is this approach would not only open more doors but also be attractive to hiring managers who want people who can do multiple roles. If anyone has any further thoughts on this or on the original lean sigma cert question, would be much appreciated and thanks for the responses so far.
Based on the cert you listed so far, I assume you want to be a PM or a product owner? You can always agile certification but I doubt that would be super useful either. What type of company do you want to get into? Tech or traditional IT.
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CorduroyGivenToFly
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by CorduroyGivenToFly »

jarjarM wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:15 pm
CorduroyGivenToFly wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:00 pm What I’m going for is to position myself as a jack of all trades in the non-technical upper echelons of individual contributor paths of IT with the degrees, the experience, and the certs. So, MBA, CSM, CSPO, RTE, Lean Sigma (though ASQ doesn’t certify for it), maybe PMP which I think is outdated but I still see in an unusually high number of job listings, especially for program managers. My hope is this approach would not only open more doors but also be attractive to hiring managers who want people who can do multiple roles. If anyone has any further thoughts on this or on the original lean sigma cert question, would be much appreciated and thanks for the responses so far.
Based on the cert you listed so far, I assume you want to be a PM or a product owner? You can always agile certification but I doubt that would be super useful either. What type of company do you want to get into? Tech or traditional IT.
Banks, federal contractors, insurance companies, GSEs, maybe some others. The big employee in the geographic area I’m looking at is the Federal government. But I’m not too interested in that unless I can get in at a GS-14 or higher.
Last edited by CorduroyGivenToFly on Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jarjarM
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by jarjarM »

CorduroyGivenToFly wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:35 pm
jarjarM wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:15 pm
CorduroyGivenToFly wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:00 pm What I’m going for is to position myself as a jack of all trades in the non-technical upper echelons of individual contributor paths of IT with the degrees, the experience, and the certs. So, MBA, CSM, CSPO, RTE, Lean Sigma (though ASQ doesn’t certify for it), maybe PMP which I think is outdated but I still see in an unusually high number of job listings, especially for program managers. My hope is this approach would not only open more doors but also be attractive to hiring managers who want people who can do multiple roles. If anyone has any further thoughts on this or on the original lean sigma cert question, would be much appreciated and thanks for the responses so far.
Based on the cert you listed so far, I assume you want to be a PM or a product owner? You can always agile certification but I doubt that would be super useful either. What type of company do you want to get into? Tech or traditional IT.
Banks, federal contractors, insurance companies, GSEs.
Oh, aren't those mostly outsourced?
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by novemberrain »

CorduroyGivenToFly wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:18 am Anyone here certified in Six Sigma and/or Lean Sigma? Seems that ASQ (American Society for Quality) is the most reputable/recognized certification body, but they don’t offer lean sigma certifications, although they do promote lean sigma training courses oddly. The next leading org seems to be IASSC (International Association for Six Sigma Certifications).

Lean Sigma seems to be more valued these days, but there’s no clear leader besides maybe IASSC which isn’t as recognized. anyone looked into this issue and come to a conclusion?

I’ve already got the knowledge and some experience leading process improvement projects. I think I could pass the exam without too much prep or effort looking at body of knowledge summaries. I just want to add an industry cert to my resume.
If you are looking for salary bump within the tech field; I would suggest trying to get a job in a core tech company (FAANGM or other such high paying). There really is an exponential jump in comp between traditional IT companies and these tech companies. They offer pretty high comp - 200k to 400k for vast majority of engineers. And if you are very good or a superstar, it can go 700k+ or even 1M+. I doubt many traditional IT companies can match even the lower numbers I mentioned.
And if you do try to get employed at these FAANGM+ companies I mentioned, certifications and badges will be a disadvantage imho. They kind of look down on those.
Check out
https://www.levels.fyi
for a few companies I mentioned. The numbers on the above website are accurate. If anything, they are on the lower side than the actual numbers
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CorduroyGivenToFly
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by CorduroyGivenToFly »

I’m not a software engineer or coder. I could probably do product management with my background, though I’ve never had a formal product management role. I lived in Silicon Valley for most of the last decade, so I’m familiar with Levels and what you mention.
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by nspayne17 »

ASQ offers LSS certifications, they just happen to call them SS certifications, but I can assure you they also include Lean and probably just don't want to rebrand them:

Here are what they offer (Green through Master Black):

https://asq.org/cert/master-black-belt

https://asq.org/cert/six-sigma-black-belt

https://asq.org/cert/six-sigma-green-belt

I'm ASQ SSBB certified, and took the test approximately 8 months ago. From a reputation/certification standpoint ASQ >>>>>>> IASSC. Most employers dont even know what IASSC is, but if you're dealing in the manufacturing/quality realm, ASQ certifications hold gold and ASQ itself has been around for over 65 year, so is much more reputable than IASSC. IASSC also doesn't require any type of pre-validation to sit for their exam (sounds bias when I say it but read below)

ASQ requires certain experience/project requirements to be sent in order to sit for the exam and the possibility you get audited as well and arent making everything up (similar to PMP). This is probably the main reason the ASQ certifications hold more weight. In addition, the ASQ exams are open book, which may at first seem like the test will be easier, but the contrary is true. The IASSC exam simply can't test you on complicated statistics problems that are key when you get in LSS, particularly BB and above (how are you going to memorize a z-score table that has hundreds of entries?). With ASQ being open book, they don't expect you to memorize all the formulas and z-scores, t-tables, etc, but know which ones to use in certain situations and then apply those on some of the exam problems. I was constantly flipping through my book/cheat sheet using all the tools you'd use in a real project.

Just my 2 cents, PM me if you have specific questions.
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CorduroyGivenToFly
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by CorduroyGivenToFly »

Very helpful. Thanks.
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by phxjcc »

Read the Motorola 68000 vs. Intel x286 story.

One had Six Sigma, one did not.

One leads the world in chips, one is all but through with the chip business.

Pareto THAT!
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by RomeoMustDie »

CorduroyGivenToFly wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:18 am Anyone here certified in Six Sigma and/or Lean Sigma? Seems that ASQ (American Society for Quality) is the most reputable/recognized certification body, but they don’t offer lean sigma certifications, although they do promote lean sigma training courses oddly. The next leading org seems to be IASSC (International Association for Six Sigma Certifications).

Lean Sigma seems to be more valued these days, but there’s no clear leader besides maybe IASSC which isn’t as recognized. anyone looked into this issue and come to a conclusion?

I’ve already got the knowledge and some experience leading process improvement projects. I think I could pass the exam without too much prep or effort looking at body of knowledge summaries. I just want to add an industry cert to my resume.
High, easily get a promotion off it. Lots of really nice business analysis skills in there. The actual PM workflow is pretty standard though.

Would recommend.

At some of the other posters, no 6 sigma doesn't fall out of favor the skills are very strong and methodology agnostic. Different names same game.

No, having bonus certs and education is not a negative I just got hired at my latest job for having them. Was a huge plus for me.
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CorduroyGivenToFly
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by CorduroyGivenToFly »

Thanks for your feedback. I think I'll signup for the next ASQ Six Sigma Green Belt exam.
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by jabberwockOG »

Check out the job boards in the sector and role you are interested in filling. There likely are dozens of jobs posted. Which certifications are most often listed for those specific roles/positions as required or helpful. Go get a couple of those, and all other things being equal it may help you get the first or second interview. I managed IT related teams (just about every domain/discipline) and some large scale projects. Some of the worst PMs we ran into on train wreck projects seemed to be the most credentialed. Being REALLY good at it is an art form, and requires just as much talent as knowledge and experience.
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Re: Value of Six/Lean Six Sigma certifications and accrediting bodies.

Post by Dottie57 »

jarjarM wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:36 pm
CorduroyGivenToFly wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:35 pm
jarjarM wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:15 pm
CorduroyGivenToFly wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:00 pm What I’m going for is to position myself as a jack of all trades in the non-technical upper echelons of individual contributor paths of IT with the degrees, the experience, and the certs. So, MBA, CSM, CSPO, RTE, Lean Sigma (though ASQ doesn’t certify for it), maybe PMP which I think is outdated but I still see in an unusually high number of job listings, especially for program managers. My hope is this approach would not only open more doors but also be attractive to hiring managers who want people who can do multiple roles. If anyone has any further thoughts on this or on the original lean sigma cert question, would be much appreciated and thanks for the responses so far.
Based on the cert you listed so far, I assume you want to be a PM or a product owner? You can always agile certification but I doubt that would be super useful either. What type of company do you want to get into? Tech or traditional IT.
Banks, federal contractors, insurance companies, GSEs.
Oh, aren't those mostly outsourced?
Most of those have state or federal rules/law that cannot be implemented with mostly offshore resources. Lakes/rules of privacy can’t reach into foreign countries. Think about health insurance and HIPAA.
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