Mortgage sold - no contact from new lender

[Independent George]

Title pretty much says it all - my mortgage was paid off yesterday, indicating that it was purchased by a new bank, but I have not been contacted by my new lender. (My guess is they sent something by email which got intercepted by my spam filter). The 1st of the month was Saturday, so I didn't even notice my monthly payment didn't post until this morning.

I tried calling my old lender, but they don't have anyone answering the phones; I sent them a secure message this morning via their web portal, but (1) who knows how long it will be before I receive a human response, and (2) a customer service rep is not likely to know anything about the new lender. I'm concerned that by the time I get it all sorted out, my account is going to be considered past due.

Has anyone else gone through this? What are the chances that the new lender will waive any late fees due to the mixup? How likely am I to get information from the old bank about where my loan went?

Fortunately, my property taxes were already paid from escrow, so at least my cash-strapped state won't be knocking on my door.

[Broken Man 1999]

My guess is they sent something by email which got intercepted by my spam filter

Did you check your spam folder?

Broken Man 1999

[Independent George]

My guess is they sent something by email which got intercepted by my spam filter

Did you check your spam folder?

Broken Man 1999

I have - I didn't find anything, but it only goes back 30 days; if they sent an earlier communication, there's no way for me to find it. I checked the secure inbox at my old lender, and there is no indication that the mortgage was sold.

ETA: this brings up another point regarding infosec: even if I did find an email, how could I verify that it came from the actual lender, and wasn't a phishing attack? The only thing I can think of is to check with my old lender, and there is nothing in my account to indicate the sale of the mortgage other than it being closed out yesterday. I would have expected any communications to start with my existing lender, and not from an outside company whose veracity I couldn't confirm until after creating an account and potentially giving them sensitive information.

[anon_investor]

My guess is they sent something by email which got intercepted by my spam filter

Did you check your spam folder?

Broken Man 1999

I have - I didn't find anything, but it only goes back 30 days; if they sent an earlier communication, there's no way for me to find it. I checked the secure inbox at my old lender, and there is no indication that the mortgage was sold.

You should be okay:
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0 ... e-servicer

Transfer of Servicing
If your loan is transferred to a new servicer, you generally get two notices: one from your current mortgage servicer; the other from the new servicer. In most cases, your current servicer must notify you at least 15 days before the effective date of the transfer, unless you received a written transfer notice at settlement. The effective date is when the first mortgage payment is due at the new servicer’s address. The new servicer must notify you within 15 days after the effective date of the transfer.

Both notices must include:

the name and address of the new servicer
the date the current servicer will stop accepting your mortgage payments
the date the new servicer will begin accepting your mortgage payments
telephone numbers (either toll-free or collect), for the current and new mortgage servicer, for information about the transfer
whether you can continue any optional insurance, such as credit life or disability insurance; what action you must take to maintain coverage; and whether the insurance terms will change
a statement that the transfer will not affect any terms or conditions of your mortgage, except those directly related to the servicing of the loan. For example, if your contract says you were allowed to pay property taxes and insurance premiums on your own, the new servicer cannot demand that you establish an escrow account.
a statement explaining your rights and what to do if you have a question or complaint about the servicing of your loan.
There is a 60-day grace period after the transfer: during this time you cannot be charged a late fee if you mistakenly send your mortgage payment to the old servicer.

[livesoft]

We always got physical letters in regular mail. None of this e-mail junk.

[Independent George]

You should be okay:
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0 ... e-servicer

Transfer of Servicing
If your loan is transferred to a new servicer, you generally get two notices: one from your current mortgage servicer; the other from the new servicer. In most cases, your current servicer must notify you at least 15 days before the effective date of the transfer, unless you received a written transfer notice at settlement. The effective date is when the first mortgage payment is due at the new servicer’s address. The new servicer must notify you within 15 days after the effective date of the transfer.

Both notices must include:

the name and address of the new servicer
the date the current servicer will stop accepting your mortgage payments
the date the new servicer will begin accepting your mortgage payments
telephone numbers (either toll-free or collect), for the current and new mortgage servicer, for information about the transfer
whether you can continue any optional insurance, such as credit life or disability insurance; what action you must take to maintain coverage; and whether the insurance terms will change
a statement that the transfer will not affect any terms or conditions of your mortgage, except those directly related to the servicing of the loan. For example, if your contract says you were allowed to pay property taxes and insurance premiums on your own, the new servicer cannot demand that you establish an escrow account.
a statement explaining your rights and what to do if you have a question or complaint about the servicing of your loan.
There is a 60-day grace period after the transfer: during this time you cannot be charged a late fee if you mistakenly send your mortgage payment to the old servicer.

Awesome info - thanks!

[Walkure]

Maybe a secret admirer paid off the balance?

[CycloRista]

+1 for notification has come by US mail in every instance where my mortgage changed hands (in all cases to Freddie or Fannie). I'll bet the new servicer will be in touch quickly once your payment is not "received"...

[niceguy7376]

When was the mortgage sold?
How many days of new loan prepaid interest in days did you pay?
What did the closing documents say your first payment will be due?

[livesoft]

Years ago we did a refinance and the mortgage was sold before we had to even make the first payment.

[Mr.Chlorine]

We always got physical letters in regular mail. None of this e-mail junk.

Closed on my home May 4th of this year. Got a letter early June saying loan was sold. Lucky for me, the mortgage 'servicer' stayed the same so my auto-pay did not have to change.

[Independent George]

When was the mortgage sold?
How many days of new loan prepaid interest in days did you pay?
What did the closing documents say your first payment will be due?

This was not a refinance - the loan was evidently sold to a new bank, but I have no idea who my new lender is. The existing balance was paid off on 8/3/2020 (the transaction was listed as, "Loan removed due to release"), so my scheduled mortgage payment never went through.

I've had my loan sold before, but I always got snail-mail notifications from both my existing and new lenders about two months before it went through. The first time it got sold, my loan actually got sold back to my original lender (Citi) about two years later. This time, my only indications were my automatic payment not posting, and the aforementioned note that the loan was released.

If nobody wants my money, I'm 100% ok with that. I just don't want to be penalized for not making a payment I was never informed of.

[Monsterflockster]

Title pretty much says it all - my mortgage was paid off yesterday, indicating that it was purchased by a new bank, but I have not been contacted by my new lender. (My guess is they sent something by email which got intercepted by my spam filter). The 1st of the month was Saturday, so I didn't even notice my monthly payment didn't post until this morning.

I tried calling my old lender, but they don't have anyone answering the phones; I sent them a secure message this morning via their web portal, but (1) who knows how long it will be before I receive a human response, and (2) a customer service rep is not likely to know anything about the new lender. I'm concerned that by the time I get it all sorted out, my account is going to be considered past due.

Has anyone else gone through this? What are the chances that the new lender will waive any late fees due to the mixup? How likely am I to get information from the old bank about where my loan went?

Fortunately, my property taxes were already paid from escrow, so at least my cash-strapped state won't be knocking on my door.

This happened with us when we bought our first home. We were never notified (rather recurved as they “said” they sent it). We kept paying our original lender as we had no idea. Well the original lender say on the money and didn’t send it for 6 months. We only knew it was late when we got a “collections” call. After hours of calls they waived all the late fees once they got the check from the original lender but refused to take the late payment status off our credit report. So for 7 years it showed we were 6 months late in our mortgage.

My advice: stay on top of this.

[Dottie57]

We always got physical letters in regular mail. None of this e-mail junk.

+1

[BrandonBogle]

+1 for notification has come by US mail in every instance where my mortgage changed hands (in all cases to Freddie or Fannie). I'll bet the new servicer will be in touch quickly once your payment is not "received"...

We always got physical letters in regular mail. None of this e-mail junk.

Closed on my home May 4th of this year. Got a letter early June saying loan was sold. Lucky for me, the mortgage 'servicer' stayed the same so my auto-pay did not have to change.

Yup. And I got one today that my mortgage owned and serviced at Wells Fargo is now owned by Fannie Mae and serviced by Wells Fargo. So you get the notice even when just the investor changes (as if there was doubt).

[johnnyc321]

I think I was given a grace period if I continued to pay the prior servicer by mistake.

[Independent George]

Quick update: I got a letter from my new lender in the mail. I checked their SEC filings to make sure they were a legit bank, and verified that their registered URL is indeed the same as the one noted in the letter. They also listed my account number from my old lender; between all of these things, I was convinced enough to create an account on their website and set up payment.

Problem solved, but I'm still irritated at the bass-ackwards manner in which this was handled. My first official notice that my loan was sold came six days after it was transferred over, and three days after payment was due. I have still have not received a reply from my old lender. Yes, I did my due diligence, but there is still a fair amount of risk in creating a new account on the basis of an unsolicited letter delivered to my mailbox (which I may well have thrown out had I not checked my account on Monday).

[ResearchMed]

Title pretty much says it all - my mortgage was paid off yesterday, indicating that it was purchased by a new bank, but I have not been contacted by my new lender. (My guess is they sent something by email which got intercepted by my spam filter). The 1st of the month was Saturday, so I didn't even notice my monthly payment didn't post until this morning.

I tried calling my old lender, but they don't have anyone answering the phones; I sent them a secure message this morning via their web portal, but (1) who knows how long it will be before I receive a human response, and (2) a customer service rep is not likely to know anything about the new lender. I'm concerned that by the time I get it all sorted out, my account is going to be considered past due.

Has anyone else gone through this? What are the chances that the new lender will waive any late fees due to the mixup? How likely am I to get information from the old bank about where my loan went?

Fortunately, my property taxes were already paid from escrow, so at least my cash-strapped state won't be knocking on my door.

This happened with us when we bought our first home. We were never notified (rather recurved as they “said” they sent it). We kept paying our original lender as we had no idea. Well the original lender say on the money and didn’t send it for 6 months. We only knew it was late when we got a “collections” call. After hours of calls they waived all the late fees once they got the check from the original lender but refused to take the late payment status off our credit report. So for 7 years it showed we were 6 months late in our mortgage.

My advice: stay on top of this.

You got off easy!

This happened to me in the early 90's.

I was faithfully sending my payments (checks in those days) as directed, and the checks were nicely cashed right on schedule.
HOW could I know there was a problem!?
... until I found a FORECLOSURE notice on my front door
SAY WHAT!?
I had all of the cancelled checks (good old days).

It turned out I was not alone.
The bank had been taken over, and ... they KEPT CASHING ALL (or many/most?) OF THE CHECKS AND KEEPING THE MONEY.
I'm forgetting now why the new bank didn't do something prior to attempting to foreclose. It was quite a scandal.

It was all straightened out eventually, with no impact to credit scores, but it was a nightmare to figure out what was going on for a while, who had the money, and where to send payments.

The way I got some info initially was to call the number on the notice, but it took a while, as that number led to people who had zero idea who I was or why I was calling.

Grrrr.

I still wonder if there was incompetence or mischief involved, or maybe both?

RM

[ResearchMed]

When was the mortgage sold?
How many days of new loan prepaid interest in days did you pay?
What did the closing documents say your first payment will be due?

This was not a refinance - the loan was evidently sold to a new bank, but I have no idea who my new lender is. The existing balance was paid off on 8/3/2020 (the transaction was listed as, "Loan removed due to release"), so my scheduled mortgage payment never went through.

I've had my loan sold before, but I always got snail-mail notifications from both my existing and new lenders about two months before it went through. The first time it got sold, my loan actually got sold back to my original lender (Citi) about two years later. This time, my only indications were my automatic payment not posting, and the aforementioned note that the loan was released.

If nobody wants my money, I'm 100% ok with that. I just don't want to be penalized for not making a payment I was never informed of.

[emphasis added]

See the above story of what happened when I "waited", albeit because I had no idea there was any change, and my checks were being cashed. This was before one could track things online, etc.

I'd strongly urge you not to "just wait".....

RM

[vested1]

Title pretty much says it all - my mortgage was paid off yesterday, indicating that it was purchased by a new bank, but I have not been contacted by my new lender. (My guess is they sent something by email which got intercepted by my spam filter). The 1st of the month was Saturday, so I didn't even notice my monthly payment didn't post until this morning.

I tried calling my old lender, but they don't have anyone answering the phones; I sent them a secure message this morning via their web portal, but (1) who knows how long it will be before I receive a human response, and (2) a customer service rep is not likely to know anything about the new lender. I'm concerned that by the time I get it all sorted out, my account is going to be considered past due.

Has anyone else gone through this? What are the chances that the new lender will waive any late fees due to the mixup? How likely am I to get information from the old bank about where my loan went?

Fortunately, my property taxes were already paid from escrow, so at least my cash-strapped state won't be knocking on my door.

This happened with us when we bought our first home. We were never notified (rather recurved as they “said” they sent it). We kept paying our original lender as we had no idea. Well the original lender say on the money and didn’t send it for 6 months. We only knew it was late when we got a “collections” call. After hours of calls they waived all the late fees once they got the check from the original lender but refused to take the late payment status off our credit report. So for 7 years it showed we were 6 months late in our mortgage.

My advice: stay on top of this.

You got off easy!

This happened to me in the early 90's.

I was faithfully sending my payments (checks in those days) as directed, and the checks were nicely cashed right on schedule.
HOW could I know there was a problem!?
... until I found a FORECLOSURE notice on my front door
SAY WHAT!?
I had all of the cancelled checks (good old days).

It turned out I was not alone.
The bank had been taken over, and ... they KEPT CASHING ALL (or many/most?) OF THE CHECKS AND KEEPING THE MONEY.
I'm forgetting now why the new bank didn't do something prior to attempting to foreclose. It was quite a scandal.

It was all straightened out eventually, with no impact to credit scores, but it was a nightmare to figure out what was going on for a while, who had the money, and where to send payments.

The way I got some info initially was to call the number on the notice, but it took a while, as that number led to people who had zero idea who I was or why I was calling.

Grrrr.

I still wonder if there was incompetence or mischief involved, or maybe both?

RM

This happened to me also, and was likely the same lender, although they kept changing their name to try to distance themselves from litigation. My loan was sold days before a refinance was due to be completed with a different lender. I was current on all my payments to the original lender, and also with physical checks to the lender who bought my loan, which posted at my bank before the 1st of each month during the time my refinance was being held up. The refinance was being held up because the lender who bought my mortgage refused to provide a payoff amount to the lender I was refinancing with, which is illegal per a State law that I referred to in my correspondence with them. There is a time frame that has to be met for providing payoff information, which they missed by months.

They gave me a variety of excuses ranging from a delayed computer upgrade, to referring me to "managers" who were never available, and whom on subsequent calls were identified as being non-management.

The lender who bought my loan cashed my checks but started sending me threatening letters, saying they were starting the repossession process on my home due to non-payment, and that a collection agency was being notified to handle my account. Subsequent to that I started receiving rude calls from a collection agency demanding that I pay late penalties in addition to the payments they said I had missed. This went on for several months and I lost the locked in refinance rate with the other lender because the date to complete the refinance had passed. No letters or calls to the lender who bought the mortgage, which included copies of the cashed checks and reference to the State law had any effect.

I resolved it by finding out which State government agency was responsible for licencing that lender to do business in the State, and sent that agency a letter in email with a copy to the lender. My problems disappeared the next day with profuse apologies from the lender who immediately acknowledged they had received all my payments, and simultaneously provided the payoff amount for the refinance with the other lender. A review of complaints about the mortgage company that tried to steal my home were in the thousands on the internet with many tales of foreclosures regardless of zero late payments.

I would advise the OP to stay on top of it.

[vested1]

BTW, if the OP's new lender is or has been associated at one time with One West, Indymac, Nationstar, Mr Cooper, CIT or any one of their affiliates I would pay even closer attention to their mortgage status. Officers at these companies tend to migrate from one to the other, bringing their lucrative policies with them.

A history of foreclosures on homes of seniors who entered into reverse mortgage agreements in 2008/2009 can be found easily with an internet search, where certain easily recognizable names are prominent. These homes were categorized by the lender as "unoccupied", providing a pretense for voiding the agreement, even though the seniors who owned them either resided there, or were temporarily housed in care homes with the intent to return home when they got better. This "intent" by the senior in the care home to return home is what excludes the seizure of their homes by the government as repayment of costs for their care when on Medicaid, during their lifetime.

As for the possibility of trying to bar a certain lender from buying your loan, forget about it. That ability is not given to the consumer.

[inverter]

Are there any mortgage companies that guarantee not to sell your loans? Or at least guarantee they will be the servicer? My parent’s mortgage was sold like 4 times from 2012-2017. Very annoying.

[bberris]

Are there any mortgage companies that guarantee not to sell your loans? Or at least guarantee they will be the servicer? My parent’s mortgage was sold like 4 times from 2012-2017. Very annoying.

I don't know about guarantee, but I've heard local credit unions are least likely to sell servicing. When you apply, ask. If you are dealing with a mortgage broker, you can be sure the servicing and note will be sold quickly. Selling the actual note should not matter to you if the servicer is the same. On the flip side of this, the standardization and liquidity of pooled mortgages makes the US kind of a special place for home financing.

[whodidntante]

Are there any mortgage companies that guarantee not to sell your loans? Or at least guarantee they will be the servicer? My parent’s mortgage was sold like 4 times from 2012-2017. Very annoying.

I don't know about guarantee, but I've heard local credit unions are least likely to sell servicing. When you apply, ask. If you are dealing with a mortgage broker, you can be sure the servicing and note will be sold quickly. Selling the actual note should not matter to you if the servicer is the same. On the flip side of this, the standardization and liquidity of pooled mortgages makes the US kind of a special place for home financing.

It is true that some credit unions and some banks are more likely to sell your mortgage than others. My credit union said it clearly: we do not sell our notes and we service them ourselves. In my case, they kept their promise (loan is now paid off thus past tense). Good luck enforcing that verbal contract, though. They can sell it any time and they will if they need liquidity, or they bring in new leadership that looks at the books and says "why did the last leader hold all these notes?"

[Mudpuppy]

Are there any mortgage companies that guarantee not to sell your loans? Or at least guarantee they will be the servicer? My parent’s mortgage was sold like 4 times from 2012-2017. Very annoying.

I don't know about guarantee, but I've heard local credit unions are least likely to sell servicing. When you apply, ask. If you are dealing with a mortgage broker, you can be sure the servicing and note will be sold quickly. Selling the actual note should not matter to you if the servicer is the same. On the flip side of this, the standardization and liquidity of pooled mortgages makes the US kind of a special place for home financing.

It is true that some credit unions and some banks are more likely to sell your mortgage than others. My credit union said it clearly: we do not sell our notes and we service them ourselves. In my case, they kept their promise (loan is now paid off thus past tense). Good luck enforcing that verbal contract, though. They can sell it any time and they will if they need liquidity, or they bring in new leadership that looks at the books and says "why did the last leader hold all these notes?"

That's pretty much the most important thing to keep in mind: there is no guarantee. There is a local credit union that made a similar claim, but then they outsourced their servicing to a company with rather mixed reviews online when it comes to servicing. Not as bad as what the OP has dealt with, but not great either. I'm sure that outsourcing the servicing improved some bottom line metric on the books, even though the community was not thrilled about it.

[bberris]

My loan estimate says that the broker plans to transfer servicing. There is a checkbox on the last page. It looks like a required disclosure but of course is not binding. Still, I don't see why they would mislead on this.

Servicing We intend
to service your loan. If so, you will make your payments to us.
x to transfer servicing of your loan.

[brajalle]

It is true that some credit unions and some banks are more likely to sell your mortgage than others. My credit union said it clearly: we do not sell our notes and we service them ourselves. In my case, they kept their promise (loan is now paid off thus past tense). Good luck enforcing that verbal contract, though. They can sell it any time and they will if they need liquidity, or they bring in new leadership that looks at the books and says "why did the last leader hold all these notes?"

Absolutely true - a couple of friends had loans with a local bank that promised they would hold the note - then that bank sold them a few years later when they started having some losses. On the other hand, another local bank with our mortgage said they'd keep the note - and they have. They were purchased about 4 years ago (they were doing well), and the new bank has continued to hold the mortgage.

[celia]

Here's a similar situation, but the suspected reason was a change of service provider, not lender.
https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinanc ... e_400k_on/
So you should try to contact both the lender and service provider.

I don't see how this kind of notice would ever be sent by email. It was probably sent by regular mail, but in many cases the mail is very slow right now. I spoke with our carrier today who relayed 2 more employees at our post office have covid and they are understaffed. I recently sent two letters 2/3 the way across the country and one letter took 11 days and another 13 days to arrive. The sender(s) are likely unaware of the slow mail. (Your mail service may be different.)

[Stinky]

Quick update: I got a letter from my new lender in the mail. I checked their SEC filings to make sure they were a legit bank, and verified that their registered URL is indeed the same as the one noted in the letter. They also listed my account number from my old lender; between all of these things, I was convinced enough to create an account on their website and set up payment.

Problem solved, but I'm still irritated at the bass-ackwards manner in which this was handled. My first official notice that my loan was sold came six days after it was transferred over, and three days after payment was due. I have still have not received a reply from my old lender. Yes, I did my due diligence, but there is still a fair amount of risk in creating a new account on the basis of an unsolicited letter delivered to my mailbox (which I may well have thrown out had I not checked my account on Monday).

Good for you that the new lender finally contacted you. And you've done the right thing in setting up an account and making a payment.

I'd just watch the new account like a hawk for a month or two, during the settling-in period. And just hope that your loan isn't sold again.