Kenkat wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:08 pm
This may not be of use, but I’ve found those oval shutoff handles tend to strip - so you turn then and they just spin, doing nothing. I’ve removed them by taking the screw off the front, then use a vise grip to grab the valve and turn off the water. Just something to possibly try before you start replacing the entire valve.
I was thinking of that too. I could do that without shutting of the water to the entire house I believe.
Yes. Just be reasonable about the amount of force you use. If the valve itself is frozen or locked up, you don’t want to break it off.
This is a better way to remove the compression fittings.
Kobra wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:15 pm
I just had to do the same repair a couple of months ago. I purchased a Brasscraft G2CR19X C1 1/4 turn angle valve from my local Home Depot. I was told by a plumber buddy that a drop of oil on the threads will make tightening easy but not to use any putty or Teflon tape on the threads. The only thing I noticed is the new valves have a plastic liner inside instead of being solid metal.
Mark
Did your plumber buddy explain why he recommended using a drop of oil rather than Teflon tape?
Last edited by palanzo on Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Housedoc wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:57 pm
I have reused the ferrel and nut many times. Get a new valve, coat threads with Teflon pipe dope. Unscrew old valve, install new valve. I use a small 6 inch paint roller tray to catch water.
I don't have the room to cut off the ferrule and start over. Have you ever had a leak or problem in reusing the ferrule and nut?
galawdawg wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:38 am
I'd suggest you save yourself a lot of time, money and aggravation and start small. It sounds like you may just need to replace the packing nut gasket and seat washer. The packing nut washer just slips on the valve stem, the seat washer screws onto the end of the stem. You can also buy a kit.
Others have suggested repacking the stem with graphite rope. Is this really necessary? It seems like the stem washer is what seals the stem.
I don't know that there is a significant difference between the two. In fact, you don't have to use a repair kit with new stem, you could just replace the washers!
The repair kit I linked comes with everything you need. On the part you linked, you would also need to buy a packing nut washer. Those usually come in a multi-pack. I'd recommend you take your old stem including the packing washer with you to HD or Lowes to be sure you get the correct size.
Good point. The stems are probably just fine. I can just get a bulk pack of valve washers and packing washers. Thanks.
Housedoc wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:57 pm
I have reused the ferrel and nut many times. Get a new valve, coat threads with Teflon pipe dope. Unscrew old valve, install new valve. I use a small 6 inch paint roller tray to catch water.
I don't have the room to cut off the ferrule and start over. Have you ever had a leak or problem in reusing the ferrule and nut?
Never had a leak, probably have done 10 or more this way. Crank down on nut while holding valve using another wrench. Valve has flat spots on opposite sides for the wrench.
Also, keep all faucets closed while removing stop valve. Minimal water flow as there is no vent to assist water flow. Turn off MAIN water valve of course.
Has anyone replaced the multi-turn stop valves with Sharkbites? I have about a 1 inch copper stub. Will the Sharkbite work if there is a depression in the copper pipe due the the ferrule? I just don't have the room to cut the copper pipe back to the ferrule and still have 1 inch for the Sharkbite.
I would NOT use a sharkbite type fitting over any imperfection in the pipe, especially a depression from a ferrule.
If there is not enough pipe sticking out you will have to try one of the other methods suggested.
Start with repairing the valve if that doesn't work reuse the old ferrule and nut with a new valve.
If that doesn't work, they sell ferrule pullers (amazon) $15 or so. https://www.amazon.com/Armour-Line-RP77 ... 173&sr=8-4
Then use a new nut and new ferrule.
If that doesn't work call a plumber for soldering work, if you don't know how to solder.
Thank you for confirming that about the Sharkbites. This is really helpful advice. Can a new ferrule and nut be used even if there is a depression from the old ferrule? Hopefully I won't need to go that far but it would be good to know.
I have not soldered for years. I will solder on copper extensions if needed but I think one of the other steps will work.
Housedoc wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:57 pm
I have reused the ferrel and nut many times. Get a new valve, coat threads with Teflon pipe dope. Unscrew old valve, install new valve. I use a small 6 inch paint roller tray to catch water.
I don't have the room to cut off the ferrule and start over. Have you ever had a leak or problem in reusing the ferrule and nut?
Never had a leak, probably have done 10 or more this way. Crank down on nut while holding valve using another wrench. Valve has flat spots on opposite sides for the wrench.
Yup. I am familiar with using two wrenches. The earlier video suggested only half a turn and then a bit more if there is a leak.
palanzo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:43 pm
Others have suggested repacking the stem with graphite rope. Is this really necessary? It seems like the stem washer is what seals the stem.
Nope, not if the washer holds. It is just an alternative, especially useful on very old valves.
palanzo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:43 pm
Others have suggested repacking the stem with graphite rope. Is this really necessary? It seems like the stem washer is what seals the stem.
Nope, not if the washer holds. It is just an alternative, especially useful on very old valves.
Kobra wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:15 pm
I just had to do the same repair a couple of months ago. I purchased a Brasscraft G2CR19X C1 1/4 turn angle valve from my local Home Depot. I was told by a plumber buddy that a drop of oil on the threads will make tightening easy but not to use any putty or Teflon tape on the threads. The only thing I noticed is the new valves have a plastic liner inside instead of being solid metal.
Mark
Did your plumber buddy explain why he recommended using a drop of oil rather than Teflon tape?
I am not Mark or his plumber buddy but thread sealants such as joint compound (pipe dope or thread seal tape such as PTFE tape) are unnecessary on compression fitting threads, as it is not the thread that seals the joint but rather the compression of the ferrule between the nut and pipe
Kobra wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:15 pm
I just had to do the same repair a couple of months ago. I purchased a Brasscraft G2CR19X C1 1/4 turn angle valve from my local Home Depot. I was told by a plumber buddy that a drop of oil on the threads will make tightening easy but not to use any putty or Teflon tape on the threads. The only thing I noticed is the new valves have a plastic liner inside instead of being solid metal.
Mark
Did your plumber buddy explain why he recommended using a drop of oil rather than Teflon tape?
I am not Mark or his plumber buddy but thread sealants such as joint compound (pipe dope or thread seal tape such as PTFE tape) are unnecessary on compression fitting threads, as it is not the thread that seals the joint but rather the compression of the ferrule between the nut and pipe
Good point, and any tape may actually wind up interfering with the seal to the ferrule.
Plumbing is a lot like investing, many ways to go about it. Many plumbers use a little dope on every threaded connection. If you never have had a problem with it, brush on a bit. Kinda like Dollar average or lump sum buying. 20yrs down the road all will be good.
Housedoc wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:41 pm
Plumbing is a lot like investing, many ways to go about it. Many plumbers use a little dope on every threaded connection. If you never have had a problem with it, brush on a bit. Kinda like Dollar average or lump sum buying. 20yrs down the road all will be good.
I've exchanged a couple of emails with Brasscraft and they do not recommend anything on the threads except a drop of oil to make it easier to tighten. Brasscraft customer support is fantastic.
Sandtrap wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:35 pm
OP
You can also replace the angle stop valve with a 1/4 turn shutoff. High quality. Get the best one you can.
j
The current version is the Brasscraft KTCR19X. I'm going to redo all the stop valves in the house. Tired of the multi turn valves not shutting off completely or leaking drops past the stem.
I am going to replace the multi turn valves with 1/4 turn valves.
Can a new ferrule and compression nut be used even if there is a depression in the copper pipe from the old ferrule? Or should one just use the old ferrule and compression nut with the new 1/4 turn valve?
palanzo wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:01 pm
I am going to replace the multi turn valves with 1/4 turn valves.
Can a new ferrule and compression nut be used even if there is a depression in the copper pipe from the old ferrule? Or should one just use the old ferrule and compression nut with the new 1/4 turn valve?
Sometimes they drip and ooze, sometimes using the same spot works out fine. Have to try and see.
Why replace them if they don't need replacement? I've never had to replace a shut off valve in my thirty years of home ownership nor on the rental properties I used to own. Just a washer here and there and good as new.
If you do decide to swap them out, just be aware that working on a short plumbing line behind a commode and often next to a close wall, cabinet or tub isn't much fun and if you mess something up with replacement, you'll probably end up paying a plumber.
galawdawg wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:20 pm
Why replace them if they don't need replacement? I've never had to replace a shut off valve in my thirty years of home ownership nor on the rental properties I used to own. Just a washer here and there and good as new.
If you do decide to swap them out, just be aware that working on a short plumbing line behind a commode and often next to a close wall, cabinet or tub isn't much fun and if you mess something up with replacement, you'll probably end up paying a plumber.
Have you tried replacing the washers?
I have several that won't shut off completely. I replaced the cartridge and two O rings in the kitchen faucet today as it was leaking and had to shut off the water to the house. I have several others that leak a bit through the stem.
I have been in touch with Brasscraft and they do not sell washer sets. They do sell a kit with stem and washers.
I have hard water in this area so that may be part of the problem.
If I use 1/4 turn brass ball valves I don't think I will have a problem again. I wish I had longer stubs in the house so I could cut off a bit of the copper pipe, deburr and use new ferrules and compression nuts.
Sandtrap wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:35 pm
OP
You can also replace the angle stop valve with a 1/4 turn shutoff. High quality. Get the best one you can.
j
Is a Brasscraft 1/4 turn shutoff valve of high quality? I buy them at Home Depot and they are made of stainless steel, not brass.
galawdawg wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:20 pm
Why replace them if they don't need replacement? I've never had to replace a shut off valve in my thirty years of home ownership nor on the rental properties I used to own. Just a washer here and there and good as new.
If you do decide to swap them out, just be aware that working on a short plumbing line behind a commode and often next to a close wall, cabinet or tub isn't much fun and if you mess something up with replacement, you'll probably end up paying a plumber.
Have you tried replacing the washers?
I have several that won't shut off completely. I replaced the cartridge and two O rings in the kitchen faucet today as it was leaking and had to shut off the water to the house. I have several others that leak a bit through the stem.
I have been in touch with Brasscraft and they do not sell washer sets. They do sell a kit with stem and washers.
I have hard water in this area so that may be part of the problem.
If I use 1/4 turn brass ball valves I don't think I will have a problem again. I wish I had longer stubs in the house so I could cut off a bit of the copper pipe, deburr and use new ferrules and compression nuts.
If you don't want to purchase the Brasscraft rebuilt kit (with stem and washers), if you take one of the stems with washers to HD or Lowes you should be able to purchase packages of each type and size of washer you need, they are usually made in very common sizes. For example, Lowes sells Danco packages of ten (10) washers for $2.48 each.
If you decide to replace the valves instead, best of luck! I am certain that if I tried replacing a handful of those with compression fittings in confined spaces with a small stub of pipe to work with, I'd be having to call a plumber for sure!
Sandtrap wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:35 pm
OP
You can also replace the angle stop valve with a 1/4 turn shutoff. High quality. Get the best one you can.
j
Is a Brasscraft 1/4 turn shutoff valve of high quality? I buy them at Home Depot and they are made of stainless steel, not brass.
Agree.
That was the only pic I could find.
Brass body valves and fixtures are generally high quality
galawdawg wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:38 am
I'd suggest you save yourself a lot of time, money and aggravation and start small. It sounds like you may just need to replace the packing nut gasket and seat washer. The packing nut washer just slips on the valve stem, the seat washer screws onto the end of the stem. You can also buy a kit.
Nice video. could be my issue. I'll buy everything. 1/4 turn shutoff valve, and a rebuild kit. Paint tray to catch the water. Thank you. I might not do it today, as if the crap hits the fan from some unplanned reason, I won't need an emergency plumber to come.
I suspect so. You likely have the shut-off valve equivalent of a dripping faucet. Most folks don't replace the entire faucet when it starts to drip....unless they want to upgrade to a different style.
If the problem is just the rubber washer and gasket, you should be able to fix it in just a few minutes, not counting the trip to the store.
Good luck!
I did it this way. I shut off the water, btw about 10 gallons came out. Anyway, I removed the packing nut, unscrewed the plastic valve, and saw that there was no washer, so I took the fast way out and put the new valve in.
Now for the tank filler thing-I've done those before but you know what f'd me up, The supply line didn't seem to "fit in" nicely to the new filler valve I undid, redid 3 times all 3 times leaked from that f'n thing.
So a quick run to HD, and got the braided type, and bam. No leaks first try.
Thank you all. Sure I took the quick way but I now know the process and it's repeatable
Odd thing about the water, On my main, I have 2 handles, one before and one after the meter. I turned off after the meter, and water just kept flowing. after about 10 or so gallons (maybe more) I turn off the handle before the meter and bam Water instantly stopped. Odd but just wanted to report back.
galawdawg wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:20 pm
Why replace them if they don't need replacement? I've never had to replace a shut off valve in my thirty years of home ownership nor on the rental properties I used to own. Just a washer here and there and good as new.
If you do decide to swap them out, just be aware that working on a short plumbing line behind a commode and often next to a close wall, cabinet or tub isn't much fun and if you mess something up with replacement, you'll probably end up paying a plumber.
Have you tried replacing the washers?
I have several that won't shut off completely. I replaced the cartridge and two O rings in the kitchen faucet today as it was leaking and had to shut off the water to the house. I have several others that leak a bit through the stem.
I have been in touch with Brasscraft and they do not sell washer sets. They do sell a kit with stem and washers.
I have hard water in this area so that may be part of the problem.
If I use 1/4 turn brass ball valves I don't think I will have a problem again. I wish I had longer stubs in the house so I could cut off a bit of the copper pipe, deburr and use new ferrules and compression nuts.
If you don't want to purchase the Brasscraft rebuilt kit (with stem and washers), if you take one of the stems with washers to HD or Lowes you should be able to purchase packages of each type and size of washer you need, they are usually made in very common sizes. For example, Lowes sells Danco packages of ten (10) washers for $2.48 each.
If you decide to replace the valves instead, best of luck! I am certain that if I tried replacing a handful of those with compression fittings in confined spaces with a small stub of pipe to work with, I'd be having to call a plumber for sure!
galawdawg you've convinced me. I will get the Brasscraft rebuild kit (with stem and washers). That's the low risk solution. I've checked and I can do curbside pickup at HD. I don't want to go inside the HD store if at all possible.
If Brasscraft sold the washers separately I would get them. If I go to HD they may have the correct washer size but maybe not the correct materials. Brasscraft is rather particular on the materials and I trust them on this.
mrmass wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:23 pm
Odd thing about the water, On my main, I have 2 handles, one before and one after the meter. I turned off after the meter, and water just kept flowing. after about 10 or so gallons (maybe more) I turn off the handle before the meter and bam Water instantly stopped. Odd but just wanted to report back.
Thank you again everyone.
The valve is likely bad. When you replace it makes sure you get a high quality all brass gate valve.
galawdawg wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:20 pm
Why replace them if they don't need replacement? I've never had to replace a shut off valve in my thirty years of home ownership nor on the rental properties I used to own. Just a washer here and there and good as new.
If you do decide to swap them out, just be aware that working on a short plumbing line behind a commode and often next to a close wall, cabinet or tub isn't much fun and if you mess something up with replacement, you'll probably end up paying a plumber.
Have you tried replacing the washers?
I have several that won't shut off completely. I replaced the cartridge and two O rings in the kitchen faucet today as it was leaking and had to shut off the water to the house. I have several others that leak a bit through the stem.
I have been in touch with Brasscraft and they do not sell washer sets. They do sell a kit with stem and washers.
I have hard water in this area so that may be part of the problem.
If I use 1/4 turn brass ball valves I don't think I will have a problem again. I wish I had longer stubs in the house so I could cut off a bit of the copper pipe, deburr and use new ferrules and compression nuts.
If you don't want to purchase the Brasscraft rebuilt kit (with stem and washers), if you take one of the stems with washers to HD or Lowes you should be able to purchase packages of each type and size of washer you need, they are usually made in very common sizes. For example, Lowes sells Danco packages of ten (10) washers for $2.48 each.
If you decide to replace the valves instead, best of luck! I am certain that if I tried replacing a handful of those with compression fittings in confined spaces with a small stub of pipe to work with, I'd be having to call a plumber for sure!
galawdawg you've convinced me. I will get the Brasscraft rebuild kit (with stem and washers). That's the low risk solution. I've checked and I can do curbside pickup at HD. I don't want to go inside the HD store if at all possible.
If Brasscraft sold the washers separately I would get them. If I go to HD they may have the correct washer size but maybe not the correct materials. Brasscraft is rather particular on the materials and I trust them on this.
mrmass wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:23 pm
Odd thing about the water, On my main, I have 2 handles, one before and one after the meter. I turned off after the meter, and water just kept flowing. after about 10 or so gallons (maybe more) I turn off the handle before the meter and bam Water instantly stopped. Odd but just wanted to report back.
Thank you again everyone.
The valve is likely bad. When you replace it makes sure you get a high quality all brass gate valve.
Why replace it? I’d only consider replacing the valve if the meter needed to be replaced.
galawdawg wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:20 pm
Why replace them if they don't need replacement? I've never had to replace a shut off valve in my thirty years of home ownership nor on the rental properties I used to own. Just a washer here and there and good as new.
If you do decide to swap them out, just be aware that working on a short plumbing line behind a commode and often next to a close wall, cabinet or tub isn't much fun and if you mess something up with replacement, you'll probably end up paying a plumber.
Have you tried replacing the washers?
I have several that won't shut off completely. I replaced the cartridge and two O rings in the kitchen faucet today as it was leaking and had to shut off the water to the house. I have several others that leak a bit through the stem.
I have been in touch with Brasscraft and they do not sell washer sets. They do sell a kit with stem and washers.
I have hard water in this area so that may be part of the problem.
If I use 1/4 turn brass ball valves I don't think I will have a problem again. I wish I had longer stubs in the house so I could cut off a bit of the copper pipe, deburr and use new ferrules and compression nuts.
If you don't want to purchase the Brasscraft rebuilt kit (with stem and washers), if you take one of the stems with washers to HD or Lowes you should be able to purchase packages of each type and size of washer you need, they are usually made in very common sizes. For example, Lowes sells Danco packages of ten (10) washers for $2.48 each.
If you decide to replace the valves instead, best of luck! I am certain that if I tried replacing a handful of those with compression fittings in confined spaces with a small stub of pipe to work with, I'd be having to call a plumber for sure!
galawdawg you've convinced me. I will get the Brasscraft rebuild kit (with stem and washers). That's the low risk solution. I've checked and I can do curbside pickup at HD. I don't want to go inside the HD store if at all possible.
If Brasscraft sold the washers separately I would get them. If I go to HD they may have the correct washer size but maybe not the correct materials. Brasscraft is rather particular on the materials and I trust them on this.
mrmass wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:23 pm
Odd thing about the water, On my main, I have 2 handles, one before and one after the meter. I turned off after the meter, and water just kept flowing. after about 10 or so gallons (maybe more) I turn off the handle before the meter and bam Water instantly stopped. Odd but just wanted to report back.
Thank you again everyone.
The valve is likely bad. When you replace it makes sure you get a high quality all brass gate valve.
Why replace it? I’d only consider replacing the valve if the meter needed to be replaced.
Because one day you may need to shut off the water in an emergency and the other valve may fail as well. The fact that the main shut off valve does not shut off is a concern. I doubt they are gate valves. I had the same problem because the builder took the cheap option. One day I had to call a professional plumber who advised me only to use a gate valve which he did. I forget the type of valve the builder used but it was not a gate valve.
mrmass wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:23 pm
Odd thing about the water, On my main, I have 2 handles, one before and one after the meter. I turned off after the meter, and water just kept flowing. after about 10 or so gallons (maybe more) I turn off the handle before the meter and bam Water instantly stopped. Odd but just wanted to report back.
Thank you again everyone.
The valve is likely bad. When you replace it makes sure you get a high quality all brass gate valve.
Why replace it? I’d only consider replacing the valve if the meter needed to be replaced.
Because one day you may need to shut off the water in an emergency and the other valve may fail as well. The fact that the main shut off vale does not shut off is a concern. I doubt they are gate valves.
You might consider adding a 3rd shut off valve, just in case.
mrmass wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:23 pm
Odd thing about the water, On my main, I have 2 handles, one before and one after the meter. I turned off after the meter, and water just kept flowing. after about 10 or so gallons (maybe more) I turn off the handle before the meter and bam Water instantly stopped. Odd but just wanted to report back.
Thank you again everyone.
The valve is likely bad. When you replace it makes sure you get a high quality all brass gate valve.
Why replace it? I’d only consider replacing the valve if the meter needed to be replaced.
Because one day you may need to shut off the water in an emergency and the other valve may fail as well. The fact that the main shut off vale does not shut off is a concern. I doubt they are gate valves.
You might consider adding a 3rd shut off valve, just in case.
The valve is likely bad. When you replace it makes sure you get a high quality all brass gate valve.
Why replace it? I’d only consider replacing the valve if the meter needed to be replaced.
Because one day you may need to shut off the water in an emergency and the other valve may fail as well. The fact that the main shut off vale does not shut off is a concern. I doubt they are gate valves.
You might consider adding a 3rd shut off valve, just in case.
BTW my post-meter shutoff is a gate valve.
Good idea. Have you added a third valve?
I didn’t need to, and haven’t felt the need for a 4th.
Home came complete with 3 shut offs. There are valves in front yard on each side of meter, and another gate valve on main line (past irrigation takeoff) where it comes up from slab.
Kenkat wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:08 pm
This may not be of use, but I’ve found those oval shutoff handles tend to strip - so you turn then and they just spin, doing nothing. I’ve removed them by taking the screw off the front, then use a vise grip to grab the valve and turn off the water. Just something to possibly try before you start replacing the entire valve.
I was thinking of that too. I could do that without shutting of the water to the entire house I believe.
Yes. Just be reasonable about the amount of force you use. If the valve itself is frozen or locked up, you don’t want to break it off.
This is a better way to remove the compression fittings.
neilpilot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:13 pm
Home came complete with 3 shut offs. There are valves in front yard on each side of meter, and another gate valve on main line (past irrigation takeoff) where it comes up from slab.
That's how ours is set up as well. Two at the meter at the street and one in the basement.
Here are my two shutoffs at the main. Left after the meter, right before the meter.
I initially used the left one thinking the water was shutoff. I didn't hear anything but then again the taps were open above me in the house. I waited and waited. Then figured I'd try the right one and bam off. I assume I need a plumber to replace what might be the broken one.
mrmass wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:43 am
Here are my two shutoffs at the main. Left after the meter, right before the meter.
I initially used the left one thinking the water was shutoff. I didn't hear anything but then again the taps were open above me in the house. I waited and waited. Then figured I'd try the right one and bam off. I assume I need a plumber to replace what might be the broken one.
You likely also have a shut-off in your yard close to the street under a small round or rectangular cover. Usually it looks like this:
Those holes are so the water utility can padlock the valve closed after someone has service disconnected for non-payment!
mrmass wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:43 am
Here are my two shutoffs at the main. Left after the meter, right before the meter.
I initially used the left one thinking the water was shutoff. I didn't hear anything but then again the taps were open above me in the house. I waited and waited. Then figured I'd try the right one and bam off. I assume I need a plumber to replace what might be the broken one.
EDIT... IF female fitting at the meter is 1" ...
Change the ball valve to a 1"
Change the pex pipe to 1"
change the sharkbite straight coupling to a 1" x 3/4" reducer
Wow, nice. Thank you. I'm gonna guess you've done this before. Either way, Thank you.
