Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

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hightower
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by hightower »

cenvin wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:43 pm I'm planning on buying a new car with cash (cashier's check).

I'm not interested in dealership financing, or any of the high margin junk they try to sell you in F&I (such as "protection packages", extended warranties, VIN etching, etc) and I don't have a trade-in.

I'm also not terribly keen on playing the game of hiding the fact that I'm paying cash until the last minute so as to try to negotiate a better deal by giving them (false) hope that they might profit from all of the above (which I plan to decline).

Yes, amazingly, I “just want to buy a car”. But I fully realize that mission is 100% incompatible with their business model.

Some dealerships try to say they need a credit app (and my SSN) in order to satisfy “federal requirements/Patriot Act” (to my knowledge not true because there are no SSN's on OFAC SDN list) or for vehicle registration purposes (also not true to my knowledge because the DMV new vehicle registration form only requires my driver's license number, not my SSN), or because I'm paying “cash” and they must file IRS form 8300 (also not true to my knowledge because a cashiers check over $10k is not considered cash by the IRS, hence no need to file form 8300).

Those kinds of shenanigans aside, they can legitimately argue they need a backup form of funding in case my check bounces. But I'm paying with a cashiers check and I'm willing to let them hold the car at the dealership until they verify that the funds are in their account.

To my knowledge, all that is really required to buy a car is:
1. My full name and address
2. My driver's license
3. My proof of auto insurance
4. My payment for the car

I'm just trying to decide if being “cooperative” and letting the dealership run my credit anyway will make the process less stressful for me than fighting with them over this matter.
First of all, never tell the dealership you're paying cash. They won't give you as good of a price because they'll assume you're "rich." Always pretend like you can't afford much and take a loan on the car. Then, negotiate a really great price. They'll just try to gouge you with a higher interest rate. Then, as soon as you get home and before your first payment is due, pay it off in full. You won't pay a dime in interest and your credit report continues to look great.
I just purchased a new Honda Ridgeline this way and got a price that was under blue book for my area, but they gave me a 5.8% loan. I paid it off in full already and never paid any interest.

Second, why are you so worried about them checking your credit in the first place? One credit pull will have zero effect on your score. And unless you're about to apply for a mortgage or something, who cares?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by BrandonBogle »

cenvin wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:43 pm I'm planning on buying a new car with cash (cashier's check).

I'm not interested in dealership financing, or any of the high margin junk they try to sell you in F&I (such as "protection packages", extended warranties, VIN etching, etc) and I don't have a trade-in.

I'm also not terribly keen on playing the game of hiding the fact that I'm paying cash until the last minute so as to try to negotiate a better deal by giving them (false) hope that they might profit from all of the above (which I plan to decline).
Raybo wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:24 pm If you lock your credit before going to the dealership, they won’t be able to check your credit without you unlocking it first.
eye.surgeon wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:20 pm I've bought new and used cars for cash many times and never had my credit run. Don't undermine your negotiating power by telling them up front you are paying cash , but this doesn't mean you are playing a game. Simply answered their question as to whether I would finance with a simple "it depends on the cost of money". And don't let them run your credit, simply tell them your FICA score is 750+, they don't need to run it anyways until it's time to finance and by then you've stated you're paying cash.
Essentially I’m just echoing other commenters. My goal when buying a car is to get the car with nearly the least I need pay (I say nearly because the effort for maybe another $100 off isn’t worth my time). As such, like eye.surgeon, I tell them I might finance if the numbers work in my favor, but let’s see what those numbers are.

Meanwhile, as a matter of normal course for me, I keep my credit reports frozen. I wouldn’t tell them my SSN if they asked up front (even after the above statement), but I would tell them that my credit is frozen and let’s see about the deal before I unfreeze my report.

There have been plenty of times that I end up just writing them a check and leaving (often a blank check from outside financier). I have no qualms about coming back in a few days to pick up the car, which I likely would have to do anyway as I need to coordinate a ride with someone as I haven’t mastered driving two cars home yet.

I just think the mentality of being a “difficult” customer doesn’t help with the goal of getting a good deal. If that isn’t your goal, then by all means freeze your credit, say no, and tell them if they keep pushing you’ll just leave. But I find I get better deals with honey instead of vinegar.
bluebolt
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by bluebolt »

eye.surgeon wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:22 pm While I would agree a credit drop is no big deal to most people here, a hard credit check stays on your credit report for 2 years, not a month. And for those with marginal credit, it can make a difference.
Hard inquiries only count against your FICO score for the first twelve months (https://www.myfico.com/credit-education ... -inquiries) and have a small and declining impact for those with good credit.

Agree that it is more complicated if you don't have good credit, but I don't think many of those folks are paying cash for their car.

More discussion on this topic:
https://wallethub.com/answers/cs/how-ma ... 140706774/
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

hdcd wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:18 am My son was buying a car and put down a 2k deposit as it was a holiday weekend and he really wanted the car. He was already approved for the loan through the credit union and they were set to send over a certified check after the holiday. The entire process, the dealer insisted they run his credit. Told us it would take 2 weeks to process the DMV, The credit union check wasn't a guaranteed payment, etc. They threw every excuse in the book at us to run his credit. We kept saying no. Come Monday, he got his car, the DMV title was handled in a timely fashion, and no issues once they got their check. Just say no. In our state, if you don't agree to the credit check, and they run it anyways, they open themselves up to a lawsuit.
What a bunch of crap.

My son bought a car yesterday. I went in Friday to drive it while he was at work. I negotiated for him and left a deposit on my credit card. I let them know that my son was already pre-approved for the loan. He came in Friday after work and I met there. He signed the purchase and sale and took the copy and made an appointment at DCU to finalize the loan and pick up the check. We then brought the check over to the dealer. The dealer will work with the insurance company Monday and then as they are a "Drive" dealer, they are able to register the car and issue plates once insurance is verified. This is a Massachusetts thing as we have no such thing as temporary plates (and the state does not recognize temp tags from other states).

No Credit Check was done for either me or my son.
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AAA
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Re: How bad are credit checks?

Post by AAA »

hudson wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:44 pm How big of a deal is it when a dealer checks your credit? It doesn't dip down that bad does it?...Bottom Line, Are credit scores over-rated?
It's not just a matter of credit score to some people. Why give your Soc. Sec. number to someone and let them look into your business for no reason?
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imbogled
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by imbogled »

RetiredCSProf wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:47 pm I recently purchased a new car. The manufacturer was offering a $2,000 rebate on the condition that I lease the car or finance a loan through their financial services.

One dealership told me that I would receive the rebate if I borrowed at least $10,000 on the vehicle and made at least 4 payments (that is, keep the loan for least 5 months). I purchased through a different dealership who told me, as I was signing the papers, that I would need to make at least 5 payments (keep the loan at least 6 months).

I was planning to take a loan, anyway. What surprised me is that they did two credit checks: (1) the dealership and (2) the manufacturer's financial services. The hard inquiries dropped my credit score by 5 points.

Read the loan contract for details on early payoff. It is a tactic used by some dealers to tell you that you have to make so many payments before making an early payoff. Often times you can payoff the loan just after the first payment. By making a quick/early payment the dealer does not receive its incentive from the finance company. That's why they "advise" you to extend it a few months.
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Starfox
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by Starfox »

We always pay cash, no credit check or other government forms. They electronically scan our personal check (no special certified or cashiers, etc) and appears the scanning of the check is electronically sent and confirmed by a third party or something. Largest check was $131k for a loaded s-class and took a few seconds at the finance desk and was done.
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cenvin
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by cenvin »

Starfox wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:52 pm They electronically scan our personal check (no special certified or cashiers, etc) and appears the scanning of the check is electronically sent and confirmed by a third party or something.
So the funds are verified right away? I've heard about this but I don't know what the term for it is. I think it's like they convert your personal check into an electronic ACH transaction. Anyone know more about this? This is what I would prefer to do if the dealer is too far from my bank to quickly get a cashiers check.
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by Starfox »

cenvin wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:25 pm
Starfox wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:52 pm They electronically scan our personal check (no special certified or cashiers, etc) and appears the scanning of the check is electronically sent and confirmed by a third party or something.
So the funds are verified right away? I've heard about this but I don't know what the term for it is. I think it's like they convert your personal check into an electronic ACH transaction. Anyone know more about this? This is what I would prefer to do if the dealer is too far from my bank to quickly get a cashiers check.
Yes after handing the check over, she said she would scan it in and it would take a minute or two for the funds to be verified and it was very much like ACH. If I remember what other term she used I’ll let you know.
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by Nutmeg »

In my experience, the question of “letting” the dealership run credit wasn’t an issue.

I bought a car for cash several years ago. The salesman said that using a personal check would be fine. Doing a credit check never came up until I was signing the papers. I told the salesman that I didn’t want my credit to be checked, I didn’t sign the paper he wanted me to sign permitting a credit check, and I didn’t provide my social security number. My credit score was in the 800s, but I didn’t want the dealership to check my credit.

Several weeks later, I received a letter from the dealership stating that their check of my credit meant that I was not qualified for a car loan (which would have been ridiculous if true.) I called to find out what that was about, as I hadn’t applied for a loan and hadn’t authorized my credit to be checked. The dealership rep stated, “Well, of course we checked your credit. We weren’t going to let you drive off with a car merely by giving us a personal check for payment.”

Treating customers like that is why people hate buying cars from dealerships. That is one reason why I have kept my cars an average of 14 years.
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cenvin
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by cenvin »

Starfox wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:37 pmYes after handing the check over, she said she would scan it in and it would take a minute or two for the funds to be verified and it was very much like ACH. If I remember what other term she used I’ll let you know.
Thanks. I may ask my bank about this as well. Perhaps they know.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by BrandonBogle »

cenvin wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:49 pm
Starfox wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:37 pmYes after handing the check over, she said she would scan it in and it would take a minute or two for the funds to be verified and it was very much like ACH. If I remember what other term she used I’ll let you know.
Thanks. I may ask my bank about this as well. Perhaps they know.
Sounds like Starfox might be talking about eChecks.
squirm
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by squirm »

suemarkp wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:12 pm How many trips do you want to make to the dealer? If they run your credit, you can leave with the car that visit even if you aren't financing. I've paid "cash" (cashiers check or personal check actually) for my last 3 cars. All let me leave that day once they knew my credit was good. I just had to get them a check within 3 business days.

I don't care about a credit inquiry. If my score drops from 820 to 815 for a month, it isn't a big deal to me.
Yeah, I always pay with cash.

I'm not sure what the big deal is having them run a credit check.
oldfort
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by oldfort »

cenvin wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:49 pm
Starfox wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:37 pmYes after handing the check over, she said she would scan it in and it would take a minute or two for the funds to be verified and it was very much like ACH. If I remember what other term she used I’ll let you know.
Thanks. I may ask my bank about this as well. Perhaps they know.
Personal checks, whether electronic or paper, don't transfer funds in a minute or two. They take a couple of days to clear.
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by Ferdinand2014 »

cenvin wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:43 pm I'm planning on buying a new car with cash (cashier's check).

I'm not interested in dealership financing, or any of the high margin junk they try to sell you in F&I (such as "protection packages", extended warranties, VIN etching, etc) and I don't have a trade-in.

I'm also not terribly keen on playing the game of hiding the fact that I'm paying cash until the last minute so as to try to negotiate a better deal by giving them (false) hope that they might profit from all of the above (which I plan to decline).

Yes, amazingly, I “just want to buy a car”. But I fully realize that mission is 100% incompatible with their business model.

Some dealerships try to say they need a credit app (and my SSN) in order to satisfy “federal requirements/Patriot Act” (to my knowledge not true because there are no SSN's on OFAC SDN list) or for vehicle registration purposes (also not true to my knowledge because the DMV new vehicle registration form only requires my driver's license number, not my SSN), or because I'm paying “cash” and they must file IRS form 8300 (also not true to my knowledge because a cashiers check over $10k is not considered cash by the IRS, hence no need to file form 8300).

Those kinds of shenanigans aside, they can legitimately argue they need a backup form of funding in case my check bounces. But I'm paying with a cashiers check and I'm willing to let them hold the car at the dealership until they verify that the funds are in their account.

To my knowledge, all that is really required to buy a car is:
1. My full name and address
2. My driver's license
3. My proof of auto insurance
4. My payment for the car

I'm just trying to decide if being “cooperative” and letting the dealership run my credit anyway will make the process less stressful for me than fighting with them over this matter.
I am currently going through the process of purchasing a vehicle with cash. I had already test driven the vehicle in question at a dealership previously. I have done the process entirely by e-mail and text otherwise. They take a personal check and did not ask for my credit. They did say they prefer I pay by check and not use a credit card (to get miles) because of fees on their end for a large purchase.
“You only find out who is swimming naked when the tide goes out.“ — Warren Buffett
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cenvin
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by cenvin »

Nutmeg wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:48 pm In my experience, the question of “letting” the dealership run credit wasn’t an issue.

I bought a car for cash several years ago. The salesman said that using a personal check would be fine. Doing a credit check never came up until I was signing the papers. I told the salesman that I didn’t want my credit to be checked, I didn’t sign the paper he wanted me to sign permitting a credit check, and I didn’t provide my social security number. My credit score was in the 800s, but I didn’t want the dealership to check my credit.

Several weeks later, I received a letter from the dealership stating that their check of my credit meant that I was not qualified for a car loan (which would have been ridiculous if true.) I called to find out what that was about, as I hadn’t applied for a loan and hadn’t authorized my credit to be checked. The dealership rep stated, “Well, of course we checked your credit. We weren’t going to let you drive off with a car merely by giving us a personal check for payment.”

Treating customers like that is why people hate buying cars from dealerships. That is one reason why I have kept my cars an average of 14 years.
Dealerships don't even consider consumers to be people, instead they are "leads". I think you may have received an "adverse action notice" which apparently is something required by law now, but I'm not sure. There are companies which provide the software platforms dealerships use for credit and ID verification, etc. One such company has a web page pertaining to the "adverse action notice":
What is Adverse Action?

In the past, dealers relied on their lender partners to provide any legally required notices to the customer when credit was denied or credit terms modified. However, under the new FCRA and ECOA regulations, dealerships are considered creditors and are now responsible for providing Adverse Action notices to customers that were not offered financing or consumers who were offered alternative financing, but denied the offer.
https://www.700credit.com/compliance-so ... se-action/
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by tomd37 »

The last four cars I purchased (2001 Lexus ES300, 2010 Toyota Venza, 2018 Lexus ES350, and 2019 Subaru Outback were purchased using cash (a personal check for three and a cashier check for the 2018 Lexus. The 2018 Lexus was purchased online from a neighboring state (best deal) and delivered to my home 90 miles from the dealership. None of the dealers had my SSN at any time if I remember correctly.
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by TravelGeek »

squirm wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:05 pm
Yeah, I always pay with cash.

I'm not sure what the big deal is having them run a credit check.
If there is no reason to share my credit info,why would I? If they asked for your medical records, would you agree to that? It’s just none of their business... and lying about the reasons to get me to agree doesn’t make it any better.
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by Gnirk »

My DH always pays by personal check for his cars, and always has a trade-in. Every time, the dealership insists they have to check his credit. However, I froze our credit several years ago, and he tried three times to unfreeze it while at the dealership, but it didn't work. They still accepted his personal check for the car, and he drove it home.
anoop
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by anoop »

When I was about to buy my current car (Acura RDX), I had specifically asked the sales person on 2 separate occasions if I could buy the car without providing an SSN if I paid with check. They said yes both times. After I went in, they did the "bait and switch" and the sales manager came out and refused to sell the car first telling me "it's required by law". When I asked for details about said law, he asked me to do a wire transfer if I didn't want to give the SSN. Since it was a bank holiday that day and I was in a somewhat desperate situation, I ended up giving them my SSN, even though I didn't need credit from them. Now 2 years later, the credit pull still shows on my credit report.

Prior to this, I bought 3 3-series sedans in 2003, 2013, and 2014, all without an SSN.
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by anoop »

hightower wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:03 pm Second, why are you so worried about them checking your credit in the first place? One credit pull will have zero effect on your score. And unless you're about to apply for a mortgage or something, who cares?
I don't like giving out my SSN because of all the hacking incidents. Many information hacks are not even detected. The more places that have your info, the greater the chance it will be hacked and then misused.

The CEO of Lifelock used to publish his SSN proudly. There's this interesting article:
https://www.wired.com/2010/05/lifelock-identity-theft/
hudson
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by hudson »

Starfox wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:52 pm They electronically scan our personal check (no special certified or cashiers, etc) and appears the scanning of the check is electronically sent and confirmed by a third party or something.
I bought a vehicle on the last day of 2012. (Credit frozen...score good) The finance guy scanned my check and said that he couldn't take my check. He asked if my wife had her checkbook. Her credit score was good...credit not frozen.) She did; her check worked. I asked him why. He said that he didn't know. I assume that they checked my credit. I don't remember if I gave them my social. I know that my wife didn't give hers.

I assume that the dealership used some kind of check approval service....that included a credit check. I bought another vehicle from the same dealership in 2018. Before driving to pick up the vehicle, I called and talked to the new finance guy about paying by check. He couldn't explain the 2012 problem. He said that he would take my check....and later did so.

He later did a long and well rehearsed sales pitch for an extended warranty. I calmly told him at every turn that I didn't buy extended warranties. He brought in his supervisor who cut the price even more. I told him no, no, and no. In the future, I will not drive to pick up a new vehicle until I have a promise that the closing will be short and sweet. I will probably request a remote closing with the vehicle delivered.
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by madbrain »

stoptothink wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:15 pm There are a million things to be annoyed about with the current car-buying paradigm, IMO this isn't one of them. I walked in with a check to purchase our last car in cash, they immediately asked to run my credit. Big deal.
This is very much one of them. My last TWO car purchases, the dealers ran my credit even though I was pre-approved with my credit union. Two separate dealers ended up selling the loan to a different lender, at less favorable terms. The credit union rate included a 0.50% rate discount for being a member, but not with the other lenders. I made both dealers undo the loans. This should be illegal, IMO.

The issue is the dealers get kickbacks from certain lenders for selling loans to them. If you pay off the loan early (within 3 months), they don't get the kickback.
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djpeteski
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by djpeteski »

cenvin wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:50 pm Glad someone brought this up. I froze my credit reports after the Equifax breach. So, yeah, I'd need to unfreeze (thaw? :D ) and that's another inconvenience.

I prefer the least complex transaction possible. That's why I prefer no trade-in, no financing, no dealer add-ons, and no leases. Which is in exact opposition to what the dealership wants. They are seeking the most complex and time consuming transaction possible. It gives them more opportunities for wearing you down and manipulation and I want to deny them that. I don't want to play games, I just want to buy a car.
IMHO you are being very wise. Just buy the damn car. BTW i'd love to hear the update when and if you close this transaction. Using the credit freeze as an option would be a massive help (I think).

"Sure I will be willing to fill out a credit app but will need $1000 up front to take care of the fees and labor to unfreeze my credit, and will require that payment if I buy a car or not".

Some efforts of a private conversation with the salesmen might help. "Look this can be a really quick and easy transaction if you work with me. You won't make a ton of money, but you have the choice between zero and sale with little or no effort". The salesmen do not received pay off of the things sold in the finance office.

You could also "fill out" the credit app, by simply writing "NO" in big letters on the form.

Anyway good luck!
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by Clever_Username »

JBTX wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:42 pm In 2013 I bought a new car, with several factory incentives. One was a$1500 credit for financing. So I financed the minimum of about $7500, got the credit, and paid the loan off in about 3 months. If they want to give you money to take their money, by all means keep an open mind.
Interesting. My recent purchase had a $1500 incentive for paying cash, which was my plan from the beginning.

For TA, they did run my credit, despite knowing up front I'd be paying cash. Not sure the purpose, they gave some explanation, and I don't really care all that much (probably less than I should).
"What was true then is true now. Have a plan. Stick to it." -- XXXX, _Layer Cake_ | | I survived my first downturn and all I got was this signature line.
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by hudson »

Clever_Username wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:05 pm
For TA, they did run my credit, despite knowing up front I'd be paying cash. Not sure the purpose, they gave some explanation, and I don't really care all that much (probably less than I should).
If your credit is frozen, how bad is it to give out your social security number...to a supposedly honest business?
I gave mine today on some kind of medical insurance form. If the lady that I gave it to was an identity thief, what could she gain?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by BrandonBogle »

hudson wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:11 pm If your credit is frozen, how bad is it to give out your social security number...to a supposedly honest business?
I gave mine today on some kind of medical insurance form. If the lady that I gave it to was an identity thief, what could she gain?
Emphasis mine. When was the last time you considered a dealership engaging in such business practices as “supposedly honest”?

Meanwhile, in the medical field, I never provide my SSN. Never been a problem. They cannot legally force you to give your SSN as a condition of receiving treatment and the SSN is not needed for billing. All it does is make it easier for the collections team if you are delinquent in paying the bill, and that team can find you even if they don’t have your SSN.
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by hudson »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:16 pm
hudson wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:11 pm If your credit is frozen, how bad is it to give out your social security number...to a supposedly honest business?
I gave mine today on some kind of medical insurance form. If the lady that I gave it to was an identity thief, what could she gain?
Emphasis mine. When was the last time you considered a dealership engaging in such business practices as “supposedly honest”?

Meanwhile, in the medical field, I never provide my SSN. Never been a problem. They cannot legally force you to give your SSN as a condition of receiving treatment and the SSN is not needed for billing. All it does is make it easier for the collections team if you are delinquent in paying the bill, and that team can find you even if they don’t have your SSN.
Good point. I think the business is OK. It's a crooked employee that would likely be the risk.
anoop
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by anoop »

hudson wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:11 pm
Clever_Username wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:05 pm
For TA, they did run my credit, despite knowing up front I'd be paying cash. Not sure the purpose, they gave some explanation, and I don't really care all that much (probably less than I should).
If your credit is frozen, how bad is it to give out your social security number...to a supposedly honest business?
I gave mine today on some kind of medical insurance form. If the lady that I gave it to was an identity thief, what could she gain?
I am surprised at how people, even financially savvy and educated people, seem to not care to learn about the importance of privacy. (And I don't just mean bogleheads.) But I take it upon myself to try to educate them.

https://www.csoonline.com/article/32232 ... overs.html
"What’s more likely is that stolen information will be used to take over existing accounts, such as banking, brokerage, phone service, and retirement accounts."

https://money.cnn.com/2017/09/11/techno ... index.html
"If the stolen information from Equifax gets into the wrong hands, experts say data thieves can open bank accounts, lines of credit, new credit cards and even drivers' licenses in your name. They can saddle you with speeding tickets, steal your tax refund, swipe your Social Security check and prevent you from getting prescription drugs."
Last edited by anoop on Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
hudson
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by hudson »

duplicate
Last edited by hudson on Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
hudson
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by hudson »

anoop wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:23 pm
hudson wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:11 pm
Clever_Username wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:05 pm
For TA, they did run my credit, despite knowing up front I'd be paying cash. Not sure the purpose, they gave some explanation, and I don't really care all that much (probably less than I should).
If your credit is frozen, how bad is it to give out your social security number...to a supposedly honest business?
I gave mine today on some kind of medical insurance form. If the lady that I gave it to was an identity thief, what could she gain?
I am surprised at how people, even financially savvy and educated people, seem to not care to learn about the importance of privacy. (And I don't just mean bogleheads.). But I take it upon myself to try to educate them.

https://www.csoonline.com/article/32232 ... overs.html
"What’s more likely is that stolen information will be used to take over existing accounts, such as banking, brokerage, phone service, and retirement accounts."

https://money.cnn.com/2017/09/11/techno ... index.html
"If the stolen information from Equifax gets into the wrong hands, experts say data thieves can open bank accounts, lines of credit, new credit cards and even drivers' licenses in your name. They can saddle you with speeding tickets, steal your tax refund, swipe your Social Security check and prevent you from getting prescription drugs."
Thanks anoop! Useful information! I will start refusing to give out my social.
RetiredCSProf
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by RetiredCSProf »

imbogled wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:43 pm
RetiredCSProf wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:47 pm I recently purchased a new car. The manufacturer was offering a $2,000 rebate on the condition that I lease the car or finance a loan through their financial services.
...

Read the loan contract for details on early payoff. It is a tactic used by some dealers to tell you that you have to make so many payments before making an early payoff. Often times you can payoff the loan just after the first payment. By making a quick/early payment the dealer does not receive its incentive from the finance company. That's why they "advise" you to extend it a few months.
That's correct. There is nothing in the loan contract that I signed regarding a penalty for an early payoff. A penalty is prohibited in CA, where I reside. The only consequence is that the dealer loses their incentive from the finance company. When I questioned the dealership about their request, they admitted that there was nothing in the contract about a penalty for an early payoff. They refused to put anything in writing and refused to nail down a specific timeframe.
Lynette
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by Lynette »

I agree on the price with the dealer first. Then we discuss the method of payment. The dealer openly told me that they would get more if I financed initially. It was a bit of a pain as I had to go home and get my credit unfrozen. However, as they treated me well, I thought I would oblige them by doing the financing initially. It took me about half an hour to go home, unfreeze my credit. By that time the finance manager had checked my credit score. I don't care what my credit score is as I do intend to pay cash for everything.
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AAA
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by AAA »

hudson wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:11 pmIf your credit is frozen, how bad is it to give out your social security number...to a supposedly honest business?
The business may be honest but how secure is their computer system? Major corporations with large IT departments get hacked so I wouldn't have much confidence in a car dealership's security. As for freezing your credit - it's definitely something to do but I don't think that guards you against any and all possible consequences of someone using your information.
lomarica01
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by lomarica01 »

No. my last three cars were all by personal check carmax confirms you have the amount by looking at your bank statement online.

the other two times were a pain. I told them I would pay by check before hand and they said ok, then at the dealer they asked to run a credit check but since ours is frozen could not do it could not get the car that day anyway long story. the last dealer took our check based on the atm stub from that morning showing we had the cash but even thought we agreed to pay by check before hand the guy had to get managers approve al etc..

what does not make sense is someone could have good credit but not the cash to pay for a car, or could have bad credit or no credit and have the cash to pay for the car.

carmax had the best system imho

good luck
Kruser64
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by Kruser64 »

lomarica01 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:45 am carmax had the best system imho
+1 on carmax. I did not try to take the car same day, I just told them to call me when they confirmed they had the funds. I paid via cashier's check. They called I think it was 2 days later. No SSN, no credit check, no drama of any kind. The whole carmax process start to finish was great.
anoop
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by anoop »

Kruser64 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:20 pm
lomarica01 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:45 am carmax had the best system imho
+1 on carmax. I did not try to take the car same day, I just told them to call me when they confirmed they had the funds. I paid via cashier's check. They called I think it was 2 days later. No SSN, no credit check, no drama of any kind. The whole carmax process start to finish was great.
I sold my car to carmax. As painless as can be and about 10% more than the dealer was offering for trade-in. Best way to sell a car IMO.
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cenvin
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by cenvin »

Thanks for all the responses and real-life experiences in connection with this topic. I'm a noobie to this forum, and already convinced this is one of the brighter places on the internet. :happy

I found some info on the method of converting a paper check into an ACH transaction on the OCC (Office of the Comptroller of the Currency) website. Apparently this a faster processing method, but not necessarily instantaneous. They are basically just calling it an EFT debit. They don't specify exactly how fast, but just say “more quickly” than the traditional method of depositing a paper check.
Under an Electronic Fund Transfer (EFT) process, a merchant or other party (such as a utility company) can change your paper check into an electronic "debit" that is paid from your checking account. The debit may be paid from your account much more quickly than if a check had been processed in the conventional way.
https://www.occ.gov/topics/consumers-an ... ounts.html

Apparently even a cashiers check can take a day or two to clear. Probably the only way to get the money to the dealership faster would be a wire, which I don't think I'm going to do.

Also, in addition to my previous links regarding anti-money laundering laws, I found a pretty good reference-guide on the IRS website which explains what is and isn't considered “cash” for the purposes of Form 8300 and includes several car dealership type examples:

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-bu ... ence-guide

I think while there is probably no reason why a dealership absolutely must run my credit if I'm paying “cash” (personal check or cashiers check), I'm still on the fence about the issue of whether or not to cooperate with a request for me to fill out a credit application.

As several replies have pointed out, for some people, including myself, there is a feeling (for sound reasons) that if the dealership doesn't absolutely need access to this personal information, that it is simply none of their business.

That said, I think what it comes down to for me is whether I place a higher value on being perceived as cooperative (and unfreezing my credit which I froze after the Equifax data breach) or keeping my information private (and avoiding the hard pull on my report).
hightower
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by hightower »

anoop wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:11 am
hightower wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:03 pm Second, why are you so worried about them checking your credit in the first place? One credit pull will have zero effect on your score. And unless you're about to apply for a mortgage or something, who cares?
I don't like giving out my SSN because of all the hacking incidents. Many information hacks are not even detected. The more places that have your info, the greater the chance it will be hacked and then misused.

The CEO of Lifelock used to publish his SSN proudly. There's this interesting article:
https://www.wired.com/2010/05/lifelock-identity-theft/
I hear you, but it's my belief that pretty much all of us have already been exposed online in one way or another, so I don't worry too much about that. I keep my credit reports frozen at all times except when applying for credit and I monitor my stuff with multiple credit monitoring programs, so I get multiple emails anytime anything changes on my report.
anoop
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by anoop »

hightower wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:12 pm
anoop wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:11 am
hightower wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:03 pm Second, why are you so worried about them checking your credit in the first place? One credit pull will have zero effect on your score. And unless you're about to apply for a mortgage or something, who cares?
I don't like giving out my SSN because of all the hacking incidents. Many information hacks are not even detected. The more places that have your info, the greater the chance it will be hacked and then misused.

The CEO of Lifelock used to publish his SSN proudly. There's this interesting article:
https://www.wired.com/2010/05/lifelock-identity-theft/
I hear you, but it's my belief that pretty much all of us have already been exposed online in one way or another, so I don't worry too much about that. I keep my credit reports frozen at all times except when applying for credit and I monitor my stuff with multiple credit monitoring programs, so I get multiple emails anytime anything changes on my report.
Identity theft can be used to cause much more damage than things that are monitored by credit bureaus.
viewtopic.php?p=5415209#p5410883

Yes, we have all been exposed, but that doesn't mean we let our guard down. This is about probabilities. When something bad happens, it takes tremendous time and energy to fix it. Why not try and prevent it from happening as best as we can?
hightower
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by hightower »

Oh I agree that there are lots of ways crooks can use your information. I just don't know what else anyone can do to protect yourself other than monitor all of your accounts and such. But, it's up to you how careful you are from this point forward. I just don't know if it's going to do any good, since the cat is already out of the bag.
Normchad
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by Normchad »

My SS number is everywhere. Up until about 20 years ago, it was also my bank account number and my drivers license number. So it’s everywhere.

Anybody else remember when it was common to have it permanently printed on your checks? Along with your phone number, etc?

Has anybody tried to actually pay with cash? As in a big stack of benjamins. I wonder how they would handle that.
KyleAAA
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by KyleAAA »

If you're willing to let them hold the car until it clears, they shouldn't need to run your credit. You are correct that OFAC does not require a ssn.
ChooseYourCharacter
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by ChooseYourCharacter »

Looks like the credit check in compliance with the patriot act is a big scam

https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card ... -car-loan/
JackoC
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by JackoC »

BrandonBogle wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:15 pm 1. Essentially I’m just echoing other commenters. My goal when buying a car is to get the car with nearly the least I need pay (I say nearly because the effort for maybe another $100 off isn’t worth my time). As such, like eye.surgeon, I tell them I might finance if the numbers work in my favor, but let’s see what those numbers are.

2. I just think the mentality of being a “difficult” customer doesn’t help with the goal of getting a good deal. If that isn’t your goal, then by all means freeze your credit, say no, and tell them if they keep pushing you’ll just leave. But I find I get better deals with honey instead of vinegar.
1. As somebody else linked, there's the U-tube guy ex car salesman saying 'never tell them you are paying cash!'. I haven't always followed this strictly. As the U-tube guy says the reason making money on add ons and financing is more important is that car prices have become more transparent. Which means even the person not pretending they might finance still knows what they should pay pretty much. And my band of indifference is more than $100, though not $1000's of course. I think I've gotten decent deals in a mixture of situations as to whether the dealer thought there was any chance to make money on financing. I've also found add on pitches to be even less an issue, just 'here's several $1k more you can spend', 'no', 'OK' has been my general experience. But there's always more to learn on new car buying. Dealers are honing their new car selling skills every working day.

2. I agree. Also, one might have a limited tolerance for confrontation so use that up arguing about something less important than laser focus on out the door price.

I don't clearly recall which if any of last several new car dealers (4 in the last 15 yrs) ran a credit check. I would have thought it a distraction to make an issue of it, although I realize it's not absolute zero cost/risk.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by BrandonBogle »

Normchad wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:23 pm Has anybody tried to actually pay with cash? As in a big stack of benjamins. I wonder how they would handle that.
They asked us to please come back with a certified check and not make them fill out all the paperwork for taking actual cash from us.
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cenvin
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by cenvin »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:37 pm
Normchad wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:23 pm Has anybody tried to actually pay with cash? As in a big stack of benjamins. I wonder how they would handle that.
They asked us to please come back with a certified check and not make them fill out all the paperwork for taking actual cash from us.
Paying in currency triggers an IRS 8300 form filing and you'd need to give them your SSN because it's required for that form. And with your SSN they could secretly hard pull your credit if they wanted to, though I think that is illegal. (EDIT: though I suppose a credit freeze would prevent this) Personally, I'm more concerned about the hard pull than the SSN disclosure itself, so paying in currency isn't an option I'd personally want.
Last edited by cenvin on Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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cenvin
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by cenvin »

JackoC wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:31 pm one might have a limited tolerance for confrontation
This sounds like me. :)
Though it's not the confrontation itself which scares me; I think I could survive that. It's what I think they might do in revenge for my being uncooperative. Like slash the CV boots on the car I'm buying or something. Honestly that's how much I distrust car dealerships. :D
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by BrandonBogle »

cenvin wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:43 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:37 pm
Normchad wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:23 pm Has anybody tried to actually pay with cash? As in a big stack of benjamins. I wonder how they would handle that.
They asked us to please come back with a certified check and not make them fill out all the paperwork for taking actual cash from us.
Paying in currency triggers an IRS 8300 form filing and you'd need to give them your SSN because it's required for that form. And with your SSN they could secretly hard pull your credit if they wanted to, though I think that is illegal. Personally, I'm more concerned about the hard pull than the SSN disclosure itself so paying in currency isn't an option I'd personally want.
I understand and agree. I'm one who doesn't disclose my SSN to them. The example I provided was actually my girlfriend buying a car. She didn't have a concern about that, but thought it was a negotiating tactic to drop a stack of cash to make a deal happen. Oh how many things wrong with that relationship. Glad it is behind me!
inbox788
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Re: Paying cash for a new car... should I let them run my credit?

Post by inbox788 »

beyou wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:27 pmJust say no.
+1

No good reason for them to do it. You get the credit hit and they get the kickbacks, while the credit agency gets more of your information. While the credit record sometimes helps you (not in this case), the information they collect on you isn't yours, but the product that gets sold.

They pulled this BS on me one time when I used a bank check, but I told them no, so they wouldn't release the car until the check cleared. They thought that would get me to fill out the credit application, but I didn't have a place to park an extra car at the time, and I wasn't eager to take it off the lot immediately anyway. A few days later, I was able to sell my old car and went to pick up the new one at my convenience. The salesman couldn't be happier to see it leave the lot. I think he was getting pressure from his manager.
Last edited by inbox788 on Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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