Replacing appliances--buy dumb

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dual
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Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by dual »

Interesting article by Bob Zimmerman of BehindTheBlack about experience replacing an old washing machine with a new one:
https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-b ... -buy-dumb/
Two years ago our old Kenmore Series 80 washing machine broke down. The repair guy said it would be so expensive to fix that he recommended it was time to buy something new.

So off we went to Sears, where we ended up buying one of today’s modern “smart” machines for a mere $923.
...
The problem was the machine never got any of our clothes clean. It also refused to provide enough water.
...
(We) found a local used appliance store in Tucson, Rosano’s & Sons Appliances. Not only did they have a comparable washing machine to our old Kenmore, they gave their workmanship a six month warranty, and would buy our “smart” machine for $40. They wouldn’t pay more, because they explained that no one really wanted these new “smart” machines. The demand was for the older ones, the ones that while “dumb” worked.

And yes, they were right. Since getting the “new” used machine installed it’s like the good ol’ days, when washing machines were washing machines, and the dirty clothes you put in came out clean. Wonder of wonders!

The moral to this story is this: Buy dumb!
Last edited by dual on Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chuck107
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by Chuck107 »

.....
Last edited by Chuck107 on Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Alas, I find moderation of this forum too restrictive for my tastes, farewell.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by TheTimeLord »

We absolutely LOVE our new smart washer. A first I couldn't believe the water level would work but it does. It is still a top load mode but since it doesn't have an agitator it holds a ton of clothes. You can either have it auto sense the water level or tell it fill the tub if you wanted. I get kudos from my wife on this purchase. As I remember it was under $800 at Best Buy.
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Lalamimi
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by Lalamimi »

We were married in 1975 and saved change in a glass block. When we moved into a rent house from an apartment, we dumped the change and bought a beautiful avocado green Maytag from GEMCO (1976 ish). Replaced it later but kept it in the garage. Ended up hooking it up in late 90s in our garage on our 10 acre country place. Worked great. The top looked like new. Unlike my now 12 yr old Samsung Smart washer that is rusty on the top. Simple is best.
Normchad
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by Normchad »

There is a nearly-cult like following in the internet for Speed Queen washers and dryers. Evangelists laud then for their basic simplicity and reputation for indestructability.
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tainted-meat
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by tainted-meat »

I agree with this - I did the same with a dryer.

Also, I had a self propelled lawn mower that was a pain to start and when started could hardly mow through thick grass. I bought a $130 'basic' lawn mower and that thing runs through everything. 4th season using it on a large lawn and still going strong.
Kompass
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by Kompass »

Normchad wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:01 pm There is a nearly-cult like following in the internet for Speed Queen washers and dryers. Evangelists laud then for their basic simplicity and reputation for indestructability.
+1 After my experience with a smart washer, thankfully in a rental, I bought Speed Queen and now sing with the choir. :beer
The large print giveth and the fine print taketh away.
momm77
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by momm77 »

Fun post, thanks. I had to replace my 16 year old washing machine several years ago. I had a heck of a time getting a new one because I didn't want a front load or one that weighed my clothes or even one without an agitator. I wanted a simple machine that was less than $500. I did get one and it has an agitator and I'm okay with it generally except it takes much longer to wash a load of clothes and I don't like the lid lock. The salesperson told me that I had better get it because i was not going to like the newest ones coming out. I think I will rethink spending more and maybe even spring for that Speed Queen next time. I have had one on my Amazon wish list for several years. And now whether to repair the 16 year old refrigerator that is on the way out....
livesoft
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by livesoft »

I posted this before: We recently repaired our 26-year-old Kenmore washer. The appliance parts place only had curbside service, but we got the necessary part and the guy that brought it out to our car explicitly said, "You gotta keep that washer going as long as you can because it is great. All the new washers are junk. You are lucky."
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ballons
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by ballons »

They wanted "dumb" but skipped of all of them and bought an expensive LG. They sold it for $40. :oops:

This guy ended up paying $1168 for a used washing machine.
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fortfun
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by fortfun »

Got my last washer and dryer off of facebook market place. Maytags from the 80s. I made a few little repairs and they run like a champ. I'm not really so concerned about the "better cleaning part," I'm more concerned with the reliability and ability to repair them myself. These older machines lack a computer control board and that's really the secret to getting a machine that will last and that YOU can repair.

If I ever buy a new machine, it will be a Speedqueen but they are expensive!
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dual
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by dual »

ballons wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:00 pm They wanted "dumb" but skipped of all of them and bought an expensive LG. They sold it for $40. :oops:

This guy ended up paying $1168 for a used washing machine.
Try reading the initial post again. You have it wrong.
wallygator
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by wallygator »

Normchad wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:01 pm There is a nearly-cult like following in the internet for Speed Queen washers and dryers. Evangelists laud then for their basic simplicity and reputation for indestructability.
BINGO we have a winner. LOVE Speed Queen. They are basically commercial machines.
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tennisplyr
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by tennisplyr »

We love our new LG washer and dryer, quieter with much bigger capacity. You can make the "good ole days" argument for just about anything.
Those who move forward with a happy spirit will find that things always work out.
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by bob60014 »

I used to think the same about older machines cleaning better and was concerned when we purchased our "smart machines. But we took the time to read the manual and learned what settings to use, what needed to be tweaked and figured it out. All's good now, clothes seem to last longer, lower utility bills and the machines even meet Mrs Cleans (DW) high standards!
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bottlecap
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by bottlecap »

We have the "modern" front load washer and dryer. Not as good as the older styles in some respects, but they get the clothes clean. I simply can’t relate.

I think they got taken to the “cleaners” selling a $900 washer for $40. No way I would admit that in public.

JT
daheld
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by daheld »

I have maybe posted more on BH about our 25 year old Amana washer and dryer set than anything else. We inherited them when my then girlfriend (now wife) bought a home in 2014. In the six years we've had them, I had to replace a water intake valve on the washing machine and that's it. It took about 15 minutes to change. All the controls are knobs and they've worked flawlessly. We bought a new home in 2018 and the first big change we made was to move the washer/dryer upstairs and convert an office into an office/laundry. They don't look sleek and they aren't "smart", but these things are absolute tanks.

Bonus: when we bought the new home in 2018, the previous owner left a similarly aged Maytag set in the basement. They were hooked up and we actually used them until we created the upstairs laundry. So we have two old sets, one of which is sitting in the basement on deck in case anything happens with the ones in use.

I figure we're set on laundry appliances for the next 50 years or so.
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by lazydavid »

dual wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:18 am
ballons wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:00 pm They wanted "dumb" but skipped of all of them and bought an expensive LG. They sold it for $40. :oops:

This guy ended up paying $1168 for a used washing machine.
Try reading the initial post again. You have it wrong.
I agree with @ballons. He paid $923 for the LG, $285 for the used one, and got $40 back for the LG. In my world, 923 + 285 - 40 = 1168

Started with broken old washing machine, ended with different working old washing machine, $1,168 out of pocket.
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

lazydavid wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:55 am
dual wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:18 am
ballons wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:00 pm They wanted "dumb" but skipped of all of them and bought an expensive LG. They sold it for $40. :oops:

This guy ended up paying $1168 for a used washing machine.
Try reading the initial post again. You have it wrong.
I agree with @ballons. He paid $923 for the LG, $285 for the used one, and got $40 back for the LG. In my world, 923 + 285 - 40 = 1168

Started with broken old washing machine, ended with different working old washing machine, $1,168 out of pocket.
Yep!

From the link, under the pictures:

The “smart” machine that we
paid $923 for and sold for $40.


AND

The used “dumb” machine we
paid $285 for that actually
cleans our clothes.


The dumbness wasn't the appliances.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go. " -Mark Twain
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obafgkm
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by obafgkm »

Has there ever been a time when somebody said their newly-purchased appliance was better than anything they had before? It rarely seems that way around these parts.

"The lawnmower I'll buy in 2035 is worse than the one I just bought in 2020." :P
tibbitts
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by tibbitts »

wallygator wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:32 am
Normchad wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:01 pm There is a nearly-cult like following in the internet for Speed Queen washers and dryers. Evangelists laud then for their basic simplicity and reputation for indestructability.
BINGO we have a winner. LOVE Speed Queen. They are basically commercial machines.
I use a 2yr old SQ. The controls use a touch panel and it uses a card reader for payment - not a dial to be found. So I'm not seeing the simplicity. I don't understand the rinse cycle - it seems to work, I think, but doesn't rinse in the traditional sense. So I don't know that it's possible to add any chemicals in the rinse as I think some people used to do (not me so I'm not an expert.)
123
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by 123 »

And it's worse with TVs. If you buy a "smart" TV (the only kind available now) you may get 2 - 3 years of "smart" life out of it before you need to acquire another smart device (Roku, Apple TV, Amazon Fire, etc) to bypass it's brain and add features or apps that aren't accommodated by that original brain.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by stoptothink »

123 wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:29 pm And it's worse with TVs. If you buy a "smart" TV (the only kind available now) you may get 2 - 3 years of "smart" life out of it before you need to acquire another smart device (Roku, Apple TV, Amazon Fire, etc) to bypass it's brain and add features or apps that aren't accommodated by that original brain.
My Roku TV is going on 5yrs without a hiccup.
quantAndHold
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by quantAndHold »

obafgkm wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:06 pm Has there ever been a time when somebody said their newly-purchased appliance was better than anything they had before? It rarely seems that way around these parts.
I’ll say it. The LG washer and dryer we bought 2 years ago at Costco are light years ahead of the 20 year old ones they replaced.

But don’t get me started on the Samsung fridge. That‘s a completely different story.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by LilyFleur »

quantAndHold wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:32 pm
obafgkm wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:06 pm Has there ever been a time when somebody said their newly-purchased appliance was better than anything they had before? It rarely seems that way around these parts.
I’ll say it. The LG washer and dryer we bought 2 years ago at Costco are light years ahead of the 20 year old ones they replaced.

But don’t get me started on the Samsung fridge. That‘s a completely different story.
When I moved into my condo, I bought the Kenmore washer and dryer from the previous owner. The agitator was wearing out my clothes, and I wear clothes for decades. My Whirlpool washer and dryer (now four years old and not terribly smart or fancy) from a good Home Depot sale have been much better for my clothing. I looked at the Speed Queen but couldn't go for the much higher cost. My mom loved her Speed Queens.
My beautiful Samsung refrigerator is now 7 years old and still going strong, thank goodness.
As an aside, washers and dryers keep getting bigger. Those of us with small laundry closets may have a problem replacing our washers and dryers in the future.
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by LilyFleur »

123 wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:29 pm And it's worse with TVs. If you buy a "smart" TV (the only kind available now) you may get 2 - 3 years of "smart" life out of it before you need to acquire another smart device (Roku, Apple TV, Amazon Fire, etc) to bypass it's brain and add features or apps that aren't accommodated by that original brain.
My smart Roku TV is 2 years old and doing great. It has been invaluable during my self isolation; I project my art class videos to the big screen. I live a modest lifestyle but a big smart TV (from Costco...I think it was $650 on a $150 off sale) gives me enjoyment every day.
sport
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by sport »

obafgkm wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:06 pm Has there ever been a time when somebody said their newly-purchased appliance was better than anything they had before? It rarely seems that way around these parts.

"The lawnmower I'll buy in 2035 is worse than the one I just bought in 2020." :P
I am much happier with my new Whirlpool refrigerator than I was with my old noisy unreliable GE Profile unit.
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dual
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by dual »

ballons wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:00 pm They wanted "dumb" but skipped of all of them and bought an expensive LG. They sold it for $40. :oops:

This guy ended up paying $1168 for a used washing machine.
You and all the other posters who agree with you are missing the point. The Zimmermans initially did not want smart or dumb. They wanted a machine that cleaned their clothes. They found that the 'smart' one did not do the job. After fooling with the 'smart' machine for 2 years they gave up and purchased the dumb one and found it did clean their clothes to their satisfaction.

bob60014 :
But we took the time to read the manual and learned what settings to use, what needed to be tweaked and figured it out. But we took the time to read the manual and learned what settings to use, what needed to be tweaked and figured it out.
Why should the user have to read a manual, tweak and figure out how to get a machine to wash clothes?
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

quantAndHold wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:32 pm
obafgkm wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:06 pm Has there ever been a time when somebody said their newly-purchased appliance was better than anything they had before? It rarely seems that way around these parts.
I’ll say it. The LG washer and dryer we bought 2 years ago at Costco are light years ahead of the 20 year old ones they replaced.

But don’t get me started on the Samsung fridge. That‘s a completely different story.
DW is happy with our LG laundry pair, purchased when they were pretty expensive several years ago. One repair only.

Our LGs go 6 days a week, at least one load, sometimes more loads if the grandchildren are spending time with us.

So far as cleaning the clothes, I have never heard of that issue, and if it were an issue, I would hear about it.

Our laundry machines, just like our Vanguard accounts, are feature rich, far ahead of those machines and accounts we had in the past.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go. " -Mark Twain
linuxizer
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by linuxizer »

Got taken for a ride for notably more than $1168. The repair person who couldn't be bothered or didn't know how to fix the first one surely charged for their time.
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by lazydavid »

dual wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:35 pm
ballons wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:00 pm They wanted "dumb" but skipped of all of them and bought an expensive LG. They sold it for $40. :oops:

This guy ended up paying $1168 for a used washing machine.
You and all the other posters who agree with you are missing the point. The Zimmermans initially did not want smart or dumb. They wanted a machine that cleaned their clothes. They found that the 'smart' one did not do the job. After fooling with the 'smart' machine for 2 years they gave up and purchased the dumb one and found it did clean their clothes to their satisfaction.
You are not wrong about his motives. But neither is Ballons wrong about the outcome. Over the course of 2 years, he literally paid $1168 to replace his old broken washing machine with a used washing machine.
LittleMaggieMae
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by LittleMaggieMae »

I've got a kenmore no agitator top load machine. It gets my clothes clean (I'm kind of amazed at how good it is at getting stuff clean), uses less water, and is really energy efficient. But, it also takes little bites out of bed sheets and t-shirts when I use the wrong cycle (one with a high/fast spin speed). Apparently the high spin speed pulls a bit of the sheet or t-shirt thru the drain holes in the side of the machine - and apparently there are some sharp edges back there - and BAM! a little nibble bite gets taken out of my sheet or t-shirt (or pillow case or whatever). I've also noticed it's "harder" on clothes and towels as they seem to be 'wearing out' from washing - rather than actually use a lot faster than the old full of water agitator machine I use to have.

My next washing machine will be a front loader of some kind.

I'm also in the "less is more" area of thought. I don't need my washer to do much more than handle a few basic levels of washing to handle the routine washing needs. I don't need it to "sense" much of anything.
illumination
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by illumination »

And then you have the problem of things like computer control boards going out, and a manufacturer now has to have a control board in everything in order to meet the stringent environmental requirements. So the consumer will spend hundreds of dollars extra in repairs and hundreds more for a unit all to save like 10 cents a month on their utility bill. And probably throw the unit away way sooner than they should and will end up in a landfill (I went through this on a high end dishwasher after the 2nd control board) And it won't do as good a job, maybe have to do it several times (there goes the energy and water savings) and they'll have to add all sorts of extra things in there to help the process like "rinse aid" etc to get the dishes dry. The amount of water saved is what runs through my garden hose in a few seconds to water the lawn.

Appliances were way more reliable when everything was mechanical. I wonder if electronic toilets are next?

My experience with appliances is like luxury cars, usually the more expensive, the more complex and more problems. Simple is good. If I could buy a "new" dishwasher like how they built them 30 years ago, I would jump at that.
ballons
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by ballons »

obafgkm wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:06 pm Has there ever been a time when somebody said their newly-purchased appliance was better than anything they had before? It rarely seems that way around these parts.

"The lawnmower I'll buy in 2035 is worse than the one I just bought in 2020." :P
A lot of appliances can't physically be improved anymore e.g. microwaves, chest freezers, toasters, stand mixers, etc. The ones that can be improved, they have all been better.

Bought an electric lawnmower. No gas, no sputtering, no oil, quiet, and always starts.
ballons
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by ballons »

illumination wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:18 pm And then you have the problem of things like computer control boards going out, and a manufacturer now has to have a control board in everything in order to meet the stringent environmental requirements. So the consumer will spend hundreds of dollars extra in repairs and hundreds more for a unit all to save like 10 cents a month on their utility bill. And probably throw the unit away way sooner than they should and will end up in a landfill (I went through this on a high end dishwasher after the 2nd control board) And it won't do as good a job, maybe have to do it several times (there goes the energy and water savings) and they'll have to add all sorts of extra things in there to help the process like "rinse aid" etc to get the dishes dry. The amount of water saved is what runs through my garden hose in a few seconds to water the lawn.

Appliances were way more reliable when everything was mechanical. I wonder if electronic toilets are next?

My experience with appliances is like luxury cars, usually the more expensive, the more complex and more problems. Simple is good. If I could buy a "new" dishwasher like how they built them 30 years ago, I would jump at that.
Dumping phosphates uncontrolled into your local water is bad. If you don't think so, let people dump phosphates on your property.

The most basic dishwasher should be $1000. It is $300 today:
https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/when-it- ... than-ever/

If you want the "good old days" go buy commercial:
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/4321/u ... shers.html
$2,000 - $9,000
surfstar
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by surfstar »

translated for the younger folk

TL;DR
"Get off my lawn!"
iamlucky13
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by iamlucky13 »

As a preface, I like the idea of Speed Queen's approach to make a simple machine with durable components and (I assume) making it easy to maintain and repair. I especially agree with the author that user interface design should not make the machine the boss. It should be obvious how and easy to change settings, regardless of whether it is with knobs, buttons, or even a touch screen (I'm generally partially to knobs and feature-specific buttons for this type of application).

And if a manufacturer is going to switch from discrete electro-mechanical components to glossy electronic control panels, make them comparably robust for crying out loud! There's no excuse for the absurd percentage of washing machine user reviews that complain about spending hundreds of dollars replacing control panels.

That said, despite my generally cynical view of such regulations, this part is simply wrong:
Moreover, the regulations imposed by the federal government in the past decade to make many of our appliances “more efficient” and “environmentally friendly” has only served to make them useless.
The large majority of users, in addition to third party reviewers who conduct controlled tests, report that most modern appliances perform their basic functions like washing laundry just fine. Like many people, I've used a variety of machines over the years, including several agitators, and found that high efficiency clothes washers, both top and front-loading, clean just fine, and cause less wear on fabrics. They actually do surprisingly well at removing ground in dirt, food stains, etc. If there is a consistent short-coming related to efficiency standards, it's insufficient rinsing of really dirty clothes with the regular cycles. Hence why the extra rinse feature exists.

The author got a defective unit. I'm certain of that because we have the next model up in the same series - I think the only difference is adding a steam cycle, and the sales price at the time (I don't remember exactly, but less than $800) was close enough we decided to give it a try. I get fairly dirty working on the house or in the yard, and although sometimes we use the heavy wash cycle and extra rinse, on the whole it cleans at least as well as the unit it replaced, which in turn cleaned probably better than the agitator we used before that one.

He is also incorrect about the cycles not allowing flexibility. I seem to recall during initial testing identifying a couple combination of settings it wouldn't allow that I thought it should, but haven't found a clear need to use those combinations in practice. The interface could make those settings easier to understand, however.

I guess buying a used machine was one way to address all this. Personally, I read the manual to understand the settings, and would have held LG to their warranty and demanded a refund or replacement if they could not fix a problem found during the warranty period like the author says was the case here.

The real problem is that defects like this seem to be absurdly common in clothes washers.

I'm also one of those dissatisfied with short design lives. Unfortunately, the overall market seems to have found an intersection between a manufacturer interest in planned obsolescence and a consumer tendency to experience upgraditis or at least accept failures on roughly a 10 year time frame for major appliances.
anoop
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by anoop »

TheTimeLord wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:34 pm We absolutely LOVE our new smart washer. A first I couldn't believe the water level would work but it does. It is still a top load mode but since it doesn't have an agitator it holds a ton of clothes. You can either have it auto sense the water level or tell it fill the tub if you wanted. I get kudos from my wife on this purchase. As I remember it was under $800 at Best Buy.
Sorry, gotta check -- any chance all of your clothes are black?
illumination
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by illumination »

ballons wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:47 pm
illumination wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:18 pm And then you have the problem of things like computer control boards going out, and a manufacturer now has to have a control board in everything in order to meet the stringent environmental requirements. So the consumer will spend hundreds of dollars extra in repairs and hundreds more for a unit all to save like 10 cents a month on their utility bill. And probably throw the unit away way sooner than they should and will end up in a landfill (I went through this on a high end dishwasher after the 2nd control board) And it won't do as good a job, maybe have to do it several times (there goes the energy and water savings) and they'll have to add all sorts of extra things in there to help the process like "rinse aid" etc to get the dishes dry. The amount of water saved is what runs through my garden hose in a few seconds to water the lawn.

Appliances were way more reliable when everything was mechanical. I wonder if electronic toilets are next?

My experience with appliances is like luxury cars, usually the more expensive, the more complex and more problems. Simple is good. If I could buy a "new" dishwasher like how they built them 30 years ago, I would jump at that.
Dumping phosphates uncontrolled into your local water is bad. If you don't think so, let people dump phosphates on your property.

The most basic dishwasher should be $1000. It is $300 today:
https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/when-it- ... than-ever/

If you want the "good old days" go buy commercial:
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/4321/u ... shers.html
$2,000 - $9,000
I don't remember even bringing up phosphates, but I think that's nonsense also, the problem was that it was too "good" for plant life. I actually do put it on my property when I fertilize my grass. Of course California rolled this silliness out first, sort of like every product now has a Prop 65 label on it.

I now add phosphate to my dishwasher, you can buy it as TSP Trisodium Phosphate at Home Depot or Amazon. It makes a nice booster. Or you can buy Cascade Professional.
THY4373
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by THY4373 »

123 wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:29 pm And it's worse with TVs. If you buy a "smart" TV (the only kind available now) you may get 2 - 3 years of "smart" life out of it before you need to acquire another smart device (Roku, Apple TV, Amazon Fire, etc) to bypass it's brain and add features or apps that aren't accommodated by that original brain.
I think I paid $29.95 for my Fire Stick 4k about three years after I bought my somewhat cut-rate smart TV which started having issues with YouTube app. Doesn't seem a major deal to me. But you are right the lack of software support/upgrades on hardware after a few years can lead to the premature retirement of hardware that is otherwise functional though this is less of an issue for say a TV where adding an additional device is easy than say a tablet where it isn't.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

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anoop wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:15 pm
TheTimeLord wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:34 pm We absolutely LOVE our new smart washer. A first I couldn't believe the water level would work but it does. It is still a top load mode but since it doesn't have an agitator it holds a ton of clothes. You can either have it auto sense the water level or tell it fill the tub if you wanted. I get kudos from my wife on this purchase. As I remember it was under $800 at Best Buy.
Sorry, gotta check -- any chance all of your clothes are black?
A few but most are colors or gray, very little white beyond workout socks. We use Tide Pods.
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bob60014
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by bob60014 »

dual wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:35 pm
But we took the time to read the manual and learned what settings to use, what needed to be tweaked and figured it out. But we took the time to read the manual and learned what settings to use, what needed to be tweaked and figured it out.
Why should the user have to read a manual, tweak and figure out how to get a machine to wash clothes?
Because there are obvious differences between how a older style machine works and a newer model. I read my cars manual too! :)
anoop
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by anoop »

TheTimeLord wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:42 pm
anoop wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:15 pm
TheTimeLord wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:34 pm We absolutely LOVE our new smart washer. A first I couldn't believe the water level would work but it does. It is still a top load mode but since it doesn't have an agitator it holds a ton of clothes. You can either have it auto sense the water level or tell it fill the tub if you wanted. I get kudos from my wife on this purchase. As I remember it was under $800 at Best Buy.
Sorry, gotta check -- any chance all of your clothes are black?
A few but most are colors or gray, very little white beyond workout socks. We use Tide Pods.
Do you pretreat everything with stains?

What appears to be going on is that soaking the clothes in a little water & detergent for however long the machine does seems to be getting them clean. Because that's all a top load machine without an agitator is essentially doing.
Last edited by anoop on Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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noraz123
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by noraz123 »

quantAndHold wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:32 pm
obafgkm wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:06 pm Has there ever been a time when somebody said their newly-purchased appliance was better than anything they had before? It rarely seems that way around these parts.
I’ll say it. The LG washer and dryer we bought 2 years ago at Costco are light years ahead of the 20 year old ones they replaced.

But don’t get me started on the Samsung fridge. That‘s a completely different story.
I'll say it too. The new refrigerator we got this year is much better than previous (> 10 years old).

My current TV, vacuum cleaner, refrigerator, stove/range/oven, cell phone, laptop, car, dishwasher, microwave, soundbar/speakers and portable air conditioner are all better than the previous ones.

I've not yet replaced washer and dryer. But I would like to think they will be better than previous ones.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by TheTimeLord »

anoop wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:05 pm
TheTimeLord wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:42 pm
anoop wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:15 pm
TheTimeLord wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:34 pm We absolutely LOVE our new smart washer. A first I couldn't believe the water level would work but it does. It is still a top load mode but since it doesn't have an agitator it holds a ton of clothes. You can either have it auto sense the water level or tell it fill the tub if you wanted. I get kudos from my wife on this purchase. As I remember it was under $800 at Best Buy.
Sorry, gotta check -- any chance all of your clothes are black?
A few but most are colors or gray, very little white beyond workout socks. We use Tide Pods.
Do you pretreat everything with stains?

What appears to be going on is that soaking the clothes in a little water & detergent for however long the machine does seems to be getting them clean. Because that's all a top load machine without an agitator is essentially doing.
Not from what I can tell, it does a lot more. And no I do not pretreat unless there I spilled something or sometimes a collar ring. But I did that before. But everyone has their own expectations.
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Mr. Rumples
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by Mr. Rumples »

I bought the base model Speed Queen. Top loader with an agitator. I remember going to the laundry mat so just having a washing machine is nice. If I want to soak something, there is a sink. Now that I am old, as long as I don't have that old man smell, I'll be happy.
iamlucky13
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by iamlucky13 »

bob60014 wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:01 pm
dual wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:35 pm
But we took the time to read the manual and learned what settings to use, what needed to be tweaked and figured it out. But we took the time to read the manual and learned what settings to use, what needed to be tweaked and figured it out.
Why should the user have to read a manual, tweak and figure out how to get a machine to wash clothes?
Because there are obvious differences between how a older style machine works and a newer model. I read my cars manual too! :)
A good user interface design makes it easy to transition to new models for most features. Appliance makers have mixed and generally poor performance in this category in my opinion. It shouldn't be pretty intuitive to figure out how to use the most common cycles. Microwaves as a category are the worst about this.

You should generally plan on needing to use a manual to learn advanced features, and might also when changing to a new type (eg - from a top loader to a front loader). If you don't plan to use the advanced features, then no problem.

My view of all the added features many appliances have is they're fine as long as they don't make it hard to access the main features, and don't compromise the reliability.
bluebolt
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by bluebolt »

I bought a new dishwasher recently and it outperforms my previous one on capacity, quietness, cleaning, and drying.
I bought a new refrigerator recently and it is much quieter and more energy efficient than the one it replaced.
Chris001122
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by Chris001122 »

I hate my new dishwasher. It doesn't heat dry the dishes like the old one did. And, to remind you to open it when done in THREE HOURS, it beeps 10 times. If you fail to open it, it will remind you again in like every 30 minutes for forever.

If you still refuse to open it, the dishes will be wet still until you open it and let them air dry.

Major step backward. Yet, supposedly saves energy and the "environment".

[OT climate change comment removed by moderator oldcomputerguy]
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davebo
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Re: Replacing appliances--buy dumb

Post by davebo »

I have been pretty happy with my dishwasher and fridge, so far. Who knows what will happens once I need a repair. I don't have a fancy dishwasher, but it senses how dirty the water is and adjusts the run time. As a result, it takes probably 3x as long to clean dishes as my old one but I guess at least it gets the dishes clean.

When my 9 year old washer broke (a dumb washer), the guy told me that they really are only built to last that long so get the cheapest/dumbest one you can find with the center agitator.
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