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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:37 pm
by FoolStreet
bob60014 wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:59 am
FoolStreet wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:03 pm
Yes, this is a design flaw with the saddle-style bladder. I assume Toyota will fix it.
The Rav 4 is saddle style, but it does not use a bladder tank. Those were in the Prius and eliminated in 2010, IIRC.
I can’t speak for the details, but here is the most recent article I could find. I am a big fan of this car and would still recommend it.


https://www.torquenews.com/6626/toyota- ... s-response

Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:34 pm
by bob60014
FoolStreet wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:37 pm
bob60014 wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:59 am
FoolStreet wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:03 pm
Yes, this is a design flaw with the saddle-style bladder. I assume Toyota will fix it.
The Rav 4 is saddle style, but it does not use a bladder tank. Those were in the Prius and eliminated in 2010, IIRC.
I can’t speak for the details, but here is the most recent article I could find. I am a big fan of this car and would still recommend it.

I know, it didn't deter us from buying.
https://www.torquenews.com/6626/toyota- ... s-response

Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:27 pm
by flyingaway
So the hybrid car has two power systems, one is gas, the other is electricity.

Does it run if one power system is out of order?

Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:33 pm
by FoolStreet
flyingaway wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:27 pm So the hybrid car has two power systems, one is gas, the other is electricity.

Does it run if one power system is out of order?
I mean, it is Toyota-class reliability and they have been doing hybrids the longest. From my experience with a Prius, I would say yes for sure. They build in that kind of redundancy. But I am not a Toyota engineer.

Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:10 pm
by bob60014
flyingaway wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:27 pm So the hybrid car has two power systems, one is gas, the other is electricity.

Does it run if one power system is out of order?
Yes, but when running on the battery only it runs out of power really quick. IIRC, it's something like 2 miles. Battery only is not meant to be a primary power source.

Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:37 pm
by 02nz
flyingaway wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:27 pm So the hybrid car has two power systems, one is gas, the other is electricity.

Does it run if one power system is out of order?
The electricity really only augments the gasoline powertrain. When the vehicle slows down, the energy is recaptured, stored in the battery, and available to use later for acceleration. With a full battery, most hybrids can only run at low speeds for a short distance without turning on the gas engine. Toyota's hybrid powertrain is very proven and reliable, in fact the Prius is more reliable than most gasoline-only cars, so I wouldn't worry about this.

Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:39 pm
by greg24
We have run into the filling issue. Everyone on the internet tells me they can fill it about 75% full.

Ours fills to just below the Full line. Obviously its not full, but I'd guess 80-85% full. Doesn't matter either way for us.

We did receive a mailing basically telling us they'll do a recall someday to fix. Not yet.

Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:55 pm
by canderson
The gas tank issue (it’s a sensor issue technically) is supposedly corrected in any RAV4 manufactured after April 2020, fwiw.

Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:28 pm
by msi
How do you all like the seating material, Softex? Close enough to leather? Hotter/cooler than leather? Durable?

I see you can't get real leather in any trim for the RAV4 gas or hybrid.

Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:44 pm
by FoolStreet
msi wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:28 pm How do you all like the seating material, Softex? Close enough to leather? Hotter/cooler than leather? Durable?

I see you can't get real leather in any trim for the RAV4 gas or hybrid.
If you spring for the upgraded package, they have ventilated seats which are really nice in the summer. Highly recommended.

Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:48 pm
by illumination
I was helping some relatives sell their Lexus hybrid, an RX400h.

One thing I found unusual is the hybrid had a worse resale than the non-hybrid version. Because there's an expensive battery for the electric motor, like $5,000 from the dealership. And the biggest reason my relatives wanted to unload the car...was fear this battery was going to go out. Almost like an engine going out in terms of cost. I actually think there's aftermarket options that are worthwhile, but I can somewhat understand someone not wanting to risk it.

I personally just don't like the the way hybrids drive, the gas engine kicking on and off, etc. Throw in they are more expensive new and in some cases have worse resale, also potentially more expensive repairs as they are more complex, etc. I think you almost have to be interested in the "eco" part of it to make the case. The more expensive cost up front alone wipe out much of the gas savings over the life of the vehicle.

I can never see myself getting one, but I'm open to an all electric car.

Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:57 pm
by FoolStreet
illumination wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:48 pm I was helping some relatives sell their Lexus hybrid, an RX400h.

One thing I found unusual is the hybrid had a worse resale than the non-hybrid version. Because there's an expensive battery for the electric motor, like $5,000 from the dealership. And the biggest reason my relatives wanted to unload the car...was fear this battery was going to go out. Almost like an engine going out in terms of cost. I actually think there's aftermarket options that are worthwhile, but I can somewhat understand someone not wanting to risk it.

I personally just don't like the the way hybrids drive, the gas engine kicking on and off, etc. Throw in they are more expensive new and in some cases have worse resale, also potentially more expensive repairs as they are more complex, etc. I think you almost have to be interested in the "eco" part of it to make the case. The more expensive cost up front alone wipe out much of the gas savings over the life of the vehicle.

I can never see myself getting one, but I'm open to an all electric car.
I've been recommending the Rav5 Hybrid and stand by that.

But you're not wrong and I think you are making the right takeaway. In the grand scheme of things, having 2 drivetrains, means more parts to fail. All electric is the best option because the drivetrain is just so much simpler. So many components in a car are necessary to support a combustion engine that are simply not needed with a battery. If I had to create a peking order, I would suggest: all electric > plug-in hybrid > hybrid > gas efficient > regular gas car.

I certainly would have considered a used RX400h, although as a tightwad, I like the Toyota-priced service center over the Lexus one, lol :-)

Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:16 pm
by adamthesmythe
msi wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:28 pm How do you all like the seating material, Softex? Close enough to leather? Hotter/cooler than leather? Durable?

I see you can't get real leather in any trim for the RAV4 gas or hybrid.
Once I sat in a 3-series BMW with leather. It felt just like vinyl.

I have a Rav4 with the nicer, ventilated seats. I'm happy with it. I think it feels better than that BMW did.

Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:45 pm
by mmmodem
anthonyphamy wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:29 am Although the hybrid drivetrain is more complicated,
Not sure I agree with you on that one. The Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive is actually not as complicated as some would think. It doesn't have an alternator. There are no drive belts to break. There are no gears, not even reverse. There's no transmission. It's just a transaxle that mimics a CVT. Yes, a hybrid has a battery but there are a lot of components in a standard internal combustion engine that you don't find in Toyota's HSD.

I wouldn't go so far as say a hybrid is simpler than an internal combustion engine. But at least Toyota's version of a hybrid isn't more complicated. It's just different. And because of regenerative braking, I never replaced brake pads in either of my Prius with over 150k miles. Previous owner of two Prius and now a Ford Escape Hybrid so I am biased.

Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:26 pm
by anthonyphamy
mmmodem wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:45 pm
anthonyphamy wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:29 am Although the hybrid drivetrain is more complicated,
Not sure I agree with you on that one. The Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive is actually not as complicated as some would think. It doesn't have an alternator. There are no drive belts to break. There are no gears, not even reverse. There's no transmission. It's just a transaxle that mimics a CVT. Yes, a hybrid has a battery but there are a lot of components in a standard internal combustion engine that you don't find in Toyota's HSD.

I wouldn't go so far as say a hybrid is simpler than an internal combustion engine. But at least Toyota's version of a hybrid isn't more complicated. It's just different. And because of regenerative braking, I never replaced brake pads in either of my Prius with over 150k miles. Previous owner of two Prius and now a Ford Escape Hybrid so I am biased.
Thanks for clarifying. I didn't realize they didn't have alternators, drive belts, or gears! I guess in that way there's less components so less replacement there. That's great life on your brake pads too. Things I wouldn't have known without owning a hybrid previously. I appreciate it!