Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

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anthonyphamy
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Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by anthonyphamy »

Good morning Bogleheads,

I am planning to buy a new car this year and am between either a gas only or hybrid 2020 Toyota RAV4 base models. I would like a car that I could hold onto for about 15 years, with low cost of maintenance and good reliability. Based off my 2019 mileage, I calculated I should be able to make up the cost difference between the more costly hybrid version in approximately 7 years. Although recently with covid, I have been working remotely about 50% so my mileage has decreased.
The RAV4 hybrid is AWD, which comes with pros and cons. Pros being I could take it off road more comfortably, however a con will include if a tire needs to be replaced all tires need to be replaced. Although the hybrid drivetrain is more complicated, it does come with the 10-year warranty and I think it's based off the Consumer Reports approved Toyota Prius hybrid drivetrain. I would like to take this car camping and snowboarding, and I read a nice perk of the hybrid engine is that you can leave the AC/heat running over night with minimal gas consumption.
I have gotten a chance to rent the gas version for a weekend trip, which I enjoyed. I did feel slightly cramped, although I am coming from a larger car, and there were 4 people with a lot of luggage. I did note that the engine was a little loud, but nothing to complain about. I read the hybrid version had a more quiet engine which would be a perk.
Ultimately, I think I would be happy with either and now trying to choose the more economical choice.

I’d greatly welcome and appreciate any thoughts and advice.

Thank you very much in advance,
Anthony
FoolStreet
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by FoolStreet »

anthonyphamy wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:29 am Good morning Bogleheads,

I am planning to buy a new car this year and am between either a gas only or hybrid 2020 Toyota RAV4 base models. I would like a car that I could hold onto for about 15 years, with low cost of maintenance and good reliability. Based off my 2019 mileage, I calculated I should be able to make up the cost difference between the more costly hybrid version in approximately 7 years. Although recently with covid, I have been working remotely about 50% so my mileage has decreased.
The RAV4 hybrid is AWD, which comes with pros and cons. Pros being I could take it off road more comfortably, however a con will include if a tire needs to be replaced all tires need to be replaced. Although the hybrid drivetrain is more complicated, it does come with the 10-year warranty and I think it's based off the Consumer Reports approved Toyota Prius hybrid drivetrain. I would like to take this car camping and snowboarding, and I read a nice perk of the hybrid engine is that you can leave the AC/heat running over night with minimal gas consumption.
I have gotten a chance to rent the gas version for a weekend trip, which I enjoyed. I did feel slightly cramped, although I am coming from a larger car, and there were 4 people with a lot of luggage. I did note that the engine was a little loud, but nothing to complain about. I read the hybrid version had a more quiet engine which would be a perk.
Ultimately, I think I would be happy with either and now trying to choose the more economical choice.

I’d greatly welcome and appreciate any thoughts and advice.

Thank you very much in advance,
Anthony
I recommend the hybrid. More power and uses less gas. To me, no brainer. However, this assumes you have the financial position to buy a new car.
TrollToll
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by TrollToll »

You may also consider the new plug-in hybrid version too. It's a bit more expensive, but has a tax credit that mostly offsets the increase in price.
flyingaway
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by flyingaway »

FoolStreet wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:34 am
anthonyphamy wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:29 am Good morning Bogleheads,

I am planning to buy a new car this year and am between either a gas only or hybrid 2020 Toyota RAV4 base models. I would like a car that I could hold onto for about 15 years, with low cost of maintenance and good reliability. Based off my 2019 mileage, I calculated I should be able to make up the cost difference between the more costly hybrid version in approximately 7 years. Although recently with covid, I have been working remotely about 50% so my mileage has decreased.
The RAV4 hybrid is AWD, which comes with pros and cons. Pros being I could take it off road more comfortably, however a con will include if a tire needs to be replaced all tires need to be replaced. Although the hybrid drivetrain is more complicated, it does come with the 10-year warranty and I think it's based off the Consumer Reports approved Toyota Prius hybrid drivetrain. I would like to take this car camping and snowboarding, and I read a nice perk of the hybrid engine is that you can leave the AC/heat running over night with minimal gas consumption.
I have gotten a chance to rent the gas version for a weekend trip, which I enjoyed. I did feel slightly cramped, although I am coming from a larger car, and there were 4 people with a lot of luggage. I did note that the engine was a little loud, but nothing to complain about. I read the hybrid version had a more quiet engine which would be a perk.
Ultimately, I think I would be happy with either and now trying to choose the more economical choice.

I’d greatly welcome and appreciate any thoughts and advice.

Thank you very much in advance,
Anthony
I recommend the hybrid. More power and uses less gas. To me, no brainer. However, this assumes you have the financial position to buy a new car.
What did you mean more power? Did you mean more horsepower or more choice of power, electricity and gas?
cusetownusa
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by cusetownusa »

anthonyphamy wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:29 am Good morning Bogleheads,

I am planning to buy a new car this year and am between either a gas only or hybrid 2020 Toyota RAV4 base models. I would like a car that I could hold onto for about 15 years, with low cost of maintenance and good reliability. Based off my 2019 mileage, I calculated I should be able to make up the cost difference between the more costly hybrid version in approximately 7 years. Although recently with covid, I have been working remotely about 50% so my mileage has decreased.
The RAV4 hybrid is AWD, which comes with pros and cons. Pros being I could take it off road more comfortably, however a con will include if a tire needs to be replaced all tires need to be replaced. Although the hybrid drivetrain is more complicated, it does come with the 10-year warranty and I think it's based off the Consumer Reports approved Toyota Prius hybrid drivetrain. I would like to take this car camping and snowboarding, and I read a nice perk of the hybrid engine is that you can leave the AC/heat running over night with minimal gas consumption.
I have gotten a chance to rent the gas version for a weekend trip, which I enjoyed. I did feel slightly cramped, although I am coming from a larger car, and there were 4 people with a lot of luggage. I did note that the engine was a little loud, but nothing to complain about. I read the hybrid version had a more quiet engine which would be a perk.
Ultimately, I think I would be happy with either and now trying to choose the more economical choice.

I’d greatly welcome and appreciate any thoughts and advice.

Thank you very much in advance,
Anthony
Is this really a thing? I have always had AWD vehicles and I don't ever remember having to replace all 4 tires if one blew out? Why would it be different than a 2WD vehicle?

Also, why would you ever want to leave your car running over night?

Anyways, to answer your question. I would probably go with the Hybrid. Although, in my area i prefer to have AWD anyways. We may end up getting the Highlander and would also choose the Hybrid.
Last edited by cusetownusa on Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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TierArtz
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by TierArtz »

I recommend the hybrid. I've owned nothing but Toyota/Lexus for 15 years, including a Prius, and am very pleased. The Prius swayed my in-laws to Toyota hybrids. They drove a hybrid Camry for 13 years or so. They now have a 2020 Rav-4 hybrid Limited. I drove it and loved it - quiet, plenty of acceleration, and lots of comfort-enhancing features. Personally, I'd need something bigger.
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by lthenderson »

anthonyphamy wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:29 am however a con will include if a tire needs to be replaced all tires need to be replaced.
Not true. According to the manual you can have up to 3/32 tread difference and be within acceptable range. If you can't find a replacement/new tire within that range, you can buy a tire online from tirerack or a number of other places and have it shaved to match the tread depth of your other three tires.
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Stinky
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by Stinky »

We have a 2020 RAV4 hybrid. So does our son.

We both love the vehicle.
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bob60014
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by bob60014 »

We recently purchased. Rav 4 Hybrid and as previously mentioned it is quiet, has plenty of acceleration (in Sport mode which lowers mpg) , and lots of comfort-enhancing features, especially with the Limited version. The Toyota hybrid technology is rock solid and we average 43 mpg without really trying while driving primarily in the ECO mode.

Someone asked about more power. This is the main difference between the gas and hybrid versions. The Rav 4 Hybrid has electric motors on the rear that engage when needed, giving it a horsepower boost without compromising mpg much. The gas version using strictly the I.C.E., doesn't have that extra punch.
chrisjul
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by chrisjul »

HYBRID.

I've owned 2 Toyota hybrids for a total of 14 years with NO Repairs (only maintenance).

Outstanding vehicles!
02nz
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by 02nz »

flyingaway wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:39 am What did you mean more power? Did you mean more horsepower or more choice of power, electricity and gas?
The hybrid has more horsepower and maybe more importantly more torque from the electric motor. According to Motor Trend 0-60 is almost a second quicker 0-60 (7.1 vs 8.0) than the non-hybrid RAV4, with less engine noise: https://www.motortrend.com/cars/toyota/ ... irst-test/

IMHO given the hybrid's small price premium (<$1K if comparing AWD versions) and fuel savings it's a no-brainer.
Last edited by 02nz on Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
flyingaway
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by flyingaway »

Because the hybrid uses the motor less frequently, do you guys (currently owners) do fewer oil changes for the hybrid, compared with the gas one?
chesley
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by chesley »

We opted for a Forester because of the overall driving experience, but I liked the RAV4 Hybrid design feature that has the electric motor providing the power to the rear wheels. It is likely an improvement to the Toyota AWD system, which has been not as good as Subaru's.
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by bubbadog »

Regarding hybrid versus gas only RAV4s, the dealers around me were asking and apparently getting MSRP for the hybrids RAV4s. They are a very popular vehicle. Discounts were much more common on the gas only versions. From a purely financial perspective, the OTD price difference between the gas only and hybrid versions will likely be significantly greater than the difference in their MSRPs. I personally would opt for the hybrid version. One common issue that has been frequently mentioned on online forums with the hybrid RAV4 is the inability for some owners to completely fill the fuel tank.
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by bob60014 »

flyingaway wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:26 am Because the hybrid uses the motor less frequently, do you guys (currently owners) do fewer oil changes for the hybrid, compared with the gas one?
It's synthetic oil, 7500-10k miles is Toyotas recommendation. The maintenance savings comes in the braking system. As it uses the electric motors to assist in braking and especially when using the full-speed dynamic radar cruise control, there is less wear on the main brakes. Some report getting 100k or more on a set of brakes. While this may be at the high end, I can see with my own braking pattern that fewer brake jobs are going to be done.
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by flyingaway »

bubbadog wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:43 am Regarding hybrid versus gas only RAV4s, the dealers around me were asking and apparently getting MSRP for the hybrids RAV4s. They are a very popular vehicle. Discounts were much more common on the gas only versions. From a purely financial perspective, the OTD price difference between the gas only and hybrid versions will likely be significantly greater than the difference in their MSRPs. I personally would opt for the hybrid version. One common issue that has been frequently mentioned on online forums with the hybrid RAV4 is the inability for some owners to completely fill the fuel tank.
Do they have fuel tanks of the same size?
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StormShadow
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by StormShadow »

flyingaway wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:39 am
FoolStreet wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:34 am I recommend the hybrid. More power and uses less gas. To me, no brainer. However, this assumes you have the financial position to buy a new car.
What did you mean more power? Did you mean more horsepower or more choice of power, electricity and gas?
All of the above.

Rav4 Prime.
02nz
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by 02nz »

StormShadow wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:59 am
flyingaway wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:39 am
FoolStreet wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:34 am I recommend the hybrid. More power and uses less gas. To me, no brainer. However, this assumes you have the financial position to buy a new car.
What did you mean more power? Did you mean more horsepower or more choice of power, electricity and gas?
All of the above.

Rav4 Prime.
That's going to be very tight supply for some time.
02nz
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by 02nz »

flyingaway wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:59 am
bubbadog wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:43 am Regarding hybrid versus gas only RAV4s, the dealers around me were asking and apparently getting MSRP for the hybrids RAV4s. They are a very popular vehicle. Discounts were much more common on the gas only versions. From a purely financial perspective, the OTD price difference between the gas only and hybrid versions will likely be significantly greater than the difference in their MSRPs. I personally would opt for the hybrid version. One common issue that has been frequently mentioned on online forums with the hybrid RAV4 is the inability for some owners to completely fill the fuel tank.
Do they have fuel tanks of the same size?
Apparently yes, both 14.5 gal.
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greg24
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by greg24 »

bubbadog wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:43 am Regarding hybrid versus gas only RAV4s, the dealers around me were asking and apparently getting MSRP for the hybrids RAV4s. They are a very popular vehicle. Discounts were much more common on the gas only versions. From a purely financial perspective, the OTD price difference between the gas only and hybrid versions will likely be significantly greater than the difference in their MSRPs. I personally would opt for the hybrid version. One common issue that has been frequently mentioned on online forums with the hybrid RAV4 is the inability for some owners to completely fill the fuel tank.
We bought a 2020 hybrid in the fall. At that time, we had the same experience. The dealer was looking to make deals on the gas version but hard to budge on the hybrid. Sales dude said Toyota was producing 70% gas and 30% hybrid, but he thought it seemed like the demand was the opposite of that.

The hybrid version is great. We had rented the gas version previously. The hybrid version is a better car, more power and quieter.

The best economical outcome may be to find a really good deal on a gas version.
tdmp
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by tdmp »

02nz wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:00 pm
StormShadow wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:59 am
flyingaway wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:39 am
FoolStreet wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:34 am I recommend the hybrid. More power and uses less gas. To me, no brainer. However, this assumes you have the financial position to buy a new car.
What did you mean more power? Did you mean more horsepower or more choice of power, electricity and gas?
All of the above.

Rav4 Prime.
That's going to be very tight supply for some time.
If OP can find RAV-4 Prime, then definitely that is the BEST option: more power, faster acceleration, gets ~ 40 miles EPA range on all electric. I think Toyota is shipping about 5000 of these for 2020 and 20,000 for 2021. With Federal tax rebate + some state rebate (depending on state): price might be around the Rav-4 hybrid.
However, if the choice is between the rav-4 hybrid vs. the gas, then definitely the Rav-4 hybrid: more power, more efficient, regenerative braking.
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by Sandi_k »

I have a 2019 RAV4 hybrid Limited. My comments:

- The hybrid model (at least for 2019) had additional sound-deadening under the hood which leads to a quieter drive in comparison to the gas version.

- How much offroad driving are you doing? If not much, you might also consider the soon-to-be-debuted Toyota hybrid Venza. Looks much more Lexus-like, and much more CUV than SUV.

- The bells and whistles on the Ltd add up fast - so make sure to do an apples-to-apples comparison on the added features from the LX/LE/Ltd trim levels.
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by adamthesmythe »

I bought gas because (1) costs less (2) most of my driving is longer-distance, and highway (3) I think simpler is better (not that any car is simple these days) and (4) extra acceleration doesn't really matter, the way I drive.

I am seeing on the display (which I suppose is of questionable accuracy) 33+ mpg average with an AWD system. Substantially better than my previous, and smaller, crossover.
palanzo
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by palanzo »

TierArtz wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:41 am I recommend the hybrid. I've owned nothing but Toyota/Lexus for 15 years, including a Prius, and am very pleased. The Prius swayed my in-laws to Toyota hybrids. They drove a hybrid Camry for 13 years or so. They now have a 2020 Rav-4 hybrid Limited. I drove it and loved it - quiet, plenty of acceleration, and lots of comfort-enhancing features. Personally, I'd need something bigger.
I'm looking at the RAV4 Hybrid as well but the online reviews all mention the noise and drone of the engine under acceleration. Is that not the case?
General Disarray
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by General Disarray »

I'm also looking at a Toyta RAV4 and likely will opt for the full gas version.

Is hybrid not an issue in cold weather climates? Doesn't the battery discharge quicker in cold weather?
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RootSki
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by RootSki »

Hybrid all day long...
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by bloom2708 »

General Disarray wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:20 pm I'm also looking at a Toyta RAV4 and likely will opt for the full gas version.

Is hybrid not an issue in cold weather climates? Doesn't the battery discharge quicker in cold weather?
We live about as cold as it gets. You do get lower range in the winter. Just like you get lower mpg on gas engines. Colder/denser air.

The heating system uses some of your battery power.

With a hybrid only, the battery just helps the motor. Recharges when braking or driving. There are built in battery protection for super cold weather. We have -30F sometimes in the winter.

We had a 2013 Ford C-Max Energi (Plug in, then hybrid) and now a 2017 Ford Fusion Energi (Plug in, then hybrid). We get ~24 miles in the summer and ~15 miles of all electric in the winter.

If you do short drives and in town, the plug in electric/hybrid is pretty fun.
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by cadreamer2015 »

I'm looking at the RAV4 Prime, but will wait until next year at the earliest. I've heard of dealers asking for and getting $5,000 over MSRP or more. They are only shipping 5,000 units to the entire US this year. Maybe 20,000 units in 2021.
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Will do good
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by Will do good »

If I could I would get the RAV4 Prime, but since it will be in short demand for a while we will get the Tesla Y.
HotRod140
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by HotRod140 »

I bought the 2017 hybrid end of year model with 3,000 dollar rebate. Great car, no problems at all. Looking at Hybrid Highlander. Can I ask if anyone has that particular vehicle?
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by General Disarray »

Are there special service needs that the hybrid RAV4 might have? Would a hybrid RAV4 owner need to service at a dealer primarily? (And that would mean higher costs.)
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greg24
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by greg24 »

General Disarray wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:20 pmIs hybrid not an issue in cold weather climates? Doesn't the battery discharge quicker in cold weather?
All engines get worse mileage in cold weather. I have found that our Prius and Rav4 show percentage drops that compare to ICE vehicles. The Prius actually seems to fare better than ICE vehicles.
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SmileyFace
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by SmileyFace »

I bought one about a year ago - went with gas as it was thousands cheaper (don't look at MSRP difference - look at what you will actually pay - gas version you can get around invoice; hard to negotiate the hybrid - up closer to MSRP). Pretty good gas mileage on the gas version - no need to go hybrid - I calculated it would never pay for itself. The little bit of extra power is irrelevant to me.
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anthonyphamy
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by anthonyphamy »

FoolStreet wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:34 am I recommend the hybrid. More power and uses less gas. To me, no brainer. However, this assumes you have the financial position to buy a new car.
I am in the position to buy a new car.
TrollToll wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:35 am You may also consider the new plug-in hybrid version too. It's a bit more expensive, but has a tax credit that mostly offsets the increase in price.
I considered it, however, due to the limited supply, I think it will be a while before I can get my hands on one.
cusetownusa wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:41 am Is this really a thing? I have always had AWD vehicles and I don't ever remember having to replace all 4 tires if one blew out? Why would it be different than a 2WD vehicle?

Also, why would you ever want to leave your car running over night?

Anyways, to answer your question. I would probably go with the Hybrid. Although, in my area i prefer to have AWD anyways. We may end up getting the Highlander and would also choose the Hybrid.
I thought so, however, looks like another poster, states that as long as it's close enough then only the pair needs to be replaced. The reason why I might consider leaving the car running over night is if I was camping in the back of my car :D
TierArtz wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:41 am I recommend the hybrid. I've owned nothing but Toyota/Lexus for 15 years, including a Prius, and am very pleased. The Prius swayed my in-laws to Toyota hybrids. They drove a hybrid Camry for 13 years or so. They now have a 2020 Rav-4 hybrid Limited. I drove it and loved it - quiet, plenty of acceleration, and lots of comfort-enhancing features. Personally, I'd need something bigger.
Thanks for the recommendation! I wish the RAV4 was slightly larger, like the size of the Forester. I did take a look at the new Venza coming out, however it looks like the Venza may be pretty comparable in size and cost more.
lthenderson wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:44 am
anthonyphamy wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:29 am however a con will include if a tire needs to be replaced all tires need to be replaced.
Not true. According to the manual you can have up to 3/32 tread difference and be within acceptable range. If you can't find a replacement/new tire within that range, you can buy a tire online from tirerack or a number of other places and have it shaved to match the tread depth of your other three tires.
Thank you for clarifying!
chrisjul wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:08 am HYBRID.

I've owned 2 Toyota hybrids for a total of 14 years with NO Repairs (only maintenance).

Outstanding vehicles!
Wow, that's great news! Thanks for sharing!
02nz wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:16 am
flyingaway wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:39 am What did you mean more power? Did you mean more horsepower or more choice of power, electricity and gas?
The hybrid has more horsepower and maybe more importantly more torque from the electric motor. According to Motor Trend 0-60 is almost a second quicker 0-60 (7.1 vs 8.0) than the non-hybrid RAV4, with less engine noise: https://www.motortrend.com/cars/toyota/ ... irst-test/

IMHO given the hybrid's small price premium (<$1K if comparing AWD versions) and fuel savings it's a no-brainer.
Thanks, if I were to decide for the gas only, I would only get the 2 wheel drive version, so the difference would be larger. However, per my calculations it would be made up with 7 years or so.
chesley wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:42 am We opted for a Forester because of the overall driving experience, but I liked the RAV4 Hybrid design feature that has the electric motor providing the power to the rear wheels. It is likely an improvement to the Toyota AWD system, which has been not as good as Subaru's.
The Forester is on the list too. I really like the size and windows of the Forester. However, I just wonder if their CVT is as reliable as the RAV4 engine.
bubbadog wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:43 am Regarding hybrid versus gas only RAV4s, the dealers around me were asking and apparently getting MSRP for the hybrids RAV4s. They are a very popular vehicle. Discounts were much more common on the gas only versions. From a purely financial perspective, the OTD price difference between the gas only and hybrid versions will likely be significantly greater than the difference in their MSRPs. I personally would opt for the hybrid version. One common issue that has been frequently mentioned on online forums with the hybrid RAV4 is the inability for some owners to completely fill the fuel tank.
Thanks for the insight!
greg24 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:06 pm
bubbadog wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:43 am Regarding hybrid versus gas only RAV4s, the dealers around me were asking and apparently getting MSRP for the hybrids RAV4s. They are a very popular vehicle. Discounts were much more common on the gas only versions. From a purely financial perspective, the OTD price difference between the gas only and hybrid versions will likely be significantly greater than the difference in their MSRPs. I personally would opt for the hybrid version. One common issue that has been frequently mentioned on online forums with the hybrid RAV4 is the inability for some owners to completely fill the fuel tank.
We bought a 2020 hybrid in the fall. At that time, we had the same experience. The dealer was looking to make deals on the gas version but hard to budge on the hybrid. Sales dude said Toyota was producing 70% gas and 30% hybrid, but he thought it seemed like the demand was the opposite of that.

The hybrid version is great. We had rented the gas version previously. The hybrid version is a better car, more power and quieter.

The best economical outcome may be to find a really good deal on a gas version.
Thanks for the insight!
Sandi_k wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:28 pm I have a 2019 RAV4 hybrid Limited. My comments:

- The hybrid model (at least for 2019) had additional sound-deadening under the hood which leads to a quieter drive in comparison to the gas version.

- How much offroad driving are you doing? If not much, you might also consider the soon-to-be-debuted Toyota hybrid Venza. Looks much more Lexus-like, and much more CUV than SUV.

- The bells and whistles on the Ltd add up fast - so make sure to do an apples-to-apples comparison on the added features from the LX/LE/Ltd trim levels.
Not much off-roading currently, but I do want to get back into camping more. I did take a look at the Venza, but was a little disappointed to hear that it's not much larger than the RAV4. And the increased price of the Venza also turns me off a little as well. However, the Venza does look very slick!
adamthesmythe wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:58 pm I bought gas because (1) costs less (2) most of my driving is longer-distance, and highway (3) I think simpler is better (not that any car is simple these days) and (4) extra acceleration doesn't really matter, the way I drive.

I am seeing on the display (which I suppose is of questionable accuracy) 33+ mpg average with an AWD system. Substantially better than my previous, and smaller, crossover.
Wow that's great! Does the engine noise bother you at all?

Thank you for the great feedback, advice, and insight everyone. I greatly appreciate it. How many years of life could one expect from the hybrid battery before it would need replacement? I know the warranty is 10 years. From one poster, they have had their hybrid for 14 years with just maintenance.
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anthonyphamy
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by anthonyphamy »

DaftInvestor wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:41 pm I bought one about a year ago - went with gas as it was thousands cheaper (don't look at MSRP difference - look at what you will actually pay - gas version you can get around invoice; hard to negotiate the hybrid - up closer to MSRP). Pretty good gas mileage on the gas version - no need to go hybrid - I calculated it would never pay for itself. The little bit of extra power is irrelevant to me.
Thanks for the tip. I didn't consider the invoice price.
Flora
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by Flora »

Are you aware of the issue with the Rav4 Hybrid gas tank?

People report that they are not able to fill the tank with more than about 10 gallons of gas due to the saddle-shaped tank design so cannot achieve 550 miles on one tank.

https://www.rav4world.com/threads/have- ... nk.300662/
cusetownusa
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by cusetownusa »

anthonyphamy wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:43 pm
I thought so, however, looks like another poster, states that as long as it's close enough then only the pair needs to be replaced. The reason why I might consider leaving the car running over night is if I was camping in the back of my car :D

Not sure leaving a gas engine car, regardless of it being a hybrid, running all night..

Although, maybe you should consider a Tesla Model Y if this is something you like to do. They even have a Camp Mode i believe to keep the cabin of the car comfortable when sleeping in it over night.
DeskJumper
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by DeskJumper »

I highly recommend any Toyota hybrid. My daily driver is a 2007 Camry Hybrid, and it has been exceptionally reliable. At 102,000 miles, I am still on the original front brakes and they are not even near needing replacement. The electronic systems that run hybrid cars are typically quite robust, so you should get many years of trouble free service with less wear and tear maintenance than a non-hybrid car. I expect to eventually replace the hybrid battery at an independent hybrid shop for less than $2k, although for now it is working just fine. With the newest hybrids, you should never have to replace the battery for the life of the car. Toyota has over 20 years of R&D into their hybrid synergy drive tech, and they make them very well.

As others have said, in cold winter temps and in the heat of summer, mpg will suffer. Using the A/C and heat in ECO mode makes a measurable difference though. True also is that the hybrid version is usually faster than its non-hybrid counterpart. For 07-11 Camry's, for instance, the hybrid is a whole 1 second faster in the 0-60. So you can expect performance approaching V6 power with fuel economy much better than the standard 4 cyl.
KirklandCoug
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by KirklandCoug »

My wife has the hybrid RAV. She loves it. Great mileage. The gas tank issue is weird. They will likely do a recall.
azanon
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by azanon »

Easy choice - Gas.

There's a known issue that's still applicable where people aren't often able to fill up their hybrid RAV4 (current gen RAV4) by several gallons. Just google RAV4 hybrid fuel tank issue, or something similar to confirm. I wouldn't buy it!
bigskyguy
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by bigskyguy »

bob60014 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:03 am We recently purchased. Rav 4 Hybrid and as previously mentioned it is quiet, has plenty of acceleration (in Sport mode which lowers mpg) , and lots of comfort-enhancing features, especially with the Limited version. The Toyota hybrid technology is rock solid and we average 43 mpg without really trying while driving primarily in the ECO mode.

Someone asked about more power. This is the main difference between the gas and hybrid versions. The Rav 4 Hybrid has electric motors on the rear that engage when needed, giving it a horsepower boost without compromising mpg much. The gas version using strictly the I.C.E., doesn't have that extra punch.
We purchased a 2019 RAV4 Hybrid after having a Prius since 2010. Driving in town our mileage is 43mpg give or take, closer to 40mpg on the highway. We are both 5'10" and I weigh 175lbs and we find the vehicle exceptionally comfortable. The new RAV4s are a big improvement on prior versions. When we purchased ours, Honda had not yet released a hybrid CRV yet, which we would have considered. Must say that we have no regrets on our choice.
We live in western Montana, and do a lot of winter driving. The RAV4 is a very good vehicle in difficult driving conditions, using studded snow tires for the winter months.
My brother-in-law who lives close to us purchased a Tesla Model 3 and drives it as his first car. Personally, the RAV4 is a vastly more versatile vehicle. And while we are big believers in clean energy (our home is solar powered - we produce more than we use), the RAV4 Hybrid made more sense to us. Hybrid technology is now proven and reliable.
You won't go wrong either way.
Helo80
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by Helo80 »

cadreamer2015 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:44 pm I'm looking at the RAV4 Prime, but will wait until next year at the earliest. I've heard of dealers asking for and getting $5,000 over MSRP or more. They are only shipping 5,000 units to the entire US this year. Maybe 20,000 units in 2021.

One article I read was 5,000 units were planned for production BEFORE Toyota ran into supply issues with the lithium ion batteries.....

BTW -- Is your market getting the Rav4 Prime? Have you actually spoken to a local dealership about putting a deposit on a unit? I don't think every market is getting Rav4 Prime. If you're west coast, you can probably get it. Middle states, not so much.
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wander
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by wander »

Both are running on gas. One is gas only, the other one is gas + electric.
FoolStreet
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by FoolStreet »

02nz wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:01 pm
flyingaway wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:59 am
bubbadog wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:43 am Regarding hybrid versus gas only RAV4s, the dealers around me were asking and apparently getting MSRP for the hybrids RAV4s. They are a very popular vehicle. Discounts were much more common on the gas only versions. From a purely financial perspective, the OTD price difference between the gas only and hybrid versions will likely be significantly greater than the difference in their MSRPs. I personally would opt for the hybrid version. One common issue that has been frequently mentioned on online forums with the hybrid RAV4 is the inability for some owners to completely fill the fuel tank.
Do they have fuel tanks of the same size?
Apparently yes, both 14.5 gal.
Yes, this is a design flaw with the saddle-style bladder. I assume Toyota will fix it.
FoolStreet
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by FoolStreet »

flyingaway wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:39 am
FoolStreet wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:34 am
anthonyphamy wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:29 am Good morning Bogleheads,

I am planning to buy a new car this year and am between either a gas only or hybrid 2020 Toyota RAV4 base models. I would like a car that I could hold onto for about 15 years, with low cost of maintenance and good reliability. Based off my 2019 mileage, I calculated I should be able to make up the cost difference between the more costly hybrid version in approximately 7 years. Although recently with covid, I have been working remotely about 50% so my mileage has decreased.
The RAV4 hybrid is AWD, which comes with pros and cons. Pros being I could take it off road more comfortably, however a con will include if a tire needs to be replaced all tires need to be replaced. Although the hybrid drivetrain is more complicated, it does come with the 10-year warranty and I think it's based off the Consumer Reports approved Toyota Prius hybrid drivetrain. I would like to take this car camping and snowboarding, and I read a nice perk of the hybrid engine is that you can leave the AC/heat running over night with minimal gas consumption.
I have gotten a chance to rent the gas version for a weekend trip, which I enjoyed. I did feel slightly cramped, although I am coming from a larger car, and there were 4 people with a lot of luggage. I did note that the engine was a little loud, but nothing to complain about. I read the hybrid version had a more quiet engine which would be a perk.
Ultimately, I think I would be happy with either and now trying to choose the more economical choice.

I’d greatly welcome and appreciate any thoughts and advice.

Thank you very much in advance,
Anthony
I recommend the hybrid. More power and uses less gas. To me, no brainer. However, this assumes you have the financial position to buy a new car.
What did you mean more power? Did you mean more horsepower or more choice of power, electricity and gas?
I meant more horsepower. With the ICE, you only get the engine. With Hybrid, you get the output from the engine and the output from the battery. Nice extra pep and the added benefit of AWD -- you get the rear wheels powered by the battery for e-AWD.
mainiac
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by mainiac »

We bought a 2020 hybrid Rav4 XLE at the end of Dec and have 7,777 miles on it already (while working from home!). We got 48 mpg on our trip last weekend with an average of 43 mpg regularly. We did get a notice about the gas tank, but since 10 gallons last a while, it hasn't really had an negative effect on us.

The seats are not as comfortable as the seats were in our Sienna, but OK. Probably should have bought the leather seats as the upholstery has a odd feel and isn't that easy to clean.
LISD
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by LISD »

cadreamer2015 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:44 pm I'm looking at the RAV4 Prime, but will wait until next year at the earliest. I've heard of dealers asking for and getting $5,000 over MSRP or more. They are only shipping 5,000 units to the entire US this year. Maybe 20,000 units in 2021.
Even with 20,000 units, that is only about 15 vehicles for each dealer, for the entire year. Assuming they are equally distributed to all dealers. My point is, there will be few available even thru next year, and those will go for a premium. Not worth it.
Jack FFR1846
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

You should be aware of supply and demand and also do the math on gas savings. It does sound like hybrids are going to be in short supply so dealers are going to gouge you on price of one. Possibly going over MSRP. A few years ago, one of my coworkers thought the Accord Sport with a manual transmission was the best thing since sliced bread. He found one at a dealer. (one). The dealer stuck at MSRP for the manual one. It was end of year and the dealer had nearly 100 automatic Accords and offered any of them for $3000 off MSRP. If they're doing that with the hybrids, you may get to the end of the vehicle's life before you break even on gas savings.

If you want the extra power that the electric adds, then sure, it makes more sense. I've watched the Crosstrek hybrid this go around and it makes a significant difference in acceleration. But the price, to me, is absolutely not worth it. I paid $22k for our 19 manual crosstrek premium. The hybrid versions start at upper trim levels, so the price would be almost 50% more. It doesn't sound like they're doing that with the Rav4, but I'm not sure.
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imbogled
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by imbogled »

Just be aware that some states have additional yearly registration fees for hybrids and electric vehicles. I believe this needs to be factored into your future costs. There is an additional $100 yearly registration fee for hybrids and $200 fee for electric vehicles in Ohio.
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bob60014
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Re: Toyota RAV4 Gas vs Hybrid?

Post by bob60014 »

FoolStreet wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:03 pm
Yes, this is a design flaw with the saddle-style bladder. I assume Toyota will fix it.
The Rav 4 is saddle style, but it does not use a bladder tank. Those were in the Prius and eliminated in 2010, IIRC.
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