iMac Refresh in 2020?

Outer Marker · Post by **Outer Marker** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:23 pm

Any of you tech gurus know if a new iMac release is imminent in 2020? Internet rumors abound that it is.

My 2012 15" MacBook Pro has gotten debilitatingly slow. I've got two other smaller MacBook Airs and am looking something bigger to hold all my photos, documents, etc. that I don't need to port around. A desktop with a nice big display seems the way to go. And, I was surprised that Apple was offering $190 in trade for my old machine.

I went so far as to place an order for the new iMac 21 inch; the cheapest base model. But, then I started reading that the "spinning" hard drive on these is slow, nearly obsolete, and that a new iMac with SSD "flash" drive is on the way that is 8x faster and more reliable. Sounds like it is worth waiting for a few more months and canceling the pending order . . .?

typical.investor · Post by **typical.investor** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:47 pm

Outer Marker wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:23 pm Any of you tech gurus know if a new iMac release is imminent in 2020? Internet rumors abound that it is.

My 2012 15" MacBook Pro has gotten debilitatingly slow. I've got two other smaller MacBook Airs and am looking something bigger to hold all my photos, documents, etc. that I don't need to port around. A desktop with a nice big display seems the way to go. And, I was surprised that Apple was offering $190 in trade for my old machine.

I went so far as to place an order for the new iMac 21 inch; the cheapest base model. But, then I started reading that the "spinning" hard drive on these is slow, nearly obsolete, and that a new iMac with SSD "flash" drive is on the way that is 8x faster and more reliable. Sounds like it is worth waiting for a few more months and canceling the pending order . . .?

You can select an SSD on the base model for $200. It’s only 256GB though. Larger sizes cost more.

I’d suggest getting an external drive to back everything Up.

I might even look at booting from an external SSD and using the internal HDD as a backup disk.

https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/owc-env ... nderbolt-3

oxothuk · Post by **oxothuk** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:47 pm

Outer Marker wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:23 pm Any of you tech gurus know if a new iMac release is imminent in 2020? Internet rumors abound that it is.

My 2012 15" MacBook Pro has gotten debilitatingly slow. I've got two other smaller MacBook Airs and am looking something bigger to hold all my photos, documents, etc. that I don't need to port around. A desktop with a nice big display seems the way to go. And, I was surprised that Apple was offering $190 in trade for my old machine.

I went so far as to place an order for the new iMac 21 inch; the cheapest base model. But, then I started reading that the "spinning" hard drive on these is slow, nearly obsolete, and that a new iMac with SSD "flash" drive is on the way that is 8x faster and more reliable. Sounds like it is worth waiting for a few more months and canceling the pending order . . .?

Another option would be to get the Mac mini plus your own display. Mac mini has SSD as well as the T2 chip which iMacs lack.

It's pretty clear that any future Macs will be based on Apple's ARM processor rather than Intel. I would expect some growing pains with that transition.

aednichols · Post by **aednichols** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:59 pm

Is your 2012 MBP the Retina model or the previous design? The previous design could take an SSD and RAM upgrade to tide you over until the ARM iMac of your dreams is available.

That said, if you have the budget and your need is now, buy an SSD iMac today.

randomguy · Post by **randomguy** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:01 pm

oxothuk wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:47 pm
Another option would be to get the Mac mini plus your own display. Mac mini has SSD as well as the T2 chip which iMacs lack.

It's pretty clear that any future Macs will be based on Apple's ARM processor rather than Intel. I would expect some growing pains with that transition.

The 68k to PPC and PPC to intel transitions were both pretty seamless for most users. If I plan on keeping my computer 3+ years, I would be hesitant to buy just about any consumer level mac these days. I would try to gut it out another 6 months.

I wouldn't touch a machine without an SSD these days. If you want some external spinning drive to hold your photos that is fine.But for apps and the rest of your core, you want an SSD. In theory you can buy a 512gb SSD blade for under 100 bucks and install it yourself but on imacs that is a bit of a touchy procedure.

Bogle7 · Post by **Bogle7** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:35 pm

As a nerd who follows this stuff daily, I say wait—if you can.
If you have to buy this afternoon, then look at refurbished iMacs from Apple.

I am sitting here with my 5+ year-old iMac and over $3000 in my computer fund.
I am ready to buy a new iMac. Have been ready for months.
I am planning to buy the last Intel-CPU model for myself.
Then, in a year, buy a new ARM-CPU model for my wife.

I hate waiting.

"'iPhone 12' event Sept. 8 with 'Apple Glass' & Apple Silicon Mac reveal on Oct. 27, says leaker"
https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/07 ... ays-leaker

"Dubious Twitter leakers fuel iMac update rumors for Monday [27JUL2020] launch"
https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/07 ... day-launch

"Imminent iMac launch rumors doubted by prominent leaker"
https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/07 ... ent-leaker

Outer Marker · Post by **Outer Marker** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:43 pm

Thanks for the advice!

Sounds like waiting is the thing to do. I'm canceling the order this afternoon until the new flash drive model appears. With 4 computers in the house, plus everything backed up on an external hard drive, there is no rush to replace. My old MacBook pro still fires up, and I rarely have need to access my photo library from 2004. I like the idea of having a new, fast machine with everything there in one place and readily accessable. It can definately wait a few months, and hopefully the old machine will keep ticking so I can still get the trade in credit.

Fclevz · Post by **Fclevz** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:02 pm

According to the MacRumors Buying Guide, they also say Don't Buy Now, Updates Soon.

https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#iMac

One interesting rumor is much smaller bezels on the 21.5 inch model, making it actually 24 inches.

22twain · Post by **22twain** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:05 pm

Outer Marker wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:23 pm Any of you tech gurus know if a new iMac release is imminent in 2020? Internet rumors abound that it is.

All I've seen are the same rumors that you've probably seen: maybe refreshed iMacs with newer-generation Intel chips Real Soon Now (next month?), and maybe one new iMac and MacBook with the new Apple Silicon chips by the end of the year, with the other models transitioning to the new chips during the following year or so.

I had an ancient desktop Mac myself (even older than your MacBook Pro). I followed the rumors swirling around the World Wide Developers Conference (WWDC) about a month ago, and ended up ordering a new 27" iMac with an SSD upgrade anyway. It turned out to be a good decision regardless of the rumors, because the old Mac died a few days before the new one arrived last week.

If my old Mac had been more recent, say 2015-16, I might well have waited for the new models.

rich126 · Post by **rich126** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:11 pm

The type of stuff most people do, they really wouldn't notice the difference between a ssd and a regular hd except maybe for the noise. Higher end stuff like video would be another story. I got a 27" imac late in 2018 and then added 32Gb memory to it since I was doing VMs and they need memory.

2012 is getting old. Supposedly some or all of their computers will be moving from Intel to ARM cpus. Not sure how that will affect things.

02nz · Post by **02nz** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:13 pm

rich126 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:11 pm The type of stuff most people do, they really wouldn't notice the difference between a ssd and a regular hd except maybe for the noise. Higher end stuff like video would be another story.

This could not be more wrong. The type of stuff most people do, and specifically the parts that take the longest - starting the computer, putting into sleep/hibernate, starting up programs - benefit most from an SSD. A typical computer with HDD takes maybe a minute to start up; with an SSD, 10-20 seconds.

Side by side, a computer with a dual-core processor from 2012 and an SSD will feel much more responsive for everyday tasks than one from 2020 with an 8-core CPU and an HDD.

aednichols · Post by **aednichols** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:03 pm

Agree with previous poster, OP’s decision to cancel the HDD iMac order is correct no question.

ncbill · Post by **ncbill** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:53 pm

Or OP could buy the base iMac and boot from a SSD in an external USB case.

USB 3.0 is plenty fast to run normal apps (browser, office apps) from an external SSD.

JaneyLH · Post by **JaneyLH** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:57 pm

rich126 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:11 pm The type of stuff most people do, they really wouldn't notice the difference between a ssd and a regular hd except maybe for the noise. Higher end stuff like video would be another story. I got a 27" imac late in 2018 and then added 32Gb memory to it since I was doing VMs and they need memory.

It is a HUGE difference. I was about to buy a new computer but decided to replace the hard drive with an SSD. I went for a 2 TB drive. Cost $500 with installation, file restoration, and general tune-up. It's better than new -- blazingly fast! I did this because of another thread I read here on this forum where people talked about what a huge upgrade it was!

Outer Marker · Post by **Outer Marker** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:58 pm

ncbill wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:53 pm Or OP could buy the base iMac and boot from a SSD in an external USB case.

USB 3.0 is plenty fast to run normal apps (browser, office apps) from an external SSD.

Thanks! I'm not a computer guy. I just want plug-and-play in one machine with max speed and reliability. No external drives or other things. The most I would want to do is hook up an external drive every month to make sure no catestrophic data loss.

billjohnson · Post by **billjohnson** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:27 pm

261 page thread on this exact question. Probably just read the original post & go straight to page 261 for latest info/guesses...

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/wi ... 0.2184301/

typical.investor · Post by **typical.investor** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:49 pm

Outer Marker wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:58 pm
ncbill wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:53 pm Or OP could buy the base iMac and boot from a SSD in an external USB case.

USB 3.0 is plenty fast to run normal apps (browser, office apps) from an external SSD.
Thanks! I'm not a computer guy. I just want plug-and-play in one machine with max speed and reliability. No external drives or other things. The most I would want to do is hook up an external drive every month to make sure no catestrophic data loss.

Do you use time machine for backups? It’s easy and will schedule automatically.

Honestly, the external SSD is a good suggestion cost wise. And you could use the internal HDD as you backup disk.

The following is a how to “Install on external SSD”, and was written as many will use this to try out the next version Big Sur to see if it affects anything before upgrading:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.macwor ... 666/%3Famp

Well, that’s fun to do for me ...

rkhusky · Post by **rkhusky** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:44 pm

Local stores are offering discounts on current models.

rich126 · Post by **rich126** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:06 pm

02nz wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:13 pm
rich126 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:11 pm The type of stuff most people do, they really wouldn't notice the difference between a ssd and a regular hd except maybe for the noise. Higher end stuff like video would be another story.
This could not be more wrong. The type of stuff most people do, and specifically the parts that take the longest - starting the computer, putting into sleep/hibernate, starting up programs - benefit most from an SSD. A typical computer with HDD takes maybe a minute to start up; with an SSD, 10-20 seconds.

Side by side, a computer with a dual-core processor from 2012 and an SSD will feel much more responsive for everyday tasks than one from 2020 with an 8-core CPU and an HDD.

40 seconds is not huge.

kjvmartin · Post by **kjvmartin** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:24 pm

I like a MacBook and buying a QHD or 4K Monitor.

Use a USB-C enabled monitor which will both carry the video feed and keep your laptop powered. The monitor has additional USB ports for peripherals and dongles. It's very elegant if you manage the cables right.

I don't see the appeal of an iMac anymore. Check out the i5 MacBook Air at Costco with a 512gb SSD under $1000. Wait for a sale on a USB-C Monitor, there are many. MicroCenter is your friend. Dell refurbished works.

02nz · Post by **02nz** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:33 pm

rich126 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:06 pm
02nz wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:13 pm
rich126 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:11 pm The type of stuff most people do, they really wouldn't notice the difference between a ssd and a regular hd except maybe for the noise. Higher end stuff like video would be another story.
This could not be more wrong. The type of stuff most people do, and specifically the parts that take the longest - starting the computer, putting into sleep/hibernate, starting up programs - benefit most from an SSD. A typical computer with HDD takes maybe a minute to start up; with an SSD, 10-20 seconds.

Side by side, a computer with a dual-core processor from 2012 and an SSD will feel much more responsive for everyday tasks than one from 2020 with an 8-core CPU and an HDD.
40 seconds is not huge.

3x to 6x faster is HUGE.

TravelGeek · Post by **TravelGeek** » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:01 am

rich126 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:06 pm
40 seconds is not huge.

Life is short.

Granted, boot time isn’t the best argument - I rarely reboot my machine (MBP), but in general, every disk operation is significantly faster. Saving data, launching apps, swapping, ...

In the year 2020 I would not use spinning disks for anything but an large external backup drive or NAS.

Outer Marker · Post by **Outer Marker** » Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:07 am

TravelGeek wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:01 am In the year 2020 I would not use spinning disks for anything but an large external backup drive or NAS.

I agree with this. There are three main reasons for buying a desktop replacement. 1) fast, reliable storage for all of my photos and docs; 2) nice big display; 3) blazing fast speed I am not getting on my existing laptops.

I think anything with a spinning drive is not going to achieve those objectives. Gonna wait on the new iMac!

DSInvestor · Post by **DSInvestor** » Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:16 am

Outer Marker wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:23 pm My 2012 15" MacBook Pro has gotten debilitatingly slow. I've got two other smaller MacBook Airs and am looking something bigger to hold all my photos, documents, etc. that I don't need to port around. A desktop with a nice big display seems the way to go. And, I was surprised that Apple was offering $190 in trade for my old machine.

I have a mid 2012 MacBook Pro non-retina but I have upgraded the RAM from 4GB to 16GB and the 500GB HD to 1TB SSD. With the upgrades, this mac has no performance issues with the latest version of MacOS and apps. I am super pleased with it. If your mac is the 15 inch version of what I have, the RAM and HD can be upgraded as well. 1TB SSD is around $100. RAM is cheap as well (<$100 for 16GB).

Apple page on RAM upgrade/installation:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201165

OWC Macbook 15 SSD upgrade:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIgA03GOiUw

To clone my HD to SSD, I purchased a USB to SATA adapter to connect the new SSD to the USB port on the mac. Then I used Carbon Copy Cloner to clone the HD to the SSD. Once clone is completed, I opened up the mac following the video and installed the SSD into it. Huge performance increase!

Outer Marker · Post by **Outer Marker** » Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:28 am

DSInvestor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:16 am I have a mid 2012 MacBook Pro non-retina but I have upgraded the RAM from 4GB to 16GB and the 500GB HD to 1TB SSD. With the upgrades, this mac has no performance issues with the latest version of MacOS and apps. I am super pleased with it. If your mac is the 15 inch version of what I have, the RAM and HD can be upgraded as well. 1TB SSD is around $100. RAM is cheap as well (<$100 for 16GB). . .

To clone my HD to SSD, I purchased a USB to SATA adapter to connect the new SSD to the USB port on the mac. Then I used Carbon Copy Cloner to clone the HD to the SSD. Once clone is completed, I opened up the mac following the video and installed the SSD into it. Huge performance increase!

If I understood tech better this sounds like a great solution. The problem is, my computer seems to just get slower and slower over time for no obvious reason. If it were as fast as the day I bought it, I'd be happy. Its been that way with every computer I've owned. I do the software updates, security scans, etc. But the only thing that seems to really fix it is a new machine.

DSInvestor · Post by **DSInvestor** » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:42 am

It is a super easy upgrade. If you don't want to do it yourself, maybe buy the parts and ask a computer shop or Bestbuy geek squad to do it for you.

FWIW, I have owned my MacBook pro since 2014 and it has not really degraded in performance even as I upgrade to the new macOS every year but the computer was upgraded right from the start. Had I kept the initial configuration of 4GB RAM and 500GB HD, it would not have held up nearly as well. There is no better bang for the buck at around $100-200 plus labor to upgrade your Mac, if it is upgradeable.

If you're going to buy any Mac today, I'd suggest configuring to give you some room for future OS upgrades. Maybe select more RAM (16GB) and larger SSD. 27 inch iMacs have user upgradeable RAM so you can upgrade later (super easy). 21.5 inch iMacs do not have user upgradeable RAM so you kinda have to pick the RAM. I'd suggest 16GB RAM and any SSD. I'd avoid any computer that comes with only a hard drive.

Apple recently announced that they are moving to a new hardware platform for macs. It is OK to buy a new intel based Mac today as Apple will continue to support the intel platform for many years. However, if you decide to spend a little to upgrade your existing mac, that may buy you a little time and when you're for your next mac, you can be one of the newer models on the new hardware platform.

Cheez-It Guy · Post by **Cheez-It Guy** » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:55 am

Still using an iMac from 2006 quite capably. Other iMac is from 2011 or 2012, I think.

PoultryMan · Post by **PoultryMan** » Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:15 pm

I was ready to buy a new iMac to replace
My 2012 unit. Spent $150 and swapped hard drives to a SSD. Boot time went from 5 minutes to 7 seconds.

Everything is blazing fast now.

It’s unreal try it

gronkman · Post by **gronkman** » Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:24 pm

Outer Marker wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:28 am
DSInvestor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:16 am I have a mid 2012 MacBook Pro non-retina but I have upgraded the RAM from 4GB to 16GB and the 500GB HD to 1TB SSD. With the upgrades, this mac has no performance issues with the latest version of MacOS and apps. I am super pleased with it. If your mac is the 15 inch version of what I have, the RAM and HD can be upgraded as well. 1TB SSD is around $100. RAM is cheap as well (<$100 for 16GB). . .

To clone my HD to SSD, I purchased a USB to SATA adapter to connect the new SSD to the USB port on the mac. Then I used Carbon Copy Cloner to clone the HD to the SSD. Once clone is completed, I opened up the mac following the video and installed the SSD into it. Huge performance increase!
If I understood tech better this sounds like a great solution. The problem is, my computer seems to just get slower and slower over time for no obvious reason. If it were as fast as the day I bought it, I'd be happy. Its been that way with every computer I've owned. I do the software updates, security scans, etc. But the only thing that seems to really fix it is a new machine.

If you are handy and comfortable with screwdriving etc., these upgrades are no brainers. Don’t forget to upgrade your RAM in addition to the SSD, getting to 8-16GB is probably enough. These should suffice for most non-intensive tasks; if you are doing any video editing or photo manipulation, you may need to upgrade the machine itself.

Sourc3 · Post by **Sourc3** » Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:36 pm

Yes there will be a refresh to CPUs but nobody knows if the desktops will get that CPU right away. Apple will be selling Intel CPU powered machines for a while. Also, how is the new CPU going to help you?

You mentioned you want more storage and a big screen. Just get a refurbished iMac with an SSD (with the largest size you can afford). Life is short to spend time on trying to save a few hundred bucks on something you’ll likely use for 5-6 years for almost every day.

rkhusky · Post by **rkhusky** » Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:29 pm

Cheez-It Guy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:55 am Still using an iMac from 2006 quite capably. Other iMac is from 2011 or 2012, I think.

Our 2010 iMac just bit the dust. Too bad since the newer ones won't run all the kids' games. Have a 2015 iMac to replace it with.

palanzo · Post by **palanzo** » Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:39 pm

rich126 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:11 pm The type of stuff most people do, they really wouldn't notice the difference between a ssd and a regular hd except maybe for the noise. Higher end stuff like video would be another story. I got a 27" imac late in 2018 and then added 32Gb memory to it since I was doing VMs and they need memory.

2012 is getting old. Supposedly some or all of their computers will be moving from Intel to ARM cpus. Not sure how that will affect things.

This is simply not true.

palanzo · Post by **palanzo** » Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:43 pm

kjvmartin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:24 pm I like a MacBook and buying a QHD or 4K Monitor.

Use a USB-C enabled monitor which will both carry the video feed and keep your laptop powered. The monitor has additional USB ports for peripherals and dongles. It's very elegant if you manage the cables right.

I don't see the appeal of an iMac anymore. Check out the i5 MacBook Air at Costco with a 512gb SSD under $1000. Wait for a sale on a USB-C Monitor, there are many. MicroCenter is your friend. Dell refurbished works.

Agreed. I would say that the LG UltraFine Displays are much higher quality than many other monitors, if image quality is important to you.

palanzo · Post by **palanzo** » Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:45 pm

PoultryMan wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:15 pm I was ready to buy a new iMac to replace
My 2012 unit. Spent $150 and swapped hard drives to a SSD. Boot time went from 5 minutes to 7 seconds.

Everything is blazing fast now.

It’s unreal try it

4 mins and 53 secs is not huge

anoop · Post by **anoop** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:44 am

https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/imac/ ... r_the_imac

"Rumors out of Apple's supply chain suggest Apple is working on a 23-inch iMac that's set to launch in the second half of 2020, so it looks like the rumored WWDC update may have accurately referred to an upcoming redesign but was incorrect on the timing. The 23-inch iMac could be the same size as the current 21-inch iMac, but with reduced bezels.

Just ahead of WWDC, DigiTimes said that new iMacs will be released in the second half of 2020, which had also cast some doubt on the WWDC timing.

A 24-inch Mac with an all new form factor will be one of the first Macs to get an Apple-designed Arm-based chip, according to Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo. Prior to when the Arm-based iMac launches, Apple will refresh the existing Intel iMac in the third quarter of 2020."

boomer_techie · Post by **boomer_techie** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:46 am

anoop wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:44 am https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/imac/ ... r_the_imac

"Rumors out of Apple's supply chain ...

A different rumor from the same site has Apple releasing new iMacs in August. There is evidence that suggest August 18th.

Outer Marker · Post by **Outer Marker** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:27 am

Thanks for all the expert advice. Will continue to hang on and wait for the new machine. While I'm tempted by the $100 upgrade of my MacBook Pro, I'm skeptical of the homegrown fix, and that there may be hidden issues that will continue to crop up. It crashes a lot more and shows the spinning beachball a lot more than when it was new. The hard drive is only a little more than half full, and its got the same 8MB RAM it always had, so I'm at a loss to explain the performance degredation. Time for a fresh clean slate.

CycloRista · Post by **CycloRista** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:26 am

I would suggest:

Backing up all the data (using Carbon Copy Cloner or Super Duper)
Install an all-flash-based hard drive (Samsung 850 or above are like greased lightning)
Consider purchasing 16 GB of RAM (probably $50 or less).
Install the original hard drive in an external enclosure
Boot up macOS on your old drive
Install Mojave (or earlier macOS that you are currently running) on the new hard drive
Boot up on the new hard drive
Run user migration assistant and import all of your data from the old hard drive

High Sierra is my preference though support for updates will end later this year so you may want to consider Mojave. Mainly because it is the last release that does sub-pixel font smoothing the "old and much better way" (in my opinion).

The current release (Catalina) has sufficient resource requirements that may negatively impact the performance of your 2012 system so I'd steer clear of it. If you choose to go with Catalina, check the supported systems information on Apple's site to make sure your model is on it.

I've used (the sort of "flat") iMac's at home since 2006 and went to a laptop for portability and convenience when traveling. I also have two older mini's at home that run other things...

DiamondplateDave · Post by **DiamondplateDave** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:17 am

(disclaimer: Mac tech who works at an Apple reseller)
Strongly concur with the folks who recommend against getting a mechanical hard drive. Agree with your decision to cancel the new iMac and wait, at least as far as getting one with an SSD. No strong feelings either way about waiting for new models/processors.

I have...5...iMacs. All with mechanical HDs except a 2009 27" that the HD failed and I put in a 256GB SSD from Macsales.com. All of them are running Mojave or the latest version they support; none have Catalina at this point. All have at least 8GB of RAM, except possibly the 2008 21", which is on loan to a friend. With the exception of the 2008, all perform quite well. My "main" iMac is a late 2013 27" iMac with 24GB RAM, and I'm typing this on a Late 2013 21" iMac with 8GB RAM.

Anyhow, I don't see any reason your 2012 Macbook Pro should not run well. I would also recommend you follow the instructions people gave to either re-install Mac OS or to replace the mechanical HD with an SSD.
You can boot your MBP to Apple diagnostics and see if there is anything wrong. You could also install Mac OS on an external drive and try running off that to see if the crashing stops. It is possible that the hardware is failing and causing the crashing, but generally a hardware failure other than a dying hard drive doesn't cause the machine to run slowly.

Outer Marker · Post by **Outer Marker** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:51 am

DiamondplateDave wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:17 am Anyhow, I don't see any reason your 2012 Macbook Pro should not run well. I would also recommend you follow the instructions people gave to either re-install Mac OS or to replace the mechanical HD with an SSD.
You can boot your MBP to Apple diagnostics and see if there is anything wrong. You could also install Mac OS on an external drive and try running off that to see if the crashing stops. It is possible that the hardware is failing and causing the crashing, but generally a hardware failure other than a dying hard drive doesn't cause the machine to run slowly.

Too much work, and it won't safisfy that "new computer itch" The battery is also pretty much shot and would need to be replaced. Between that, the other upgrades, and my questionable tech skills, just not worth it. Apple is willing to give me $190 in trade, which I'm happy to apply to a new machine. Hopefully won't be too long a wait!

SmileyFace · Post by **SmileyFace** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:00 am

You definitely should not be buying a computer without an SSD as the primary drive in this day and age.
If you want to stick with Apple - I would wait until the new release (finally catching them up to others).
If you want to save some quite a bit of money and get newer technology look at alternatives to Apple.

Outer Marker · Post by **Outer Marker** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:27 am

DaftInvestor wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:00 am If you want to stick with Apple - I would wait until the new release (finally catching them up to others).
If you want to save some quite a bit of money and get newer technology look at alternatives to Apple.

Oh, I'm definately sticking with Apple. Steve Jobs, RIP, set the hook firmly in our house! Between me and the girls, I've lost track of how many apple devices we have lying around. iCloud was very clever in syching them all up. Its magic.

boomer_techie · Post by **boomer_techie** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:30 am

Outer Marker wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:27 am The hard drive is only a little more than half full, and its got the same 8MB RAM it always had, so I'm at a loss to explain the performance degredation.

Have you upgraded to a recent MacOS? That can explain the performance degradation:

Apple's new file system, APFS, was designed for SSD's. Because there's no penalty for randomly accessing sectors on an SSD, APFS makes no effort to keep certain data all together. On the other hand, Apple's older HFS+ was designed with a mindset of rotating magnetic media. Its design keeps all the directory data together in the same part of the disk.

As of Mohave, Apple automatically converted HFS+ volumes into APFS volumes. Consequently, the performance of disk heavy operations suffers.

aednichols · Post by **aednichols** » Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:26 am

This year's iMac refresh has just landed: https://www.apple.com/imac/

All models now with SSD storage. Finally!

02nz · Post by **02nz** » Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:31 am

aednichols wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:26 am This year's iMac refresh has just landed: https://www.apple.com/imac/

All models now with SSD storage. Finally!

No ARM model yet. And the entry-level 21.5 incher still has a dual-core CPU, which is ridiculous in this day and age (and at the $1100 price point). Apple's phones and tablets are good values in some cases. The computers, not so much.

DSInvestor · Post by **DSInvestor** » Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:01 am

aednichols wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:26 am This year's iMac refresh has just landed: https://www.apple.com/imac/

All models now with SSD storage. Finally!

The new 27 inch iMacs have user accessible RAM slots so RAM upgrades in the future are possible and easy. Just make sure you select a model with the right size SSD.

illumination · Post by **illumination** » Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:26 am

I'm a mac devotee, but I absolutely hate how they have made the hard drives "fixed" instead of expandable. Same with their laptops. It's all to sell their cloud services and charge the consumer more.

I'm willing to pay the "Apple tax" but I don't like a machine I can't ever upgrade. And what Apple charges for larger hard drives is outrageous.

I am completely done with anything but solid state drives, except for things like backup drives as it's too cost prohibitive for really large ones. The speed and reliability of SSD is too great to get anything else.

Outer Marker · Post by **Outer Marker** » Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:32 am

aednichols wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:26 am This year's iMac refresh has just landed: https://www.apple.com/imac/

All models now with SSD storage. Finally!

Sadly, not quite

The base model, which is all I wanted, comes with a small 256GB SSD. That's not enough to hold all my files. You can get a 1TB "fusion" drive as free option on the base model, but larger SSD's are not even offered. I have to upgrade to a higher level processor, and the 1TB add on is another $400, so now I'm looking at an $1,800 machine vs. $1,100.

C'mon Apple. I'm willing to pay a premium for the product, but this feels like extortion considering how cheaply you can buy SSD storage on the aftermarket.

typical.investor · Post by **typical.investor** » Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:48 am

Outer Marker wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:32 am
aednichols wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:26 am This year's iMac refresh has just landed: https://www.apple.com/imac/

All models now with SSD storage. Finally!
Sadly, not quite

The base model, which is all I wanted, comes with a small 256GB SSD. That's not enough to hold all my files. You can get a 1TB "fusion" drive as free option on the base model, but larger SSD's are not even offered. I have to upgrade to a higher level processor, and the 1TB add on is another $400, so now I'm looking at an $1,800 machine vs. $1,100.

C'mon Apple. I'm willing to pay a premium for the product, but this feels like extortion considering how cheaply you can buy SSD storage on the aftermarket.

Again, I suggest a large external drive (or two for safety) and backing up all your computers to that drive.

illumination · Post by **illumination** » Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:52 am

Outer Marker wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:32 am
aednichols wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:26 am This year's iMac refresh has just landed: https://www.apple.com/imac/

All models now with SSD storage. Finally!

C'mon Apple. I'm willing to pay a premium for the product, but this feels like extortion considering how cheaply you can buy SSD storage on the aftermarket.

Agreed, a consumer can buy a 1TB solid state drive for around $100. 256gb for a 2020 desktop computer hard drive is an absolute joke, it's like a $25 thumb drive. People will pay more for Apple, but it should always be class leading hardware.

You just have to get a solid state external drive or pay Apple's insane prices for a large internal drive to get "modern" specs on a computer.