We plan to purchase our first car this summer (city people leaving for the suburbs). We have narrowed it down to:
2020 Lexus RX350
2020 Volvo XC90 - T5 Momentum, 7 seater
As background, we have 2 kids (3 and 1) and there is a good chance we will have a third in the next 2-3 years. That said, this car has the flexibility to either be our primary family vehicle (Volvo) or become a second car at some point in the future (Lexus). We will pay cash (unless we finance at 0%) and keep for 7-10 years.
FYI - XC90 is more of interest for cargo space than for its 3rd row. We make frequent 4-5 hour trips with 2 carseats, luggage, a large stroller and golf clubs. (We have family with the XC60 and it's just too small for what we are looking for right now and for the foreseeable future.)
We have done some research ourselves but would love some real world input from others on a few items:
1) Did you consider both of these vehicles and choose one for a particular reason?
2) Is Lexus the obvious choice for reliability, resale value, total cost of ownership? I think, all things equal, I like the Volvo better but can't shake the feeling that it is much more likely to be an expensive headache (so much so that I might even consider leasing it just to avoid owning it past the first few years...)
3) We don't need this car to be fully loaded but we will probably want a few options added to a base model - is one more likely than the other to get away from us in price if that's the case?
4) We are leaning towards purchasing new but might consider CPO if it's an obvious choice with either model so would welcome thoughts on that as well.
5) Are current deals/specials particularly good on either model? For example, I know Volvo is doing 60-month 0% financing.
Once the warranty is up, the Lexus has the reliability of a Toyota with the prestige of a Lexus. The Volvo has the reliability and prestige of a Volvo with repairs costs of a Mercedes.
If you are going to keep it 10 years get the Lexus.
The Volvo looks fantastic, in 2017 when we were shopping we fell in love with the looks. But it was a brand new platform, with a brand new engine, that was a turbo and supercharged 4cl in that big chassis.
We ended up with a pilot and cash left in our pocket.
Be sure to get car insurance quotes before you buy. They can vary for different models more than you might think and you don't want to have any surprises.
I also vaguely recall people posting about very high car insurance rates when they went to get car insurance for the first time without previously owning a car, like when they returned from living overseas.
You should also find out how much your umbrella policy will cost once you own a car. If you fall into some high risk rating then it could go up a lot too.
You might get lucky, but if your insurance would be high with those cars it might make sense to consider driving a less expensive car for a few years until you can get better insurance rates.
Volvo has lower average reliability than Lexus. For me there's nothing in the machine that warrants that since generally Lexus tend to be beautiful and well made cars above and beyond what Volvo makes anyway.
once you drive the new toyota highlander limited - able to get for 43k with typical discount, you will forget about both of those. if you want a luxury car that is...
For reliability hands down go with the Lexus, have a RX350 in the driveway with 200,000+ miles and wouldn't be afraid to drive it across the country.
We drove Volvo 240's for years until they stopped making them, bought an XC70 and that was the worst car I have ever owned for reliability.
Sweet spot for Lexus value, IMHO, is 5-6 years (12K or less usage per year), non CPO, with perfect service history (which most will have, Lexus dealer should be able to easily print, and will be more accurate than Carfax). Since there is a plethora out there, you can easily find some right after a major service that a dealer has done to be able to put on the lot, I.E. Tires, brakes...etc, so much the better, it will be similar to new as far as service costs going forward.
Owned a 2009 RX350, traded it for a 2010 RX350 (only 28,000 miles) three years ago. Will trade-in the 2010 next year and considered Volvo for one reason. The option to pick-up your vehicle in Gothenburg and drive around Europe for a few weeks. COVID has put a damper on the plan.
If you do have a 3rd child, a minivan would be the best choice. 3 row SUVs are not as practical as a minivan. Or alternatively try to do 3 across in a 2 row SUV.
Both will be expensive to maintain. The Lexus will have better reliability, but service at the Lexus dealer will be expensive. They are just expensive cars to maintain.
I would drive a nicely loaded Toyota Highlander as a comparison vehicle. It won't have the prestige label but will be cheaper to maintain.
"We are here to provoke thoughtfulness, not agree with you." Unknown Boglehead
Picasso wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:43 pm
2009 Lexus RX with 165,xxx miles. We’ll be purchasing another RX in 1-2 years as our second vehicle.
I can’t imagine a more reliable and useful vehicle.
We have a 2004 Rx330 bought new with 165K miles. Not one problem to date (hopefully I didn't jinx myself)....
2000 RX300, 230K miles, towed boat with it. Over the last 5 years, minor issues of expected wear, I.E. alternator, tires, brakes. Everything still works, yes the headlights are yellowed. I think it will actually go for 10-15 more years, I still see daily drivers for late 80s, early 90s Toyotas on the road. So yeah, the big problem with Toyota and Lexus is that they last way too long and become quite boring.
Always remember, that nothing starts with n and ends with g.
My wife has an '18 XC90 as her daily driver. It's only been 2 years but we love it so far. The cargo space is perfect for our needs, and the third row is actually usable for adults (for short distances). I knew about potential reliability issues going in, so we purchased a long-term warranty. This is our first European car, so time will tell if this experience sours or sweetens our view on future European car purchases
Obviously you are going to want to purchase the Lexus if you care more about reliability. Personally we didn't consider the RX350 as the three-row version of that model was widely panned by critics (in terms of third row space).
Last edited by Go Blue 99 on Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Safer. Better, more comfortable seats. Great looks without a huge grill. Better CPO warranty. Better tech too.
We have had 3 kids with Volvos (2 XC60 and 1 S60). None of the reputed reliability issues other than a phantom battery drain if you didn’t subscribe to SIRIUS which was eventually fixed with a software download.
I like the seats better than our Range Rover, Mercedes, Porsche, and (it hurts to say it) Tesla. Best.
I have had both. While I really liked my Volvo, the cost of general maintenance and repairs was quite expensive.
I love my Lexus and for similar maintenance items, I am paying less than I did with my Volvo. I think my Lexus is quieter also.
Jules
Same choice in 2016, but scared off by repair concerns and went with the RX. Turns out to have been the right decision as 2016 was the new model year and had more initial problems. It seems they've worked out some of the initial issues. Long term ownership is still a concern.
We own a 2016 XC90, the first year of the new model. We have been very happy with the car. Though I bet the Lexus is probably lower maintenance -- the Volvo has had plenty of software-related weirdness.
I drove a Lexus sedan for 20 years -- excellent reliability. I chose it for the smooth, quiet ride -- I was a new Mom. I promised my infant son that he would drive it when he was old enough -- he got his license at age 19 and drove the Lexus for one year before he totaled it when he hit a post, while backing out in a parking garage.
The first car I ever purchased was a Volvo, but that was in the early 70's when the the cars were made in Sweden. I recently tried out a Volvo S60 and sat in the XC60. Beautiful exterior and interior. And I like the PHEV option. I sat in the rear seat of the Volvo S60 on my son's test drive -- I found the ride in the back seat to be surprisingly bumpy.
DW drove a Lexus 350 for 10+ years. We would likely have bought another Rx to replace it, but she hates the front grill. Now own a 2020 XC60. She drove a 2020 Rx 350 and the XC60, like the XC60 much better, but clearly that is an individual taste item. So far we really like the XC60, but have not owned it long enough to comment on reliability. Another data point for you - my neighbor leased a Rx 350L a year ago - pretty unhappy. Says 3rd row seats are worthless, so you are paying for extra cargo area, not for functional 3rd row seats. Has had two relatively major problems with the car, very atypical for Lexus, both resolved by the dealership, but still a pain for him to deal with.
I've had 4 Volvos (including current one) and one Lexus. I really like Volvos but objectively would have to recommend the Lexus for reliability based on my experience. (Never had either an XC-90 or an RX-300/350).
steadyeddie8 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:04 pmFYI - XC90 is more of interest for cargo space than for its 3rd row. We make frequent 4-5 hour trips with 2 carseats, luggage, a large stroller and golf clubs. (We have family with the XC60 and it's just too small for what we are looking for right now and for the foreseeable future.)
I dislike the idea of carrying around extra 100 or 200 pounds weight for 100k+ that aren't being used (wasted gas), not to mention all that wasted space, but that's the (negative) value proposition of some choices. And if you lack space, you'll be less able to overpack. But if you have the need to take everything, nothing compares to Suburban class.
The typical sized SUVs like CRV or CX5 are similar to the XC60 and half a size up is the Passport and Santa Fe that are nice offerings. Are there others? Unfortunately, pricing and value tends to push folks to the next size up, whether or not there is need.
gtd98765 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:16 pm
I would suggest reading descriptions of both at ConsumerReports.org. Costs $40/yr but for a $40k expense that seems like a reasonable deal.
We get free access to ConsumerReports.com through our local library. Might be worth looking into.
HeartinAK wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:41 am
I have had both. While I really liked my Volvo, the cost of general maintenance and repairs was quite expensive.
I love my Lexus and for similar maintenance items, I am paying less than I did with my Volvo. I think my Lexus is quieter also.
Jules
We had two Volvo sedans, separated by probably 10 model years, and both of them required (among other less expensive repairs) single $5,000+ repairs shortly after 100,000 miles. On a Lexus, 100,000 miles is essentially a Tuesday morning, just another day. Perhaps Volvo has improved, but I'll never buy one again.
I know nothing about the Lexus other than what I read in reviews and from friends who have owned them. Speaking from experience with Volvos, having owned two, I would stick with the Lexus for reliability and TCO. Once you are out of warranty with the Volvo, you will be paying a premium for repairs (most likely) and parts (definitely).
We have owned 100,000+ mile, 10-20 year old Volvo’s for most of the past 20 years. We owned one new Toyota in that time.
Really, if you can afford these vehicles, the repair cost scare stories are just that. Sure, if you want to maintain your older model Volvo at the dealer, it’s likely to hurt. Brand new? Buy what you like.
8foot7 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:34 pm
We had two Volvo sedans, separated by probably 10 model years, and both of them required (among other less expensive repairs) single $5,000+ repairs shortly after 100,000 miles. On a Lexus, 100,000 miles is essentially a Tuesday morning, just another day. Perhaps Volvo has improved, but I'll never buy one again.
As above, having owned a number of these over the years, a couple past 200k, I cannot imagine any repair that would run $5k. Maybe at a dealer needing to make their boat payment. An engine rebuild for most recent model Volvo’s at our Indy is about half of that.
Picasso wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:43 pm
2009 Lexus RX with 165,xxx miles. We’ll be purchasing another RX in 1-2 years as our second vehicle.
I can’t imagine a more reliable and useful vehicle.
We have a 2004 Rx330 bought new with 165K miles. Not one problem to date (hopefully I didn't jinx myself)....
That's great! We put a new transmission in our earlier this year, but worth it since we plan on driving the car for another 10 years. I blame myself for the transmission since I got the car just after college and I drove it HARD for the first 5 years .
Safer. Better, more comfortable seats. Great looks without a huge grill. Better CPO warranty. Better tech too.
We have had 3 kids with Volvos (2 XC60 and 1 S60). None of the reputed reliability issues other than a phantom battery drain if you didn’t subscribe to SIRIUS which was eventually fixed with a software download.
I like the seats better than our Range Rover, Mercedes, Porsche, and (it hurts to say it) Tesla. Best.
Safer. Better, more comfortable seats. Great looks without a huge grill. Better CPO warranty. Better tech too.
We have had 3 kids with Volvos (2 XC60 and 1 S60). None of the reputed reliability issues other than a phantom battery drain if you didn’t subscribe to SIRIUS which was eventually fixed with a software download.
I like the seats better than our Range Rover, Mercedes, Porsche, and (it hurts to say it) Tesla. Best.
Assume you have a six car garage ?
Regardless, a nice array of cars to experience.
Haha, actually, we had those mostly when we had no garage (but a large driveway), or more accurately, a garage that was filled by trash and recycling bins, a snowblower etc. And, btw, the Volvos held up well to being in the elements. One of the Volvos was donated to a relative, the other 2 are still in use; one of them heading cross country to graduate school in a few weeks.
The current generation of RXs are hideous compared to the XC90; the cargo room is also much smaller... But having owned Lexus for 12 years I'd still go with the RX. You will also likely hate the infotainment system and user interface in the XC90. Simple things like turning up and down the AC vents takes a laughable amount of tapping at a huge LCD screen. Horrible design in my opinion and is alone enough to turn me away from Volvo. The ride quality is also night and day but I like a more cloud like ride. If you want to "feel the road" (i.e. feel every bump and pothole) like some do, you'll like the XC90 much better.
runswithscissors wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:56 am
The current generation of RXs are hideous compared to the XC90; the cargo room is also much smaller... But having owned Lexus for 12 years I'd still go with the RX. You will also likely hate the infotainment system and user interface in the XC90. Simple things like turning up and down the AC vents takes a laughable amount of tapping at a huge LCD screen. Horrible design in my opinion and is alone enough to turn me away from Volvo. The ride quality is also night and day but I like a more cloud like ride. If you want to "feel the road" (i.e. feel every bump and pothole) like some do, you'll like the XC90 much better.
It’s actually quite simple to adjust climate controls.
runswithscissors wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:56 am
The current generation of RXs are hideous compared to the XC90; the cargo room is also much smaller... But having owned Lexus for 12 years I'd still go with the RX. You will also likely hate the infotainment system and user interface in the XC90. Simple things like turning up and down the AC vents takes a laughable amount of tapping at a huge LCD screen. Horrible design in my opinion and is alone enough to turn me away from Volvo. The ride quality is also night and day but I like a more cloud like ride. If you want to "feel the road" (i.e. feel every bump and pothole) like some do, you'll like the XC90 much better.
It’s actually quite simple to adjust climate controls.
I'd have to say it's overly complicated. Makes me want my knobs, levers and buttons back.
runswithscissors wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:56 am
The current generation of RXs are hideous compared to the XC90; the cargo room is also much smaller... But having owned Lexus for 12 years I'd still go with the RX. You will also likely hate the infotainment system and user interface in the XC90. Simple things like turning up and down the AC vents takes a laughable amount of tapping at a huge LCD screen. Horrible design in my opinion and is alone enough to turn me away from Volvo. The ride quality is also night and day but I like a more cloud like ride. If you want to "feel the road" (i.e. feel every bump and pothole) like some do, you'll like the XC90 much better.
It’s actually quite simple to adjust climate controls.
I respectfully disagree. My friend owns an XC90 and I borrowed if for an afternoon drive. Something as simple as adjusting the fan speed required one peck to get into the fan speed mode... then another peck to adjust the speed you want. And you have to aim your finger at the speed you want, vs a knob or button where you just press it or turn it. Then once that's all done you have to press an "X" button to close out the screen and see anything else. The design forces you to take your eyes off the road and look far down into the bottom of your dash for far more than just a split second. Very irresponsible design particularly from a company that prides themselves on safety. And the whole adjusting fan speed by talking to your car is absurd. I believe the movement towards massive screens to control commonly used functions is just a fad; eventually physical buttons and knobs will return.
I've never owned a Volvo and likely never will but our 2011 RX350 is probably the best car my wife and I have owned in 30 years. Amazingly it still has not had a repair. I don't mean a major repair I mean ANY repair.
We've just changed the oil/filter and gotten new tires in 9 years and my wife drives the hell out of it with over 110k miles currently. We've definitely been lucky but give Lexus some of that credit.
Don't gamble; take all your savings and buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it. --Will Rogers
In this category, my top picks would the GLE (luxury pick) or the MDX (value pick). The RX styling is a little too much for me and the XC90 has questionable long term reliability.
runswithscissors wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:43 pm
...eventually physical buttons and knobs will return.
Eventually there will be no screen. Google will figure out the optimal setting for everything (temperature, what music to play, volume, wiper speed, etc.) for you in every instant and will set it correctly.
ncbill wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:29 pm
Relatives bought a certified RX350...IMHO, overpriced and small inside.
OTOH, the XCX90 did lease well in the past...so I'd explore that option rather than own one out-of-warranty.
I had a certified RX. Wouldn’t do that again. I’d go new (and have done so). The cost per mile was MORE with the used car (because you’re not getting enough of a discount at purchase due to high resale value). And the car will need brakes and tires sooner than a new car (usually). And you might want to buy an extended warranty. And other "wear and tear" stuff that you can't see and don't think of end up making the total cost-per-mile equal to or more than a new car. Don't do it.
Last edited by Leesbro63 on Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Living Free wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:13 am
If you do have a 3rd child, a minivan would be the best choice. 3 row SUVs are not as practical as a minivan. Or alternatively try to do 3 across in a 2 row SUV.
+1
With little kids, a good minivan is the way to go. After the 100th time opening and closing a back door and hitting whatever may be next to you, you will appreciate the convenience. Upgrade when they get older.
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