Replace my 4 Runner? Update on Repair Post 47

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Carefreeap
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Re: I May Need to Replace my 2005 4 Runner :(

Post by Carefreeap »

RobLyons wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:23 pm From the sounds of it, you are ready to buy something newer. I would do the same. Being financially able to buy whatever you want, there's no need to drive it into the ground, with the potential to break down on the side of the road, with many more expected repairs before you upgrade. So I suggest start test driving vehicles now with no intention of buying and try to enjoy the process. New outback, forester, or used land cruiser are great choices for your needs! Good luck
Yes, I can be cheap to the point of stupidity at times.

Your approach is what I was thinking. Take my time to find something that I like.
Every day I can hike is a good day.
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bottlecap
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Re: Replace my 4 Runner? Update on Repair Post 47

Post by bottlecap »

I don’t know what the statistics are or how you’d come up with them, but in my experience, if you do the required maintenance on a vehicle and check it periodically, your chance of a breakdown does not increase much at all every year.

Ignore maintenance and warning signs, like most people do (and I used to do), you will increase your chances.

On the other hand, 15 years is a decent amount of time to own a vehicle. I realize not every one wants to get 250k+ out of their vehicle.

I’d repair it and then shop for a new one if I wanted. Knowing me, I’d push it to at least 300k. :D

JT
adamthesmythe
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Re: I May Need to Replace my 2005 4 Runner :(

Post by adamthesmythe »

hand wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:01 pm
adamthesmythe wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:14 pm
sad2 wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:20 pm Go for the Land Cruiser. Last car you will ever buy!
I've heard they are discontinuing sales in the US in 2021 or 2022.

Pricey yes. But solid, reliable, and bullet-proof and will get you to your cabin!
Interesting value proposition. Pay an enormous amount of money for an enormous car that will get poor gas mileage for the next 20 years. But it's a cult favorite!
Someone will write a fascinating behavioral finance thesis on the consumer preoccupation with gas mileage because it is clearly reported and heavily marketed. From an economic (and environmental) perspective, expected gas *consumption* and useful life are more relevant and may be compellingly different from gas mileage dependent on intended use and mileage...

Value proposition of Land Cruiser seems pretty straight forward (even if too large for OP), high quality and long lasting vehicle that just works, meaningfully reducing time spent thinking about non-routine maintenance / replacement, all at a reasonable life-cycle cost.
Well I care a lot about gas mileage because I drive a lot. And in the west, where distances are great.

Indeed, I thought the advantage of the Landcruiser is that it lasts forever, for 200K miles or so. But in that 200K miles you use...at best...13,000 gallons of gas...and that is around $40K...half the price of the vehicle right there. Buy a cheaper vehicle...for half the price or less...and use half the gas or less. Maybe someone will come along and tell us how many millions at retirement you forego by buying the Landcruiser.

Cult, I say, cult. Unless you are traversing the Pan American highway, or pulling a big boat, or whatever. But me, I just want to get down House Rock Valley Road on a dry day.
hmw
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Re: Replace my 2005 4 Runner :(? Update on Repair Post

Post by hmw »

Carefreeap wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:03 pm Update on the repair:

The other three pulleys needed replacement. Because they had also locked up on the drive home the new serpentine belt had to be replaced again. It's funny, after the roadside mechanic replaced the one pulley I did think "What about the other three?" Glad I got home safe.

According to the service advisor, the serpentine belt and pulleys are recommended replacement at 90k but when I look at my records it doesn't appear these items were changed out at 90k. Since I'm just shy of 180k I guess I got nearly double the life. :shock:
I had my serpentine belt came off because the idler pulley failure. It was my own fault that I had ignored the chirping sounds from the belt before the failure. I just didn’t know better. Repair was actually quite easy. I replaced the idler pulley and replaced the bearing inside the auto tensioner myself. Apparently it was a common problem for Subaru Outback.
lazydavid
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Re: Replace my 2005 4 Runner :(? Update on Repair Post

Post by lazydavid »

Carefreeap wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:03 pm Update on the repair:

The other three pulleys needed replacement. Because they had also locked up on the drive home the new serpentine belt had to be replaced again. It's funny, after the roadside mechanic replaced the one pulley I did think "What about the other three?" Glad I got home safe.

According to the service advisor, the serpentine belt and pulleys are recommended replacement at 90k but when I look at my records it doesn't appear these items were changed out at 90k. Since I'm just shy of 180k I guess I got nearly double the life. :shock:
Not really, you just bunched the replacements. :mrgreen: A 4Runner with 180k maintained according to the book would have had its serpentine belt replaced twice. Your 4Runner with 180k has had its serpentine belt replaced twice. This week. :P
Helo80
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Re: I May Need to Replace my 2005 4 Runner :(

Post by Helo80 »

adamthesmythe wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:17 pm Indeed, I thought the advantage of the Landcruiser is that it lasts forever, for 200K miles or so. But in that 200K miles you use...at best...13,000 gallons of gas...and that is around $40K...half the price of the vehicle right there. Buy a cheaper vehicle...for half the price or less...and use half the gas or less. Maybe someone will come along and tell us how many millions at retirement you forego by buying the Landcruiser.

Yup. I'd rather buy a 2020 Highlander Platinum and a 2025 Highlander Platinum (or equivalent) than 1 2020 Landcruiser for the next 10 years. Effectively, you're out the same money more or less, get better fuel economy, but at least in warranty for 6/10 years with a B2B warranty and the drivetrain would be in warranty the whole time. Now, if you drive 15k, 20k, 30k miles a year, that would change the dynamic, but we can start doing fuel economy then.
Topic Author
Carefreeap
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Re: Replace my 2005 4 Runner :(? Update on Repair Post

Post by Carefreeap »

lazydavid wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:52 am
Carefreeap wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:03 pm Update on the repair:

The other three pulleys needed replacement. Because they had also locked up on the drive home the new serpentine belt had to be replaced again. It's funny, after the roadside mechanic replaced the one pulley I did think "What about the other three?" Glad I got home safe.

According to the service advisor, the serpentine belt and pulleys are recommended replacement at 90k but when I look at my records it doesn't appear these items were changed out at 90k. Since I'm just shy of 180k I guess I got nearly double the life. :shock:
Not really, you just bunched the replacements. :mrgreen: A 4Runner with 180k maintained according to the book would have had its serpentine belt replaced twice. Your 4Runner with 180k has had its serpentine belt replaced twice. This week. :P
Lol! I could have done without the excitement of being stranded outside of Los Banos for four hours. :p
Every day I can hike is a good day.
helloeveryone
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Re: I May Need to Replace my 2005 4 Runner :(

Post by helloeveryone »

Carefreeap wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:33 am
Cubicle wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:54 pm Save the 4Runner!

Surprised no one mentioned a pickup truck. Cap over the pickup bed = overnight bed. 4WD. Plain or fancy. Parts generally not scarce. Labor/repairs generally well documented.
Lol, if I had the garage space I'd keep the 4 Runner and buy something cute like the Clubman Mini to tootle around town. But I don't and we're about 1 mi from the beach and that salt air is harsh on cars.

When I replaced the Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 4 Runner 15 years ago I did look at small pick up trucks. At the time we had four rental properties in in CA and lived in AZ so it could have been cheap transportation in that respect. But as I said back when I bought the Jeep in 1993, these SUVs are the station wagon of the 90s. I have found that I needed that extra passenger space.
Could you comments on issues you've dealt with living near beach?
I know rust is an issue, paint issues etc... What else? Just curious!
Thanks
helloeveryone
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Re: Replace my 2005 4 Runner :(? Update on Repair Post

Post by helloeveryone »

Carefreeap wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:03 pm Update on the repair:

The other three pulleys needed replacement. Because they had also locked up on the drive home the new serpentine belt had to be replaced again. It's funny, after the roadside mechanic replaced the one pulley I did think "What about the other three?" Glad I got home safe.

According to the service advisor, the serpentine belt and pulleys are recommended replacement at 90k but when I look at my records it doesn't appear these items were changed out at 90k. Since I'm just shy of 180k I guess I got nearly double the life. :shock:
Sounds like that's great news! You're good to go for some time now hopefully!
IMO
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Re: Replace my 4 Runner? Update on Repair Post 47

Post by IMO »

Carefreeap wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:27 pm It's been a good car but Saturday I got stranded coming home from So. CA. 100 miles from home. The serpentine belt broke probably due to one of pulleys freezing according to the roadside mechanic. Just shy of 180k miles. It's been repaired but sounds terrible and am taking it to the dealer to get checked out. I don't really want to replace it. I'm not really a car person so I don't care that it's 15 years old but my husband has been harping on me to replace the car. One thing I hate about the new cars is all the darn warning systems. They remind me of my mother when I was learning how to drive! I'm a good driver turning 59 in 2 months and haven't been in an accident or got a ticket in over 35 years

So help me with some suggestions. I don't need as big of a car as this one (and I hate the look of the new 4 Runners; big, bulky and mean looking). I'm still into long distance backpacking and we have a cabin in the mountains so I need some ground clearance and 4 or AW drive. I still like the idea that in a pickle I could spend the night in my car. :wink:

I could probably afford anything I like but being a good Boglehead I want value and reliability for my money. I'm most likely buying new because I do keep cars for a long time.

Thank you for your suggestions!
How much is the repair? Seems spending $600 to fix it and keep it is reasonable. May last another 30,000 miles, may die in 5 miles, but worth the risk financially.

You made the mistake of driving a 1000 mile trip with a higher mileage vehicle. Depending on how long you stayed, it probably would have been better to rent a full sized car that got better gas mileage (saving gas $$) with the lowered risk of having a mechanical breakdown. But then again, with all the new cars not having spares nowadays, I suppose you could have gotten a flat 100 miles out and had to deal with that hassle. Keep the spare thing in mind when you look at newer vehicles.
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Carefreeap
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Re: Replace my 4 Runner? Update on Repair Post 47

Post by Carefreeap »

IMO wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:29 pm
Carefreeap wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:27 pm It's been a good car but Saturday I got stranded coming home from So. CA. 100 miles from home. The serpentine belt broke probably due to one of pulleys freezing according to the roadside mechanic. Just shy of 180k miles. It's been repaired but sounds terrible and am taking it to the dealer to get checked out. I don't really want to replace it. I'm not really a car person so I don't care that it's 15 years old but my husband has been harping on me to replace the car. One thing I hate about the new cars is all the darn warning systems. They remind me of my mother when I was learning how to drive! I'm a good driver turning 59 in 2 months and haven't been in an accident or got a ticket in over 35 years

So help me with some suggestions. I don't need as big of a car as this one (and I hate the look of the new 4 Runners; big, bulky and mean looking). I'm still into long distance backpacking and we have a cabin in the mountains so I need some ground clearance and 4 or AW drive. I still like the idea that in a pickle I could spend the night in my car. :wink:

I could probably afford anything I like but being a good Boglehead I want value and reliability for my money. I'm most likely buying new because I do keep cars for a long time.

Thank you for your suggestions!
How much is the repair? Seems spending $600 to fix it and keep it is reasonable. May last another 30,000 miles, may die in 5 miles, but worth the risk financially.

You made the mistake of driving a 1000 mile trip with a higher mileage vehicle. Depending on how long you stayed, it probably would have been better to rent a full sized car that got better gas mileage (saving gas $$) with the lowered risk of having a mechanical breakdown. But then again, with all the new cars not having spares nowadays, I suppose you could have gotten a flat 100 miles out and had to deal with that hassle. Keep the spare thing in mind when you look at newer vehicles.
We're doing the repair; $350 (again) + $200 diagnostic + $100 oil change and tire rotation. I know the car has some value and those items would have to be done to keep it operable.

I don't see the point of renting a car for a trip I've made literally 100x over the years. Why keep an unreliable car?
Every day I can hike is a good day.
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Carefreeap
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Re: I May Need to Replace my 2005 4 Runner :(

Post by Carefreeap »

helloeveryone wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:48 pm
Carefreeap wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:33 am
Cubicle wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:54 pm Save the 4Runner!

Surprised no one mentioned a pickup truck. Cap over the pickup bed = overnight bed. 4WD. Plain or fancy. Parts generally not scarce. Labor/repairs generally well documented.
Lol, if I had the garage space I'd keep the 4 Runner and buy something cute like the Clubman Mini to tootle around town. But I don't and we're about 1 mi from the beach and that salt air is harsh on cars.

When I replaced the Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 4 Runner 15 years ago I did look at small pick up trucks. At the time we had four rental properties in in CA and lived in AZ so it could have been cheap transportation in that respect. But as I said back when I bought the Jeep in 1993, these SUVs are the station wagon of the 90s. I have found that I needed that extra passenger space.
Could you comments on issues you've dealt with living near beach?
I know rust is an issue, paint issues etc... What else? Just curious!
Thanks
You've got it. Also fog in the early am so you have to squeegee all the windows in order to be able to drive on foggy mornings. An old ex boss of mine once commented that people shouldn't buy used cars from my town because of those issues. We've always garaged our cars. It never made sense to me to let $25k-$50k of machinery rot in the driveway while keeping $500 of junk in the garage.
Every day I can hike is a good day.
IMO
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Re: Replace my 4 Runner? Update on Repair Post 47

Post by IMO »

Carefreeap wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:41 pm
IMO wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:29 pm
Carefreeap wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:27 pm It's been a good car but Saturday I got stranded coming home from So. CA. 100 miles from home. The serpentine belt broke probably due to one of pulleys freezing according to the roadside mechanic. Just shy of 180k miles. It's been repaired but sounds terrible and am taking it to the dealer to get checked out. I don't really want to replace it. I'm not really a car person so I don't care that it's 15 years old but my husband has been harping on me to replace the car. One thing I hate about the new cars is all the darn warning systems. They remind me of my mother when I was learning how to drive! I'm a good driver turning 59 in 2 months and haven't been in an accident or got a ticket in over 35 years

So help me with some suggestions. I don't need as big of a car as this one (and I hate the look of the new 4 Runners; big, bulky and mean looking). I'm still into long distance backpacking and we have a cabin in the mountains so I need some ground clearance and 4 or AW drive. I still like the idea that in a pickle I could spend the night in my car. :wink:

I could probably afford anything I like but being a good Boglehead I want value and reliability for my money. I'm most likely buying new because I do keep cars for a long time.

Thank you for your suggestions!
How much is the repair? Seems spending $600 to fix it and keep it is reasonable. May last another 30,000 miles, may die in 5 miles, but worth the risk financially.

You made the mistake of driving a 1000 mile trip with a higher mileage vehicle. Depending on how long you stayed, it probably would have been better to rent a full sized car that got better gas mileage (saving gas $$) with the lowered risk of having a mechanical breakdown. But then again, with all the new cars not having spares nowadays, I suppose you could have gotten a flat 100 miles out and had to deal with that hassle. Keep the spare thing in mind when you look at newer vehicles.
We're doing the repair; $350 (again) + $200 diagnostic + $100 oil change and tire rotation. I know the car has some value and those items would have to be done to keep it operable.

I don't see the point of renting a car for a trip I've made literally 100x over the years. Why keep an unreliable car?
1. Renting a car for a long trip can financially make more sense than driving one's own car if you account for depreciation and often times gas savings. We typically do the math for a rental car on long road trips and for us going to get a rental car is not a big hassle. The point on renting a car for a longer road trip for you is that you have an older high mileage vehicle that inherently has a higher risk of a mechanical breakdown. Between SF and LA, there is some pretty long stretches without any services. You only were 100 miles from home, what if you were 350 miles from home, same hassle?

2. Why keep an unreliable car?

a. Most people don't drive very far from home on a day to day basis. Driving an older and "unreliable" car can be a reasonable compromise for that local driving. I know, for local driving, if my older and unreliable car breaks down, it wouldn't be that big of a deal. Get it towed, call spouse/Lyft to get home, possible repair it if I felt it was worth repairing. The older car has already been fully depreciated, is very inexpensive to insure/register, and I don't care about minor things like door dings.

b. I thought in your post you said "I really don't want to replace it". Why did you say that?
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Carefreeap
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Re: Replace my 4 Runner? Update on Repair Post 47

Post by Carefreeap »

Thought I would update the thread.

On Friday I picked up a new 2020 Mazda CX5 Signature. It's going to take me a month to figure out all these bells and whistles. :oops:

Today I sold the 4 Runner to CarMax for $5,500. Really sad to let the old girl go but I don't have a good place to store her. Lots of great adventures and I certainly got my money's worth from the car.
Every day I can hike is a good day.
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bottlecap
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Re: Replace my 4 Runner? Update on Repair Post 47

Post by bottlecap »

Oops, didn’t realize you were updating. Have fun with the new car!

JT
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Re: I May Need to Replace my 2005 4 Runner :(

Post by jharkin »

lthenderson wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:03 pm
Carefreeap wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:27 pm The serpentine belt broke probably due to one of pulleys freezing according to the roadside mechanic. Just shy of 180k miles. It's been repaired but sounds terrible and am taking it to the dealer to get checked out.
Serpentine belts are usually recommended to be changed one or twice during a vehicles life as they wear out and I'm guessing yours might never have been changed. Fortunately, it is rare that they do much damage when they break. Mostly you just loose power steering and electrical systems in your vehicle. Since it was repaired and it is still making noise, there is probably one of two things happening. Either one of the components the belt makes turn is frozen which caused the original belt to slip by until it broke and this will happen again. The other possibility is that the belt wasn't correctly installed or aligned by whomever fixed it and this can lead to noise as well. It certainly shouldn't be an expensive fix to get this vehicle back on the road running like it was before.

+1. For some odd reason manufacturers stopped listing change intervals for them, but just like timing belts they don’t last forever. I wouldn’t trust beyond 7y /100k ( longest published timing belt interval) and typically I do them at 60k to be safe.

The serpentine is usually less than $30 and only takes minutes to change on a lot of cars. The trickiest part is the special tool needed to release the tensioner... but AutoZone rents them.


Having said all that, 15 years is a good run and it’s not unreasonable to trade in on something new at this point....
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