heated driveway?

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finite_difference
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by finite_difference »

Balefire wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:03 pm I have a heated driveway with my new house.
Hydronic system under my concrete driveway.
Boiler in the garage.
Cost about $17k for my driveway

Splurged with the intention of staying in this house forever and would similarly need this when we become ancient.
It is manually controlled and works well.
Highly recommend.
Chicago last winter. No issue. Never had to shovel the driveway.

Works so well, if I could have purchased it for the sidewalks I would have done the same.

I also have heated mats as a walkway to my detached garage.

The heated mat is an option if your driveway is in good condition but the running costs would be much higher.
What are your running costs?
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tibbitts
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by tibbitts »

So to clarify, there are neighbors and all of them d-i-y?
OldBallCoach
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by OldBallCoach »

When we built our home we did radiant heat in the cement slab, so we also did the 4 stall garage and about 40 feet x50 extra for parking out side on a seperate zone as well as the short sidewalk to the house from the driveway...it works womderfully but I couldnt even THINK about retro fitting something like that now...is there no kid in the neighborhood than needs a few bucks? A landscaping company? All wheel drive car and say the hell with it?
tibbitts
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by tibbitts »

OldBallCoach wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:23 pm When we built our home we did radiant heat in the cement slab, so we also did the 4 stall garage and about 40 feet x50 extra for parking out side on a seperate zone as well as the short sidewalk to the house from the driveway...it works womderfully but I couldnt even THINK about retro fitting something like that now...is there no kid in the neighborhood than needs a few bucks? A landscaping company? All wheel drive car and say the hell with it?
The OP seems to be getting frustrated by people suggesting to hire a kid in the neighborhood. An AWD car will not be effective for anywhere there is any significant snowfall.
TravelGeek
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by TravelGeek »

Seems like there is a business opportunity here for someone (OP?) to start a snow removal business in that area.

We have a similar sized driveway as the OP. We shovel by hand. At the beginning of the season, we pile the snow up to the sides of the driveway, but in some winters the piles get too big and we then resort to using half the driveway for snow “storage”, i.e., nothing actually gets removed until it melts. We have two vehicles, but only one (Forester with snow tires) leaves the garage when there is significant snow or ice on the roads.

In our area there are always students offering such services on Nextdoor. Obviously now is not the time to look for them.

There is a hotel nearby that has a heated parking lot. It looks pretty neat but I’d hate to think what their utility bill looks like.
Last edited by TravelGeek on Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
squirm
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by squirm »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:32 pm
OldBallCoach wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:23 pm When we built our home we did radiant heat in the cement slab, so we also did the 4 stall garage and about 40 feet x50 extra for parking out side on a seperate zone as well as the short sidewalk to the house from the driveway...it works womderfully but I couldnt even THINK about retro fitting something like that now...is there no kid in the neighborhood than needs a few bucks? A landscaping company? All wheel drive car and say the hell with it?
The OP seems to be getting frustrated by people suggesting to hire a kid in the neighborhood. An AWD car will not be effective for anywhere there is any significant snowfall.
Can't blame him, he's asking a simple question but gets some stupid answers.
btenny
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by btenny »

I live in Tahoe part time near several ski areas. We get lots of snow. One friend uses a electric heater to clear snow from her drive way. She is rich (multi $M house) but complains about the heater. She has to turn the thing on and off manually. She forgets to turn it on and so she has a snowed in drive way. We get 2 feet over night or 5 feet over a week sometimes. So the heater will not clear the deep snow very fast. Or she forgets to turn it off and it runs for days and then she has huge electric bills. She now uses a snow removal company unless she is having house guests and wants everything super clear. But many of us do use those small heating pads to keep our out door stair ways and walks ways clear. I just stop using my front door all winter. I go in and out via the garage.

As far as snow blower companies, try calling and driving around your neighborhood area and look for some small local yard people this summer. The trick is to find some guys who work full time doing something else but mow lawns in your area in the summer and clear driveways in the winter. These small guys do 10-20 houses for extra money so they just use a snow blower or small plow on their pickup. They have small routes so they can do the snow blowing and then still get to a regular job at a reasonable time. This is how my guy works. He does my yard on Saturday.

An for those that suggest running a snow blower is easy, try doing it sometime. Several people each winter here have heart attacks doing snow removal. One good friend died doing this work. It is very hard work done outside in cold nasty weather. It really strains the body controlling the blower and shoveling. My blower is 28 inches and a 10 horse power motor. It weighs a lot, maybe 200 pounds or more.

Good Luck.
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Watty
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by Watty »

btenny wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:14 pm An for those that suggest running a snow blower is easy, try doing it sometime. Several people each winter here have heart attacks doing snow removal. One good friend died doing this work. It is very hard work done outside in cold nasty weather.
+1

And slipping and falling could result in a broken hip or other broken bones.

That is not a job for someone that describes themselves as "an ancient person" even with something like a riding lawnmower with a snow blade on it.
retiredjg
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by retiredjg »

btenny wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:14 pm It is very hard work done outside in cold nasty weather. It really strains the body controlling the blower and shoveling. My blower is 28 inches and a 10 horse power motor. It weighs a lot, maybe 200 pounds or more.
My EGO weighs 25 pounds + batteries so maybe 30 lbs total. It's not much different from using a lawnmower unless the snow is just too deep for the machine. In very deep snow it still works but is physically demanding and you don't get anywhere fast.

It may not be enough for your climate but it may be enough for mouse's unknown climate, especially since the driveway is small and maybe only one lane of it really has to be clear.
lazydavid
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by lazydavid »

mouses wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:48 am However, shoveling deep snow for long enough in freezing weather is pushing it.
This is true for anyone, regardless of age or physical condition. I've had employees in their 30s and 40s miss work or be in very obvious pain for days at a time due to shoveling. 1-2 inches is about all I'm willing to shovel. After that, the beast (24" Ariens SHO) comes to life and I follow it around as it clears the drive for me.
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mouses
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by mouses »

makingmistakes wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:27 pm
The fact that it’s only 2 car widths wide by 1 car length long implied pretty limited ability as that would take about 5 minutes to clear. 😄
There speaks someone who has never shoveled snow, or never shoveled snow more than 2 inches deep.

I live in a semi-rural semi-suburban area. I have one neighbor in the winter who uses a snow blower. The other houses for several around are not occupied in the winter. My family lives out of state. (I am not asking the neighbor if I can hire him; he makes more money than God, and would probably offer to do it for free, which I will not accept.)
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White Coat Investor
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by White Coat Investor »

mouses wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:14 am
bob60014 wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:11 am Just look for another snow removal contractor or kid in the neighborhood to remove the snow. Fewer issues and lower costs.
Third post of mine saying that does not work.
Offer more money. Somebody will clear it, and likely at a much cheaper cost than driveway replacement. Distribute fliers in the neighborhood offering twice what you used to pay.

At a high enough price, I'll fly in and shovel it.
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denovo
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by denovo »

mouses wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:26 am The guys who have been doing snow removal at my house for several years are shutting down that business.

This leaves me, an ancient person, with possibly no way to get snow removed. So far I have come up with zero possibilities despite contacting a number of possibilities. I think the fact that it's mainly snow blowing and shoveling vs. snow plowing is the cause of that.

So I am wondering about having a heated driveway installed. Do these actually work to keep the driveway clear of snow, especially if say two feet fall? Any problems with them?

The driveway is small,, a two car garage wide and only about one car length deep.

If this works out, I would later have the path from the house to the garage and street done.

Thanks for any info.
What are your neighbors doing?
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tibbitts
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by tibbitts »

makingmistakes wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:27 pm
mouses wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:48 am
tibbitts wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:45 am I would still say we're operating on the assumption that we're dealing with someone too physically limited to operate any kind of equipment, drive, or possibly even walk.
Geez, what made you think that? I drive safely, walk, no one with the exception of bogleheads has even remotely said I shouldn't drive or should go to assisted living.

However, shoveling deep snow for long enough in freezing weather is pushing it.
The fact that it’s only 2 car widths wide by 1 car length long implied pretty limited ability as that would take about 5 minutes to clear. 😄
The 2ft or so at the end of the driveway is sometimes huge chunks of ice thrown up by snow plows that you have to chop through. Certainly nothing you can attack with a snow shovel. Then the surface of the driveway is often covered with ice that similarly has to be chopped through. I can see it easily taking a couple of hours with an occasional brief break to warm up and rest.
tibbitts
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by tibbitts »

denovo wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:19 pm
mouses wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:26 am The guys who have been doing snow removal at my house for several years are shutting down that business.

This leaves me, an ancient person, with possibly no way to get snow removed. So far I have come up with zero possibilities despite contacting a number of possibilities. I think the fact that it's mainly snow blowing and shoveling vs. snow plowing is the cause of that.

So I am wondering about having a heated driveway installed. Do these actually work to keep the driveway clear of snow, especially if say two feet fall? Any problems with them?

The driveway is small,, a two car garage wide and only about one car length deep.

If this works out, I would later have the path from the house to the garage and street done.

Thanks for any info.
What are your neighbors doing?
The OP already explained almost all neighbors are seasonal and not there for the winter, so nobody clears their driveways. The one neighbor that is there does d-i-y.
denovo
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by denovo »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:24 pm
denovo wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:19 pm
mouses wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:26 am The guys who have been doing snow removal at my house for several years are shutting down that business.

This leaves me, an ancient person, with possibly no way to get snow removed. So far I have come up with zero possibilities despite contacting a number of possibilities. I think the fact that it's mainly snow blowing and shoveling vs. snow plowing is the cause of that.

So I am wondering about having a heated driveway installed. Do these actually work to keep the driveway clear of snow, especially if say two feet fall? Any problems with them?

The driveway is small,, a two car garage wide and only about one car length deep.

If this works out, I would later have the path from the house to the garage and street done.

Thanks for any info.
What are your neighbors doing?
The OP already explained almost all neighbors are seasonal and not there for the winter, so nobody clears their driveways. The one neighbor that is there does d-i-y.
Why not pay the neighbor to do it?
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln
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dodecahedron
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by dodecahedron »

Helo80 wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:44 am
livesoft wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:38 am A heated driveway works. I had a friend who bought a home with a heated driveway only he didn't know that. His electric bills were ENORMOUS and he couldn't figure it out. Eventually, he found out the driveway heater had not been turned off for many months into the warmer weather.

Ok, I have to ask... how much money every month does his heated driveway cost to run?
We had one from Jan 1984 through Jan 1989 in Boston area. It was a short driveway like the OP´s. Not expensive to operate, we generally just turned it on while snow was actively actually falling. Once we forgot to turn it off for a couple days until we saw steam rising from driveway on subsequent rainy day. Oops! We held our breath until the electric bill came. But not even a noticeable blip that month.

For a short driveway and if you are reasonably conscientious about turning it off when snow stops, I would recommend it.

That said, no idea about installation costs. Original owners of the home had the builder put it in.
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Sandtrap
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by Sandtrap »

makingmistakes wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:27 pm
mouses wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:48 am
tibbitts wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:45 am I would still say we're operating on the assumption that we're dealing with someone too physically limited to operate any kind of equipment, drive, or possibly even walk.
Geez, what made you think that? I drive safely, walk, no one with the exception of bogleheads has even remotely said I shouldn't drive or should go to assisted living.

However, shoveling deep snow for long enough in freezing weather is pushing it.
The fact that it’s only 2 car widths wide by 1 car length long implied pretty limited ability as that would take about 5 minutes to clear. 😄
5 minutes and a "shovel"?

I have a lousy spine but a great John Deere tractor.
Thus, 5 minutes to clear something like that via Mr. John Deere.
VS
6 months if done with a shovel, including 911 call, hospital, rehab, meds, snacks, ice cream, fresh backed brownies, sympathy. . .

For a small area like that, I'd forego the "heated driveway" and either get a mini tractor, or other thing that does the job sitting, or hire a strong young fellow that can do it with a shovel in 5 minutes.

FWIW: All our cars/trucks are 4wd with off road/all terrain tires. So, we don't clear snow, we just drive over it.
j :happy
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inbox788
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by inbox788 »

Helo80 wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:44 am
livesoft wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:38 am A heated driveway works. I had a friend who bought a home with a heated driveway only he didn't know that. His electric bills were ENORMOUS and he couldn't figure it out. Eventually, he found out the driveway heater had not been turned off for many months into the warmer weather.

Ok, I have to ask... how much money every month does his heated driveway cost to run?
Didn't see an answer, but was curious. Here's a part, and if it's anything like this, it's not cheap. It's about 4 kw, so about $1/hour. If you run it 24/7, that would add over $500/month in electrical usage. And bigger systems scale in operating cost.
Snow Melt Mat 240V, 2' x 50', 100 sq. ft., 20.9A
For 100 sq. ft.
https://www.amazon.com/WarmlyYours-Snow ... B005ZO6LE0

Example here is $2/hour and for 6 hours snowfall (melting rate 1-3"/hour) comes to $12 operating energy costs, which doesn't include fixed costs.

https://www.warmlyyours.com/en-US/snow-melting

I'm guessing water/tubing systems are more cost efficient, but they can clog up or freeze up. You probably have to start circulating before the pipes freeze.

Optimal solution may depend on how cold and how much snow you get, but overcoming high fixed and high operating costs is a challenge, so hiring someone might still be the practical solution for most.

You probably won't want to tear up a good driveway just to install the heater, but if you're redoing your driveway anyway, it's something to consider installing. And if it's really cold and snowing a lot, you might still call someone out to remove a lot of snow. Will snowplows damage these heated driveways?

Anyway, keep asking around the neighborhood and see if anyone is using a guy with a snowblower and shovel, and not full blown plow. That seems like all you need.
Last edited by inbox788 on Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
retiredjg
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by retiredjg »

Sandtrap wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:56 pm FWIW: All our cars/trucks are 4wd with off road/all terrain tires. So, we don't clear snow, we just drive over it.
j :happy
That probably works fine in AZ. :D

It does not work all that well in a more humid climate. You can drive over it once. After that it is just compacted into a sheet of ice that will be there for days. Better not to drive over it in the first place if you have a choice.
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Sandtrap
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by Sandtrap »

retiredjg wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:10 pm
Sandtrap wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:56 pm FWIW: All our cars/trucks are 4wd with off road/all terrain tires. So, we don't clear snow, we just drive over it.
j :happy
That probably works fine in AZ. :D

It does not work all that well in a more humid climate. You can drive over it once. After that it is just compacted into a sheet of ice that will be there for days. Better not to drive over it in the first place if you have a choice.
True.
We're a mile high in Northern Arizona.
30" of snow 2 winters ago. Usually no more than 12".
John Deere Tractor to the rescue!

Yes. Ice is nasty. Thaw then freeze overnight.
Not good for "slip and falls". Can't sue myself!

j :happy
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TravelGeek
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by TravelGeek »

denovo wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:26 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:24 pm
denovo wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:19 pm
mouses wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:26 am The guys who have been doing snow removal at my house for several years are shutting down that business.

This leaves me, an ancient person, with possibly no way to get snow removed. So far I have come up with zero possibilities despite contacting a number of possibilities. I think the fact that it's mainly snow blowing and shoveling vs. snow plowing is the cause of that.

So I am wondering about having a heated driveway installed. Do these actually work to keep the driveway clear of snow, especially if say two feet fall? Any problems with them?

The driveway is small,, a two car garage wide and only about one car length deep.

If this works out, I would later have the path from the house to the garage and street done.

Thanks for any info.
What are your neighbors doing?
The OP already explained almost all neighbors are seasonal and not there for the winter, so nobody clears their driveways. The one neighbor that is there does d-i-y.
Why not pay the neighbor to do it?
Because
mouses wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:27 pm I am not asking the neighbor if I can hire him; he makes more money than God, and would probably offer to do it for free, which I will not accept.
tibbitts wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:22 pm The 2ft or so at the end of the driveway is sometimes huge chunks of ice thrown up by snow plows that you have to chop through. Certainly nothing you can attack with a snow shovel. Then the surface of the driveway is often covered with ice that similarly has to be chopped through. I can see it easily taking a couple of hours with an occasional brief break to warm up and rest.
That is, for us, the biggest problem and presumably not solved by the heating system. If I see the snow plow come down the street, I immediately get “in gear” to remove the berm while it is still semi-movable with a shovel.
tibbitts
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by tibbitts »

denovo wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:26 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:24 pm
denovo wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:19 pm
mouses wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:26 am The guys who have been doing snow removal at my house for several years are shutting down that business.

This leaves me, an ancient person, with possibly no way to get snow removed. So far I have come up with zero possibilities despite contacting a number of possibilities. I think the fact that it's mainly snow blowing and shoveling vs. snow plowing is the cause of that.

So I am wondering about having a heated driveway installed. Do these actually work to keep the driveway clear of snow, especially if say two feet fall? Any problems with them?

The driveway is small,, a two car garage wide and only about one car length deep.

If this works out, I would later have the path from the house to the garage and street done.

Thanks for any info.
What are your neighbors doing?
The OP already explained almost all neighbors are seasonal and not there for the winter, so nobody clears their driveways. The one neighbor that is there does d-i-y.
Why not pay the neighbor to do it?
I'm not sure why I'm answering for the OP, but he already explained that the neighbor is extremely wealthy and would never accept money for clearing the driveway. The neighbor would gladly clear the driveway for free, but the OP does not feel comfortable with that arrangement.
nanameg
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by nanameg »

livesoft wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:38 am A heated driveway works. I had a friend who bought a home with a heated driveway only he didn't know that. His electric bills were ENORMOUS and he couldn't figure it out. Eventually, he found out the driveway heater had not been turned off for many months into the warmer weather.

Such a system would be out of my ability to afford it. It might be cheaper to move to a motel before any expected snow starts.
Hahah! Nice to get a literal lol on bogleheads! Thanks !
atikovi
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by atikovi »

Just get a beater 4x4 for the winter. With a mild lift and good tires, you can go through 18 inches easily.
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mouses
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by mouses »

Cycle wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:28 pm
mouses wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:48 am
Geez, what made you think that? I drive safely, walk, no one with the exception of bogleheads has even remotely said I shouldn't drive or should go to assisted living.

However, shoveling deep snow for long enough in freezing weather is pushing it.
According to a survey 100% of senior drivers said they were safe drivers.
Bigotry is difficult to combat. I guess we all know that. Probably you're one of those people who doesn't hire anyone over forty.
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Nate79
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by Nate79 »

Have you considered one of these fancy snow blowers? The expensive ones look like they propel and turn by themselves with heated handlebars, etc. Or maybe an enclosed lawn tractor with a snowblower attachment? I'd look at these before ripping up a driveway for a heater install.
RobLyons
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by RobLyons »

If it were me, I would completely exhaust all other options first. Friends, family, coworkers, ex coworkers, craigslist, Facebook, NextDoor, put an ad in the paper, talk to local handymen, contractors, local big box store(s), hardware stores.

Buying a great snow blower (I did this for $3,500 2 years ago, haven't had many big snow storms since - funny how that happens :wink: ). I would do this because it's more financially sensible and more logical. I got a nice Honda with the electric start, self propelled, electric joystick, etc.

If I exhausted all those options and heated driveway is the path I'm taking, I would get 3 estimates and go with the one I feel most confident with, based on reviews and the interaction, lastly price. A well off contractor friend mentioned heated driveway in discussions to another well off person and they love them, if installed properly.

Good luck!
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nigel_ht
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by nigel_ht »

denovo wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:26 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:24 pm
denovo wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:19 pm
mouses wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:26 am The guys who have been doing snow removal at my house for several years are shutting down that business.

This leaves me, an ancient person, with possibly no way to get snow removed. So far I have come up with zero possibilities despite contacting a number of possibilities. I think the fact that it's mainly snow blowing and shoveling vs. snow plowing is the cause of that.

So I am wondering about having a heated driveway installed. Do these actually work to keep the driveway clear of snow, especially if say two feet fall? Any problems with them?

The driveway is small,, a two car garage wide and only about one car length deep.

If this works out, I would later have the path from the house to the garage and street done.

Thanks for any info.
What are your neighbors doing?
The OP already explained almost all neighbors are seasonal and not there for the winter, so nobody clears their driveways. The one neighbor that is there does d-i-y.
Why not pay the neighbor to do it?
Why not read the thread where he already answers this?
atikovi
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by atikovi »

inbox788 wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:06 pm I'm guessing water/tubing systems are more cost efficient, but they can clog up or freeze up. You probably have to start circulating before the pipes freeze.
Umm, they are filled with the same antifreeze as used in your car.
investingdad
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by investingdad »

makingmistakes wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:27 pm
mouses wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:48 am
tibbitts wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:45 am I would still say we're operating on the assumption that we're dealing with someone too physically limited to operate any kind of equipment, drive, or possibly even walk.
Geez, what made you think that? I drive safely, walk, no one with the exception of bogleheads has even remotely said I shouldn't drive or should go to assisted living.

However, shoveling deep snow for long enough in freezing weather is pushing it.
The fact that it’s only 2 car widths wide by 1 car length long implied pretty limited ability as that would take about 5 minutes to clear. 😄
Have you ever shoveled 6 inches of wet snow?

People that don't have experience with wet snow, like we get in the northeast, have zero idea it's like to shovel wet snow. It's not light, powdery fluff. Its like shoveling mud.

Anyway, our corporate office has a massive heated drive to the main entrance. It not only melts, it dries.
Balefire
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by Balefire »

There is a lot of bad information in this thread from people with no experience with wet snow and no experience with heated driveways.

I am a muscular healthy middle age dad in Chicago.
Light snow is easy for most including my ancient parents.
Perhaps once a month in the winter there is a heavy snow that is impossible for my parents and is an extreme form of exercise for me even with a two stage snow blower. In these scenarios, my electric snow blower is useless.
Perhaps once a month in the winter there is a wet medium snow that is just as difficult as a heavy snow.
And God forbid you take a weekend vacation and come back to a driveway that is now ice.
Practically impossible. Regardless of whatever snow blower you own.

Heated hydronic driveway is affordable to use but not to install.
My system has a timer that PREVENTS me from turning it on manually for more than 12 hours. No risk of leaving it on accidentally for weeks as some of suggested.
It also has a sensor wherein it would automatically turn on and off for forgetful people but I'm too ocd to use that.

This is a boglehead thread.
It should be about cost benefit risk ratio.

What is their current cardiac risk for MI?
Can they operate a heavy two stage snow blower?
How many hours would it take the OP to manually shovel with a two stage snow blower?
Can they afford 15-30k install plus an extra $100-200 in electricity per month when used?
livesoft
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by livesoft »

Balefire wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:55 am This is a boglehead thread.
It should be about cost benefit risk ratio.

What is their current cardiac risk for MI?
Can they operate a heavy two stage snow blower?
How many hours would it take the OP to manually shovel with a two stage snow blower?
Can they afford 15-30k install plus an extra $100-200 in electricity per month when used?
It was stated by the OP that the neighbor would probably clear the OP's snow for free. That should have been the end of the thread and would have been a very Boglehead end result.
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atikovi
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by atikovi »

livesoft wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:55 am
Balefire wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:55 am This is a boglehead thread.
It should be about cost benefit risk ratio.

What is their current cardiac risk for MI?
Can they operate a heavy two stage snow blower?
How many hours would it take the OP to manually shovel with a two stage snow blower?
Can they afford 15-30k install plus an extra $100-200 in electricity per month when used?
It was stated by the OP that the neighbor would probably clear the OP's snow for free. That should have been the end of the thread and would have been a very Boglehead end result.
Most people don't like to feel obligated to others. Once the neighbor shovels the snow for free, he might be expecting a ride to the airport in return.
Helo80
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by Helo80 »

inbox788 wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:06 pm
Snow Melt Mat 240V, 2' x 50', 100 sq. ft., 20.9A
For 100 sq. ft.
https://www.amazon.com/WarmlyYours-Snow ... B005ZO6LE0

Example here is $2/hour and for 6 hours snowfall (melting rate 1-3"/hour) comes to $12 operating energy costs, which doesn't include fixed costs.

https://www.warmlyyours.com/en-US/snow-melting


Thanks for this write-up. I never knew stuff like that existed.
livesoft
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by livesoft »

atikovi wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:00 amMost people don't like to feel obligated to others. Once the neighbor shovels the snow for free, he might be expecting a ride to the airport in return.
What a shame. I do favors for my neighbors routinely. I don't expect anything in return. Nevertheless, they do favors for me, too.

Yesterday, I came across two of my neighbors mowing the lawn and edging for a third neighbor. They were not asked to do it and the lawn being mowed was not out of line and indeed, is well-kept. There was a death at the home being mowed, so the owners had their minds on something else.
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2pedals
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by 2pedals »

investingdad wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 7:18 am
makingmistakes wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:27 pm
mouses wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:48 am
tibbitts wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:45 am I would still say we're operating on the assumption that we're dealing with someone too physically limited to operate any kind of equipment, drive, or possibly even walk.
Geez, what made you think that? I drive safely, walk, no one with the exception of bogleheads has even remotely said I shouldn't drive or should go to assisted living.

However, shoveling deep snow for long enough in freezing weather is pushing it.
The fact that it’s only 2 car widths wide by 1 car length long implied pretty limited ability as that would take about 5 minutes to clear. 😄
Have you ever shoveled 6 inches of wet snow?

People that don't have experience with wet snow, like we get in the northeast, have zero idea it's like to shovel wet snow. It's not light, powdery fluff. Its like shoveling mud.

Anyway, our corporate office has a massive heated drive to the main entrance. It not only melts, it dries.
You didn't even mention the hardest part to clear. The massive snow plows create compact snow, sand and ice chunks that build up at the end of the driveway. I think my bad back was caused from years of shoveling this stuff when I was a kid.
atikovi
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Location: Suburban Washington DC

Re: heated driveway?

Post by atikovi »

livesoft wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:07 am
atikovi wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:00 amMost people don't like to feel obligated to others. Once the neighbor shovels the snow for free, he might be expecting a ride to the airport in return.
What a shame. I do favors for my neighbors routinely. I don't expect anything in return. Nevertheless, they do favors for me, too.

Yesterday, I came across two of my neighbors mowing the lawn and edging for a third neighbor. They were not asked to do it and the lawn being mowed was not out of line and indeed, is well-kept. There was a death at the home being mowed, so the owners had their minds on something else.
Mow someones lawn, and the next thing you know, you're expected to help them move. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0siRMEEY8rc
livesoft
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by livesoft »

atikovi wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:18 amMow someones lawn, and the next thing you know, you're expected to help them move.
Right. Answer a question at Bogleheads.org and the next thing you know you are expected to answer every question at Bogleheads.org.
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OldBallCoach
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by OldBallCoach »

Try calling a senior services program in your area or United way or Red Cross? Someone has to be able to help I hope...I have a few guys that do about 20 sidewalks in our college town as a way to provide some community service..maybe try that angle?
MathWizard
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by MathWizard »

mouses wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:48 am
tibbitts wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:45 am I would still say we're operating on the assumption that we're dealing with someone too physically limited to operate any kind of equipment, drive, or possibly even walk.
Geez, what made you think that? I drive safely, walk, no one with the exception of bogleheads has even remotely said I shouldn't drive or should go to assisted living.

However, shoveling deep snow for long enough in freezing weather is pushing it.
I suggest getting a good 1 stage snowblower with electric start.

I used a 2 stage for years because I worried that a 1 stage would not be powerful enough,but my wife could not handle it because it was so hard to steer.

I haven't gotten the 2 stage out for 2 years .

If you want a 2 stage, I'd get one with independently controlled tracks. An Aierns model is very good, but comparatively expensive (over 2,000), but much cheaper than a heated driveway.

If you are getting up in years like I am, you don't want to be shoveling snow, especially the wet snow at the beginning of a season.
nigel_ht
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Re: heated driveway?

Post by nigel_ht »

Yah, wet snow sucks big time. And invariably we get melts and freezes...
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