What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

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oldfort
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by oldfort »

Elysium wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:43 pm
ElBarto wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:31 am invested assets are ~$3.1 million as of Friday. I make $300k-$450k a year. I think what is more important is how much we spend. Ignoring the mortgage which will be paid off before year's end we spend $100k-$120k a year. The current $3.1 million would cover that spending indefinitely. In addition we have our 529 fully covered and should be able to pay for most colleges except maybe the most expensive. I'm sure we can cash flow those if needed. I also promise not to rear end you in my future car. Believe me I don't think I would want to get into an accident with that thing.
Guy makes $300k-$450k a year, yet lives in a $250k home in a neighborhood where possible median household income is less than $100k. I have to be incredibility stupid to believe this stuff, which I am not. Why do people still engage in this fantasy :?:
Because we get to live vicariously. Read The Millionaire Next Door. Having $3M in investments with a $250k house might be unusual, but it happens more than you think.
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ElBarto
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by ElBarto »

BruDude wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:24 pm The McLaren MP4-12C is known as one of the least reliable exotics around, hence the lower price point these days. Everything is expensive to fix, and it needs a lot of fixing. Even with the $5k/year warranty you may get frustrated with constantly having to take the car to the dealer. Without the warranty you’re staring at massive repair costs. Having to climb into and out of the car over the CF tub is also a bit of a pain because it’s pretty wide at the door sill.

There is also a lot of concern over McLaren’s financial status and a possible bankruptcy causing further problems for owners (Aston is in the same boat). Just things to keep in mind.


X2 on the Vegas suggestion. You can rent just about any exotic for 4-24 hours. Also places to drive laps around the track in one.
That is soooooo disappointing but also why I doing my due diligence before buying.
fatcoffeedrinker
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by fatcoffeedrinker »

Elysium wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:43 pm
ElBarto wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:31 am invested assets are ~$3.1 million as of Friday. I make $300k-$450k a year. I think what is more important is how much we spend. Ignoring the mortgage which will be paid off before year's end we spend $100k-$120k a year. The current $3.1 million would cover that spending indefinitely. In addition we have our 529 fully covered and should be able to pay for most colleges except maybe the most expensive. I'm sure we can cash flow those if needed. I also promise not to rear end you in my future car. Believe me I don't think I would want to get into an accident with that thing.
Guy makes $300k-$450k a year, yet lives in a $250k home in a neighborhood where possible median household income is less than $100k. I have to be incredibility stupid to believe this stuff, which I am not. Why do people still engage in this fantasy :?:
So he lives below his means when it comes to home location. What is so unbelievable? I live in a HCOL area where my home value is 70% of my annual income and where I make 12x the median household income here. I could live in a VHCOL area closer to the beach, but I choose not to so I can spend on other things. Exotic cars are not my thing, but they are apparently the OP's. Even more reason why he can buy this type of car since he is not house poor.
redfan11
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by redfan11 »

911 GT3 RS. No doubts. Just buy it and make sure you take it to a track. Enjoy your success!
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ElBarto
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by ElBarto »

fatcoffeedrinker wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:53 pm
Elysium wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:43 pm
ElBarto wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:31 am invested assets are ~$3.1 million as of Friday. I make $300k-$450k a year. I think what is more important is how much we spend. Ignoring the mortgage which will be paid off before year's end we spend $100k-$120k a year. The current $3.1 million would cover that spending indefinitely. In addition we have our 529 fully covered and should be able to pay for most colleges except maybe the most expensive. I'm sure we can cash flow those if needed. I also promise not to rear end you in my future car. Believe me I don't think I would want to get into an accident with that thing.
Guy makes $300k-$450k a year, yet lives in a $250k home in a neighborhood where possible median household income is less than $100k. I have to be incredibility stupid to believe this stuff, which I am not. Why do people still engage in this fantasy :?:
So he lives below his means when it comes to home location. What is so unbelievable? I live in a HCOL area where my home value is 70% of my annual income and where I make 12x the median household income here. I could live in a VHCOL area closer to the beach, but I choose not to so I can spend on other things. Exotic cars are not my thing, but they are apparently the OP's. Even more reason why he can buy this type of car since he is not house poor.
Elysium wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:43 pm
ElBarto wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:31 am invested assets are ~$3.1 million as of Friday. I make $300k-$450k a year. I think what is more important is how much we spend. Ignoring the mortgage which will be paid off before year's end we spend $100k-$120k a year. The current $3.1 million would cover that spending indefinitely. In addition we have our 529 fully covered and should be able to pay for most colleges except maybe the most expensive. I'm sure we can cash flow those if needed. I also promise not to rear end you in my future car. Believe me I don't think I would want to get into an accident with that thing.
Guy makes $300k-$450k a year, yet lives in a $250k home in a neighborhood where possible median household income is less than $100k. I have to be incredibility stupid to believe this stuff, which I am not. Why do people still engage in this fantasy :?:
Where did you get the idea my house is worth $250k? I have never posted that or anything remotely to it. I posted 1 month ago that I have $180k left on my mortgage which will be paid off before the end of the year barring another correction. If you must know I bought my home towards the bottom of the housing market. The city at one time valued the house at $875k for tax collection though more realistically it is probably worth $600k give or take $50k. When I bought the house, that year, the mortgage was less than 1 year's salary which was my goal. I make less money now as I did back then but that is because I don't have it in me to hustle like I used to nor do I need to. The house has a 3 car garage which is tall enough to add a lift if I desired, but I would not be able to stand completely under the car if lifted due to the ceiling limitation. I have no idea what the average income in my neighborhood is because people don't talk about these things openly.
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ElBarto
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by ElBarto »

batrleby wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:44 pm I was in your shoes, and bought a 911 GT3 in retirement for the big splurge. But I started with an older late 80’s Carrera Targa in my 40’s, and swapped for a mid 2000’s Boxster S in my 50’s. I *highly* recommend starting with an older but well loved model as a first sports car. After a few years you’ll have a sense of just how ‘hard core’, ‘luxe’, or ‘exotic’ you really want to be.

I love my GT3 but it’s pretty uncompromising for a daily driver.

(p.s. you said you don’t care for Mercedes but the current model GTC Coupe rings all my bells — I’ve test driven one hard — and I’m not a Mercedes guy either. You might check it out, there’s some good deals to be had in today’s market)
It is good advice and I will not ignore it. Still planning on test driving some of those cars, but there is something to be said about the journey as opposed to just splurging all at once with no room for improvement later.
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ElBarto
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by ElBarto »

investingdad wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:25 pm

I'm 46. Our portfolio is just a tad over $3 million and we have maybe 110k in cash. We owe about 180k on our mortgage. Our combined base income is 275k, bonuses can add up to 50k.

I think it's crazy to drop 150k on a car, and I'm coming from almost EXACTLY the same place financially.

But that's me. I watched our portfolio drop 600k in March. It can happen again.

But hey, you do you.
I guess the question is, how much do you spend yearly? We spend $100k-$120k excluding the mortgage. $3 million should more or less cover that spending indefinitely. Why not splurge a little?
investingdad
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by investingdad »

ElBarto wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:02 pm
investingdad wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:25 pm

I'm 46. Our portfolio is just a tad over $3 million and we have maybe 110k in cash. We owe about 180k on our mortgage. Our combined base income is 275k, bonuses can add up to 50k.

I think it's crazy to drop 150k on a car, and I'm coming from almost EXACTLY the same place financially.

But that's me. I watched our portfolio drop 600k in March. It can happen again.

But hey, you do you.
I guess the question is, how much do you spend yearly? We spend $100k-$120k excluding the mortgage. $3 million should more or less cover that spending indefinitely. Why not splurge a little?
120 to 140 a year. Of which 12 is piti.

My old posts will bear this out.
Last edited by investingdad on Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
FireSekr
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by FireSekr »

gator15 wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:19 pm
caffeperfavore wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:54 pm The Audi RS6 Avant is finally coming to the US. Run with the supercars on your way to get bagels, have space to bring more bagels home.

Image

This is what I would get, but I'm weird.
Seeing this put a huge smile on my face. Love the RS Avants. Problem is I'm sure it will cost at least $100k.
And no manual transmission. If they offered a manual I’d be all over this.

Until then, I’ll continue to daily drive my e39 m5
Pinotage
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by Pinotage »

In another somewhat similar thread, I posted the comments below. Think most of them apply to this OP as well.

Good luck OP and enjoy your success!

(and please, please, PLEASE do #4 - you really just have to)
Pinotage wrote: Count me among those enjoying the post and the discussion. Think it is personal/actionable for many on both sides of the debate.

OP: I hope a few things happen for you

1) Spend a lot of time researching exactly what you want. I mean A LOT. Geek out on it. Spreadsheets with cost/mileage/model/etc.., options tables, time using an online configurator, message boards, talking to other owners and prospective owners, cars and coffee, etc...

This is time and process to be thoroughly relished. It is part of what you're buying, don't rush it. This will also help minimize regret of buying the "wrong" car.

2) Prepare your garage. You'll want a nice spot to park. Make it a habit to back the car in to the garage, so when you leave for a drive you'll see the garage door going up.

3) Come up with lists/ideas of different fun things to do with the car. HPDEs, join a local club that does organized drives, look for rallys in your area, vacations that involve organized drives. Do things that will engage with a community of other car enthusiasts. This will help provide some social connections around the car.

4) You and I are (roughly) the same age, so assume we have roughly the same pop culture benchmarks. After you've acquired your car pick out a really nice weather weekend/day off. Get up early. Head to the garage, settle in to the driver's seat, queue up Oh Yeah (Yello) on your phone/bluetooth, and enjoy. Esp if you get a manual transmission.

5) Bookmark this post. A few months/years in the future, come back and update everyone with your decision.

Also, for the love of all things BH, get some snow tires. :sharebeer:
FireSekr
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by FireSekr »

You quoted me earlier saying you would consider getting something like a cayman to start with but don’t want to change cars a few years later.

Keep in mind that if you buy right you won’t suffer much depreciation especially if you get a manual transmission, and you may find you enjoy something cheaper more than you expected.

5 years ago I came pretty close to buying a $65k cayman but couldn’t bring myself to pull the trigger. Today that same car used is selling for about $45-50k in great condition. I still want one and plan on buying but with such low depreciation i regret not buying new a few years ago.

Another interesting anecdote. I was looking to buy something fun to daily and drive in canyons on the weekend, and e46 was top of my list. The seller kept rescheduling our meeting and in the interim I found an E36 which was in excellent condition. I never liked the styling and had very low expectations since it’s the hated middle child between the e30 and e46. I’ve never drove one but thought it would be fun to test drive so I could compare to the e46 and see how the car evolved. I fully intended to test drive the e36 then go buy the e46. Turns out during the test drive I fell in love with the e36 and bought it on the spot. I figured I’d drive it for a while then get something better. Here we are 3 years later and I’ve had other cars come and go but the e36 has earned a permanent place in my garage. It’s by far the best $9k I’ve ever spent, and the car is worth about $15k now so I’ve essentially driven it for free, but I’d never sell it.

Sorry for the long post but what I’m saying is that our should take your time and enjoy the journey and you’ll find some surprises along the way.

Also, If you buy the right car you won’t lose a ton of money. A Ferrari 430 with 6MTMay be $150-200k but it will depreciate less than a run of the mill 911 that costs $100k. And the maintenance isn’t as bad as people here would lead you to believe on the Ferraris since the 360. Go earlier than that and yes, you’ll be burning cash, but since the 360 maintenance is much lower. Or consider an older cayman with manual. They’re depreciated and holding value because there aren’t many manual cars left these days, and the current gen cayman is ruined with the 4cylinder turbo so older ones have held up in value.
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8foot7
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by 8foot7 »

The people who are getting on a

44 year old
with $3 million in the bank
making $300k+/year
who isn't retiring

for dropping a mid-single digit percentage of his net worth on an asset that will retain value need to live a little.
smitcat
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by smitcat »

investingdad wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:15 pm
ElBarto wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:02 pm
investingdad wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:25 pm

I'm 46. Our portfolio is just a tad over $3 million and we have maybe 110k in cash. We owe about 180k on our mortgage. Our combined base income is 275k, bonuses can add up to 50k.

I think it's crazy to drop 150k on a car, and I'm coming from almost EXACTLY the same place financially.

But that's me. I watched our portfolio drop 600k in March. It can happen again.

But hey, you do you.
I guess the question is, how much do you spend yearly? We spend $100k-$120k excluding the mortgage. $3 million should more or less cover that spending indefinitely. Why not splurge a little?
120 to 140 a year. Of which 12 is piti.

My old posts will bear this out.
"120 to 140 a year. Of which 12 is piti."
The only key is "are you happy?"
This post is about which car to buy and/or which cars are best.
Is it possible that you may have some thoughts on which car might fit this goal?
er999
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by er999 »

This is supposed to be the last year for the Lotus Evora (now the Evora GT) as Lotus is supposed to introduce a new model next year. Currently the Evora uses a Toyota engine. The next model likely won't be a Toyota engine since Lotus is now owned by Geely who also owns Volvo. Might not big a big deal for you with your large budget but that is one of the selling points for the Lotus compared to other exotics as you aren't potentially facing a five figure repair bill (worse bill that I have heard from reading lotustalk for the Evora is a clutch replacement at $6,000 but this is a rare occurrence)


I first read about Lotus on bogleheads as being the more boglehead choice for this types of cars and bought a used Lotus Evora 6 months ago. I have been very happy with the purchase. I'm the same age as you and if you have younger kids I would highly recommend it as it has a back seat. If you want a mid-engine sportscar with a back seat your choices are either an Evora or a 911 and the Lotus looks way more exotic. If you have older kids this may not be a big deal but if they are younger (should fit in back if 10 or less) they can come with you for the Sunday bagel run. There's no McLaren with a back seat as far as I know.
bogledogle
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by bogledogle »

Sounds like you are not 100% on this purchase and are still considering it. So here's my advice:

If you want to drive fun or exotic cars, there are many easy and efficient ways to do so. (200K will go a long way)

1) You can join a car club where you pay for membership and "carshare".
2) You can rent them on TURO and other car rentals.
3) You can do track days where a car would be provided to you. (Many track experience services exist. Porsche experience center - if you want to drive a Porsche)
4) You can go on a driving vacations where an exotic car would be provided to you for the length of your trip.

If you want to own, here are the important factors:

1) Depreciation, Upkeep, Maintenance, Insurance
2) If you drive it and enjoy it, you may want more. If it's a garage queen, is it really worth buying in the first place?

It's easy to drop money upfront on an expensive car, but that's just the beginning. Since you are not a 100% on this buy, calculate (1) for the car you want and see if that is palatable and worthwhile for you.


Finally my recommendations:

Alpha Romeo 4C
Lotus Evora
Porsche Cayman GTS
Porsche Cayman GT4
Porsche GT3
alfaspider
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by alfaspider »

er999 wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:53 pm This is supposed to be the last year for the Lotus Evora (now the Evora GT) as Lotus is supposed to introduce a new model next year. Currently the Evora uses a Toyota engine. The next model likely won't be a Toyota engine since Lotus is now owned by Geely who also owns Volvo. Might not big a big deal for you with your large budget but that is one of the selling points for the Lotus compared to other exotics as you aren't potentially facing a five figure repair bill (worse bill that I have heard from reading lotustalk for the Evora is a clutch replacement at $6,000 but this is a rare occurrence)


I first read about Lotus on bogleheads as being the more boglehead choice for this types of cars and bought a used Lotus Evora 6 months ago. I have been very happy with the purchase. I'm the same age as you and if you have younger kids I would highly recommend it as it has a back seat. If you want a mid-engine sportscar with a back seat your choices are either an Evora or a 911 and the Lotus looks way more exotic. If you have older kids this may not be a big deal but if they are younger (should fit in back if 10 or less) they can come with you for the Sunday bagel run. There's no McLaren with a back seat as far as I know.

Keep in mind that just because Lotus uses a Toyota drive train doesn’t mean you get Toyota reliability. Example: a friend of mine has an Exige S. The thermostat went out. On a Toyota, that’s a 15 minute job because it’s front and center. On a Lotus it’s an all-day ordeal ($$$ if you pay a mechanic) because it is extremely difficult to get to.

That said, I do like the Evora 400 quite a bit, and I hear they are deeply discounted if you can find them.

As far as people critiquing the choice: either you are a car guy/gal, or you aren’t. If you aren’t, anything more than a Camry is a frivolous waste of money. But some people are, and it may be worth it to them. Doesn’t sound like OP is in danger of starving or going deep into debt over this choice.
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crystalbank
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by crystalbank »

caffeperfavore wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:54 pm The Audi RS6 Avant is finally coming to the US. Run with the supercars on your way to get bagels, have space to bring more bagels home.

Image

This is what I would get, but I'm weird.
This is really it. End of thread. Unicorn among unicorns.
BruDude
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by BruDude »

crystalbank wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:57 pm
caffeperfavore wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:54 pm The Audi RS6 Avant is finally coming to the US. Run with the supercars on your way to get bagels, have space to bring more bagels home.

Image

This is what I would get, but I'm weird.
This is really it. End of thread. Unicorn among unicorns.
Anything with a turbo engine can’t possibly be the end of the thread.
denovo
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by denovo »

investingdad wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:47 pm Here's my next question...is this sort of car going to fit in with the neighborhood?
That's a weird question. Are the neighbors going to give you a cold shoulder if you have a nicer car than them?
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln
apex84
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by apex84 »

Starts at $109,000 which is less than the RS7. Still no configurator from Audi USA for options. There is a PDF on the web about some standard configurations for the early orders.

https://www.audiusa.com/models/audi-rs6-avant-preview
gator15 wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:19 pm Seeing this put a huge smile on my face. Love the RS Avants. Problem is I'm sure it will cost at least $100k.
Elysium
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by Elysium »

fatcoffeedrinker wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:53 pm
Elysium wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:43 pm
ElBarto wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:31 am invested assets are ~$3.1 million as of Friday. I make $300k-$450k a year. I think what is more important is how much we spend. Ignoring the mortgage which will be paid off before year's end we spend $100k-$120k a year. The current $3.1 million would cover that spending indefinitely. In addition we have our 529 fully covered and should be able to pay for most colleges except maybe the most expensive. I'm sure we can cash flow those if needed. I also promise not to rear end you in my future car. Believe me I don't think I would want to get into an accident with that thing.
Guy makes $300k-$450k a year, yet lives in a $250k home in a neighborhood where possible median household income is less than $100k. I have to be incredibility stupid to believe this stuff, which I am not. Why do people still engage in this fantasy :?:
So he lives below his means when it comes to home location. What is so unbelievable? I live in a HCOL area where my home value is 70% of my annual income and where I make 12x the median household income here. I could live in a VHCOL area closer to the beach, but I choose not to so I can spend on other things. Exotic cars are not my thing, but they are apparently the OP's. Even more reason why he can buy this type of car since he is not house poor.
I am not buying any of it, but hey, it's not my thing if people want to indulge in fantasies and discuss cars all day. I'm outta here.
hunoraut
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by hunoraut »

A Caterham of any spec is going to out-fun virtually every car mentioned so far.
Kagord
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by Kagord »

It's just a little above your range, but a modded Nissan GTR NISMO.

Somewhat of a stock sleeper car, but the goal here (fun) is to have something better than an 8 second car. To get there, this would add around $80K after the $230K out the door purchase price...things such as an Alpha kit, and all the weight reducing and suspension/braking things needed to be at 170-185 mph under 8 seconds. So yeah, a 320K or so toy that 15-20% cheaper and faster than it's counterparts, and you can smile as you blow past them (you did say fun, btw).

Also, I would add a epoxy attached pizza delivery roof mount lighted sign on this sleeper car for effect, you would still beat them with that drag.

If 7 seconds isn't quite good enough, well, there's always more money (basically your entire nest egg) that can be spent to get there: https://youtu.be/gOfM3-x3kGA?t=62
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4nursebee
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by 4nursebee »

Turo rentals a great idea. We did that first.

Tesla 3 performance is a blast.
Model Y might be similar with a touch more practicality as a daily driver.
Best Tesla Model s would be a little faster but lack the new tech look interior.
New roadster can't be had yet... might be worth the wait.
BEst version of the cyber truck suggests 0-60 in 2.9 sec. Perhaps get a truck?
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

bogledogle wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:58 pm
Finally my recommendations:

Alpha Romeo 4C
Lotus Evora
Porsche Cayman GTS
Porsche Cayman GT4
Porsche GT3
Anonima Lombarda Fabbrica Automobili......not the Greek letter. It's an acronym. Sorry.....having owned 3 Alfas, it always feels like nails on the blackboard when people use the Greek letter.

(pre-empting alfaspider coming in to say this)_
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260chrisb
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by 260chrisb »

I get the biggest kick out of these "what should I buy posts" as it relates to exotic cars!! Great fun just to see the suggestions when a multi millionaire wants to spend a bunch of money on a car and posts here for permission and or justification. The OP has plenty of money and wants to spend OVER 150K; I don't think he's thinking in lines of a Corvette, a late '60s Camaro, Tesla, or a Miata as he mentioned a McLaren. Use your SUV or sedan for the bagel runs and to visit dealers or private sellers and start driving some of the cars you desire. You mentioned you like to drive cars on the track; I've done this for years and it helped me understand what I wanted to own so why ask here? In the price range you're talking about just about ANY car will be suitable for the track. Take your time (it's fun), do your homework, understand what you're getting into, drive as many as possible, have any preowned car inspected by a professional, and enjoy! If I were spending at your level I would buy the most useable exotic in the world; some variation of the Porsche 911. For this money; GT3, GT3RS, 911 Turbo. Good luck, let us know what you buy.
apex84
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by apex84 »

I'd focus on trying to best understand what you want. If your preference is an exotic because it's fun to have or it's what you've wanted, then I would stick with a used Ferrari or Lamborghini.

If driving experience is your priority and you might consider track time, then get a Porsche. My pick would be a Cayman GT4 for a mid-engine layout and outstanding chassis. In reality, I would pick a 911 for the AWD system.

An Audi R8 has a lot of the exotic car appeal while retaining good usability as a daily driver. The Acura NSX also provides that balance of mid-engined car with everyday usability. The C8 Corvette is a great choice as well and substantially less expensive.

My personal preference for cars is to have something that gets used a lot rather than sits in a garage and is cool to have. I don't have room for multiple vehicles, so I have to compromise. I want to be able to drive a car that I like, even in everyday life, not just on weekends. Currently, that's an E92 M3. It will probably be an RS6 within a year (not an AMG fan and there is no M5 wagon). I haven't been on a track regularly in years. Even if I go to the track 1-2x/year in the future, I don't care about having an optimized car, but just want to have some fun.
a_movable_life
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by a_movable_life »

bogledogle wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:58 pm Sounds like you are not 100% on this purchase and are still considering it. So here's my advice:

If you want to drive fun or exotic cars, there are many easy and efficient ways to do so. (200K will go a long way)

1) You can join a car club where you pay for membership and "carshare".
2) You can rent them on TURO and other car rentals.
3) You can do track days where a car would be provided to you. (Many track experience services exist. Porsche experience center - if you want to drive a Porsche)
4) You can go on a driving vacations where an exotic car would be provided to you for the length of your trip.
I came here to say this. I watch a youtube channel superspeederrob where the owner of the rental agency talks about his business. He also does exotic car trips where he takes the stable out somewhere and then a bunch of guys and him go out and play. He mentioned that during Coronatimes his rentals were way down because most people rent the cars to be seen at proms and big date nights and not to actually drive them as designed.

Other people have mentioned the maintenance issues with a car designed for performance first and repairs and upkeep second. I think the Bugatti V16 has 16 or 18 drain points and you have to take the rearend of the car off. Many of these cars have dry sump lubrication to get the engine lower in the frame. Same guy above mentions how astronomically expensive the parts are.

Especially since it sounds like you are not a "Specific" car guy, with that car you always wanted. This would give you stable to choose from. It's also a stable that is constantly updated.
caffeperfavore
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by caffeperfavore »

BruDude wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:51 pm
crystalbank wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:57 pm
caffeperfavore wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:54 pm The Audi RS6 Avant is finally coming to the US. Run with the supercars on your way to get bagels, have space to bring more bagels home.

Image

This is what I would get, but I'm weird.
This is really it. End of thread. Unicorn among unicorns.
Anything with a turbo engine can’t possibly be the end of the thread.
Yes, it's a shame they're not still stuffing Lamborghini V10s in these, but I think I could manage with a turbo V8. :D
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crystalbank
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by crystalbank »

BruDude wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:51 pm Anything with a turbo engine can’t possibly be the end of the thread.
You sound like a BMW ad campaign in the 90s. An R8 V10 fits the bill, but I'd still take the RS6 Avant in green please :wink:
BruDude
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by BruDude »

crystalbank wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:45 am
BruDude wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:51 pm Anything with a turbo engine can’t possibly be the end of the thread.
You sound like a BMW ad campaign in the 90s. An R8 V10 fits the bill, but I'd still take the RS6 Avant in green please :wink:
NA will always reign supreme. Can’t stand turbo lag and the sound can’t compare to a high revving NA engine.
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by alfaspider »

apex84 wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:57 am

If driving experience is your priority and you might consider track time, then get a Porsche. My pick would be a Cayman GT4 for a mid-engine layout and outstanding chassis. In reality, I would pick a 911 for the AWD system.
I wouldn't get a Cayman GT4 or 911 for a track car unless you already have a lot of track time under your belt. They are excellent track cars, but they are way too quick for a beginner. It's a bit like buying a Hayabusa for your first motorcycle. Far better to start with something like a Miata, Toyota 86, or even a first gen base Cayman and work your way up on the power scale.
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ElBarto
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by ElBarto »

investingdad wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:15 pm
ElBarto wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:02 pm
investingdad wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:25 pm

I'm 46. Our portfolio is just a tad over $3 million and we have maybe 110k in cash. We owe about 180k on our mortgage. Our combined base income is 275k, bonuses can add up to 50k.

I think it's crazy to drop 150k on a car, and I'm coming from almost EXACTLY the same place financially.

But that's me. I watched our portfolio drop 600k in March. It can happen again.

But hey, you do you.
I guess the question is, how much do you spend yearly? We spend $100k-$120k excluding the mortgage. $3 million should more or less cover that spending indefinitely. Why not splurge a little?
120 to 140 a year. Of which 12 is piti.

My old posts will bear this out.
We are in a similar position, almost. A better comparison would be, you have $180k in cash to cover your mortgage plus another 6 months emergency fund as well as having college for your kids fully paid for and covered. Now imagine yourself with $3.5 million of which if you follow the 4% withdrawal rule, you can pul $140k a year making you financially independent. Your home is as you like it, yard looks like you like it, travel often, and still like your job planing on working for at least another decade. Your $3.5 million will hopefully grow on its own without another dollar of contributions yet you still max out your 401k, HSA, and Roth. From this point on, any additional dollar you make is not necessary so you start looking at ways you can add some joy or experiences in your life. This is the position I am coming from.
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ElBarto
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by ElBarto »

Pinotage wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:19 pm In another somewhat similar thread, I posted the comments below. Think most of them apply to this OP as well.

Good luck OP and enjoy your success!

(and please, please, PLEASE do #4 - you really just have to)
Pinotage wrote: Count me among those enjoying the post and the discussion. Think it is personal/actionable for many on both sides of the debate.

OP: I hope a few things happen for you

1) Spend a lot of time researching exactly what you want. I mean A LOT. Geek out on it. Spreadsheets with cost/mileage/model/etc.., options tables, time using an online configurator, message boards, talking to other owners and prospective owners, cars and coffee, etc...

This is time and process to be thoroughly relished. It is part of what you're buying, don't rush it. This will also help minimize regret of buying the "wrong" car.

2) Prepare your garage. You'll want a nice spot to park. Make it a habit to back the car in to the garage, so when you leave for a drive you'll see the garage door going up.

3) Come up with lists/ideas of different fun things to do with the car. HPDEs, join a local club that does organized drives, look for rallys in your area, vacations that involve organized drives. Do things that will engage with a community of other car enthusiasts. This will help provide some social connections around the car.

4) You and I are (roughly) the same age, so assume we have roughly the same pop culture benchmarks. After you've acquired your car pick out a really nice weather weekend/day off. Get up early. Head to the garage, settle in to the driver's seat, queue up Oh Yeah (Yello) on your phone/bluetooth, and enjoy. Esp if you get a manual transmission.

5) Bookmark this post. A few months/years in the future, come back and update everyone with your decision.

Also, for the love of all things BH, get some snow tires. :sharebeer:
Thanks for the post. Yes, same pop culture and whenever I hear that song I think of Michael J Fox in the secret of my success.

You made me watch the video just now....It is ridiculous.
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ElBarto
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by ElBarto »

FireSekr wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:34 pm You quoted me earlier saying you would consider getting something like a cayman to start with but don’t want to change cars a few years later.

Keep in mind that if you buy right you won’t suffer much depreciation especially if you get a manual transmission, and you may find you enjoy something cheaper more than you expected.

5 years ago I came pretty close to buying a $65k cayman but couldn’t bring myself to pull the trigger. Today that same car used is selling for about $45-50k in great condition. I still want one and plan on buying but with such low depreciation i regret not buying new a few years ago.

Another interesting anecdote. I was looking to buy something fun to daily and drive in canyons on the weekend, and e46 was top of my list. The seller kept rescheduling our meeting and in the interim I found an E36 which was in excellent condition. I never liked the styling and had very low expectations since it’s the hated middle child between the e30 and e46. I’ve never drove one but thought it would be fun to test drive so I could compare to the e46 and see how the car evolved. I fully intended to test drive the e36 then go buy the e46. Turns out during the test drive I fell in love with the e36 and bought it on the spot. I figured I’d drive it for a while then get something better. Here we are 3 years later and I’ve had other cars come and go but the e36 has earned a permanent place in my garage. It’s by far the best $9k I’ve ever spent, and the car is worth about $15k now so I’ve essentially driven it for free, but I’d never sell it.

Sorry for the long post but what I’m saying is that our should take your time and enjoy the journey and you’ll find some surprises along the way.

Also, If you buy the right car you won’t lose a ton of money. A Ferrari 430 with 6MTMay be $150-200k but it will depreciate less than a run of the mill 911 that costs $100k. And the maintenance isn’t as bad as people here would lead you to believe on the Ferraris since the 360. Go earlier than that and yes, you’ll be burning cash, but since the 360 maintenance is much lower. Or consider an older cayman with manual. They’re depreciated and holding value because there aren’t many manual cars left these days, and the current gen cayman is ruined with the 4cylinder turbo so older ones have held up in value.
Thanks for your post. I am keeping an open mind. Saamb (I might have misspelled his name) upthread brought up some very serious points regarding the ownership of these cars which indeed make me think. Also, I did a deep dive last night reading about McLarens and am utterly disappointed regarding their build quality and lack of customer service. Supposedly the 650/675 are maybe the best built cars in that price range so maybe still worth looking at. I wonder if I will learn similar problems with the Lotus Evora 400/gt.

You are also right that the f430 for rent is an F1 transmission not 6MT.

Regarding Caymans, you are referring to the 2016 gts/gt4 models...correct?
FrugalConservative
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by FrugalConservative »

Porsche GT3
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ElBarto
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by ElBarto »

er999 wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:53 pm This is supposed to be the last year for the Lotus Evora (now the Evora GT) as Lotus is supposed to introduce a new model next year. Currently the Evora uses a Toyota engine. The next model likely won't be a Toyota engine since Lotus is now owned by Geely who also owns Volvo. Might not big a big deal for you with your large budget but that is one of the selling points for the Lotus compared to other exotics as you aren't potentially facing a five figure repair bill (worse bill that I have heard from reading lotustalk for the Evora is a clutch replacement at $6,000 but this is a rare occurrence)


I first read about Lotus on bogleheads as being the more boglehead choice for this types of cars and bought a used Lotus Evora 6 months ago. I have been very happy with the purchase. I'm the same age as you and if you have younger kids I would highly recommend it as it has a back seat. If you want a mid-engine sportscar with a back seat your choices are either an Evora or a 911 and the Lotus looks way more exotic. If you have older kids this may not be a big deal but if they are younger (should fit in back if 10 or less) they can come with you for the Sunday bagel run. There's no McLaren with a back seat as far as I know.
Thanks for your post. I honestly don't want or care for a back seat. One of the things that I like about Lotus is that is is more rare on the streets and has that exotic look. Plus I am a big fan of the Elise/Exige platform. How was your customer service thus far? Any issues with reliability in those last 6 months?
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ElBarto
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by ElBarto »

bogledogle wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:58 pm Sounds like you are not 100% on this purchase and are still considering it. So here's my advice:

If you want to drive fun or exotic cars, there are many easy and efficient ways to do so. (200K will go a long way)

1) You can join a car club where you pay for membership and "carshare".
2) You can rent them on TURO and other car rentals.
3) You can do track days where a car would be provided to you. (Many track experience services exist. Porsche experience center - if you want to drive a Porsche)
4) You can go on a driving vacations where an exotic car would be provided to you for the length of your trip.

If you want to own, here are the important factors:

1) Depreciation, Upkeep, Maintenance, Insurance
2) If you drive it and enjoy it, you may want more. If it's a garage queen, is it really worth buying in the first place?

It's easy to drop money upfront on an expensive car, but that's just the beginning. Since you are not a 100% on this buy, calculate (1) for the car you want and see if that is palatable and worthwhile for you.


Finally my recommendations:

Alpha Romeo 4C
Lotus Evora
Porsche Cayman GTS
Porsche Cayman GT4
Porsche GT3
The game plan is to learn...play...learn...play and then buy. I agree the process is part of the fun. I am enjoying just reading and learning about the cars. I am hoping in the next week or two to head out and rent something. I have a few options available to get started on the process in my neighborhood. The key is finding a solid day off to just go cruising and not waste the rental sitting in my driveway.

thanks for your suggestions.
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ElBarto
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by ElBarto »

apex84 wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:57 am I'd focus on trying to best understand what you want. If your preference is an exotic because it's fun to have or it's what you've wanted, then I would stick with a used Ferrari or Lamborghini.

If driving experience is your priority and you might consider track time, then get a Porsche. My pick would be a Cayman GT4 for a mid-engine layout and outstanding chassis. In reality, I would pick a 911 for the AWD system.

An Audi R8 has a lot of the exotic car appeal while retaining good usability as a daily driver. The Acura NSX also provides that balance of mid-engined car with everyday usability. The C8 Corvette is a great choice as well and substantially less expensive.

My personal preference for cars is to have something that gets used a lot rather than sits in a garage and is cool to have. I don't have room for multiple vehicles, so I have to compromise. I want to be able to drive a car that I like, even in everyday life, not just on weekends. Currently, that's an E92 M3. It will probably be an RS6 within a year (not an AMG fan and there is no M5 wagon). I haven't been on a track regularly in years. Even if I go to the track 1-2x/year in the future, I don't care about having an optimized car, but just want to have some fun.
Regarding the Gt4 vs 911. I realize the 911 is the "superior" car by so many enthusiasts, but I love the mid engine 2 seater that is the cayman. The Gt4 and maybe a good option and far lower in my price range. Appears to be priced relatively similar to the Evora 400. I know I said $150k-$200k but I guess I am looking for a car that fits my needs for under $200k.

I will definitely be looking at the R8 and NSX. The R8 was my number 2 choice after the Mclaren with regards to style and engine.

Also, I love your name. Gives me the feel like you know what your talking about :)
mtwhmemn
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by mtwhmemn »

From the OP:

-relatively fun to

-drive legally

-not a lot of depreciation in the short term (I think it was said somewhere)

I'm a car guy. I've owned sports cars most of my life (I'm 57) and with the 3 criteria above you can eliminate modern Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Bentley, etc...because they are either too powerful or too heavy or both. That combo is not fun for street driving.

Your criteria falls under the category of "it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow".

MIata
S2000

Both cars are light, not too fast to have relatively legal fun. If you find a low mileage S2000 CR you could easiy spend $100,000. If you buy right it'll go up in value too. Same for a first gen NSX.

On your budget if you go heavier than you can buy a lot in new/used Porsches. A Cayman would closely satisfy your criteria on the lower end. GT3, etc...are fun too but they are new and numb and disconnected compared to say, a 90s analogue car like an RX7 or NSX.

I think you need to decide if you want a heavy modern car or an older, lighter car.

Think "lightest car with the best power to weight ratio" = more fun and less risk of losing your licence.
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by apex84 »

Agree with alfaspider on the GT4 if you're serious about the track. If I had the time and interest, I would just get a track Miata to start. I started out with an Audi with < 200 HP and it was plenty to learn. If you're considering the track with any of these, be sure to learn about steel vs ceramic brakes in terms of track wear and running costs.

I'm not a Porsche diehard, but the mid-engine layout of the Cayman appeals to me more than the 911. Having said that, the 911 has evolved into an easy to drive car and has every possible variant to get the car you want (at a price). The 911 has an amazing heritage and racing history. When I was younger, my dream car was the 959, not the flashier Ferraris and Lamborghinis.
ElBarto wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:33 pm Regarding the Gt4 vs 911. I realize the 911 is the "superior" car by so many enthusiasts, but I love the mid engine 2 seater that is the cayman. The Gt4 and maybe a good option and far lower in my price range. Appears to be priced relatively similar to the Evora 400. I know I said $150k-$200k but I guess I am looking for a car that fits my needs for under $200k.

I will definitely be looking at the R8 and NSX. The R8 was my number 2 choice after the Mclaren with regards to style and engine.

Also, I love your name. Gives me the feel like you know what your talking about :)
alfaspider wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:09 amI wouldn't get a Cayman GT4 or 911 for a track car unless you already have a lot of track time under your belt. They are excellent track cars, but they are way too quick for a beginner. It's a bit like buying a Hayabusa for your first motorcycle. Far better to start with something like a Miata, Toyota 86, or even a first gen base Cayman and work your way up on the power scale.
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by FireSekr »

ElBarto wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:08 pm
FireSekr wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:34 pm You quoted me earlier saying you would consider getting something like a cayman to start with but don’t want to change cars a few years later.

Keep in mind that if you buy right you won’t suffer much depreciation especially if you get a manual transmission, and you may find you enjoy something cheaper more than you expected.

5 years ago I came pretty close to buying a $65k cayman but couldn’t bring myself to pull the trigger. Today that same car used is selling for about $45-50k in great condition. I still want one and plan on buying but with such low depreciation i regret not buying new a few years ago.

Another interesting anecdote. I was looking to buy something fun to daily and drive in canyons on the weekend, and e46 was top of my list. The seller kept rescheduling our meeting and in the interim I found an E36 which was in excellent condition. I never liked the styling and had very low expectations since it’s the hated middle child between the e30 and e46. I’ve never drove one but thought it would be fun to test drive so I could compare to the e46 and see how the car evolved. I fully intended to test drive the e36 then go buy the e46. Turns out during the test drive I fell in love with the e36 and bought it on the spot. I figured I’d drive it for a while then get something better. Here we are 3 years later and I’ve had other cars come and go but the e36 has earned a permanent place in my garage. It’s by far the best $9k I’ve ever spent, and the car is worth about $15k now so I’ve essentially driven it for free, but I’d never sell it.

Sorry for the long post but what I’m saying is that our should take your time and enjoy the journey and you’ll find some surprises along the way.

Also, If you buy the right car you won’t lose a ton of money. A Ferrari 430 with 6MTMay be $150-200k but it will depreciate less than a run of the mill 911 that costs $100k. And the maintenance isn’t as bad as people here would lead you to believe on the Ferraris since the 360. Go earlier than that and yes, you’ll be burning cash, but since the 360 maintenance is much lower. Or consider an older cayman with manual. They’re depreciated and holding value because there aren’t many manual cars left these days, and the current gen cayman is ruined with the 4cylinder turbo so older ones have held up in value.
Thanks for your post. I am keeping an open mind. Saamb (I might have misspelled his name) upthread brought up some very serious points regarding the ownership of these cars which indeed make me think. Also, I did a deep dive last night reading about McLarens and am utterly disappointed regarding their build quality and lack of customer service. Supposedly the 650/675 are maybe the best built cars in that price range so maybe still worth looking at. I wonder if I will learn similar problems with the Lotus Evora 400/gt.

You are also right that the f430 for rent is an F1 transmission not 6MT.

Regarding Caymans, you are referring to the 2016 gts/gt4 models...correct?
Yeah, I like McLaren but the depreciation on them is horrible for a reason. A Ferrari is likely the better choice from a financial perspective.

Go ahead and rent the F430 with F1...you'll still get a good idea what the car is about even if you plan on going for the 6MT, but personally if I were buying I'd go with 6mt.

On the Cayman, yes, I'm talking about the 981 generation which was from 2014-2016. The entire model range from that generation has the 6 cylinder that Porsche is known for and the engine is rock solid (don't have the IMS issues that the first gen (987) cayman/boxter has. No matter which model you get from base cayman to GT4 will be fun and enjoyable, but you should think honestly how you will drive it to suit your needs. For example, I know that I would mostly use it as a road trip weekend type car with occasional track use, so the GTS would be better suited to my needs than a GT4. If you plan on spending more of your time on the track than on the street, the GT4 would be the better choice.

The current gen Cayman is the 718. They used a 4-cylinder engine in the base and S models, and even the GTS up to 2019 which is very capable but lacking in theatre and not very satisfying from an engagement perspective. If all you care about is performance, then its fine, but to me, its more about the experience and I find the sound and the turbo lag to be big enough impediments to my enjoyment of this generation. The way around it though is that for 2021, the GTS has brought back the 6 cylinder, and of course the GT4 was always 6 cylinder.
Last edited by FireSekr on Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ElBarto
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by ElBarto »

mtwhmemn wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:42 pm From the OP:

-relatively fun to

-drive legally

-not a lot of depreciation in the short term (I think it was said somewhere)

I'm a car guy. I've owned sports cars most of my life (I'm 57) and with the 3 criteria above you can eliminate modern Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Bentley, etc...because they are either too powerful or too heavy or both. That combo is not fun for street driving.

Your criteria falls under the category of "it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow".

MIata
S2000

Both cars are light, not too fast to have relatively legal fun. If you find a low mileage S2000 CR you could easiy spend $100,000. If you buy right it'll go up in value too. Same for a first gen NSX.

On your budget if you go heavier than you can buy a lot in new/used Porsches. A Cayman would closely satisfy your criteria on the lower end. GT3, etc...are fun too but they are new and numb and disconnected compared to say, a 90s analogue car like an RX7 or NSX.

I think you need to decide if you want a heavy modern car or an older, lighter car.

Think "lightest car with the best power to weight ratio" = more fun and less risk of losing your licence.
There is only 1 car that fits your description of "lightest car with the best power to weight ratio. I think it is the Lotus Exige S/240/260.

Since you bought it up. The Miata feels a bit too cramped in the footwell. I think it was designed for a smaller foot than mine.
S2000 not a lot of quality models that I see out today unless like you said I am looking at the rare CR which has a pretty high price tag (maybe rightfully so.) I did drive one (not CR) and it was a blast. Love the high revving engine.
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by ElBarto »

apex84 wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:00 pm Agree with alfaspider on the GT4 if you're serious about the track. If I had the time and interest, I would just get a track Miata to start. I started out with an Audi with < 200 HP and it was plenty to learn. If you're considering the track with any of these, be sure to learn about steel vs ceramic brakes in terms of track wear and running costs.

I'm not a Porsche diehard, but the mid-engine layout of the Cayman appeals to me more than the 911. Having said that, the 911 has evolved into an easy to drive car and has every possible variant to get the car you want (at a price). The 911 has an amazing heritage and racing history. When I was younger, my dream car was the 959, not the flashier Ferraris and Lamborghinis.
ElBarto wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:33 pm Regarding the Gt4 vs 911. I realize the 911 is the "superior" car by so many enthusiasts, but I love the mid engine 2 seater that is the cayman. The Gt4 and maybe a good option and far lower in my price range. Appears to be priced relatively similar to the Evora 400. I know I said $150k-$200k but I guess I am looking for a car that fits my needs for under $200k.

I will definitely be looking at the R8 and NSX. The R8 was my number 2 choice after the Mclaren with regards to style and engine.

Also, I love your name. Gives me the feel like you know what your talking about :)
alfaspider wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:09 amI wouldn't get a Cayman GT4 or 911 for a track car unless you already have a lot of track time under your belt. They are excellent track cars, but they are way too quick for a beginner. It's a bit like buying a Hayabusa for your first motorcycle. Far better to start with something like a Miata, Toyota 86, or even a first gen base Cayman and work your way up on the power scale.
You brought it up. My current daily driver was my 3rd fun car and I drove an old beater to work. The beater is now is beater heaven and this car is my DD. It is a B8 Audi S4. APR tune, suspension and brakes. Unfortunately the car is a dual clutch. It is my mistake when I bought it thinking it would be faster but not realizing how less fun it is. I have done quite a few HPDE events. The biggest downside with this car is its weight. The sports differential helps it around the turns but no matter what the car weight 4000 pounds, chews up breaks and oversteers.
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ElBarto
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by ElBarto »

FireSekr wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:02 pm
ElBarto wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:08 pm
FireSekr wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:34 pm You quoted me earlier saying you would consider getting something like a cayman to start with but don’t want to change cars a few years later.

Keep in mind that if you buy right you won’t suffer much depreciation especially if you get a manual transmission, and you may find you enjoy something cheaper more than you expected.

5 years ago I came pretty close to buying a $65k cayman but couldn’t bring myself to pull the trigger. Today that same car used is selling for about $45-50k in great condition. I still want one and plan on buying but with such low depreciation i regret not buying new a few years ago.

Another interesting anecdote. I was looking to buy something fun to daily and drive in canyons on the weekend, and e46 was top of my list. The seller kept rescheduling our meeting and in the interim I found an E36 which was in excellent condition. I never liked the styling and had very low expectations since it’s the hated middle child between the e30 and e46. I’ve never drove one but thought it would be fun to test drive so I could compare to the e46 and see how the car evolved. I fully intended to test drive the e36 then go buy the e46. Turns out during the test drive I fell in love with the e36 and bought it on the spot. I figured I’d drive it for a while then get something better. Here we are 3 years later and I’ve had other cars come and go but the e36 has earned a permanent place in my garage. It’s by far the best $9k I’ve ever spent, and the car is worth about $15k now so I’ve essentially driven it for free, but I’d never sell it.

Sorry for the long post but what I’m saying is that our should take your time and enjoy the journey and you’ll find some surprises along the way.

Also, If you buy the right car you won’t lose a ton of money. A Ferrari 430 with 6MTMay be $150-200k but it will depreciate less than a run of the mill 911 that costs $100k. And the maintenance isn’t as bad as people here would lead you to believe on the Ferraris since the 360. Go earlier than that and yes, you’ll be burning cash, but since the 360 maintenance is much lower. Or consider an older cayman with manual. They’re depreciated and holding value because there aren’t many manual cars left these days, and the current gen cayman is ruined with the 4cylinder turbo so older ones have held up in value.
Thanks for your post. I am keeping an open mind. Saamb (I might have misspelled his name) upthread brought up some very serious points regarding the ownership of these cars which indeed make me think. Also, I did a deep dive last night reading about McLarens and am utterly disappointed regarding their build quality and lack of customer service. Supposedly the 650/675 are maybe the best built cars in that price range so maybe still worth looking at. I wonder if I will learn similar problems with the Lotus Evora 400/gt.

You are also right that the f430 for rent is an F1 transmission not 6MT.

Regarding Caymans, you are referring to the 2016 gts/gt4 models...correct?
Yeah, I like McLaren but the depreciation on them is horrible for a reason. A Ferrari is likely the better choice from a financial perspective.

Go ahead and rent the F430 with F1...you'll still get a good idea what the car is about even if you plan on going for the 6MT, but personally if I were buying I'd go with 6mt.

On the Cayman, yes, I'm talking about the 981 generation which was from 2014-2016. The entire model range from that generation has the 6 cylinder that Porsche is known for and the engine is rock solid (don't have the IMS issues that the first gen (987) cayman/boxter has. No matter which model you get from base cayman to GT4 will be fun and enjoyable, but you should think honestly how you will drive it to suit your needs. For example, I know that I would mostly use it as a road trip weekend type car with occasional track use, so the GTS would be better suited to my needs than a GT4. If you plan on spending more of your time on the track than on the street, the GT4 would be the better choice.

The current gen Cayman is the 718. They used a 4-cylinder engine in the base and S models, and even the GTS up to 2019 which is very capable but lacking in theatre and not very satisfying from an engagement perspective. If all you care about is performance, then its fine, but to me, its more about the experience and I find the sound and the turbo lag to be big enough impediments to my enjoyment of this generation. The way around it though is that for 2021, the GTS has brought back the 6 cylinder, and of course the GT4 was always 6 cylinder.
Thanks for all the info and real help. I appreciate it immensely.
mtwhmemn
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by mtwhmemn »

ElBarto wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:04 pm
mtwhmemn wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:42 pm From the OP:

-relatively fun to

-drive legally

-not a lot of depreciation in the short term (I think it was said somewhere)

I'm a car guy. I've owned sports cars most of my life (I'm 57) and with the 3 criteria above you can eliminate modern Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Bentley, etc...because they are either too powerful or too heavy or both. That combo is not fun for street driving.

Your criteria falls under the category of "it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow".

MIata
S2000

Both cars are light, not too fast to have relatively legal fun. If you find a low mileage S2000 CR you could easiy spend $100,000. If you buy right it'll go up in value too. Same for a first gen NSX.

On your budget if you go heavier than you can buy a lot in new/used Porsches. A Cayman would closely satisfy your criteria on the lower end. GT3, etc...are fun too but they are new and numb and disconnected compared to say, a 90s analogue car like an RX7 or NSX.

I think you need to decide if you want a heavy modern car or an older, lighter car.

Think "lightest car with the best power to weight ratio" = more fun and less risk of losing your licence.
There is only 1 car that fits your description of "lightest car with the best power to weight ratio. I think it is the Lotus Exige S/240/260.

Since you bought it up. The Miata feels a bit too cramped in the footwell. I think it was designed for a smaller foot than mine.
S2000 not a lot of quality models that I see out today unless like you said I am looking at the rare CR which has a pretty high price tag (maybe rightfully so.) I did drive one (not CR) and it was a blast. Love the high revving engine.
I'd love to drive an Exige, buy not daily, ha! As I'm a Boglehead I tend to put a high value on low maintenance costs, reliability and appreciation. I've also been a Honda fan since my first new one in '85, a CRX. I currently own 2 mid engine Honda products. Light, quick and currently appreciating.
investingdad
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by investingdad »

ElBarto wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:46 am
investingdad wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:15 pm
ElBarto wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:02 pm
investingdad wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:25 pm

I'm 46. Our portfolio is just a tad over $3 million and we have maybe 110k in cash. We owe about 180k on our mortgage. Our combined base income is 275k, bonuses can add up to 50k.

I think it's crazy to drop 150k on a car, and I'm coming from almost EXACTLY the same place financially.

But that's me. I watched our portfolio drop 600k in March. It can happen again.

But hey, you do you.
I guess the question is, how much do you spend yearly? We spend $100k-$120k excluding the mortgage. $3 million should more or less cover that spending indefinitely. Why not splurge a little?
120 to 140 a year. Of which 12 is piti.

My old posts will bear this out.
We are in a similar position, almost. A better comparison would be, you have $180k in cash to cover your mortgage plus another 6 months emergency fund as well as having college for your kids fully paid for and covered. Now imagine yourself with $3.5 million of which if you follow the 4% withdrawal rule, you can pul $140k a year making you financially independent. Your home is as you like it, yard looks like you like it, travel often, and still like your job planing on working for at least another decade. Your $3.5 million will hopefully grow on its own without another dollar of contributions yet you still max out your 401k, HSA, and Roth. From this point on, any additional dollar you make is not necessary so you start looking at ways you can add some joy or experiences in your life. This is the position I am coming from.

One month ago, you noted that your portfolio was $3 million.

Now you are saying it's $3.5 million.

Do I believe this? Yes, I'd say it's quite believable because of the increase I've seen in our own portfolio.

And that's where I hit the 'all stop'. By your own account, your portfolio has gyrated near $1 million over 60 days, just like ours has. Which means you were likely bottomed out at maybe $2.7 million back in March.

And you're going to use that to cover 120k expenses for 45+ years. And you want to drop 200k on a car?

Folks that are calling $3 million and a household income of 300k a multimillionaire type situation that can easily drop 200k on a car are not even close, in my opinion.

Are you and I fortunate and comfortable? Extremely.

But 200k car territory? Not even close.

Look, I don't care what you do. But when I figured out we're the same age, have near the same portfolio, and have a sort of similar household income (we brought in 315k last year, so you're higher than us), and you're thinking 200k car? I almost choked on my coffee.
investingdad
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by investingdad »

OP,

I'm not trying to be belligerent and I apologize if I came off that way. I think I'm just having a hard time rationalizing that kind of purchase given our similar situations.
BruDude
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by BruDude »

All roads lead back to the 911. One drive in a GT3/RS and you will be sold. There’s really nothing else like it.

The 981 Boxster/Cayman GTS is also an amazing fun to drive car that sounds great, looks great, and is easy to drive. $55-75k range, whole lot of money left over.

All of the above have great resale. A manual 991.2 GT3 is right in your target range or slightly under too.
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ElBarto
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Re: What fun car should I get in the $150k - $200k range?

Post by ElBarto »

investingdad wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:24 pm
ElBarto wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:46 am
investingdad wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:15 pm
ElBarto wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:02 pm
investingdad wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:25 pm

I'm 46. Our portfolio is just a tad over $3 million and we have maybe 110k in cash. We owe about 180k on our mortgage. Our combined base income is 275k, bonuses can add up to 50k.

I think it's crazy to drop 150k on a car, and I'm coming from almost EXACTLY the same place financially.

But that's me. I watched our portfolio drop 600k in March. It can happen again.

But hey, you do you.
I guess the question is, how much do you spend yearly? We spend $100k-$120k excluding the mortgage. $3 million should more or less cover that spending indefinitely. Why not splurge a little?
120 to 140 a year. Of which 12 is piti.

My old posts will bear this out.
We are in a similar position, almost. A better comparison would be, you have $180k in cash to cover your mortgage plus another 6 months emergency fund as well as having college for your kids fully paid for and covered. Now imagine yourself with $3.5 million of which if you follow the 4% withdrawal rule, you can pul $140k a year making you financially independent. Your home is as you like it, yard looks like you like it, travel often, and still like your job planing on working for at least another decade. Your $3.5 million will hopefully grow on its own without another dollar of contributions yet you still max out your 401k, HSA, and Roth. From this point on, any additional dollar you make is not necessary so you start looking at ways you can add some joy or experiences in your life. This is the position I am coming from.

One month ago, you noted that your portfolio was $3 million.

Now you are saying it's $3.5 million.

Do I believe this? Yes, I'd say it's quite believable because of the increase I've seen in our own portfolio.

And that's where I hit the 'all stop'. By your own account, your portfolio has gyrated near $1 million over 60 days, just like ours has. Which means you were likely bottomed out at maybe $2.7 million back in March.

And you're going to use that to cover 120k expenses for 45+ years. And you want to drop 200k on a car?

Folks that are calling $3 million and a household income of 300k a multimillionaire type situation that can easily drop 200k on a car are not even close, in my opinion.

Are you and I fortunate and comfortable? Extremely.

But 200k car territory? Not even close.

Look, I don't care what you do. But when I figured out we're the same age, have near the same portfolio, and have a sort of similar household income (we brought in 315k last year, so you're higher than us), and you're thinking 200k car? I almost choked on my coffee.
Hits hand on forehead.
Noooo...

I was comparing what my situation looks like to me and putting a scenario that would look similar to you.

Sorry for the confusion.

Anyways. I consider ourselves financially independent. Any new money that comes is is just gravy on top at this point. I guess I am less conservative than you are. Which is fine....personal finance is personal.
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