To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

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KlangFool
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by KlangFool »

beyou wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:50 am
I used to manage IT for a small company where I dealt with telecom (and all) vendors.
Verizon had MANY outages. Often on a Friday our internet service would go down, leaving my customers unable to access our online services. I would call for service, sometimes they would say "too late on a Friday, we'll take a look Monday".
bayou,

I included phone service with my DSL and Verizon FiOS. I know that every phone service failure will be reported to the local PUC and FCC. This requirement does not exist for the Phone service with the cable service provider.

KlangFool
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Artful Dodger
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by Artful Dodger »

I’m paying for 25 download. I don’t recall the upload. That’s through AT&T Uverse, and its the maximum they offer in my area. I’ve run a test through the computer connected by Ethernet and it sometimes comes out at 27. Really, though, it works fine. We can stream three devices at a time, and do multiple zoom sessions on our Wi-Fi and no problem. I checked the AT&T app and we're potentially connecting to 13 different devices - all the computers, iPhones, iPads, Ring doorbell, data center in our new fridge, the Apple TV, and the regular TV service.

I still have that nagging feeling, though, that I don’t have enough, and want more. Kind of like my investing. :?
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beyou
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by beyou »

KlangFool wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:43 am
beyou wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:50 am
I used to manage IT for a small company where I dealt with telecom (and all) vendors.
Verizon had MANY outages. Often on a Friday our internet service would go down, leaving my customers unable to access our online services. I would call for service, sometimes they would say "too late on a Friday, we'll take a look Monday".
bayou,

I included phone service with my DSL and Verizon FiOS. I know that every phone service failure will be reported to the local PUC and FCC. This requirement does not exist for the Phone service with the cable service provider.

KlangFool
I use FREE voip phone service, so no need to pay Verizon nor cable. Works fine, and is only a backup to cell phone anyway.

As far as internet service :

Works = no need to report problems to anyone
Does not work = report to regulator & vendor and still no service

I will take works over does not work, regardless of regulation.

In the past I had massive problems with dedicated internet circuit from Verizon at work, and while maybe somebody at the FCC
cares, nobody at Verizon cared that the service was frequently down. Maybe they are treating fines as a cost of doing business.
Regulations don't always solve the problem intended. How many people drive under the speed limit ? If you are rich, you can pay the speeding tickets and higher insurance, and Verizon is rich. Go for the best provider of service regardless of regulations.
If Verizon is that provider then fine, but sometimes they are not. They need to compete on quality of service
to get my business, regulations are insufficient incentive to do their jobs. And the regulations you refer to don't even address their billing practices that are criminally misleading and/or incompetent at times. I have heard that about FIOS specifically (not Wireless bills).
KlangFool
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by KlangFool »

beyou wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:30 am

I will take works over does not work, regardless of regulation.

In the past I had massive problems with dedicated internet circuit from Verizon at work, and while maybe somebody at the FCC
cares, nobody at Verizon cared that the service was frequently down. Maybe they are treating fines as a cost of doing business.
beyou,

You did not get my point. The internet service is not regulated. The phone service over the DSL and/or Verizon FiOS is regulated.

Hence, if you have a phone line over the DSL and/or Verizon Fios, the connection would be regulated. The phone service failure over the DSL and/or Verizon Fios is monitored and reported regularly to the local PUC and FCC. Verizon will pay a fine and penalty for the phone service failure. They cannot afford to let the failure last a long time.

VoIP is not subjected to the same requirement.

A Verizon DSL/Fios connection with phone service has a higher regulatory reliability requirement that the one without.

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beyou
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by beyou »

KlangFool wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:46 am
beyou wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:30 am

I will take works over does not work, regardless of regulation.

In the past I had massive problems with dedicated internet circuit from Verizon at work, and while maybe somebody at the FCC
cares, nobody at Verizon cared that the service was frequently down. Maybe they are treating fines as a cost of doing business.
beyou,

You did not get my point. The internet service is not regulated. The phone service over the DSL and/or Verizon FiOS is regulated.

Hence, if you have a phone line over the DSL and/or Verizon Fios, the connection would be regulated. The phone service failure over the DSL and/or Verizon Fios is monitored and reported regularly to the local PUC and FCC. Verizon will pay a fine and penalty for the phone service failure. They cannot afford to let the failure last a long time.

VoIP is not subjected to the same requirement.

A Verizon DSL/Fios connection with phone service has a higher regulatory reliability requirement that the one without.

KlangFool
And you are not getting my point, regulatory requirements don't matter.
People break the rules all the time and disregard fines.
What matters is good or bad service, not HOW they got there.
KlangFool
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by KlangFool »

beyou wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:49 am
And you are not getting my point, regulatory requirements don't matter.
People break the rules all the time and disregard fines.
What matters is good or bad service, not HOW they got there.
bayou,

I work in the Telecom industry. I know that not to be true in regards to the phone service. As for Internet service, there is no rule to be broken.

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beyou
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by beyou »

KlangFool wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:58 am
beyou wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:49 am
And you are not getting my point, regulatory requirements don't matter.
People break the rules all the time and disregard fines.
What matters is good or bad service, not HOW they got there.
bayou,

I work in the Telecom industry. I know that not to be true in regards to the phone service. As for Internet service, there is no rule to be broken.

KlangFool
Well I switched from Verizon land line years ago to cable company land line in my home specifically because it was failing regularly and they were not responding quickly to fix it. My cable land line NEVER failed, not even once, for years. I only gave it up to reduce costs and use my cell phone mainly, but the service was MUCH MUCH better from the cable company. I don't care if regulated, I got better service for a landline.

Verizon and most telcos want to get rid of the old copper landlines, and while they can't force you to give it up, they can neglect to the point you give it up voluntarily. They DID THIS, I am not speculating. If they pay a fine, they will save money not having to maintain the landline any longer, and avoid future regulation when you use your cell phone instead. Your ideas are based on the distant past when they had no competition and no other products to sell you.
KlangFool
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by KlangFool »

beyou wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:02 am
KlangFool wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:58 am
beyou wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:49 am
And you are not getting my point, regulatory requirements don't matter.
People break the rules all the time and disregard fines.
What matters is good or bad service, not HOW they got there.
bayou,

I work in the Telecom industry. I know that not to be true in regards to the phone service. As for Internet service, there is no rule to be broken.

KlangFool
Well I switched from Verizon land line years ago to cable company land line in my home specifically because it was failing regularly and they were not responding quickly to fix it. My cable land line NEVER failed, not even once, for years. I only gave it up to reduce costs and use my cell phone mainly, but the service was MUCH MUCH better from the cable company. I don't care if regulated, I got better service for a landline.

Verizon and most telcos want to get rid of the old copper landlines, and while they can't force you to give it up, they can neglect to the point you give it up voluntarily. They DID THIS, I am not speculating. If they pay a fine, they will save money not having to maintain the landline any longer, and avoid future regulation when you use your cell phone instead. Your ideas are based on the distant past when they had no competition and no other products to sell you.
bayou,

Cellphone service with voice reliability is regulated too.

<<Verizon and most telcos want to get rid of the old copper landlines, >>

That is true.

KlangFool
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by mathwhiz »

We live out in the country with no wired option for service. No Cable. No DSL. We use hughesnet satellite internet. Speeds are 25mbps/3mbps upload with a 50 GB monthly data cap then the speeds throttle down to 1 mbps-3 mbps. In practice, the satellite beams are congested so you never see the 25 mbps speeds except in the middle of the night. During the pandemic, speeds are well below 10mbs all the time because of congestion. Latency or ping is also 600 ms which is 10-20 times terrestrial internet.

Browsing the internet works like this. You click on a link and then wait for your request to go 22,000 miles to space then back to the gateway on Earth then back to space then back to your home satellite receiver/wifi. It results in a lot of lag and hangups regardless of speed. You click on a link and then wait sometimes many seconds before anything happens for pages to load. Lots of atmospheric problems with clouds and rain where the interent stops working too. It can be hours of outages in heavy storms. VPN's are dreadfully slow with only chat IM's and emails working well. Huge lag and 2 or 3 second delays with video chat when it works. Streaming works ok but you can't stream HD or your data cap is hit in days so we stream at 480p or 360p to save data. We also take advantage of the 2AM-8AM bonus data periods where they give us an extra 50 GB data cap to download lots of tv shows and movies from netflix to our phones and then use smart view to beam the shows to the TV to watch later.

There's lots of strategizing and thinking involved to maximize your limited bandwidth.

I use my cellular phone hotspot for WFH because the satellite internet is terrible with my VPN and I can't be out of service for hours when it rains. The speeds through the hotspot are only around 5 mbps up/2mbps down but the ping is well under 100ms so the video conferencing and everything works well, VPN works well. Speed isn't everything I've found out. Latency is the biggest issue. I'm able to WFH quite well on 5mbps cellular hotspot.
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beyou
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by beyou »

KlangFool wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:09 am
beyou wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:02 am
KlangFool wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:58 am
beyou wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:49 am
And you are not getting my point, regulatory requirements don't matter.
People break the rules all the time and disregard fines.
What matters is good or bad service, not HOW they got there.
bayou,

I work in the Telecom industry. I know that not to be true in regards to the phone service. As for Internet service, there is no rule to be broken.

KlangFool
Well I switched from Verizon land line years ago to cable company land line in my home specifically because it was failing regularly and they were not responding quickly to fix it. My cable land line NEVER failed, not even once, for years. I only gave it up to reduce costs and use my cell phone mainly, but the service was MUCH MUCH better from the cable company. I don't care if regulated, I got better service for a landline.

Verizon and most telcos want to get rid of the old copper landlines, and while they can't force you to give it up, they can neglect to the point you give it up voluntarily. They DID THIS, I am not speculating. If they pay a fine, they will save money not having to maintain the landline any longer, and avoid future regulation when you use your cell phone instead. Your ideas are based on the distant past when they had no competition and no other products to sell you.
bayou,

Cellphone service with voice reliability is regulated too.

<<Verizon and most telcos want to get rid of the old copper landlines, >>

That is true.

KlangFool
Well the quality of service is bad at times for most cell phone providers. People often discuss this online and often say
Verizon is the best quality. I have issues with Verizon cell phone voice quality at times and don't switch because people say the
coverage and quality can be even worse with others. So clearly regulations <> quality provided.

No way I would get DSL. Would rather have unregulated fiber internet service and VOIP.
Cheaper, better and no regulation needed to have good service.
Ron
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by Ron »

onourway wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:20 pm<snip...> LOL. Around us you are lucky to get an unreliable 10Mbps from Verizon or the other local telecoms whereas Spectrum offers up to 1Gbps and our total down time over 15 years in this house can be measured in hours!
I had to laugh at that one!

I'm currently on Verizon DSL and pay $31.99 (plus tax/fees) for a service that is actually rated at 1.24/0.66 Mbps download/upload speed (using SpeedTest) using their "Enhanced" Internet Package with rated speeds of 1.1 - 3 Mbps. Since I'm at 1.24 vs their 1.1 advertised speed, they are still "legal".

We only use it for two PC's (desktop/laptop) up to this point. We use Dish for our TV service (quite happy with it, TYVM) but I just subscribed to HBO NOW streaming (Dish dropped it from their lineup a couple of years ago due to a contract dispute) on our smart TV. That, along with my wife using Zoom for her church ladies and Zumba meetings we're starting to get frequent delays (magic circle :annoyed ).

Verizon doesn't offer an alternative; we're too much "out in the sticks" for them to run FIOS.

Our cell phones work well since we're near an interstate with towers all over the place (at least, until 5G takes off). Our T-Mobile "old folks" plan gives us unlimited services so we never have them turned on to WiFi unless we're possibly traveling, T-Mobile isn't available, and we're staying at a hotel or ship that offers WiFi.

Yesterday, I ordered a cable modem via Amazon (arrives tomorrow, and I'm not a Prime customer!) and will have it installed next week by a local cable company, along with a 25Mbps download plan (they also offer a 10Mbps package, but I figured what the heck). Their cost is $37.70 (plus tax) for an intro 5% 3 year plan, just slightly more than what I'm currently paying for internet from Verizon.

Hookup will be easy. We had them as the single supplier when we had our house built many years ago so everything is already pre-wired. They just have to reconnect at the cable junction box and plug the modem/Wi-Fi box I'm getting tomorrow. The only reason I changed from the cable company to Dish was that many years ago when we purchased our first HD TV they could not provide an HD signal and were always promising to upgrade the service. However that didn't happen till many years later. By that time, I was quite satisfied with our Dish Network service and did not see any advantage in changing suppliers.

FWIW,

- Ron
furwut
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by furwut »

Verizon FIOS 50/50 ‘cause it’s included as an apartment amenity. Verizon has temporarily upped this to 1 Gb thru June for free. Can’t say I see a big difference for me.

Prior to this I has Comcast 10/3 or something. Adequate for my needs when it was up, but oh the Comcast service :annoyed .
Last edited by furwut on Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FrugiWan
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by FrugiWan »

We just had Fiber installed at the end of May. Prior to that, we had no options that are worthwhile.

As some have recently discussed, satellite is useless due to latency / ping. Does it work better than “nothing”, sure. The cost for satellite where I live is equal to the 1000/50 service via Fiber (no brainer).

We selected the 1000/50 service because of the upload speed option. All of the other options were bad (50/6, 250/20 and 400/20). For 98% of households, anything above 100 download is useless. Unless you are running a small business or have multiple gaming systems and live streams, you are not going to reach your bandwidth limits.

Another limiting factor for anyone paying for 250/400+ download is that 90%+ of devices cannot utilize higher download rates. Most WiFi devices are not capable (currently) of transmitting any faster than 250 mbps right now.

What helps everyone the most is the increased upload, which allows the user to transmit data. We have three adults that are potentially working from home at the same time (including continuing education), utilizing online meeting platforms and data file transmission via VPN access.

We have also opted for YouTubeTV as our television service ($50/mo. No contract, 3 live streams at one time). I ran my own network switch and CAT6A cables to setup an at-home office network with multiple outlets in each room for hard wired connectivity. Our modem/router unit is dual-band (DocSIS 3.1 / AC3200) and dedicated separately for Cell Phones and PC connectivity (Apple products do not have Ethernet ports now). Let’s just say the install guy was impressed when he came to do the install and only had to plug the power adapter in and run a short coaxial cable in to power the ONT on the house.

Anyhow, it is nice to finally have access to the modern world from my home.
tibbitts
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by tibbitts »

I have 150mbit I think, because it was cheaper (some discount offer) than any slower speeds. My wifi router is Korean War surplus so I can't tell.
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Toons
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by Toons »

Click Image

Image


Comcast 82.00
Monthly
:mrgreen:
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bertilak
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by bertilak »

meebers wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:16 pm switched to fiber 940/940 for $5.00 less.
Who's your internet provider? I just ordered 940/940 from CenturyLink -- installation in a couple of days.

This is a $15/mo upgrade from 100/100 which was a recent free-for-the-asking upgrade from 100/50 which I have only had for a couple of months! That was about $50/month, much cheaper than the $105/month 10/5 wireless DSL I had previously. Things are moving fast but I think 940/940 is probably a plateau.
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segfault
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by segfault »

I signed up for AT&T fiber a year ago with a promotion of $50/month for 300/300 bandwidth. The promotion was scheduled to end in the next few days and my new rate would have been $80. I called and explained I was looking at my options, and whether there was anything they could offer me to stop me from looking. I now have gigabit fiber with free HBO Now and no data cap (the old plan had a cap, which I never came close to exceeding), for $49.99 per month for the next 12 months.

For my purposes, anything faster than about 50 megabits is unnecessary, and I could probably live with less. I only stream one device at a time, and nothing in 4K.

There's a point of diminishing returns, especially if you're using wifi. On wifi, you're unlikely to see download speeds anywhere near gigabit. I was seeing about 500 megabits on wireless through the AT&T provided router, sitting close to it with a 2020 MacBook Air, but close to gigabit with a wired connection. I turned off the built-in wifi because I have a long range access point installed in the middle of my house. By way of comparison, it sacrifices some bandwidth in exchange for my having a stronger signal on my deck or in my yard. I see a max of 300 megabits with it.
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bertilak
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by bertilak »

Need for speed?

I use a lot of cloud services:
  • OneDrive: every file I edit is uploaded. Every time a take a picture with my phone it gets uploaded to OneDrive.
    My alarm system logs video back to ADT.
    I have two backup systems (I'm trying to decide which to cancel, but each has its advantages).
Biggest draw is streaming. I am soon to be doing 4K.

My house router supports gigabit (wired and wireless are both in use) so gigabit internet seems a natural fit.

Not sure If I need the gigabit Internet service but it is pretty cheap compared to slower service so why not? I am hoping that backups will go faster.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

bertilak wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:44 pm Need for speed?

I use a lot of cloud services:
  • OneDrive: every file I edit is uploaded. Every time a take a picture with my phone it gets uploaded to OneDrive.
    My alarm system logs video back to ADT.
    I have two backup systems (I'm trying to decide which to cancel, but each has its advantages).
Biggest draw is streaming. I am soon to be doing 4K.

My house router supports gigabit (wired and wireless are both in use) so gigabit internet seems a natural fit.

Not sure If I need the gigabit Internet service but it is pretty cheap compared to slower service so why not? I am hoping that backups will go faster.
We have a few 4K TVs, and when the kids are around, it’s not unusual to have 2 or 3 in use at the same time.

8k is prohibitively expensive, but given the pace of change, it won’t be long.
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FrugalInvestor
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by FrugalInvestor »

I have 15 down and 5 up. I receive that or a bit more. My service is with a local fiber internet provider. That along with Google wifi gives me a rock solid system. I typically have 20 or more devices connected and can run two concurrent streams on top of that (not 4k). It irritates me when the service provider tells people that if they stream they will need 100/100 service. But it works for the provider.

Previously I had faster service (don't recall the exact speed) from Cox and had continual problems.
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by mnsportsgeek »

I pay for 200 Mbps down and get about 240 Mpbs through Comcast. The upload speeds are lousy. Only about 7 Mbps.

No particular reason. I could probably get by with 100 Mbps down, but the cable package I pay for includes the 200 tier.

I find most people pay for speeds way faster than they need to. I'd be surprised if most families notice a difference in performance once you pass 100 Mbps. That's good enough for 4 simultaneous 4K video streams with a little left over.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

mnsportsgeek wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:27 pm I find most people pay for speeds way faster than they need to. I'd be surprised if most families notice a difference in performance once you pass 100 Mbps. That's good enough for 4 simultaneous 4K video streams with a little left over.
I haven't seen an independent assessment of what bandwidth you need for excellent 4k. They probably exist, but I haven't seen them. What I've seen comes from the same people who want you to sign up for their service, so I'm a bit skeptical. Netflix says 25 Mbps; who's to say it isn't really 50Mbps?

In any case, the price for Gigabit is so low with Fios that it's a bit like pricing umbrella insurance; if it costs so little to get an additional million of coverage, why not?
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AAA
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by AAA »

Jags4186 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:48 pm We have 100/100 which is the lowest tier Verizon offers in my area. There are also 300/300 and 1000/1000 tiers.
I have Verizon also and find the up is usually much slower than the down. Do you usually get equal rates up and down?
GeMoney
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by GeMoney »

I currently pay $35/mo for approx 250Mbps up and down from a local provider. I previously was paying $64/mo for <3Mbps down and .7Mbps up along with a landline from a third party provider using AT&T wires (I replaced the landline with Google voice and a Obihai device). I was tired of the slow speed with a Windows update taking hours to complete
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by Jags4186 »

AAA wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:18 pm
Jags4186 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:48 pm We have 100/100 which is the lowest tier Verizon offers in my area. There are also 300/300 and 1000/1000 tiers.
I have Verizon also and find the up is usually much slower than the down. Do you usually get equal rates up and down?
I actually find the up is like 120 and the down is in the 95-99 range.
oldfort
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by oldfort »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:43 pm
mnsportsgeek wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:27 pm I find most people pay for speeds way faster than they need to. I'd be surprised if most families notice a difference in performance once you pass 100 Mbps. That's good enough for 4 simultaneous 4K video streams with a little left over.
I haven't seen an independent assessment of what bandwidth you need for excellent 4k. They probably exist, but I haven't seen them. What I've seen comes from the same people who want you to sign up for their service, so I'm a bit skeptical. Netflix says 25 Mbps; who's to say it isn't really 50Mbps?

In any case, the price for Gigabit is so low with Fios that it's a bit like pricing umbrella insurance; if it costs so little to get an additional million of coverage, why not?
Most people can't tell the difference between HD and 4K, with an average size TV and typical viewing distances.
hudson
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by hudson »

I ran this online speed test and got this:
https://www.google.com/search?q=speed+t ... e&ie=UTF-8

Internet speed test

232.7 Mbps download

11.6 Mbps upload

Latency: 22 ms

Your Internet speed is very fast

Your Internet connection should be able to handle multiple devices streaming HD videos, video conferencing, and gaming at the same time.

Why? I wanted plenty of capacity.
mnsportsgeek
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by mnsportsgeek »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:43 pm
mnsportsgeek wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:27 pm I find most people pay for speeds way faster than they need to. I'd be surprised if most families notice a difference in performance once you pass 100 Mbps. That's good enough for 4 simultaneous 4K video streams with a little left over.
I haven't seen an independent assessment of what bandwidth you need for excellent 4k. They probably exist, but I haven't seen them. What I've seen comes from the same people who want you to sign up for their service, so I'm a bit skeptical. Netflix says 25 Mbps; who's to say it isn't really 50Mbps?

In any case, the price for Gigabit is so low with Fios that it's a bit like pricing umbrella insurance; if it costs so little to get an additional million of coverage, why not?
The bitrate for Netflix is actually ~15.6 Mbps. They only recommend 25 Mbps as a safety.

Apple TV+ has the highest quality streams right now. One of their shows had an average of 29 Mbps at 4K.
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by AAA »

Jags4186 wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:19 pm
AAA wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:18 pm
Jags4186 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:48 pm We have 100/100 which is the lowest tier Verizon offers in my area. There are also 300/300 and 1000/1000 tiers.
I have Verizon also and find the up is usually much slower than the down. Do you usually get equal rates up and down?
I actually find the up is like 120 and the down is in the 95-99 range.
Just tested mine using one application: 78 down, 18 up (should be 75 and 75). Using Verizon's own speed test website the up was even less. I've called Verizon about this in the past but don't bother anymore as I don't upload things often enough to care very much.
Slacker
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by Slacker »

We pay $55/month all in (tax, fees, modem) for 500/500Mbps service from Google. Last I checked, during the stay at home orders we are lucky to see better than ~175Mbps.

Both my wife and I work from home and our work requires us to have 10Mbps upload per person. We also have a video doorbell and two teens at home. Our work requires us to conduct image searching against a large database (scientific journals, industry journals, and the company's database).
onourway
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by onourway »

One thing I am learning from this thread is that we sure pay a premium for our service! Spectrum charges $90 for 400/20. $70 for 100/10...
Ron Ronnerson
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by Ron Ronnerson »

I have 100/100 with AT&T U-Verse. it’s typically $50 per month but their retention department added a $20 off per month promo which lowered the cost to $30. I called again a month or two later and they were able to stack another promo for an additional $20 off so I’m paying $10/month this year. I do get TV service through them as well. I was looking for a fast enough speed to meet my needs at a reasonable cost.

Edit: I just ran the speed test that is posted above by hudson.

Download: 116.1
Upload: 110.8
Latency: 8 ms
stan1
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by stan1 »

MathWizard wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:59 pm I have 60/25 by MediaCom via cable (just internet, no TV). The datacap is 400 MBytes per month.
400 MB/month? Perhaps you are in a rural area without competition? Can't even keep one Windows 10 computer patched on that these days. I hope its dirt cheap.
MathWizard
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by MathWizard »

Sorry 400GB, not MB.

We still go over occasionally, but to get a higher data cap,
we need to move to 100 Mbps 100GB cap but the price
is 50% higher.

Data caps were waived for 2 months, but they're back again.
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by flyingcows »

I have AT&T fiber, 1gbps up/down with no monthly data cap and low/consistent latency. I have had this service since 2015 and the price has remained exactly $70/month. I have had exactly one 15 minute service outage in my 5 years of having this service.

For me it was an easy choice, the only other option was to use Charter (now Spectrum) Cable to which regularly had outages and performance issues. I have always worked from home, and because the service was unreliable I was paying for 2 separate internet service providers (Cable + DSL) so that I could use the backup network when cable was down. The cable service also very frequently had latency spikes spikes which was problematic for real time applications like voice and video chat. That's not to say that all cable service providers are bad, but there is absolutely no comparison between AT&T fiber and charter cable, there is a world of difference between them beyond the advertised maximum throughput rates.

Put another way:

If Charter cable internet was free and AT&T fiber increased their prices, I would continue to use AT&T fiber.
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SmileyFace
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by SmileyFace »

oldfort wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:46 pm
DaftInvestor wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:50 pm Funny - you asked what broadband "Speed" everyone has - what you really meant, and what everyone is answering with is the "Bandwidth" :)

Of course all the ISPs say "Speed" too even though they aren't changing the speed (typically) - the latency stays the same - only the bandwidth is increased (which only helps if you are over-running the lower tiers of bandwidth causing congestion).

We have 1Gbps/1Gbps of bandwidth. Speed is about the same as when I had 100Mbps/100Mbps. I expense it through my company so went for the gusto (been a WFH employee for several years now). Would drop down to 100/100 if paying myself (although I currently have a special deal whereby the 1Gbps is actually cheaper).

The ISPs were giving more download than upload for years figuring you needed more bandwidth for streaming TV/video/etc. BUT now with folks feeding out video (Zoom, cameras, etc.) that's not always the case and yet many ISPs haven't changed their models.
Speed is bandwidth, not latency. At least that's how the term is used by the ISPs themselves and the most common CS textbook on networking in the US.
Sorry but you are wrong.
The ISPs are using the term Speed for marketing purposes - increasing bandwidth alone does nothing to increase the speed of a signal being carried. I don't know what CS book you are referring to but it is certainly sad if it's incorrect and being used by Universities (will cause a CS major applying for a job in a TCP/IP related company to fail a most basic interview question). If you don't believe me please simply google "speed versus bandwidth" for many reliable sources on how they differ.
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by tis_puddleglum »

Well, until my wife started working from home (COVID-19) we didn't use much internet so I have the cheapest I could find. I use a cellular modem (T-Mobile 5GB/Mo) for $25/month. I typically get 20 - 30 mbps down but it has increased to as much as 40 mbps during this COVID-19 shut down. Borrowed spectrum no doubt.

We don't stream video or radio and only use the internet for computers (email, security updates & simple web browsing). I had been using about 1 to 1.5 GB/mo. Now I let my wife use it exclusively for work while I make do with our backup dial-up. She uses about 200MB/day but it can be double that on Mondays as her company pushes out security/software updates to their laptop. So far this has still been working out for us, but if COVID-19 keeps going I will probably have to look for something more. Remember the Spanish (1918) Flu lasted 2 years.
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by oldfort »

DaftInvestor wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:48 am
oldfort wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:46 pm
DaftInvestor wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:50 pm Funny - you asked what broadband "Speed" everyone has - what you really meant, and what everyone is answering with is the "Bandwidth" :)

Of course all the ISPs say "Speed" too even though they aren't changing the speed (typically) - the latency stays the same - only the bandwidth is increased (which only helps if you are over-running the lower tiers of bandwidth causing congestion).

We have 1Gbps/1Gbps of bandwidth. Speed is about the same as when I had 100Mbps/100Mbps. I expense it through my company so went for the gusto (been a WFH employee for several years now). Would drop down to 100/100 if paying myself (although I currently have a special deal whereby the 1Gbps is actually cheaper).

The ISPs were giving more download than upload for years figuring you needed more bandwidth for streaming TV/video/etc. BUT now with folks feeding out video (Zoom, cameras, etc.) that's not always the case and yet many ISPs haven't changed their models.
Speed is bandwidth, not latency. At least that's how the term is used by the ISPs themselves and the most common CS textbook on networking in the US.
Sorry but you are wrong.
The ISPs are using the term Speed for marketing purposes - increasing bandwidth alone does nothing to increase the speed of a signal being carried. I don't know what CS book you are referring to but it is certainly sad if it's incorrect and being used by Universities (will cause a CS major applying for a job in a TCP/IP related company to fail a most basic interview question). If you don't believe me please simply google "speed versus bandwidth" for many reliable sources on how they differ.
The Kurose and Ross textbooks refer to speed as the transmission data rate. Both James Kurose and Keith Ross are IEEE and ACM fellows. For five years, Dr. Kurose led the Directorate of Computer and Information Science and Engineering (CISE) at the National Science Foundation. If you want to claim those guys don't understand computer networking, and aren't reliable sources, okay.
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SmileyFace
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by SmileyFace »

oldfort wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:27 am
DaftInvestor wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:48 am
oldfort wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:46 pm
DaftInvestor wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:50 pm Funny - you asked what broadband "Speed" everyone has - what you really meant, and what everyone is answering with is the "Bandwidth" :)

Of course all the ISPs say "Speed" too even though they aren't changing the speed (typically) - the latency stays the same - only the bandwidth is increased (which only helps if you are over-running the lower tiers of bandwidth causing congestion).

We have 1Gbps/1Gbps of bandwidth. Speed is about the same as when I had 100Mbps/100Mbps. I expense it through my company so went for the gusto (been a WFH employee for several years now). Would drop down to 100/100 if paying myself (although I currently have a special deal whereby the 1Gbps is actually cheaper).

The ISPs were giving more download than upload for years figuring you needed more bandwidth for streaming TV/video/etc. BUT now with folks feeding out video (Zoom, cameras, etc.) that's not always the case and yet many ISPs haven't changed their models.
Speed is bandwidth, not latency. At least that's how the term is used by the ISPs themselves and the most common CS textbook on networking in the US.
Sorry but you are wrong.
The ISPs are using the term Speed for marketing purposes - increasing bandwidth alone does nothing to increase the speed of a signal being carried. I don't know what CS book you are referring to but it is certainly sad if it's incorrect and being used by Universities (will cause a CS major applying for a job in a TCP/IP related company to fail a most basic interview question). If you don't believe me please simply google "speed versus bandwidth" for many reliable sources on how they differ.
The Kurose and Ross textbooks refer to speed as the transmission data rate. Both James Kurose and Keith Ross are IEEE and ACM fellows. For five years, Dr. Kurose led the Directorate of Computer and Information Science and Engineering (CISE) at the National Science Foundation. If you want to claim those guys don't understand computer networking, and aren't reliable sources, okay.
It's probably not that they aren't reliable sources, it's more likely that you are misreading/misunderstanding them. Do they actually say "bandwidth = speed"?
You just changed terms and said "Transmission data rate". This is often called throughput - it INCLUDES Latency (and other factors) and is actually different than bandwidth.
I don't have their book in front of me, most of the academic books I have are smart enough to avoid the use of the word "Speed" altogether (stick with bandwidth, throughput, latency, packet-delay, packet-loss, jitter, etc.)
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by oldfort »

DaftInvestor wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:17 pm
oldfort wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:27 am
DaftInvestor wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:48 am
oldfort wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:46 pm
DaftInvestor wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:50 pm Funny - you asked what broadband "Speed" everyone has - what you really meant, and what everyone is answering with is the "Bandwidth" :)

Of course all the ISPs say "Speed" too even though they aren't changing the speed (typically) - the latency stays the same - only the bandwidth is increased (which only helps if you are over-running the lower tiers of bandwidth causing congestion).

We have 1Gbps/1Gbps of bandwidth. Speed is about the same as when I had 100Mbps/100Mbps. I expense it through my company so went for the gusto (been a WFH employee for several years now). Would drop down to 100/100 if paying myself (although I currently have a special deal whereby the 1Gbps is actually cheaper).

The ISPs were giving more download than upload for years figuring you needed more bandwidth for streaming TV/video/etc. BUT now with folks feeding out video (Zoom, cameras, etc.) that's not always the case and yet many ISPs haven't changed their models.
Speed is bandwidth, not latency. At least that's how the term is used by the ISPs themselves and the most common CS textbook on networking in the US.
Sorry but you are wrong.
The ISPs are using the term Speed for marketing purposes - increasing bandwidth alone does nothing to increase the speed of a signal being carried. I don't know what CS book you are referring to but it is certainly sad if it's incorrect and being used by Universities (will cause a CS major applying for a job in a TCP/IP related company to fail a most basic interview question). If you don't believe me please simply google "speed versus bandwidth" for many reliable sources on how they differ.
The Kurose and Ross textbooks refer to speed as the transmission data rate. Both James Kurose and Keith Ross are IEEE and ACM fellows. For five years, Dr. Kurose led the Directorate of Computer and Information Science and Engineering (CISE) at the National Science Foundation. If you want to claim those guys don't understand computer networking, and aren't reliable sources, okay.
It's probably not that they aren't reliable sources, it's more likely that you are misreading/misunderstanding them. Do they actually say "bandwidth = speed"?
You just changed terms and said "Transmission data rate". This is often called throughput - it INCLUDES Latency (and other factors) and is actually different than bandwidth.
I don't have their book in front of me, most of the academic books I have are smart enough to avoid the use of the word "Speed" altogether (stick with bandwidth, throughput, latency, packet-delay, packet-loss, jitter, etc.)
Years of signal processing classes ingrained in me: bandwidth is measured in units of Hz, although I accept it's too late to get the CS community to start using the term properly. If you look in their books you'll see comments such as the average downstream speed of US FTTH was approximately X Mbps. Yes, they use the term speed.
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by lazydavid »

oldfort wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:12 pm Years of signal processing classes ingrained in me: bandwidth is measured in units of Hz. If you look in their books you'll see comments such as the average downstream speed of US FTTH was approximately X Mbps. Yes, they use the term speed.
We are getting WAY into the weeds here, but this is correct. Bandwidth is literally the width of the bands in use for data communication. For a baseband circuit like Ethernet, it is the entire frequency range that is used for signaling. Cat6a, for example, has 500Mhz of bandwidth. For broadband circuits like cable modems, it is the portion of the carrier frequency band that is available to carry data. The DOCSIS 3.1 standard specifies this as 258 Mhz to 1218 Mhz, or a bandwidth of 960Mhz.

All that said, in common language as used by normies, bandwidth and speed are used interchangeably when taking about data rate, which is measured in Mbps/Gbps.
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by SmileyFace »

lazydavid wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:25 pm
oldfort wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:12 pm Years of signal processing classes ingrained in me: bandwidth is measured in units of Hz. If you look in their books you'll see comments such as the average downstream speed of US FTTH was approximately X Mbps. Yes, they use the term speed.
We are getting WAY into the weeds here, but this is correct. Bandwidth is literally the width of the bands in use for data communication. For a baseband circuit like Ethernet, it is the entire frequency range that is used for signaling. Cat6a, for example, has 500Mhz of bandwidth. For broadband circuits like cable modems, it is the portion of the carrier frequency band that is available to carry data. The DOCSIS 3.1 standard specifies this as 258 Mhz to 1218 Mhz, or a bandwidth of 960Mhz.

All that said, in common language as used by normies, bandwidth and speed are used interchangeably when taking about data rate, which is measured in Mbps/Gbps.
oldfort - they (The CS book you mention; signal processing is an entirely different manner) may use the term "Speed" but do they actually say "Bandwidth = Speed"? I am guessing not.
I have BSEE/MSEE degrees so could parry with you on all the signal processing definitions/terminology but we were NOT talking about signal processing (people here are talking about Gbps/Mbps/Kbps measurements - NOT Hz) - we were talking about TCP/IP terminology. Generally, the term "Bandwidth" refers to the "Theoretical Rate" of the pipe. The term "Throughput" or "Transmission Rate" refers (Normally; to those in the industry) to the ACTUAL rate achieved (with latency and other factors) versus the Theoretical Maximum. Most real people in the industry equate "speed" to the "throughput" and NOT to the "bandwidth" (like I said originally - a simple Google search will tell you this). This is why I was asking if your CS-Textbook actually says "Bandwidth = Speed" - because when I first challenged you as to the book - suddenly you changed your statement from Bandwidth to Transmission Rate.

Let's save signal processing for another thread :)
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Cruise
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by Cruise »

Really interesting observations here. Also, very interesting set of data on people's speed options.

FYI, the FCC has several documents related to the discussion and decision on broadband speed(and yes, they say "speed"):

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/ho ... band-guide

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/br ... peed-guide
tis_puddleglum
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by tis_puddleglum »

Well, I wouldn't trust the Government to get it right either. They are just as prone to marketing as anyone. Hopefully you can make it out from context.

I prefer the highway analogy. Broadband is like a multi-lane highway. The more lanes you have, the more trucks you can put on the road at the same time to deliver loads to your destination. Latency is like a corvette. The number of lanes doesn't make much of a difference. You get to your destination and back a lot faster than the trucks no matter how much traffic you have to weave through. Of course you can't deliver much of a load.

If you stream movies you are interested in the trucks. If you are a gamer you are interested in the corvette. If you are like me you are just hoping for a paved road.
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

tis_puddleglum wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:04 am If you stream movies you are interested in the trucks. If you are a gamer you are interested in the corvette. If you are like me you are just hoping for a paved road.
That’s not only funny, but a great analogy. Thanks.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.
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hand
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by hand »

80/80 FiOS with 12 ms latency for 4 work from home / school from home users and we rarely exceed 40 Mbps down. Cost is $34.99/ month.
Plenty of 4k streaming and concurrent video calls, but no gaming. In practice, work bandwidth is throttled by the VPN not the provider.

I'm always surprised at what a good job marketers do at selling bandwidth that will never be needed by most users, but am thankful for the subsidy!

While I have no need for additional bandwidth in the immediate future, I would consider additional bandwidth from a second provider for redundancy - if I could find a provider who provided an always on, minimal cost (low bandwidth / low data cap, or pay per GB) plan.
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by michaeljc70 »

I have 25/2 from Comcast for $20 a month out the door. I have it because it is cheap and is fine for fueling all our needs which includes YouTube TV streaming, YouTube, Amazon video, many phones, laptops, smart devices, etc. A lot of people think you need super fast internet but it isn't needed in most cases and people are wasting money. If you are streaming 4k on multiple devices that would be an exception.
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Cruise
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by Cruise »

A bit OT, but related. Since there are many folks wise to this issue on this thread, here goes a question:

I'm sitting next to my Orbi satellite on a laptop. I notice that the device seems to be slow to respond when loading. So I run a speed test (twice) and get a number like this: 3.73d/4.76u/20ms. I then run speed test on my cell phone --on wifi--(twice), set to the same servers my device speed test was using, getting 68.3/5.38/14ms. The four tests were done like this: laptop/phone/laptop/phone.

Why would the results be so different? Many thanks.
Last edited by Cruise on Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

^ not saying it will solve anything, but did you try to reboot the slow device?
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.
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Cruise
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Re: To what Broadband Speeds do you Subscribe and Why?

Post by Cruise »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:53 pm ^ not saying it will solve anything, but did you try to reboot the slow device?
Yes.
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