New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

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cbr shadow
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New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by cbr shadow »

My wife and I decided it's time to update our main car. We have our first baby on the way and our current car is older and has a fair amount of miles on it, so I'd like to get something with newer safety features, some convenience features, and less worry about reliability.

Here's some info about us:
- Both 36 yrs old
- Live in the Bay Area, both working. Income ~$350k
- Baby (our first!) due in late November 2020
- Current cars: 2011 Prius (160k miles) , 2012 Hyundai Elantra (backup car, 65k miles. Will sell it with purchase of new car)

Both cars are reasonably reliable but I would be more at ease with a newer car for the wife/baby. We would keep the Prius since I use it a lot for cycling races, hauling things in the hatchback, etc.. and would sell the Elantra.

The main criteria for a new car:
- Brand that has a record for reliability (Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Lexus)
- Good overall value for what you get. No luxury brand, probably.
- SUV since I'm told getting a baby in and out of an SUV is a big convenience over bending over into a sedan. We're both in very good physical health, if that's a factor.
- New safety features, Apple Connect features, bluetooth.
- Reasonably good gas mileage. No big SUV's.

I think I've narrowed it down to either a *slightly used* RAV4 or a *slightly used* Subaru Forester. I've read some reviews comparing the two and it seems they're very competitive with eachother. The review I read said they're almost identical except the RAV4 has more modern styling but the Subaru Forester has better visibility.

I'm hoping to spend around $20k, so this means a used car probably. We can definitely afford a new one, but I've always bought used vehicles and feel it's generally better value.

Which would you go with and why? Any other model I should look at?
adamthesmythe
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by adamthesmythe »

I am presently working on buying a new Rav4.

I am not looking at Subaru because I don't want a CVT. Same with Honda (CVT on the CRV). Also I once had a Honda and had a less than satisfactory experience.

Be sure to realistically compare new vs. used with Toyota. Slightly used at a good price may be hard to find.
NJdad6
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by NJdad6 »

Include Hyundai, Kia and Mazda on your list. Higher reliability than Subaru or Honda. Should get more bank for your buck when buying used vs. Toyota or Honda.
Last edited by NJdad6 on Mon May 25, 2020 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KyleAAA
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by KyleAAA »

The Mazda CX5 is very nice but a bit less storage space. It will be the "sportiest" option and is probably the best all around value. If you don't want a CVT, the new CRV hybrid is worth a look. Most storage space by a significant margin. RAV4 styling is better, but having extra space to carry kid's stuff is worth a lot.
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Nate79
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by Nate79 »

You really need to sit in each, test drive, and see which YOU like better. I would put the Forester as hands down the best small SUV.
stan1
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by stan1 »

Make sure you both drive them. The designs on some of these vehicles create large blind spots at A, B, and C pillars. Depending on your driving position it may be an annoyance or a serious problem that jeopardizes your ability to drive the vehicle safely (lane changes or parking).
gips
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by gips »

cant go wrong w either, we live in a place with hills, snow and ice, love my forester. at the time of purchase, would have had to spend a lot more for the same safety features on a rav4, that may have changed.
Last edited by gips on Mon May 25, 2020 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ferdinand2014
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by Ferdinand2014 »

Forester. Safe as a tank. Reliable. Great ground clearance and AWD system to increase utility.
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yohac
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by yohac »

We have a RAV4 hybrid and like it, no problems.
jimmy2040
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by jimmy2040 »

Some 2019s have transmission issues. Could be CVTs or the 8 speed automatic crap.

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Toyota/RAV4/2019/
UpperNwGuy
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by UpperNwGuy »

I’m planning to replace my car later this year, and I’ve narrowed it down to RAV4 and Forester, but I want a new one.
TravelGeek
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by TravelGeek »

We like our 2016 Forester, which replaced a Prius. But I suspect you can't really go wrong with either brand. Which one feels more comfortable to you? Also, is the RAV4 4WD and does that matter to you? (ever going to Tahoe in the winter, perhaps) The Forester is great in snowy conditions.
MishkaWorries
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by MishkaWorries »

We were car shopping last fall for my wife. I would have bought the hybrid Rav. She bought a Subaru Forester. The Forester has great visibility and lots of safety features. I really like the crash avoidance, cross-traffic and blind-spot alerts.

To me, the Subaru has nicer interior materials. The Rav had a lot of cheap plastic.

We bought new but we always do because I like knowing we got the newest safety features and I know I will maintain the car properly. Buying used you don't know how it was driven or maintained.

The price difference between a slightly used Toyota or Subaru is not much. And I think I saw Subaru is offering 0% financing now. Toyota may also have specials because of the economy.
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DetroitRick
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by DetroitRick »

We just made this choice in February. Besides those 2, also considered the CRV and a few others. We looked at 2020's (2019 for CRV) and had similar criteria to what you listed (no baby, but we haul a big dog). I will say that the choice between Forester or RAV4 was the least clear preference that I've ever had between two competing vehicles. We loved both. Wife had a slight preference for RAV4, me for the Forester. I literally could have tossed a coin on the choice (never felt that way before), at least until one Toyota dealer made a great offer that swayed us. No regrets, we do love the RAV. And I think we would feel the same way about the Forester. I would give the 2020 CRV a shot too, but wasn't that thrilled with the 2019 (it was more the dealer and their price than the car for us though).

Used or new, these creatures are so similar that I'd spend some real test drive time on both of them. Tough choice, in a good way.

I think the Forester had slightly better visibility. Both seemed similar in road tests as far as handling and ride. Forester had slightly less pickup, but I didn't notice it at all when I was fooling with it on the test drive in real time. The only thing I didn't care for was acceleration noise. Not problem, but a little bit more than I'm used to. But felt exactly the same with both cars, and others in the same class that we test drove, so that didn't influence us one way or the other.

Good luck on your choice. I predict either will work out just fine.
TallBoy29er
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by TallBoy29er »

You are choosing between two great options.

We have a 2020 Forester Sport. It is my wife's daily driver (well...used to be daily). Amazing visibility, and the safety features are fantastic. I feel like we can pack an absolute ton in the back, and can still reach the roof easily enough if we need to put a Thule box up top. I will also say, the cabin in the Forester feels huge...headroom and space are not an issue.

Edited to add: The AWD drive is fantastic. It's standard w/ a Forester, and maybe an option w/ the Rav4? Regardless, I will never buy a non-AWD car ever again. I can't tell you how safe I feel in the Forester in inclement weather. Much moreso than even in my truck.
jimmy2040
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by jimmy2040 »

subarus have boxer engine designs. See engine and electrical issues as they age.

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Subaru/
tibbitts
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by tibbitts »

My thoughts are that given your income, I don't at all understand buying any of the cars you're looking at used. Years ago you could find year-old cars, usually domestic, at almost half-price after a year. Not now with desirable vehicles with good reputations (justfied or not.) Someone I know is looking into buying a Grand Caravan, and that would be a completely different story for new vs. used. I also don't understand why you could care that much about gas mileage, when you seemingly won't drive this vehicle that much. With just starting a family I would choose a larger vehicle for the "family car."
retire57
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by retire57 »

RAV4 hybrid gets my vote. The next model will be hybrid/electric if you are interested in that. If you aren't, good deals may be had on a gently used RAV4 when the new model arrives. The newer ones are loaded with safety features.

Full disclosure: I drive a 2012 RAV4 and it is low-maintenance and reliable. And fun to drive around town - very zippy!
jbmitt
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by jbmitt »

jimmy2040 wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 2:18 pm subarus have boxer engine designs. See engine and electrical issues as they age.

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Subaru/
That was more of an issue on older generation Subarus. It's mostly been resolved.
rockstar
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by rockstar »

I will no longer buy Subaru unless it's used. I test drove a Forester, and I found it disconcerting when the engine turned off at a stop light. I know this is to save gas, but I find it super annoying.

I also test drove a Rav4, and I found it way under powered to go up small hills. I wouldn't recommend it in the Bay Area.
Last edited by rockstar on Mon May 25, 2020 5:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
BlackwaterPark10
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by BlackwaterPark10 »

Toyota is releasing the Venza in a few months and it looks pretty awesome.
ByThePond
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by ByThePond »

Our last four vehicles have been Foresters. We're obviously very pleased with them, and they keep getting better with each iteration. Btw, the engine shut-off upon stopping at a light can be turned off easily with the touch of a button.
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Watty
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by Watty »

cbr shadow wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 1:37 pm I think I've narrowed it down to either a *slightly used* RAV4 or a *slightly used* Subaru Forester. I've read some reviews comparing the two and it seems they're very competitive with eachother. The review I read said they're almost identical except the RAV4 has more modern styling but the Subaru Forester has better visibility.
When looking at the cars you need to realize that the features can vary a lot by the model year and trim level. This is especially true with the new advanced safety features that they have been adding over the last few years. You really need to dig through the details of the specific model years and trim levels to decide how competitive they are.

I don't know about Subarus but when I have shopped for Toyotas the price on late model used cars was not low enough to make then a good deal for me so I buy new Toyotas. It would be good to keep an open mind about buying a used one especially if an older one would not have many of the new safety features.
cbr shadow wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 1:37 pm Any other model I should look at?
My son is about your age and has a Forester that his wife drive. It is a great car and they like it but they have two young kids and they find that when they want to travel somewhere it really fills up quick with all the kid stuff and some luggage. They are seriously thinking of getting a minivan to get more space.

It may be too soon for minivan now but when you are ready to replace the other car it might be time for a minivan especially if you have more kids then.

Also consider parking since if you are in San Francisco a large car can be a problem.
UpperNwGuy
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by UpperNwGuy »

Seems like a minor flaw, easily fixed.
SR7
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by SR7 »

Congratulations on the new baby !
Yes, with a slightly higher car, not bending over as much to get the baby in and out is better for the back and less physical effort.

Both cars are winners, just test drive both.
For me Toyota has the best reliability reputation, while the Forester has the best constant AWD system on the market which is great in the rain and mud. Over here the AWD is an option on the RAV4, but it’s fitted to all Foresters at all trim levels.

Make sure both have a good reversing camera, an important safety feature for young ones.
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illumination
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by illumination »

rockstar wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 4:17 pm I will no longer buy Subaru unless it's used. I test drove a Forester, and I found is disconcerting when the engine turned off at a stop light. I know this is to save gas, but I find it super annoying.
I absolutely hate that feature, I would almost call it a deal breaker if a car has it. What I don't understand is why not make it something you can turn off one time and not EVERY time you start the car.
ThankYouJack
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by ThankYouJack »

Seems like the main reason for the new car is safety so I would look into safety ratings. InformedForLife.org has some side by side comparisons. I would also sign up for a month of Consumer Reports online and check reliability ratings since that is a big concern.
cbr shadow wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 1:37 pm
- SUV since I'm told getting a baby in and out of an SUV is a big convenience over bending over into a sedan. We're both in very good physical health, if that's a factor.
Since you both are in good shape I don't think that's a factor at all. It's quite easy getting a kid in and out of a car or SUV.

One big difference though is changing a dirty diaper in the back of an SUV compared to a typical sedan small trunk. I don't think that's reason enough to buy an SUV over a sedan, but it comes in handy having the lift gate and more headroom, especially when it's raining.
ThankYouJack
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by ThankYouJack »

illumination wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 5:14 pm
rockstar wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 4:17 pm I will no longer buy Subaru unless it's used. I test drove a Forester, and I found is disconcerting when the engine turned off at a stop light. I know this is to save gas, but I find it super annoying.
I absolutely hate that feature, I would almost call it a deal breaker if a car has it. What I don't understand is why not make it something you can turn off one time and not EVERY time you start the car.
I rented a Jeep Cherokee which had the same feature and I too found it annoying but got used to it after a couple days. I'm guessing the majority of cars will eventually do this to save gas/emissions.
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htdrag11
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by htdrag11 »

My 2018 Subaru Outback's lease is due in August 2020, so I would not miss it.
Things I like:
- supports both Apple CarPlay and Android Auto (not Toyota)
- great visibility
- as an option, I went for the swiveling headlight when turning
- decent speakers
- drives ok, but not like a Mazda CX-5
- lots of room in the back

Things I do not like:
- power hatch does not work all the time (not sure if there is such an option in the Forester)
- hatch is only power operated, no manual option
- audio system goes in and out
- the LCD screen placement angle is horrible during afternoon sun
- CVT stinks

Prior to the Outback, I had a 2014 Lexus RX350 which was quieter and had many luxury features but it drove like a dog. It's more for the wife.

Good luck.
sd323232
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by sd323232 »

both are good, you cant go wrong here. i would choose RAV4 cause it is toyota.
02nz
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by 02nz »

In your shoes I'd wait for the RAV4 Prime (plug-in hybrid). Enough range to go electric most of the time, and gets you a HOV sticker. Sure a slightly used RAV4 is cheaper, but you can certainly afford it.
bob60014
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by bob60014 »

We recently purchased a Rav 4 Hybrid Limited and love it. Comfortable, great features, easy to maneuver and 40+ mpg around town.
1moreyr
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by 1moreyr »

I am on my 6th Subaru. i have passed on 3 of them to my kids. reliability has been outstanding to 200K.
Head gaskets can be a problem but I have never replaced one. I had a small leak but never bad enough to worry about.

Subarus hold their value so well, I have never bought a used one. It just never seemed enough of a difference to me. I keep them until they die so never worried about it.

Neither is a bad choice but AWD in the subarus are outstanding. If you are in a high snow belt like me in NH, i would go subaru. Otherwise, i would pick either
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

19+ Forester has Eyesight standard. Automatic braking, adaptive cruise control. Both my mom and father in law have this and it puts us at ease. Older Foresters had Eyesight as an option, so it is certainly possible to find one used. You really want to price out used ones before ruling out a new one. Foresters hold their value really well.
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illumination
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by illumination »

I had a Subaru wagon, I'm honestly luke warm on the brand. I definitely think Toyota is a better brand.

Subarus have improved, but I thought the seats never seemed to fit right (only car I've ever had an issue like that)and the car had a "tin can" feeling. Also, the car's AC was weak (and that's just the way they are, some brands only have adequate AC) I had also had some mechanical issues.

I personally would lean towards the Rav4.
wriley4409
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by wriley4409 »

I wouldn't overlook the possibility of acquiring a new 2020 Forester. In our area Subaru is offering 0% financing for 63 months on the Forester, plus you also gain the bonus of the full factory warranty and two years of free maintenance.

IMO you would not regret purchasing either of these vehicles.
ballons
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by ballons »

cbr shadow wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 1:37 pm - SUV since I'm told getting a baby in and out of an SUV is a big convenience over bending over into a sedan. We're both in very good physical health, if that's a factor.
- New safety features, Apple Connect features, bluetooth.
- Reasonably good gas mileage. No big SUV's.
$20,000 just to not bend down?

Test out tech before you purchase and make sure it works 100%. It will not get better and likely get worse as manufacturer abandons hardware/updates.

I would get the RAV4 between the two just for MPG increase. I personally would rather get a CRV because it feels better inside, seats fold flat, and slightly more cargo holding. IIRC, CRV oil dilution is hopefully a problem they figured out by now.
TravelGeek
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by TravelGeek »

ThankYouJack wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 5:28 pm I rented a Jeep Cherokee which had the same feature and I too found it annoying but got used to it after a couple days. I'm guessing the majority of cars will eventually do this to save gas/emissions.
Our Priuses had that feature. And most non-hybrid cars I have rented in Europe in the last five or so years have had this feature. Worked fine for me, never a concern. My LEAF has it too :twisted:
Trader Joe
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by Trader Joe »

cbr shadow wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 1:37 pm My wife and I decided it's time to update our main car. We have our first baby on the way and our current car is older and has a fair amount of miles on it, so I'd like to get something with newer safety features, some convenience features, and less worry about reliability.

Here's some info about us:
- Both 36 yrs old
- Live in the Bay Area, both working. Income ~$350k
- Baby (our first!) due in late November 2020
- Current cars: 2011 Prius (160k miles) , 2012 Hyundai Elantra (backup car, 65k miles. Will sell it with purchase of new car)

Both cars are reasonably reliable but I would be more at ease with a newer car for the wife/baby. We would keep the Prius since I use it a lot for cycling races, hauling things in the hatchback, etc.. and would sell the Elantra.

The main criteria for a new car:
- Brand that has a record for reliability (Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Lexus)
- Good overall value for what you get. No luxury brand, probably.
- SUV since I'm told getting a baby in and out of an SUV is a big convenience over bending over into a sedan. We're both in very good physical health, if that's a factor.
- New safety features, Apple Connect features, bluetooth.
- Reasonably good gas mileage. No big SUV's.

I think I've narrowed it down to either a *slightly used* RAV4 or a *slightly used* Subaru Forester. I've read some reviews comparing the two and it seems they're very competitive with eachother. The review I read said they're almost identical except the RAV4 has more modern styling but the Subaru Forester has better visibility.

I'm hoping to spend around $20k, so this means a used car probably. We can definitely afford a new one, but I've always bought used vehicles and feel it's generally better value.

Which would you go with and why? Any other model I should look at?
Toyota Rav4, by far.
02nz
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by 02nz »

ballons wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 7:50 pm Test out tech before you purchase and make sure it works 100%. It will not get better and likely get worse as manufacturer abandons hardware/updates.
I think that's why the OP mentioned CarPlay - much of the infotainment software then resides on the phone, which gets updates. The car does little more than provide a touchscreen and speakers/amplification.
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tvubpwcisla
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by tvubpwcisla »

Here is a vote for the Toyota RAV4.

What you should know before buying a Subaru - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKPnpWd2P-I

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Retired1809
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by Retired1809 »

Since we bought our first Subaru Forester in 2004, we've owned nothing but Subarus. I still drive my 2004 Subaru Forester every day and have never had any major repairs. I believe the highest repair bill I've ever had was around $250. But I only have 98,000 miles on this car. We also own a 2015 Subaru Forester that my wife drives. It has the CVT transmission which I've never been able to get used to. So I prefer driving my 2004 that was made before CVT. Before we bought our first Subaru in 2004, my wife drove a Toyota Four Runner twice, each time asking the salesman to park it after she finished. The second time, I asked her why she asked the salesman to park it. Her reply: "I can't see how to back it up." To which I replied, "If you buy this car, you will eventually have to back it up." The Subaru Forester (not the Outback) has absolutely the best visibility of any vehicle I've ever driven. Like my wife, I can easily see what's back of and around my Forester. So be sure that you and your wife are happy with the visibility of whatever car you purchase.
And one more note: we have owned three Subarus since 2004 and have never been back to the dealer other than for factory recalls. Find a good independent mechanic who knows Subarus.
Nowizard
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by Nowizard »

I have posted in a similar thread and am not particularly downgrading the Forester, but it is not for me. Great visibility, good technology that is not user friendly, noisy from standing start, rather cheap appearance inside compared to RAV. Good gas mileage. Main issues for me are the noise, technology that is not easy to negotiate and, particularly, the center console that rubs against the right leg. Seat adjustment helps some. For a baby, there are connectors for the baby seat in the second row, but the remainder of the attachment is somewhat difficult to connect compared to prior cars. Good legroom compared to the RAV, however, and mileage is 30+ combined city/highway. Does not have warning when approaching a wall such as when entering a garage. You can set it up so you can use adaptive or traditional cruise control. Radio is annoying with the way it turns on and off without intent. Even changing the clock time is a challenge. The speed is shown digitally and on a standard type of speedometer. They are not calibrated on my car, and vary by about 2 mph. Not sure about the RAV but will not buy a Forester again and am looking for another car. This one has 5,000 miles and is a 2019.

Tim
ballons
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by ballons »

02nz wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 8:38 pm
ballons wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 7:50 pm Test out tech before you purchase and make sure it works 100%. It will not get better and likely get worse as manufacturer abandons hardware/updates.
I think that's why the OP mentioned CarPlay - much of the infotainment software then resides on the phone, which gets updates. The car does little more than provide a touchscreen and speakers/amplification.
"CarPlay is an Apple standard"

That still does not preclude a future update breaking compatibility or a feature on a proprietary standard. Those updates are contingent on car manufacturer continuing to pay licensing fees.

What happens when things don't work? Manufacturer points finger at apple. Apple points finger at manufacturer.
02nz
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by 02nz »

ballons wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 9:43 pm
02nz wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 8:38 pm
ballons wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 7:50 pm Test out tech before you purchase and make sure it works 100%. It will not get better and likely get worse as manufacturer abandons hardware/updates.
I think that's why the OP mentioned CarPlay - much of the infotainment software then resides on the phone, which gets updates. The car does little more than provide a touchscreen and speakers/amplification.
"CarPlay is an Apple standard"

That still does not preclude a future update breaking compatibility or a feature on a proprietary standard. Those updates are contingent on car manufacturer continuing to pay licensing fees.

What happens when things don't work? Manufacturer points finger at apple. Apple points finger at manufacturer.
CarPlay has been around 5+ years. Can you please point to any specific evidence of what you're saying happening during that time? Otherwise you're just tossing out wild possibilities. Sure, anything's possible. And: neither you nor I know what's in the licensing agreements between Apple and car maufacturers, but the fee is almost certainly per vehicle, not per month or year or whatever.
FoolStreet
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by FoolStreet »

I'm going to suggest that you get the Rav4 Hybrid. Knowing me, I think you should get the Tesla Model Y - lol ...but since you are in the Bay Area and specifically did not mention it, you must have some reasons. Anyway, I do suggest you zhuzh up to the current model Rav4 Hybrid. The gas savings are amazing and the space for kids is perfect. If you "need" it now, then get the regular Hybrid. If you can put your name on a waiting list and wait, then get the Rav4 Hybrid Prime. It is delayed, but it is the holy grail for Hybrids. Once you have a plug, you will 98% of the time, never need gas ever again....specially in the Bay Area where there are gazillions of plugs and free charging everywhere. You are either driving to work and back (can do on about one charge), or you are staying at home and driving kids to school and local activities -- again, all via one charge. Occasional trips to Tahoe can be done on gas.

Anything extra you spend on a new car is saved from not paying for gas/maintenance. I suggest you use the Costco buying program to bypass all the Dealer BS.

* EDIT: Year to Model
ballons
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by ballons »

02nz wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 9:46 pm CarPlay has been around 5+ years. Can you please point to any specific evidence of what you're saying happening during that time? Otherwise you're just tossing out wild possibilities. Sure, anything's possible. And: neither you nor I know what's in the licensing agreements between Apple and car maufacturers, but the fee is almost certainly per vehicle, not per month or year or whatever.
A whole five years isn't a long time at all. And 5 years from now? 10? 15? Will the iphone 23 work with this? I was talking about the future and made no claims about something that has already happened. Not knowing what is the the licensing is part of the problem. Is it by VIN? Head unit? Head unit software version?

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2858 ... explainer/
Still, other automakers don't charge a subscription fee to use CarPlay. Many even make it a standard feature. Toyota says that the 2020 Supra will offer the use of CarPlay free for four years while it determines if a future subscription fee is in the cards. Toyota does not charge a subscription fee in its other vehicles.
BWM and Toyota reminding people they can disable it as well.
OnTrack
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by OnTrack »

ThankYouJack wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 5:28 pm
illumination wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 5:14 pm
rockstar wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 4:17 pm I will no longer buy Subaru unless it's used. I test drove a Forester, and I found is disconcerting when the engine turned off at a stop light. I know this is to save gas, but I find it super annoying.
I absolutely hate that feature, I would almost call it a deal breaker if a car has it. What I don't understand is why not make it something you can turn off one time and not EVERY time you start the car.
I rented a Jeep Cherokee which had the same feature and I too found it annoying but got used to it after a couple days. I'm guessing the majority of cars will eventually do this to save gas/emissions.
A brief internet search indicates that at least some models of Acura, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Land Rover, Mercedes, Honda, Jaguar, Jeep, BMW, Buick, Ford, Lincoln, Hyundai, Kia, Bentley, Mazda, Saab, Toyota, Nissan, Volkswagen and Volvo have the stop/start feature. It may be that buying any new car may be a deal breaker going forward. In my limited experience with the feature, I didn't find it annoying and I am glad to reduce gas consumption. Of course, you also have the option to turn off the feature with a button, however I believe you need to press the button every time the car is restarted.
ponyboy
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by ponyboy »

The interior of 2020 foresters look like cheap plastic garbage. We wanted one but couldnt get over how cheap it looked, not to mention that dumb feature where your car shuts off whenever you stop. Should be able to disable that permanently. RAV4 limited was superior.
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Tubes
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Re: New Vehicle: Forester or Rav4 for boglehead couple

Post by Tubes »

OnTrack wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 10:54 pm A brief internet search indicates that at least some models of Acura, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Land Rover, Mercedes, Honda, Jaguar, Jeep, BMW, Buick, Ford, Lincoln, Hyundai, Kia, Bentley, Mazda, Saab, Toyota, Nissan, Volkswagen and Volvo have the stop/start feature. It may be that buying any new car may be a deal breaker going forward. In my limited experience with the feature, I didn't find it annoying and I am glad to reduce gas consumption. Of course, you also have the option to turn off the feature with a button, however I believe you need to press the button every time the car is restarted.
Yes, it is spreading far and wide.

Last fall we were tailgating at a sporting event and set up shop on a strip of grass where cars were lined up to get into the lot. It was stop and go. I was amazed hearing all the "car starting" sounds in the line, from every different type of brand.

I'm not a fan. My friend's Subaru has it, and it is somewhat subtle, but still irritating. My other friend just bought a super cheap (stripped model) Ford pickup. The start/stop on that vehicle is intrusive, probably because of the lack of insulation and isolation.
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