Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
User avatar
JoMoney
Posts: 10513
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:31 am

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by JoMoney »

Gort wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 8:37 pm
JoMoney wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 1:51 pm I get prices go up, but I find it annoying when additional charges are added in for something that's not optional.
Do I have a choice as to whether or not they use PPE when they provide the service?
Absolutely not. Why would anybody think otherwise in this high risk occupation?
Read the 5 words before the sentence you highlighted. Context. It was a rhetorical question.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
Marylander1
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:18 pm
Location: Baltimore & DC

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by Marylander1 »

JonnyDVM wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 7:50 pm It would make more sense to raise the cost of the cleaning. Clients don’t like to feel nickel and dimed. I would have said something there. If enough people do they will stop charging it.
If my dentist requests a reasonable PPE fee on my next visit, I'll pay it. Once treatments, vaccines, herd immunity, etc. cause pandemic concerns to abate, I'd expect both the fee and additional PPE to disappear. I'd prefer a temporary fee for a temporary need, not a permanent price increase.

Marylander1
User avatar
JonnyDVM
Posts: 2328
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:51 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by JonnyDVM »

Marylander1 wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 9:23 pm
JonnyDVM wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 7:50 pm It would make more sense to raise the cost of the cleaning. Clients don’t like to feel nickel and dimed. I would have said something there. If enough people do they will stop charging it.
If my dentist requests a reasonable PPE fee on my next visit, I'll pay it. Once treatments, vaccines, herd immunity, etc. cause pandemic concerns to abate, I'd expect both the fee and additional PPE to disappear. I'd prefer a temporary fee for a temporary need, not a permanent price increase.

Marylander1
Any service business is going to have increased costs due to covid. Costco isn’t charging me a plexiglass fee, the salon isn’t charging a disinfectant fee, and restaraunts aren’t charging a reduced capacity fee. They just raise their prices. I’m not saying that dental prices shouldn’t go up. I’m suggesting it would be a better business practice to just up the charge of the cleaning as I think it would alienate less clients.

Would OP have said anything if the cost of his cleaning went up $10? I sort of doubt it. It’s the PPE fee part of it that prompted the post.
I’d trade it all for a little more | -C Montgomery Burns
EnjoyIt
Posts: 5311
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by EnjoyIt »

JonnyDVM wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 9:35 pm
Marylander1 wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 9:23 pm
JonnyDVM wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 7:50 pm It would make more sense to raise the cost of the cleaning. Clients don’t like to feel nickel and dimed. I would have said something there. If enough people do they will stop charging it.
If my dentist requests a reasonable PPE fee on my next visit, I'll pay it. Once treatments, vaccines, herd immunity, etc. cause pandemic concerns to abate, I'd expect both the fee and additional PPE to disappear. I'd prefer a temporary fee for a temporary need, not a permanent price increase.

Marylander1
Any service business is going to have increased costs due to covid. Costco isn’t charging me a plexiglass fee, the salon isn’t charging a disinfectant fee, and restaraunts aren’t charging a reduced capacity fee. They just raise their prices. I’m not saying that dental prices shouldn’t go up. I’m suggesting it would be a better business practice to just up the charge of the cleaning as I think it would alienate less clients.

Would OP have said anything if the cost of his cleaning went up $10? I sort of doubt it. It’s the PPE fee part of it that prompted the post.
No, OP has bought a dental pre payment plan (he calls insurance) and expected the plan to cover all costs. Now that costs are higher OP is upset that his prepayment wasn’t enough.

Dental insurance is such a scam to begin with.
Why pay a middleman a fee to skim profits off the top of every transaction?

I think the big problem to this story is that the patient should be aware of this increased cost at the time they made the appointment before even leaving the house. This way they can decide if paying the higher fee is right for them.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79939&start=400#p5275418
takingcontrol
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:21 am

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by takingcontrol »

msi wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 12:10 pmThat's absurd.
Everybody is finding new ways to make money is this economy.

My local McDonald's writes with a grease marker on their drive-in window how many bags of ice they have and how much they are selling them for.

I've seen other restaraunts put up make-shift signs for toilet paper, paper towels, utensils, you name it.

Everyone's desperate to make a buck

People are starting to barter again.

I think some of this is actually a good sign. I just wish that we could get caravans of people out to that milk, livestock, and veggies before they plow them under. That's the real tragedy: people don't have money and going hungry and just a few hundred miles away they are destroying legendary amounts of perfectly good food.
Ztx
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:54 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by Ztx »

JonnyDVM wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 9:35 pm
Marylander1 wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 9:23 pm
JonnyDVM wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 7:50 pm It would make more sense to raise the cost of the cleaning. Clients don’t like to feel nickel and dimed. I would have said something there. If enough people do they will stop charging it.
If my dentist requests a reasonable PPE fee on my next visit, I'll pay it. Once treatments, vaccines, herd immunity, etc. cause pandemic concerns to abate, I'd expect both the fee and additional PPE to disappear. I'd prefer a temporary fee for a temporary need, not a permanent price increase.

Marylander1
Any service business is going to have increased costs due to covid. Costco isn’t charging me a plexiglass fee, the salon isn’t charging a disinfectant fee, and restaraunts aren’t charging a reduced capacity fee. They just raise their prices. I’m not saying that dental prices shouldn’t go up. I’m suggesting it would be a better business practice to just up the charge of the cleaning as I think it would alienate less clients.

Would OP have said anything if the cost of his cleaning went up $10? I sort of doubt it. It’s the PPE fee part of it that prompted the post.
They can’t simply raise the price, unlike other businesses.
LoveTheBogle
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:53 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by LoveTheBogle »

Dental insurance is a major scam. The United States as a whole needs to divorce the dental insurance as an employment benefit. Don’t give insurance and simply pay people more. Let people decide how and where they spend their money. If they don’t want to spend it on routine visits then don’t bail them out when their teeth rot caused by their neglect. Make your own choices and pay the consequences.

The ppe fees should be disclosed up front, preferably in advance. If dental insurance wasn’t such a scam then there would be actual competition in the dental market place with pricing transparency (ie price listed online, easily obtainable on the phone or even a dentist menu at time of check in). Provide a good service at a fair price and you’ll have as much work as you want. Let the dentists go out of business that suck at their job (more to being a dentist than simply working in a mouth). If dentistry doesn’t pay as much so there are less dentists in the marketplace then wonderful, supply reduced and prices can increase for the people who want to become a dentist. Let the market decide the balance, not nonsense dental insurance conveniently provided by an employer whom pays you that much less because of the behind the scenes premiums. Insurance is only there to collect as much premium as possible while paying the least amount out in claims. They are also behind the scenes and ‘faceless’ so they get away with a lot more.

Insurance is the problem. It isn’t the frontline workers (dentist in this case).

If only more people acted upon the above belief then we would be much better off as a society.
folkher0
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:48 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by folkher0 »

I can imagine very few scenarios that would put a provider at higher exposure for covid than dentistry. Spending minutes or hours working in someone’s orophranx. The drilling, the scraping, the inevitable coughs.

I wouldn’t do it without at least an N95 and a face shield. While we have reused N95s, we recycle them when they are contaminated. The likelihood of contamination during dental work would strike me as high. If a mask is contaminated with droplets it no longer functions as a filter. I would Ideally probably not reuse an N95 in this application.

The price of PPE is several times what it was several months ago. The availability of medical grade N95 masks is scarce. Many hospitals have turned to masks designed for industrial, not medical applications. Chinese made KN95s are becoming common.

Your dentist is likely seeing a fraction of the patients he/she saw pre covid. Expenses are high.

I guess what I’m saying is that I would happily pay a dentist an extra $10 for all the above reasons. I wouldn’t blink an eye, and I would not go to a dentist unless all of those precautions were being taken.
Last edited by folkher0 on Wed May 13, 2020 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MondayMorningQB
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 7:04 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by MondayMorningQB »

Lots of variables here but many good points have been made. We call our patients to confirm appointments and let them know our new process and that there will be a $10 PPE fee. Our patients have been happy to pay it. I believe our staff does a great job of informing everyone what the cost is for and people don’t mind. Initially I was planning on dropping most insurances but our patients have been so understanding about the fee that I may not have to drop their insurances now. Theres one in particular that I hate to drop because costs will go up tremendously for the school teachers that have that insurance because I’m the only provider for them in the area but it may not make financial sense to continue. I’ll revisit the issue in a month.

Knowing what I know, I would be concerned if a dentist did NOT charge a PPE fee. Are those dentists just reusing the same gowns and PPE on all subsequent patients? I guarantee you that some are. Our PPE and staff overhead has increased and our capacity to see patients has decreased.

I now have two staff members dedicated to new positions. One screens all patients and escorts them to the chair. The other runs sterilization and constantly cleans the office. These are two people on the payroll doing non revenue generating jobs that I did not need before.

Of our 5 hygienists (pre corona) I’ve so far only brought back two. A third will start seeing her patients next week. Patient demand is actually surprisingly high but our capacity is so much lower due to all precautions. Logistics has been a nightmare.

I think $10 is reasonable and if a patient doesn’t want to pay it then no hard feelings on my end. There’s a dentist for everyone. Just find one that shares your values.
clip651
Posts: 821
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:02 am

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by clip651 »

The funny thing about "insurance is the problem" for dentists - our family has never had dental insurance. Pay as we go, whether that is routine care or more extensive work - over the decades, that has included fillings, braces, crowns, bridges, dentures, etc for various family members. The bigger items do put a dent in the budget, but we handle it similar to fixing the roof, replacing the furnace, or repairing the car. But when we hit the front desk after the dental appointment and pay, the reception staff are always a bit incredulous about us not having insurance, and being prepared to pay what we owe. Same thing happens at the optometrist, come to think of it. Are we really the lone rangers on this? Do most dental patients have dental insurance?
Pu239
Posts: 334
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:24 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by Pu239 »

I expect dental costs to increase because of the pandemic so a PPE fee is not a big surprise. If a significant percentage of dentists go out of business, costs will rise simply due to decreased competition. I'd rather help keep my dentist in business paying hopefully what is a short term (1 to 2 years) fee than be faced with higher rates caused by a dentist shortage.
Between the idea And the reality...Between the motion And the act...Falls the Shadow - T. S. Eliot
folkher0
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:48 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by folkher0 »

MondayMorningQB wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 10:30 pm Lots of variables here but many good points have been made. We call our patients to confirm appointments and let them know our new process and that there will be a $10 PPE fee. Our patients have been happy to pay it. I believe our staff does a great job of informing everyone what the cost is for and people don’t mind. Initially I was planning on dropping most insurances but our patients have been so understanding about the fee that I may not have to drop their insurances now. Theres one in particular that I hate to drop because costs will go up tremendously for the school teachers that have that insurance because I’m the only provider for them in the area but it may not make financial sense to continue. I’ll revisit the issue in a month.

Knowing what I know, I would be concerned if a dentist did NOT charge a PPE fee. Are those dentists just reusing the same gowns and PPE on all subsequent patients? I guarantee you that some are. Our PPE and staff overhead has increased and our capacity to see patients has decreased.

I now have two staff members dedicated to new positions. One screens all patients and escorts them to the chair. The other runs sterilization and constantly cleans the office. These are two people on the payroll doing non revenue generating jobs that I did not need before.

Of our 5 hygienists (pre corona) I’ve so far only brought back two. A third will start seeing her patients next week. Patient demand is actually surprisingly high but our capacity is so much lower due to all precautions. Logistics has been a nightmare.

I think $10 is reasonable and if a patient doesn’t want to pay it then no hard feelings on my end. There’s a dentist for everyone. Just find one that shares your values.
You sound like you should be my dentist.
User avatar
eye.surgeon
Posts: 746
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:19 pm
Location: California

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by eye.surgeon »

I'd bet more than happy to pay $10 for my dentist to feel like he wasn't risking his life to see me. They need a N95 mask for every patient. My practice just paid $2.50 per mask for a bunch of them and even at that price they were hard to get. Add a shield and gown and gloves, not hard to hit $10.
"I would rather be certain of a good return than hopeful of a great one" | Warren Buffett
toofache32
Posts: 2185
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:30 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by toofache32 »

Dentist here. I haven't read past the first few responses.

We are charging $25 starting soon for procedures (not consults). There is no profit in this, it's just covering the costs calculated for increased costs in PPE. As our costs increase, this gets passed on to the customer. We used to wear level 3 masks which were pennies. N95 masks were rarely needed and were less than a dollar each. Now they are $8 each. And a higher level gown is $2 each. So my cost is about $10 per person in materials we did not have to use before. For most procedures, I have me, my assistant, and my circulator. So $30 total is what it costs me. For a $200 procedure, just eat 15% of the cost in addition to the usual costs? Not very Boglehead....
User avatar
Cubicle
Posts: 942
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:43 am

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by Cubicle »

I'd pay the fee. I'd prefer not to, but a good dentist + them not closing = I'd rather not lose them.
"Oh look another bajillion point declin-Ooooh!!! A coupon for pizza!!!!" <--- This is what everyone's IPS should be. ✓✓✓
Topic Author
Kennedy
Posts: 642
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:47 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by Kennedy »

toofache32 wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 10:54 pm Dentist here. I haven't read past the first few responses.

We are charging $25 starting soon for procedures (not consults). There is no profit in this, it's just covering the costs calculated for increased costs in PPE. As our costs increase, this gets passed on to the customer. We used to wear level 3 masks which were pennies. N95 masks were rarely needed and were less than a dollar each. Now they are $8 each. And a higher level gown is $2 each. So my cost is about $10 per person in materials we did not have to use before. For most procedures, I have me, my assistant, and my circulator. So $30 total is what it costs me. For a $200 procedure, just eat 15% of the cost in addition to the usual costs? Not very Boglehead....
I'm curious if you plan to re-use the PPE, gloves excluded, of course. I read the ADA position in that the same mask can be used for up to five patients if it is removed in-between and all day if not removed, which isn't practical. I'm assuming you're oral maxillary (maybe I'm wrong here), so perhaps you have a different standard?

My local ER doctors/nurses use the same N95 mask all day and the same gown all day (unless soiled).
Teague
Posts: 2127
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:15 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by Teague »

I suspect part of the problem comes from some organizations historically charging bogus "extra" fees. Like the car dealership "doc" fee. The cable company "regulatory cost recovery fee." Hotel "resort fees." Consumers have come to view novel fees with suspicion, often for good reason. Good communication from the provider to the patient explaining the situation will be critical to preventing hard feelings. For example, in this thread my initial position was one of suspicion and slight outrage. Having read some explanations from providers here, I understand the situation better and have softened my position. Though conversely, there were other providers on this thread that came across less informative and more entitled, to me. I think it's all in the presentation.
Semper Augustus
frugaltigris
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:44 am

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by frugaltigris »

whodidntante wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 1:23 pm
Swansea wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 1:17 pm
flyfishers83 wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 12:28 pm That's interesting, and there's been lots of discussion among the dental community. Some have talked about adding a surcharge, but this is the first time I've actually heard of it being done. I don't know if it's actually OK to do, but there's lots of unknowns right now. My wife is the dental director for a couple of clinics. If they can get supplies, the cost has increased exponentially. They are also investing 10s of thousands of dollars in extra equipment to reduce aerosols and air filtration.

The PPE is expensive, but the real burden is going to be reduced case loads. Her team of hygienists hasn't seen a single patient since March 16. Neither the hygienists nor the dentists will be seeing nearly the same number of patients due to screening protocols, extra PPE protocols, cleaning and spacing of appointments.
I agree, their income will take a big hit as volume will decrease. My doc will have patients wait in their cars if the waiting room can not support social distancing.
Owning a business is high risk for a potentially high reward. The risk just showed up. It's not up to me to ensure they are successful or even viable. They certainly do not share the profits with me in the good times.
Well said. If someone charges me for this kind of charges I will shoot this argument
frugaltigris
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:44 am

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by frugaltigris »

Cubicle wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 10:56 pm I'd pay the fee. I'd prefer not to, but a good dentist + them not closing = I'd rather not lose them.
I wonder if my restricted FSA would cover that.
toofache32
Posts: 2185
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:30 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by toofache32 »

Kennedy wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 11:01 pm
toofache32 wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 10:54 pm Dentist here. I haven't read past the first few responses.

We are charging $25 starting soon for procedures (not consults). There is no profit in this, it's just covering the costs calculated for increased costs in PPE. As our costs increase, this gets passed on to the customer. We used to wear level 3 masks which were pennies. N95 masks were rarely needed and were less than a dollar each. Now they are $8 each. And a higher level gown is $2 each. So my cost is about $10 per person in materials we did not have to use before. For most procedures, I have me, my assistant, and my circulator. So $30 total is what it costs me. For a $200 procedure, just eat 15% of the cost in addition to the usual costs? Not very Boglehead....
I'm curious if you plan to re-use the PPE, gloves excluded, of course. I read the ADA position in that the same mask can be used for up to five patients if it is removed in-between and all day if not removed, which isn't practical. I'm assuming you're oral maxillary (maybe I'm wrong here), so perhaps you have a different standard?

My local ER doctors/nurses use the same N95 mask all day and the same gown all day (unless soiled).
I am currently using an N95 mask all day to preserve masks for my employees. Also to preserve masks until we can get more. I wear a level 3 surgical mask with faceshield over the N95 to protect the N95 from splatter, which would require me to dispose of the mask. I calculate in about 3 weeks we will be out and hopefully can get more before then. Gloves can be turned inside out to be used again. Just kidding.

I agree with others it would be simplest to just raise fees to make everything all-inclusive. The problem is that with insurance, fees are set by the insurance company, not the dentist. It doesn't matter how much I "bill" the insurance company, they pay THEIR set fee. This is why those who say "just bill the insurance" are grossly misinformed on how it works. There is not a code for every scenario out there, which is why "miscellaneous" fee codes exist such as D1999. Dental insurance companies never pay these codes. It's just a way to enter the itemized fee into our computer for tracking and running reports.
frugaltigris
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:44 am

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by frugaltigris »

MondayMorningQB wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 10:30 pm Lots of variables here but many good points have been made. We call our patients to confirm appointments and let them know our new process and that there will be a $10 PPE fee. Our patients have been happy to pay it. I believe our staff does a great job of informing everyone what the cost is for and people don’t mind. Initially I was planning on dropping most insurances but our patients have been so understanding about the fee that I may not have to drop their insurances now. Theres one in particular that I hate to drop because costs will go up tremendously for the school teachers that have that insurance because I’m the only provider for them in the area but it may not make financial sense to continue. I’ll revisit the issue in a month.

Knowing what I know, I would be concerned if a dentist did NOT charge a PPE fee. Are those dentists just reusing the same gowns and PPE on all subsequent patients? I guarantee you that some are. Our PPE and staff overhead has increased and our capacity to see patients has decreased.

I now have two staff members dedicated to new positions. One screens all patients and escorts them to the chair. The other runs sterilization and constantly cleans the office. These are two people on the payroll doing non revenue generating jobs that I did not need before.

Of our 5 hygienists (pre corona) I’ve so far only brought back two. A third will start seeing her patients next week. Patient demand is actually surprisingly high but our capacity is so much lower due to all precautions. Logistics has been a nightmare.

I think $10 is reasonable and if a patient doesn’t want to pay it then no hard feelings on my end. There’s a dentist for everyone. Just find one that shares your values.
I have always found dentists to be over-extracting and almost similar to used car dealerships, except in good dental schools. Probably my dentist is in a Third World -- cheap, better and honest.
frugaltigris
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:44 am

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by frugaltigris »

JonnyDVM wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 9:35 pm
Marylander1 wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 9:23 pm
JonnyDVM wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 7:50 pm It would make more sense to raise the cost of the cleaning. Clients don’t like to feel nickel and dimed. I would have said something there. If enough people do they will stop charging it.
If my dentist requests a reasonable PPE fee on my next visit, I'll pay it. Once treatments, vaccines, herd immunity, etc. cause pandemic concerns to abate, I'd expect both the fee and additional PPE to disappear. I'd prefer a temporary fee for a temporary need, not a permanent price increase.

Marylander1
Any service business is going to have increased costs due to covid. Costco isn’t charging me a plexiglass fee, the salon isn’t charging a disinfectant fee, and restaraunts aren’t charging a reduced capacity fee. They just raise their prices. I’m not saying that dental prices shouldn’t go up. I’m suggesting it would be a better business practice to just up the charge of the cleaning as I think it would alienate less clients.
That is the way it should be. But, insurance companies know these scams well and would not reimburse PPE "fee"
Luckywon
Posts: 1214
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:33 am

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by Luckywon »

frugaltigris wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 11:54 pm Probably my dentist is in a Third World -- cheap, better and honest.
Is this based on experience? Could you provide further detail? This is quite interesting.
palanzo
Posts: 1836
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:28 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by palanzo »

Ztx wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 9:57 pm
JonnyDVM wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 9:35 pm
Marylander1 wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 9:23 pm
JonnyDVM wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 7:50 pm It would make more sense to raise the cost of the cleaning. Clients don’t like to feel nickel and dimed. I would have said something there. If enough people do they will stop charging it.
If my dentist requests a reasonable PPE fee on my next visit, I'll pay it. Once treatments, vaccines, herd immunity, etc. cause pandemic concerns to abate, I'd expect both the fee and additional PPE to disappear. I'd prefer a temporary fee for a temporary need, not a permanent price increase.

Marylander1
Any service business is going to have increased costs due to covid. Costco isn’t charging me a plexiglass fee, the salon isn’t charging a disinfectant fee, and restaraunts aren’t charging a reduced capacity fee. They just raise their prices. I’m not saying that dental prices shouldn’t go up. I’m suggesting it would be a better business practice to just up the charge of the cleaning as I think it would alienate less clients.

Would OP have said anything if the cost of his cleaning went up $10? I sort of doubt it. It’s the PPE fee part of it that prompted the post.
They can’t simply raise the price, unlike other businesses.
Of course they can. And they have. Charges for cleanings and X Rays have gone up over time.
palanzo
Posts: 1836
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:28 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by palanzo »

Pu239 wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 10:33 pm I expect dental costs to increase because of the pandemic so a PPE fee is not a big surprise. If a significant percentage of dentists go out of business, costs will rise simply due to decreased competition. I'd rather help keep my dentist in business paying hopefully what is a short term (1 to 2 years) fee than be faced with higher rates caused by a dentist shortage.
Except that if we get to the point when the fee is no longer valid you can be sure that dental practices will not stop charging the fee. It's a business. Just like the temporary state taxes that turn out not to be temporary. Unfortunately there are lots of examples of this behavior.
palanzo
Posts: 1836
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:28 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by palanzo »

Teague wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 11:16 pm I suspect part of the problem comes from some organizations historically charging bogus "extra" fees. Like the car dealership "doc" fee. The cable company "regulatory cost recovery fee." Hotel "resort fees." Consumers have come to view novel fees with suspicion, often for good reason. Good communication from the provider to the patient explaining the situation will be critical to preventing hard feelings. For example, in this thread my initial position was one of suspicion and slight outrage. Having read some explanations from providers here, I understand the situation better and have softened my position. Though conversely, there were other providers on this thread that came across less informative and more entitled, to me. I think it's all in the presentation.
+1
palanzo
Posts: 1836
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:28 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by palanzo »

toofache32 wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 11:54 pm
Kennedy wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 11:01 pm
toofache32 wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 10:54 pm Dentist here. I haven't read past the first few responses.

We are charging $25 starting soon for procedures (not consults). There is no profit in this, it's just covering the costs calculated for increased costs in PPE. As our costs increase, this gets passed on to the customer. We used to wear level 3 masks which were pennies. N95 masks were rarely needed and were less than a dollar each. Now they are $8 each. And a higher level gown is $2 each. So my cost is about $10 per person in materials we did not have to use before. For most procedures, I have me, my assistant, and my circulator. So $30 total is what it costs me. For a $200 procedure, just eat 15% of the cost in addition to the usual costs? Not very Boglehead....
I'm curious if you plan to re-use the PPE, gloves excluded, of course. I read the ADA position in that the same mask can be used for up to five patients if it is removed in-between and all day if not removed, which isn't practical. I'm assuming you're oral maxillary (maybe I'm wrong here), so perhaps you have a different standard?

My local ER doctors/nurses use the same N95 mask all day and the same gown all day (unless soiled).
I am currently using an N95 mask all day to preserve masks for my employees. Also to preserve masks until we can get more. I wear a level 3 surgical mask with faceshield over the N95 to protect the N95 from splatter, which would require me to dispose of the mask. I calculate in about 3 weeks we will be out and hopefully can get more before then. Gloves can be turned inside out to be used again. Just kidding.

I agree with others it would be simplest to just raise fees to make everything all-inclusive. The problem is that with insurance, fees are set by the insurance company, not the dentist. It doesn't matter how much I "bill" the insurance company, they pay THEIR set fee. This is why those who say "just bill the insurance" are grossly misinformed on how it works. There is not a code for every scenario out there, which is why "miscellaneous" fee codes exist such as D1999. Dental insurance companies never pay these codes. It's just a way to enter the itemized fee into our computer for tracking and running reports.
Who then sets the fees for patients who do not have "insurance". There are many in this category.
TheOscarGuy
Posts: 1129
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:10 pm
Location: Where I wanna be.

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by TheOscarGuy »

Kennedy wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 12:01 pm I just had a cleaning/exam visit with my dentist. I have insurance and the bill for my cleanings generally does not have a co-pay. However, this time she charged me $10 to pay for their PPE.

I really like this dentist and have never had a problem with her before, so I just paid it and left.

Shouldn't the dentist and hygienist be wearing PPE anyway, something I usually don't have to pay for? And with their contract with my insurance company, aren't I guaranteed no co-pay? This seems like an odd expense to pass along to the customer, but maybe I'm wrong here.

Sure, it's only $10 for me, but the rest of my family have upcoming appointments so I'll be paying that fee for each one of them.

I really didn't notice what kind of mask they were wearing, so perhaps it was an N95, which costs more than a surgical mask. But is the difference in price really $10? I'm wondering if the fee could also be making up for the fewer patients she will see during the day due to increased time for turn-overs.

Should I have raised the issue in the office before I left, or is my concern unwarranted? I'm not sure how to handle this when the rest of the family goes in for their visits.
Given current shortages, and folks hoarding these things, I am fine with paying extra $10. Assuming we have more production the short supply may go away, and this may be for just a short internal. Just my guess.
ponyboy
Posts: 1019
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:39 am

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by ponyboy »

eye.surgeon wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 10:46 pm I'd bet more than happy to pay $10 for my dentist to feel like he wasn't risking his life to see me. They need a N95 mask for every patient. My practice just paid $2.50 per mask for a bunch of them and even at that price they were hard to get. Add a shield and gown and gloves, not hard to hit $10.
Mine has always used a mask, face shield and latex gloves. Nothing has changed. They better not start charging extra for these same things theyve used forever.
spectec
Posts: 1591
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:00 am

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by spectec »

I visited my dentist the first day they reopened. Everyone was wearing N95 masks covered by surgical masks, then a face shield. I assume they were discarding he surgical mask after each patient, or on some rotational basis. This is extraordinary protection compared to what they normally use. I expected them to charge a fee for extraordinary PPE costs, and was surprised when they didn't.

My barber should be to adding a surcharge for the extra PPE he will be using. If he doesn't I'll add more to the usual tip. The restaurant I'm visiting today will likely have half the usual customers and will be using many more disposable items than they usually do, and their employees are serving less customers so their tips will be lower. I expect to pay more for my meal and will also tip higher.

All in all, I appreciate the efforts these people are making to protect my health and safety and health and safety of their employees. It costs money and I expect to pay my fair share. In most cases, it they posted a sign saying they need an additional $10 per patient/customer/client to cover their costs but can't charge it due to contract restrictions or customer objections, I'd probably pay the upcharge and a little extra to help offset the burden non-paying customers are causing.
Last edited by spectec on Thu May 14, 2020 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Don't gamble; take all your savings and buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it. - Will Rogers
User avatar
3wood
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:21 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by 3wood »

Not sure why such a smart, savy group of people here at Bogleheads don't seem to understand an increased cost of doing business will ultimately be passed onto the customer. Either pay your $10 fee (very reasonable, btw) or go to another dentists who raised all his/her fees by $10. I expect to pay more for many things post Covid. The new norm...
student
Posts: 5305
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by student »

toofache32 wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 11:54 pm Gloves can be turned inside out to be used again. Just kidding.
This is actually a design and analysis algorithm problem that most cs students will see a variant of. The PG version is a surgeon and gloves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glove_problem

For example, one can put on two pairs of gloves where the two dirty sides touch each other. Of course, this is just a theoretical solution and not practical.

I will leave it to you to think of the x-rated version.
EnjoyIt
Posts: 5311
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by EnjoyIt »

ponyboy wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 6:05 am
eye.surgeon wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 10:46 pm I'd bet more than happy to pay $10 for my dentist to feel like he wasn't risking his life to see me. They need a N95 mask for every patient. My practice just paid $2.50 per mask for a bunch of them and even at that price they were hard to get. Add a shield and gown and gloves, not hard to hit $10.
Mine has always used a mask, face shield and latex gloves. Nothing has changed. They better not start charging extra for these same things theyve used forever.
It is a different and more expensive type of mask they now need to wear. Not just to protect themselves but to also protect you.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79939&start=400#p5275418
michaeljc70
Posts: 7382
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by michaeljc70 »

I think a lot of posts are missing the key point. The dentist has a contract with an insurance company and there is a contracted rate. The OP has a contract with the insurance provider. The question is do the contracts allow additional charges beyond what was standard before? This is not a matter of a business raising prices or adding surcharges where no contracts are involved. That is a completely different situation.
newDDS
Posts: 90
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:52 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by newDDS »

As a dentist myself this unfortunately has been a slippery slope. To acquire proper n95 or certified kn95 masks you need to buy in orders over 1000 and at $5-7/mask. Costly endeavor after being closed for 6+ weeks. For a cleaning, at minimum you will see a doctor and hygienist, 2 masks.

Add in surgical gowns, face shields, additional cleaning costs, decreased amount of patients allowed to be seen, costs increasing drastically. Currently dental insurance has refused to cover added expenses. Pre COVD the average overhead in a dental office is between 60-80%.

Not all offices are charging a fee, some around increasing fees elsewhere to make up for additional costs, others will be adjusting in a few months after discussing with their accountants.

On a separate note. Dental insurance is a joke. In 1950 when my Grandfather became a Dentist insurance companies would cover $750-1000/year with very minimal restrictions. A dental crown cost was around $100. Today dental insurance covers $1000-1500, with countless restrictions on how to use your benefits. A Crown today costs between $1000-1750 depending on location.

Your choice on returning or not, but with the costs of doing business increasing everywhere this is what will happen.
HomeStretch
Posts: 5377
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:06 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by HomeStretch »

I appreciate the courage it takes to be in the health field during a pandemic. If my dentist charges $10-$20 extra temporarily for personal/office protective measures or for hazard pay or to help stay solvent, I am happy to contribute.
jadedfalcons
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:55 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by jadedfalcons »

My dentist is also a very good customer of mine, but he told me a few weeks ago that they were going to have to start wearing face shields instead of masks, plus extra sanitation between clients. That's not a negligible expense for them. If he charges me $10 for it, I'll shrug and say that I'm fortunate that my life is comfortable enough that it's not worth saving $10 2x a year to change.
User avatar
Elsebet
Posts: 987
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:28 pm
Location: Erie, PA

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by Elsebet »

I got an email from my dentist notifying me of a $22 charge for future visits for PPE, $10 sounds reasonable in comparison. :)
"...the man who adapts himself to his slender means and makes himself wealthy on a little sum, is the truly rich man..." ~Seneca
Luckywon
Posts: 1214
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:33 am

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by Luckywon »

ponyboy wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 6:05 am

Mine has always used a mask, face shield and latex gloves. Nothing has changed. They better not start charging extra for these same things theyve used forever.
Something has changed. Every patient visit now has to be considered one where there is a significant chance a potentially fatal virus has been aerolized into the air. Therefore the type of mask has changed to more expensive and the number of people in the practice wearing that level of protection has changed. Every person walking into the room even for a second has to wear one. Possibly, even staff outside the room may need them. The number of people wearing gowns has changed. The time and staff it takes to clean the rooms between patients have increased. The dentist may have to pay more in salaries to retain staff working under hazardous conditions. All that costs money, and more than $10. If they are not charging extra, I'd be worried they are cutting corners.
Last edited by Luckywon on Thu May 14, 2020 9:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
Ruger
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:44 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by Ruger »

I would rather have the dentist just raise their standard fee by $10 if they really need to. Otherwise I feel like I'm getting nickeled and dimed to death.
DetroitRick
Posts: 877
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:28 am
Location: SE Michigan

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by DetroitRick »

I would be absolutely okay with it. I spent a ton of time choosing my dentist in the first place. Considered her aesthetic abilities, material choices, infection control protocols, technical knowledge, honesty and staff quality. Beyond that, I looked at reasonable fee structure. Now, a $10 fee, or rate increase, would have no influence at all on my decision to stay.

This office used extensive ppe before too (think hepatitis and other risks). Face shields, gowns at times, equipment covers, masks, surface cleaning techniques. But now those costs are radically higher, some of that gear is upgraded for current risks, patient loads are much more staggered, and cleaning seems more extensive. Costs are clearly higher. So, it would be okay by me.
surfstar
Posts: 2363
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by surfstar »

4 pages on a $10 fee for PPE

Are we all out of problems? Maybe this is a positive economic indicator?
EnjoyIt
Posts: 5311
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by EnjoyIt »

michaeljc70 wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 9:05 am I think a lot of posts are missing the key point. The dentist has a contract with an insurance company and there is a contracted rate. The OP has a contract with the insurance provider. The question is do the contracts allow additional charges beyond what was standard before? This is not a matter of a business raising prices or adding surcharges where no contracts are involved. That is a completely different situation.
I think you are missing the point. It is either charge a fee or not see patients.

Here is an option for you. They wear the same mask all the time, don't clean up after you and you get sick. Or you can just not get your teeth taken care of.

What good is your dental pre-payment plan (insurance) if you don't have a dentist to go to?
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79939&start=400#p5275418
EnjoyIt
Posts: 5311
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by EnjoyIt »

surfstar wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 10:07 am 4 pages on a $10 fee for PPE

Are we all out of problems? Maybe this is a positive economic indicator?
Actually, I think it is really sad that there are smart people here who think that somehow the $10 is a scam. Unbelievable.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79939&start=400#p5275418
michaeljc70
Posts: 7382
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by michaeljc70 »

EnjoyIt wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 10:22 am
michaeljc70 wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 9:05 am I think a lot of posts are missing the key point. The dentist has a contract with an insurance company and there is a contracted rate. The OP has a contract with the insurance provider. The question is do the contracts allow additional charges beyond what was standard before? This is not a matter of a business raising prices or adding surcharges where no contracts are involved. That is a completely different situation.
I think you are missing the point. It is either charge a fee or not see patients.

Here is an option for you. They wear the same mask all the time, don't clean up after you and you get sick. Or you can just not get your teeth taken care of.

What good is your dental pre-payment plan (insurance) if you don't have a dentist to go to?
Say you have a 2 year contract with AT&T for internet for X dollars and are 4 months into it. Is it okay for AT&T to say due to the virus, people working from home, watching more Netflix, etc. we are incurring a lot of additional costs and we are charging you an extra $x per month? Contracts mean nothing? Frankly, 40% of people making less than $40k are unemployed and I'm less worried about my dentist's finances than them.

Personally, I would wait for a cleaning as it isn't that important given what is going on.
User avatar
8foot7
Posts: 2430
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:29 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by 8foot7 »

EnjoyIt wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 10:24 am
surfstar wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 10:07 am 4 pages on a $10 fee for PPE

Are we all out of problems? Maybe this is a positive economic indicator?
Actually, I think it is really sad that there are smart people here who think that somehow the $10 is a scam. Unbelievable.
The point is not that it's a scam -- it's not -- but that charging nuisance fees like this, whether they reflect an actual true cost increase or not, is a violation of a prior agreement and it looks like in many cases has been done with no notice. If dentists ate this cost this time and gave everyone fair warning that at their next cleaning, there would be a PPE fee of X amount charged, that would be one thing. Also, $10 might not be so bad; someone above said a $25 per person fee was being charged. For a family or four that's a material expense twice a year they didn't have before, at a time when some folks are under- or unemployed. Also, these types of fees don't tend to go away. I'm sure once PPE retreats in cost the dentist will think, well, damn, I lost of lot of money being closed for two months, I'll hang on to this extra $10 a patient to try to rebuild my coffers. And then the next crisis comes and instead of $10, it's another $10 on top of the other $10.
EnjoyIt
Posts: 5311
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by EnjoyIt »

michaeljc70 wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 10:33 am
EnjoyIt wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 10:22 am
michaeljc70 wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 9:05 am I think a lot of posts are missing the key point. The dentist has a contract with an insurance company and there is a contracted rate. The OP has a contract with the insurance provider. The question is do the contracts allow additional charges beyond what was standard before? This is not a matter of a business raising prices or adding surcharges where no contracts are involved. That is a completely different situation.
I think you are missing the point. It is either charge a fee or not see patients.

Here is an option for you. They wear the same mask all the time, don't clean up after you and you get sick. Or you can just not get your teeth taken care of.

What good is your dental pre-payment plan (insurance) if you don't have a dentist to go to?
Say you have a 2 year contract with AT&T for internet for X dollars and are 4 months into it. Is it okay for AT&T to say due to the virus, people working from home, watching more Netflix, etc. we are incurring a lot of additional costs and we are charging you an extra $x per month? Contracts mean nothing? Frankly, 40% of people making less than $40k are unemployed and I'm less worried about my dentist's finances than them.

Personally, I would wait for a cleaning as it isn't that important given what is going on.
When the government imposes increased fees on AT&T, those fees get passed down to the consumer irrespective i=of what your contract says. You gave a very poor example.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79939&start=400#p5275418
michaeljc70
Posts: 7382
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by michaeljc70 »

EnjoyIt wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 10:48 am
michaeljc70 wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 10:33 am
EnjoyIt wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 10:22 am
michaeljc70 wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 9:05 am I think a lot of posts are missing the key point. The dentist has a contract with an insurance company and there is a contracted rate. The OP has a contract with the insurance provider. The question is do the contracts allow additional charges beyond what was standard before? This is not a matter of a business raising prices or adding surcharges where no contracts are involved. That is a completely different situation.
I think you are missing the point. It is either charge a fee or not see patients.

Here is an option for you. They wear the same mask all the time, don't clean up after you and you get sick. Or you can just not get your teeth taken care of.

What good is your dental pre-payment plan (insurance) if you don't have a dentist to go to?
Say you have a 2 year contract with AT&T for internet for X dollars and are 4 months into it. Is it okay for AT&T to say due to the virus, people working from home, watching more Netflix, etc. we are incurring a lot of additional costs and we are charging you an extra $x per month? Contracts mean nothing? Frankly, 40% of people making less than $40k are unemployed and I'm less worried about my dentist's finances than them.

Personally, I would wait for a cleaning as it isn't that important given what is going on.
When the government imposes increased fees on AT&T, those fees get passed down to the consumer irrespective i=of what your contract says. You gave a very poor example.
:oops: These PPE fees are not government imposed and I made no reference to government imposed fees regarding AT&T so I have no idea what your comment means. Both are increased costs to a business under a contract that have nothing to do with the government. You changed my example and then said it was bad.
Last edited by michaeljc70 on Thu May 14, 2020 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
EnjoyIt
Posts: 5311
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by EnjoyIt »

8foot7 wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 10:45 am
EnjoyIt wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 10:24 am
surfstar wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 10:07 am 4 pages on a $10 fee for PPE

Are we all out of problems? Maybe this is a positive economic indicator?
Actually, I think it is really sad that there are smart people here who think that somehow the $10 is a scam. Unbelievable.
The point is not that it's a scam -- it's not -- but that charging nuisance fees like this, whether they reflect an actual true cost increase or not, is a violation of a prior agreement and it looks like in many cases has been done with no notice. If dentists ate this cost this time and gave everyone fair warning that at their next cleaning, there would be a PPE fee of X amount charged, that would be one thing. Also, $10 might not be so bad; someone above said a $25 per person fee was being charged. For a family or four that's a material expense twice a year they didn't have before, at a time when some folks are under- or unemployed. Also, these types of fees don't tend to go away. I'm sure once PPE retreats in cost the dentist will think, well, damn, I lost of lot of money being closed for two months, I'll hang on to this extra $10 a patient to try to rebuild my coffers. And then the next crisis comes and instead of $10, it's another $10 on top of the other $10.
Let's not try and predict the future. I'm sure we will all agree that none of us are good at it.

I agree that the patient should be aware of this fee during time of scheduling the appointment. At worst a few days before the actual appointment so that they can decide if the fee is worth paying for them.

I also do not see this as a violation of any agreement. If you want to go to a dentist that does not care about your safety or theirs, feel free to find someone who does not wear an N95 mask or clean up after each patient. Like any other business, the cost of doing business has increased, and like every other business that cost is passed down to the consumer.

The dental pre-payment plan (insurance) will take care of the cleaning fee, but for you to enter the doors there is a safety charge and this dentist charges $10 for everyone's safety. This charge has nothing to do with the actual dental procedure fee.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79939&start=400#p5275418
EnjoyIt
Posts: 5311
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Dentist charges $10 for PPE

Post by EnjoyIt »

michaeljc70 wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 10:51 am
EnjoyIt wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 10:48 am
michaeljc70 wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 10:33 am
EnjoyIt wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 10:22 am
michaeljc70 wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 9:05 am I think a lot of posts are missing the key point. The dentist has a contract with an insurance company and there is a contracted rate. The OP has a contract with the insurance provider. The question is do the contracts allow additional charges beyond what was standard before? This is not a matter of a business raising prices or adding surcharges where no contracts are involved. That is a completely different situation.
I think you are missing the point. It is either charge a fee or not see patients.

Here is an option for you. They wear the same mask all the time, don't clean up after you and you get sick. Or you can just not get your teeth taken care of.

What good is your dental pre-payment plan (insurance) if you don't have a dentist to go to?
Say you have a 2 year contract with AT&T for internet for X dollars and are 4 months into it. Is it okay for AT&T to say due to the virus, people working from home, watching more Netflix, etc. we are incurring a lot of additional costs and we are charging you an extra $x per month? Contracts mean nothing? Frankly, 40% of people making less than $40k are unemployed and I'm less worried about my dentist's finances than them.

Personally, I would wait for a cleaning as it isn't that important given what is going on.
When the government imposes increased fees on AT&T, those fees get passed down to the consumer irrespective i=of what your contract says. You gave a very poor example.
:oops: These PPE fees are not government imposed and I made no reference to government imposed fees regarding AT&T so I have no idea what your comment means. Both are increased costs to a business under a contract that have nothing to do with the government.
:oops: :oops:
You gave me a crappy example and I responded in kind.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79939&start=400#p5275418
Locked