Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

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DTalos
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Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by DTalos » Fri May 08, 2020 1:36 pm

Presumably, most wine sold in the eastern United States originates from the west coast and has to travel long distances. In the summer, when temperatures are high, does it travel by refrigerated trucks from winery to distributor to retailer? Can wine safely travel for long period of time in temperatures over 80 degrees Fahrenheit?

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stilts1007
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by stilts1007 » Fri May 08, 2020 2:23 pm

Can't speak as much to wine but with beer, trucks are not refrigerated, and distributor warehouses are mostly not refrigerated. I would guess wine would be similar.
Traveling for a matter of a few hours from winery to distributor, or from distributor to retailer, would likely not be hugely detrimental. I would be more concerned about people who purchase wine that is shipped to them via fedex or other package carriers, especially over a weekend, where a package might sit in a hot truck for days at a time. I know some meaderies will not ship if the temperature is above a certain level, or will only offer expedited shipping. Same goes with very cold weather, where bottles freezing could be an issue if they are left in cold weather for a long time.

oxothuk
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by oxothuk » Fri May 08, 2020 2:23 pm

We belong to several California wine clubs, and our shipments always come standard UPS (signature required for delivery). No climate control on the trucks.

With one exception, the wineries only schedule shipments from October through April to avoid the summer heat. The one exception is a sparkling wine club.

beefeater
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by beefeater » Fri May 08, 2020 2:27 pm

I buy most of my wine direct from the winery and have it shipped. Most credible wineries will not ship in weather that is too hot or too cold.

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DTalos
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by DTalos » Fri May 08, 2020 2:32 pm

oxothuk wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 2:23 pm
We belong to several California wine clubs, and our shipments always come standard UPS (signature required for delivery). No climate control on the trucks.

With one exception, the wineries only schedule shipments from October through April to avoid the summer heat. The one exception is a sparkling wine club.


How is UPS signature required for delivery done in the COVID-19 era?

orlandoguy
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by orlandoguy » Fri May 08, 2020 2:38 pm

Not sure about UPS, but I've had a couple of FedEx delivery guys that I've seen at our door recently tell me that they're not requiring signatures right now. We've also had several boxes of wine simply left at the door. YMMV.

For OP, you can also, during the generally acceptable shipping season, "upgrade" your wine shipments to 2-day air delivery which can help avoid some excessive temperatures (or at least minimize the time exposed to them).

Orlandoguy

Topic Author
DTalos
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by DTalos » Fri May 08, 2020 5:53 pm

stilts1007 wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 2:23 pm
Can't speak as much to wine but with beer, trucks are not refrigerated, and distributor warehouses are mostly not refrigerated. I would guess wine would be similar.
Traveling for a matter of a few hours from winery to distributor, or from distributor to retailer, would likely not be hugely detrimental. I would be more concerned about people who purchase wine that is shipped to them via fedex or other package carriers, especially over a weekend, where a package might sit in a hot truck for days at a time. I know some meaderies will not ship if the temperature is above a certain level, or will only offer expedited shipping. Same goes with very cold weather, where bottles freezing could be an issue if they are left in cold weather for a long time.

Do you think that most California wine purchased at a retailer in Florida in August would be spoiled?

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alpenglow
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by alpenglow » Fri May 08, 2020 6:16 pm

DTalos wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 2:32 pm
oxothuk wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 2:23 pm
We belong to several California wine clubs, and our shipments always come standard UPS (signature required for delivery). No climate control on the trucks.

With one exception, the wineries only schedule shipments from October through April to avoid the summer heat. The one exception is a sparkling wine club.


How is UPS signature required for delivery done in the COVID-19 era?
My UPS guy just wants to see that I'm over 21 (which is obvious), asks my name, and notes that I "signed" for the package. No contact needed.

As for shipping the wine itself, everyone I've bought from only ships during cooler weather.

NOLA
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by NOLA » Fri May 08, 2020 6:32 pm

I order from Vivino a few times a year. I live in the south and I have never had any issues.

VinoVita
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by VinoVita » Fri May 08, 2020 7:12 pm

For years I’ve been ordering red wine through the Vivino app. At check out they offer delivery with an ice pack for an additional $6...money well spent during warmer weather. Also, lately vendors have been using styrofoam cases for shipping the wine. The last thing you want is to have a great Cab “cooked” due to extreme heat. Saluté🍷

ImUrHuckleberry
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by ImUrHuckleberry » Sat May 09, 2020 11:02 pm

I'm on the east coast and usually buy from a place in CA that will keep the bottles in storage for six months free of charge. Then I take delivery typically in March and November.

I buy direct from one winery in CA which ships via temp controlled vehicle to within 150 miles of my house, then UPS for the final leg. These shipments are typically in April and October.

I buy from one other place with free 2 day shipping which often arrives next day in practice. I'll buy from them Oct through April, and just make sure to check the weather for a bad freeze or hot snap before placing an order. This place ships from within about 200 miles from my house so it's easy to place orders with the weather in mind.

I took some recent deliveries where the driver was happy to leave the package without a signature after I waved from the doorway.

atikovi
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by atikovi » Sun May 10, 2020 7:22 am

Many products are deliberately heated, like milk for pasteurization. Why do you think much less heat during shipping would cause a problem?

lazydavid
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by lazydavid » Sun May 10, 2020 7:31 am

atikovi wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:22 am
Many products are deliberately heated, like milk for pasteurization. Why do you think much less heat during shipping would cause a problem?
Because wine, when heated, becomes vinegar. I've experienced it myself on an entire case of an expensive (for me) Cabernet that had to be dumped down the drain, due to a delay in shipping where it undoubtedly sat in a hot warehouse over the weekend. The winery graciously replaced it, and the second shipment was glorious.

atikovi
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by atikovi » Sun May 10, 2020 8:03 am

lazydavid wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:31 am
atikovi wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:22 am
Many products are deliberately heated, like milk for pasteurization. Why do you think much less heat during shipping would cause a problem?
Because wine, when heated, becomes vinegar. I've experienced it myself on an entire case of an expensive (for me) Cabernet that had to be dumped down the drain, due to a delay in shipping where it undoubtedly sat in a hot warehouse over the weekend.
You couldn't have used it for cooking instead of dumping it? Isn't that what balsamic vinegar is made of?

ImUrHuckleberry
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by ImUrHuckleberry » Sun May 10, 2020 8:13 am

atikovi wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:22 am
Many products are deliberately heated, like milk for pasteurization. Why do you think much less heat during shipping would cause a problem?
"Cooked" wine becomes a lifeless caricature of itself. If I can help it I do not want any bottles to get over 60 degrees during shipping, although it's really anything over 70 that I really worry about. The best bet is to do the shipping when ambient temps are between 30 and 50.

lazydavid
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by lazydavid » Sun May 10, 2020 9:50 am

atikovi wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 8:03 am
lazydavid wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:31 am
atikovi wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:22 am
Many products are deliberately heated, like milk for pasteurization. Why do you think much less heat during shipping would cause a problem?
Because wine, when heated, becomes vinegar. I've experienced it myself on an entire case of an expensive (for me) Cabernet that had to be dumped down the drain, due to a delay in shipping where it undoubtedly sat in a hot warehouse over the weekend.
You couldn't have used it for cooking instead of dumping it? Isn't that what balsamic vinegar is made of?
The cardinal rule of cooking with wine is "if you wouldn't drink it, don't cook with it". And while I do make exceptions to this--for example I can't stand sweet wines, but love seafood cooked in a sauce made with a quality sweet-ish white--the rule serves me very well. And in that frame of mind, this wine was utterly undrinkable--horribly bitter, with big black flakes in it.

WolfgangPauli
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by WolfgangPauli » Sun May 10, 2020 10:17 am

DTalos wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 2:32 pm
oxothuk wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 2:23 pm
We belong to several California wine clubs, and our shipments always come standard UPS (signature required for delivery). No climate control on the trucks.

With one exception, the wineries only schedule shipments from October through April to avoid the summer heat. The one exception is a sparkling wine club.


How is UPS signature required for delivery done in the COVID-19 era?
Not sure how they are doing it but I have 800 delivery trucks and we either forgo the signature and the driver annotates that or, if we see the person, with appropriate distance, we ask if it is OK for us to sign for them and then annotate we were given permission.
Twitter: @JAXbogleheads | EM: JAXbogleheads@gmail.com

SixAlpha
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by SixAlpha » Sun May 10, 2020 11:59 am

DTalos wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 1:36 pm
Presumably, most wine sold in the eastern United States originates from the west coast and has to travel long distances. In the summer, when temperatures are high, does it travel by refrigerated trucks from winery to distributor to retailer? Can wine safely travel for long period of time in temperatures over 80 degrees Fahrenheit?
I own a wine store. AFAIK, most of my distributors contract with climate controlled trucks to bring their wine over from the west coast. It's hit or miss as to whether the delivery truck to my shop is air conditioned or not. That being said, wine's surprisingly hearty. Generally you're not going to "cook" a bottle unless the juice gets warm enough to expand and leak out around the edges of the cork. It takes a fair amount of time for the liquid to get that warm. In 15 years, the only times I've ever cooked a bottle was in the trunk of my car or in the back of a UPS truck.
DTalos wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 1:36 pm
How is UPS signature required for delivery done in the COVID-19 era?
Published policy says they're supposed to leave a tag on your door, step away from the porch, and wait for you to come out and sign the tag. Once you sign it and go back into the house they'll retrieve the tag and leave your package.

Edit: Many wineries use large fulfillment companies to handle customer orders. Many of these companies have warehouses in the midwest, so they can use a refrigerated truck to get the wine from the west coast, and UPS/FedEx will pick it up from the midwestern warehouse.

02nz
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by 02nz » Sun May 10, 2020 12:03 pm

lazydavid wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:31 am
atikovi wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:22 am
Many products are deliberately heated, like milk for pasteurization. Why do you think much less heat during shipping would cause a problem?
Because wine, when heated, becomes vinegar. I've experienced it myself on an entire case of an expensive (for me) Cabernet that had to be dumped down the drain, due to a delay in shipping where it undoubtedly sat in a hot warehouse over the weekend. The winery graciously replaced it, and the second shipment was glorious.
I drink much more white than red wine. I don't think the wine becomes vinegary when exposed to heat, it's just that (at least with whites) they lose much of their floral character, so that a wine I know to be wonderful will taste like $5 plonk.

02nz
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by 02nz » Sun May 10, 2020 12:07 pm

atikovi wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 8:03 am
lazydavid wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:31 am
atikovi wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:22 am
Many products are deliberately heated, like milk for pasteurization. Why do you think much less heat during shipping would cause a problem?
Because wine, when heated, becomes vinegar. I've experienced it myself on an entire case of an expensive (for me) Cabernet that had to be dumped down the drain, due to a delay in shipping where it undoubtedly sat in a hot warehouse over the weekend.
You couldn't have used it for cooking instead of dumping it? Isn't that what balsamic vinegar is made of?
That's not how it works. Wine is fermented grape juice. The bacteria that caused that fermentation are killed before the wine is bottled (otherwise fermentation would continue and bottles would explode from the pressure). Wine has to undergo an additional fermentation to become vinegar. That can happen when bacteria are re-introduced. But you cannot (at least not reliably) make usable vinegar out of wine simply by exposing to heat.

ImUrHuckleberry
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by ImUrHuckleberry » Mon May 11, 2020 7:55 am

02nz wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 12:07 pm
atikovi wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 8:03 am
lazydavid wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:31 am
atikovi wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:22 am
Many products are deliberately heated, like milk for pasteurization. Why do you think much less heat during shipping would cause a problem?
Because wine, when heated, becomes vinegar. I've experienced it myself on an entire case of an expensive (for me) Cabernet that had to be dumped down the drain, due to a delay in shipping where it undoubtedly sat in a hot warehouse over the weekend.
You couldn't have used it for cooking instead of dumping it? Isn't that what balsamic vinegar is made of?
That's not how it works. Wine is fermented grape juice. The bacteria that caused that fermentation are killed before the wine is bottled (otherwise fermentation would continue and bottles would explode from the pressure). Wine has to undergo an additional fermentation to become vinegar. That can happen when bacteria are re-introduced. But you cannot (at least not reliably) make usable vinegar out of wine simply by exposing to heat.
The wine will stop fermenting when the yeast runs out of sugar to eat. Some wines are filtered to remove yeast, but many are not. Therefore, many bottles of wine contain viable yeast that is in sort of a dormant stage.

atikovi
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Location: Suburban Washington DC

Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by atikovi » Mon May 11, 2020 12:20 pm

ImUrHuckleberry wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 7:55 am

The wine will stop fermenting when the yeast runs out of sugar to eat. Some wines are filtered to remove yeast, but many are not. Therefore, many bottles of wine contain viable yeast that is in sort of a dormant stage.
That's why wine gets better (supposedly) with age? The little buggers are still working?

wfrobinette
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by wfrobinette » Tue May 12, 2020 2:38 pm

atikovi wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 8:03 am
lazydavid wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:31 am
atikovi wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:22 am
Many products are deliberately heated, like milk for pasteurization. Why do you think much less heat during shipping would cause a problem?
Because wine, when heated, becomes vinegar. I've experienced it myself on an entire case of an expensive (for me) Cabernet that had to be dumped down the drain, due to a delay in shipping where it undoubtedly sat in a hot warehouse over the weekend.
You couldn't have used it for cooking instead of dumping it? Isn't that what balsamic vinegar is made of?
NO.

Balsamic vinegar (Italian: aceto balsamico), occasionally shortened to balsamic, is a very dark, concentrated, and intensely flavoured vinegar originating in Italy, made wholly or partially from grape must. Grape must is freshly crushed grape juice with all the skins, seeds and stems.

BTW,

Real Balsamic vinegar that is properly aged is more expensive by volume than most wines. And chances are if the Balsamic vinegar you've had was purchased at the supermarket or that was on the table for you to pour it isn't aged vinegar.

wfrobinette
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Re: Shipping Wine in Warm Weather

Post by wfrobinette » Tue May 12, 2020 2:44 pm

atikovi wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 12:20 pm
ImUrHuckleberry wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 7:55 am

The wine will stop fermenting when the yeast runs out of sugar to eat. Some wines are filtered to remove yeast, but many are not. Therefore, many bottles of wine contain viable yeast that is in sort of a dormant stage.
That's why wine gets better (supposedly) with age? The little buggers are still working?
Not all wine gets better with age.

Now for a lesson in fermentation. Yeast eats sugar and produces alcohol and CO2 as a byproduct. If the wine was still fermenting(to a large degree) after bottling it would become "carbonated". Think sparkling wines and beer.

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