Hospice care - room and board

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Dottie57
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Hospice care - room and board

Post by Dottie57 » Thu May 07, 2020 8:31 am

My mom has terminal cancer. I live with her to help take care of her and her home. However I think I have come to the limit of caring for her in a safe manner. So now considering moving mom to a physical hospice home very near where my brother and I both live. Medicare will take care of the medical bill. However there is a room and board portion which medicare does not cover. I am wondering if any of the room and board is tax deductible. Any knowledge out there?

TallBoy29er
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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by TallBoy29er » Thu May 07, 2020 8:44 am

No knowledge, just respect for what you have done, and the decisions you have had to make. Cancer has taken too many friends and family.

All the best.

Silk McCue
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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by Silk McCue » Thu May 07, 2020 8:44 am

So sorry for the situation you face. I am glad that you are there to help your mom.

I Googled this question and found the IRS authoritative answer for this which is Yes for the situation you describe.

https://www.irs.gov/faqs/itemized-deduc ... e-expenses
Question - My father is in a nursing home and I pay for the entire cost. Can I deduct these expenses on my tax return?
Answer -Yes, in certain instances nursing home expenses are deductible medical expenses.

If you, your spouse, or your dependent is in a nursing home primarily for medical care, then the entire nursing home cost (including meals and lodging) is deductible as a medical expense.

If that individual is in a home primarily for non-medical reasons, then only the cost of the actual medical care is deductible as a medical expense, not the cost of the meals and lodging.

To determine if your father qualifies as your dependent for this purpose, refer to Whose Medical Expenses Can You Include and Nursing Home in Publication 502, Medical and Dental Expenses.

Deduct medical expenses on Schedule A (Form 1040 or 1040-SR), Itemized Deductions.
The total of all allowable medical expenses must be reduced by 7.5% of your adjusted gross income.
Cheers

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Dottie57
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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by Dottie57 » Thu May 07, 2020 8:53 am

Silk McCue wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 8:44 am
So sorry for the situation you face. I am glad that you are there to help your mom.

I Googled this question and found the IRS authoritative answer for this which is Yes for the situation you describe.

https://www.irs.gov/faqs/itemized-deduc ... e-expenses


Cheers
Thank you for the IRS info.

carolinaman
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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by carolinaman » Thu May 07, 2020 9:18 am

I am sorry to hear of your mother's situation. I hope this move to a hospice facility works well for you.

You may also want to consider if your mother is Medicaid eligible, which means they would cover most expenses.

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lthenderson
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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by lthenderson » Thu May 07, 2020 9:56 am

During the final weeks of my mom's battle with cancer, we did home hospice where the nurses came out and helped to take care of her. They were a godsend. But it was still enough work for us that I have told my spouse should I end up in a similar situation, feel free to put me in a facility for those last weeks. Best wishes in these upcoming days.

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Dottie57
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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by Dottie57 » Thu May 07, 2020 6:30 pm

carolinaman wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 9:18 am
I am sorry to hear of your mother's situation. I hope this move to a hospice facility works well for you.

You may also want to consider if your mother is Medicaid eligible, which means they would cover most expenses.
Mom has enough resources to pay - for which I am grateful. So no medicaid. The place she is going to is a great place - my dad died there and the people were kind and loving.

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Dottie57
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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by Dottie57 » Thu May 07, 2020 6:34 pm

lthenderson wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 9:56 am
During the final weeks of my mom's battle with cancer, we did home hospice where the nurses came out and helped to take care of her. They were a godsend. But it was still enough work for us that I have told my spouse should I end up in a similar situation, feel free to put me in a facility for those last weeks. Best wishes in these upcoming days.
Thank you for the wishes. I wish I could handle her at home but am becoming exhausted. Mom’s mind is really off now (hallucinations and living in different time periods) and not easy to deal with. It will be better to have people who know how to deal with her. I am exceedingly grateful to have a facility so close.

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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by quantAndHold » Thu May 07, 2020 6:49 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 6:30 pm
carolinaman wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 9:18 am
I am sorry to hear of your mother's situation. I hope this move to a hospice facility works well for you.

You may also want to consider if your mother is Medicaid eligible, which means they would cover most expenses.
Mom has enough resources to pay - for which I am grateful. So no medicaid. The place she is going to is a great place - my dad died there and the people were kind and loving.
So sorry for your situation, but glad you’ve found a good placement for her. Yes, skilled nursing care is deductible as a medical expense. We went through that with dad. So glad she has the resources to pay. We saw the difference between Medicaid beds and private pay beds, even within the same facility, and were very glad that dad could pay.

We went through the same thing with both parents, and if I were to do it again, I would do the same again. It was a relief to just be able to be there and hold their hand, without having to try to take care of them too.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.

marielake
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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by marielake » Thu May 07, 2020 6:59 pm

Hospice rules are different than nursing home/skilled nursing facilities. My mother was on Medicare in a hospice facility; my father under hospice care at home. I never saw a bill for either of them. They were totally covered by Medicare.

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Dottie57
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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by Dottie57 » Thu May 07, 2020 7:35 pm

marielake wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 6:59 pm
Hospice rules are different than nursing home/skilled nursing facilities. My mother was on Medicare in a hospice facility; my father under hospice care at home. I never saw a bill for either of them. They were totally covered by Medicare.
The nursing / medical part is covered by Medicare. Room and board is not. This is small facility in a home. There are under 10 in care. Under normal times the upper story is used for family members to stay over. Full kitchen and food usually on the stove for anyone who is hungry.

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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by Fallible » Thu May 07, 2020 8:12 pm

Very sorry to hear of this, but I'm sure it helps a great deal to know she will be in a place you are all familiar with. It appears your main question has been answered, but if you have more that come up along the way, an elder law attorney can be invaluable, though perhaps you already have one.

Wishing you all the best.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself – and you are the easiest person to fool. ~Richard Feynman

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Dottie57
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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by Dottie57 » Thu May 07, 2020 9:37 pm

Fallible wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 8:12 pm
Very sorry to hear of this, but I'm sure it helps a great deal to know she will be in a place you are all familiar with. It appears your main question has been answered, but if you have more that come up along the way, an elder law attorney can be invaluable, though perhaps you already have one.

Wishing you all the best.
Thank you. From a financial standpoint of assets and wills all is taken care of. We have enough to pay for hospice for 2 years - which is overkill. No possibility of Medicaid. So I think we are set. It will just be hard to move through time until an end is reached.

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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by Gnirk » Thu May 07, 2020 9:50 pm

Dottie57:

I'm so sorry to hear you are at this point in caring for your mom. When I had to move my mom into a care home due to her Alzheimer's, her CPA deducted the entire cost (I believe subject to the 7% rule at the time) as Long Term Care expenses. She was there 6 years before she needed Hospice, but she was unable to bathe, feed herself, or clothe herself, manage her medications, etc. It sounds like if your mom is ready for Hospice, then she is also under long-term care and there would be a sizable tax deduction. If she is unable to do at least two of her Activities of Daily Living, then she would be considered to need long term care.
We did not have to differentiate between room, board, care. It was the monthly cost which she paid that was deductible.

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Dottie57
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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by Dottie57 » Fri May 08, 2020 1:15 am

Gnirk wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 9:50 pm
Dottie57:

I'm so sorry to hear you are at this point in caring for your mom. When I had to move my mom into a care home due to her Alzheimer's, her CPA deducted the entire cost (I believe subject to the 7% rule at the time) as Long Term Care expenses. She was there 6 years before she needed Hospice, but she was unable to bathe, feed herself, or clothe herself, manage her medications, etc. It sounds like if your mom is ready for Hospice, then she is also under long-term care and there would be a sizable tax deduction. If she is unable to do at least two of her Activities of Daily Living, then she would be considered to need long term care.
We did not have to differentiate between room, board, care. It was the monthly cost which she paid that was deductible.
Thank you. I am glad to hear we will be able to deduct much of the extra from her IRA to lessen taxes.

I don’t expect her to be at the facility long. The cancer was in her liver in Oct 2019. Life expectancy of 3 months back then. She has been a strong lady. But ability to take care of her is gone - she needs more than Ican do.

She just woke me up for lunch at 1:00a.m. So gave her coke and a few mouthfuls of egg salad. Hopefully she can sleep.
Last edited by Dottie57 on Fri May 08, 2020 1:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

Luckywon
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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by Luckywon » Fri May 08, 2020 1:34 am

Your mother is very fortunate to have you caring for her. Wishing you strength and solace during this difficult time.

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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Fri May 08, 2020 6:41 am

Are you sure you will be able to visit her? Because of the COVID-19 pandemic many states have limited visitors to all types of senior care facilities, even for hospice patients. Just a reminder to make sure you understand what your state restrictions are now, and what might change if anyone in that home is diagnosed with the virus. This is a very difficult time for all of us with loved ones in the places we thought would keep them safe.

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Dottie57
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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by Dottie57 » Fri May 08, 2020 10:42 am

NotWhoYouThink wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 6:41 am
Are you sure you will be able to visit her? Because of the COVID-19 pandemic many states have limited visitors to all types of senior care facilities, even for hospice patients. Just a reminder to make sure you understand what your state restrictions are now, and what might change if anyone in that home is diagnosed with the virus. This is a very difficult time for all of us with loved ones in the places we thought would keep them safe.
I have verified. Only one person from the immediate family can visit. It is a scheduled appointment every day. I have to ring the doorbell to be let in. I receive a mask, wash hands immediately, and then escorted to her room.

This is a very small facility. They just recently started taking new patients.

ETA. Mom is at Hospice now. She is tired from the move. Staff tidied her up and she looks good. She had a strawberry malt and is now snoozing, Grateful, sad and relieved.

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Dottie57
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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by Dottie57 » Sun May 10, 2020 2:40 pm

Last post in thread.

The ordeal for my mom is over.

Thanks to all the kind responses.

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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by HomeStretch » Sun May 10, 2020 2:46 pm

Dottie57, I am very sorry for your loss. I am glad you were able to be with her at hospice.

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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by brandy » Sun May 10, 2020 4:01 pm

Dottie,
My sympathy for you in this time of loss.
((((((gentle hugs))))))

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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by Mactheriverrat » Sun May 10, 2020 4:07 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 2:40 pm
Last post in thread.

The ordeal for my mom is over.

Thanks to all the kind responses.
Sorry to hear this. My Condolence to you and your family. She isn't in any pain anymore.
Everything evolves. | May Every Sunrise Bring You Hope. May Every Sunset Bring you Peace.

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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by LilyFleur » Sun May 10, 2020 4:36 pm

Please accept my sympathies for your loss. Mother's Day is a bittersweet day for many of us. Sending you a hug!

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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by LadyGeek » Sun May 10, 2020 4:38 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 2:40 pm
Last post in thread.

The ordeal for my mom is over.

Thanks to all the kind responses.
So sorry for your loss.

(Let's keep the thread open for others to express their thoughts.)
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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by GerryL » Sun May 10, 2020 4:44 pm

Dottie,
Take comfort in knowing that you took care of your mom -- and that she knew you were there for her.
Now, take care of yourself.

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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by cs412a » Sun May 10, 2020 4:47 pm

Even when we know what's going to happen, it's still hard. So sorry for your loss.

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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by Fallible » Sun May 10, 2020 5:39 pm

So sorry to hear of your mom, but what a blessing you could be there for her to the end.

Take care and thank you for letting your fellow Bogleheads know.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself – and you are the easiest person to fool. ~Richard Feynman

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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by Silk McCue » Sun May 10, 2020 8:45 pm

So very sorry to hear this news. My prayers are with you and your family.

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Dottie57
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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by Dottie57 » Sun May 10, 2020 10:29 pm

Thank you all for your support. Boglehead members are truly a one of a kind forum.

It is bed time and I swear I hear her rustle around in the bedroom next to mine. Funny how your mind plays tricks.

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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by blackwhisker » Mon May 11, 2020 12:04 am

So sorry for your loss Dottie. Take good care of yourself.

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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by BL » Mon May 11, 2020 2:23 pm

Sorry for your loss, Dottie. I know it is a difficult time.

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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by abuss368 » Mon May 11, 2020 6:22 pm

God bless you and your family during this time.
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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by Gnirk » Mon May 11, 2020 7:08 pm

Oh, Dottie. I am so sorry. It's heartbreaking to lose our moms, no matter the circumstances. (((hugs)))

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Re: Hospice care - room and board

Post by fsrph » Mon May 11, 2020 7:43 pm

Dottie, so sorry to hear about your Mom. Attending to your mothers needs in the last months of her life was a wonderful thing to do. May God's blessings be with you.

Francis
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