Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

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Jng2020
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by Jng2020 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:26 pm

What about American cars ford gm or Chevy regarding quality compared to kia vs Toyota

maxq
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by maxq » Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:34 pm

I used to be a huge fan of Toyota longevity and reliability. I have a 2001 RAV4 that's closing in on 180,000 miles and I sold a 2006 4Runner a couple of years ago after 140,000 trouble-free miles. I replaced it with a 2018 Highlander. Last year my Highlander sat at the dealer's lot for over a month when the battery crapped out (covered under warranty since they said it was defective) and they 'discovered' there was a nation-wide shortage of Toyota batteries -- something to do with uniqueness of the Toyota engine start/stop system. They paid for a rental from their Enterprise site for the entire time, but I had to go down each week to renew it. My Highlander lived with about a dozen others with the same problem in a vacant warehouse. Fast forward to Feb 2020 when my Highlander engine cut out while driving in the 8th lane to the left on I-10 in rush hour--not a real comfortable feeling coasting to a stop with traffic whizzing by on both sides. Back to the dealer. This time its a low pressure fuel pump problem that afflicts about 1.5million Toyotas (number may include Lexus'). I got a recall notice a couple of weeks later. No fix figured out yet, let alone scheduled, so its back in the warehouse. This time it's had about 10 Toyotas with the same problem to keep it company for 2+months. At least it will be a low-mileage car. :-) Oh, I forgot they also had to replace a broken front axle under warranty, but that only took a few days.

Great communication from the dealer, volunteered each time that they were warranty issues, and no push-back when I asked for a Land Cruiser for the rental this time. Every model has lemons now and then and my car is just a single data point, but I'm afraid Toyota has gone the way of other brands and cheapened the materials or isn't keeping an eye on their suppliers. Assuming they get the recall issue fixed, I plan to keep it a couple of years, then buy a Telluride -- it looks a lot nicer to my eye, has modern connectivity, and has a more comfortable ride. Toyotas will still probably have better resell value though.

Helo80
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by Helo80 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:42 pm

Jng2020 wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:26 pm
What about American cars ford gm or Chevy regarding quality compared to kia vs Toyota
Depends on if you are referring to the truck side or car side of GM/Ford. Truck side for both would be on par with Kia/Toyota. Pickup trucks are too competitive of a market, and there are too many people that actually use their trucks for their intended purposes, but Ford/GM to cheap out on parts.

Afty
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by Afty » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:06 am

Consumer Reports rates Kia “above average” for predicted reliability, below Toyota but above Honda. We have a 2012 Kia Sorento that has been very reliable.

jlawrence01
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by jlawrence01 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:15 am

I have driven a number of rental Kia sedans over the past five years. While they have made major improvements, I do not find them to be on the same level as Hyundai or Toyota.

Having said that, I also do not like the KIA dealerships both in their sales department or their service department. That could be a local thing but I have been less than impressed with the ones that I have had to deal with.

researcher
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by researcher » Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:06 am

Helo80 wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:36 pm
In 2020, automotive printed journalism is more irrelevant than local newspapers.
If I got a free sub to each, I'd probably end up throwing away most issues.... and I like cars.
Based on your past posts, you are clearly a passionate advocate for Toyota/Lexus, so it's not surprising you would dislike these results.
But I'm curious, what specifically about Car & Driver do you find "irrelevant"?
Since you apparently don't read C&D, and would throw away a free subscription, what about their published work do you disagree with?

How is C&D any less relevant than the goofy Youtube personalities you've cited in your posts?
Do you find their commentary more meaningful than the measurable, objective testing of vehicles on metrics that are relevant to buyers? Such as real-world MPG tests, braking/skidpad/acceleration results, real-world cargo capacity, 40K mile long-term tests, head-to-head comparison testing?
Keep in mind, some makers still think that print journalism is relevant and do everything they can to appease C&D and R&T.
Are you suggesting Car & Driver has rigged the rankings because they received some type of favorable treatment from Kia?
What do you base this wild claim on?

And how do you explain the fact that the Toyota product comes out ahead when testing other vehicle categories?
In the Midsize Sedan rankings, the Camry comes out well in front of the Kia/Hyundai vehicles. In the Compact SUV rankings, the Rav4 also beats the Korean twins. Does this mean Car & Driver rigged their analysis in favor of Toyota?

stoptothink
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by stoptothink » Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:14 am

jlawrence01 wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:15 am
Having said that, I also do not like the KIA dealerships both in their sales department or their service department. That could be a local thing but I have been less than impressed with the ones that I have had to deal with.
If you've never owned a Kia, why do you have experience with a Kia service department?

Null42
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by Null42 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:29 am

My 1999 Camry still runs. ;) I should probably get a new one. (I'm told the safety features are a lot better, though I loved the idea of driving the same car throughout my whole career.)

Of course, that was Toyota 20 years ago. It's possible they got greedy and started cutting corners on quality. What do people think is the new Toyota?

Helo80
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by Helo80 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:42 am

researcher wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:06 am
Based on your past posts, you are clearly a passionate advocate for Toyota/Lexus, so it's not surprising you would dislike these results.
"Dislike" is the wrong word. "Irrelevant" is the correct word. Yes, knowing my target demographic here, BH, I think that most new vehicle buyers are looking for a reliable, well-built, and minimal maintenance vehicle. Another phrase I've used is that BHs treat automotive expenses like writing checks to Satan.
researcher wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:06 am
But I'm curious, what specifically about Car & Driver do you find "irrelevant"?
Since you apparently don't read C&D, and would throw away a free subscription, what about their published work do you disagree with?
I don't think that C&D adds much value to anything in the automotive world beyond a few head2head match-ups.

It's like newspaper endorsement for POTUS. Maybe in 1960, they were a huge deal, but is a newspaper endorsement in 2020 going to change your mind?
researcher wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:06 am
How is C&D any less relevant than the goofy Youtube personalities you've cited in your posts?
The goofy YT personalities I cite are real-world people that do more independent analysis of cars than the professional publications.

Most new car buyers have a smart phone.
Most new car buyers have the Youtube app.
Most new car buyers are not reading printed publications for car reviews.

With a YT video, I can see the car up-close, see the dashboard in action, see the infotainment center... and learn more about the ins and outs of the car.
researcher wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:06 am
Do you find their commentary more meaningful than the measurable, objective testing of vehicles on metrics that are relevant to buyers? Such as real-world MPG tests, braking/skidpad/acceleration results, real-world cargo capacity, 40K mile long-term tests, head-to-head comparison testing?
To be blunt, I don't think that's relevant information for most new car buyers. I doubt most new car buyers could answer those questions if they were unknowingly entered into a contest that would have given them their new car for free.
researcher wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:06 am
Are you suggesting Car & Driver has rigged the rankings because they received some type of favorable treatment from Kia?
What do you base this wild claim on?
In order to keep the press fleet coming and the factories happy, they purposely don't critique the cars too heavily.

If C&D really dogged a maker or model... is the PR department going to send C&D new models down the road? But then again, C&D readership is in decline so most would never know anyways

Unfortunately, the reviews from the printed publications matter to boomer C-suite staff in Detroit and elsewhere.
researcher wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:06 am
And how do you explain the fact that the Toyota product comes out ahead when testing other vehicle categories?
In the Midsize Sedan rankings, the Camry comes out well in front of the Kia/Hyundai vehicles. In the Compact SUV rankings, the Rav4 also beats the Korean twins. Does this mean Car & Driver rigged their analysis in favor of Toyota?
Again, I do not personally care what C&D writes, nor do I think the vast majority of automotive buyers.

Print journalism is dead.

TBH with you, I did enjoy this article:
The 2020 C8 Corvette Did a 7:29.9 Lap Around the Nürburgring
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a ... -lap-time/

Though, I'll never race Nürburgring in my lifetime... or probably race at all in Germany.... and probably only use about 20% of what a C8 is capable of if I ever do own one.... so, it's interesting, but a bit like, "What's the point?"
Last edited by Helo80 on Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

Helo80
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by Helo80 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:45 am

Null42 wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:29 am
My 1999 Camry still runs. ;) I should probably get a new one. (I'm told the safety features are a lot better, though I loved the idea of driving the same car throughout my whole career.)

Of course, that was Toyota 20 years ago. It's possible they got greedy and started cutting corners on quality. What do people think is the new Toyota?

Toyota is still the same Toyota that you knew. I'd upgrade for the safety features alone. Life is precious.

jlawrence01
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by jlawrence01 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:53 am

stoptothink wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:14 am
jlawrence01 wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:15 am
Having said that, I also do not like the KIA dealerships both in their sales department or their service department. That could be a local thing but I have been less than impressed with the ones that I have had to deal with.
If you've never owned a Kia, why do you have experience with a Kia service department?

I am a retired fleet manager.

So much for the "gotcha."

stoptothink
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by stoptothink » Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:54 am

jlawrence01 wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:53 am
stoptothink wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:14 am
jlawrence01 wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:15 am
Having said that, I also do not like the KIA dealerships both in their sales department or their service department. That could be a local thing but I have been less than impressed with the ones that I have had to deal with.
If you've never owned a Kia, why do you have experience with a Kia service department?

I am a retired fleet manager.

So much for the "gotcha."
Gotcha :confused It was a very obvious question.

UALflyer
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by UALflyer » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:04 am

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:15 pm
I would only give Toyota a B+ on quality in the 1980s based on my ownership of a 1988 Cressida. Toyota really hit their stride in the 1990s.
In the late '90's - early 00's, Toyota's engine sludge problems caused plenty of incredibly expensive breakdowns: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/car ... /index.htm

researcher
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by researcher » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:06 am

Helo80 wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:42 am
Unfortunately, the reviews from the printed publications matter to boomer C-suite staff in Detroit and elsewhere. Print journalism is dead.
Most new car buyers have a smart phone. Most new car buyers have the Youtube app.
Most new car buyers are not reading printed publications for car reviews.
With a YT video, I can see the car up-close, see the dashboard in action, see the infotainment center... and learn more about the ins and outs of the car.
You seem to be very hung up on the print side of the business.
I assume you know they have a website, a Youtube channel, a Facebook page, ect.
You don't have to get a printed copy of the magazine. You can access all of the content online and watch videos with your smartphone or Youtube app...just like when you binge on Doug or Scotty.
The goofy YT personalities I cite are real-world people that do more independent analysis of cars than the professional publications.
To be blunt, I don't think that's relevant information for most new car buyers. I doubt most new car buyers could answer those questions if they were unknowingly entered into a contest that would have given them their new car for free.
So Doug's 'quirks and features' videos are more relevant to car buyers than information on...real-world fuel economy, real-world cargo capacity, head-to-head comparisons, evaluating a vehicle over the course of 40,000 miles (instead of 40), ect?
Don't get me wrong, I like Doug. But I certainly wouldn't rely on his videos when choosing a car. Knowing the actual MPG of a car or how it performs over 40K miles, is more useful and relevant than a handful of quirks/features.

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ThunderTurtle
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by ThunderTurtle » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:18 am

As former Toyota owners (happy ones), we chose the Telluride and have no regrets so far. Consumer Reports expects above average reliability (amazing for first model year) and I believe ranks them #9 of 30 on that point. Kias have a 100K mile, 10 year powertrain warranty. We expect to keep for 10 years like you. I don't think you can go wrong with a Telluride or Highlander. Just get the fluids changed on schedule and 10 years should be easy. I'd honestly be more worried about a Honda than a Korean car these days.
eye.surgeon wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:08 pm
Perhaps more of a differentiator are Kia dealerships who traditionally have catered to people with bad credit and other financial bottom feeders. Even though that is changing, prepare to be treated as such at a Kia dealership on the showroom floor and in service departments if that matters to you.
We visited two Kia dealerships. The first was lies, gimmicks, insults, incompetence, etc. The second was ace, very respectful and straightforward. It was odd because both were of the same owner. It was a newer dealership in a nicer area so maybe that's worth considering. For what it's worth, Kia's not the only one capable of a bad experience. The sales experience at most dealerships is mediocre at best. Our Mazda/Hyundai experience was the worst. Toyota was "okay" (nowhere near as good as the second Kia).

Our Toyota service department experience was always amazing so I'm hoping not to be disappointed on that point. I think Kia and Hyundai are going to [have to] learn how to deal with a new kind of customer (those going for Telluride, Stinger GT, Palisade, the Genesis line, etc.). They're selling some very nice $40,000 - $50,000 cars and are luring buyers away from "higher" brands.

Definitely get an out the door price with breakdown by email or text before visiting any dealer for a test drive. That saves a lot of time and frustration.

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ThunderTurtle
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by ThunderTurtle » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:43 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:09 pm
Housedoc wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:47 pm
Have you ever seen a KIA being driven in the desert or forest by terror groups?? Seriously all they drive are Toyotas. I have owned a few Toyotas, very reliable. A Tacoma had 180K on it and I sold it in 2 days when I was ready to upgrade.
What an odd statement. The reason Kia's aren't seen regularly driven by terror groups in deserts and forests (is this something you see regularly?) likely has little to nothing to do with reliability on a city street, but a heck of a lot to do with Hyundai's and Kia's not being developed for that purpose and not being available.
But the Telluride brochure shows it blazing through sand. Marketing is funny.

Now I wish I had wrecked my Corolla trying to jump dunes instead colliding with a foreign object on the interstate. I could've told the insurance adjuster, "But it's a Toyota! Terorrists use them!"

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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by NHRATA01 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:53 pm

I'll take Car and Driver over these youtube flash in the pans (don't even get me started on Scotty).

For years everyone insisted BMW was in their pocket because of their love for the 3 series and were a given to win any comparo. Then they moved away from driver-focused cars to fleets of CUVs for all, and C/D castigated them, as they did with the past gen 3/4 for losing it's sports sedan roots.

They ripped Cadillac for years (John Phillips' hilarious review of the '03 Escalade - google it - deserved a Pulitzer), then loved them with the past few CTS's then shredded the CTS's successor the new CT5.

They've lauded the Civic for years but critiqued the car 2 generations ago for a warmed over and cheapened redesign.

Mazda became a favorite in the past 10 years.

They have only recently taken a liking to Kia/Hyundai products, reflective of the efforts the corporation has put into increasing its standing.

Most people who complain about C/D or MT are those who get offended when their brand of choice gets a poor review.

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ThunderTurtle
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by ThunderTurtle » Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:58 pm

NHRATA01 wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:53 pm
Mazda became a favorite in the past 10 years.

They have only recently taken a liking to Kia/Hyundai products, reflective of the efforts the corporation has put into increasing its standing.

Most people who complain about C/D or MT are those who get offended when their brand of choice gets a poor review.
CD really does seem to have taken a liking to Kia. I saw one track comparison in which they ranked the Stinger GT over a BMW costing quite a bit more. Can you imagine the grins at Kia HQ when they saw that?

I check CD/MT first for "fun" then see if what I like has a good score on Consumer Reports as well. They consider things actual buyers care about that CD/MT don't (like reliability). Every publication likes the Telluride so it's a pretty easy choice when CD, CR and your test drive are all saying the same thing.

Housedoc
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by Housedoc » Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:08 pm

When everyone compares"whatever" to a Toyota you should just go Toyota. Glad my terrorist daily driver got y'all going. Good to get your blood flow going while seated.

NHRATA01
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by NHRATA01 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:13 pm

ThunderTurtle wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:58 pm
NHRATA01 wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:53 pm
Mazda became a favorite in the past 10 years.

They have only recently taken a liking to Kia/Hyundai products, reflective of the efforts the corporation has put into increasing its standing.

Most people who complain about C/D or MT are those who get offended when their brand of choice gets a poor review.
CD really does seem to have taken a liking to Kia. I saw one track comparison in which they ranked the Stinger GT over a BMW costing quite a bit more. Can you imagine the grins at Kia HQ when they saw that?
Off topic but further adding to that amusement - If you're not aware the gentleman (Albert Biermann) who was basically chief engineer for the Stinger was formerly the head of BMW's M division. So I'm sure he had a pretty big smile with that result. :D

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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by hicabob » Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:18 pm

I have a relative that works for an audio company which integrates their products with various car manufacturers vehicles. A few years ago he said getting the equipment certified by Toyota was hugely more rigorous than the same certification by Chrysler. He claimed Toyota was the most persnickety company he had dealt with. Testing involved resistance to voltage spikes, vibration , durability, etc. His favorite project was a Harley integration since they gave him one to ride for a few months :happy

UpperNwGuy
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by UpperNwGuy » Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:33 pm

The problem I have with Motor Trend and Car and Driver is that their reviewers clearly prefer cars with powerful engines over what they consider to be "underpowered" ones. Unless you're an aggressive driver, those "underpowered" engines are more than adequate. I wish they would spend more time assessing reliability.

palanzo
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by palanzo » Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:50 pm

maxq wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:34 pm
I used to be a huge fan of Toyota longevity and reliability. I have a 2001 RAV4 that's closing in on 180,000 miles and I sold a 2006 4Runner a couple of years ago after 140,000 trouble-free miles. I replaced it with a 2018 Highlander. Last year my Highlander sat at the dealer's lot for over a month when the battery crapped out (covered under warranty since they said it was defective) and they 'discovered' there was a nation-wide shortage of Toyota batteries -- something to do with uniqueness of the Toyota engine start/stop system. They paid for a rental from their Enterprise site for the entire time, but I had to go down each week to renew it. My Highlander lived with about a dozen others with the same problem in a vacant warehouse. Fast forward to Feb 2020 when my Highlander engine cut out while driving in the 8th lane to the left on I-10 in rush hour--not a real comfortable feeling coasting to a stop with traffic whizzing by on both sides. Back to the dealer. This time its a low pressure fuel pump problem that afflicts about 1.5million Toyotas (number may include Lexus'). I got a recall notice a couple of weeks later. No fix figured out yet, let alone scheduled, so its back in the warehouse. This time it's had about 10 Toyotas with the same problem to keep it company for 2+months. At least it will be a low-mileage car. :-) Oh, I forgot they also had to replace a broken front axle under warranty, but that only took a few days.

Great communication from the dealer, volunteered each time that they were warranty issues, and no push-back when I asked for a Land Cruiser for the rental this time. Every model has lemons now and then and my car is just a single data point, but I'm afraid Toyota has gone the way of other brands and cheapened the materials or isn't keeping an eye on their suppliers. Assuming they get the recall issue fixed, I plan to keep it a couple of years, then buy a Telluride -- it looks a lot nicer to my eye, has modern connectivity, and has a more comfortable ride. Toyotas will still probably have better resell value though.
A broken axle in a new car?

JackoC
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by JackoC » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:18 pm

squirm wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:01 pm
JackoC wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:31 pm
squirm wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:11 pm
The resale value tells you everything. Just go with that, forget all the noise.
Resale value tells you what used car customers tend to think. As shown on this thread lot of people in the US market still *think* Toyota is way ahead of Kia on reliability/durability. But that's pretty questionable. Might still be ahead but probably not by much if so.
I think the resale value is one of the best indicators. People love to give anecdotes, I get that. But reading through a hundred messages isn't going to prove anything for the OP. That's why I said just go with resale value and ignore everything else.

The secondary car market is huge so price discovery is real.
It's huge, but it's people dealing with uncertainty, so they tend to 'anchor' themselves to conventional wisdom, like 'Toyota is much more reliable', which used to be true v nominal US brands (not as clear it ever was v other nominally Japanese brands), and the Korean brands used to be pretty unreliable. Now there's no objective evidence Toyota's are generally more reliable than various other Asian-domiciled company's brands, but you can see on any of these threads that a good % of people cling to the idea of Toyota as something special.

Again I'm not saying to ignore the resale market if you're not planning to hold a car for long. But it's highly questionable IMO to posit that the used car market efficiently reflects actual expected quality differences from now. There's no way to systematically arbitrage out inefficiencies in used car pricing, so no reason to think they don't exist when you can see objective evidence of them. And the objective evidence, albeit incomplete, says there's no particular reason to value used Toyota's much differently than used Kia's...except 'lots of people think so'. :happy So if you're going to soon sell to 'lots of people' you should factor in their bias about Toyota. If you're going to keep the car a long time I see no reason now to assume a Toyota would be much more reliable or durable than a Kia. Most likely similar, as in the respective Consumer Reports results.

ImUrHuckleberry
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by ImUrHuckleberry » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:24 pm

We purchased two Kia vehicles about 12 years ago. Never again, as we had nothing but problems with both of them. We unloaded both of them early and went back to Honda. Maybe they have improved since then, but I don't think we will ever overcome our negative bias to them due to our previous experiences.

Normchad
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by Normchad » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:40 pm

I’m a long time subscriber to car and driver and motortrend. They are good magazines. But they will never come out and say that a car is a piece of garbage.

Think of the crummiest cars ever made, the look up the reviews from the past and see what they say.

And yeah, the whole BMW thing. It’s well established that BMWs have lousy reliability. You will never see that mentioned in those magazines.

Obviously, if they did that, they’d lose advertising money, which wouldn’t be good.

That is why I place a lot of trust in consumer reports. They’re not always right, but they have no reason to be biased.

Sammie6758
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by Sammie6758 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:55 am

I had a 2014 optima that blew the engine at 128,000 miles a couple weeks ago and left me on the side of the highway. Apparently it was a known thing with those engines. The paint was problematic too. There were several spots on the hood/roof, some as large as your fist, where the paint peeled away leaving the primer exposed. I know it’s a sample size of 1, and all manufactures have lemons, etc. but it’s the last Kia I’ll personally own.

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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by smitcat » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:44 am

Sammie6758 wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:55 am
I had a 2014 optima that blew the engine at 128,000 miles a couple weeks ago and left me on the side of the highway. Apparently it was a known thing with those engines. The paint was problematic too. There were several spots on the hood/roof, some as large as your fist, where the paint peeled away leaving the primer exposed. I know it’s a sample size of 1, and all manufactures have lemons, etc. but it’s the last Kia I’ll personally own.
"but it’s the last Kia I’ll personally own."
What do you own now?

Superleaf444
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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by Superleaf444 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:53 am

Jng2020 wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:26 pm
What about American cars ford gm or Chevy regarding quality compared to kia vs Toyota
Toyotas for the most part are constantly better quality/longer term. Though American car makers have made leaps and bounds. It also sorta depends what you want. Re: Suburban vs a Camry, etc. Specific models for specific purposes can be better from certain brands.


Also, for everyone on here, Consumer Reporters does an excellent job of reviewing cars. And if you are in the market it is worth every penny of the subscriptions.

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Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by LawEgr1 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:12 am

JackoC wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:18 pm
squirm wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:01 pm
JackoC wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:31 pm
squirm wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:11 pm
The resale value tells you everything. Just go with that, forget all the noise.
Resale value tells you what used car customers tend to think. As shown on this thread lot of people in the US market still *think* Toyota is way ahead of Kia on reliability/durability. But that's pretty questionable. Might still be ahead but probably not by much if so.
I think the resale value is one of the best indicators. People love to give anecdotes, I get that. But reading through a hundred messages isn't going to prove anything for the OP. That's why I said just go with resale value and ignore everything else.

The secondary car market is huge so price discovery is real.
It's huge, but it's people dealing with uncertainty, so they tend to 'anchor' themselves to conventional wisdom, like 'Toyota is much more reliable', which used to be true v nominal US brands (not as clear it ever was v other nominally Japanese brands), and the Korean brands used to be pretty unreliable. Now there's no objective evidence Toyota's are generally more reliable than various other Asian-domiciled company's brands, but you can see on any of these threads that a good % of people cling to the idea of Toyota as something special.

Again I'm not saying to ignore the resale market if you're not planning to hold a car for long. But it's highly questionable IMO to posit that the used car market efficiently reflects actual expected quality differences from now. There's no way to systematically arbitrage out inefficiencies in used car pricing, so no reason to think they don't exist when you can see objective evidence of them. And the objective evidence, albeit incomplete, says there's no particular reason to value used Toyota's much differently than used Kia's...except 'lots of people think so'. :happy So if you're going to soon sell to 'lots of people' you should factor in their bias about Toyota. If you're going to keep the car a long time I see no reason now to assume a Toyota would be much more reliable or durable than a Kia. Most likely similar, as in the respective Consumer Reports results.
What a silly thread, I +100000 JackOC. Couldn't agree more.
Sammie6758 wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:55 am
I had a 2014 optima that blew the engine at 128,000 miles a couple weeks ago and left me on the side of the highway. Apparently it was a known thing with those engines. The paint was problematic too. There were several spots on the hood/roof, some as large as your fist, where the paint peeled away leaving the primer exposed. I know it’s a sample size of 1, and all manufactures have lemons, etc. but it’s the last Kia I’ll personally own.
Sorry that happened, but yes, it's a well known issue. Kia does provide lifetime warranty on it, if the cause of failure was for the typical failure mode. A quick google would get you there, although I'm sure you already know that since this was two weeks ago.

We have a 2018 Sonata, and one of the considerations was the engine issue, but I elected to take that gamble and with the recent lawsuits I feel comfortable on getting a new engine when this one (if) goes out. Some people don't have an issue, some people do at 50k+ miles already.

Objectively, the Sonata is a fantastic family sedan for us. Time will tell how it ages, so I won't go out and say it's the best car ever or worst car ever at this point. It did provide tremendous value over the Honda/Toyota. More importantly, we liked the car better than the other sedans. I love cars, but do not fall in the trap of being brand loyal.

Other car is a '14 Ford. That's been fine too, if not very reliable, but hey, it has an internal water pump that costs several thousand to repair if/when it goes out, so it isn't like this is just a Hyundai/Kia thing. Every automaker has it's issues, it's just what risk tolerance does everyone have?

My opinion is brand perception lags brand performance but quite a bit, it takes awhile to change perceptions. That hurts automakers especially hard, because so many people hold on to their vehicles for so long and never have the opportunity or 'take the gamble' to obtain another vehicle outside what they already know.

WildBill
Posts: 617
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:47 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by WildBill » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:47 am

Jim Beaux wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:40 pm
Normchad wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:06 pm
Generally speaking, I don’t think the “Terrorist models” are offered in the US. I imagine a lot of them have Diesel engines, minimal safety features, etc. or they are the same land cruiser we could buy here in the 70s.
That model would be the Toyota Jihadi. Standard equipment includes an M2HB fifty roof mount. :sharebeer
Howdy

Appreciate the tip, but I am waiting for the Tesla model

W B
"Through chances various, through all vicissitudes, we make our way." Virgil, The Aeneid

Sammie6758
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:55 am

Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by Sammie6758 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:57 am

smitcat wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:44 am
Sammie6758 wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:55 am
I had a 2014 optima that blew the engine at 128,000 miles a couple weeks ago and left me on the side of the highway. Apparently it was a known thing with those engines. The paint was problematic too. There were several spots on the hood/roof, some as large as your fist, where the paint peeled away leaving the primer exposed. I know it’s a sample size of 1, and all manufactures have lemons, etc. but it’s the last Kia I’ll personally own.
"but it’s the last Kia I’ll personally own."
What do you own now?
I haven’t replaced it yet, like I said this just happened a couple weeks ago. I’m using a Nissan Frontier that I already had to get around for now.

Helo80
Posts: 1527
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:47 pm

Re: Toyota vs. Kia Quality & Longevity

Post by Helo80 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:08 pm

researcher wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:06 am
You seem to be very hung up on the print side of the business.
I assume you know they have a website, a Youtube channel, a Facebook page, ect.
You don't have to get a printed copy of the magazine. You can access all of the content online and watch videos with your smartphone or Youtube app...just like when you binge on Doug or Scotty.
I'm familiar with C&D, but their video reviews are often too short. I don't use FB much, though many car buyers do. Doug is by far my favorite personality as we look at cars in a similar way..... but Scotty is interesting at times... but 95% of his stuff is click-bait. He makes an occasional interesting and valid point on a car, and then mixes it in with why Toyota is superior and the auto industry has been going to garbage since the 1994 Toyota Celica.
researcher wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:06 am
So Doug's 'quirks and features' videos are more relevant to car buyers than information on...real-world fuel economy, real-world cargo capacity, head-to-head comparisons, evaluating a vehicle over the course of 40,000 miles (instead of 40), ect?
Don't get me wrong, I like Doug. But I certainly wouldn't rely on his videos when choosing a car. Knowing the actual MPG of a car or how it performs over 40K miles, is more useful and relevant than a handful of quirks/features.
Real-world fuel economy is usually found on the enthusiast forums that follow each model. In terms of cargo capacity, I guess I'm not so hard-pressed for space that I'd ever be seriously interested in that stat unless I saw a vehicle and felt it were severely undersized for its class.

As another poster mentioned and helped focus my criticisms of C&D... it's that they don't really go negative on any car as to not offend the executive offices of the makers (and indirectly get cut off from the press fleet to review cars).

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