Replacement for 4Runner

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adamthesmythe
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Re: Replacement for 4Runner

Post by adamthesmythe » Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:37 am

fishmonger wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:28 am
Thanks for the replies all. As I stated in my initial post, I do not need to be convinced of the 4Runner's reliability/reputation/resale value (I've owned Toyotas for 20 years). I thought we would walk in, take a test drive, and take it home but as I stated we are having second thoughts. Due to the fact that we own our vehicles for 10+ years, we want to explore a bit.

Thoughts on VW Tiguan? I know Volkswagen's reliability and repair costs are about the polar opposites of Toyota. That being said they are sharp and VW's are always fun to drive and for $10k less I think we may take a look
I have owned both a Rav4 and a Tiguan.

If you are going to start looking at crossovers without true 4WD...that opens up a whole range of options that are cheaper, with modern safety features and electronics, and better to drive than the 4Runner.

researcher
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Re: Replacement for 4Runner

Post by researcher » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:09 am

andypanda wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:36 am
The trim pieces on the bumpers don't simulate skid plates. ALL 4Runners come with skid plates. Who in the world ever confused a bumper on the end of a vehicle for a skid plate underneath?
Yes they do. For the 4Runner "Off-Road" and Rav4 "Adventure", the lower part of the front/rear facias are absolutely painted silver/grey to simulate skid plates.

Out of the 8 4Runner trim levels offered, and 10 Rav4 trim levels offered, why do you think only these 2 come with the silver trim?
Answer...Because the "Off-Road" and "Adventure" models are marketed to people who want the tough/outdoorsy look & persona, but don't actually need or care about real off-road performance.

You are correct that all 4Runners come with skid plates, but they are not visible (except the TRD model), since they are under the vehicle. They do nothing to perpetuate the outdoorsy persona these buyers are desperate for, so Toyota paints on these fake skid plates.

A perfect example of this is the Kia Telluride.
The website explicitly calls out the "Front and Rear Skid Plate, Premium Silver Finish" feature.
They are referring to the silver painted front/rear lower fascias, as there are no real skid plates on the Telluride.

andypanda
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Re: Replacement for 4Runner

Post by andypanda » Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:00 pm

Okay, you win, a little bit of silver on a bumper makes it look like a skid plate. :oops:

Reminds me of the old joke... How many legs does a dog have if you call his tail a leg? Answer: 4.


"You are correct that all 4Runners come with skid plates, but they are not visible (except the TRD model)"

They are all installed in the precise same place and can be seen from the same angle. The only real difference is the color of the TRD front plate and the lettering. The color makes it easier to see, but it's in the same location.

Have a nice day. :beer

T4REngineer
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Re: Replacement for 4Runner

Post by T4REngineer » Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:08 pm

EddyB wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:26 pm
T4REngineer wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:38 pm
Something is off - No head room issues for myself (5'10) or my wife (5'12) and we both drive 5th gen 4runners w/ Sunroofs ....
Does she object to being described as a six footer?
Haha she does not object its simply how she describes her height so I like to play along

T4REngineer
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Re: Replacement for 4Runner

Post by T4REngineer » Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:09 pm

atikovi wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:33 pm
EddyB wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:26 pm
T4REngineer wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:38 pm
Something is off - No head room issues for myself (5'10) or my wife (5'12) and we both drive 5th gen 4runners w/ Sunroofs ....
Does she object to being described as a six footer?
Probably no more than he objects to her describing him as a six incher.
Thats above average and so am I - and that is the last we shall discuss it :D

T4REngineer
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Re: Replacement for 4Runner

Post by T4REngineer » Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:31 pm

researcher wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:09 am
andypanda wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:36 am
The trim pieces on the bumpers don't simulate skid plates. ALL 4Runners come with skid plates. Who in the world ever confused a bumper on the end of a vehicle for a skid plate underneath?
Yes they do. For the 4Runner "Off-Road" and Rav4 "Adventure", the lower part of the front/rear facias are absolutely painted silver/grey to simulate skid plates.

Out of the 8 4Runner trim levels offered, and 10 Rav4 trim levels offered, why do you think only these 2 come with the silver trim?
Answer...Because the "Off-Road" and "Adventure" models are marketed to people who want the tough/outdoorsy look & persona, but don't actually need or care about real off-road performance.

You are correct that all 4Runners come with skid plates, but they are not visible (except the TRD model), since they are under the vehicle. They do nothing to perpetuate the outdoorsy persona these buyers are desperate for, so Toyota paints on these fake skid plates.

A perfect example of this is the Kia Telluride.
The website explicitly calls out the "Front and Rear Skid Plate, Premium Silver Finish" feature.
They are referring to the silver painted front/rear lower fascias, as there are no real skid plates on the Telluride.
Dude, I get we are arguing with pig in the mud but you are bent over these valances (technical term and how Toyota parts lists them)

No one at Toyota is saying it's a skid plate ,how could it simulate a skid plate when skid plates are underneath and these are not. Its not meant to simulate anything it's meant as a more aggressive design and model distinguisher. Every car brand and models have visual external cues as to what trim/options are on the car. I am not sure why these silver (off-road) and black (pro) valances bother you so much when things like this are everywhere. Don't forget about the non functioning hood scope on each of those models, must be simulating ram air :/

At least the off-road trim does include real equipment - Rear Locker, crawl control and KDSS (optional)

They are not painted on, the valance is painted plastic held inplace by clips

BTW you are correct here - Answer...Because the "Off-Road" and "Adventure" models are marketed to people who want the tough/outdoorsy look & persona, but don't actually need or care about real off-road performance.

Most people who purchase these will not come anywhere near the limitations of the vehicle much less take it on a gravel road - and thats ok if they want to have that option and pay for it good for them and great for me so OEMs still offer vehicles that can be used and abused off-road for those who don't mind dents and scratches in a daily driver.

Circling back to the OP - the models we are discussing do not even come with 3rd row seats only the SR5 and Limited do which do not have these valances (unless things have changed the last couple of years).......so none of this is relevant. Sigh

researcher
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Re: Replacement for 4Runner

Post by researcher » Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:37 pm

andypanda wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:00 pm
Okay, you win, a little bit of silver on a bumper makes it look like a skid plate. :oops:
I'm not saying I agree. I think the silver painted bumpers look ridiculous and they certainly don't look like real skid plates to me.
I'm just telling you why manufacturers do this and why naive consumers apparently like it.
It is why Toyota only puts it on their "Off-Road" and "Adventure" models, and why Kia (incorrectly) calls them skid plates.
They are all installed in the precise same place and can be seen from the same angle. The only real difference is the color of the TRD front plate and the lettering. The color makes it easier to see, but it's in the same location.
You are proving my point.
When you look at a non-TRD 4Runner, the front skid plate is a different design that blends into the undercarriage of the vehicle, like the black plastic undercarriage panels on every other SUV. It does not call attention to itself. And on the Limited model, the front bumper completely conceals it.

That is why the TRD Pro model uses bright, squared off aluminum with bright red lettering...so that people notice it and think it looks tough.
And this is why they paint the lower fascias silver on the "Off-Road" model...for naive people who want to look tough, but don't actually go off-road, or want to spend $10K more for the TRD Pro model.

emoore
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Re: Replacement for 4Runner

Post by emoore » Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:47 pm

adamthesmythe wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:37 am
fishmonger wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:28 am
Thanks for the replies all. As I stated in my initial post, I do not need to be convinced of the 4Runner's reliability/reputation/resale value (I've owned Toyotas for 20 years). I thought we would walk in, take a test drive, and take it home but as I stated we are having second thoughts. Due to the fact that we own our vehicles for 10+ years, we want to explore a bit.

Thoughts on VW Tiguan? I know Volkswagen's reliability and repair costs are about the polar opposites of Toyota. That being said they are sharp and VW's are always fun to drive and for $10k less I think we may take a look
I have owned both a Rav4 and a Tiguan.

If you are going to start looking at crossovers without true 4WD...that opens up a whole range of options that are cheaper, with modern safety features and electronics, and better to drive than the 4Runner.
+1. If you are open to crossovers then there are so many better options than a 4Runner. I love my 2000 4Runner but its a second car and I could not see myself getting a new one since I don't off road much anymore.

Living Free
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Re: Replacement for 4Runner

Post by Living Free » Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:49 pm

Check out the toyota sienna. Minivans are pretty incredible nowadays and unless you're doing substantial off roading it should serve all of your needs considerably better than an SUV. Even if you insist on all wheel drive the sienna can be had with that option. Or you could just do the front wheel drive and add snow tires. But most people refuse to buy a minivan because of the perceived image it projects. My wife refused to let me buy her a minivan so now she has a mazda cx5, which is pretty sweet TBH, but not large enough for your needs. So you should also check out the larger mazda crossover SUV, the CX 9: https://www.caranddriver.com/mazda/cx-9-2019

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Ruprecht
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Re: Replacement for 4Runner

Post by Ruprecht » Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:51 pm

TxAg wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:44 am
Subaru Ascent?

https://m.facebook.com/groups/875597246 ... view=group

researcher
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Re: Replacement for 4Runner

Post by researcher » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:07 pm

T4REngineer wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:31 pm
I am not sure why these silver (off-road) and black (pro) valances bother you so much when things like this are everywhere.
They don't bother me at all. Different strokes for different folks. I just posted my thoughts on a general design that has been popularized recently, to which andypanda disagreed...'Butch' styling is all the rage now. Consumers love the SUV faux toughness look...Aggressive front ends, plastic body cladding, fake skid plates, jacked up ride height, ect.
No one at Toyota is saying it's a skid plate ,how could it simulate a skid plate when skid plates are underneath and these are not. Its not meant to simulate anything...
Toyota might not say it is a skid plate, but that is absolutely the look they are going for. They (poorly) simulate a skid plate and are added to give it a more aggressive and tough look.
You and I both agree that it is a very poor attempt, but most consumers don't know what the real thing even looks like.

Go to the Kia Telluride website and you will see. This proves exactly what I'm saying...
They call the silver-painted add-ons "skid plates" in the Specifications section, even though they are not at all real skid plates.
And this is the same exact look Toyota uses on their Rav4 "Adventure" and 4Runner "Off-Road".
Don't forget about the non functioning hood scope on each of those models, must be simulating ram air :/
Yes, that is exactly what it is simulating! That is why Toyota tacks it onto the hood.
It is a cosmetic piece that has been added on to look like the real thing...to make it look more powerful, aggressive, manly, ect.
Consumers are now craving this look, as I noted above. And since the vast majority of consumers only care about the LOOK and not actual function/performance, they find these faux add-ons appealing. It bolsters their image of being tough.

phxjcc
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Re: Replacement for 4Runner

Post by phxjcc » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:31 pm

I would go with a Lexus LX570
2013 with < 75,000 miles will be $40k out the door.
Tow, haul, 4wd, 25 year engineering and infamous Toyota build factory.

Horrible gas mileage, but will run forever.

Toyota LC are more difficult to find.

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StormShadow
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Re: Replacement for 4Runner

Post by StormShadow » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:34 pm

fishmonger wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:19 am
So wife and I are starting the process of replacing her 2009 Toyota Highlander. We test drove a 2020 4Runner, which was our frontrunner based on owning a 2000 4Runner in the past (best car I've ever owned by a wide margin), and our great history with Toyota's - collectively we've owned 5 with my current vehicle being a 2016 Tacoma.
How about a 2009 (last year of fifth edition) 4Runner to beat around for a few years until the sixth edition comes out.

I used to have that model 4Runner (2005) and loved it. Still think it looks a lot better than the current edition.

jrmillions
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Re: Replacement for 4Runner

Post by jrmillions » Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:29 pm

I’m 5’7” and just purchased a 2020 4 Runner. Have no problem with headroom. Did you try different seat positions?

emoore
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Re: Replacement for 4Runner

Post by emoore » Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:50 pm

StormShadow wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:34 pm
fishmonger wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:19 am
So wife and I are starting the process of replacing her 2009 Toyota Highlander. We test drove a 2020 4Runner, which was our frontrunner based on owning a 2000 4Runner in the past (best car I've ever owned by a wide margin), and our great history with Toyota's - collectively we've owned 5 with my current vehicle being a 2016 Tacoma.
How about a 2009 (last year of fifth edition) 4Runner to beat around for a few years until the sixth edition comes out.

I used to have that model 4Runner (2005) and loved it. Still think it looks a lot better than the current edition.
Not sure the 6th gen is ever coming out. People have been waiting for it since 2016. I think they need to make an electric 4Runner. Would be a huge hit.

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fortfun
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Re: Replacement for 4Runner

Post by fortfun » Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:30 pm

Sequoia?

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tooluser
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Re: Replacement for 4Runner

Post by tooluser » Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:40 pm

5280Tim wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:42 am
Did you use the seat height adjustment? One of friends is 6’3” and daily drives a 4Runner with no issues whatsoever. He’s not a lean-way-back driver either.
I am a giant (well above 6'3") and have plenty of room in my 2017 4Runner. I don't think the 2020 is that different. The seat requires a slight tilt back for me, not like a low-roof sedan at all. Something doesn't add up with OP's experience. (For comparison, in the past I owned a Nissan Altima and that was fine in the front seat, but negative head room in back.)

I suggest OP test drive the 4Runner again, and make sure you adjust the seat DOWN as well as back. I have run into this testing cars at the L.A. Auto Show when they don't enable the car's electric systems. The higher trim levels probably have a power passenger seat with identical controls.

Godzilla
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Re: Replacement for 4Runner

Post by Godzilla » Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:45 pm

I have the same problem the OP does. I'm just 6 feet but have a long torso. I have the same headroom issue in the Tacomas as well. I asked the salesman whether there is a way to adjust the seat down more - there is not. He looked at me like I was crazy and I still have a hard time not believing it is just me doing something wrong or being oversensitive to the issue...

But, I may have some helpful information - I do not have the problem if there is no sunroof!! The sunroof forced an adjustment downwards on the ceiling. So, I would check out 4 runners without sunroofs. If that is a problem why not a Sequoia or Tundra. Even with the sunroof I fit well in both.

By the way I have no headroom issue at all in my wife's 2015 RAV-4 with a sunroof so that's an option as well.

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tooluser
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Re: Replacement for 4Runner

Post by tooluser » Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:56 pm

Godzilla wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:45 pm
I have the same problem the OP does. I'm just 6 feet but have a long torso. I have the same headroom issue in the Tacomas as well. I asked the salesman whether there is a way to adjust the seat down more - there is not. He looked at me like I was crazy and I still have a hard time not believing it is just me doing something wrong or being oversensitive to the issue...

But, I may have some helpful information - I do not have the problem if there is no sunroof!! The sunroof forced an adjustment downwards on the ceiling. So, I would check out 4 runners without sunroofs. If that is a problem why not a Sequoia or Tundra. Even with the sunroof I fit well in both.

By the way I have no headroom issue at all in my wife's 2015 RAV-4 with a sunroof so that's an option as well.
I find the Tacomas to have considerably less leg room, several inches. I think at one time they were the same platform as the 4Runners but not since the latest design. My 2017 4Runner doesn't have a sunroof but I would fit okay if it did (I sat in one, but have no need for it).

JOEVANDAL
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Re: Replacement for 4Runner

Post by JOEVANDAL » Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:29 pm

I purchased a 2020 TRD Off Road Premium. I am 6'4" and there is plenty of head room even with a moon roof. My legs are not that long and my torso is longer than average. I haven't driven much since the C-virus, but I love my new rig.

sawdust60
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Re: Replacement for 4Runner

Post by sawdust60 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:57 am

I had heard about the way the sunroof reduces headroom. But with the adjustments available on the power seats, it is not even close to being a problem for us.

I was not aware that a sunroof was available with cloth seating. I have a sunroof because the full-time AWD is only offered on the Limited (where sunroof is not optional).

My choices are becoming fewer, as I do not plan to buy a car with start/stop technology.

You might want to give the 4Runner another look -- and perhaps try a Limited AWD, to see if you notice other differences. Test one with 3rd row seats, as the 2nd row seats are slightly different with the 3rd row option. 3rd row option also results in a higher floor in the cargo area.

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