Issues with face masks?

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unstoppable
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Issues with face masks?

Post by unstoppable » Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:37 am

I went to the grocery store for the first time since requiring face masks here, and to be honest probably the first time ever in general. I had a surgical mask here in plastic bag from a while ago that I was going to use for cleaning.

I noticed after a 30-40 min trip I was quite lightheaded and found it hard to breathe most of the time. I asked some friends and they didn’t have the same issue. Anyone else have a similar experience? I’ve read some are more sensitive to masks than others.

Are there any better kinds for this issue? I may try to make some tomorrow and also give some to my neighbors. I have some bandanas that will work perfect. Has anyone found a good store to buy any types of masks at?

Chuck107
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by Chuck107 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:02 am

Does the mask have a one way vent in it? It's possible it's defective and stays closed all the time. So you are re-breathing your own used air?
Just shooting from the hip on this.

Good luck finding masks. like hens teeth.

EnjoyIt
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by EnjoyIt » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:11 am

unstoppable wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:37 am
I went to the grocery store for the first time since requiring face masks here, and to be honest probably the first time ever in general. I had a surgical mask here in plastic bag from a while ago that I was going to use for cleaning.

I noticed after a 30-40 min trip I was quite lightheaded and found it hard to breathe most of the time. I asked some friends and they didn’t have the same issue. Anyone else have a similar experience? I’ve read some are more sensitive to masks than others.

Are there any better kinds for this issue? I may try to make some tomorrow and also give some to my neighbors. I have some bandanas that will work perfect. Has anyone found a good store to buy any types of masks at?
Yes, wearing a mask should make breathing a bit more difficult. That means it is doing its job. Very difficult breathing may be something else. Try a different mask if possible may yours is dirty and clogged up.
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Mrxyz
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by Mrxyz » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:22 am

And this is NOT a medical advice but please make sure you have not underlying medical issues which are being triggered by the mild obstruction caused by a simple face mask - I am assuming you are NOT wearing N 95 and just using a regular face mask - which is the correct thing to do.

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tetractys
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by tetractys » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:45 am

I’ve been using a reusable cloth mask daily at work and have a couple tips. Cloth masks aren’t as effective as N95; but they’re still helpful in preventing the spread of viruses.

It’s important to keep your mask clean and a fresh mask is most comfortable. Every day as soon as you get home, wash the mask in soapy water, rinse it well, squeeze it out and air dry it.

For a tight seal around the nose use cotton. Unwind a cotton ball, tear it in half, and fold the halves lengthwise into thirds. Compact them so there’s no loose ticklish strands. Place them in the mask just inside the top edge close to the nose. It helps to hold the mask with the cotton pieces in place on the nose first before situating and adjusting the rest of the mask.

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by Mrxyz » Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:14 am

FWIW -
Simple face mask for contact isolation- is appropriate for use in public places
N 95 (is airtight to prevent transmission of 95% airborne particles) for airborne isolation - for healthcare folks when there is 'aerosol generating procedures' like intubation, nebulizer treatment etc.

IOW, there is no need to 'buffer' a simple face mask with anything like cotton to 'make it more efficient'.....buffering will not make it 'like N 50 to 95' nor will it help improve contact isolation.

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/per ... e-masks#s1

livesoft
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by livesoft » Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:27 am

What happens if you wear the same mask for 30-40 minutes around the house? Be sure to walk around the same as you would in a store.

What did this mean "and to be honest probably the first time ever in general. " ? Does that mean you never walk or stand anywhere for 30 to 40 minutes at a time? Or you never have gone to a grocery store? I wonder if the store had used some cleaning solution that still lingered in the air that affected you?
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DWNY
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by DWNY » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:11 am

For those of us that wear glasses, face masks can make your glasses fog as your breath escapes up past your nose. The cotton balls mentioned above do a fine job of sealing around your nose and preventing fogging of glasses.

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by crefwatch » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:24 am

unstoppable, please come back and say more about the mask you have. Is it paper or cloth? What sort of store or facility is it from? How long was it in storage? What was it stored next to? Was it under a sink or in a basement? Was it “used” when you put it away? Could it have been damp from usage?

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by Galaxy8 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:34 am

Chuck107 wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:02 am
Does the mask have a one way vent in it? It's possible it's defective and stays closed all the time. So you are re-breathing your own used air?
Just shooting from the hip on this.

Good luck finding masks. like hens teeth.
The sort of hilarious think is that those one way vents sort of defeat the purpose - to prevent you from infecting others.

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by livesoft » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:37 am

Galaxy8 wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:34 am
The sort of hilarious think is that those one way vents sort of defeat the purpose - to prevent you from infecting others.
For years and years I have had N95 masks with one-way vents because they are made for contractors and others who work in dusty or smoky situations. They are not made to prevent you from infecting others. Not hilarious at all. In fact, it is a serious issue that medical N95 masks are not easily available to anyone who wants to buy them.
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by Galaxy8 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:55 am

livesoft wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:37 am
Galaxy8 wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:34 am
The sort of hilarious think is that those one way vents sort of defeat the purpose - to prevent you from infecting others.
For years and years I have had N95 masks with one-way vents because they are made for contractors and others who work in dusty or smoky situations. They are not made to prevent you from infecting others. Not hilarious at all. In fact, it is a serious issue that medical N95 masks are not easily available to anyone who wants to buy them.
Best evidence suggests N95s probably aren't necessary with this virus unless performing certain procedures on patients. I used to fret about not having an N95, now there's enough evidence it doesn't bother me.

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by nisiprius » Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:03 am

Yes, I have had this problem. We have no medical masks of any kind. I began with some workshop dust masks and found them very troublesome. I'm having enough problems with hypochondria that, no thanks, I don't want anything that seems to give me trouble breathing! My wife showed me how to use a bandanna and a couple of ear-sized rubber bands, much better. And then I bought a couple of premade cloth masks from an Etsy seller, better yet.

Doubtless that's in order of declining effectiveness, but my personal notion is that a cloth mask is no more effective than covering your cough, say with the inside of your elbow--except that it's always there. And that, as the slogan goes, "My mask protects you, your mask protects me." It also encourages people to keep their distance.

Anyway, the official current CDC recommendation is:
Cloth face coverings should—
  • fit snugly but comfortably against the side of the face
  • be secured with ties or ear loops
  • include multiple layers of fabric
  • allow for breathing without restriction
  • be able to be laundered and machine dried without damage or change to shape
and notice that they do say "comfortably" and "allow for breathing without restriction."
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by atikovi » Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:33 am

I have a 3M brand mask from Home Depot labeled N95. Pretty miserable to wear for more than a few minutes. Besides the two bands being so tight they pinch the back of your head, it's like breathing into your cupped hands. You're breathing in the carbon dioxide you exhale. That's probably why you're feeling lightheaded. Now I use only the bottom band and put the mask just over my mouth when in a store and only put it over my nose when interacting with a clerk. Much more tolerable.

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by Lynette » Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:44 am

I have an N100 mask from my painting days. I think it is even more effective than the R95. I wore the N100 yesterday and after an hour I felt like fainting as I could not breathe. I went to another store and wore a two layer cloth mask that I got from Amazon. I could breathe easier and think it might provide mild effectiveness to others against me but I rate it as junk. I ordered four cloth mask from Etsy in the U.K. They were shipped on April 6 but still have not arrived. Yesterday I received some from China that I ordered on Amazon on March 31. I will try to use them in the future. I have a few more orders on Amazon that are supposed to arrive some time or other. I go shopping early in the morning and there are few people around and everyone is keeping the distance.

Enjoy searching for and constructing masks!

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by FI4LIFE » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:01 am

Restrictions to your breathing can cause anxiety.

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by atikovi » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:02 am

FI4LIFE wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:01 am
Restrictions to your breathing can cause anxiety.
Anxiety can cause difficulty breathing.

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by 2cents2 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:05 am

unstoppable wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:37 am
Are there any better kinds for this issue? I may try to make some tomorrow and also give some to my neighbors. I have some bandanas that will work perfect. Has anyone found a good store to buy any types of masks at?
Here are some links patterns for making masks. The first two have room for a filter. (I believe some folks have been using a paper towel as a filter layer.) We didn't have any elastic around the house, so we have used elastic hair bands and made some modifications to the pattern to accommodate parachute cord to tie the mask. We also used ribbon as ties. Putting in a metal nose piece helps to make a firm fit.

I have made this one with a couple of modifications to suit me--(I love how easy it is to follow the tutorial)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QrW4zIjMwY

This is the olson mask and it has a really good tutorial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnVk12sFRkY
https://www.unitypoint.org/filesimages/ ... ctions.pdf

https://freesewing.org/docs/patterns/fu/instructions/
https://freesewing.org/fu-facemask-free ... org.a4.pdf

I like this one, too. It has different sizes available.
https://www.craftpassion.com/wp-content ... attern.pdf

FI4LIFE
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by FI4LIFE » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:09 am

atikovi wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:02 am
FI4LIFE wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:01 am
Restrictions to your breathing can cause anxiety.
Anxiety can cause difficulty breathing.
Vicious circle

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tetractys
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by tetractys » Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:28 am

Mrxyz wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:14 am
IOW, there is no need to 'buffer' a simple face mask with anything like cotton to 'make it more efficient'.....buffering will not make it 'like N 50 to 95' nor will it help improve contact isolation.
Nobody said it would make a cloth mask “more efficient.” The reason to seal the gaps around the nose and eyes is mainly for comfort. And especially to avoid steaming up eyeglasses.

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JoMoney
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by JoMoney » Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:32 am

You are not alone with that issue. I can tolerate it, but it is uncomfortable, totally understandable if some have an even harder time with it. I have not found a good work around other than just limiting my wearing of it inside the store or when I might get un-avoidably close to others.

Me going out in public these days: :D https://youtu.be/lX5HwPqtMwM
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by tev9876 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:30 am

Interesting study here about the lack of effectiveness of preventing COVID positive people from spreading the virus wearing cotton and surgical masks: https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/m ... estigators

Short version: Known positive patients coughing into masks still spread the virus into the environment and OUTSIDE of the mask. That makes sense - if your glasses fog up that moist air would also be carrying the virus, onto your glasses, down your chin, back to your ears, face, forehead, outside of mask - it is going to escape around the entire perimeter. The outside of your mask is now contaminated so if you touch/adjust it you will be spreading virus to the next thing you touch. I believe this is the false sense of security that the CDC was worried about initially when they didn't recommend wearing masks. If a mask makes someone with a consistent cough think they are OK to go shopping it is probably more dangerous. For those not coughing it likely won't help/harm.

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by neilpilot » Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:34 am

atikovi wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:33 am
I have a 3M brand mask from Home Depot labeled N95. Pretty miserable to wear for more than a few minutes. Besides the two bands being so tight they pinch the back of your head, it's like breathing into your cupped hands. You're breathing in the carbon dioxide you exhale. That's probably why you're feeling lightheaded. Now I use only the bottom band and put the mask just over my mouth when in a store and only put it over my nose when interacting with a clerk. Much more tolerable.
Unless your a continuous mouth breather your essentially not wearing a mask if you don't also wear it over your nose.

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by Sandtrap » Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:40 am

unstoppable wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:37 am
I went to the grocery store for the first time since requiring face masks here, and to be honest probably the first time ever in general. I had a surgical mask here in plastic bag from a while ago that I was going to use for cleaning.

I noticed after a 30-40 min trip I was quite lightheaded and found it hard to breathe most of the time. I asked some friends and they didn’t have the same issue. Anyone else have a similar experience? I’ve read some are more sensitive to masks than others.

Are there any better kinds for this issue? I may try to make some tomorrow and also give some to my neighbors. I have some bandanas that will work perfect. Has anyone found a good store to buy any types of masks at?
What exact type of face mask are you using?
Do you have a brand and model number?
Can you post a picture of it?

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by atikovi » Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:41 am

neilpilot wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:34 am
atikovi wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:33 am
I have a 3M brand mask from Home Depot labeled N95. Pretty miserable to wear for more than a few minutes. Besides the two bands being so tight they pinch the back of your head, it's like breathing into your cupped hands. You're breathing in the carbon dioxide you exhale. That's probably why you're feeling lightheaded. Now I use only the bottom band and put the mask just over my mouth when in a store and only put it over my nose when interacting with a clerk. Much more tolerable.
Unless your a continuous mouth breather your essentially not wearing a mask if you don't also wear it over your nose.
The mask is primarily worn to prevent people from releasing aerosolized particles which primarily come from coughing and sneezing. Most humans cough and sneeze through their mouth not their nose.

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by neilpilot » Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:47 am

atikovi wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:41 am
neilpilot wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:34 am
atikovi wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:33 am
I have a 3M brand mask from Home Depot labeled N95. Pretty miserable to wear for more than a few minutes. Besides the two bands being so tight they pinch the back of your head, it's like breathing into your cupped hands. You're breathing in the carbon dioxide you exhale. That's probably why you're feeling lightheaded. Now I use only the bottom band and put the mask just over my mouth when in a store and only put it over my nose when interacting with a clerk. Much more tolerable.
Unless your a continuous mouth breather your essentially not wearing a mask if you don't also wear it over your nose.
The mask is primarily worn to prevent people from releasing aerosolized particles which primarily come from coughing and sneezing. Most humans cough and sneeze through their mouth not their nose.
OK, then let's hope you don't need the secondary protection afforded by your mask. Since I rarely sneeze or cough, I wonder if I can simply carry my mask and only put it on when interacting with a clerk?

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by atikovi » Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:52 am

neilpilot wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:47 am
atikovi wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:41 am
neilpilot wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:34 am
atikovi wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:33 am
I have a 3M brand mask from Home Depot labeled N95. Pretty miserable to wear for more than a few minutes. Besides the two bands being so tight they pinch the back of your head, it's like breathing into your cupped hands. You're breathing in the carbon dioxide you exhale. That's probably why you're feeling lightheaded. Now I use only the bottom band and put the mask just over my mouth when in a store and only put it over my nose when interacting with a clerk. Much more tolerable.
Unless your a continuous mouth breather your essentially not wearing a mask if you don't also wear it over your nose.
The mask is primarily worn to prevent people from releasing aerosolized particles which primarily come from coughing and sneezing. Most humans cough and sneeze through their mouth not their nose.
OK, then let's hope you don't need the secondary protection afforded by your mask. Since I rarely sneeze or cough, I wonder if I can simply carry my mask and only put it on when interacting with a clerk?
I put it on inside my car before going into a store. I don't wear it when just outside walking or in the car.

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by livesoft » Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:56 am

neilpilot wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:47 am
OK, then let's hope you don't need the secondary protection afforded by your mask. Since I rarely sneeze or cough, I wonder if I can simply carry my mask and only put it on when interacting with a clerk?
Other people may inadvertently or even on purpose come up to you and "interact" with you. Would you / Do you trust them?

What if someone with coronavirus was crazy and pissed off because they got infected, so they decided to go to one of these liberate rallies and infect everyone there, but without drawing attention to themselves?
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by nisiprius » Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:59 am

neilpilot wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:47 am
...Since I rarely sneeze or cough, I wonder if I can simply carry my mask and only put it on when interacting with a clerk?...
For whatever it might or might not be worth, the official current guidance from the CDC says:Use of Cloth Face Coverings to Help Slow the Spread of COVID-19
CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies), especially in areas of significant community-based transmission.
I interpret it to mean it would certainly be fine to wait until you enter a store to put it on.

I don't think cloth or surgical masks do much at all to stop aerosol transmission. I think they reduce droplet transmission. There's no bright-line division, but apparently there is a distinction... and it has been a disappointment that there is increasing evidence of aerosol transmission, when previously it had been hoped that it was only droplet transmission.

Have you noticed exactly what a feeble statement it is to say that they a) help to b) slow transmission? Whenever you get two qualifiers stacked like that, it doesn't mean much.
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by dbr » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:03 am

Don't forget a mask with an exhalation valve does not really prevent your cough or sneeze from contaminating the air around you. Health care masks would not have an exhalation valve. In surgery, etc. you are trying to protect the patient from the health care staff. In flu/cold treatment you are trying to protect well people from sick people. Those masks with valves are intended for industrial protection where the only need is to filter incoming air and the valve adds comfort on exhalation.

As to tight bands, an N95 mask is not protecting you effectively if it does not fit tightly to your face and that has to be checked in a fit test chamber to be sure. People with bad fit, facial hair, etc., are certainly not getting 95% protection due to leakage around the edges.

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by Luckywon » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:04 am

neilpilot wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:47 am

OK, then let's hope you don't need the secondary protection afforded by your mask. Since I rarely sneeze or cough, I wonder if I can simply carry my mask and only put it on when interacting with a clerk?
If there is a directive in your jurisdiction to wear a mask in a given situation, I very strongly suspect your reason above for not complying would not hold water (or germs). Allowing people to use their discretion based on whether they are a frequent cougher or sneezer is most likely as impractical as it sounds silly. Also, It may not be only coughing or sneezing that disperses virus in significant amounts. Granted much is unknown about how much a mask helps with this.

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by neilpilot » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:12 am

livesoft wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:56 am
neilpilot wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:47 am
OK, then let's hope you don't need the secondary protection afforded by your mask. Since I rarely sneeze or cough, I wonder if I can simply carry my mask and only put it on when interacting with a clerk?
Other people may inadvertently or even on purpose come up to you and "interact" with you. Would you / Do you trust them?

"I wonder if I can simply carry my mask and only put it on when interacting with a clerk?" was an unsuccessful attempt at sarcasm. It was meant as criticism of the practice of wearing a respirator or other covering over the mouth but not the nose.

Pre-retirement I worked for years as a safety director, and sometimes designed training & procedures involving use of PPE, including respirators. In the workplace when a user was observed wearing a mask improperly, they sometimes used the excuse that they would fix the infringement if they entered a contaminated area. That comment would subject them to retraining and/or discipline. Either you wear the respirator properly, or you don't wear it.
That would extend to someone wearing an N95 with only one strap affixed, and certainly without their nose covered.
Last edited by neilpilot on Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by dbr » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:12 am

nisiprius wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:59 am

I don't think cloth or surgical masks do much at all to stop aerosol transmission. I think they reduce droplet transmission. There's no bright-line division, but apparently there is a distinction... and it has been a disappointment that there is increasing evidence of aerosol transmission, when previously it had been hoped that it was only droplet transmission.
In respiratory protection there is a phenomenon known as the most penetrating particle size. That size is about 0.3 micron. Particles of that size penetrate the farthest into the respiratory system and are the most difficult to filter in any filter media. The reason for this is that different filtration mechanisms operate to make filtration of larger and smaller particles than most penetrating easier to stop. The point of an N95 mask is to be highly efficient at the most penetrating particle size. Aerosols are in particle size 3nm to 100um. The .3um particle is in that range.

Simple cloth masks are not going to filter aerosols but they most likely are very effective to prevent your cough and sneeze from spewing around you and probably prevent large droplets from someone coughing or sneezing at you from entering your airways.
Last edited by dbr on Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

EnjoyIt
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by EnjoyIt » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:12 am

atikovi wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:33 am
I have a 3M brand mask from Home Depot labeled N95. Pretty miserable to wear for more than a few minutes. Besides the two bands being so tight they pinch the back of your head, it's like breathing into your cupped hands. You're breathing in the carbon dioxide you exhale. That's probably why you're feeling lightheaded. Now I use only the bottom band and put the mask just over my mouth when in a store and only put it over my nose when interacting with a clerk. Much more tolerable.
I’m sorry to say, but your actions are completely useless and frankly a waste of a perfectly good N95 that could be helping save someone’s life.

Disclaimer: I’m a physician who wears such a mask regularly and wish we had more.
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by freckles01 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:14 am

tev9876 wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:30 am
Interesting study here about the lack of effectiveness of preventing COVID positive people from spreading the virus wearing cotton and surgical masks: https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/m ... estigators

Short version: Known positive patients coughing into masks still spread the virus into the environment and OUTSIDE of the mask. That makes sense - if your glasses fog up that moist air would also be carrying the virus, onto your glasses, down your chin, back to your ears, face, forehead, outside of mask - it is going to escape around the entire perimeter. The outside of your mask is now contaminated so if you touch/adjust it you will be spreading virus to the next thing you touch. I believe this is the false sense of security that the CDC was worried about initially when they didn't recommend wearing masks. If a mask makes someone with a consistent cough think they are OK to go shopping it is probably more dangerous. For those not coughing it likely won't help/harm.
a cloth or regular (vs n95) surgical mask isn't made to contain the droplets/aerosol from a sneeze or cough within the mask. it helps to stop the projectile of a sneeze/cough from traveling as far as it could without a mask/"lid".

like flushing a toilet with the lid down. the lid just helps the germs from shooting straight up and cascading down all over the bathroom. it will still leak out the sides and then drop down but contaminate less of the bathroom.

hard to do but its recommended to NOT touch the outside of the mask at all once its placed on and adjusted to fit (consider the outside of the mask as contaminated once its on), wash hands then remove mask by untying strap/elastic from behind and let the mask fall into the trash and then wash hands again.

dont know if the link below will work but it show how far and how gross a cough/sneeze is then then openly without a cover over your mouth.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=htt ... AdAAAAABAD

EnjoyIt
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by EnjoyIt » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:16 am

atikovi wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:41 am
neilpilot wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:34 am
atikovi wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:33 am
I have a 3M brand mask from Home Depot labeled N95. Pretty miserable to wear for more than a few minutes. Besides the two bands being so tight they pinch the back of your head, it's like breathing into your cupped hands. You're breathing in the carbon dioxide you exhale. That's probably why you're feeling lightheaded. Now I use only the bottom band and put the mask just over my mouth when in a store and only put it over my nose when interacting with a clerk. Much more tolerable.
Unless your a continuous mouth breather your essentially not wearing a mask if you don't also wear it over your nose.
The mask is primarily worn to prevent people from releasing aerosolized particles which primarily come from coughing and sneezing. Most humans cough and sneeze through their mouth not their nose.
This statement is also false. When we breath and talk we release virus particles. An N95 mask is mostly designed to protect you from others. The way that you are wearing it now, you might as well not be wearing one at all.
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by dbr » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:17 am

PS I am not aware of any effective respirator that is not uncomfortable to wear. Possibly the best solution for long term comfort on a job would be an air purifying helmet: https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=ai ... &FORM=IGRE Such devices are not feasible in every application.

What is not known is how much of what kind of masking is really helpful in this situation. Or maybe it is known, but the subject is complex.

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tetractys
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by tetractys » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:33 am

Most people I've seen wearing the N95s have them crumpled up, under their chin, old and dirty, etc. I will see them walk into an area, like a grocery store, and slide them up distorted onto their face with an obviously useless seal. And my word--NO FACE SHIELD!

So for the general public, us, it may be better to vie for comfort rather than technical perfection. After all, we aren't often faced with large amounts of atomized body fluids. And hopefully, being among other cooperative individuals, we shouldn't have to worry about machine gun coughers and projectile sneezers. Kudos to our medical workers that relieve us of that!

So IMHO, when venturing out amongst our filthy masses, wear your mask humbly and breathe meekly.

stay back move away
keep your breath from each other
it’s covidision

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by mhalley » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:52 am

If you wear the mask over the mouth and not the nose, you might as well do this:
https://www.google.com/search?q=picture ... qT_xQ9annM:

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by atikovi » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:57 am

EnjoyIt wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:12 am
atikovi wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:33 am
I have a 3M brand mask from Home Depot labeled N95. Pretty miserable to wear for more than a few minutes. Besides the two bands being so tight they pinch the back of your head, it's like breathing into your cupped hands. You're breathing in the carbon dioxide you exhale. That's probably why you're feeling lightheaded. Now I use only the bottom band and put the mask just over my mouth when in a store and only put it over my nose when interacting with a clerk. Much more tolerable.
I’m sorry to say, but your actions are completely useless and frankly a waste of a perfectly good N95 that could be helping save someone’s life.

Disclaimer: I’m a physician who wears such a mask regularly and wish we had more.
How so? This is now a state requirement.

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by Luckywon » Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:19 pm

atikovi wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:57 am
EnjoyIt wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:12 am
atikovi wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:33 am
I have a 3M brand mask from Home Depot labeled N95. Pretty miserable to wear for more than a few minutes. Besides the two bands being so tight they pinch the back of your head, it's like breathing into your cupped hands. You're breathing in the carbon dioxide you exhale. That's probably why you're feeling lightheaded. Now I use only the bottom band and put the mask just over my mouth when in a store and only put it over my nose when interacting with a clerk. Much more tolerable.
I’m sorry to say, but your actions are completely useless and frankly a waste of a perfectly good N95 that could be helping save someone’s life.

Disclaimer: I’m a physician who wears such a mask regularly and wish we had more.
How so? This is now a state requirement.
Your state requirement may be for some facial covering, but most certainly not for an N95 mask, which as Enjoyit has stated are in short supply where they are needed most, i.e. in health care facilities.

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by atikovi » Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:32 pm

I've had this mask for years. What health care facility would want it? I just read in the paper that Inova hospital is prohibiting their employees from even bringing in masks from home.

EnjoyIt
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by EnjoyIt » Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:41 pm

atikovi wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:57 am
EnjoyIt wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:12 am
atikovi wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:33 am
I have a 3M brand mask from Home Depot labeled N95. Pretty miserable to wear for more than a few minutes. Besides the two bands being so tight they pinch the back of your head, it's like breathing into your cupped hands. You're breathing in the carbon dioxide you exhale. That's probably why you're feeling lightheaded. Now I use only the bottom band and put the mask just over my mouth when in a store and only put it over my nose when interacting with a clerk. Much more tolerable.
I’m sorry to say, but your actions are completely useless and frankly a waste of a perfectly good N95 that could be helping save someone’s life.

Disclaimer: I’m a physician who wears such a mask regularly and wish we had more.
How so? This is now a state requirement.
The way you wear your mask is completely useless to yourself and the people around you. You might as well wear nothing at all. You are far better off donating your N95 to a nearby healthcare facility that can sterilize and repurpose that mask hopefully savings someone's life.

If you are to wear a mask in public, then wear it over your nose and mouth the entire time while in public. Just covering your mouth or just your nose is useless. Not having a tight secure fit is practically useless.
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cashboy
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by cashboy » Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:49 pm

it can take some time to get used to wearing a face mask that filters air if one has never done so. if one has a tight seal the air flow is restricted (and that is good).

one thing that helped me was walking 'a little slower' to reduce my oxygen requirements.

another thing that helped me was breathing a little slower (easier to do if walking a little slower) AND breathing through my mouth (not just the nose) to get more oxygen in on every breath.


as far as masks with vents (like some n95s), those vent 'flaps' are designed to allow only the smallest amount of air to escape and there is a fixed covering over the vent flap to prevent any exhale from 'projecting'.
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EnjoyIt
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by EnjoyIt » Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:56 pm

cashboy wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:49 pm
it can take some time to get used to wearing a face mask that filters air if one has never done so. if one has a tight seal the air flow is restricted (and that is good).

one thing that helped me was walking 'a little slower' to reduce my oxygen requirements.

another thing that helped me was breathing a little slower (easier to do if walking a little slower) AND breathing through my mouth (not just the nose) to get more oxygen in on every breath.


as far as masks with vents (like some n95s), those vent 'flaps' are designed to allow only the smallest amount of air to escape and there is a fixed covering over the vent flap to prevent any exhale from 'projecting'.
slow steady breaths work better than big fast ones. The reason is because when you breath hard and fast there is more leakage around the edges of the mask.
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by squirm » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:00 pm

unstoppable wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:37 am
I went to the grocery store for the first time since requiring face masks here, and to be honest probably the first time ever in general. I had a surgical mask here in plastic bag from a while ago that I was going to use for cleaning.

I noticed after a 30-40 min trip I was quite lightheaded and found it hard to breathe most of the time. I asked some friends and they didn’t have the same issue. Anyone else have a similar experience? I’ve read some are more sensitive to masks than others.

Are there any better kinds for this issue? I may try to make some tomorrow and also give some to my neighbors. I have some bandanas that will work perfect. Has anyone found a good store to buy any types of masks at?
This is your first time using it, don't worry, you'll acclimate.

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by squirm » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:03 pm

atikovi wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:33 am
I have a 3M brand mask from Home Depot labeled N95. Pretty miserable to wear for more than a few minutes. Besides the two bands being so tight they pinch the back of your head, it's like breathing into your cupped hands. You're breathing in the carbon dioxide you exhale. That's probably why you're feeling lightheaded. Now I use only the bottom band and put the mask just over my mouth when in a store and only put it over my nose when interacting with a clerk. Much more tolerable.
Maybe yours is clogged? Some of mine get clogged when I've been wearing them working in like the attic with all the insulation and stuff. Anyways, all air needs to get filtered otherwise the effectiveness goes way down.

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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by Lynette » Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:49 pm

I have been checking my orders on Amazon and notice that this mask seems to have a 3 - 5 delivery time frame:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B086K ... UTF8&psc=1

I think it is what a lot of people I see are wearing when I go shopping. It is not a N95 and it may be a little easier to breathe in it. It seems to be the same type as others that I ordered on Amazon and are coming from China. I think they they are being distributed by Amazon.com LLC, the marketing arm of Amazon. I guess that they saw a marketing opportunity and decided to jump in and compete with some of the somewhat questionable other vendors on Amazon. If it worries you, it was made in Wuhan. I ordered a set on the 16th and I think I will get them tomorrow.

stan1
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by stan1 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:03 pm

Have not found a good design yet for a washable cloth mask that doesn't fog my glasses.

Any suggestions on a design that works best with glasses?

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iceport
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Re: Issues with face masks?

Post by iceport » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:34 pm

stan1 wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:03 pm
Have not found a good design yet for a washable cloth mask that doesn't fog my glasses.

Any suggestions on a design that works best with glasses?
I've had pretty good luck with this design: https://diyjoy.com/diy-safety-mask/ (Don't try to figure out the cropped pictures, just watch the video.)

The design is very simple, but it's surprisingly effective. By that I mean there seems to be relatively little leakage, with really the only chance of leaking being around the bridge of the nose.

I made my last one in <10 minutes, start to finish. No sewing.

If you use a T-shirt with a hem, you can wear the hem over the nose, and slip a wide coffee bag tie into the hem to conform to your nose. You can also easily cut this double-width and make it two-ply, if your fabric isn't thick or densely woven enough.

I also want to try inserting a vacuum bag layer in between a two-ply version, but I couldn't find one on my last trip to the store and don't want to waste a good Nilfisk bag.

Estimated effectiveness of various fabrics:

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/bes ... ask-virus/

A heavy old Carhartt work shirt in single ply seemed more effective than a two-ply version made from a white undershirt.
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