Safest way to get food

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pablolo
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Safest way to get food

Post by pablolo »

What do you feel is the safest way to get food? Online shopping and pick up in the parking lot with the food delivered on top of the car or delivered to your house or personal shopping in grocery stores?
livesoft
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by livesoft »

It probably depends on where you live. Two Three Four people who lived next door to my local grocery store died of coronavirus this week.
Last edited by livesoft on Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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mhalley
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by mhalley »

The safest in order
1. No contact delivery
2. Pickup in parking lot
3. In store shopping
Tips on how to handle groceries once home
I am not recommending disinfecting your groceries,” Don Schaffner, a professor of food microbiology at Rutgers School of Environmental and Biological Sciences and host of the podcasts Food Safety Talk and Risky or Not?, told Vox. “This seems like being overly cautious. We don’t know of any cases of Covid-19 transmitted by food, nor of any cases transmitted by food packaging.”

That’s pretty much what the FDA is saying, too. In a statement on March 24, Frank Yiannas, the FDA’s deputy commissioner for food policy and response, noted that “there is no evidence of human or animal food or food packaging being associated with transmission of the coronavirus that causes Covid-19.”

“I’m doing the same things I’ve always done in terms of washing my produce,” says Petrie. “I’m not wiping down my packaging, or leaving it outside for three days, like I’ve seen in some stories.”
https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2020/3/30 ... safe-empty
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JoMoney
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by JoMoney »

Delivered to your house. Auto accidents will top most other hazards.
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JAZZISCOOL
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by JAZZISCOOL »

Check out this other BH thread. Lots of good ideas and reports on shopping or getting food delivered:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=309433
Topic Author
pablolo
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by pablolo »

I ordered online of meal from Olive garden free paid with my credit card online and then went to curbside and had them deliver the food on top of my car with the window up I felt safe
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by HawkeyePierce »

I've been getting groceries delivered. Instacart drops my order on the doorstep. Anything non-perishable sits inside the door for three days, since that's how long the CDC says the virus can last on plastic. For produce, I've been sticking with things that are packaged (salad mixes), peeled (bananas) or cooked (potatoes).

I've also been ordering delivery from a local Nepalese place. I set out clean tupperware before hand. The driver drops the food on the doorstep, I bring it an and transfer the food to the tupperware, dispose of the containers and wash my hands.
Trader Joe
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by Trader Joe »

pablolo wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:28 pm What do you feel is the safest way to get food? Online shopping and pick up in the parking lot with the food delivered on top of the car or delivered to your house or personal shopping in grocery stores?
The safest way to get food for me is the way it has always has been in my whole lifetime. Going to the grocery store. I just went today.
adamthesmythe
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by adamthesmythe »

After a relatively unsatisfactory experience with Instacart, I went to the grocery store.

(Instacart didn't buy everything, and the substitutes were not always appropriate. When I shop I can usually get a nonobvious substitute for the things that are not available. We don't have curb pickup available).

I went very early, the store was mostly old people. The store made efforts to reduce chances of exposure with spacing people in line, etc. I tried to get in and out quickly (not made easy by slow old people). I figure I have a small risk of exposure by going to the store but there is at least one less person handling my groceries.

I intend to keep visits to the store to an absolute minimum, no picking up things I forgot.

An earlier suggestion that driving was more risky that the chance of getting coronavirus...is, I think, nonsense.
ETadvisor
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by ETadvisor »

My understanding is the most likely way the coronavirus is transferred is from person to person contact. For safest way to get food, I would eliminate the contact with people. To achieve this, I would schedule no contact delivery by instacart, shipt, etc., to the place of residence with instructions to leave food outside the door. After delivery person has left, collect the food with gloves. Dispose all bags and boxes used to carry the food. Remove gloves, dispose, and wash hands. If possible reduce the amount of food trips and eat what you have already stored.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by ResearchMed »

Trader Joe wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:57 pm
pablolo wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:28 pm What do you feel is the safest way to get food? Online shopping and pick up in the parking lot with the food delivered on top of the car or delivered to your house or personal shopping in grocery stores?
The safest way to get food for me is the way it has always has been in my whole lifetime. Going to the grocery store. I just went today.
Well, you've got your own chain of grocery stores, so of course you feel comfortable with them!

:D

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Sandtrap
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by Sandtrap »

DW and I are in the risk group so on our rare trips to town, either not together, the protocols when in public are:

N95 masks
Eye shields.....glasses
Long sleeve shirts n hats
Pockets full of disinfectant wipes
Latex surgical gloves

Disinfect everything before entering home, all groceries, mail, etc.
Wash all clothing

We’re ok for now.
Whew!!!

We also have some Tyvek disposable coverall suits from the shop in case of “Livesoft’s” double RBD.....

j🏝
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stoptothink
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by stoptothink »

Sandtrap wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:24 pm DW and I are in the risk group so on our rare trips to town, either not together, the protocols when in public are:

N95 masks
Eye shields.....glasses
Long sleeve shirts n hats
Pockets full of disinfectant wipes
Latex surgical gloves

Disinfect everything before entering home, all groceries, mail, etc.
Wash all clothing

We’re ok for now.
Whew!!!

We also have some Tyvek disposable coverall suits from the shop in case of “Livesoft’s” double RBD.....

j🏝
Make sure you remove those gloves properly, otherwise it is likely worse than not wearing them (the surface spreads viruses more efficiently than skin). Even a lot of healthcare professionals do not properly take off gloves.
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tetractys
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by tetractys »

Have food delivered in sealed containers to a conveyor belt which runs through a disinfectant misted tunnel flooded with ultraviolet light before arriving at your reception zone.
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Sandtrap
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by Sandtrap »

stoptothink wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:33 pm
Sandtrap wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:24 pm DW and I are in the risk group so on our rare trips to town, either not together, the protocols when in public are:

N95 masks
Eye shields.....glasses
Long sleeve shirts n hats
Pockets full of disinfectant wipes
Latex surgical gloves

Disinfect everything before entering home, all groceries, mail, etc.
Wash all clothing

We’re ok for now.
Whew!!!

We also have some Tyvek disposable coverall suits from the shop in case of “Livesoft’s” double RBD.....

j🏝
Make sure you remove those gloves properly, otherwise it is likely worse than not wearing them (the surface spreads viruses more efficiently than skin). Even a lot of healthcare professionals do not properly take off gloves.
Yes. Good point.
Paramedic son went over the protocols with us.

Thanks
j :happy
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Sandtrap
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by Sandtrap »

tetractys wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:38 pm Have food delivered in sealed containers to a conveyor belt which runs through a disinfectant misted tunnel flooded with ultraviolet light before arriving at your reception zone.
Yes! Now you're talkin'!
And, an intermediate sealed chamber for mist decontamination of hazmat suits!

Brings to mind the movie, "Outbreak" (Dustin Hoffman, etc).

j :happy
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celia
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by celia »

The “safest” food is what you owned before the virus started. Clear out your fridge, pantry, and freezer. We will soon be eating our dehydrated earthquake food supply, partly to see if it is still edible but also see which cans we like the best so we can re-purchase that when this is over.
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llama
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by llama »

Every time I've been to the grocery store recently it's been packed and impossible to maintain any kind of distance from others. I gave Instacart a try once but ended up with some truly bizarre substitutions.

Now I'm back to good old reliable Amazon Fresh delivery. I'd previously given up because their packaging was excessive but they've improved quite a bit.
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by Fallible »

celia wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:07 pm The “safest” food is what you owned before the virus started. ...
This is what I'm thinking after reading the latest from health experts about the risks of in-store shopping. Like others here, I and several neighbors are now ordering online from our local supermarket, home delivery, and hoping.
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by random_walker_77 »

Sandtrap wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:24 pm DW and I are in the risk group so on our rare trips to town, either not together, the protocols when in public are:

N95 masks
Eye shields.....glasses
Long sleeve shirts n hats
Pockets full of disinfectant wipes
Latex surgical gloves

Disinfect everything before entering home, all groceries, mail, etc.
Wash all clothing

We’re ok for now.
Whew!!!

We also have some Tyvek disposable coverall suits from the shop in case of “Livesoft’s” double RBD.....

j🏝
A colleague from our Shanghai office recently gave a talk to our group. He shared a picture of his outfit for grocery shopping and it was similar to this: Image

He described leaving the raincoat and stuff outside his apartment door, as well as storing packages outside his apartment door for a couple days before disinfecting and bringing inside. This is highly contagious, and unless everyone takes it seriously to stop its spread, it's going to keep expanding out of control.

They've been taking things very seriously over in china, w/ temperature checks entering buildings, and extensive use of masks and precautions. Given the level of skepticism still expressed among some in my community, I'm afraid that we won't go far enough until we see enough deaths, and by then it'll be too late.
Last edited by random_walker_77 on Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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timboktoo
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by timboktoo »

livesoft wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:32 pm It probably depends on where you live. Two people who lived next door to my local grocery store died of coronavirus this week.
My face just fell through my neck and out through the bottom of my stomach.
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by palanzo »

stoptothink wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:33 pm
Sandtrap wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:24 pm DW and I are in the risk group so on our rare trips to town, either not together, the protocols when in public are:

N95 masks
Eye shields.....glasses
Long sleeve shirts n hats
Pockets full of disinfectant wipes
Latex surgical gloves

Disinfect everything before entering home, all groceries, mail, etc.
Wash all clothing

We’re ok for now.
Whew!!!

We also have some Tyvek disposable coverall suits from the shop in case of “Livesoft’s” double RBD.....

j🏝
Make sure you remove those gloves properly, otherwise it is likely worse than not wearing them (the surface spreads viruses more efficiently than skin). Even a lot of healthcare professionals do not properly take off gloves.
Exactly so.

Sandtrap: how are you disinfecting your groceries? UV light?
Blue456
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by Blue456 »

mhalley wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:35 pm The safest in order
1. No contact delivery
2. Pickup in parking lot
3. In store shopping
Tips on how to handle groceries once home
I am not recommending disinfecting your groceries,” Don Schaffner, a professor of food microbiology at Rutgers School of Environmental and Biological Sciences and host of the podcasts Food Safety Talk and Risky or Not?, told Vox. “This seems like being overly cautious. We don’t know of any cases of Covid-19 transmitted by food, nor of any cases transmitted by food packaging.”

That’s pretty much what the FDA is saying, too. In a statement on March 24, Frank Yiannas, the FDA’s deputy commissioner for food policy and response, noted that “there is no evidence of human or animal food or food packaging being associated with transmission of the coronavirus that causes Covid-19.”

“I’m doing the same things I’ve always done in terms of washing my produce,” says Petrie. “I’m not wiping down my packaging, or leaving it outside for three days, like I’ve seen in some stories.”
https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2020/3/30 ... safe-empty
Expert opinions are just that -- opinions. In medicine I don't really care what experts say, I need evidence, and not just any kind of evidence. In addition to that just because something is not documented doesn't mean that it is not happening or that it is not real. The other issue with "cases" being reported is that most people that get Covid 19 are not tested for reasons that are beyond the scope of this thread. Not to mention that those "cases" that are reported are not tracked to the source of the infection.
pablolo wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:28 pm What do you feel is the safest way to get food? Online shopping and pick up in the parking lot with the food delivered on top of the car or delivered to your house or personal shopping in grocery stores?
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/N ... lB_article

From the above article it seems like virus can stay active on plastic for about 3 days, stainless steal also 3 days and cardboard box for about 2 days. Make your own conclusions about the chance of someone contaminating your food at the store and act accordingly.
Rolyatroba
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by Rolyatroba »

livesoft wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:32 pm It probably depends on where you live. Two people who lived next door to my local grocery store died of coronavirus this week.
Livesoft, you are one of my favorite contributors to this site, so I am hoping that you will follow up this reply with some corroborating info that the people who lived next door to your local grocery store contracted the virus from that store.

And even if they did, note you can't become infected by eating food that has coronavirus on it (unless you breathe while swallowing infected food at the same time). It is a respiratory disease that must enter your lungs or sinuses to infect you. So, wherever you get food from, as long as you stick to the normal best practices on this, you won't be at risk.
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by Fallible »

tetractys wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:38 pm Have food delivered in sealed containers to a conveyor belt which runs through a disinfectant misted tunnel flooded with ultraviolet light before arriving at your reception zone.
What about the food, the food growers, and food handlers who put it into the sealed containers? :confused
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ResearchMed
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by ResearchMed »

stoptothink wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:33 pm
Sandtrap wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:24 pm DW and I are in the risk group so on our rare trips to town, either not together, the protocols when in public are:

N95 masks
Eye shields.....glasses
Long sleeve shirts n hats
Pockets full of disinfectant wipes
Latex surgical gloves

Disinfect everything before entering home, all groceries, mail, etc.
Wash all clothing

We’re ok for now.
Whew!!!

We also have some Tyvek disposable coverall suits from the shop in case of “Livesoft’s” double RBD.....

j🏝
Make sure you remove those gloves properly, otherwise it is likely worse than not wearing them (the surface spreads viruses more efficiently than skin). Even a lot of healthcare professionals do not properly take off gloves.
Hmmm... We've been just peeling them off so they end up inside out, and then disposing of them.
Is there a better way?
(The front entrance of a CVS near us tends to get a small collection of these, as people apparently peel them off and just toss them by the front door. :annoyed )

Thanks.

RM
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jjface
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by jjface »

Just planted a seed pack I had. Now just have to wait for it to grow then I can eat.
stoptothink
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by stoptothink »

ResearchMed wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:32 pm
stoptothink wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:33 pm
Sandtrap wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:24 pm DW and I are in the risk group so on our rare trips to town, either not together, the protocols when in public are:

N95 masks
Eye shields.....glasses
Long sleeve shirts n hats
Pockets full of disinfectant wipes
Latex surgical gloves

Disinfect everything before entering home, all groceries, mail, etc.
Wash all clothing

We’re ok for now.
Whew!!!

We also have some Tyvek disposable coverall suits from the shop in case of “Livesoft’s” double RBD.....

j🏝
Make sure you remove those gloves properly, otherwise it is likely worse than not wearing them (the surface spreads viruses more efficiently than skin). Even a lot of healthcare professionals do not properly take off gloves.
Hmmm... We've been just peeling them off so they end up inside out, and then disposing of them.
Is there a better way?
(The front entrance of a CVS near us tends to get a small collection of these, as people apparently peel them off and just toss them by the front door. :annoyed )

Thanks.

RM
Yes, pinch at the wrist on one glove and pull it off inside out and then use that to remove other glove. Even though it is literally the most significant step they can take to limit risk for them and their patients, a significant amount of healthcare professionals do it incorrectly out of laziness.
RomeoMustDie
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by RomeoMustDie »

Trader Joe wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:57 pm
pablolo wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:28 pm What do you feel is the safest way to get food? Online shopping and pick up in the parking lot with the food delivered on top of the car or delivered to your house or personal shopping in grocery stores?
The safest way to get food for me is the way it has always has been in my whole lifetime. Going to the grocery store. I just went today.
Trader Joe telling people to go to grocery stores despite killer lung eating virus ;-)
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Sandtrap
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by Sandtrap »

random_walker_77 wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:26 pm
Sandtrap wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:24 pm DW and I are in the risk group so on our rare trips to town, either not together, the protocols when in public are:

N95 masks
Eye shields.....glasses
Long sleeve shirts n hats
Pockets full of disinfectant wipes
Latex surgical gloves

Disinfect everything before entering home, all groceries, mail, etc.
Wash all clothing

We’re ok for now.
Whew!!!

We also have some Tyvek disposable coverall suits from the shop in case of “Livesoft’s” double RBD.....

j🏝
A colleague from our Shanghai office recently gave a talk to our group. He shared a picture of his outfit for grocery shopping and it was similar to this: Image

He described leaving the raincoat and stuff outside his apartment door, as well as storing packages outside his apartment door for a couple days before disinfecting and bringing inside. This is highly contagious, and unless everyone takes it seriously to stop its spread, it's going to keep expanding out of control.

They've been taking things very seriously over in china, w/ temperature checks entering buildings, and extensive use of masks and precautions. Given the level of skepticism still expressed among some in my community, I'm afraid that we won't go far enough until we see enough deaths, and by then it'll be too late.
I am always surprised that most everyone out and about in town do not used masks and gloves.
And, I understand that the media underplays the need for protective gear to the public to ensure that medical and ems has supplies. But. . . . . . . .

It seems to me that if everyone took high protective measures like in the picture you put up, then things would be more under control.
Dunno??

Thanks for posting the picture.
j :happy
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Sandtrap
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by Sandtrap »

stoptothink wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:45 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:32 pm
stoptothink wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:33 pm
Sandtrap wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:24 pm DW and I are in the risk group so on our rare trips to town, either not together, the protocols when in public are:

N95 masks
Eye shields.....glasses
Long sleeve shirts n hats
Pockets full of disinfectant wipes
Latex surgical gloves

Disinfect everything before entering home, all groceries, mail, etc.
Wash all clothing

We’re ok for now.
Whew!!!

We also have some Tyvek disposable coverall suits from the shop in case of “Livesoft’s” double RBD.....

j🏝
Make sure you remove those gloves properly, otherwise it is likely worse than not wearing them (the surface spreads viruses more efficiently than skin). Even a lot of healthcare professionals do not properly take off gloves.
Hmmm... We've been just peeling them off so they end up inside out, and then disposing of them.
Is there a better way?
(The front entrance of a CVS near us tends to get a small collection of these, as people apparently peel them off and just toss them by the front door. :annoyed )

Thanks.

RM
Yes, pinch at the wrist on one glove and pull it off inside out and then use that to remove other glove. Even though it is literally the most significant step they can take to limit risk for them and their patients, a significant amount of healthcare professionals do it incorrectly out of laziness.
Also, inside out on the second glove by pinching the wrist. First glove is not taken off completely. So, if body fluids, blood, etc, then it will remain inside. . . . as taught by my paramedic son.

j :happy
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Sandtrap
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by Sandtrap »

palanzo wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:28 pm
stoptothink wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:33 pm
Sandtrap wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:24 pm DW and I are in the risk group so on our rare trips to town, either not together, the protocols when in public are:

N95 masks
Eye shields.....glasses
Long sleeve shirts n hats
Pockets full of disinfectant wipes
Latex surgical gloves

Disinfect everything before entering home, all groceries, mail, etc.
Wash all clothing

We’re ok for now.
Whew!!!

We also have some Tyvek disposable coverall suits from the shop in case of “Livesoft’s” double RBD.....

j🏝
Make sure you remove those gloves properly, otherwise it is likely worse than not wearing them (the surface spreads viruses more efficiently than skin). Even a lot of healthcare professionals do not properly take off gloves.
Exactly so.

Sandtrap: how are you disinfecting your groceries? UV light?
Containers and boxes get thrown out if possible, before entering the home.
DW wipes everything down. Washes the produce.
UV light might be a good idea. Have one. Haven't thought of that.

DW and I are in the high risk group, and do not have anyone else in our home, so we are careful when we go to town.

j :happy
Last edited by Sandtrap on Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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palanzo
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by palanzo »

Sandtrap wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:24 pm DW and I are in the risk group so on our rare trips to town, either not together, the protocols when in public are:

N95 masks
Eye shields.....glasses
Long sleeve shirts n hats
Pockets full of disinfectant wipes
Latex surgical gloves

Disinfect everything before entering home, all groceries, mail, etc.
Wash all clothing

We’re ok for now.
Whew!!!

We also have some Tyvek disposable coverall suits from the shop in case of “Livesoft’s” double RBD.....

j🏝
How are you disinfecting your groceries? UV light?
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ResearchMed
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Re: Safest way to get food

Post by ResearchMed »

Sandtrap wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:00 pm
palanzo wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:28 pm
stoptothink wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:33 pm
Sandtrap wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:24 pm DW and I are in the risk group so on our rare trips to town, either not together, the protocols when in public are:

N95 masks
Eye shields.....glasses
Long sleeve shirts n hats
Pockets full of disinfectant wipes
Latex surgical gloves

Disinfect everything before entering home, all groceries, mail, etc.
Wash all clothing

We’re ok for now.
Whew!!!

We also have some Tyvek disposable coverall suits from the shop in case of “Livesoft’s” double RBD.....

j🏝
Make sure you remove those gloves properly, otherwise it is likely worse than not wearing them (the surface spreads viruses more efficiently than skin). Even a lot of healthcare professionals do not properly take off gloves.
Exactly so.

Sandtrap: how are you disinfecting your groceries? UV light?
DW wipes everything down. Washes the produce.
UV light might be a good idea. Have one. Haven't thought of that.

j :happy
With the gloves and also grocery bags/containers/etc., it's actually sometimes non-trivial to avoid contaminating a surface without thinking about it, and then... just carrying on with potential contamination.

As for produce, we just aren't buying much of that other than canned or frozen. (One too many - actually, two - documented reports of jokers purposefully coughing over the fresh produce... Sheesh...)

But things like sweet potatoes, we do wash those with soap and water. And rinsse well (!). Wiping those won't work, given the very uneven surfaces.

Anything that doesn't need to be put in the fridge or freezer just sits for about a week, and then it goes into the pantry. We have a little rotation system going.

As for UV, I think it only works on areas where the light shines directly. So any grooves/etc., wouldn't get sanitized (at least, not AFAIK).

RM
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Swivelguy
Posts: 425
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:37 pm

Re: Safest way to get food

Post by Swivelguy »

If you want to get food in-person at the store, here's the maximum-caution way I did it, using the private-hand/public-hand method:

Preparation:
1. Clear off a surface (a garage workbench is great), and put a pair of nitrile gloves and some sort of sanitizing wipe near it
2. Remove your credit card from your wallet and put it and your keys in a pocket easily accessible by your non-dominant hand
3. Put a pair of nitrile gloves, an N95 mask, and some hand sanitizer in your car

At the store:
1. Park your car. Fit your N95 mask and suction test it. Exit the car and put on the nitrile gloves
2. At the entrance of the store, they'll probably have a hand sanitizer dispenser. Use some (on the outside of your gloves)
3. From this point on, do not touch anything of your own, your person, or your clothes with the gloves. Only touch the cart and the groceries
4. Buy a lot of stuff so you don't have to do this too often
5. At checkout, put your groceries on the belt, bag them as they're scanned, and put the bags in the cart
6. Remove the glove from your non dominant hand and put it in a grocery bag
7. Use your non-dominant hand to get your credit card out of your pocket and pay. If you have to touch the card reader, use your gloved dominant hand
8. Don't put the credit card back in your pocket. Put it in a bag of groceries
9. Touching the cart only with your gloved hand, bring it to your car.
10. Use your ungloved hand to unlock the car and open the trunk
11. Use your gloved hand to put the groceries in the car. Leave the trunk open
12. Use your gloved hand to put the cart in the cart return
13. Remove the 2nd glove and put it in a grocery bag. Close the trunk, and get in the car.
14. Use some hand sanitizer
15. Remove N95 mask, touching only the straps at the very back of your head
16. Use some more hand sanitizer, and drive home

At home:
1. Open the garage and any other doors required for a clear path to your designated unpacking table. Open the car trunk.
2. Put on the pair of gloves you left at your unpacking table
3. Carry the grocery bags to the table and set them on the floor
4. One by one, remove items from the grocery bags and wipe them down, or even better, discard outer packaging and wipe down the inner packaging, placing them on the table. Don't put anything un-wiped on the table
5. If something non-perishable isn't needed, you can also just leave it in the bags for ~5 days instead of sterilizing it at this step
6. Make sure you found your credit card in the bags and wiped it down too
7. When everything is done, discard the grocery bags (or if reusable, put them somewhere out of the way to sit for a week+ until you need them again)
8. Remove your gloves
9. Wash hands with soap and water
10. Put groceries away, put your credit card back in your wallet
11. Wash hands again

Finally: sit down on the couch and wonder if all that effort really made a difference.
stoptothink
Posts: 8171
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Safest way to get food

Post by stoptothink »

Sandtrap wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:57 pm
stoptothink wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:45 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:32 pm
stoptothink wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:33 pm
Sandtrap wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:24 pm DW and I are in the risk group so on our rare trips to town, either not together, the protocols when in public are:

N95 masks
Eye shields.....glasses
Long sleeve shirts n hats
Pockets full of disinfectant wipes
Latex surgical gloves

Disinfect everything before entering home, all groceries, mail, etc.
Wash all clothing

We’re ok for now.
Whew!!!

We also have some Tyvek disposable coverall suits from the shop in case of “Livesoft’s” double RBD.....

j🏝
Make sure you remove those gloves properly, otherwise it is likely worse than not wearing them (the surface spreads viruses more efficiently than skin). Even a lot of healthcare professionals do not properly take off gloves.
Hmmm... We've been just peeling them off so they end up inside out, and then disposing of them.
Is there a better way?
(The front entrance of a CVS near us tends to get a small collection of these, as people apparently peel them off and just toss them by the front door. :annoyed )

Thanks.

RM
Yes, pinch at the wrist on one glove and pull it off inside out and then use that to remove other glove. Even though it is literally the most significant step they can take to limit risk for them and their patients, a significant amount of healthcare professionals do it incorrectly out of laziness.
Also, inside out on the second glove by pinching the wrist. First glove is not taken off completely. So, if body fluids, blood, etc, then it will remain inside. . . . as taught by my paramedic son.

j :happy
Yes, I do it several times a day in my lab (well, I did until 3wks ago). Doing it is as natural as walking to me now, apparently writing it out isn't.
Blue456
Posts: 924
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:46 am

Re: Safest way to get food

Post by Blue456 »

Swivelguy wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:08 pm If you want to get food in-person at the store, here's the maximum-caution way I did it, using the private-hand/public-hand method:

Preparation:
1. Clear off a surface (a garage workbench is great), and put a pair of nitrile gloves and some sort of sanitizing wipe near it
2. Remove your credit card from your wallet and put it and your keys in a pocket easily accessible by your non-dominant hand
3. Put a pair of nitrile gloves, an N95 mask, and some hand sanitizer in your car

At the store:
1. Park your car. Fit your N95 mask and suction test it. Exit the car and put on the nitrile gloves
2. At the entrance of the store, they'll probably have a hand sanitizer dispenser. Use some (on the outside of your gloves)
3. From this point on, do not touch anything of your own, your person, or your clothes with the gloves. Only touch the cart and the groceries
4. Buy a lot of stuff so you don't have to do this too often
5. At checkout, put your groceries on the belt, bag them as they're scanned, and put the bags in the cart
6. Remove the glove from your non dominant hand and put it in a grocery bag
7. Use your non-dominant hand to get your credit card out of your pocket and pay. If you have to touch the card reader, use your gloved dominant hand
8. Don't put the credit card back in your pocket. Put it in a bag of groceries
9. Touching the cart only with your gloved hand, bring it to your car.
10. Use your ungloved hand to unlock the car and open the trunk
11. Use your gloved hand to put the groceries in the car. Leave the trunk open
12. Use your gloved hand to put the cart in the cart return
13. Remove the 2nd glove and put it in a grocery bag. Close the trunk, and get in the car.
14. Use some hand sanitizer
15. Remove N95 mask, touching only the straps at the very back of your head
16. Use some more hand sanitizer, and drive home

At home:
1. Open the garage and any other doors required for a clear path to your designated unpacking table. Open the car trunk.
2. Put on the pair of gloves you left at your unpacking table
3. Carry the grocery bags to the table and set them on the floor
4. One by one, remove items from the grocery bags and wipe them down, or even better, discard outer packaging and wipe down the inner packaging, placing them on the table. Don't put anything un-wiped on the table
5. If something non-perishable isn't needed, you can also just leave it in the bags for ~5 days instead of sterilizing it at this step
6. Make sure you found your credit card in the bags and wiped it down too
7. When everything is done, discard the grocery bags (or if reusable, put them somewhere out of the way to sit for a week+ until you need them again)
8. Remove your gloves
9. Wash hands with soap and water
10. Put groceries away, put your credit card back in your wallet
11. Wash hands again

Finally: sit down on the couch and wonder if all that effort really made a difference.
You forgot to clean the N95.
Swivelguy
Posts: 425
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:37 pm

Re: Safest way to get food

Post by Swivelguy »

Ah you're right, I left a couple steps out. I tossed the N95 in the back seat of the car (where nobody will be for a week+) then retrieved it while retrieving the grocery bags, and left it in the bags where it'll stay for a week+ before re-use.
Super Hans
Posts: 142
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:18 pm
Location: Washington, D.C.

Re: Safest way to get food

Post by Super Hans »

I haven't been able to get delivery from Whole Foods/Fresh/Instacart/Peapod, so I've had to brave the grocery store.

My Whole Foods wasn't too crowded near closing. The employees all seem to wear masks now. Some shoppers are really careful about maintaining space, but many are not.

A couple of days ago, I braved Trader Joes for a doomsday stash of frozen food. It seemed empty, but the store filled up when I was inside. The millennials there weren't respectful of my safety circle at all, and the employees didn't wear masks but rather continued carrying on in the manner that's common at TJs. Turns out one employee at this TJs has tested positive for the bug. I guess we'll see how I ride out the next ~12 days.

At the other end of the spectrum, I went in another grocery store at night. It was empty and had self-checkout. My odds of picking up Covid-19 seem low there, but then they didn't have any food I wanted.

Besides these grocery runs, I'm doing great on the social distancing. If you can get food delivered, definitely go for it: stay healthy and avoid the anxiety!
DakotaDoc
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:44 pm

Re: Safest way to get food

Post by DakotaDoc »

Rolyatroba wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:30 pm
livesoft wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:32 pm It probably depends on where you live. Two people who lived next door to my local grocery store died of coronavirus this week.
Livesoft, you are one of my favorite contributors to this site, so I am hoping that you will follow up this reply with some corroborating info that the people who lived next door to your local grocery store contracted the virus from that store.

And even if they did, note you can't become infected by eating food that has coronavirus on it (unless you breathe while swallowing infected food at the same time). It is a respiratory disease that must enter your lungs or sinuses to infect you. So, wherever you get food from, as long as you stick to the normal best practices on this, you won't be at risk.
This is not solely a respiratory disease. It enters cell via ACE2 which is actually present in enterocytes in the gut (thus why you see diarrhea as a symptom). Furthermore, live virus has been cultured from stool. So in theory you could contract this via consumption however fecal oral doesn’t seem to be a big player in transmission. Infection can arise from any mucosal surface such as your mouth, nares, eyes, etc. so I’d clean your food but what do I know.
If you’re old or have other comorbids get it delivered or have someone young just add your groceries to their list and drop it off at your doorstep whenever they make runs. I do this for my neighbors, family members at risk. I mask and wash my hands like crazy.
Rolyatroba
Posts: 235
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:14 pm

Re: Safest way to get food

Post by Rolyatroba »

DakotaDoc wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:22 pm
This is not solely a respiratory disease. It enters cell via ACE2 which is actually present in enterocytes in the gut (thus why you see diarrhea as a symptom). Furthermore, live virus has been cultured from stool. So in theory you could contract this via consumption however fecal oral doesn’t seem to be a big player in transmission. Infection can arise from any mucosal surface such as your mouth, nares, eyes, etc. so I’d clean your food but what do I know.
If you’re old or have other comorbids get it delivered or have someone young just add your groceries to their list and drop it off at your doorstep whenever they make runs. I do this for my neighbors, family members at risk. I mask and wash my hands like crazy.
So now I have to find out how long it lives on a rib-eye?

Kidding aside, since you didn't present an infection rate for an ingestion vector, is it high enough that we should take more than normal precautions when preparing fresh store-bought food?
User avatar
peetsperk
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:02 pm

Re: Safest way to get food

Post by peetsperk »

Please read the notice at the top of the Boglehead site before posting on coronavirus/COVID-19. This topic does not have a financial component as now required.
DakotaDoc
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:44 pm

Re: Safest way to get food

Post by DakotaDoc »

Rolyatroba wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
DakotaDoc wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:22 pm
This is not solely a respiratory disease. It enters cell via ACE2 which is actually present in enterocytes in the gut (thus why you see diarrhea as a symptom). Furthermore, live virus has been cultured from stool. So in theory you could contract this via consumption however fecal oral doesn’t seem to be a big player in transmission. Infection can arise from any mucosal surface such as your mouth, nares, eyes, etc. so I’d clean your food but what do I know.
If you’re old or have other comorbids get it delivered or have someone young just add your groceries to their list and drop it off at your doorstep whenever they make runs. I do this for my neighbors, family members at risk. I mask and wash my hands like crazy.
So now I have to find out how long it lives on a rib-eye?

Kidding aside, since you didn't present an infection rate for an ingestion vector, is it high enough that we should take more than normal precautions when preparing fresh store-bought food?
That’s a good question. I doubt it’s measurable and I don’t take extra precautions in my cooking other than washing which I didn’t do in the past. My humble opinion is that if it’s truly that infectious it’s not worth the precautions as we will all be getting it. I don’t think it is, so I just wash my hands, wash my food, wear a mask, and get groceries for people I don’t want to take care of in the icu. I think if you just sear the ribeye you’d be good :sharebeer
Dottie57
Posts: 9067
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:43 pm
Location: Earth Northern Hemisphere

Re: Safest way to get food

Post by Dottie57 »

Trader Joe wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:57 pm
pablolo wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:28 pm What do you feel is the safest way to get food? Online shopping and pick up in the parking lot with the food delivered on top of the car or delivered to your house or personal shopping in grocery stores?
The safest way to get food for me is the way it has always has been in my whole lifetime. Going to the grocery store. I just went today.
Me too. But over the last weeks I have scoped out the least busy times. I don’t go for senior/ special condition hour - way too busy. I will go Tuesday - Thurs at around 2 p.m. - least busy days at less busy time. Clorox wipes are used to wipe packaging.
livesoft
Posts: 73206
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Safest way to get food

Post by livesoft »

Rolyatroba wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:30 pm
livesoft wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:32 pm It probably depends on where you live. Two people who lived next door to my local grocery store died of coronavirus this week.
Livesoft, you are one of my favorite contributors to this site, so I am hoping that you will follow up this reply with some corroborating info that the people who lived next door to your local grocery store contracted the virus from that store.
What? I DID NOT EVER write that those people contracted the virus from that store. How did you ever come up with that?

I implied that those people may have shopped in that store while they were asymptomatic and others (including myself*) may have been in the store at the same time. I do not know if those people shopped at that store, but it would have been extremely convenient for them to do so. I do know that because of lack of testing neither they themselves nor anyone else knew they had been infected with coronavirus for more than a week before and after they showed symptoms.

*I do know that it is very unlikely that I interacted with these people in the past 2 months because I was out backpacking well beforehand and staying at home since returning.

Added: The patient zero who died infected more than a dozen of their immediate neighbors of which only one had died as of yesterday. I expect more will die in the coming days.
Last edited by livesoft on Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:36 am, edited 3 times in total.
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livesoft
Posts: 73206
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Safest way to get food

Post by livesoft »

timboktoo wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:26 pmMy face just fell through my neck and out through the bottom of my stomach.
Why is that? What do you think people who have contracted coronavirus do while they are asymptomatic and before they show signs of illness (fever, headache)? Why do you think we have social distancing and stay-at-home orders nowadays? Many people were infected well before these practices were put in place. You already know how the virus is transmitted and how many people unwittingly have infected others. We all have learned what "community spread" means.

People who post here will catch coronavirus. That does not mean that ALL people who post here will catch coronavirus, but I would not be surprised if some have already been infected. And please don't jump to the conclusion that I said that posting here will get you infected. I didn't state that.
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JonnyDVM
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Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:51 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Safest way to get food

Post by JonnyDVM »

stoptothink wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:10 pm
Sandtrap wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:57 pm
stoptothink wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:45 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:32 pm
stoptothink wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:33 pm

Make sure you remove those gloves properly, otherwise it is likely worse than not wearing them (the surface spreads viruses more efficiently than skin). Even a lot of healthcare professionals do not properly take off gloves.
Hmmm... We've been just peeling them off so they end up inside out, and then disposing of them.
Is there a better way?
(The front entrance of a CVS near us tends to get a small collection of these, as people apparently peel them off and just toss them by the front door. :annoyed )

Thanks.

RM
Yes, pinch at the wrist on one glove and pull it off inside out and then use that to remove other glove. Even though it is literally the most significant step they can take to limit risk for them and their patients, a significant amount of healthcare professionals do it incorrectly out of laziness.
Also, inside out on the second glove by pinching the wrist. First glove is not taken off completely. So, if body fluids, blood, etc, then it will remain inside. . . . as taught by my paramedic son.

j :happy
Yes, I do it several times a day in my lab (well, I did until 3wks ago). Doing it is as natural as walking to me now, apparently writing it out isn't.
FWIW I’ve had some trouble ordering gloves lately from my distributor. It may not be possible to get disposable gloves for very much longer, especially if you go through many pairs every day.
I’d trade it all for a little more | -C Montgomery Burns
Chuck107
Posts: 489
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:47 pm

Re: Safest way to get food

Post by Chuck107 »

Instacart once per week, they put the stuff in the trunk and I drive away.
Going today in fact.
I have two freezers full of food, however there are things needed that aren't in the freezer.

Hand sanitizer and frequent hand washing, lots of soap and hot water, keeping hands off of and away from face.
Mail/packages gets quarantined in the garage for 3 days.

Biggest issue I have are the locusts hording everything in the stores, no reason for it, self imposed shortages.
Just ordered regular old fashioned "cloth" napkins from Amazon. Might be a new/old practice going forward.
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timboktoo
Posts: 829
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:42 pm

Re: Safest way to get food

Post by timboktoo »

livesoft wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:47 am
timboktoo wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:26 pmMy face just fell through my neck and out through the bottom of my stomach.
Why is that? What do you think people who have contracted coronavirus do while they are asymptomatic and before they show signs of illness (fever, headache)? Why do you think we have social distancing and stay-at-home orders nowadays? Many people were infected well before these practices were put in place. You already know how the virus is transmitted and how many people unwittingly have infected others. We all have learned what "community spread" means.

People who post here will catch coronavirus. That does not mean that ALL people who post here will catch coronavirus, but I would not be surprised if some have already been infected. And please don't jump to the conclusion that I said that posting here will get you infected. I didn't state that.
livesoft,

I don't know anybody who has caught the virus. I certainly don't know anybody who has died from it. I know, cerebrally, that it's deadly. I know, cerebrally, why we're doing what we're doing right now. But you are the first person I (sort of) know who just said they know some people who have died from it. That brings a different emotional reaction, which I'm quite entitled to. The sentence was shocking. Allow me to be shocked.

- Tim
HomeStretch
Posts: 4892
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:06 pm

Re: Safest way to get food

Post by HomeStretch »

Swivelguy wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:08 pm 11. Wash hands again

Finally: sit down on the couch and wonder if all that effort really made a difference.
Before sitting down on the couch, we are:

12. Leaving shoes worn to store in clean up area.
13. Removing clothes worn to store and putting them directly into washing machine.
14. Showering.

Probably overkill but trying to keep kids living with us safe and age 80+ parents/in laws safe as we are in contact with them for cooked food / grocery drop off weekly.
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