Take out food vs COVID 19

[btenny]

Well wife and I are stuck at home and not going out to dinner or lunch or anything fun. We canceled our kid visits. We cancelled baseball stuff. We stocked up on food and essentials last week. We have not gone to the store or anywhere in 4 days and really do not need to go anywhere for a while. We are cooking and goofing off and getting bored.

But I have several good restaurants near me who do takeout. I was thinking about going over and picking up some good Mexican food or some good Italian. Both places have always done a lot of food takeout and have special counters near the entry especially for this purpose. BUT my wife said NO NO. She says if we cannot go and visit her brother and SIL or go to the store we should not drive to get takeout.

Anyone have any real data on the safety of take out food?

[furikake]

As long as the person who prepares your food is not infected, you should be ok. What I've done the last 2 times I went out was that I got home, washed my hands, wiped all the door handles and everything I touched, threw all my clothes in the washer and then went shower right away. I also marked down on my calendar the days I went out and where, just in case if I need to trace back where I've been.

[bluebolt]

Are you or your wife in a high risk group? Much different calculus than if you are not.

[arf30]

There's no way to know if the people who handled and delivered your food are infected, and service industry employees tend to fall into the category of "can't afford to miss work", so I'd be extra cautious.

[btenny]

I am in the over 70 group and have some health issues. So me for sure. My wife is only old. So yes we would like to avoid this stuff....

Good Luck.

[lthenderson]

I would not risk it if I were in your shoes. Like a poster above, restaurant workers tend to need the paycheck and push the envelope of working while sick.

[ResearchMed]

I am in the over 70 group and have some health issues. So me for sure. My wife is only old. So yes we would like to avoid this stuff....

Good Luck.

We are in a similar situation.

We'll do grocery delivery, but with all closed containers, not prepared food.
We can wipe down cans/bottles/etc., but not any food itself.

Perhaps things that need to be *fully* heated/reheated?
(Is there a known temperature range, above which the virus cannot survive?

RM

[TravelGeek]

Whenever I see questions like this (so yes, you are not the only one asking for guidance) I am reminded of Pascal’s Wager.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_wager

Eating in a restaurant is generally more risky than picking up takeout food.
Picking up takeout food is generally more risky than eating home-cooked food.

I don’t think anyone can tell you how much more risky. It obviously depends on various things, including where you are. If you live in Seattle or NYC, the risk of the restaurant staff (or the deliver person if you use a service) being infected is currently likely significantly greater than if you live in rural Idaho.

I am not yet in your age/risk group, and I ordered takeout food via UberEats last Friday. But that will be the last order for a while, I think. We have plenty of supplies and no need to take uncompensated risks

[Watty]

I would have an additional concern that the restaurant might not have enough business to property rotate their food so if I did get takeout I would get things that likely had ingredientes that were less likely to spoil. Something like ground taco meat might have been made several days ago.

[bhsince87]

Well wife and I are stuck at home and not going out to dinner or lunch or anything fun. We canceled our kid visits. We cancelled baseball stuff. We stocked up on food and essentials last week. We have not gone to the store or anywhere in 4 days and really do not need to go anywhere for a while. We are cooking and goofing off and getting bored.

But I have several good restaurants near me who do takeout. I was thinking about going over and picking up some good Mexican food or some good Italian. Both places have always done a lot of food takeout and have special counters near the entry especially for this purpose. BUT my wife said NO NO. She says if we cannot go and visit her brother and SIL or go to the store we should not drive to get takeout.

Anyone have any real data on the safety of take out food?

In our state, take out food and are the only way restaurants can sell food. And they are not allowed to have lines form waiting for pick up.

The main goal of these changes is to increase space between people.

So, on the scale of things, staying home is definealy best, delivery probably next, then take out, then eating inside a restaurant.

You are also probably safe visiting other folks. Just keep a safe distance between yourselves.

[JAZZISCOOL]

I am in the over 70 group and have some health issues. So me for sure. My wife is only old. So yes we would like to avoid this stuff....

Good Luck.

We are in a similar situation.

We'll do grocery delivery, but with all closed containers, not prepared food.
We can wipe down cans/bottles/etc., but not any food itself.

Perhaps things that need to be *fully* heated/reheated?
(Is there a known temperature range, above which the virus cannot survive?

RM

I was also curious about this. If I bought take-out, reheating in the microwave, etc. to kill germs but I decided to wait for the time being. Maybe someone will do a research study on this at some point.

[Barkingsparrow]

I'm torn on this. I have a few favorite local spots that I've frequented for years. They are indie restaurants, not chains, and I am skeptical they can survive a long-term quarantine. Our state has mandated that all restaurants are delivery or take-out only. I'm leaning towards ordering take-out, as I trust them to take all measures possible to ensure the safety of their meals.

[seawolf21]

Are you or your wife in a high risk group? Much different calculus than if you are not.

Agreed.

I would not risk it if I were in your shoes. Like a poster above, restaurant workers tend to need the paycheck and push the envelope of working while sick.

Just a reminder that COVID-19 can be passed even if carrier is not showing symptoms and therefore don't know they are infected as they are not sick.

Heck you mail carrier can be a carrier and not be sick. The stock person at the grocery store can be carrier and not be sick.

Even before COVID-19, you were at risk at other food borne illness which could be critical to those will compromised immune systems.

[Jeff Albertson]

For me, it's not worth the risk. However, here's another opinion, based on info from the European Food Safety Authority:
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/ ... ronavirus/

[celia]

I agree with the risk associated with low-paid workers who can’t afford to stay home when sick. But would you/ spouse object to the ‘meal kits’ that are delivered with just the right amount of each ingredient? You provide the rest of the labor after the box leaves the ‘packing facility’.

That’s what I’m thinking of doing for some variety.

PS. The thread title is ‘terrible’. It sounds like a choice between fast food OR getting sick. In that case, I’d choose fast food any day

[JimMolony]

No way would I grab take out or delivery. Not risking the person preparing my food being infected. This makes no sense to me to take this risk. We are relatively young, healthy and fitness fanatics - but self-quarantining.

My intent of the linked article is not to cause panic, but please look at the data. It would be difficult for me to understand why anyone would risk contact with others during the infectious time in the US.

Be safe

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavi ... d3d9cd99ca

[adamthesmythe]

I am avoiding restaurants for now, takeout or not. I even avoid some things in the grocery, like the olive bar. So far I have been getting meat and fish from the counter, figuring that I'm going to cook it myself so that has a good chance of killing bugs.

This would be a great time to try cooking things at home that are time-intensive.

[bgf]

i do not think the virus would survive the amount of time spent in a steaming hot take out box. apparently, heat and humidity (on the scale of weather) substantially hinder transmission.

or just order soup.

https://ssrn.com/abstract=3551767

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2893471/

[ram]

Our hospital cafeteria has made changes in food delivery.
Each item of food is in a shrink wrapped disposable paper container.(salad, bread, piece of cake). Hot soup is served in a single use paper cup by a server. Multiple people are not touching the ladle. Stainless steel "silverware" is gone. Now we have individually wrapped plastic "silverware"

[knpstr]

We are in a similar situation.

We'll do grocery delivery, but with all closed containers, not prepared food.
We can wipe down cans/bottles/etc., but not any food itself.

Perhaps things that need to be *fully* heated/reheated?
(Is there a known temperature range, above which the virus cannot survive?

RM

I was also curious about this. If I bought take-out, reheating in the microwave, etc. to kill germs but I decided to wait for the time being. Maybe someone will do a research study on this at some point.

Microwaved McDonalds?! Yuck
I prefer fresh McDonalds.

[TravelGeek]

I was also curious about this. If I bought take-out, reheating in the microwave, etc. to kill germs but I decided to wait for the time being. Maybe someone will do a research study on this at some point.

Here is a quora thread that might be helpful. (I haven’t read it, but it was cited in one of the FlyerTalk threads when the same question came up yesterday)

https://www.quora.com/Do-microwaves-kil ... re-viruses

[UpperNwGuy]

Both Italian food and Mexican food are relatively easy to cook at home. If you need a recipe, google it. Your wife is correct. You should not get the takeout food.

[JAZZISCOOL]

I was also curious about this. If I bought take-out, reheating in the microwave, etc. to kill germs but I decided to wait for the time being. Maybe someone will do a research study on this at some point.

Here is a quora thread that might be helpful. (I haven’t read it, but it was cited in one of the FlyerTalk threads when the same question came up yesterday)

https://www.quora.com/Do-microwaves-kil ... re-viruses

Thanks! I found this which gives me some pause:


Robert F. Schiffmann, Microwave Scientist

Answered August 12, 2015 · Author has 281 answers and 936.4k answer views
Originally Answered: Do microwaves kill viruses?

No! Microwaves by themselves can't kill viruses or bacteria - they are simply too weak - about 30,000 to 50,000 weaker, in quantum energy, than ordinary light. It is the heat they generate in foods, water, etc. that kills microorganisms.

[bgf]

I was also curious about this. If I bought take-out, reheating in the microwave, etc. to kill germs but I decided to wait for the time being. Maybe someone will do a research study on this at some point.

Here is a quora thread that might be helpful. (I haven’t read it, but it was cited in one of the FlyerTalk threads when the same question came up yesterday)

https://www.quora.com/Do-microwaves-kil ... re-viruses

Thanks! I found this which gives me some pause:


Robert F. Schiffmann, Microwave Scientist

Answered August 12, 2015 · Author has 281 answers and 936.4k answer views
Originally Answered: Do microwaves kill viruses?

No! Microwaves by themselves can't kill viruses or bacteria - they are simply too weak - about 30,000 to 50,000 weaker, in quantum energy, than ordinary light. It is the heat they generate in foods, water, etc. that kills microorganisms.

why does that give you pause? it says the heat kills it.

also, no one seems to mention the effect of the saliva in our mouths and acid in our stomachs.

i think the likeliest transmission by far is breathing in the virus through your nasal passages or touching your nose/eyes.

[OnTrack]

From CDC website: "... Currently there is no evidence to support transmission of COVID-19 associated with food. ..."
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html

[jabberwockOG]

I would not risk it if I were in your shoes. Like a poster above, restaurant workers tend to need the paycheck and push the envelope of working while sick.

Agree. Stay home.

And please everybody try to absorb this fact - it does not matter how old you are, STAY HOME. Everybody needs to practice social distancing. If younger people do not practice strict social distancing along with everyone else, the virus will be around for months longer because there will always be some people infected and spreading it.

Everyone needs to stay inside, regardless of age, unless absolutely necessary, and we all need to practice social distancing for 2-3 weeks. Until that happens this pandemic will likely go on for many months.

[Kennedy]

1) I walked into a franchised bagel shop the other day, and the employee was sucking something (?food) off three of her fingers.

2) I went to a local sandwich shop today, and the employee handed me a water cup by gripping the top of the cup (where one's lips would go on the rim) flat against her palm.

Imagine what they're doing when you're not looking.

[JAZZISCOOL]

why does that give you pause? it says the heat kills it.

also, no one seems to mention the effect of the saliva in our mouths and acid in our stomachs.

i think the likeliest transmission by far is breathing in the virus through your nasal passages or touching your nose/eyes.

What if the virus is on the packaging which doesn't heat up as much as the food itself?

Also, my microwave is smaller so isn't that strong. It seems easier to do my own cooking vs. taking a chance. Maybe if I brought something home that I could bake in a regular oven for a while; that might work.

Good point about eating though (acid). I've read the biggest areas of concern are mucous membranes as you mentioned.

[terran]

Let's see... do I want to eat food prepared by someone who can't afford to take a day off if they get sick? No thanks.

[jabberwockOG]

Let's see... do I want to eat food prepared by someone who can't afford to take a day off if they get sick? No thanks.

Exactly.

[TravelGeek]

2) I went to a local sandwich shop today, and the employee handed me a water cup by gripping the top of the cup (where one's lips would go on the rim) flat against her palm.

Standard way at Starbucks appears to be for the baristas to put the lid on drinks and push on it with their fingers where the mouth opening is.

[GeoffD]

On the microwave thing, I doubt most people would nuke takeout food long enough to create the temperature that would kill a virus.


I would think takeout pizza reheated in a 425 oven would be fine.

We’re mostly sticking to cooked homemade food. Blueberries are the only thing in the fridge where it’s merely washed.

[stlutz]

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ly/608008/

[Article from the Atlantic about ordering in or cooking during the pandemic. Moderator Misenplace]

[dboeger1]

Not to be too doom and gloom, but I would think anyone your age would want to stay home to the extent possible. There doesn't seem to be definitive agreement on the extent to which the virus is age-sensitive, but it's clear from most of the data that it is age-sensitive to a fairly high degree. Some older populations have developed ARDS in percentages above 15%, and some data indicates that the death rate can be as high as around 50% among those elderly who develop ARDS. If you have an existing respiratory syndrome, you're playing with fire. And remember, these are figures now. We won't know the full extent of it until it's over (if it ever is). Heck, my figures could be wrong, as I'm a nobody recalling them from memory in an article I read. But they're high nonetheless.

I'm not saying the chance of you getting sick if you go out is 50%. It's probably quite low. But I think it would really suck to get sick over takeout food when you can cook at home, and end up possibly dying over it. I know the same can be said of simply walking outside or doing any number of daily life things, but there's something particularly sinister and beyond our control about a silent killer virus. I would absolutely not want my grandparents out and about, so I'll suggest the same for you, haha. You'd possibly be going out multiple times for meals over an extended period of time, each trip being an opportunity to get sick, and if you're in contact with anyone else your age, you're putting them at severe risk as well.

[dboeger1]

2) I went to a local sandwich shop today, and the employee handed me a water cup by gripping the top of the cup (where one's lips would go on the rim) flat against her palm.

Standard way at Starbucks appears to be for the baristas to put the lid on drinks and push on it with their fingers where the mouth opening is.

Do they lick the spills off the side as well?

[Ron]

I have and will continue to order take out from our normal sit in restaurants.

Regardless of the prejudiced view of a lot of folks on this thread about the "quality" of folks in the service industry, I'll continue to support them as I'm allowed to do, by current standards. They already have a tough go, IMHO. Why make it worse.

I have to ask, do you think that the folks that prepare your meal and serve it (regardless of at the table or at the curb) have any less standards in meal prep/delivery than if it were "normal" times? Or do you think management hire new people of a lower "caliber" to prepare your meal during these stressful times and deliver it to your car rather than to your table?

Hey, the folks need the work. If they didn't, they would be sitting here complaining about the quality of folks in the service industry.

- Ron

[Nowizard]

Call and ask what they are doing. Locally, food preparers are wearing gloves, will deliver while knocking on the door and watching from the car to see you get the food, sell GC on-line so there is no money exchange, etc. We are definitely not going to eat out or go into a restaurant to pick up food, but we will order. They will also bring it to your car if preferred locally.
Tim

[JAZZISCOOL]

On the microwave thing, I doubt most people would nuke takeout food long enough to create the temperature that would kill a virus.


I would think takeout pizza reheated in a 425 oven would be fine.

We’re mostly sticking to cooked homemade food. Blueberries are the only thing in the fridge where it’s merely washed.

Thanks. I was thinking pizza might be an option.

[jabberwockOG]

I have and will continue to order take out from our normal sit in restaurants.

Regardless of the prejudiced view of a lot of folks on this thread about the "quality" of folks in the service industry, I'll continue to support them as I'm allowed to do, by current standards. They already have a tough go, IMHO. Why make it worse.

I have to ask, do you think that the folks that prepare your meal and serve it (regardless of at the table or at the curb) have any less standards in meal prep/delivery than if it were "normal" times? Or do you think management hire new people of a lower "caliber" to prepare your meal during these stressful times and deliver it to your car rather than to your table?

Hey, the folks need the work. If they didn't, they would be sitting here complaining about the quality of folks in the service industry.

- Ron

And you, and others that refuse to stay home except for emergencies for 2-3 weeks, will likely prolong their pain for many months. Everybody needs to stay home including restaurant workers. We could send them all on luxury all expense paid stay-vacations for far less than the cost of prolonging this pandemic.

[Sandtrap]

I am in the over 70 group and have some health issues. So me for sure. My wife is only old. So yes we would like to avoid this stuff....

Good Luck.

+1
Given your age and conditions, I think there's no such thing as being "over cautious".

DW and I have cancelled trips, family getogethers (many work in healthcare!), and minimizing grandkid watching.
Boxes coming in thru the mail are wiped down outside and opened with gloves on. (who knows if someone in the delivery chain sneezed on them an hour before?

IMHO: there are too many people touching the plate, the food, the condiments, the slize of french bred, the bag, in your takeout order of food. If delivered, then also the delivery guy sneezing on it.

** Attitudes toward health risks change greatly with age and maturity and life experiences.

Be careful.
(fellow grandparent)
j

[researcher]

Everyone needs to stay inside, regardless of age, unless absolutely necessary...

This is a huge overreaction. It is not a zombie apocalypse. It is perfectly OK to go outside!

[carolinaman]

We get prepared foods from grocery store and do takeout a lot. This thread discusses a big concern of mine as me and DW are over 70 and have health issues. There does not seem to be any definitive info about virus spreading from food, based upon my read of the links in this thread.

I get prepared soup from grocery store 2 or 3 times a week. The last one I got I brought it to a boil in the microwave before eating. Will that kill viruses?

We are definitely not getting anything from buffets or salad bar. But still may use some more trustworthy restaurants for takeout, but as virus spreads may have to curtail that. Frozen foods and foods cooked at home seem safest.

[nascar090210]

2) I went to a local sandwich shop today, and the employee handed me a water cup by gripping the top of the cup (where one's lips would go on the rim) flat against her palm.

Standard way at Starbucks appears to be for the baristas to put the lid on drinks and push on it with their fingers where the mouth opening is.

Do they lick the spills off the side as well?

Good one! Still chuckling about it

[Ron]

And you, and others that refuse to stay home except for emergencies for 2-3 weeks, will likely prolong their pain for many months. Everybody needs to stay home including restaurant workers. We could send them all on luxury all expense paid stay-vacations for far less than the cost of prolonging this pandemic.

It's one thing to be aware of the situation and take the proper precautions; it's another to be in a completely panic mode.

My wife/me are in our 70's. We're well aware of the situation at hand and currently don't take (what we consider) risky chances. We've given up going to church, to exercise classes, to movies, and to all other public events where many folks are in close quarters.

However, we each still volunteer several times a week delivering meals to elderly (sometimes younger than us) and the disabled via our local Meals on Wheels organization Without that lifeline, many of our "customers" would cease to function, since often we're the only one they see on a daily basis and we're there to ensure that they are still alive (seriously).

We have moved our meal pickups from a church basement to having everything in the parking lot (plenty of distance between all the volunteers). We also have copious use of hand sanitizers along with using doggie dropping bags as substitute gloves, as required. Not as good as washing hands between deliveries (don't have a bathroom in my SUV), but still well within guidance given. BTW, we also take our own temperature several times a day to ensure we don't have and existing problem. The only challenge we do have is that our sneezing may upset some folks (we live in one of the highest pollen areas of the country), but sneezing is not an indicator of the virus.

Do we put ourselves at risk by our volunteer work? Quite possibly. However, we do think we provide a critical service to a portion of our community that really needs it. If we don't do it, who will?

You are lucky/blessed if you can sit at home a few weeks without repercussions to your lifestyle. Not everybody has that option.

- Ron

[HomeStretch]

Our household stopped eating out several weeks ago. Not even an option as restaurants and bars statewide were closed to eat-in as of yesterday. We also aren’t doing curbside pickup or delivery for now. Just not comfortable with the possibility of virus contamination on containers, etc. We limited deliveries after NPR’s story last summer that referenced survey results that 1 in 4 delivery people admitted to eating customers’ deliveries.

[M.Lee]

I've been reading a lot, but have not yet come across anything that says the covid-19 virus can live inside food. If one of you have, please share the link. It may be on a carboard box (like for pizza), but not transferred to the pizza itself. I don't know about paper bags. But really, even in the super market, you are dealing with bags, boxes, glass, etc. Therefore, as far as this virus is concerned, I don't think it is any more harmful to get take out than go grocery shopping. That said, you may pick up ecoli and other things from unsanitary conditions.

[smitcat]

And you, and others that refuse to stay home except for emergencies for 2-3 weeks, will likely prolong their pain for many months. Everybody needs to stay home including restaurant workers. We could send them all on luxury all expense paid stay-vacations for far less than the cost of prolonging this pandemic.

It's one thing to be aware of the situation and take the proper precautions; it's another to be in a completely panic mode.

My wife/me are in our 70's. We're well aware of the situation at hand and currently don't take (what we consider) risky chances. We've given up going to church, to exercise classes, to movies, and to all other public events where many folks are in close quarters.

However, we each still volunteer several times a week delivering meals to elderly (sometimes younger than us) and the disabled via our local Meals on Wheels organization Without that lifeline, many of our "customers" would cease to function, since often we're the only one they see on a daily basis and we're there to ensure that they are still alive (seriously).

We have moved our meal pickups from a church basement to having everything in the parking lot (plenty of distance between all the volunteers). We also have copious use of hand sanitizers along with using doggie dropping bags as substitute gloves, as required. Not as good as washing hands between deliveries (don't have a bathroom in my SUV), but still well within guidance given. BTW, we also take our own temperature several times a day to ensure we don't have and existing problem. The only challenge we do have is that our sneezing may upset some folks (we live in one of the highest pollen areas of the country), but sneezing is not an indicator of the virus.

Do we put ourselves at risk by our volunteer work? Quite possibly. However, we do think we provide a critical service to a portion of our community that really needs it. If we don't do it, who will?

You are lucky/blessed if you can sit at home a few weeks without repercussions to your lifestyle. Not everybody has that option.

- Ron

"Not as good as washing hands between deliveries (don't have a bathroom in my SUV), but still well within guidance given. BTW, we also take our own temperature several times a day to ensure we don't have and existing problem."
There is an adequate amount of data available to know that the virus can be transmitted before any symptoms are seen....
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/cor ... k-symptoms

[Dottie57]

Everyone needs to stay inside, regardless of age, unless absolutely necessary...

This is a huge overreaction. It is not a zombie apocalypse. It is perfectly OK to go outside!

Good for mental and physical health. Start cleaning up the yard. Go for a walk.

[smitcat]

I've been reading a lot, but have not yet come across anything that says the covid-19 virus can live inside food. If one of you have, please share the link. It may be on a carboard box (like for pizza), but not transferred to the pizza itself. I don't know about paper bags. But really, even in the super market, you are dealing with bags, boxes, glass, etc. Therefore, as far as this virus is concerned, I don't think it is any more harmful to get take out than go grocery shopping. That said, you may pick up ecoli and other things from unsanitary conditions.

"I've been reading a lot, but have not yet come across anything that says the covid-19 virus can live inside food."
I am not sure what you mean by "inside food".
There is enough data to know that the virus can survive on many surfaces for periods of time. If a food preparer is infected and has touched and/or contaminated parts of the containers or the food itself it could be transmitted. Is that what you are asking?

[M.Lee]

I've been reading a lot, but have not yet come across anything that says the covid-19 virus can live inside food. If one of you have, please share the link. It may be on a carboard box (like for pizza), but not transferred to the pizza itself. I don't know about paper bags. But really, even in the super market, you are dealing with bags, boxes, glass, etc. Therefore, as far as this virus is concerned, I don't think it is any more harmful to get take out than go grocery shopping. That said, you may pick up ecoli and other things from unsanitary conditions.

"I've been reading a lot, but have not yet come across anything that says the covid-19 virus can live inside food."
I am not sure what you mean by "inside food".
There is enough data to know that the virus can survive on many surfaces for periods of time. If a food preparer is infected and has touched and/or contaminated parts of the containers or the food itself it could be transmitted. Is that what you are asking?

No, I am saying (really asking) that if an infected person even sneezed on the food, it can't be transferred by eating the food. If you think it can be, I'd like to see the source of the information. It can be transferred to hard surfaces, clothing, etc, but i have not heard food. If it can be in food, then it will be everywhere. Packaged bread...anything.