Are you still going to the gym ...

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legio XX
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by legio XX »

Retired1809 wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:37 pm This week I didn't go as often. Only two days instead of my usual five. I'm 75 y/o. But today my 80 y/o brother told me that he hadn't missed a day because he wanted to "stay in shape" to ward off the caronovirus or do better if he contracted it. ...
Ditto. Age 76 here and actually went more often than usual this week because my classes have been moved online. The classes are a bit less crowded although the grey-haired contingent seems as-usual. I'm appropriately sore and being careful about where I use the bragging rights so no one thinks I'm coming down with anything. Wash hands, wipe down everything, keep a prudent distance - don't see any reason to turn myself into a depressed recluse.
Superleaf444
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by Superleaf444 »

I'm fairly young and decided against going to the gym. TBH I've become basically become a hermit, because it is the best way I can personally can stop the spread to the rest of society.

I'm in DC now for work and haven't left my room. Funny that I traveled her to only telecommute. I go back to NYC on Saturday and plan to making a grocery run, but overall avoiding to leave my apartment.

It is a bit of a shame though, because my roommate teachers classes at gyms and I know she is hurting.
Lynette
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by Lynette »

I went to the gym this morning - great place - far few people there. They are making an effort to keep the place clean - my theory one has to be careful but not stop living. I have no underlying medical conditions despite being in my mid seventies. We keep our distance from one another and wipe down everything. I have a great buddy friend who is 90. It is a little difficult keeping a distance from him and talking as he is quite deaf. But I enjoy talking to him each morning. He is a super guy.
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nisiprius
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by nisiprius »

My wife intends to, assuming that the gym she goes to stays. Our reasoning is that the CDC says
The virus is thought to spread mainly from person-to-person
  • Between people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet).
  • Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes
and
It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes, but this is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads.
Other sources define "close" contact as within six feet for a "long" period of time. So we think being in a theatre audience, lecture hall, or airplane is "close contact." But at a gym, where they've always had hand sanitizer and disinfectant wipes right next to the machines, and the machines are more than six feet apart, probably not. Also, people are not thought to be contagious when they are not showing symptoms, the primary symptoms are fever and a cough, and someone in a gym is going to be taking deep breaths which is likely to make them cough obviously.... plus some people are of course nutty but most people really wouldn't feel like working out when running a high fever.

In other words, if the idea is to practice "social distancing," avoiding gyms is not high on the priority list. Meanwhile, hoping to avoid the virus entirely might be futile; some well-credentialed epidemiologists thinkit's very likely we'll get the coronavirus eventually, like 40-70%. But maybe only 20% of those will get severe cases 8-14%.

Fortunately (?) most of the "social distancing" decisions are being made for us, as Walt Disney World, Broadway theaters, cruise ships, beloved public celebrations, and the bingo game at the local Catholic church are being suspended.
Last edited by nisiprius on Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Go Blue 99
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by Go Blue 99 »

I'm avoiding the gym. I'm forced to telecommute for the rest of the month, so I told my wife we'll have to go on some long walks at lunch to get some exercise.
RubyTuesday
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by RubyTuesday »

nisiprius wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:05 am Also, people are not thought to be contagious when they are not showing symptoms
Don’t believe that is accurate.
From Harvard Medschool’s resource page:

https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases ... rce-center
When are people most contagious?

People are thought to be most contagious when they are most symptomatic. However, there have been reports of coronavirus spreading before people show symptoms. Preliminary research of individuals who developed mild disease also suggests that they could be contagious early in the course of their illness, even before they have experienced symptoms or are only experiencing mild symptoms.
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OffGridder
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by OffGridder »

I am age 62 with underlying condition. I just put my gym membership on hold until the end of April. I normally workout 5x per week primarily the stair climber and Peleton bike. Also weights and resistance 3x per week. The 20 minutes in the jacuzzi and sauna at the end my workout was a nice perk.

It is Spring time now. I live in a beautiful mountainous area. Trading in the stair climber with 4-5 mile hikes with 750-1000 ft elevation gain. Also lots of bike trails. Weight training I can do at home
Last edited by OffGridder on Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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CoastalWinds
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by CoastalWinds »

My main concern with the gym is all the heavy breathing what with everyone doing cardio. Lots of airborne particles floating around.
supalong52
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by supalong52 »

I'm no longer going to the gym. The grunters spew all their germs over the equipment.
Mako52
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by Mako52 »

It may be overboard, but wearing Nitrile gloves while lifting, and not sitting/laying on any equipment.

Lots of people are going to look hard at that expensive Lifetime Fitness membership, but probably not the $10 Planet Fitness.
snowox
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by snowox »

No.. I started walking 90 minutes a day and doing other things instead
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Ramjet
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by Ramjet »

Worked out at home yesterday for this very reason :|
rich126
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by rich126 »

I think the problem with the gym is that people sweat and isn't the virus transmitted by water droplets in your sneeze, cough, sweat? (I think so.)

Might be better to go for a long walk or jog especially if you are older or have some health issues.
DiploInvestor
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by DiploInvestor »

Sandtrap wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:10 pm
tiburblium wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:12 pm Yes, the gym is in my basement
+1
Yes
My gym is in my basement as well.
j :happy
+2
Home gym here as well. No waiting for equipment, no monthly fees, and I never miss a workout. Best investment in my health I ever made was a squat rack, weights, a rowing machine, and good running shoes.
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TigerNest
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by TigerNest »

Definitely not.

This virus is spreading extremely quickly. It may not spread through sweat, but all it takes is one person to cough or wipe their nose/face then grab a barbell.

We left New York City this week for the time being to stay with family in the suburbs, pulled our kids out of daycare, and are working from home while the situation develops. We'll run/cycle outdoors, but we're staying away from all crowds. It's important not to panic, but it's also important not to underreact. We are all prone to status quo bias, and the world is no longer status quo.
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JonnyDVM
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by JonnyDVM »

I ran today instead of LA fitness. Gyms are going to be the first businesses forced to shut down if we get to that point. If you don’t think a busy gym is a good place to catch a virus, you are wrong. There’s no room for argument. I’m just going to say that you are wrong and leave it at that.
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LadyIJ
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by LadyIJ »

sd323232 wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:16 pm how is being at gym different from being at work? the only way to avoid getting sick is to completely isolate yourself and stay at home. Otherwise u have same chance to get sick work or gym.
Yes, because you can hand sanitize all day, but if someone sneezes within 6' of you, you can get the virus.
LadyIJ
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by LadyIJ »

LadyIJ wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:15 pm
sd323232 wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:16 pm how is being at gym different from being at work? the only way to avoid getting sick is to completely isolate yourself and stay at home. Otherwise u have same chance to get sick work or gym.
Yes, because you can hand sanitize all day, but if someone sneezes within 6' of you, you can get the virus.

We put of health club membership on freeze (no fees) for 4 months.
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sk2101
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by sk2101 »

No, only running/biking outdoors for me until this is over.
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puc_ytpme
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by puc_ytpme »

I am still going to the gym 5 days a week. I hear the media, the plethora of experts, but the cat is already out of the bag. I am 36 now & back in 2009 I had H1N1/swine flu which absolutely leveled me. From the information that we do have on COVID-19, the symptoms don’t appear to be in the same league as the swine flu.

I guess the biggest question one should ask is, do I have multiple underlying health conditions?

At the present, I do not. I do not believe it would be wise for me to let the media manipulate how I go about day to day life. Life is short enough as it is.

Stay sane
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Prudence
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by Prudence »

I'm 73 and live in the DC metro area. I go to the gym every day but I decided to stop starting today. For a few weeks, I can replace the cardio at the gym with walking and running in my neighborhood. Today I will go to Dicks and buy a couple of dumb bells for use at home until it is safe to go back to the gym. The one thing I can't figure out is how to exercise certain muscles (at home) that I exercise in the gym with these exercises: pulldowns, low rowing and high rowing.
quantAndHold
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by quantAndHold »

Last night I read that well researched article that guy wrote on medium that explains the spread rate of the virus (linked to in the other coronavirus threads). We called this morning and put our gym membership on hold. Even if I think I might not get it or if I might have a mild case, it’s an extremely busy gym with a lot of older folks, and I don’t want to be the one that spreads it to them.

We have a power rack in the basement, but no weight plates (long story). I ordered some weight plates on Amazon, and we’ll work out there for the duration.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.
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lj3jim
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by lj3jim »

I'm in the Seattle area and I'm also in the "over 60" risk category. I consulted with my doctor, and he recommended that I stay away from the gym (our local YMCA) as well as church and other public gatherings. Walking the dog, hiking, and other outdoor activities away from crowds are still ok. I might even knock the dust off our elliptical machine in the garage.
riots_rus
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by riots_rus »

OpenMinded1 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:26 am
riots_rus wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:55 pm Yes, I also go to work, shop at the store, and pick my kids of from daycare. I'm not letting the media and the current frenzy regarding this virus control my life. I prepare for things to go bad (like many of you), I save money, keep my body in good shape, and always have three months of food and water ready to go. Most people don't plan ahead in the slightest, not surprised they're panicking.
Honestly, I'm just curious. Not trying to be snarky or anything. I keep hearing about people stocking up on water. Is this something you are doing specifically because of coronavirus, or is this just something you generally do for some reason? Why are you stocking up on water?

We drink filtered water out of the tap. Gravity carries it to us, so we still get it even if there is a local power outage. Every so often - maybe once in 15 years - it has become contaminated some how and we get a boil water advisory.
Not a snarky question, thanks for asking. I've been a bit of a prepper (not like the ones you see on TV...well, at least I don't think I'm at that level lol) for a few years now. I keep a few 55 gallon water safe drums filled with water and a little bit of bleach in my basement. The chances of me having to use it are low I admit, but I'm able to keep them stocked and ready to go without issue and it provides me with peace of mind. What motivated me initially was a nutnfancy video on youtube where I thought he did a good job explaining why its important to keep clean water on hand, and how to do it.

Off topic, my sister was (jokingly) making fun of me last month about all the toilet paper and 5 gallon buckets of rice I keep (in mylar bags) stocked at all times. Guess who texts me yesterday she's running low on toilet paper, and cannot find any as all the stores are sold out! Of course I'll help her out. I think if any good comes from this, maybe people will be motivated to prepare more for what could happen.

Even further off topic, what happens when panic really sets in and people don't have access to the necessities? Rely on the government to take care of you? No thanks. Fortunately where I live I'm able to make provisions for home and self defense. Oh, sis also gives me crap about that. Fortunately we're ready for that too, I genuinely hope that's a bridge we never have to cross.
jdb
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by jdb »

My gym is gardening and horticulture in back yard. Today spent several hours manual labor getting rid of unwanted bromeliads and laying mulch. Can’t get infected from the hummingbirds and cardinals and butterflies which keep me company. Have not been to my other gym with exercise equipment yet this year, and they may not see me for long time. Good luck.
Lynette
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by Lynette »

I have decided to continue going to my gym as I feel it is well-managed and rarely over-crowded. It has a swimming pool, tennis courts, exercise equipment, free classes in yoga, pilates etc. I get a free bagel and coffee each morning. I pay the senior rate of about $100 per month. In the past it got a little crowded at times - e.g. Saturday mornings. The attendance appears to have dropped by at least 50% so it is easy to stay a reasonable distance from everyone. It has free towels and now I notice a whole contingent of cleaners going around with cleaning material. This gym is only five minutes from my house. So my decision is based on the type of gym I attend. Also everything else is cancelled, church, my gardening classes, schools until April 5 etc. So I still have friends with whom to interact. I enjoy my Spanish lessons on Skype with my teacher in Mexico City and I am studying my gardening books. Hopefully this required isolation will abate soon. If not, I will work in my garden! It needs a lot of work but the ground is still too wet to do anything.
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blueblock
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by blueblock »

I went Mon and Wed, skipped today. I'm thinking of stopping for two weeks but am taking the weekend to decide.
RJC
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by RJC »

Today I decided to set up my home gym again. Why take the unnecessary risk?

High contact areas such as barbell and machine handles can pose a problem.
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Stinky
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by Stinky »

Stinky wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:26 pm Of course. Every morning.
Attendance at my gym is down the last couple of mornings.

Will keep watching the situation.
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mrspock
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by mrspock »

Superleaf444 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:58 am I'm fairly young and decided against going to the gym. TBH I've become basically become a hermit, because it is the best way I can personally can stop the spread to the rest of society.
...
While I was originally basically going about my life as I’m in an extremely low risk group, I evolved to this thinking. There’s something of a Societal trade here, I will do my part to avoid contact with people to save people’s parents and grand parents where I live. I hope others do the same for where my parents live, even though their elderly loved ones might not be in the city/state/country.

The Italian doctors words really hit home... one generation could effectively “exterminate“ (his words) another if we don’t all watch out for one another. We need to have empathy for these folks... many of whom fought for our freedoms in wars and such.

I don’t think we need to be total hermits, but be sensible and avoid crowded places, and use social distancing.
stoptothink
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by stoptothink »

mrspock wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:16 pm
Superleaf444 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:58 am I'm fairly young and decided against going to the gym. TBH I've become basically become a hermit, because it is the best way I can personally can stop the spread to the rest of society.
...

The Italian doctors words really hit home... one generation could effectively “exterminate“ (his words) another if we don’t all watch out for one another. We need to have empathy for these folks... many of whom fought for our freedoms in wars and such.
Even if half the world's population ultimately contracts the virus and the mortality rate is higher than anybody has yet reported, I would hardly characterize the absolute worst case scenario as "extermination". A lot of people are going to die, and that is absolutely heartbreaking and worth doing whatever we can right now to limit the carnage, but this type of hyperbole is not doing anybody any good.
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jabberwockOG
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by jabberwockOG »

I spend 8-10 hours a week at our community rec center, composed mostly of racquet sports, also ping pong, volleyball, and weights. They just announced gym will lose for 3 days for deep cleaning. I will likely stay out till end of March.
Last edited by jabberwockOG on Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jebmke
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by jebmke »

I just got back from the gym. Fewer people. Well stocked sanitizing spray to clean equipment. Lower population density than our tax prep center yesterday.
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Caduceus
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by Caduceus »

I don't think gyms have that large crowds - at least not the ones I've seen anyway. In my area, some of the biggest crowds are in churches, so people have been encouraged to temporarily suspend church services. The local Catholic church has voluntarily suspended services for the forseeable future, but some other more selfish religious groups are continuing with them. In places like Korea and Singapore, some of the largest clusters have all been in churches.
Colorado13
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by Colorado13 »

My gym has closed through March 31 and that closure may be extended. Outdoor and basement/treadmill workouts will begin tomorrow. I tend to push myself a bit harder at the gym than when I workout outside of the gym, so I need to ensure I keep my intensity reasonably high so that I can return to normal workouts when the gym reopens.
ionball
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by ionball »

My favorite community gym just announced closure beginning March 16 until further notice. Members will not be charged during the disruption.
UpperNwGuy
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by UpperNwGuy »

I still go. About three times a week.
jimbok_mb
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by jimbok_mb »

My gym/fitness center in Redondo Beach, CA just sent out an email stating they are closed from March 14th through the end of April. So nope, won't be going and bummed about it. Have some dumb bells in the garage and may install TRX straps.
jcar
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by jcar »

I swim 5 days a week. Minimal contact with any patrons as I go at the least busy time. I shower afterwards. Any danger from the pool water ? Thanks
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Cubicle
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by Cubicle »

I thought about stopping my gym routine because of the virus. Then I stubbed my toe on the weight set in my "home gym". Punishment for even thinking about it...
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dru808
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by dru808 »

Yup, my garage gym. Im not worried about corona, I’d me more worried about the flu if I was susceptible to getting sick.
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amp
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by amp »

Management closed the gym in my apartment building out of an "abundance of caution". I think instead I'll try to use the building staircases for my morning cardio. We also lost the free coffee machine so I need to go back to making my own.
Swansea
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by Swansea »

My gym was sparsely attended the last two days. No visible signs than any extra cleaning, etc is going on.
With only 3 or so confirmed cases in my county of a million people, I feel ok going through my usual routine
Housedoc
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by Housedoc »

Going daily. Lather up with sanitizer a few extra times during workout. Sparse attendance so that is better for me!
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dodecahedron
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by dodecahedron »

RubyTuesday wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:49 am
nisiprius wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:05 am Also, people are not thought to be contagious when they are not showing symptoms
Don’t believe that is accurate.
From Harvard Medschool’s resource page:

https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases ... rce-center
When are people most contagious?

People are thought to be most contagious when they are most symptomatic. However, there have been reports of coronavirus spreading before people show symptoms. Preliminary research of individuals who developed mild disease also suggests that they could be contagious early in the course of their illness, even before they have experienced symptoms or are only experiencing mild symptoms.
A bunch of healthy adults in their 20s, 30s, and 40s, one of whom I know quite well, were at a big multiday gathering in a bunch of adjacent beach houses back in late December (an annual event due to the availability of inexpensive rentals at that time of year). There were a few young kids there as well. They were from all over North America. Everyone, including the kids, appeared to be well. There were lots of shared family-style meals, with everyone handling the serving utensils to help themselves and working together to prepare the meals and cleanup afterwards. There were also lots of things like shared board games with multiple people handling game pieces.

One of the guests was a pulmonary specialist physician who had recently fully recovered from pneumonia from an infection which he had (presumably) contracted from a patient. Some of the kids were his. Unknown to him, his asymptomatic kids had contracted his illness and were incubating the disease.

After everyone went back to their various homes, the kids started displaying mild symptoms. A number of the adult guests developed pneumonia, including some pretty involved cases. Ultimately, all the adults got well. And I am told that it appears not to have been COVID19. The individual I know well was sick with a persistent cough that eventually turned into a diagnosed pneumonia that ultimately required bedrest for a number of weeks but managed not to infect her significant other nor her officemate nor anyone else that she knows of.

Whether or not COVID19 can be contracted from asymptomatic carriers may not yet be known for sure, but as the anecdote above reveals, there are definitely *other* respiratory infections that can be contracted from the asymptomatic. And some of those illnesses can become serious in some folks and wind up requiring the same medical resources (ICU units) as those needed to treat COVID19, resources that are at risk for becoming overwhelmed.

Out of an abundance of caution, as they say, I would suggest finding other places to exercise like the great outdoors or with equipment or fitness videos at home for now.

Personally, even though Silver Sneakers makes it free for me and I enjoy things like Zumba and yoga, I will be avoiding indoor shared exercise spaces for the indefinite future.
OpenMinded1
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Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by OpenMinded1 »

riots_rus wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:56 pm
OpenMinded1 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:26 am
riots_rus wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:55 pm Yes, I also go to work, shop at the store, and pick my kids of from daycare. I'm not letting the media and the current frenzy regarding this virus control my life. I prepare for things to go bad (like many of you), I save money, keep my body in good shape, and always have three months of food and water ready to go. Most people don't plan ahead in the slightest, not surprised they're panicking.
Honestly, I'm just curious. Not trying to be snarky or anything. I keep hearing about people stocking up on water. Is this something you are doing specifically because of coronavirus, or is this just something you generally do for some reason? Why are you stocking up on water?

We drink filtered water out of the tap. Gravity carries it to us, so we still get it even if there is a local power outage. Every so often - maybe once in 15 years - it has become contaminated some how and we get a boil water advisory.
Not a snarky question, thanks for asking. I've been a bit of a prepper (not like the ones you see on TV...well, at least I don't think I'm at that level lol) for a few years now. I keep a few 55 gallon water safe drums filled with water and a little bit of bleach in my basement. The chances of me having to use it are low I admit, but I'm able to keep them stocked and ready to go without issue and it provides me with peace of mind. What motivated me initially was a nutnfancy video on youtube where I thought he did a good job explaining why its important to keep clean water on hand, and how to do it.

Off topic, my sister was (jokingly) making fun of me last month about all the toilet paper and 5 gallon buckets of rice I keep (in mylar bags) stocked at all times. Guess who texts me yesterday she's running low on toilet paper, and cannot find any as all the stores are sold out! Of course I'll help her out. I think if any good comes from this, maybe people will be motivated to prepare more for what could happen.

Even further off topic, what happens when panic really sets in and people don't have access to the necessities? Rely on the government to take care of you? No thanks. Fortunately where I live I'm able to make provisions for home and self defense. Oh, sis also gives me crap about that. Fortunately we're ready for that too, I genuinely hope that's a bridge we never have to cross.
Interesting. Thanks for the response. I've have more non-perishable groceries in the house than usual, but that's about the only difference. Also, got several months worth of my prescriptions the last time I had them filled.
GoldenFinch
Posts: 2286
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:34 pm

Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by GoldenFinch »

My gym closed yesterday for three weeks. So, no.
carolinaman
Posts: 4383
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:56 am
Location: North Carolina

Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by carolinaman »

You can be perfect in wiping equipment and not getting disease that way. From what I have read, the most common way to transmit the disease is through a cough or sneeze. So a person close to you with the disease (probably unknowingly) coughs or sneezes in your direction, and zap, you just got the disease. This is why social isolation is so important!

I suspended my Y membership until this virus runs its course. I pray that is quickly.
SandysDad
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:27 am

Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by SandysDad »

Common sense says to load up some YouTube workout videos for a bit.
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vectorizer
Posts: 416
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:52 pm

Re: Are you still going to the gym ...

Post by vectorizer »

The Pennsylvania governor closed gyms in my home country of Montgomery on Thursday, along with community centers, entertainment centers, etc. We were termed the epicenter of Covid infections in the state ... with 4 confirmed cases at that time. Didn't even know he had the power to do that. Pretty annoying considering I go early in the morning with typically only two others in the gym, and all I do is ride a stationary bike. Now there are reports that even our county's excellent trail network is closed, that I was hoping to use as substitute to ride my bicycle as weather allows. SIgh.
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