Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
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celia
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by celia »

Corsair wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:42 pm Could I use triple ply as a face mask?
Hmmm...
How about tying the end of the TP roll in a tiny bunch secured with dental floss and make a loop to go around your ear. Repeat other side. Save some money, Bogleheads-style :!:

Who cares if face masks are sold out!
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Random Musings
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Random Musings »

For IPA, I always purchase the 70% concentration for general household disenfectant use. Concentrations above 90% are not as effective, so I would dilute those down to 60 to <90%. I have worked with 99% plus, but those purity levels are for industrial applications and chemical processes. 70 % was gone from the store, but 91% was available. You can dilute the 91% IPA with distilled water (77/23 ratio) to make roughly 70% IPA.

RM
I figure the odds be fifty-fifty I just might have something to say. FZ
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camillus
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by camillus »

Quite a fixation the last couple of pages on TP.

I just want to blow your minds with the ultimate armageddon prep: a bidet. We don't go through a lot of TP in my house. I didn't realize how prepared I was. 8-)

Similarly, we have a few "Buff's" & balaclavas for winter bike riding. Probably about as effective as a surgical mask, which is not very much.

It has probably been pointed out somewhere upthread, but we don't know the denominator for calculating coronavirus' mortality rate. In reality, the virus is probably already much more spread than people realize and manifesting as a cold in most people. I expect the mortality rate will be closer to influenza.
halfnine
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by halfnine »

KlangFool wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:06 pm
theplayer11 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:49 pm
KlangFool wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:37 pm
theplayer11 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:34 pm don't get the toilet paper thing...does this virus give people diarrhea?
I see lots of over reaction. A few scramble to get certain supplies, others see the shelves getting a little low on certain things and they join in. Sort of like when everyone is seated comfortable at the airport waiting to board, but as soon as a few decide to stand up and start a line, the herd follows resulting in everyone standing for 20 minutes while everyone could have been sitting. :confused
theplayer11,

If you are quarantined for 1 month, do you have enough toilet paper to last you one month? If not, what do you plan to do after you are quarantined?

Don't hoard. Aka, buy more than you need. But, enough supply for one month is reasonable.

KlangFool
If I get quarantined for a month, I'm sure I can get someone to go buy some for me. To hoard in advance is over-reacting. IMHO.
theplayer11,

How do you know that? That person might be quarantined too.

<<To hoard in advance is over-reacting. IMHO.>>

I disagreed. It is the lack of preparedness that lead to hoarding. Anyone that is prepared would not be buying anything at this time. Only the last-minute shoppers lead to hoarding.

KlangFool
I suspect that where I live the schools will be shutdown and people will be encouraged to work from home in about two weeks. If I ensure one month of toilet paper today there will only be about 2 weeks left at that time or I will have to go out again and stock up when everyone else is. The point is one month isn't necessarily one month of quarantine and one should plan accordingly.
Kagord
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Kagord »

I can understand the run on supplies in Hawaii. If there's disruption in shipping, it's a bigger impact there. I've lived on an island, been through bad typhoons, and can relate. At this point, it's not getting the virus I am prepping for. I'm trying to reasonably foresee how people might react to potential outbreaks, and to be ahead of that. I prepped pretty early, I just want to be able to handle requests to stay home for a few 2 week periods, and not have to deal with a last minute rush. I have never done this before.

When I was stocking, I didn't really see anybody else doing it. I went through what I thought was a rational process, but was still questioning, "What the heck am I doing?", as I'm filling up my cart. My plan was to ensure I would go through everything I bought, and not waste. I'm not really understanding the bottled water stock ups, this isn't a water source contamination issue, IMHO. Toilet paper is a domestic product AFAIK, not sure I understand that one, but I do understand why HK did this as they probably don't produce locally.

In any event, it's starting to feel surreal to me at this point, being at the early stages of a potential pandemic, and seeing the cases pop up.
Jackson12
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Jackson12 »

Would be interested in knowing the general age and professions of those noting they are purchasing extra supplies.
I’m been assuming ( but rethinking my assumptions) , that most are in their 50s and older. Younger individuals and their children hav3 less likely to get sick and have serious effects ( exceptions bring health care workers)

. Children have been at very low risk. My information not only comes from what I’ve read but input from a trusted physicians assistant and doctor.

Our situation : late 60s . One Individual is a teacher ( exposed to many students who travel home ( some cross country) on school vacations, several times a year. The risk of the school closing, perhaps for a month or longer, is significant. We’re stocking up with extra meds, basic cleaning supplies, hand sanitizer, toilet paper, food, etc

But I’m now thinking that even younger individuals may have frequent contact with seniors - perhaps their parents or grandparents - and are stocking up so that, if they get the disease, they can stay home and avoid contact with the seniors they know. Or perhaps they’re helping other seniors stock up.

Our parents are dead. We’re fortunate enough to be able to buy some extra ( beyond what we need) and donate to some seniors who would be hit hard financially if they became ill (perhaps hit most by health care costs). At this point they’re charging as much as $3500 for the virus tests. I hope that changes because it certainly doesn’t motivate some people with symptoms to report them.
Jackson12
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Jackson12 »

celia wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:16 pm
Corsair wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:42 pm Could I use triple ply as a face mask?
Who cares if face masks are sold out!
My doctor says face masks do help but only if worn by sick people. They don’t keep the virus from escaping the masks but do reduce the distance particles travel from a sneeze or cough If an individual stays 6 feet away from others, this might help.

Here’s why: there is evidence that it isn’t only exposure to the virus that causes sickness but also the frequency and intensity of exposure. This may be why health care workers, including young ones, get the virus so often, and why more of them have serious cases: frequent and intense exposure. Their immune systems may be overwhelmed.

If a mask reduces the intensity of exposure I see that as a plus.
nigel_ht
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by nigel_ht »

M.Lee wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:02 am
jsaver wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:25 am
softwaregeek wrote: Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:24 pm
sunny_socal wrote: Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:53 pm Word of advice to all you preppers: Only buy stuff that you'd use anyway.
Water was also selling out. Not much left.
I do not understand. Are folks expecting municipal water to stop working?
I don't understand this either. Anyone want to enlighten us?

In case it hasn't already been noted, there is another case of this in Illinois.
During emergency planning for prior potential disasters it turned out that, at the time, regulations limited the on hand storage of chemicals to 7 days at water treatment plants.

If there was a widespread transportation disruption (earthquake, etc) even functional plants wouldn’t be able to keep water supplies safe after a week or so.

In the case of a pandemic this is less likely to happen unless we had a very severe problem. We’d also start to see issues with power since, from memory only, nuclear plants needed 70% staffing levels or else they’d have to shut down.

This pandemic is likely to be severe but the lights and water SHOULD stay on. But I’m keeping a 2 week supply of water anyway and planning for home quarantine and school closures as that seems likely.

God help us though if the internet stops working with teens in the house...
GeoffD
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by GeoffD »

Jackson12 wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:13 am
celia wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:16 pm
Corsair wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:42 pm Could I use triple ply as a face mask?
Who cares if face masks are sold out!
My doctor says face masks do help but only if worn by sick people. They don’t keep the virus from escaping the masks but do reduce the distance particles travel from a sneeze or cough If an individual stays 6 feet away from others, this might help.

Here’s why: there is evidence that it isn’t only exposure to the virus that causes sickness but also the frequency and intensity of exposure. This may be why health care workers, including young ones, get the virus so often, and why more of them have serious cases: frequent and intense exposure. Their immune systems may be overwhelmed.

If a mask reduces the intensity of exposure I see that as a plus.
A mask prevents me from touching my mouth with my unwashed hands. From my point of view, that’s the behavior I’m trying to control.
forgeblast
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by forgeblast »

In North East pa, target was fully gutted of bleach and hand sanitizer.
While I was in Wegmans, a check out clerk told me that after work he was getting ready to go flu shopping with his wife to stock up. Not sure on what as he worked in a grocery store.
Food places like nitro pack and beprepared.com are reporting 2 week delays in food (this is the shelf stable 30 year life span foods).
Its very easy to get caught up in the hype of stocking up.
This is a stressful situation, lot of unknowns and people want comfort. So people go shopping and to quiet their minds of "you have to do something".
M.Lee
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by M.Lee »

forgeblast wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:49 am In North East pa, target was fully gutted of bleach and hand sanitizer.
While I was in Wegmans, a check out clerk told me that after work he was getting ready to go flu shopping with his wife to stock up. Not sure on what as he worked in a grocery store.
Food places like nitro pack and beprepared.com are reporting 2 week delays in food (this is the shelf stable 30 year life span foods).
Its very easy to get caught up in the hype of stocking up.
This is a stressful situation, lot of unknowns and people want comfort. So people go shopping and to quiet their minds of "you have to do something".
Interesting about the Wegman's clerk. Wegman's is my favorite store but it's 20 miles away. I would 'guess' that products like TP and cleaning supplies cost more at Wegman's and there isn't a large selection of them. I am fortunately not on a budget when it comes to grocery shopping, so I shop in speciality type markets. I went yesterday and had no problem stocking up on TP, Paper Towels, Clorox, etc. I'm a retired senior and now I do not have to leave my property for a couple weeks, so I guess that makes me relatively safe from the virus.
KlangFool
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by KlangFool »

Kagord wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:30 am I can understand the run on supplies in Hawaii. If there's disruption in shipping, it's a bigger impact there. I've lived on an island, been through bad typhoons, and can relate. At this point, it's not getting the virus I am prepping for. I'm trying to reasonably foresee how people might react to potential outbreaks, and to be ahead of that. I prepped pretty early, I just want to be able to handle requests to stay home for a few 2 week periods, and not have to deal with a last minute rush. I have never done this before.

When I was stocking, I didn't really see anybody else doing it. I went through what I thought was a rational process, but was still questioning, "What the heck am I doing?", as I'm filling up my cart. My plan was to ensure I would go through everything I bought, and not waste. I'm not really understanding the bottled water stock ups, this isn't a water source contamination issue, IMHO. Toilet paper is a domestic product AFAIK, not sure I understand that one, but I do understand why HK did this as they probably don't produce locally.

In any event, it's starting to feel surreal to me at this point, being at the early stages of a potential pandemic, and seeing the cases pop up.
Kagord,

<<Toilet paper is a domestic product AFAIK, not sure I understand that one, >>

You want to reduce your exposure by reducing the trip to the grocery store (outside).

KlangFool
Cognitive_Squeeze
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Cognitive_Squeeze »

willthrill81 wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:37 pm
Cognitive_Squeeze wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:16 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:56 pm
sunny_socal wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:18 pm
Tico_75 wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:04 pm I am doing absolutely nothing, it doesn't merit any special treatment. This shows misinformation and fear spreads fast, it's absurd and laughable. It's more dangerous to eat a cheeseburger (heart disease) or a doughnut (diabetes).
It's quite a beautiful experiment on society to see how people become so anxious and fearful. Behavioral economics can be applied to anything.
Same here. This too will pass, much like SARS did.
I don't think anyone doubts that. The question is how many will pass before it does.
People die all the time. We don't know the actual mortality rate for this. Fear has blown this out of proportion. Turn off the TV people.

Something positive. Check you have sufficient term insurance, a will, and power of attorney. At least, something productive can be done out of fear.
We don't watch TV aside from Netflix.

We won't know the actual mortality rate until it's all over. Ask an epidemiologist to verify this.

We don't know that this will pass "much like SARS did." It won't last forever, but we don't know how far reaching the impact will be. Apparently, the market believes that it will be pretty bad.
Are you using the market to justify human rationality and the impact of the virus? I rather use sunspots.
"Check ID" is my actual signature.
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Watty
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Watty »

Kagord wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:30 am Toilet paper is a domestic product AFAIK, not sure I understand that one, but I do understand why HK did this as they probably don't produce locally.
People do not want to be forced to go out to the store in an epidemic(or hurricane or blizzard) just to buy things like toilet paper so it makes sense to buy more than usual.

If a store sells twice as much as usual then the shelves may be empty and when word of that gets around people start panic buying.

One thing that people are also realizing is that the supply chains have a lot of failure points. I would also assume that the the toilet paper is made in the US(or Canada) but there could also be things like the plastic wrap or the ink that is used the printing in is made in China then that could stop the production of toilet paper here.

If the epidemic gets bad here then the toilet paper factory could be shut down, or truck drivers, warehouse people, and store clerks may not be there to replenish the toilet paper supply in the stores.
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willthrill81
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by willthrill81 »

Cognitive_Squeeze wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:25 am
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:37 pm
Cognitive_Squeeze wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:16 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:56 pm
sunny_socal wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:18 pm

Same here. This too will pass, much like SARS did.
I don't think anyone doubts that. The question is how many will pass before it does.
People die all the time. We don't know the actual mortality rate for this. Fear has blown this out of proportion. Turn off the TV people.

Something positive. Check you have sufficient term insurance, a will, and power of attorney. At least, something productive can be done out of fear.
We don't watch TV aside from Netflix.

We won't know the actual mortality rate until it's all over. Ask an epidemiologist to verify this.

We don't know that this will pass "much like SARS did." It won't last forever, but we don't know how far reaching the impact will be. Apparently, the market believes that it will be pretty bad.
Are you using the market to justify human rationality and the impact of the virus? I rather use sunspots.
No, but it stands to reason that if the market dropped over 10% before any hard economic data were released, the market was anticipating something. I've said in other threads that the market was not efficient in responding quickly enough to the Coronavirus threat.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
Cognitive_Squeeze
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Cognitive_Squeeze »

willthrill81 wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:28 am
Cognitive_Squeeze wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:25 am
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:37 pm
Cognitive_Squeeze wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:16 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:56 pm

I don't think anyone doubts that. The question is how many will pass before it does.
People die all the time. We don't know the actual mortality rate for this. Fear has blown this out of proportion. Turn off the TV people.

Something positive. Check you have sufficient term insurance, a will, and power of attorney. At least, something productive can be done out of fear.
We don't watch TV aside from Netflix.

We won't know the actual mortality rate until it's all over. Ask an epidemiologist to verify this.

We don't know that this will pass "much like SARS did." It won't last forever, but we don't know how far reaching the impact will be. Apparently, the market believes that it will be pretty bad.
Are you using the market to justify human rationality and the impact of the virus? I rather use sunspots.
No, but it stands to reason that if the market dropped over 10% before any hard economic data were released, the market was anticipating something. I've said in other threads that the market was not efficient in responding quickly enough to the Coronavirus threat.
I doubt the market can anticipate anything. This virus could certainly be an amplification factor, but there are way too many variables at play: corporate debt, PE Ratios, sunspots, etc. Irrational Exuberance, R. Shiller covers a few variables, I think is a timely book to keep cool heads.
"Check ID" is my actual signature.
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willthrill81
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by willthrill81 »

Cognitive_Squeeze wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:36 am
willthrill81 wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:28 am
Cognitive_Squeeze wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:25 am
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:37 pm
Cognitive_Squeeze wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:16 pm

People die all the time. We don't know the actual mortality rate for this. Fear has blown this out of proportion. Turn off the TV people.

Something positive. Check you have sufficient term insurance, a will, and power of attorney. At least, something productive can be done out of fear.
We don't watch TV aside from Netflix.

We won't know the actual mortality rate until it's all over. Ask an epidemiologist to verify this.

We don't know that this will pass "much like SARS did." It won't last forever, but we don't know how far reaching the impact will be. Apparently, the market believes that it will be pretty bad.
Are you using the market to justify human rationality and the impact of the virus? I rather use sunspots.
No, but it stands to reason that if the market dropped over 10% before any hard economic data were released, the market was anticipating something. I've said in other threads that the market was not efficient in responding quickly enough to the Coronavirus threat.
I doubt the market can anticipate anything. This virus could certainly be an amplification factor, but there are way too many variables at play: corporate debt, PE Ratios, sunspots, etc. Irrational Exuberance, R. Shiller covers a few variables, I think is a timely book to keep cool heads.
The market is not omniscient, if that's what you mean, and I obviously agree. But the market certainly can price in the probabilities of various events because the humans that comprise the market can do so. Bogle's 'animal spirits' (i.e. irrational herding behavior) can temporarily take over though. The market can certainly be irrational at times. The last two weeks have demonstrated that, IMHO.

I don't lend much credence to Shiller. He's been too wrong too many times.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
forgeblast
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by forgeblast »

[/quote]Interesting about the Wegman's clerk. Wegman's is my favorite store but it's 20 miles away. I would 'guess' that products like TP and cleaning supplies cost more at Wegman's and there isn't a large selection of them. I am fortunately not on a budget when it comes to grocery shopping, so I shop in speciality type markets. I went yesterday and had no problem stocking up on TP, Paper Towels, Clorox, etc. I'm a retired senior and now I do not have to leave my property for a couple weeks, so I guess that makes me relatively safe from the virus.
[/quote]

Wegmans is a funny store, their store brand items are pretty cheap, especially if you have the app and clip all the coupons. Its one of the few places around us that has a lot of plant based items. They also have a nicer selection of fruit/veg then other stores.
We decided to skip the lines and just make maple syrup this weekend. We only tap 8 trees and boil on Sundays. We finished 1.1 gallons of syrup and its warmed up today so we can collect more sap. We try to make enough to last us all year long. We use it in place of a lot of sweeteners.
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by iamlucky13 »

I've made no changes to the stock of food in the pantry.

Several people I know who went to Costco over the weekend have pointed out that most of the people piling their carts up with every form of sanitizing supplies they could find in the store were still eagerly eating the food samples.
Turbo29
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Turbo29 »

What's the obsession with the bleach? Are people going to bathe in it? Spray it all over their house? Drink it?
It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either of them. --M. Twain
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by iamlucky13 »

willthrill81 wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:28 am
Cognitive_Squeeze wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:25 am
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:37 pm
Cognitive_Squeeze wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:16 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:56 pm

I don't think anyone doubts that. The question is how many will pass before it does.
People die all the time. We don't know the actual mortality rate for this. Fear has blown this out of proportion. Turn off the TV people.

Something positive. Check you have sufficient term insurance, a will, and power of attorney. At least, something productive can be done out of fear.
We don't watch TV aside from Netflix.

We won't know the actual mortality rate until it's all over. Ask an epidemiologist to verify this.

We don't know that this will pass "much like SARS did." It won't last forever, but we don't know how far reaching the impact will be. Apparently, the market believes that it will be pretty bad.
Are you using the market to justify human rationality and the impact of the virus? I rather use sunspots.
No, but it stands to reason that if the market dropped over 10% before any hard economic data were released, the market was anticipating something. I've said in other threads that the market was not efficient in responding quickly enough to the Coronavirus threat.
Remember, the argument is that the market is efficient at incorporating available information into valuations. That is different for the market being rational, and radically different from the market being skilled in epidemiology.

The long term effects of the virus are uncertain. Uncertainty can be a risk, and the scale of that risk is higher with the virus affecting multiple countries than just one country. The market generally reduces valuations in response to risks.
vested1
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by vested1 »

My reaction was to use the flatbed cart at Sam's Club (Costco too distant), rather than our usual shopping cart. Water and paper products and a gallon container of hand sanitizer round out our preparedness for any natural disaster, not just COVID-19.

On a side note, I had a regularly scheduled 6 month checkup this morning at my PCP's centralized office with accompanying labs at the same location. Everyone in the waiting room kept as much distance from one another as possible and most everyone cast a suspicious eye on others in the room. Anyone who coughed immediately had their own personal space increased from others moving away.

Ridiculing those of us who are concerned, and interpreting that as unjustified fear is not helpful. From the comments of the doctor, the nurse, and the lab technician, it was apparent they're not feeling all warm and fuzzy either. Ignoring the news or calling it hyperbolic doesn't change the facts, which are admittedly few and far between right now, that aspect would be in everyone's best interest to remember.

I'll put my trust in the CDC, WHO, and medical experts who specialize in infectious diseases. I'd much rather be over-prepared than underprepared.
Seasonal
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Seasonal »

Cognitive_Squeeze wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:36 am I doubt the market can anticipate anything. This virus could certainly be an amplification factor, but there are way too many variables at play: corporate debt, PE Ratios, sunspots, etc. Irrational Exuberance, R. Shiller covers a few variables, I think is a timely book to keep cool heads.
Efficiency does not mean that the market is correct. Efficiency means that the market deals with available information. Lots of theory and empirical evidence suggests that it's much better than individuals at finding and analyzing information. In addition, if the standard for being correct is future market movements, then the market is the ultimate arbiter of correctness.

OTOH, if you are reliably better than the market at this stuff, have at it. Alas, experience is not on your side. In addition, consider the role of luck and the tendency to remember good calls but not bad ones. Everything is obvious in hindsight.
JD2775
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by JD2775 »

iamlucky13 wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:51 am I've made no changes to the stock of food in the pantry.

Several people I know who went to Costco over the weekend have pointed out that most of the people piling their carts up with every form of sanitizing supplies they could find in the store were still eagerly eating the food samples.
This made me laugh :oops:
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by sunny_socal »

Turbo29 wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:55 am What's the obsession with the bleach? Are people going to bathe in it? Spray it all over their house? Drink it?
Drink it, yes. It's a cheap way to sanitize water.
Cognitive_Squeeze
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Cognitive_Squeeze »

JD2775 wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:33 am
iamlucky13 wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:51 am I've made no changes to the stock of food in the pantry.

Several people I know who went to Costco over the weekend have pointed out that most of the people piling their carts up with every form of sanitizing supplies they could find in the store were still eagerly eating the food samples.
This made me laugh :oops:
Ha, ha, ha, ha! Of course!
"Check ID" is my actual signature.
IMO
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by IMO »

Watty wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:39 am
Kagord wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:30 am Toilet paper is a domestic product AFAIK, not sure I understand that one, but I do understand why HK did this as they probably don't produce locally.
People do not want to be forced to go out to the store in an epidemic(or hurricane or blizzard) just to buy things like toilet paper so it makes sense to buy more than usual.

If a store sells twice as much as usual then the shelves may be empty and when word of that gets around people start panic buying.

One thing that people are also realizing is that the supply chains have a lot of failure points. I would also assume that the the toilet paper is made in the US(or Canada) but there could also be things like the plastic wrap or the ink that is used the printing in is made in China then that could stop the production of toilet paper here.

If the epidemic gets bad here then the toilet paper factory could be shut down, or truck drivers, warehouse people, and store clerks may not be there to replenish the toilet paper supply in the stores.
Originally, I was essentially going to do nothing special to "prepare." However, I was just got back from shopping for some groceries and a couple thoughts came into mind:

a) People won't "self" isolate themselves in the real world for a couple weeks. Who are we kidding?

b) If someone does wake up and feel bad (and actually caught the virus), but doesn't have food/other normal household supplies, so long as they are not on their deathbed that day, it would be pretty likely that they are still going to head out to the store and buy groceries. Even if they send a family member instead, it would be likely that the family member was also probably already infected and could transmit the virus. Thus, grocery stores/Costco, etc during a localized outbreak would be a place that would have a high likelihood of exposing others. Having your food/supplies means you either won't be as likely to get exposed OR to expose someone else.

c) Lets say a local outbreak occurred, say for example there are cases at a local high school(s), I could see the panic buying happening at one's local market/Costco, etc. Small towns, mid-sized towns, large cities can all be subject to a mass buy panic. Imagine if everyone in your particular area felt the need to stalk up on something like soda's tomorrow, the shelves would go from full to empty in a hurry.

d) If someone did get exposed in your household (for example a family member working at a hospital/your kid in the exposed high school) and you're going to attempt to isolate them. Then yeah, you better have plenty of cleaning supplies and that includes household bleach to wipe things down.

e) Without panicking and being a "prepper", it probably is good prudent practice to have more than our typical 1-2 weeks of food/supplies we keep on hand. Would be helpful to allow oneself to not have to head the the store if the family did get sick/exposed, and would be helpful should some other event occur such as an earthquake, fire, etc that naturally would cause panic shopping.

f) I could actually see there could be weaknesses in the supply chain for a variety of things that can happen ion life.

g) Should a panic buy occur and the stores were not able to replenish things, I'm sure one will feel obligated to help out and give some supplies out to your family and friends in the area who didn't get in before the panic buy.

Bottom line, seems smart to have extra food and supplies that one is going to use up anyway.
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Doom&Gloom »

Cognitive_Squeeze wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:47 am
JD2775 wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:33 am
iamlucky13 wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:51 am I've made no changes to the stock of food in the pantry.

Several people I know who went to Costco over the weekend have pointed out that most of the people piling their carts up with every form of sanitizing supplies they could find in the store were still eagerly eating the food samples.
This made me laugh :oops:
Ha, ha, ha, ha! Of course!
Me too.

I am now eagerly awaiting someone here to post in the "What Frugal Thing Did You Do Today?" thread about doing just that :twisted:
dknightd
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by dknightd »

I'm tempted to sit in my house, drink beer, listen to music
If you value a bird in the hand, pay off the loan. If you are willing to risk getting two birds (or none) from the market, invest the funds. Retired 9/19. Still working on mortgage payoff.
quantAndHold
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by quantAndHold »

Can confirm that all the usual places in central San Diego are out of hand sanitizer. The martial arts studio I teach at is running low, so the head teacher and I went on a quest to find some this morning, and utterly failed, except for a few travel size ones at Target. Which she bought for her personal travel use.

The guy at CVS said they’re getting new hand sanitizer all the time, but it sells out almost immediately, so there’s some luck involved in getting it.

In other news, while we may have failed at our primary quest, I bought four pounds of Hair Bender. At least when the apocalypse comes, I won’t run out of coffee.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.
Finridge
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Finridge »

The U.S Centers for Disease Control (CDC) is the federal government agency tasked with primary responsibility in preventing and managing epidemics/pandemics. A few years ago, they published educational material for the pubic urging people to be take reasonable precautions in order to be prepared for a possible flu pandemic. They warned us then (and I quote), "It’s not a matter of IF, but WHEN."

Their advice includes this: "Although the flu pandemic may last several months, buy and store at least 2-weeks' supplies of food, water, medicine, and facemasks. (Food and supplies may be hard to get during a pandemic.) When you have to stay home, these supplies will support your family and pets."

You can find their materials here. (These are pdf's, and so best viewed on a tablet or laptop/desktop).

Short 2-pager: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resour ... ndemic.pdf

Longer write-up: https://www.cdc.gov/nonpharmaceutical-i ... lu-npi.pdf
PDX_Traveler
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by PDX_Traveler »

(Edited, to add URL to the article in question - thanks for the suggestions/advice!)
I was reflecting on this article in the Washington Post, extract quoted below (of course, I do think it is more general human behavior than "Americans" only):
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... countries/

"... Americans typically frame emergency preparedness as individual preparedness. But in this case, as face masks and hand sanitizers disappear from shelves and online vendors, containment will not be achieved just by individual acquisition of the right commodities or by technical action such as widespread testing for evidence of infection.
Containment is not only about science and equipment. It’s about people and collective action. Success is rooted in social solidarity. Some of our best prevention strategies, such as adhering to quarantine or covering one’s cough, are designed to reduce transmission rates, not necessarily to protect an individual but to protect the most vulnerable in the community. ..."

P.S. I'm not sure about the etiquette for referencing sources here in this forum - hence I didn't just post a URL but a quote with some citation. If that is wrong, I apologize.
Last edited by PDX_Traveler on Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Seasonal
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Seasonal »

PDX_Traveler wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:05 am I was reflecting on this article in the Washington Post, extract quoted below (of course, I do think it is more general human behavior than "Americans" only):
"... Americans typically frame emergency preparedness as individual preparedness. But in this case, as face masks and hand sanitizers disappear from shelves and online vendors, containment will not be achieved just by individual acquisition of the right commodities or by technical action such as widespread testing for evidence of infection.
Containment is not only about science and equipment. It’s about people and collective action. Success is rooted in social solidarity. Some of our best prevention strategies, such as adhering to quarantine or covering one’s cough, are designed to reduce transmission rates, not necessarily to protect an individual but to protect the most vulnerable in the community. ..."

P.S. I'm not sure about the etiquette for referencing sources here in this forum - hence I didn't just post a URL but a quote with some citation. If that is wrong, I apologize.
I believe best practice is to post short excerpts or a summary (as you've done) and link to the source.

The main point seems to be to prevent spread by trying to make sure those with the disease don't spread it, through isolation or not sneezing or coughing on others, not touching, washing hands, etc. This is harder to achieve in the US, given the absence of paid sick leave and the widespread economic necessity of going to work even when sick. Expensive healthcare (high deductibles and copays even with insurance) doesn't help.

A vague analogy is vaccination, which increases herd immunity.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by ResearchMed »

PDX_Traveler wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:05 am I was reflecting on this article in the Washington Post, extract quoted below (of course, I do think it is more general human behavior than "Americans" only):
"... Americans typically frame emergency preparedness as individual preparedness. But in this case, as face masks and hand sanitizers disappear from shelves and online vendors, containment will not be achieved just by individual acquisition of the right commodities or by technical action such as widespread testing for evidence of infection.
Containment is not only about science and equipment. It’s about people and collective action. Success is rooted in social solidarity. Some of our best prevention strategies, such as adhering to quarantine or covering one’s cough, are designed to reduce transmission rates, not necessarily to protect an individual but to protect the most vulnerable in the community. ..."

P.S. I'm not sure about the etiquette for referencing sources here in this forum - hence I didn't just post a URL but a quote with some citation. If that is wrong, I apologize.
As Seasonal pointed out, you are on the right track.
First, posting a link IS appropriate (as long as it's not to your own commercial, for profit website, or such, of course!) as long as you give context. ("Naked links" - links with no context - are *not* appropriate.)

The context can be from a small quoted section, or a summary of the main point(s). Then the reader can use the link to get more information.

You can edit your own post and add a link if you wish (and this might be helpful to others here, to get more info), by editing your post.
If you look to the upper right of your own post, there will be the regular choices such a "quote" or "report" (the exclamation mark), and also a little pencil icon. Click on the pencil icon, and an editable version will appear.
It's helpful when editing an existing post to start with something like "ETA" (Edited To Add) to help those who already read it, especially when someone makes changes to the text, etc.

Then enter the link, and post your edited piece. Note: there will be a notation below your post stating that you edited it, and the time, which will appear automatically unless no one else had posted after you yet.

Note also that in some cases, the link will only be available to those who subscribe to the linked site. This is somewhat common, unfortunately, and it's still okay to post.

Thanks for sharing the info :happy

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
fru-gal
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by fru-gal »

vested1 wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:25 am I'll put my trust in the CDC, WHO, and medical experts who specialize in infectious diseases. I'd much rather be over-prepared than underprepared.
The CDC has been amazingly stupid, restricting tests to a very small number of people, so the coronavirus can spread widely undetected. Everything I hear from medical people is they are very upset about this. I looked on the CDC website and the top people are doctors, so I am baffled. I assumed some political appointee was messing stuff up.

I read that they are going to really amp up the number of testing kits available, but I have not seen any indication that they have done this,
iamlucky13
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by iamlucky13 »

fru-gal wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:29 pm
vested1 wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:25 am I'll put my trust in the CDC, WHO, and medical experts who specialize in infectious diseases. I'd much rather be over-prepared than underprepared.
The CDC has been amazingly stupid, restricting tests to a very small number of people, so the coronavirus can spread widely undetected. Everything I hear from medical people is they are very upset about this. I looked on the CDC website and the top people are doctors, so I am baffled. I assumed some political appointee was messing stuff up.

I read that they are going to really amp up the number of testing kits available, but I have not seen any indication that they have done this,
This isn't about "stupid." It's about creating a reliable test for a new disease and producing it quickly in large numbers.

I don't know the background on China's testing kit. The CDC has provided information about theirs.

The CDC was working for several months on a test kit that could be used by most laboratories and provide quick results. In the meantime, I believe health care providers were sending samples to the CDC directly, as the existing procedure for confirming the presence of the virus was more complicated.

They completed development and requested an emergency exemption to FDA approval requirements on February 3.

The exemption was issued February 4.

Shipping started February 5. As far as I understand it, the manufacturers producing the CDC test kit are shipping it as fast as they can make it.

A quality problem with one of the components of the test kit was identified shortly afterwards. Since then, they determined that the test is reasonably reliable without that component, and have updated the testing instructions for labs that received kits with a the bad component.
Corsair
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Corsair »

iamlucky13 wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:06 pm
fru-gal wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:29 pm
vested1 wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:25 am I'll put my trust in the CDC, WHO, and medical experts who specialize in infectious diseases. I'd much rather be over-prepared than underprepared.
The CDC has been amazingly stupid, restricting tests to a very small number of people, so the coronavirus can spread widely undetected. Everything I hear from medical people is they are very upset about this. I looked on the CDC website and the top people are doctors, so I am baffled. I assumed some political appointee was messing stuff up.

I read that they are going to really amp up the number of testing kits available, but I have not seen any indication that they have done this,
This isn't about "stupid." It's about creating a reliable test for a new disease and producing it quickly in large numbers.

I don't know the background on China's testing kit. The CDC has provided information about theirs.

The CDC was working for several months on a test kit that could be used by most laboratories and provide quick results. In the meantime, I believe health care providers were sending samples to the CDC directly, as the existing procedure for confirming the presence of the virus was more complicated.

They completed development and requested an emergency exemption to FDA approval requirements on February 3.

The exemption was issued February 4.

Shipping started February 5. As far as I understand it, the manufacturers producing the CDC test kit are shipping it as fast as they can make it.

A quality problem with one of the components of the test kit was identified shortly afterwards. Since then, they determined that the test is reasonably reliable without that component, and have updated the testing instructions for labs that received kits with a the bad component.
WHO released a test, which other countries like South Korea have been using. The CDC decided to make their own which they botched. Yes, they were stupid. South Korea even tested a dog for the virus.
“The incompetence has really exceeded what anyone would expect with the C.D.C.,” said Dr. Michael Mina, an epidemiologist at Harvard University. “This is not a difficult problem to solve in the world of viruses.”

“How come the South Koreans can do 10,000 tests a day and we can’t?” said Ralph Baric, who studies coronaviruses and emerging diseases at University of North Carolina.

Soon after the virus surfaced in China, the C.D.C. got to work on its own test. “Generally, C.D.C. provides these tests for the world,” said Dr. Frieden.

But German researchers were devising their own test, which was quickly adopted by the World Health Organization for distribution around the world.

After the C.D.C.’s version turned out to be flawed, the agency continued to pursue it, despite the fact that another diagnostic test was already in wide use.

With F.D.A. approval, the agency could simply have embraced the test used by the W.H.O., Dr. Mina said. The government could do so even now.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/02/heal ... g-cdc.html
All posts are my own opinions and are not financial advice.
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Doom&Gloom »

I logged into my Kroger online account today to see this notice:

Due to high demand and to support all customers, we will be limiting the number of Sanitization, Cold and Flu related products to 5 each per order. Your order may be modified at time of pickup or delivery.

Supply and demand for some products will almost certainly get out of whack for a while.
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Tim_in_GA
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Tim_in_GA »

Doom&Gloom wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:56 pm I logged into my Kroger online account today to see this notice:

Due to high demand and to support all customers, we will be limiting the number of Sanitization, Cold and Flu related products to 5 each per order. Your order may be modified at time of pickup or delivery.

Supply and demand for some products will almost certainly get out of whack for a while.
Our local Kroger here in Ohio is cleaned out of all those things. My wife got the last several bottles of hand sanitizer there yesterday. Also Walmart is out of most of the sanitization items and cold/flu medicine.
sawhorse
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by sawhorse »

I wasn't doing anything about the virus, but I'm considering buying some extra soap and cleaning supplies. Not because I'm worried about the virus, but because I'm worried about future shortages and the accompanying price gouging.
fru-gal
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by fru-gal »

iamlucky13 wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:06 pm
fru-gal wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:29 pm
vested1 wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:25 am I'll put my trust in the CDC, WHO, and medical experts who specialize in infectious diseases. I'd much rather be over-prepared than underprepared.
The CDC has been amazingly stupid, restricting tests to a very small number of people, so the coronavirus can spread widely undetected. Everything I hear from medical people is they are very upset about this. I looked on the CDC website and the top people are doctors, so I am baffled. I assumed some political appointee was messing stuff up.

I read that they are going to really amp up the number of testing kits available, but I have not seen any indication that they have done this,
This isn't about "stupid." It's about creating a reliable test for a new disease and producing it quickly in large numbers.

I don't know the background on China's testing kit. The CDC has provided information about theirs.

The CDC was working for several months on a test kit that could be used by most laboratories and provide quick results. In the meantime, I believe health care providers were sending samples to the CDC directly, as the existing procedure for confirming the presence of the virus was more complicated.

They completed development and requested an emergency exemption to FDA approval requirements on February 3.

The exemption was issued February 4.

Shipping started February 5. As far as I understand it, the manufacturers producing the CDC test kit are shipping it as fast as they can make it.

A quality problem with one of the components of the test kit was identified shortly afterwards. Since then, they determined that the test is reasonably reliable without that component, and have updated the testing instructions for labs that received kits with a the bad component.
My understanding is that there is a perfectly fine testing kit available and widely used in other countries.
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Watty
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Watty »

I think that someone already mentioned this before but my wife bought some hearing aid batteries today.
Nowizard
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Nowizard »

Added wipes to the car today and will use them when coming back from stores, wiping down steering wheel, hands, etc. Also, read an article by a physician who stated he had zinc lozenges and recommended taking them several times a day at the first sign of a cold or cough. Have hand sanitizer in house.

Tim
p14175
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by p14175 »

All I am doing to prepare is when I have to go to Walmart for anything, make the trip early Sunday morning when the store is really empty.
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Cosmo
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Cosmo »

KlangFool wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:37 pm
theplayer11 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:34 pm don't get the toilet paper thing...does this virus give people diarrhea?
I see lots of over reaction. A few scramble to get certain supplies, others see the shelves getting a little low on certain things and they join in. Sort of like when everyone is seated comfortable at the airport waiting to board, but as soon as a few decide to stand up and start a line, the herd follows resulting in everyone standing for 20 minutes while everyone could have been sitting. :confused
theplayer11,

If you are quarantined for 1 month, do you have enough toilet paper to last you one month? If not, what do you plan to do after you are quarantined?

Don't hoard. Aka, buy more than you need. But, enough supply for one month is reasonable.

KlangFool
Who puts you in quarantine? Who enforces this? I have a difficult time believing there will be involuntary quarantines.
bob60014
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by bob60014 »

The world is going crazy. None of this stocking up and shortages of stuff makes any sense. But I'm still glad I have a few old Sears catalogs laying around! ;)
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willthrill81
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by willthrill81 »

bob60014 wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:43 pm The world is going crazy. None of this stocking up and shortages of stuff makes any sense. But I'm still glad I have a few old Sears catalogs laying around! ;)
I'll bet that their paper is glazed though.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
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willthrill81
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by willthrill81 »

Cosmo wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:41 pm
KlangFool wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:37 pm
theplayer11 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:34 pm don't get the toilet paper thing...does this virus give people diarrhea?
I see lots of over reaction. A few scramble to get certain supplies, others see the shelves getting a little low on certain things and they join in. Sort of like when everyone is seated comfortable at the airport waiting to board, but as soon as a few decide to stand up and start a line, the herd follows resulting in everyone standing for 20 minutes while everyone could have been sitting. :confused
theplayer11,

If you are quarantined for 1 month, do you have enough toilet paper to last you one month? If not, what do you plan to do after you are quarantined?

Don't hoard. Aka, buy more than you need. But, enough supply for one month is reasonable.

KlangFool
Who puts you in quarantine? Who enforces this? I have a difficult time believing there will be involuntary quarantines.
Governors can declare martial law and use that to enforce quarantines and other 'draconian' measures with perfect legality.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
petulant
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by petulant »

willthrill81 wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:58 pm
Cosmo wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:41 pm
KlangFool wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:37 pm
theplayer11 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:34 pm don't get the toilet paper thing...does this virus give people diarrhea?
I see lots of over reaction. A few scramble to get certain supplies, others see the shelves getting a little low on certain things and they join in. Sort of like when everyone is seated comfortable at the airport waiting to board, but as soon as a few decide to stand up and start a line, the herd follows resulting in everyone standing for 20 minutes while everyone could have been sitting. :confused
theplayer11,

If you are quarantined for 1 month, do you have enough toilet paper to last you one month? If not, what do you plan to do after you are quarantined?

Don't hoard. Aka, buy more than you need. But, enough supply for one month is reasonable.

KlangFool
Who puts you in quarantine? Who enforces this? I have a difficult time believing there will be involuntary quarantines.
Governors can declare martial law and use that to enforce quarantines and other 'draconian' measures with perfect legality.
I am a lawyer and this is correct.
Glenn
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Glenn »

I am doing absolutely nothing. I buy my prescriptions in 90 day lots and just refilled, so I probably have a four month supply. Aside from that, I don't see other useful preparations. I don't think the supermarket is going to run out of food or toilet paper (!). This isn't a hurricane or major earthquake.

Masks? I'm not enthusiastic about them. I've used N95's professionally and they are too uncomfortable to wear routinely. Other masks, such as surgical masks, would help me keep my germs to myself, not keep viruses from getting to me. I'll do that by keeping my distance and washing hands.

If I get sick, I'll isolate myself in a separate bedroom and bathroom, and keep my germs to myself. If I get really sick, I figure the medicos will give me the masks when they put me in the hospital.

Basically, if my community gets hit hard, I'll take care to keep my distance from others, wash hands, etc. Set the alarm for 3 am and go grocery shopping when the store is open but empty! Helps to be retired...
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