Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
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AlphaLess
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by AlphaLess »

willthrill81 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:07 pm
hightower wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:31 pm 1. Pointless, masks aren't going to protect you from this virus. Healthcare workers in full body PPE are still getting infected.
Somewhere, their means of protection are getting compromised. Viruses cannot pass through anything like ghosts.

But for something as highly infectious as the Coronavirus seems to be, you have to take extreme measures to be very confident (you can't be 100% sure) that you aren't being exposed to the virus. This includes wearing full body suits with proper ventilation (i.e. not just a mask), having the suit thoroughly sanitized before you remove it, etc.

Further, an N95 mask alone may not do much good in the face of such a virus because you can still get infected via your eyes. So unless you have well fitting goggles and an N95 mask, there's a definite possibility that you'll still be exposed to the virus.
Bingo!

Coronavirus requires BSL-3 treatment. With a mask around, walking happily in the office, subway, or the street, you are not going to get that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosafety_level
"A Republic, if you can keep it". Benjamin Franklin. 1787. | Party affiliation: Vanguard. Religion: low-cost investing.
AlphaLess
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by AlphaLess »

SC Anteater wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:31 pm So the Italy news did prompt me to make a morning stock up run. They were one of the most cautious countries in Europe -- had banned all direct flights from China early, were thermo-scanning international passengers quite early on, and still this happens, with no warning for residents of those towns to go stock up.

It doesn't help that I just returned from Rome last Wednesday! Ugh. I was nowhere near the virus-affected areas, but still. You just have to know there were people from Milan in Rome at the time I was there. I'm not planning for the grid to go down (anymore that I normally do living in earthquake country) but I at least have enough food to last me several weeks.
1. People use 3rd countries to make visits (e.g., visit some country, like Cameroon, which has not banned trips to China, then from Cameroon to Italy),

2. Thermo-scanning does not work. Super-spreaders pass the virus to dozens, if not hundreds, primarily because they are shedding the virus like crazy, but not showing any symptoms.

This is a very pesky virus: some people do not get affected that much (80%). And thus, there is no need for them to take pre-cautions, like avoiding crowds, not touching things, etc.
"A Republic, if you can keep it". Benjamin Franklin. 1787. | Party affiliation: Vanguard. Religion: low-cost investing.
Finridge
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Finridge »

AlphaLess wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:19 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:07 pm
hightower wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:31 pm 1. Pointless, masks aren't going to protect you from this virus. Healthcare workers in full body PPE are still getting infected.
Somewhere, their means of protection are getting compromised. Viruses cannot pass through anything like ghosts.

But for something as highly infectious as the Coronavirus seems to be, you have to take extreme measures to be very confident (you can't be 100% sure) that you aren't being exposed to the virus. This includes wearing full body suits with proper ventilation (i.e. not just a mask), having the suit thoroughly sanitized before you remove it, etc.

Further, an N95 mask alone may not do much good in the face of such a virus because you can still get infected via your eyes. So unless you have well fitting goggles and an N95 mask, there's a definite possibility that you'll still be exposed to the virus.
Bingo!

Coronavirus requires BSL-3 treatment. With a mask around, walking happily in the office, subway, or the street, you are not going to get that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosafety_level
I'd suggest that we not try to provide medical advice, and most especially not medical advice that conflicts with expert advice, such as that from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and prepared specifically with the COVID-19 virus in mind.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... -sick.html

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... nd-animals

Also, a very important point in understanding the CDC references to "facemasks" in the above publications that has actionable consequences to any consumer in the market for the "facemasks" they are recommending for certain settings: in the CDC's terminology, the CDC carefully distinguishes between "facemasks" (by which they clarify the mean "surgical masks" and "respirators" including for example, the N95 respirators. See there detailed FAQ regarding this here: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... e-faq.html
AlphaLess
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by AlphaLess »

iamlucky13 wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:44 pm
Finridge wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:04 pm A few days ago, New York Times headline was "Another Young Doctor dies In Wuhan" about a 29-year old doctor dying from coronavirus. When is the last time you read a headline like that about a flu epidemic?
It happens all the time. Sometimes it gets attention. Usually it doesn't.

Anecdote:
https://time.com/5099042/influenza-deaths-flu/

Data:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2017-2018.htm

2018-2019 US estimated influenza-related deaths by age:
- 528 deaths of persons age 5-17
- 2803 deaths of persons age 18-49

It is true that those who die of influenza in these age groups usually (over 90%) have an additional medical condition that likely plays a contributory role, but that still leaves a lot who are generally healthy, and we don't currently have data distinguishing such factors with respect to COVID-19.
Finridge wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:04 pm In my mind, two major factors which makes coronavirus very different from the flu are (1) a much higher death rate (exponentially higher), and (2) it is requiring "young healthy" adults to be hospitalized and some of these are dying.
This assertion is still under study. If you aren't careful with the data, you will conclude that influenza is deadlier. The CDC estimates there have been 16,000 influenza-related deaths in the US so far this year, compared to 174,037 confirmed cases:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

At face value, that's a 9.2% death rate due to the flu, compared to 3.3% for COVID-19, per WHO's update from today.

The reality is we know the overwhelming majority of cases of influenza are not diagnosed by laboratory testing, and a relative modest percentage are even taken to doctors for symptom-based diagnosis. There is a very comprehensive method followed regularly for estimating the number of overall infections, which so far this year is at 29 million.

Such a methodology does not exist yet for COVID-19. Perhaps, somehow, it is different and we really have diagnosed a very high percentage of the actual infections. Personally, I highly doubt it. I would not be the slightest bit surprised if the infection count in China is in the millions, but that most people with symptoms either don't believe they have anything unusual, or are deliberately trying to avoid automatic imprisonment by their government.

When 2500 people have died in just a few months, there's no getting around that this is a pretty serious disease. Whether it's unusually serious is a question I'm cautiously watching for more information about.

In the meantime, the main thing I'm preparing for is disruptions in the availability of limited varieties of goods due to government actions.
"A Republic, if you can keep it". Benjamin Franklin. 1787. | Party affiliation: Vanguard. Religion: low-cost investing.
AlphaLess
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by AlphaLess »

Finridge wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:50 pm
AlphaLess wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:19 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:07 pm
hightower wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:31 pm 1. Pointless, masks aren't going to protect you from this virus. Healthcare workers in full body PPE are still getting infected.
Somewhere, their means of protection are getting compromised. Viruses cannot pass through anything like ghosts.

But for something as highly infectious as the Coronavirus seems to be, you have to take extreme measures to be very confident (you can't be 100% sure) that you aren't being exposed to the virus. This includes wearing full body suits with proper ventilation (i.e. not just a mask), having the suit thoroughly sanitized before you remove it, etc.

Further, an N95 mask alone may not do much good in the face of such a virus because you can still get infected via your eyes. So unless you have well fitting goggles and an N95 mask, there's a definite possibility that you'll still be exposed to the virus.
Bingo!

Coronavirus requires BSL-3 treatment. With a mask around, walking happily in the office, subway, or the street, you are not going to get that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosafety_level
I'd suggest that we not try to provide medical advice, and most especially not medical advice that conflicts with expert advice, such as that from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and prepared specifically with the COVID-19 virus in mind.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... -sick.html

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... nd-animals

Also, a very important point in understanding the CDC references to "facemasks" in the above publications that has actionable consequences to any consumer in the market for the "facemasks" they are recommending for certain settings: in the CDC's terminology, the CDC carefully distinguishes between "facemasks" (by which they clarify the mean "surgical masks" and "respirators" including for example, the N95 respirators. See there detailed FAQ regarding this here: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... e-faq.html
I did not provide advice. I merely stated that a simple face mask is not going to help you. Flu virus requires BSL-3. COVID-19 is a flu-like virus. So, if you are routinely exposed to infected people, you need a BSL-3 level protection. A mere face mask will not provide that.

Also, there is the issue of use case and human slippage.
"A Republic, if you can keep it". Benjamin Franklin. 1787. | Party affiliation: Vanguard. Religion: low-cost investing.
Finridge
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Finridge »

AlphaLess wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:16 am
I did not provide advice. I merely stated that a simple face mask is not going to help you. ...
I suggest we not debate this here. I'm no expert. Simply noting that your advice conflicts with the CDC's advice.

Over the last several days, the CDC has put up a lot of information for both consumers and health professionals here:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... ities.html
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tadamsmar
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by tadamsmar »

Mask wearing in public seems to be mostly a cultural phenomena:

https://qz.com/299003/a-quick-history-o ... in-public/

It seems that even the CDC does not seem to have a completely rational position on mask wearing.

They recommend it for those with covid-19 but not for the flu:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... prevention

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/i ... idance.htm

And apparently no recommendation for the common cold.

Also, consider the fact that this largely based on having symptoms, and the the symptoms overlap for cold, flu, and covid-19

There seems to be evidence that they are effective even for well people, but there is skepticism that it works in a non-experimental setting due to uneven compliance:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/well ... ntion.html

However, there are widespread non-compliance issues with hand-washing and other measures that the CDC does recommend.

I wonder if mask wearing will catch on in the US population in general?

I wonder if asian doctors wear masks in public (on the street) when asymptomatic? I can't find any data on that. It would seem that they might be shamed by there peers if they wore a mask in public when asymptomatic, but on the other hand maybe they do it just of fit in since it is harmless. Or maybe the medical establishment in Asia supports mask-wearing in public by the well or those sick with the flu, unlike the CDC.

Overall, curious.

Edit: Different national governments give conflicting recommendations on mask wearing:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chin ... SKBN1ZU0PH
Foredeck
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Foredeck »

I read on the CDC website to clean/disinfect high traffic areas of your house.

This may help with just general germ control.

Yesterday cleaned all the door knobs, floors, cooking surfaces. I was surprised to find just how dirty many of the door knobs were.

CDC also recommends hand washing, which I will do religiously, especially before I eat or need to touch my face.
GeoffD
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by GeoffD »

Personally, I think a surgical mask and glasses is useful to stop me from touching my eyes and mouth with my unwashed hands. I’m more concerned about that than picking it up through droplets. An N95 mask is appropriate if you’re a health care worker in the proximity of infected people. For the rest of us, OCD level of hand washing and alcohol hand lotion, and showering/washing clothes the moment you get home is reasonable. The Lady Macbeth “Out, damned spot! Out, I say!” thing.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by JoeRetire »

Should everyone become a Bubble Boy now?

Oh, Noooo, I'm so sorry. It's the MOOPS. The correct answer is, The MOOPS.
It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | And I feel fine.
GiannaLuna
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by GiannaLuna »

With respect to a "face mask" and "glasses".....

would this mean any typical brand of safety goggles such as those worn in a laboratory?
wolf359
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by wolf359 »

Have you seen these virus masks for your pets?
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=do ... &FORM=IGRE

I don't know if they're effective, but they're cute.
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Watty
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Watty »

A lot of the posts mentioned how effective a mask might be in protecting a wearer but they may be asking the wrong question and be missing a big point.

You also need to look at it the other way around and look at how effective masks are at protecting people around you from catching something that you might have especially when you cough or sneeze.

For example when you see pictures of surgery rooms with people dressed in surgical gloves and masks that was originally to protect the patient from being exposed to their germs during surgery even though protection may go both ways.
tadamsmar wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:28 am Mask wearing in public seems to be mostly a cultural phenomena:
One possible explanation that I have seen even before covid-19 is that face masks are worn not to protect the wearer but to protect other people from catching any germs or viruses that the wearer might have.

Going out without a mask could be seen as being rude in some cultures since it would be putting the people around you at risk of catching something that you might have.

A lot of posts on this thread have just been about how masks might protect the wearer.

If everyone else is wearing a mask that might help protect you a lot better than if it was just you wearing a mask.

It is greatly oversimplified but I once heard a lecture about how western culture that goes back to the Greeks tends to be somewhat focused on the "I", but cultures that stem can be traced back to Confucianism tend to be more focused on the society. These two quotes sort of show the different mindsets;

Western: The squeaky wheel get the grease.
Eastern: The nail that sticks out gets hammered.
alfaspider
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by alfaspider »

IMO wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:38 pm Personally, we are not doing anything. However, advised my elderly parents to not go to their local Costco. This particular Costco has an extremely high percentage of Chinese Americans (think similar to being in Chinatown areas). Basically one has to figure because of this there is a much higher possibility that someone in this Costco had traveled to China or had family members recently travel to China. Simply not worth the risk for elderly who are more likely to not survive an infection with this Coronavirus.
Your parents are still likely at more risk driving to Costco than contracting a disease there. If they DID die of a disease they contracted at Costco, it would be far more likely to be the flu.

One small silver lining of this Coronavirus nonsense is that the asian supermarket near my house is not nearly as crowded on Saturday afternoons as it usually is. Nice way to get grocery shopping done quick, and the food court is amazing.
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canadianbacon
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by canadianbacon »

klondike wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:51 pm So far I haven't done anything special yet. But if things get ugly, i.e. social disorder or cops don't respond to 911 calls...
I would add the following to your list:

a) acquire some pistols for personal defense.
b) acquire assault rifles which is legal to your state, for long range defense in urban environment.
c) acquire shotgun, good for close quarters defense.
d) truck load of ammunitions.
e) go practice target shooting, both stationary and moving regularly.
It is sad how woefully unprepared you are. I would consider the following a prudent minimum:

a) landmines on front and back lawn
b) anti-tank artillery positioned from an upper-floor window
c) moat filled with crocodiles (alternate animal substitutions may be made based on region)
d) loudspeaker playing The Most Unwanted Song on repeat at high volume (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gPuH1yeZ08)
e) cyanide pills for everyone should the defences ultimately be breached.

Any less than this is contempt for yourself and your family.
Bulls make money, bears make money, pigs get slaughtered.
alfaspider
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by alfaspider »

canadianbacon wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:15 am
klondike wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:51 pm So far I haven't done anything special yet. But if things get ugly, i.e. social disorder or cops don't respond to 911 calls...
I would add the following to your list:

a) acquire some pistols for personal defense.
b) acquire assault rifles which is legal to your state, for long range defense in urban environment.
c) acquire shotgun, good for close quarters defense.
d) truck load of ammunitions.
e) go practice target shooting, both stationary and moving regularly.
It is sad how woefully unprepared you are. I would consider the following a prudent minimum:

a) landmines on front and back lawn
b) anti-tank artillery positioned from an upper-floor window
c) moat filled with crocodiles (alternate animal substitutions may be made based on region)
d) loudspeaker playing The Most Unwanted Song on repeat at high volume (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gPuH1yeZ08)
e) cyanide pills for everyone should the defences ultimately be breached.

Any less than this is contempt for yourself and your family.
No robotic machine gun turrets? What sort of negligent monster are you?
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VictoriaF
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by VictoriaF »

canadianbacon wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:15 am
klondike wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:51 pm So far I haven't done anything special yet. But if things get ugly, i.e. social disorder or cops don't respond to 911 calls...
I would add the following to your list:

a) acquire some pistols for personal defense.
b) acquire assault rifles which is legal to your state, for long range defense in urban environment.
c) acquire shotgun, good for close quarters defense.
d) truck load of ammunitions.
e) go practice target shooting, both stationary and moving regularly.
It is sad how woefully unprepared you are. I would consider the following a prudent minimum:

a) landmines on front and back lawn
b) anti-tank artillery positioned from an upper-floor window
c) moat filled with crocodiles (alternate animal substitutions may be made based on region)
d) loudspeaker playing The Most Unwanted Song on repeat at high volume (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gPuH1yeZ08)
e) cyanide pills for everyone should the defences ultimately be breached.

Any less than this is contempt for yourself and your family.
COVID-19 (and its carriers) might be eradicated with nuclear weapons.

Victoria
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Finridge
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Finridge »

tadamsmar wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:28 am

It seems that even the CDC does not seem to have a completely rational position on mask wearing.

They recommend it for those with covid-19 but not for the flu:

When it comes to the "consumer issues" of preparing for coronavirus, masks are probably an item that near the to of the list as to what we're thinking about--I know I am. Many of us have a good idea of what we should have for disasters and have pre-existing disaster kits. But most us don't have a supply of masks/respirators at home (except maybe a few for going under the crawlspace or something like that). So I suppose discussions of masks are inevitable.

The CDC's recommendations on protective gear are interesting are interesting. And it's clear that if your question is "What can I do as an individual to *maximize* my chances of not catching the coronavirus?", they are NOT giving you any answers to that, and do not intend to. That's not the criteria they are using in giving their advice.

Rather they are recommending what they see as *reasonable* taking into account both costs and benefits, and I would expect this includes concern that people will spend money and resources on items unwisely, as well as stockpile or "buy out" items that professional health care workers rely on. And they also take into account the likelihood that they think the gear may not be used properly, may confer false confidence and have people go out more and into riskier situations than they otherwise would. I have read that there is particular concern regarding N95 respirators, with people not fitting them properly or taking them off too much because they are hot, hard to breath through, uncomfortable, etc. (Note: Also their use of a cost/benefit analysis explains why their recommendations regarding protective gear for COVID-19 are different for that they recommend for the flu. Even if we assume they are just as contagious and can be caught in the same way via airborne water droplets coughed up - the consequences of each are very different. So I would not see this as irrational--you just have to understand their approach.)

A summary of some of the CDC positions on masks/respirators I am seeing:
  • For professionals seeing COVID-19 patients - they'd like to see these people in full protective gear: Goggles, N95 respirators, gloves, gowns. Makes sense, if you're seeing symptomatic patients all day you can expect you will have COVID-19 coughed at you all day, and day after day--you'd want to try to maximize your protection to this. I see they also recommend having the patients wear facemasks (cheap disposable surgical masks) - again to reduce the amount of airborne virus-containing droplets.
  • However, for a layperson taking care of a COVID-19 patient in a home setting (for example if your spouse is sick with coronavirus at home and you are taking care of him/her), they do not recommend all that gear. Rather they recommend that you have the patient wear a facemask (again, a cheap disposable surgical mask) while you are in the room. (And they recommend the patient be kept in a separate room apart from all other people/pets, etc. and preferably with his/her own separate bathroom). But if the patient cannot wear a facemask for any reason while you are in the room, then the CDC recommends you wear one. Bottomline, when you are at home in close physical proximity with someone sick with COVID-19 the CDC would prefer that one of you wear a facemask--ideally the sick person. (So it seems the CDC sees facemasks by themselves as not being completely useless, at least in this particular situation.
  • For just going out in public they have no recommendation that you wear a facemask. But note, this does not mean they are recommending against them--just that they have no recommendation that you wear one. Likely, the do not see justified under their cost/benefit analysis.
But again, they are NOT providing advice on how to *maximize* your protection against COVID-19, so if that is more what you have in mind, you have to do your own research and draw your own conclusions. At the end of the day, each of us should be reading the professional advice of the CDC and other professionals, and then should make our own informed decisions as to what we want to do. This will need to be based on our own cost/benefit analysis which will in turn be informed by our own attitudes towards risk/reward.

But the CDC advise is probably a good starting point. And if you're going to follow the CDC's guidance and you think you might have to provide home care to someone in your household that is sick with COVID-19, then you'll need to obtain facemasks to do this.
Last edited by Finridge on Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
richmondthefish
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by richmondthefish »

Watty wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:27 am A lot of the posts mentioned how effective a mask might be in protecting a wearer but they may be asking the wrong question and be missing a big point.

You also need to look at it the other way around and look at how effective masks are at protecting people around you from catching something that you might have especially when you cough or sneeze.



Great points. Especially if you are younger and healthy and you do not want to impact older folks.
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VictoriaF
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by VictoriaF »

Finridge wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:55 pm A summaryof some of the CDC positions on masks/respirators I am seeing:

For professionals seeing COVID-19 patients - they'd like to see these people in full protective gear: Googles, N95 respirators, gloves, gowns. ...
Googles are good, but Goggles are better,

Victoria
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Finridge
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Finridge »

VictoriaF wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:44 pm
Finridge wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:55 pm A summaryof some of the CDC positions on masks/respirators I am seeing:

For professionals seeing COVID-19 patients - they'd like to see these people in full protective gear: Googles, N95 respirators, gloves, gowns. ...
Googles are good, but Goggles are better,

Victoria
I'd have to disagree. I prefer googles to goggles. Especially googles of goggles. :-)

But duly noted and fixed. :-)
softwaregeek
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by softwaregeek »

I have definitely changed my mind on this one.

So far, I have gotten the following:

1. 50 N95 masks
2. 3M Respirator
3. 50 surgical masks
4. 5 large cans Lysol
5. bleach cleaner
6. laundry disinfectant
7. 5 white Tyvek suits
8. 3 plastic goggles
9. 1 package shoe covers
10. Some additional canned food (15 cans of tuna, 10 cans of soup, 5 cans of veggies)
11. Toilet paper
12. Bottle of tylenol
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TomCat96
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by TomCat96 »

softwaregeek wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:02 pm I have definitely changed my mind on this one.

So far, I have gotten the following:

1. 50 N95 masks
2. 3M Respirator
3. 50 surgical masks
4. 5 large cans Lysol
5. bleach cleaner
6. laundry disinfectant
7. 5 white Tyvek suits
8. 3 plastic goggles
9. 1 package shoe covers
10. Some additional canned food (15 cans of tuna, 10 cans of soup, 5 cans of veggies)
11. Toilet paper
12. Bottle of tylenol
Did you find shortages in any of the above?
softwaregeek
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by softwaregeek »

I had to pay a little more for the surgical masks. I can get more but I have to buy 600 from the Mfg. Couldn’t get more n95 at any price before may. Lysol and tyvek suits, gloves and booties from Home Depot. Sanitizer is mostly sold out but amazon has it for not too much money. Laundry disinfectanT, oddly enough sold at the grocery store.

I will probably go out and buy some more laundry disinfectant, bleach, gloves and hand soap. It doesn’t go bad and I will use it eventually regardless. You can never have too much toilet paper either.
Last edited by softwaregeek on Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Toons »

As of Now
Nothing 😎
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ResearchMed
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by ResearchMed »

softwaregeek wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:30 pm I had to pay a little more for the surgical masks. I can get more but I have to buy 600 from the Mfg. Couldn’t get more n95 at any price before may. Lysol and tyvek suits, gloves and booties from Home Depot. Sanitizer is mostly sold out but amazon has it for not too much money.
You are serious about the Tyvek suits? What are you planning to use them for, or is this a "just in case" portion of the prepping?

As for availability of such supplies, we were at our physician's office yesterday.
At the front door there is a sign asking that anyone with a fever, coughing, sneezing, etc., to please put on a mask.
There used to be a box of them on that table.
Now there are just a handful of them, if that... maybe 3 or 4.
I'm not sure if they are running low, or if they noticed that the waiting room supplies (or entire box?) were disappearing much too fast...

RM
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softwaregeek
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by softwaregeek »

I had one tyvek suits, which I used in the attic to exterminate rats.

Bought a few more since they are cheap now but I think impossible to get if panic comes here. Not that it’s a panacea, I just want to be equipped for an Italy style lockdown. I live in a very heavily Asian neighborhood. I mean, how can you lock a town down without going out to get groceries? Even in Wuhan they had to send people out every other day.

Edit: They are sold in the painting section of Home Depot for about $12. So not a huge investment. I'll probably use them to paint the bathroom next year or somethign.
Last edited by softwaregeek on Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
bitdocmd
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by bitdocmd »

Toons wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:31 pm As of Now
Nothing 😎
Toons,

I hope you are not in Mr. Lee’s homeland tonight. 😁

bitdocmd
Marlon Marlin
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Marlon Marlin »

Guys are making a mint selling masks they got for ten cents each in bulk for ten bucks each now.

I'm mostly stocking up on stuff we usually buy just in case the stores get wiped out or we don't want to go to them. Amazon delivery drivers must be unhappy campers nowadays.
Some people are so poor, all they have is money.
AlphaLess
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by AlphaLess »

Finridge wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:25 am
AlphaLess wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:16 am
I did not provide advice. I merely stated that a simple face mask is not going to help you. ...
I suggest we not debate this here. I'm no expert. Simply noting that your advice conflicts with the CDC's advice.

Over the last several days, the CDC has put up a lot of information for both consumers and health professionals here:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... ities.html
Ok. Please point out how what CDC says conflicts with what I say.

Simply putting a quote to a long text does not do that.
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RubyTuesday
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by RubyTuesday »

softwaregeek wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:30 pm I had to pay a little more for the surgical masks. I can get more but I have to buy 600 from the Mfg. Couldn’t get more n95 at any price before may. Lysol and tyvek suits, gloves and booties from Home Depot. Sanitizer is mostly sold out but amazon has it for not too much money. Laundry disinfectanT, oddly enough sold at the grocery store.

I will probably go out and buy some more laundry disinfectant, bleach, gloves and hand soap. It doesn’t go bad and I will use it eventually regardless. You can never have too much toilet paper either.
N95 respirators (3M and another brand) available on shelf at small hardware store. Lowe’s and Home Depot were OOS.
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Leemiller
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Leemiller »

Finridge wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:53 pm
VictoriaF wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:44 pm
Finridge wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:55 pm A summaryof some of the CDC positions on masks/respirators I am seeing:

For professionals seeing COVID-19 patients - they'd like to see these people in full protective gear: Googles, N95 respirators, gloves, gowns. ...
Googles are good, but Goggles are better,

Victoria
I'd have to disagree. I prefer googles to goggles. Especially googles of goggles. :-)

But duly noted and fixed. :-)
This gives me the giggles.
bighatnohorse
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by bighatnohorse »

Avoiding public restrooms by peeing before leaving home.
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MP123
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by MP123 »

bighatnohorse wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:52 pm Avoiding public restrooms by peeing before leaving home.
Always a sound decision! :D
softwaregeek
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by softwaregeek »

Weirdly enough, Safeway cashier says masks are available behind the pharmacy counter but you have to know to ask for them.
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whodidntante
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by whodidntante »

VictoriaF wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:26 am
canadianbacon wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:15 am
klondike wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:51 pm So far I haven't done anything special yet. But if things get ugly, i.e. social disorder or cops don't respond to 911 calls...
I would add the following to your list:

a) acquire some pistols for personal defense.
b) acquire assault rifles which is legal to your state, for long range defense in urban environment.
c) acquire shotgun, good for close quarters defense.
d) truck load of ammunitions.
e) go practice target shooting, both stationary and moving regularly.
It is sad how woefully unprepared you are. I would consider the following a prudent minimum:

a) landmines on front and back lawn
b) anti-tank artillery positioned from an upper-floor window
c) moat filled with crocodiles (alternate animal substitutions may be made based on region)
d) loudspeaker playing The Most Unwanted Song on repeat at high volume (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gPuH1yeZ08)
e) cyanide pills for everyone should the defences ultimately be breached.

Any less than this is contempt for yourself and your family.
COVID-19 (and its carriers) might be eradicated with nuclear weapons.

Victoria
COVID-19 seems to live in human hosts. I think we know what must be done.
IMO
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by IMO »

alfaspider wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:46 am
IMO wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:38 pm Personally, we are not doing anything. However, advised my elderly parents to not go to their local Costco. This particular Costco has an extremely high percentage of Chinese Americans (think similar to being in Chinatown areas). Basically one has to figure because of this there is a much higher possibility that someone in this Costco had traveled to China or had family members recently travel to China. Simply not worth the risk for elderly who are more likely to not survive an infection with this Coronavirus.
Your parents are still likely at more risk driving to Costco than contracting a disease there. If they DID die of a disease they contracted at Costco, it would be far more likely to be the flu.

One small silver lining of this Coronavirus nonsense is that the asian supermarket near my house is not nearly as crowded on Saturday afternoons as it usually is. Nice way to get grocery shopping done quick, and the food court is amazing.
Sure. But at least they can lower their risk of flu by getting vaccinated. Don't worry, I'm sure that particular Costco is still a zoo if they don't shop there.
3504PIR
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by 3504PIR »

I’m sure everyone in an urban environment is essentially screwed if this gets out of hand. Instead of focusing on the virus, think about the effects of the virus in relation to your day to day lives regarding commerce. After reading today in the WSJ about ultra wealthy prepping, I went on amazon and literally found freeze dried foods going out of stock real time. As in 3 left in stock followed by out of stock. Northern Italy is shut down, and Italians are daily shoppers. If this goes into the next stage, global and perhaps national commerce will be effected way beyond the actual threat of contracting the virus. That is the threat.
GeoffD
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by GeoffD »

softwaregeek wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:02 pm I have definitely changed my mind on this one.

So far, I have gotten the following:

1. 50 N95 masks
2. 3M Respirator
3. 50 surgical masks
4. 5 large cans Lysol
5. bleach cleaner
6. laundry disinfectant
7. 5 white Tyvek suits
8. 3 plastic goggles
9. 1 package shoe covers
10. Some additional canned food (15 cans of tuna, 10 cans of soup, 5 cans of veggies)
11. Toilet paper
12. Bottle of tylenol
So mercury poisoning from the canned tuna? :)
Jackson12
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Jackson12 »

TomCat96 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:56 pm We have a number of threads on Coronavirus, but I want this one to specifically focus on consumer issues and how you are preparing.

The way I see it, risk of infection is not the same as risk of quarantine; or to put things even more broadly, risk of weathering the effects of quarantine. I do not need to be exposed to be quarantined, I don't even need to be around people who are exposed. All that need happen is that I be around people who are suspected of being exposed.

In the same vein, one does not need to be hit by a hurricane to weather shortages in supplies.

My prep so far:

1. Stocking up on disposable N95 masks. Easier said than done.
2. Stocking up on all non-perishable consumables. (Lotion, Toilet Paper, Paper Towels, etc)
3. Stocking up on long lasting consumables. Rice, Oatmeal, water, cereal, peanut butter, wine, dried meats, oil & spices, beans.


What if anything are you doing to prepare?

Edited:
Additional things I am doing.
-Moving up doctors appointments and lab tests. I tend to procrastinate on my checkups anyways.
-Picking up extra HEPA air filters.
Our supplies are tailored to meet the needs of our most vulnerable family member, someone who is over 65 and has a significant auto- immune disorder. If we were in our 20s and had young children, we would have extra food and water, medications, cleaning supplies, etc on hand.. We already wash our hands regularly...and often. It we’d consider our risk of death low,

Given our situation, we’ve gone beyond the above steps. We not only have food, water, cleaning supplies, toilet paper, batteries, extra medications, etc..,but have purchased:
1. Disposable gloves
2. Shoe covers
3. Masks ( mostly for the vulnerable family member) .
4. Soaps and shampoos that can be used without getting out of bed.
5. Disposable thermometer covers
6. Hair covers ( disposable)
7. Hospital quality Goggles to protect eyes ( vulnerable to infection)
8.Hand sanitizer and portable hand sanitizer wipes.
9. Disposable clothing. .
20. Extra HEPA air filters for our bedroom air purifier ( no illusions that the purifier will stop the virus but we use it already and it helps with allergies, etc. )

We have no illusions that we can seal ourselves off from risk. We can perhaps lower it. A major concern is whether urgent care will be needed For the host of possible complications the family member has endure and could face in coming months.We would them need to weigh the risks of going to a hospital or doctors office if the virus has become rampant
..or stay home and take a wait and see approach.

Not asking for medical advice here, Just noting the element of luck that is inevitable with even the best prep.
soundwave
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by soundwave »

bob60014 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:58 pm I don't understand the panic peddling that is occurring. Common sense is more important than stocking up, which makes no sense whatsoever, especially regarding the masks. Wash your hands frequently, do not shake hands with others and cover your mouth when coughing. All basic stuff.
And please, cough & sneeze into your inner elbow rather than into your hand. Always.
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nisiprius
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by nisiprius »

Irony ahead. The CDC has said to "prepare" but has only offered two specific ideas on how: "that people ask whether they could telecommute; and that people find out if their health care providers offer a telemedicine option."

"Hey, boss, will the company pay to have three-phase current brought into my house, and is there a $89,000, 120-mm, 180-pound "Popocatepl" Systemat I could take home with me?"

"Hey, boss, I drive an Amazon Prime van for all the people who don't want to leave their house to buy stuff. Is there a way I can telecommute?"

The last time we were hit with serious flu, the doctor told me to take my wife to the ER for IV fluids if her temperature didn't come down within an hour. "So, is there a way to give IV fluids by telemedicine?"

I think they are talking mostly about mental preparation.
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Ramjet
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Ramjet »

Toons wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:31 pm As of Now
Nothing 😎
There is a good chance the zombies will be eradicated before they reach the hills of Tennessee anyways
Last edited by Ramjet on Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by abuss368 »

No panic at all and will stay calm. How much is this because of the news?
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alfaspider
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by alfaspider »

nisiprius wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:48 am Irony ahead. The CDC has said to "prepare" but has only offered two specific ideas on how: "that people ask whether they could telecommute; and that people find out if their health care providers offer a telemedicine option."

"Hey, boss, will the company pay to have three-phase current brought into my house, and is there a $89,000, 120-mm, 180-pound "Popocatepl" Systemat I could take home with me?"

"Hey, boss, I drive an Amazon Prime van for all the people who don't want to leave their house to buy stuff. Is there a way I can telecommute?"

The last time we were hit with serious flu, the doctor told me to take my wife to the ER for IV fluids if her temperature didn't come down within an hour. "So, is there a way to give IV fluids by telemedicine?"

I think they are talking mostly about mental preparation.
I think people have a deep seated psychological need to do *something* even when there's not much to do. Public officials are not immune to that urge as their constituents will also demand that *something* be done.
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Ramjet
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Ramjet »

abuss368 wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:56 am How much is this because of the news?
Good question!
fru-gal
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by fru-gal »

Toons wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:31 pm As of Now
Nothing 😎
I have plain masks on hand because I don't deal with regular respiratory stuff well. I am always stocked upon food and meds and paper products, batteries, etc.

I'm really not going crazy about this. On the one hand federal officials are sounding scary alarms, on the other hand 34 people in the US out of 300,000,000 are infected.

I'm in the age group where the death rate is high, so that does make me nervous, but there have been plenty of alarming possibilities that turned out to be nothing in the past. Remember the swine flu fiasco.
J45
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by J45 »

Its interesting to see how all of us have different levels of anxiety. Some are packed with masks and bleach, and ready to go. Other have done nothing. Certainly, its on everyone's mind.

So whats my or family's risk? Age? Pre-existing diseases? Bad immune system? 70yo grandpa at home? Asthma and COPD? Work in hospital? Interact with lots of people everyday?

Without all that, its just a regular flu with slightly higher risk. Yahoo had a study from China that said kids are not affected severely. Its worst for geriatric population.

I am not expert on infectious disease but I think masks don't do much unless you have gloves. But you will still touch thousands of surfaces where other people have placed their hands e.g. door knobs, grocery store, bags, carts, elevators, subways, keys, uber etc. There are millions of things unless you go into a bubble :D

My biggest worry is about "broken supply chain" in case of long quarantines which may happen sporadically, more likely in crowded cities. But its still very less likely.

So all I need to worry about it that I have food for family that I can use for 2-3 weeks without going to a crowded place when there is a possibility of sick people around me. That will be needed only if there are active cases in area where you live.
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Sandtrap »

People in Hawaii prepare for anything; birthday parties, weddings, luau's, natural disasters, with canned SPAM.
so. . . .
Toilet Paper
Bottled Water
Batteries
Plastic Tarps
Duct Tape
canned SPAM

j :happy
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remomnyc
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by remomnyc »

Not doing anything to prepare, but I have stopped shaking hands and started waving hello when I greet people where I volunteer. I also make my kids wash their hands as soon as they come home.
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