Best Oil?

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28fe6
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by 28fe6 »

Lookingforanswers wrote: Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:39 am Picking motor oils for car is simple. Debating the proper oil and technique for lubricating a bicycle chain is truly controversial and will set off Internet debates like nothing else.
Actually there is a good amount of science on bicycle chain lubrication. Most people ignore it, and keep doing what their religion requires, but if you look at the science, it is comes down to hot wax vs. everything else. Hot wax is simultaneously lowest friction, lowest wear, and longest lasting. It is also nearly the cheapest. I have a croc-pot full of cheap canning wax that will probably last me until I'm dead. All other chain lubes basically don't make a positive difference, even compared to a dry chain.

It's not relevant to most modern bicycles, but a continuous oil both in a chain-case might be better than hot wax.
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OldBallCoach
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by OldBallCoach »

Sandtrap wrote: Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:21 pm
OldBallCoach wrote: Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:17 am
Sandtrap wrote: Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:55 am IMHO whatever oil is the factory recommended one from the start, then don't change it.
IE: Mobil One 0-20 full synthetic or OEM Toyota oil (if dealer serviced) for my Toyota Tundra 5.8L

There has been mention on car forums about switching from higher viscosity regular motor oil on older vehicles to full synthetic resulting in gasket seal leaks.

OTOH: I have always changed the oil on my trucks regularly and with the best products, but DW takes her used cars to any quick oil change place with a discount. (not the latest new one though) And, all our cars seem to survive. Go figure. . . . . . :oops:

I do occasionally use the oil lab diagnostic services available online and they are reassuring that I'm doing things right.

Actionably: The "best oil filter" might be as important as "the best oil".

j :happy
Let me clarify...I am going to use the 0w20 weight as they recommend but I am going to use Mobil One Extended Full synthetic instead of the Pennzoil blend synthetic that the dealer is now using. I do oil samples every 50K as part of their service package. Kinda interesting to see how these gas guzzling V8s hold up...LOL..knock on wood but in 1.2 Million miles of driving these over my last 5 LCs I have never touched an engine repair, timing belts and fluid changes seem to do the job. You will want a very good gas rebate card as well...! :D
What is the difference between Mobil One "Extended" vs not extended Full Synthetic oil?

I did an oil analysis on my Tundra used oil awhile back (Blackstone Labs) and the recommendation was that I could change my oil every 12,000 miles or more and it would be fine and that at every 10k was fine but not needed.
What are your thoughts on this?

j :happy
To be honest I dont know what the difference is in the extended version but it says it is good for 15K and since I aim for 10K and sometimes go 11-12K I figured why not. Most of my driving is highway so maybe I over think it but...it just works so..
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willthrill81
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by willthrill81 »

basspond wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:01 pm I know of an acquaintance who used his company's synthetic oil and had a car he could switch out the oil filter without draining the oil. He put over 100,000 miles on the oil with no engine issues. The synthetic oil will lubricate a long time, but the gunk that floats around in it will destroy your engine.
You can do that with most vehicles (i.e. change the filter without changing all the oil, just topping it back off). But my concern is that I'm not convinced that the oil filter is actually filtering out all of the particles that would eventually damage the engine. Also, I'm changing my oil at manufacturer recommended intervals in order to keep the warranty intact. If nothing else, it's pretty cheap insurance.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by abuss368 »

We follow all of the vehicles planned maintenance and use the dealers.
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Cubicle
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by Cubicle »

Hogan773 wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:49 pmLet's turn it into an oil FILTER thread and now get out the popcorn!
Fram is trash. Wix is very good. K&N & Mobil & Bosch (the extra fancy ones) are better but not worth their premium price.

I burnt my microwave popcorn.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by myleaf »

willthrill81 wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:51 pm
basspond wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:01 pm I know of an acquaintance who used his company's synthetic oil and had a car he could switch out the oil filter without draining the oil. He put over 100,000 miles on the oil with no engine issues. The synthetic oil will lubricate a long time, but the gunk that floats around in it will destroy your engine.
You can do that with most vehicles (i.e. change the filter without changing all the oil, just topping it back off). But my concern is that I'm not convinced that the oil filter is actually filtering out all of the particles that would eventually damage the engine. Also, I'm changing my oil at manufacturer recommended intervals in order to keep the warranty intact. If nothing else, it's pretty cheap insurance.
oil contains anti-wear additives that gets depleted in use. Once depleted the moving metal parts in your engine will start to wear faster. I recommend following the vehicle manufacturers recommendation for oil type and change interval.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by criticalmass »

OldBallCoach wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:21 am Does anyone have a link to research showing what the best oil is for normal street driving car/suv...I have used Mobil One for as long as I can remember and my LC went into Toyota yesterday for its normal 10K service and they told he they were switching to using Pennzoil Pure synthetic as it was a natural gas product and they believe it is a better product. Well I said that thats cool, but fill my baby with Mobil One this time and let me do some research.
Do you mean a Toyota dealership ? And they are switching to Pennzoil because it is a "natural gas product???" That's cute. Natural gas isn't synthetic. Natural gas is a fossil fuel, hence the word natural. Shell, Exxon Mobil, and probably 30+ other companies have sold oil made from natural gas over the years.

The truth is, it really doesn't matter. Both oils will be just fine in your normal street driving cars. But beware of marketing and sales based on what "they believe." Ask for real data that is pertinent to your situation, not what they learned at the last sales lunch presentation.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by puc_ytpme »

Teague wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:58 pm Extra-virgin olive oil. Peanut oil. Sewing machine oil. Penetrating oil. Whale oil.

Those are not good choices.
:D , LOL
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by Hogan773 »

Cubicle wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:55 pm
Hogan773 wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:49 pmLet's turn it into an oil FILTER thread and now get out the popcorn!
Fram is trash. Wix is very good. K&N & Mobil & Bosch (the extra fancy ones) are better but not worth their premium price.

I burnt my microwave popcorn.
You may be joking and if so, fine

But Fram ULTRA is arguably the best oil filter out there especially for the price. It's all I use now.

The funny thing about oil and oil filter debates is when you step back, any normal good quality engine these days should last 200K or more easily if you just make sure it has oil and gets changed on time. Beyond that there is a lot of marketing and a lot of internet "truths" about what is the best. For example while I do believe that Fram Ultra is a great filter for a variety of reasons, I wouldn't go so far as to say that if I use it, it will impart magical qualities to my car. And since my current 10yr old car has a whopping 75K miles, any car I own will be long gone before I would ever worry that the type of oil filter I used is impacting my ability to get more miles out of my vehicle.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by WhiteMaxima »

2x 5K miles semi synthetic OCI is better than 1x 10 mile synthetic oil change. Based on Bobistheoilguy. Toyota 0W20 and Mobil One 0W20 EP are Group IV based synthetic oil. For high mileage LC, use GC 0W30 for extended protection,
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dm200
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by dm200 »

Since taxicabs generally put on a lot of miles with mostly in city driving, I wonder what a well informed cab company uses in their cab fleets?

With a fleet of cabs, I believe that if one type or brand of oil is "better" (meaning the cabs last longer and need fewer repairs), a little more spent on oil would mean bigger profits (or lower losses these days with Uber and Lyft).

There are also probably other industries where the long life (and fewer repairs) of vehicles greatly affects the "bottom line". Any ideas on that? Maybe UPS or FedEx delivery trucks/vans?

What about the Post Office? They have fleets of small vehicles and drive them a lot of miles for a lot of years.

I don't think car rental companies are as affected because they tend to not keep cars for many years.

I hear a LOT of advertising of these higher priced oil products - touting "synthetic" or "made from natural gas" and so on. Sometimes such advertising is correct and sometimes not.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by Teague »

dm200 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:19 pm Since taxicabs generally put on a lot of miles with mostly in city driving, I wonder what a well informed cab company uses in their cab fleets?

With a fleet of cabs, I believe that if one type or brand of oil is "better" (meaning the cabs last longer and need fewer repairs), a little more spent on oil would mean bigger profits (or lower losses these days with Uber and Lyft).
The thing about that as I see it is that their operating conditions will be very different than the usual consumer. Long periods of idling punctuated by bat-out-of-Hades operation, tons of stop-and-go, maybe operating 24/7 with shiftwork drivers, and a maintenance schedule that is atypical. Would make for a difficult comparison, I believe.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by ncbill »

Teague wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:26 pm
dm200 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:19 pm Since taxicabs generally put on a lot of miles with mostly in city driving, I wonder what a well informed cab company uses in their cab fleets?

With a fleet of cabs, I believe that if one type or brand of oil is "better" (meaning the cabs last longer and need fewer repairs), a little more spent on oil would mean bigger profits (or lower losses these days with Uber and Lyft).
The thing about that as I see it is that their operating conditions will be very different than the usual consumer. Long periods of idling punctuated by bat-out-of-Hades operation, tons of stop-and-go, maybe operating 24/7 with shiftwork drivers, and a maintenance schedule that is atypical. Would make for a difficult comparison, I believe.
Sounds like the highway patrol vehicles here...last time I looked at surplus Crown Vics their only regular maintenance was a monthly oil change...doubt they'd bother with synthetic...then they got sold after a year (~120,000/miles, so ~10,000 miles per month)...around 1/3 were described as "transmission issues"
Malingerer
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by Malingerer »

Use the manufacturers recommended viscosity. Other than that, when the engine is stone cold, check the dipstick, as it is far more likely you have a problem with too little oil (newer engine burn oil, older leak them).

Change the oil every 7500 or 5000 if there is a lot of city driving.

Every BITOG thread will get into endless loops of needless discussion about whether pennzoil or Mobil have better oils. Both synthetics are outstanding.

Fram ultra filters are fantastic
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snackdog
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by snackdog »

Teague wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:58 pm Extra-virgin olive oil. Peanut oil. Sewing machine oil. Penetrating oil. Whale oil.
I tried Whale Oil in my car but it knocked like hell.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by CppCoder »

I work for an oil company that sells one of these products. I always use...wait for it...whichever fully synthetic the shop has in stock. I'm sure my friend in marketing would be mortified. I think the Honda place around here has a deal with Penzoil, so that's what goes in the Honda...

Gasoline, on the other hand, is a different story. I always fill up with our brand, but that's because we get an employee discount. We probably get a discount on the motor oil too, but I can't be bothered to bring my own bottle to the oil change place.
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Nate79
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by Nate79 »

The best oil is free or very reduced price due to rebates. We always buy oil when there is a rebate, mostly Pennzoil and Mobil 1 synthetics.

Current Pennzoil rebate offering:
https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/promotio ... ZGV4LmNmbQ
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jabberwockOG
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by jabberwockOG »

The major oil brands sell full synthetic oils that are basically indistinguishable from each other. Use the correct weight and spec rating as stated in your car's manual and any major brand high quality synthetic oil will work just fine.

I buy any of the major brand full syn oils (Castrol, M1, Pennzoil) when they are on sale and have a rebate going and stock up. As a relevant example, last week Amazon had Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage 5w-30 on sale for $16.68 for a 5 quart jug. There is also a $22 shell gas rebate card available on that purchase. So order the oil, and Shell pays you back 100% for 5 quarts of oil plus apprx $5 extra.

As an aside, for the last few years I have also been using Fram Ultra filters (with approx. 6k OCI) with good results. Be aware that other lower cost models of Fram oil filters are generally rated pretty low.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by Cubicle »

Hogan773 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:37 pmYou may be joking and if so, fine

But Fram ULTRA is arguably the best oil filter out there especially for the price. It's all I use now.

The funny thing about oil and oil filter debates is when you step back, any normal good quality engine these days should last 200K or more easily if you just make sure it has oil and gets changed on time. Beyond that there is a lot of marketing and a lot of internet "truths" about what is the best. For example while I do believe that Fram Ultra is a great filter for a variety of reasons, I wouldn't go so far as to say that if I use it, it will impart magical qualities to my car. And since my current 10yr old car has a whopping 75K miles, any car I own will be long gone before I would ever worry that the type of oil filter I used is impacting my ability to get more miles out of my vehicle.
Ehhhh... I wasn't. I don't trust Honeywell & Fram. But I have nothing against those who are comfortable with them. But more to your other points, I 100% agree that almost any combination of manufacturer spec oil & filter, on modern engines, changed on time as specified by the manufacturer, will last far longer than most people would keep their car.

One thing about me is I put so few miles on my cars yearly, I don't spend the big bucks. I put 800 miles on one of my cars in 1 year. But I had to do an oil & filter change because the oil & filter were 1 year old. So middle of the road works, personally, for me.

For the average driver, I honestly think SuperTech synthetic oil & Wix filters would serve them well for many hundreds of thousands of miles.
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squirm
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by squirm »

I use the cheapest oil filters and oil, sometimes wally worlds special. we drive 40k a year, easily and probably drive way more than most posters here. all of our cars over the past 20 years racked up over 150k miles before decided to sell them for something else...so we've gone through quite a few cars too. never had an issue and i changed the oil myself...
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by Hogan773 »

Cubicle wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:40 pm
Hogan773 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:37 pmYou may be joking and if so, fine

But Fram ULTRA is arguably the best oil filter out there especially for the price. It's all I use now.

The funny thing about oil and oil filter debates is when you step back, any normal good quality engine these days should last 200K or more easily if you just make sure it has oil and gets changed on time. Beyond that there is a lot of marketing and a lot of internet "truths" about what is the best. For example while I do believe that Fram Ultra is a great filter for a variety of reasons, I wouldn't go so far as to say that if I use it, it will impart magical qualities to my car. And since my current 10yr old car has a whopping 75K miles, any car I own will be long gone before I would ever worry that the type of oil filter I used is impacting my ability to get more miles out of my vehicle.
Ehhhh... I wasn't. I don't trust Honeywell & Fram. But I have nothing against those who are comfortable with them. But more to your other points, I 100% agree that almost any combination of manufacturer spec oil & filter, on modern engines, changed on time as specified by the manufacturer, will last far longer than most people would keep their car.

One thing about me is I put so few miles on my cars yearly, I don't spend the big bucks. I put 800 miles on one of my cars in 1 year. But I had to do an oil & filter change because the oil & filter were 1 year old. So middle of the road works, personally, for me.

For the average driver, I honestly think SuperTech synthetic oil & Wix filters would serve them well for many hundreds of thousands of miles.
Consider yourself educated - Fram ULTRA is a great filter and can be had for $7.99 at various places including (I think) Walmart. Your thinking likely comes from the old saw that the Fram orange filters are cheap crap with cardboard endcaps etc.

I like to use Fram because I actually only change the filter every other OC. These filters can probably run 20K miles easily, so I have been putting around 12K on them because my Hondas seem to come due around 6K miles for the maintenance minder on the car. Just makes that second oil change even faster and cleaner. I know most people want to get a new filter "just to be safe" and that's fine but the Honda manual actually calls for the filter to be changed every other change.
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White Coat Investor
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by White Coat Investor »

The main thing is to make sure there is oil in the engine and that you put the cap back on tight. Ask me how I know. :)
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by Hogan773 »

White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:27 pm The main thing is to make sure there is oil in the engine and that you put the cap back on tight. Ask me how I know. :)
Jiffy Lube did that to me many many years ago. "What is that burning oil smell" I thought as I was driving through the city that afternoon. Oh, nice, no oil cap at all and a nice baked-on layer of oil mist all over the engine bay.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by TBillT »

In the USA we tend to change oil often so that tends to equal the playing field.
I get the impression that Europeans may go for more expensive long drain synthetic oils.
I would look at specs looking for A1/B1 A5/B5 which can be hard to find in the lower 20W visc range.
If you find it the question becomes if you need the expense of it.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by TheOscarGuy »

I am surprised this thread isn't locked yet, I thought religion is off limits :D
I just put the synthetic oil the manufacturer recommends (brake oil, transmission oil etc.), or dealership has (for engine oil).
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by White Coat Investor »

Hogan773 wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:35 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:27 pm The main thing is to make sure there is oil in the engine and that you put the cap back on tight. Ask me how I know. :)
Jiffy Lube did that to me many many years ago. "What is that burning oil smell" I thought as I was driving through the city that afternoon. Oh, nice, no oil cap at all and a nice baked-on layer of oil mist all over the engine bay.
I believe the issue is that without the cap there isn't enough pressure to move the oil around where it needs to be. End result- same as driving a car without oil in it.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by Teague »

TheOscarGuy wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:05 pm I am surprised this thread isn't locked yet, I thought religion is off limits :D
I just put the synthetic oil the manufacturer recommends (brake oil, transmission oil etc.), or dealership has (for engine oil).
Brake oil? Hopefully not. :D
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by Teague »

White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:07 pm
Hogan773 wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:35 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:27 pm The main thing is to make sure there is oil in the engine and that you put the cap back on tight. Ask me how I know. :)
Jiffy Lube did that to me many many years ago. "What is that burning oil smell" I thought as I was driving through the city that afternoon. Oh, nice, no oil cap at all and a nice baked-on layer of oil mist all over the engine bay.
I believe the issue is that without the cap there isn't enough pressure to move the oil around where it needs to be. End result- same as driving a car without oil in it.
Nah, it just gets kicked out of the open hole by the rapid motion of the valve train and makes a big mess under the hood. That part of the system is not pressurized, and actually under a bit of a vacuum, to suck the combustion fumes that leaked past the rings back into the cylinders to be burned. That's the PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) system. Of course a missing oil cap messes that up, but doesn't have an effect on oil pressure.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by jabberwockOG »

Teague wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:00 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:07 pm
Hogan773 wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:35 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:27 pm The main thing is to make sure there is oil in the engine and that you put the cap back on tight. Ask me how I know. :)
Jiffy Lube did that to me many many years ago. "What is that burning oil smell" I thought as I was driving through the city that afternoon. Oh, nice, no oil cap at all and a nice baked-on layer of oil mist all over the engine bay.
I believe the issue is that without the cap there isn't enough pressure to move the oil around where it needs to be. End result- same as driving a car without oil in it.
Nah, it just gets kicked out of the open hole by the rapid motion of the valve train and makes a big mess under the hood. That part of the system is not pressurized, and actually under a bit of a vacuum, to suck the combustion fumes that leaked past the rings back into the cylinders to be burned. That's the PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) system. Of course a missing oil cap messes that up, but doesn't have an effect on oil pressure.

If you get oil mist all over the engine because a tech at a shop left the cap off by mistake get the engine steamed clean as soon as possible- that day if you can. If the oil is left on too long and is on the hoses, you can count on radiator, PS, AC and vacuum hoses to fail prematurely. Engine oil and rubber hoses do not play well together.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by bottlecap »

whodidntante wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:27 pm Mobil one in the correct weight and changed as the manufacturer recommends is fine for a toyota. The engine will live just as long as on any other oil. Honestly people really overthink motor oil for their boring vehicles.
Amen. Unless you have something that pushes the limits, as long as the oil is in spec, you'll be fine.

Don't get me wrong, reading about different oils can be fun. But I've run vehicles over 300,000 miles putting whatever dino oil was on sale in every 7 to 10 thousand miles.

I always chuckle to myself when people tell me that you need to put in a "really good" oil every three thousand miles to get more than 100,000 miles out of a vehicle. This ain't the 1970's. And it hasn't been for 40 years.

Don't sweat it.

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Re: Best Oil?

Post by bottlecap »

Teague wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:26 pm
dm200 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:19 pm Since taxicabs generally put on a lot of miles with mostly in city driving, I wonder what a well informed cab company uses in their cab fleets?

With a fleet of cabs, I believe that if one type or brand of oil is "better" (meaning the cabs last longer and need fewer repairs), a little more spent on oil would mean bigger profits (or lower losses these days with Uber and Lyft).
The thing about that as I see it is that their operating conditions will be very different than the usual consumer. Long periods of idling punctuated by bat-out-of-Hades operation, tons of stop-and-go, maybe operating 24/7 with shiftwork drivers, and a maintenance schedule that is atypical. Would make for a difficult comparison, I believe.
Twenty some odd years ago, CR did a test with a fleet of cabs, changing the oil every 10,000 miles in one set of cabs and 3,000 miles in the control set. After 100,000 miles, they tore down the engines and mic'd the pistons (or something like that). They found no appreciable difference and recommended ordinary drivers change dino oil every 7,500 miles under normal conditions (to be safe). This was before auto manufacturers moved off the 3,000 miles number, as I recall.

JT
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by White Coat Investor »

Teague wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:00 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:07 pm
Hogan773 wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:35 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:27 pm The main thing is to make sure there is oil in the engine and that you put the cap back on tight. Ask me how I know. :)
Jiffy Lube did that to me many many years ago. "What is that burning oil smell" I thought as I was driving through the city that afternoon. Oh, nice, no oil cap at all and a nice baked-on layer of oil mist all over the engine bay.
I believe the issue is that without the cap there isn't enough pressure to move the oil around where it needs to be. End result- same as driving a car without oil in it.
Nah, it just gets kicked out of the open hole by the rapid motion of the valve train and makes a big mess under the hood. That part of the system is not pressurized, and actually under a bit of a vacuum, to suck the combustion fumes that leaked past the rings back into the cylinders to be burned. That's the PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) system. Of course a missing oil cap messes that up, but doesn't have an effect on oil pressure.
I've only done it once, and the engine seized. Maybe it was coincidence. But my n=1. What is yours?
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by Teague »

White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:27 pm
Teague wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:00 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:07 pm
Hogan773 wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:35 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:27 pm The main thing is to make sure there is oil in the engine and that you put the cap back on tight. Ask me how I know. :)
Jiffy Lube did that to me many many years ago. "What is that burning oil smell" I thought as I was driving through the city that afternoon. Oh, nice, no oil cap at all and a nice baked-on layer of oil mist all over the engine bay.
I believe the issue is that without the cap there isn't enough pressure to move the oil around where it needs to be. End result- same as driving a car without oil in it.
Nah, it just gets kicked out of the open hole by the rapid motion of the valve train and makes a big mess under the hood. That part of the system is not pressurized, and actually under a bit of a vacuum, to suck the combustion fumes that leaked past the rings back into the cylinders to be burned. That's the PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) system. Of course a missing oil cap messes that up, but doesn't have an effect on oil pressure.
I've only done it once, and the engine seized. Maybe it was coincidence. But my n=1. What is yours?
Are you asking how many engines I've seized? The answer to that would be none.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by White Coat Investor »

Teague wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:31 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:27 pm
Teague wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:00 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:07 pm
Hogan773 wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:35 pm

Jiffy Lube did that to me many many years ago. "What is that burning oil smell" I thought as I was driving through the city that afternoon. Oh, nice, no oil cap at all and a nice baked-on layer of oil mist all over the engine bay.
I believe the issue is that without the cap there isn't enough pressure to move the oil around where it needs to be. End result- same as driving a car without oil in it.
Nah, it just gets kicked out of the open hole by the rapid motion of the valve train and makes a big mess under the hood. That part of the system is not pressurized, and actually under a bit of a vacuum, to suck the combustion fumes that leaked past the rings back into the cylinders to be burned. That's the PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) system. Of course a missing oil cap messes that up, but doesn't have an effect on oil pressure.
I've only done it once, and the engine seized. Maybe it was coincidence. But my n=1. What is yours?
Are you asking how many engines I've seized? The answer to that would be none.
No, how many times have you driven around for miles with the cap off.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
Teague
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by Teague »

White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:55 pm
Teague wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:31 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:27 pm
Teague wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:00 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:07 pm

I believe the issue is that without the cap there isn't enough pressure to move the oil around where it needs to be. End result- same as driving a car without oil in it.
Nah, it just gets kicked out of the open hole by the rapid motion of the valve train and makes a big mess under the hood. That part of the system is not pressurized, and actually under a bit of a vacuum, to suck the combustion fumes that leaked past the rings back into the cylinders to be burned. That's the PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) system. Of course a missing oil cap messes that up, but doesn't have an effect on oil pressure.
I've only done it once, and the engine seized. Maybe it was coincidence. But my n=1. What is yours?
Are you asking how many engines I've seized? The answer to that would be none.
No, how many times have you driven around for miles with the cap off.
Ah, I see. I've never done that. Nor is it on my to-do list.

Indeed, if you did that for long enough you could have lost enough oil to cause the engine to seize. It would be pretty hard not to notice some smoke or at least a strong odor from all the hot oil all over the engine compartment, and you'd have plenty of oil on the ground wherever you parked. And it would take quite a while to lose that much oil in that fashion. But is it possible? Well, sure, but you'd almost have to be wearing blinders and not have a sense of smell not to notice it. And any mechanic would instantly diagnose the problem once they opened the hood and saw the mess.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by dm200 »

bottlecap wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:49 pm
Teague wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:26 pm
dm200 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:19 pm Since taxicabs generally put on a lot of miles with mostly in city driving, I wonder what a well informed cab company uses in their cab fleets?
With a fleet of cabs, I believe that if one type or brand of oil is "better" (meaning the cabs last longer and need fewer repairs), a little more spent on oil would mean bigger profits (or lower losses these days with Uber and Lyft).
The thing about that as I see it is that their operating conditions will be very different than the usual consumer. Long periods of idling punctuated by bat-out-of-Hades operation, tons of stop-and-go, maybe operating 24/7 with shiftwork drivers, and a maintenance schedule that is atypical. Would make for a difficult comparison, I believe.
Twenty some odd years ago, CR did a test with a fleet of cabs, changing the oil every 10,000 miles in one set of cabs and 3,000 miles in the control set. After 100,000 miles, they tore down the engines and mic'd the pistons (or something like that). They found no appreciable difference and recommended ordinary drivers change dino oil every 7,500 miles under normal conditions (to be safe). This was before auto manufacturers moved off the 3,000 miles number, as I recall.
JT
Thanks for the reminder - I thought that CR had done something like this.

Yes - in this period, the automakers have increased the recommended oil changing mileage intervals. I think, though, they do recommend a time interval of no more than six months -- irrespective of mileage.

One possible (don't know for sure) benefit of more frequent oil/filter changes might also be that when the car is on the lift for the oil change, they might notice some other things that might be a problem as well.

I cannot remember the details now, but I recall a few years ago there was some kind of oil that was marketed and sold by individuals (much like Amway) that was alleged to be the best oil ever made.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by smitcat »

bottlecap wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:49 pm
Teague wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:26 pm
dm200 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:19 pm Since taxicabs generally put on a lot of miles with mostly in city driving, I wonder what a well informed cab company uses in their cab fleets?

With a fleet of cabs, I believe that if one type or brand of oil is "better" (meaning the cabs last longer and need fewer repairs), a little more spent on oil would mean bigger profits (or lower losses these days with Uber and Lyft).
The thing about that as I see it is that their operating conditions will be very different than the usual consumer. Long periods of idling punctuated by bat-out-of-Hades operation, tons of stop-and-go, maybe operating 24/7 with shiftwork drivers, and a maintenance schedule that is atypical. Would make for a difficult comparison, I believe.
Twenty some odd years ago, CR did a test with a fleet of cabs, changing the oil every 10,000 miles in one set of cabs and 3,000 miles in the control set. After 100,000 miles, they tore down the engines and mic'd the pistons (or something like that). They found no appreciable difference and recommended ordinary drivers change dino oil every 7,500 miles under normal conditions (to be safe). This was before auto manufacturers moved off the 3,000 miles number, as I recall.

JT
And if you buy and drive your cars like that fleet of cabs and check and change the oil at the same intervals I am sure you will get the same results.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by manuvns »

best oil/energy stock anyone ? that way i won't have to waste time on finding the best oil .
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by lazydavid »

dm200 wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:44 am I cannot remember the details now, but I recall a few years ago there was some kind of oil that was marketed and sold by individuals (much like Amway) that was alleged to be the best oil ever made.
Even has a similar name: Amsoil. I've used it for quite a few years. It's among the best, but it's not a "this is awesome and everything else is crap" sort of thing. I did, after all, just put Castrol Edge in my wife's Q7, and picked up some Penzoil Platinum Euro-L for my diesel BMW yesterday. As I said at the top of the thread, there are lots of excellent oils nowadays.

Amsoil did literally create the synthetic automobile engine oil category though, bringing the first one to market in 1972; and more of their lineup is true Group IV synthetic (PAO) than any of the other major players.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by quantAndHold »

The Sprinter, being a Mercedes diesel, requires something really specific. There’s only one manufacturer, although it’s rebranded a couple of times. So I use that.

The other cars are 15 year old Japanese beaters. I take them to a local mechanic I trust and whatever she puts in is what I use. Pretty sure that using whatever she uses isn’t the thing that will lead to the cars’ eventual demise.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by dm200 »

lazydavid wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:17 am
dm200 wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:44 am I cannot remember the details now, but I recall a few years ago there was some kind of oil that was marketed and sold by individuals (much like Amway) that was alleged to be the best oil ever made.
Even has a similar name: Amsoil. I've used it for quite a few years. It's among the best, but it's not a "this is awesome and everything else is crap" sort of thing. I did, after all, just put Castrol Edge in my wife's Q7, and picked up some Penzoil Platinum Euro-L for my diesel BMW yesterday. As I said at the top of the thread, there are lots of excellent oils nowadays.
Amsoil did literally create the synthetic automobile engine oil category though, bringing the first one to market in 1972; and more of their lineup is true Group IV synthetic (PAO) than any of the other major players.
Ah! Yes.. AMSOIL - Are they still distributing it, like Amway, with individuals??

I have not heard anything about AMSOIL in a long time.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by surfstar »

lazydavid wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:17 am and picked up some Penzoil Platinum Euro-L for my diesel BMW yesterday.
I assume you are aware, but in case you are not, Pennzoil rebate for $22 Shell gas gift card: https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/promotio ... -2020.html
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by lazydavid »

dm200 wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:25 am Ah! Yes.. AMSOIL - Are they still distributing it, like Amway, with individuals??

I have not heard anything about AMSOIL in a long time.
They do, but you can also order direct. I pay a nominal "preferred customer" charge, which lets me buy at prices similar to lower-tier dealers, and then I pick up at the Chicago distribution warehouse, which is about 15 minutes from my house. They'll also ship, but obviously there's a charge associated with that.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by lazydavid »

surfstar wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:34 am
lazydavid wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:17 am and picked up some Penzoil Platinum Euro-L for my diesel BMW yesterday.
I assume you are aware, but in case you are not, Pennzoil rebate for $22 Shell gas gift card: https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/promotio ... -2020.html
I was not aware, but thanks, that effectively makes it free. :)
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by surfstar »

lazydavid wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:49 am
surfstar wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:34 am
lazydavid wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:17 am and picked up some Penzoil Platinum Euro-L for my diesel BMW yesterday.
I assume you are aware, but in case you are not, Pennzoil rebate for $22 Shell gas gift card: https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/promotio ... -2020.html
I was not aware, but thanks, that effectively makes it free. :)
:sharebeer
...and we've come full circle and determined the best oil: Free.
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by White Coat Investor »

Teague wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:57 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:55 pm
Teague wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:31 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:27 pm
Teague wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:00 pm

Nah, it just gets kicked out of the open hole by the rapid motion of the valve train and makes a big mess under the hood. That part of the system is not pressurized, and actually under a bit of a vacuum, to suck the combustion fumes that leaked past the rings back into the cylinders to be burned. That's the PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) system. Of course a missing oil cap messes that up, but doesn't have an effect on oil pressure.
I've only done it once, and the engine seized. Maybe it was coincidence. But my n=1. What is yours?
Are you asking how many engines I've seized? The answer to that would be none.
No, how many times have you driven around for miles with the cap off.
Ah, I see. I've never done that. Nor is it on my to-do list.

Indeed, if you did that for long enough you could have lost enough oil to cause the engine to seize. It would be pretty hard not to notice some smoke or at least a strong odor from all the hot oil all over the engine compartment, and you'd have plenty of oil on the ground wherever you parked. And it would take quite a while to lose that much oil in that fashion. But is it possible? Well, sure, but you'd almost have to be wearing blinders and not have a sense of smell not to notice it. And any mechanic would instantly diagnose the problem once they opened the hood and saw the mess.
I didn't make it 15 miles before the engine started making a very abnormal sound.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by Teague »

White Coat Investor wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:27 pm
Teague wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:57 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:55 pm
Teague wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:31 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:27 pm

I've only done it once, and the engine seized. Maybe it was coincidence. But my n=1. What is yours?
Are you asking how many engines I've seized? The answer to that would be none.
No, how many times have you driven around for miles with the cap off.
Ah, I see. I've never done that. Nor is it on my to-do list.

Indeed, if you did that for long enough you could have lost enough oil to cause the engine to seize. It would be pretty hard not to notice some smoke or at least a strong odor from all the hot oil all over the engine compartment, and you'd have plenty of oil on the ground wherever you parked. And it would take quite a while to lose that much oil in that fashion. But is it possible? Well, sure, but you'd almost have to be wearing blinders and not have a sense of smell not to notice it. And any mechanic would instantly diagnose the problem once they opened the hood and saw the mess.
I didn't make it 15 miles before the engine started making a very abnormal sound.
Unfortunate. Was there lots of oil sprayed all around under the hood, and what did the mechanic say when you had the car towed to them?
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by White Coat Investor »

Teague wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:38 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:27 pm
Teague wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:57 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:55 pm
Teague wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:31 pm

Are you asking how many engines I've seized? The answer to that would be none.
No, how many times have you driven around for miles with the cap off.
Ah, I see. I've never done that. Nor is it on my to-do list.

Indeed, if you did that for long enough you could have lost enough oil to cause the engine to seize. It would be pretty hard not to notice some smoke or at least a strong odor from all the hot oil all over the engine compartment, and you'd have plenty of oil on the ground wherever you parked. And it would take quite a while to lose that much oil in that fashion. But is it possible? Well, sure, but you'd almost have to be wearing blinders and not have a sense of smell not to notice it. And any mechanic would instantly diagnose the problem once they opened the hood and saw the mess.
I didn't make it 15 miles before the engine started making a very abnormal sound.
Unfortunate. Was there lots of oil sprayed all around under the hood, and what did the mechanic say when you had the car towed to them?
1. Not that I recall. It's been a long time. It was probably a '90 Corolla in 2005 or so.
2." It's totaled. We'll give you $300 for it."
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by CoastalWinds »

Extra virgin olive oil.
smitcat
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Re: Best Oil?

Post by smitcat »

quantAndHold wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:21 am The Sprinter, being a Mercedes diesel, requires something really specific. There’s only one manufacturer, although it’s rebranded a couple of times. So I use that.

The other cars are 15 year old Japanese beaters. I take them to a local mechanic I trust and whatever she puts in is what I use. Pretty sure that using whatever she uses isn’t the thing that will lead to the cars’ eventual demise.
"The Sprinter, being a Mercedes diesel, requires something really specific."
A 5W 30 diesel approved oil from any major manufacturer.
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