Early retirement - Long term "successes"

[michaeljc70]

Maybe someone has said this already, but I don't think 20-30 years ago there was almost anyone retiring in their 20s or 30s. If they did they probably had rich parents or started an incredible business at an early age they sold. That is a much more recent phenomenon (and still a very small percentage of people).

[OAG]

Retired 38 years 8 months of age
Current Age 79 years 3 Months
Raised 4 kids
Have 9 Grand Children and 3 Great Grand Children
One spouse for 49 years
Now Widower
Key to success: Luck (No not lotteries, etc.,)

[moneywise3]

It is easier to have rich parents and was retired at birth.

[averagedude]

I will be interested in hearing from someone who is 60 years old now, but retired in their 30's and has never received any earned income or inheritances. I wonder how long I will have to wait.

Well I have a friend who has been running a money losing company for about 20 years now and is about 55. Does that count as not having earned income? Granted having about 75+million dollars from an IPO gives you a lot of flexibility in pursuing your hobbies.

As the retirement police, this doesn't count because he is attempting to earn an income. I really am not being a cynic, I'm interested in hearing from people who retired in their 30's and have done nothing to earn income since. I know that they are out there, I just think they are few and far between. This is an example that starting a business ( or blog, podcast, or writing a book) can be a quick way to FI, but I chose the slow and hard route of working for the man, saving a rather large percentage of what I earned, and investing the difference in broad based stock index funds. This system works, but I do know I would had been better off to take the risk of starting a business like this guy did. I guess when you have average or below intelligence and communication skills, mixed with the fear of taking large risks, it can be tough to succeed in starting your own business or to find riches quickly. I do know that the slow and steady route that I described earlier, can create wealth for anybody with sound mind and body, who happens to live in this great country.

[vrex]

Since some people are interested in this, let clarify a little bit. I have not read much of page one but I think I get the drift.
I came from a large family. My Dad was a factory worker. Mom stayed home to care for the kids. I did not really think about it then, but I now realize we were poor or lower middle class as people liked to say. She is frugal like me. I worked part time in high school. I did not go to college. I started with AT&T at the age of 18. Still married to my original wife. I have one child. My wife stayed home to care for child and run the household. She worked harder than I did. I was eligible for a pension after 30 years on the job. $1323/month not adjusted for inflation. It seemed more then than now of course. The company wanted to downsize so my incentive was 2 years pay (about $100k) and healthcare paid for the family and I until I was 65 years old which turned out to be mostly paid for. Close enough. I know this is a sticking point for many families now days. Pension, 2 years pay, healthcare paid for, dental insurance such as it was, small life insurance policy decreases in benefit every year. All these were union benefits. Our first line supervisors, one level above us, we’re not treated nearly as well at work or in retirement. No union for them. I began saving for my son’s college education when when he was about 6. When he went to college, I told him what was left in the fund after he graduated, he could have. He worked part time through college paying what he could. He got what was left in his college fund to start life with. It was a tidy sum for a kid just out of college. He took my advice and invested it in a Roth IRA (Target Date 2040) which he adds to every year. So here we are. House is paid off. Everything is rolled into Roth except a healthy amount of cash. Delaying my SS until 70. Overall 55/45 equity/fixed. I too have been lucky. Best to all.

[jabberwockOG]

The notion of retirement is an anachronistic obsolete term at this point. It also has a lot of cultural "baggage" associated - which varies depending on your age group. Most boomers learned what it means to retire by watching their parents and grandparents go into retirement. For most folks in those days retirement was a goal or a reward that happened after you worked some mandatory amount of years for a company. Many times there was a union involved. For many folks working 40 years at Company X was concluded with a nice party, an engraved gold watch, lifelong affordable healthcare and a reasonable pension. Then it was out to pasture. While they had basic financial security, many found that they missed being needed/busy/productive/in the action/etc., and often found themselves bored and lonely.

These days times have changed. Unions, pensions, lifelong healthcare, etc. are pretty much things of the past. What does it mean to retire at 30, 40, 50, 60?

I became FI at apprx age 58 - quit working for a living at age 60.

These days I spend maybe 1 hour a day keeping track of my investments. I have spent the last few years being productive in different ways, playing a lot, and staying busy doing exactly what I want to do most every day.

I don;t work for a living but am I retired? I don't think so.

[White Coat Investor]

Anybody out there retire in their 20s or 30s and stay retired through the decades that followed?

There is no shortage of millennial influencers out there promoting their early retirement journey to the masses. It's like they started a new career out of blogging about retiring. Does that count as retiring? I'm 34 so I'm the target audience for that genre.

I'm not looking for advice on how to do it. I'm curious if there is someone who saved a modest amount and then spent the next 30 years living off 4% (or similar) of their savings. Shouldn't they be the ones cashing all the 'how to retire early' checks?

A basic comparison would be someone in their 30s in 1985 retiring with $500,000. What have you been up to? Let me know, maybe we can start a blog together and I'll retire early.

The issue is that very few people who "retire" at 30 something are really done working for non-financial reasons. And some of that work is likely paid.

But to be fair, the ones you know about are the ones talking about it because they like blogging or podcasting or whatever. There's no incentive for someone else to answer your question.

[EddyB]

Also, I exclude it because the vast majority of ordinary people would take a dim view of someone who is able to work, or worse, has even accumulated significant resources, but then games the system to look 'poor' and get on various social services meant to help the people who have no options.

What do you think about ACA subsidy? What do you think about people early retiring and having 100K spendable money but paying zero federal income taxes? Are they gaming the system? Should ACA subsidy take in to account your retirement balance before coming with the subsidy amount? Why do you think ACA subsidy is very much different than welfare?

Were you talking about them or the "other welfare" people?

Almost as bad as when people who don’t need social security collect that payment.

[Plano]

Almost as bad as when people who don’t need social security collect that payment.

I think SSR is fine to collect when you reach retirement age, whether you need it or not, because it’s meant for seniors and you’d be a senior then. It’s designed that way.

But “free healthcare!” is intended for the poor, disabled, and elderly — not younger, able-bodied, fat FIRE folks. That one bothers me. It’s not as bad as getting food stamps or free school lunches, but it’s somewhere in that zone.

[flaccidsteele]

Don’t hate the player, hate the game

Advocate for means testing if it really bothers you

Also, I exclude it because the vast majority of ordinary people would take a dim view of someone who is able to work, or worse, has even accumulated significant resources, but then games the system to look 'poor' and get on various social services meant to help the people who have no options.

What do you think about ACA subsidy? What do you think about people early retiring and having 100K spendable money but paying zero federal income taxes? Are they gaming the system? Should ACA subsidy take in to account your retirement balance before coming with the subsidy amount? Why do you think ACA subsidy is very much different than welfare?

Were you talking about them or the "other welfare" people?

Almost as bad as when people who don’t need social security collect that payment.

Almost as bad as when people who don’t need social security collect that payment.

I think SSR is fine to collect when you reach retirement age, whether you need it or not, because it’s meant for seniors and you’d be a senior then. It’s designed that way.

But “free healthcare!” is intended for the poor, disabled, and elderly — not younger, able-bodied, fat FIRE folks. That one bothers me. It’s not as bad as getting food stamps or free school lunches, but it’s somewhere in that zone.

[flaccidsteele]

OP, If you haven't already, check out GoCurryCracker with Jeremy and Winnie. Sounds like something you are looking for. Good Luck.

Disclosure: I have No affiliation with the site. However, I have "talked" with Jeremy a few years back asking some of the same questions.

All this traveling and blogging and website management sounds exhausting to me. I’d rather be retired.

Perhaps some of the things you do would be exhausting to them where they would rather return to being a corporate slave

What do you think people do when they’re financially independent? Whatever they want

[azanon]

Anybody out there retire in their 20s or 30s and stay retired through the decades that followed?

There is no shortage of millennial influencers out there promoting their early retirement journey to the masses. It's like they started a new career out of blogging about retiring. Does that count as retiring? I'm 34 so I'm the target audience for that genre.

I'm not looking for advice on how to do it. I'm curious if there is someone who saved a modest amount and then spent the next 30 years living off 4% (or similar) of their savings. Shouldn't they be the ones cashing all the 'how to retire early' checks?

A basic comparison would be someone in their 30s in 1985 retiring with $500,000. What have you been up to? Let me know, maybe we can start a blog together and I'll retire early.

By-and-large, it generally doesn't happen. Now sure, you have a lot of "stay at home spouses" or financially independent people in that age range who become sole proprietors because they get fulfillment from their work (e.g. for example, MMM), but 20-30 somethings that just outright stop making earned income (aka not retired) for the rest of their natural life, also with no life partner that's also not working, is actually pretty rare.

I'm old enough to remember that when you wanted to impress someone, you could point out that you were financially independent at a young age. It actually still is impressive, if you ask me. But it was probably the bloggers who discovered that isn't enough to generate revenue for their blog. To get those national interviews, you needed to throw out the word retired too, even if truth be told, you probably work harder than most of the people reading or watching the interview.

[azanon]

I will be interested in hearing from someone who is 60 years old now, but retired in their 30's and has never received any earned income or inheritances. I wonder how long I will have to wait.

Well I have a friend who has been running a money losing company for about 20 years now and is about 55. Does that count as not having earned income? Granted having about 75+million dollars from an IPO gives you a lot of flexibility in pursuing your hobbies.

As the retirement police, this doesn't count because he is attempting to earn an income. I really am not being a cynic, I'm interested in hearing from people who retired in their 30's and have done nothing to earn income since. I know that they are out there, I just think they are few and far between. This is an example that starting a business ( or blog, podcast, or writing a book) can be a quick way to FI, but I chose the slow and hard route of working for the man, saving a rather large percentage of what I earned, and investing the difference in broad based stock index funds. This system works, but I do know I would had been better off to take the risk of starting a business like this guy did. I guess when you have average or below intelligence and communication skills, mixed with the fear of taking large risks, it can be tough to succeed in starting your own business or to find riches quickly. I do know that the slow and steady route that I described earlier, can create wealth for anybody with sound mind and body, who happens to live in this great country.

We're on the same page. And btw, I'm a member too. I think the term ((internet) retirement police) was originally intended to be derogatory, but when I did a little digging and found out that it merely identified one as being able to distinguish between financial independence and retirement, then I didn't fight the label anymore.

[smitcat]

Also, I exclude it because the vast majority of ordinary people would take a dim view of someone who is able to work, or worse, has even accumulated significant resources, but then games the system to look 'poor' and get on various social services meant to help the people who have no options.

What do you think about ACA subsidy? What do you think about people early retiring and having 100K spendable money but paying zero federal income taxes? Are they gaming the system? Should ACA subsidy take in to account your retirement balance before coming with the subsidy amount? Why do you think ACA subsidy is very much different than welfare?

Were you talking about them or the "other welfare" people?

Almost as bad as when people who don’t need social security collect that payment.

"Almost as bad as when people who don’t need social security collect that payment."
You pay into SS and then you get the same funds back at a later date.

[smitcat]

I will be interested in hearing from someone who is 60 years old now, but retired in their 30's and has never received any earned income or inheritances. I wonder how long I will have to wait.

Well I have a friend who has been running a money losing company for about 20 years now and is about 55. Does that count as not having earned income? Granted having about 75+million dollars from an IPO gives you a lot of flexibility in pursuing your hobbies.

As the retirement police, this doesn't count because he is attempting to earn an income. I really am not being a cynic, I'm interested in hearing from people who retired in their 30's and have done nothing to earn income since. I know that they are out there, I just think they are few and far between. This is an example that starting a business ( or blog, podcast, or writing a book) can be a quick way to FI, but I chose the slow and hard route of working for the man, saving a rather large percentage of what I earned, and investing the difference in broad based stock index funds. This system works, but I do know I would had been better off to take the risk of starting a business like this guy did. I guess when you have average or below intelligence and communication skills, mixed with the fear of taking large risks, it can be tough to succeed in starting your own business or to find riches quickly. I do know that the slow and steady route that I described earlier, can create wealth for anybody with sound mind and body, who happens to live in this great country.

We're on the same page. And btw, I'm a member too. I think the term ((internet) retirement police) was originally intended to be derogatory, but when I did a little digging and found out that it merely identified one as being able to distinguish between financial independence and retirement, then I didn't fight the label anymore.

All kidding aside...
I had mentioned the RP because it would have come up as a confusion later on anyway.
In some posts here you can be labeled 'working' when you are part time or even very part time.
And on other posts here you can be labeled 'retired' with the same part time or even very part time description.
Best to get it out in the open early what everyone considers 'retired' so the discussion can take place on a similar description.

[Luke Duke]

I have to start with my wife. She retired in her 20's and never again earned a nickel for anything she's done. She tells me that I have to work, because retirement would not be good for me, but she doesn't seem to be bothered much by it. We are very different. I have 100,000 things that I want to do. She does the same thing every day and I have observed a lot of other retirees have that routine to somehow use up the day.

Translation: I don't want you to retire, be around the house all day and mess up the routine that I've established.

[Dottie57]

Just take the word "Retire" out of the equation and the retirement police will go away.

"Funployment" is a good one.

If you want to still use the word "retire", say Retire from Mandatory work.

Great ideas.

A lot RE folks who do so early in life have some kind of employment: blog, part time, re-career. I say good luck. FYI, I enjoyed my work until the environment changed. I miss the work not the pressure.

[BanquetBeer]

"Almost as bad as when people who don’t need social security collect that payment."
You pay into SS and then you get the same funds back at a later date.

How many years does someone have to pay into the marketplace tax until they are entitled for benefit? Or are you not entitled unless you pay that NIIT for x years?

If ACA subsidies were intended for the poor (net worth) they would have means testing like many other gov programs.

[michaeljc70]

"Almost as bad as when people who don’t need social security collect that payment."
You pay into SS and then you get the same funds back at a later date.

If ACA subsidies were intended for the poor (net worth) they would have means testing like many other gov programs.

They also wouldn't be giving families making $95,000 a year subsidies.

[chipperd]

Also, I exclude it because the vast majority of ordinary people would take a dim view of someone who is able to work, or worse, has even accumulated significant resources, but then games the system to look 'poor' and get on various social services meant to help the people who have no options.

What do you think about ACA subsidy? What do you think about people early retiring and having 100K spendable money but paying zero federal income taxes? Are they gaming the system? Should ACA subsidy take in to account your retirement balance before coming with the subsidy amount? Why do you think ACA subsidy is very much different than welfare?

Were you talking about them or the "other welfare" people?

Almost as bad as when people who don’t need social security collect that payment.

"Almost as bad as when people who don’t need social security collect that payment."
You pay into SS and then you get the same funds back at a later date.

Yes, same formula as most of those on welfare who used to work, are out of work and then return to the workforce. They contribute to the safety net in the form of taxes (income, sales, property...), use the safety net when needed, then return to being contributors to that safety net.

[chipperd]

Don’t hate the player, hate the game

Advocate for means testing if it really bothers you

Also, I exclude it because the vast majority of ordinary people would take a dim view of someone who is able to work, or worse, has even accumulated significant resources, but then games the system to look 'poor' and get on various social services meant to help the people who have no options.

What do you think about ACA subsidy? What do you think about people early retiring and having 100K spendable money but paying zero federal income taxes? Are they gaming the system? Should ACA subsidy take in to account your retirement balance before coming with the subsidy amount? Why do you think ACA subsidy is very much different than welfare?

Were you talking about them or the "other welfare" people?

Almost as bad as when people who don’t need social security collect that payment.

Almost as bad as when people who don’t need social security collect that payment.

I think SSR is fine to collect when you reach retirement age, whether you need it or not, because it’s meant for seniors and you’d be a senior then. It’s designed that way.

But “free healthcare!” is intended for the poor, disabled, and elderly — not younger, able-bodied, fat FIRE folks. That one bothers me. It’s not as bad as getting food stamps or free school lunches, but it’s somewhere in that zone.

"Don’t hate the player, hate the game". +1

[randomguy]

Just logged back in and missed the fun my question caused. Wow, that ridiculously went off the rails really quickly.

1) "family with children" vs DINKs -- If someone's super-duper FIRE scheme is only working well because they had no kids, then their experience is of limited relevance to the general case, which is... people tend to reproduce. Similar to schemes that begin "First, make a ton of money in your mid 20s..."

2) "welfare" -- Again, an exclusion in terms of FIRE, which presumably means you have figured out a way to *pay your own way*. Otherwise we would say people stuck in the multi-generational lifelong welfare trap are FIRE'ing, which pretty much makes a mockery of the whole concept. Also, I exclude it because the vast majority of ordinary people would take a dim view of someone who is able to work, or worse, has even accumulated significant resources, but then games the system to look 'poor' and get on various social services meant to help the people who have no options.

3) "long term successes" == "acheivement?" I interpreted "success" here as "made it work" and not a gold star. Sheesh.

If you insist on reading more into either of those, be my guest.

1) Yes. But at some point you have to decide the constraints. What if I have kids but I have to live in Costa Rica for the next 20 years when they grow up? What about if I have to live in lowest COL in the US? To some extent all retirement planning is about income planning. If kids costs you say 20k/year, you need to come up with that extra 400k or so.

2) Well some of the fire people brag about putting their kids on medicaid:) As far as gaming the system, where is the line? If getting a 8k ACA credit is welfare, is getting a 4k child tax credit also welfare? What about avoiding 4k in income taxes because your health care expenses is done pretax? What about SS and medicare? After all I have paid NIIT for years now which was supposed to fund the ACA. Same thing right? It is all welfare to some extent but some of it we are ok with. Of course nobody who has been retired for 30 years used ACA for most of it:)

3) People will make anything work. I might want to retire on 100k/year. But if I only get 50k/year, I will still make it work. Success is more on the order of it enabling you to live the life you want but I think you will find that most people will justify their choices no matter how they turn out.

I think you will find most of the early retirees are "abnormal" in someway. If you are normal you don't end up in the place where you can retire at 40. You need some combo of large income, low spending or outside support (i.e. spend 20 years in the military and getting a pension+health care) to make it work.

I am still too young to have many friends who have been retired 30 years. I do know a ton of people who make a ton of money in their 20s/30s from IPO and buyouts. I can't think of a single one that stayed retired. A couple are doing hobbyist type business (Coffee shops and a B&B) but the rest pretty much all came back to work after taking 2 or 3 years off. Some of that might be that 10 million just isn't enough to make ends meet but a lot of it is because they missed the excitement of building things. I think the subset of people who are driven enough to build careers that make them enough money to retiree at say 35 and who then want to walk away is pretty low.

[azanon]

I will be interested in hearing from someone who is 60 years old now, but retired in their 30's and has never received any earned income or inheritances. I wonder how long I will have to wait.

Well I have a friend who has been running a money losing company for about 20 years now and is about 55. Does that count as not having earned income? Granted having about 75+million dollars from an IPO gives you a lot of flexibility in pursuing your hobbies.

As the retirement police, this doesn't count because he is attempting to earn an income. I really am not being a cynic, I'm interested in hearing from people who retired in their 30's and have done nothing to earn income since. I know that they are out there, I just think they are few and far between. This is an example that starting a business ( or blog, podcast, or writing a book) can be a quick way to FI, but I chose the slow and hard route of working for the man, saving a rather large percentage of what I earned, and investing the difference in broad based stock index funds. This system works, but I do know I would had been better off to take the risk of starting a business like this guy did. I guess when you have average or below intelligence and communication skills, mixed with the fear of taking large risks, it can be tough to succeed in starting your own business or to find riches quickly. I do know that the slow and steady route that I described earlier, can create wealth for anybody with sound mind and body, who happens to live in this great country.

We're on the same page. And btw, I'm a member too. I think the term ((internet) retirement police) was originally intended to be derogatory, but when I did a little digging and found out that it merely identified one as being able to distinguish between financial independence and retirement, then I didn't fight the label anymore.

All kidding aside...
I had mentioned the RP because it would have come up as a confusion later on anyway.
In some posts here you can be labeled 'working' when you are part time or even very part time.
And on other posts here you can be labeled 'retired' with the same part time or even very part time description.
Best to get it out in the open early what everyone considers 'retired' so the discussion can take place on a similar description.

I wasn't kidding though when I said I didn't mind the label, and it doesn't look like averagedude minds it either.

Best I can tell, at least one critical thing that caused it to be a bigger deal is when "financial independence" was no longer good enough for most people to feel very proud about having accomplished something great, especially if done at an early age. Now, (I would say unfortunately), there's a fairly sizable group of financially independent people that will get defensive if they can't also say they're retired too, no matter how much earned income they have. Now sure, I get that defensiveness in the case of bloggers who's business model depends on being able to use that label, but I don't get so much for someone who isn't gaining financially from being able to say they're retired too, even if they're still making earned income.

[flaccidsteele]

I am still too young to have many friends who have been retired 30 years. I do know a ton of people who make a ton of money in their 20s/30s from IPO and buyouts. I can't think of a single one that stayed retired. A couple are doing hobbyist type business (Coffee shops and a B&B) but the rest pretty much all came back to work after taking 2 or 3 years off. Some of that might be that 10 million just isn't enough to make ends meet but a lot of it is because they missed the excitement of building things. I think the subset of people who are driven enough to build careers that make them enough money to retiree at say 35 and who then want to walk away is pretty low.

+10

There are 2 challenges:

1. Financial. To be able to pay for stuff

2. Emotional. To be enlightened enough to break the multi-decade indoctrination of society to “do something”

[lostdog]

Don’t hate the player, hate the game

Advocate for means testing if it really bothers you

Also, I exclude it because the vast majority of ordinary people would take a dim view of someone who is able to work, or worse, has even accumulated significant resources, but then games the system to look 'poor' and get on various social services meant to help the people who have no options.

What do you think about ACA subsidy? What do you think about people early retiring and having 100K spendable money but paying zero federal income taxes? Are they gaming the system? Should ACA subsidy take in to account your retirement balance before coming with the subsidy amount? Why do you think ACA subsidy is very much different than welfare?

Were you talking about them or the "other welfare" people?

Almost as bad as when people who don’t need social security collect that payment.

Almost as bad as when people who don’t need social security collect that payment.

I think SSR is fine to collect when you reach retirement age, whether you need it or not, because it’s meant for seniors and you’d be a senior then. It’s designed that way.

But “free healthcare!” is intended for the poor, disabled, and elderly — not younger, able-bodied, fat FIRE folks. That one bothers me. It’s not as bad as getting food stamps or free school lunches, but it’s somewhere in that zone.

Isn’t it interesting that people just apply their own spin to the purpose, and even make up claims about the source of funds, to distinguish their own (moral, righteous) entitlements from the ones the lazy thieves get?

So if I semi-retired in my early 40's and worked very hard to build a nice nest egg and did Roth conversions to qualify for ACA subsidies, that would bother you?

[Flyer24]

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