Early retirement - Long term "successes"

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chrismj
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Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by chrismj »

Anybody out there retire in their 20s or 30s and stay retired through the decades that followed?

There is no shortage of millennial influencers out there promoting their early retirement journey to the masses. It's like they started a new career out of blogging about retiring. Does that count as retiring? I'm 34 so I'm the target audience for that genre.

I'm not looking for advice on how to do it. I'm curious if there is someone who saved a modest amount and then spent the next 30 years living off 4% (or similar) of their savings. Shouldn't they be the ones cashing all the 'how to retire early' checks?

A basic comparison would be someone in their 30s in 1985 retiring with $500,000. What have you been up to? Let me know, maybe we can start a blog together and I'll retire early.
Unladen_Swallow
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by Unladen_Swallow »

You said "decades that followed" , so are you seeking out someone that has been retired 30 yrs or more (I see you did)? And also retired in their 20s or 30s?

I will bet there is no one here that meets both criteria. I am eager to hear otherwise.


I am sure there are people that retired in their 30s. I can see someone working at a high paying job for 15 yrs and calling it quits. That is easily possible. Modest living, healthy, perhaps single (or even with a partner that adds to the nest egg). I can see them living very easily, and living well.

Does one retire in their 20s? Is this a meaningful evaluation? There are people who never hold down a proper job all their lives. Would they count as being retired since their 20s? Early inheritance? Maybe live with family. Help around the house. Then inherit later in life. I know more than one person like this.
Last edited by Unladen_Swallow on Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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smitcat
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by smitcat »

chrismj wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:44 pm Anybody out there retire in their 20s or 30s and stay retired through the decades that followed?

There is no shortage of millennial influencers out there promoting their early retirement journey to the masses. It's like they started a new career out of blogging about retiring. Does that count as retiring? I'm 34 so I'm the target audience for that genre.

I'm not looking for advice on how to do it. I'm curious if there is someone who saved a modest amount and then spent the next 30 years living off 4% (or similar) of their savings. Shouldn't they be the ones cashing all the 'how to retire early' checks?

A basic comparison would be someone in their 30s in 1985 retiring with $500,000. What have you been up to? Let me know, maybe we can start a blog together and I'll retire early.
"Let me know, maybe we can start a blog together and I'll retire early."
Just so you know - if you start a blog and have income as a result the retirement Police will not allow you to be called 'retired'.
Longdog
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by Longdog »

smitcat wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:39 pm
chrismj wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:44 pm Anybody out there retire in their 20s or 30s and stay retired through the decades that followed?

There is no shortage of millennial influencers out there promoting their early retirement journey to the masses. It's like they started a new career out of blogging about retiring. Does that count as retiring? I'm 34 so I'm the target audience for that genre.

I'm not looking for advice on how to do it. I'm curious if there is someone who saved a modest amount and then spent the next 30 years living off 4% (or similar) of their savings. Shouldn't they be the ones cashing all the 'how to retire early' checks?

A basic comparison would be someone in their 30s in 1985 retiring with $500,000. What have you been up to? Let me know, maybe we can start a blog together and I'll retire early.
"Let me know, maybe we can start a blog together and I'll retire early."
Just so you know - if you start a blog and have income as a result the retirement Police will not allow you to be called 'retired'.
Where do I apply to be an officer in the Retirement Police Force? I have been raised to believe that retirement means “no earned income” so I think my background qualifies me. Is that a payed position? Would my enforcement weapon be a hard copy of IRS Publication 550 that I can force offenders to read? (Note: suspects are considered innocent until proven guilty.)
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by sailaway »

rj342 wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:42 pm
chrismj wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:44 pm Anybody out there retire in their 20s or 30s and stay retired through the decades that followed?

There is no shortage of millennial influencers out there promoting their early retirement journey to the masses. It's like they started a new career out of blogging about retiring. Does that count as retiring? I'm 34 so I'm the target audience for that genre.

I'm not looking for advice on how to do it. I'm curious if there is someone who saved a modest amount and then spent the next 30 years living off 4% (or similar) of their savings. Shouldn't they be the ones cashing all the 'how to retire early' checks?

A basic comparison would be someone in their 30s in 1985 retiring with $500,000. What have you been up to? Let me know, maybe we can start a blog together and I'll retire early.
Important qualifier -- And managed to do that while also having a family w/ kids, not DINKs. Oh, and no 'welfare' beyond some ACA subsidies.
You can't retire if you never raised a family?

This retirement thing is getting way too complicated. I have decided to just become a rich bum.

Actually, this is where I prefer the good old fashioned "person of means" or "independently wealthy."

OP, there are plenty of people who don't want to write books or blogs or vlogs and sell ad space with their name/brand on it. Some folks can achieve enough and not be looking to cash in on enough, just to lead their own best lives. They might even be interested in a different project, but not publishing on personal finance.
Last edited by sailaway on Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by smitcat »

Longdog wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:52 pm
smitcat wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:39 pm
chrismj wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:44 pm Anybody out there retire in their 20s or 30s and stay retired through the decades that followed?

There is no shortage of millennial influencers out there promoting their early retirement journey to the masses. It's like they started a new career out of blogging about retiring. Does that count as retiring? I'm 34 so I'm the target audience for that genre.

I'm not looking for advice on how to do it. I'm curious if there is someone who saved a modest amount and then spent the next 30 years living off 4% (or similar) of their savings. Shouldn't they be the ones cashing all the 'how to retire early' checks?

A basic comparison would be someone in their 30s in 1985 retiring with $500,000. What have you been up to? Let me know, maybe we can start a blog together and I'll retire early.
"Let me know, maybe we can start a blog together and I'll retire early."
Just so you know - if you start a blog and have income as a result the retirement Police will not allow you to be called 'retired'.
Where do I apply to be an officer in the Retirement Police Force? I have been raised to believe that retirement means “no earned income” so I think my background qualifies me. Is that a payed position? Would my enforcement weapon be a hard copy of IRS Publication 550 that I can force offenders to read? (Note: suspects are considered innocent until proven guilty.)
If you have a blog and that affords you any advertising income the RP will come for you. Similarly with any earned income at all.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by willthrill81 »

FWIW, Paula Pant is a blogger who knows hundreds of people in the FIRE community, including many who are not bloggers, podcasters, and the like. She says that she only knows one person who retired in his 30s and never earned any subsequent income. I believe that he is now a 'pro' backpacker.

Todd Tresidder retired in his 30s, and he said that after about a year on what he called the 'pro leisure circuit', he got bored with it and became a part-time entrepreneur.
Last edited by willthrill81 on Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by flyingaway »

It is easier to have rich parents and was retired at birth.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by averagedude »

I will be interested in hearing from someone who is 60 years old now, but retired in their 30's and has never received any earned income or inheritances. I wonder how long I will have to wait.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by abuss368 »

averagedude wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:45 pm I will be interested in hearing from someone who is 60 years old now, but retired in their 30's and has never received any earned income or inheritances. I wonder how long I will have to wait.
Well said.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by jj »

Google for Paul and Vicki Terhorst.

One article:

https://www.nextavenue.org/30-years-ago ... 35-update/

"30 Years Ago They Retired at 35: An Update
Globetrotter Paul Terhorst and his wife Vicki are loving their lives

Paul Terhorst, a frugal Peat Marwick accountant who retired at 35 in 1984 and wrote a book about it: Cashing In On the American Dream: How to Retire at 35. Last week, I caught up with Paul, now 65, to find out how the past 30 years have gone for him and his wife, Vicki (also 35 when she retired) — and to learn his plans for, what could be, another 30 years."

This couple has blogged and been interviewed over the years - have an interesting lifestyle, and when they did it in the '80s, quite unusual.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by randomguy »

averagedude wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:45 pm I will be interested in hearing from someone who is 60 years old now, but retired in their 30's and has never received any earned income or inheritances. I wonder how long I will have to wait.
Well I have a friend who has been running a money losing company for about 20 years now and is about 55. Does that count as not having earned income? Granted having about 75+million dollars from an IPO gives you a lot of flexibility in pursuing your hobbies.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by randomguy »

jj wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:17 pm Google for Paul and Vicki Terhorst.

One article:

https://www.nextavenue.org/30-years-ago ... 35-update/

"30 Years Ago They Retired at 35: An Update
Globetrotter Paul Terhorst and his wife Vicki are loving their lives

Paul Terhorst, a frugal Peat Marwick accountant who retired at 35 in 1984 and wrote a book about it: Cashing In On the American Dream: How to Retire at 35. Last week, I caught up with Paul, now 65, to find out how the past 30 years have gone for him and his wife, Vicki (also 35 when she retired) — and to learn his plans for, what could be, another 30 years."

This couple has blogged and been interviewed over the years - have an interesting lifestyle, and when they did it in the '80s, quite unusual.
The guy is making money from writing articles. So they aren't retired:) Do royalty checks from his book also disqualify him?:) It is amazing how similiar his journey was to the FIRE people. His basic plan was to save 500k and live off 50/day (3.7 SWR). So much for FIREing being a new idea like some people think:)
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by JoeRetire »

chrismj wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:44 pmIt's like they started a new career out of blogging about retiring. Does that count as retiring?
Yes! Most retired folks have careers.
I'm 34 so I'm the target audience for that genre.

I'm not looking for advice on how to do it. I'm curious if there is someone who saved a modest amount and then spent the next 30 years living off 4% (or similar) of their savings.
I don't know anyone living off of 4% of a modest amount for the rest of their lives.

I do know one person who "retired" in his 20s. He has lived (not at all modestly) on his dad's fortune and later his inheritance.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by visualguy »

JoeRetire wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:35 pm
chrismj wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:44 pmIt's like they started a new career out of blogging about retiring. Does that count as retiring?
Yes! Most retired folks have careers.
Cool - then I guess I'm already retired and didn't even know it! :wink: Actually, not really. If I'm engaged in a career, I don't consider it retired. If I switched careers, I don't consider it retired either; just retired from one career and working on another.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by GuyInFL »

Www.RetireEarlyHomepage.com

He retired at 38 and is in his 60s.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by Pierre Delecto »

I got sucked into the idea of FIRE some years back. It caused a lot of impatience, and frankly depression, on my part and was not at all healthy for me. I can get behind the FI part, but I’ve found the RE part to be not so healthy for me. I think people that are so focused on RE are mostly just in a job they don’t like. My goal is to find something I never want to retire from. My hope is that FI gives me the freedom to explore and take risks in that regard. As I’ve grown older, I’ve really come to appreciate the benefits of work. I’d love to do my current job for 15-20 hours per week in perpetuity — if that were an option.
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chrismj
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by chrismj »

jj wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:17 pm Google for Paul and Vicki Terhorst.

One article:

https://www.nextavenue.org/30-years-ago ... 35-update/

"30 Years Ago They Retired at 35: An Update
Globetrotter Paul Terhorst and his wife Vicki are loving their lives

Paul Terhorst, a frugal Peat Marwick accountant who retired at 35 in 1984 and wrote a book about it: Cashing In On the American Dream: How to Retire at 35. Last week, I caught up with Paul, now 65, to find out how the past 30 years have gone for him and his wife, Vicki (also 35 when she retired) — and to learn his plans for, what could be, another 30 years."

This couple has blogged and been interviewed over the years - have an interesting lifestyle, and when they did it in the '80s, quite unusual.
Very neat. I just want to here what people have done with their time and what their finances faced. Like their original plan of living off 8% interest from CD and savings rates didn’t pan out but they adjusted. And staying around $100/day for 30 years is walking the walk.

I’ll take only a few points away for writing his retirement book that early though. That’s kind of the idea I wanted to confront. Wouldn’t you rather read the book he could write now and not the one he wrote 35 years ago?

And I’m not saying your story is disqualified from being an early retiree if you have an income besides investments. If you saved and retired early to sell beer at baseball games I want to hear about it.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by willthrill81 »

randomguy wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:28 pm
jj wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:17 pm Google for Paul and Vicki Terhorst.

One article:

https://www.nextavenue.org/30-years-ago ... 35-update/

"30 Years Ago They Retired at 35: An Update
Globetrotter Paul Terhorst and his wife Vicki are loving their lives

Paul Terhorst, a frugal Peat Marwick accountant who retired at 35 in 1984 and wrote a book about it: Cashing In On the American Dream: How to Retire at 35. Last week, I caught up with Paul, now 65, to find out how the past 30 years have gone for him and his wife, Vicki (also 35 when she retired) — and to learn his plans for, what could be, another 30 years."

This couple has blogged and been interviewed over the years - have an interesting lifestyle, and when they did it in the '80s, quite unusual.
The guy is making money from writing articles. So they aren't retired:) Do royalty checks from his book also disqualify him?:) It is amazing how similiar his journey was to the FIRE people. His basic plan was to save 500k and live off 50/day (3.7 SWR). So much for FIREing being a new idea like some people think:)
I've heard that in the late 1800s, many young men in England were encouraged to basically FIRE in their 30s so that they could spend the rest of their time working for charities.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
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JoeRetire
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by JoeRetire »

visualguy wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:19 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:35 pm
chrismj wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:44 pmIt's like they started a new career out of blogging about retiring. Does that count as retiring?
Yes! Most retired folks have careers.
Cool - then I guess I'm already retired and didn't even know it! :wink: Actually, not really. If I'm engaged in a career, I don't consider it retired. If I switched careers, I don't consider it retired either; just retired from one career and working on another.
Do you write a blog about retiring, too?
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firebirdparts
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by firebirdparts »

If you're curious about the psychology aspect of it, I would say 60% of the population is not working. That's a guess. I have to start with my wife. She retired in her 20's and never again earned a nickel for anything she's done. She tells me that I have to work, because retirement would not be good for me, but she doesn't seem to be bothered much by it. We are very different. I have 100,000 things that I want to do. She does the same thing every day and I have observed a lot of other retirees have that routine to somehow use up the day.

Now, if you are wondering about the math, honestly, there are going to be plenty of people who could retire in their 30's based on math. Maybe they didn't actually do it, but plenty of people could have. On average, people are average, but a few people are way outside the average.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by B. Wellington »

sailaway wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:51 pm
rj342 wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:42 pm
chrismj wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:44 pm Anybody out there retire in their 20s or 30s and stay retired through the decades that followed?

There is no shortage of millennial influencers out there promoting their early retirement journey to the masses. It's like they started a new career out of blogging about retiring. Does that count as retiring? I'm 34 so I'm the target audience for that genre.

I'm not looking for advice on how to do it. I'm curious if there is someone who saved a modest amount and then spent the next 30 years living off 4% (or similar) of their savings. Shouldn't they be the ones cashing all the 'how to retire early' checks?

A basic comparison would be someone in their 30s in 1985 retiring with $500,000. What have you been up to? Let me know, maybe we can start a blog together and I'll retire early.
Important qualifier -- And managed to do that while also having a family w/ kids, not DINKs. Oh, and no 'welfare' beyond some ACA subsidies.
You can't retire if you never raised a family?

This retirement thing is getting way too complicated. I have decided to just become a rich bum.

Actually, this is where I prefer the good old fashioned "person of means" or "independently wealthy."

OP, there are plenty of people who don't want to write books or blogs or vlogs and sell ad space with their name/brand on it. Some folks can achieve enough and not be looking to cash in on enough, just to lead their own best lives. They might even be interested in a different project, but not publishing on personal finance.


This ^^^! When MMM (Mister Money Mustache), "Nords", and Jeremy (Go Curry Cracker) started blogging years ago it was exciting and a place to share ideas, saving and investing tips, lifestyle choices etc.

I, like many others who were part of the early days are becoming a bit tired of it. Seems the new path to "retirement" is blogging and/or selling ads and books. Nothing wrong with that. But how many writers actually make it to that level? I fear that many might be disappointed in the long run. :confused
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by Brianmcg321 »

B. Wellington wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:57 am
sailaway wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:51 pm
rj342 wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:42 pm
chrismj wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:44 pm Anybody out there retire in their 20s or 30s and stay retired through the decades that followed?

There is no shortage of millennial influencers out there promoting their early retirement journey to the masses. It's like they started a new career out of blogging about retiring. Does that count as retiring? I'm 34 so I'm the target audience for that genre.

I'm not looking for advice on how to do it. I'm curious if there is someone who saved a modest amount and then spent the next 30 years living off 4% (or similar) of their savings. Shouldn't they be the ones cashing all the 'how to retire early' checks?

A basic comparison would be someone in their 30s in 1985 retiring with $500,000. What have you been up to? Let me know, maybe we can start a blog together and I'll retire early.
Important qualifier -- And managed to do that while also having a family w/ kids, not DINKs. Oh, and no 'welfare' beyond some ACA subsidies.
You can't retire if you never raised a family?

This retirement thing is getting way too complicated. I have decided to just become a rich bum.

Actually, this is where I prefer the good old fashioned "person of means" or "independently wealthy."

OP, there are plenty of people who don't want to write books or blogs or vlogs and sell ad space with their name/brand on it. Some folks can achieve enough and not be looking to cash in on enough, just to lead their own best lives. They might even be interested in a different project, but not publishing on personal finance.


This ^^^! When MMM (Mister Money Mustache), "Nords", and Jeremy (Go Curry Cracker) started blogging years ago it was exciting and a place to share ideas, saving and investing tips, lifestyle choices etc.

I, like many others who were part of the early days are becoming a bit tired of it. Seems the new path to "retirement" is blogging and/or selling ads and books. Nothing wrong with that. But how many writers actually make it to that level? I fear that many might be disappointed in the long run. :confused

I came across all of those blogs just recently, and it's interesting going through the years of posts on those forums. You can sense the excitement of it.

The interesting part was how this clique of FIRE bloggers started interviewing each other for podcasts and blogs. It's like everyone patting each other on their backs, like a Hollywood awards show. They are following the same patterns as all the minimalist bloggers, and intertwine with them as well.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by flaccidsteele »

“Retirement police” is just another term for envy 😂
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by smitcat »

flaccidsteele wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:34 am “Retirement police” is just another term for envy 😂
Maybe - but we saw this same pattern in the good old 'flower power' days when folks decided they could save a little and FIRE early.
This is not a new thing it's just that with the internet many of these ideas and behaviors can be shared much more easily.
FWIW - a vast majority of the 'hippies' ended up in some form of corporate America within a short period of time...
Back testing maybe?
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by willthrill81 »

flaccidsteele wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:34 am “Retirement police” is just another term for envy 😂
I suspect that you're mostly correct.

Personally, I am far more concerned with financial independence than early retirement. If I have the former, then I have the choice as to whether I want to do the latter.

Fritz of The Retirement Manifesto says that the 'RE' or FIRE should be renamed 'recreational employment'.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by visualguy »

JoeRetire wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:20 am
visualguy wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:19 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:35 pm
chrismj wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:44 pmIt's like they started a new career out of blogging about retiring. Does that count as retiring?
Yes! Most retired folks have careers.
Cool - then I guess I'm already retired and didn't even know it! :wink: Actually, not really. If I'm engaged in a career, I don't consider it retired. If I switched careers, I don't consider it retired either; just retired from one career and working on another.
Do you write a blog about retiring, too?
Not blogging, but I changed careers 3 years ago, so I guess I've been retired for 3 years without knowing it! :happy
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by scrabbler1 »

BanquetBeer wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:43 am
scrabbler1 wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:10 am
BanquetBeer wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:58 am
scrabbler1 wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:46 am Why should that be a qualifier? I retired 11 years ago at age 45 (not in my 20s or 30s) and am single and childfree. Why do my life choices somehow lessen my achievement?
Interesting choice of words because it isn’t hard to make the argument that saving enough money for 1 person is a ‘lesser achievement’ than saving enough money for 3-5 people over the same timeframe?

I think the question was not about if childless people made the right choice, it was about getting the additional resources required for a family.
What about other people who make different life choices which involve spending more money, such as living in HCOL areas? Should an early retiree who has kids but who lives in a LCOL area be more (or less worthy) than a CF person who lives in a HCOL area?

Someone who is in his 20s or 30s and can retire is already an achievement. Saying, "Oh, S/he had no kids, so it somehow doesn't 'count' as much" I find very insulting.
It is your choice to be insulted, I didn’t read the comment with that as his intent.

I don’t get the HCOL to LCOL comparison as people have/don’t have kids in both places. Having kids in either situation is more expensive then not having kids.

I got the idea that the poster accurately felt it is harder to get more money (aka have kids) for any situation (COL, lifestyle, etc). The only people talking about it being an ‘achievement’ or ‘not counting as much’ were the ones getting upset about it.
It (I.e. FIRE being an achievement) was implied by rj342 because it (the qualifier) was in reply to the OP who titled this thread, "Long term successes".

And about the HCOL versus LCOL, what if rj342 had written, "And managed to do that while also living in a HCOL, not a LCOL." That would be insulting to anyone who FIREd while living in a LCOL.

Just leave out the qualifier, that's all I ask.
victw
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by victw »

randomguy wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:28 pm His basic plan was to save 500k and live off 50/day (3.7 SWR). So much for FIREing being a new idea like some people think:)
I did some rudimentary math on this one. Using 1984 as a start - inflation adjusting - the same $50 a day today would be $ 125. Rounding up it would take $ 1.3 million to cover that at 3.7 SWR.

I wonder how many people (couples) feel like they could live on $ 125 day? And how quickly could people accumulate 1.3 million.

I like the Terhorst writings. But as far as I can tell they have spent a lot of time in less expensive areas. Like many nomadic FIREs. I would not want my travel to be limited in FIRE.


Sorry I am confusing them with Bill and Akaisha Kaderli. They started at age 38. And yep they have some income.
https://retireearlylifestyle.com/blog/about/

Vic
B. Wellington
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by B. Wellington »

willthrill81 wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:11 am
flaccidsteele wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:34 am “Retirement police” is just another term for envy 😂
I suspect that you're mostly correct.

Personally, I am far more concerned with financial independence than early retirement. If I have the former, then I have the choice as to whether I want to do the latter.

Fritz of The Retirement Manifesto says that the 'RE' or FIRE should be renamed 'recreational employment'.
Will, heard the term "re-careering" recently on a blog. Sounded a bit odd to me but o.k. I too wish the RE would fade a way to some degree. And yes, those who focus on Financial Independence the (FI) more have the option to do whatever they wish... and probably much sooner. :beer
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chrismj
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by chrismj »

I see there are some side conversations taking place about qualifiers for what a legitimate retirement is. I’m open to a broad interpretation of retirement so maybe I should have used “financially independent” mixed with some sort of career exit.

On a narrower view, I posed the example of someone in their 30s retiring in 1985 with $500,000. A couple of replies had an example, and they have early retirement brands of sorts (website, blog). I thought maybe there would be a boglehead on the forum who had some unshared experience.

The real point I was trying to make that maybe was lost in my original post is that I would rather hear about “early retirement” from an experienced retiree and not someone who is one year into their journey. My millennial peers are offering me a lifestyle brand, when I’d rather hear about the ups and downs and changed plans from someone who lived it.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by lostdog »

Just take the word "Retire" out of the equation and the retirement police will go away.

"Funployment" is a good one.

If you want to still use the word "retire", say Retire from Mandatory work.
Last edited by lostdog on Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by B. Wellington »

chrismj wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:33 pm I see there are some side conversations taking place about qualifiers for what a legitimate retirement is. I’m open to a broad interpretation of retirement so maybe I should have used “financially independent” mixed with some sort of career exit.

On a narrower view, I posed the example of someone in their 30s retiring in 1985 with $500,000. A couple of replies had an example, and they have early retirement brands of sorts (website, blog). I thought maybe there would be a boglehead on the forum who had some unshared experience.

The real point I was trying to make that maybe was lost in my original post is that I would rather hear about “early retirement” from an experienced retiree and not someone who is one year into their journey. My millennial peers are offering me a lifestyle brand, when I’d rather hear about the ups and downs and changed plans from someone who lived it.
OP, If you haven't already, check out GoCurryCracker with Jeremy and Winnie. Sounds like something you are looking for. Good Luck. :sharebeer

Disclosure: I have No affiliation with the site. However, I have "talked" with Jeremy a few years back asking some of the same questions.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by randomguy »

victw wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:55 am
randomguy wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:28 pm His basic plan was to save 500k and live off 50/day (3.7 SWR). So much for FIREing being a new idea like some people think:)
I did some rudimentary math on this one. Using 1984 as a start - inflation adjusting - the same $50 a day today would be $ 125. Rounding up it would take $ 1.3 million to cover that at 3.7 SWR.

I wonder how many people (couples) feel like they could live on $ 125 day? And how quickly could people accumulate 1.3 million.

I like the Terhorst writings. But as far as I can tell they have spent a lot of time in less expensive areas. Like many nomadic FIREs. I would not want my travel to be limited in FIRE.


Sorry I am confusing them with Bill and Akaisha Kaderli. They started at age 38. And yep they have some income.
https://retireearlylifestyle.com/blog/about/

Vic
125*365= 45k/year. That isn't exactly slumming it. It is pretty much the average middle class american lifestyle. And yes lack of money limits your choices in life. You can choose to live a 300k/year life style (that guy in SF who thinks that is what you need to be middle class) or a 20k lifestyle or anything in between. The part that is tough about this is that the people who accumulate the 1.3 million by 35 aren't working those 60k/year jobs. They are having 200k+/year of family income. It is tough to choose to live that far below your peers and just walk away. Personally I would have worked til 40, and lived the 90k/year lifestyle for the rest of my life but that is a personal choice. That is just around the level where I can buy everything I want.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by JoeRetire »

visualguy wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:25 am
JoeRetire wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:20 am
visualguy wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:19 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:35 pm
chrismj wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:44 pmIt's like they started a new career out of blogging about retiring. Does that count as retiring?
Yes! Most retired folks have careers.
Cool - then I guess I'm already retired and didn't even know it! :wink: Actually, not really. If I'm engaged in a career, I don't consider it retired. If I switched careers, I don't consider it retired either; just retired from one career and working on another.
Do you write a blog about retiring, too?
Not blogging, but I changed careers 3 years ago, so I guess I've been retired for 3 years without knowing it! :happy
(shrug) Could be. There are some confusing definitions regarding "FIRE" out there.
It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | And I feel fine.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by rj342 »

Just logged back in and missed the fun my question caused. Wow, that ridiculously went off the rails really quickly.

1) "family with children" vs DINKs -- If someone's super-duper FIRE scheme is only working well because they had no kids, then their experience is of limited relevance to the general case, which is... people tend to reproduce. Similar to schemes that begin "First, make a ton of money in your mid 20s..."

2) "welfare" -- Again, an exclusion in terms of FIRE, which presumably means you have figured out a way to *pay your own way*. Otherwise we would say people stuck in the multi-generational lifelong welfare trap are FIRE'ing, which pretty much makes a mockery of the whole concept. Also, I exclude it because the vast majority of ordinary people would take a dim view of someone who is able to work, or worse, has even accumulated significant resources, but then games the system to look 'poor' and get on various social services meant to help the people who have no options.

3) "long term successes" == "acheivement?" I interpreted "success" here as "made it work" and not a gold star. Sheesh.

If you insist on reading more into either of those, be my guest.
Last edited by rj342 on Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by rj342 »

scrabbler1 wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:46 am
rj342 wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:42 pm
chrismj wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:44 pm Anybody out there retire in their 20s or 30s and stay retired through the decades that followed?

There is no shortage of millennial influencers out there promoting their early retirement journey to the masses. It's like they started a new career out of blogging about retiring. Does that count as retiring? I'm 34 so I'm the target audience for that genre.

I'm not looking for advice on how to do it. I'm curious if there is someone who saved a modest amount and then spent the next 30 years living off 4% (or similar) of their savings. Shouldn't they be the ones cashing all the 'how to retire early' checks?

A basic comparison would be someone in their 30s in 1985 retiring with $500,000. What have you been up to? Let me know, maybe we can start a blog together and I'll retire early.
Important qualifier -- And managed to do that while also having a family w/ kids, not DINKs. Oh, and no 'welfare' beyond some ACA subsidies.
Why should that be a qualifier? I retired 11 years ago at age 45 (not in my 20s or 30s) and am single and childfree. Why do my life choices somehow lessen my achievement?
See my post just above.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by rj342 »

TBH that is a gray area.

I don't know where you're coming from with your implication of 'the other welfare people', when I am specifically talking about FIRE peopel who by definition are ahead of the pack in some way.

I suppose its arguably one thing if someone is cutting it close, trying to retire or semi-retire a few years before Medicare kicks in (and had been paying a lot of taxes in the decades prior), versus another, for that being someone's plan from their 30s or earlier.

OTOH I distinctly remember that being one of the selling points of ACA, giving people more options how to live their live's without healthcare hanging over their heads quite so badly.

Feels different than someone patting themselves for extreme FIRE while getting their kids on the school's free lunch and breakfast and a bunch of other services by manipulating their reported income. Not that I have ever noticed an extreme FIRE person say they've done that, but I do wonder sometimes.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by chrismj »

B. Wellington wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:02 pm
OP, If you haven't already, check out GoCurryCracker with Jeremy and Winnie. Sounds like something you are looking for. Good Luck. :sharebeer

Disclosure: I have No affiliation with the site. However, I have "talked" with Jeremy a few years back asking some of the same questions.
All this traveling and blogging and website management sounds exhausting to me. I’d rather be retired.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by SR II »

jj wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:17 pm Google for Paul and Vicki Terhorst.

One article:

https://www.nextavenue.org/30-years-ago ... 35-update/

"30 Years Ago They Retired at 35: An Update
Globetrotter Paul Terhorst and his wife Vicki are loving their lives

Paul Terhorst, a frugal Peat Marwick accountant who retired at 35 in 1984 and wrote a book about it: Cashing In On the American Dream: How to Retire at 35. Last week, I caught up with Paul, now 65, to find out how the past 30 years have gone for him and his wife, Vicki (also 35 when she retired) — and to learn his plans for, what could be, another 30 years."

This couple has blogged and been interviewed over the years - have an interesting lifestyle, and when they did it in the '80s, quite unusual.
Seriously, does anyone know where/how the Terhorsts are now? The above article was from 2014 and they seem to have stopped blogging. I can't find anything current on the internet.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by furikake »

SR II wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:05 pm
jj wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:17 pm Google for Paul and Vicki Terhorst.

One article:

https://www.nextavenue.org/30-years-ago ... 35-update/

"30 Years Ago They Retired at 35: An Update
Globetrotter Paul Terhorst and his wife Vicki are loving their lives

Paul Terhorst, a frugal Peat Marwick accountant who retired at 35 in 1984 and wrote a book about it: Cashing In On the American Dream: How to Retire at 35. Last week, I caught up with Paul, now 65, to find out how the past 30 years have gone for him and his wife, Vicki (also 35 when she retired) — and to learn his plans for, what could be, another 30 years."

This couple has blogged and been interviewed over the years - have an interesting lifestyle, and when they did it in the '80s, quite unusual.
Seriously, does anyone know where/how the Terhorsts are now? The above article was from 2014 and they seem to have stopped blogging. I can't find anything current on the internet.
I don't know where they are. I read the article, it says that Vicki goes out with friends. How do they make friends if they're moving from one place to another so frequently?! More like going out with strangers.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by sailaway »

chrismj wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:48 pm
B. Wellington wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:02 pm
OP, If you haven't already, check out GoCurryCracker with Jeremy and Winnie. Sounds like something you are looking for. Good Luck. :sharebeer

Disclosure: I have No affiliation with the site. However, I have "talked" with Jeremy a few years back asking some of the same questions.
All this traveling and blogging and website management sounds exhausting to me. I’d rather be retired.
I love the traveling, but we always forget to take pictures when we are doing the best stuff. My blog ends up with pictures and directions about which quadrant to focus on to see the dolphins swimming away after they played around our boat and we sat mesmerized. Plus, most of the people in the sailing world do vlogs; we both hate talking on camera!

And that doesn't even get started with SEO and paid endorsement links and blah blah blah. It is definitely work, and not something I want to be worrying about.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by willthrill81 »

furikake wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:17 pm
SR II wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:05 pm
jj wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:17 pm Google for Paul and Vicki Terhorst.

One article:

https://www.nextavenue.org/30-years-ago ... 35-update/

"30 Years Ago They Retired at 35: An Update
Globetrotter Paul Terhorst and his wife Vicki are loving their lives

Paul Terhorst, a frugal Peat Marwick accountant who retired at 35 in 1984 and wrote a book about it: Cashing In On the American Dream: How to Retire at 35. Last week, I caught up with Paul, now 65, to find out how the past 30 years have gone for him and his wife, Vicki (also 35 when she retired) — and to learn his plans for, what could be, another 30 years."

This couple has blogged and been interviewed over the years - have an interesting lifestyle, and when they did it in the '80s, quite unusual.
Seriously, does anyone know where/how the Terhorsts are now? The above article was from 2014 and they seem to have stopped blogging. I can't find anything current on the internet.
I don't know where they are. I read the article, it says that Vicki goes out with friends. How do they make friends if they're moving from one place to another so frequently?! More like going out with strangers.
You might be surprised. The snowbird and 'cheap RV living' communities are pretty tightly knit. Many of them travel to the similar places at similar times of the year, so meetups are common.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by Orbuculum Nongata »

chrismj wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:48 pm
B. Wellington wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:02 pm
OP, If you haven't already, check out GoCurryCracker with Jeremy and Winnie. Sounds like something you are looking for. Good Luck. :sharebeer

Disclosure: I have No affiliation with the site. However, I have "talked" with Jeremy a few years back asking some of the same questions.
All this traveling and blogging and website management sounds exhausting to me. I’d rather be retired.
That’s an enticing thought to have when you aren’t retired. But, the reality of retiring early is that it can be boring, unfulfilling and not at all challenging for people who have earned enough to retire early. After just three and a half years of retirement at an early age, I’m starting diving back in. I realize I am explicitly an example of what you weren’t looking for but my guess is that people like me who go back to some form of income are more the rule than the exception and a significant number don’t do it for financial reasons.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by mrspock »

willthrill81 wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:11 am
flaccidsteele wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:34 am “Retirement police” is just another term for envy 😂
I suspect that you're mostly correct.

Personally, I am far more concerned with financial independence than early retirement. If I have the former, then I have the choice as to whether I want to do the latter.

Fritz of The Retirement Manifesto says that the 'RE' or FIRE should be renamed 'recreational employment'.
I like this framing of RE. I just won’t tell future employers that haha :D .
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by firebirdparts »

rj342 wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:45 pm Feels different than someone patting themselves for extreme FIRE while getting their kids on the school's free lunch and breakfast and a bunch of other services by manipulating their reported income. Not that I have ever noticed an extreme FIRE person say they've done that, but I do wonder sometimes.
You wouldn't have to manipulate your income. It is what it is. You'd just have to decide whether or not to apply for and accept government support. Taxable income for these folks is going to be legitimately low.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (how you spend your money and your time).

To keep the discussion actionable, please focus on your own situation.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by LadyGeek »

I removed a contentious interchange regarding lifestyle choices (having children) and the impact on retirement. The discussion was getting derailed.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by vrex »

I came across Terhorst’s book in 1989. More than any book I have ever read, it changed my life. I had a job that I did not care for much and that book inspired me to start saving in earnest and get my finances in order. I closely tracked my expenses so I knew how much it cost me to live. In 1999 I retired from AT&T at the age of 48. I was a communications technician, a CWA union member, and never made more than $50k/year. Now that I think of it, I have not worked for money in this century. I never missed my job, and never regretted my decision. I am now 68, healthy and have been doing what I want for 20 years. It’s not for everyone, but it was right for me. No regrets.
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Re: Early retirement - Long term "successes"

Post by Plano »

I am also curious how very early retirees plan for and manage the costs of healthcare for decades. If they retired before the ACA was enacted, how did they manage?
rj342 wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:45 pm OTOH I distinctly remember that being one of the selling points of ACA, giving people more options how to live their live's without healthcare hanging over their heads quite so badly.

Feels different than someone patting themselves for extreme FIRE while getting their kids on the school's free lunch and breakfast and a bunch of other services by manipulating their reported income. Not that I have ever noticed an extreme FIRE person say they've done that, but I do wonder sometimes.
I used to think it's apples and oranges. But not after reading about so many accounts of how to lower your taxable income in order to get "free health insurance!" The glee of some FI folks at gaming the system is evident in all the exclamation points. Here's a quote from one such article https://www.investopedia.com/articles/p ... -early.asp (emphasis added):
“Now that we have Obamacare and it looks like it’s not going away, everyone has access to buy health insurance with no health questions asked. The exchanges have plans, and also have tax credits to help pay for a plan. For example: You retire at age 59, roll over your pensions and 401(k)s and do not take any distributions from any taxable accounts so that your taxable income is below $17,000 per year (as a single person). If your state accepted the Medicaid expansion, you qualify for free health insurance!” says Chris Cooper, CFP®, ChFC, EA, MSFS, Chris Cooper & Company, San Diego, Calif. “After that, if your income is less than $27,000, you qualify for premium assistance under the ACA in the form of tax credits to reduce your premium outlays, and reduced co-pays and deductibles that are close to zero! And if you can keep your income under $47,000, you still have tax credits, just not as much, to help pay for premiums. Just do this tax plan until you are 65 and eligible for Medicare!
Some people might argue they're legally entitled to free stuff society has, thus far, only provided for the elderly, disabled, and poor ("welfare" is such a loaded word) when they FIRE. It's considered a virtue to be smart enough to collect all legal freebies, even if in "fat FIRE." They argue that's why they're FI -- they're smart enough to avoid paying for stuff. But I am sure there are others who perceive a moral dilemma in receiving free healthcare while able-bodied, young, and FI.

If we decide to RE, our taxable income will be low enough to qualify us for the "free health insurance!" We've been doing backdoor Roths, conversions, and have saved enough in post-tax accounts. But the spouse and I plan to think really hard about how to pay it forward, because we will not yet be elderly, nor poor or disabled. It feels wrong to take a benefit not intended for us. I understand it is possible to decline the ACA subsidies by going with an "off-exchange plan," but isn't that just giving money to an insurance company? Plus, there are risks https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... -exchanges. Perhaps by the time we retire, the ACA loopholes will be gone or free healthcare will no longer be just for the elderly, disabled, and poor. But I'm not holding my breath...

In the meantime, the spouse and I are interested in how (or even if) other folks pay their fair share after FIRE. Donating to a free medical clinic? Clearing medical debt that has gone to collections for the poor (like https://ripmedicaldebt.org/)?
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