Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

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bryanm
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Re: Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

Post by bryanm »

That seems potentially promising, given that defender implements a firewall. Hopefully the issue does not reoccur.
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newbie003
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Re: Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

Post by newbie003 »

bryanm wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:58 pm That seems potentially promising, given that defender implements a firewall. Hopefully the issue does not reoccur.
Fingers crossed but not holding my breath :)
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Peculiar_Investor
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Re: Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

Post by Peculiar_Investor »

newbie003 wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:06 pm Fingers crossed but not holding my breath :)
Since the OP reported this happened regularly, about one a day, can we assume a) that is has been fixed or b) that it got worse and they cannot connect anywhere and therefore cannot provide an update.

As a software engineer, these 'intermittent problems' are the worse to diagnose and resolve.
Normal people… believe that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain’t broke, it doesn’t have enough features yet. – Scott Adams
sycamore
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Re: Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

Post by sycamore »

One more thing to try. Assuming the problem happens like this:
1. User opens browser and browses to site https://siteA.com in tab 1.
2. User can do stuff with siteA, like click on links, etc.
3. User opens another browser tab and browses to a different site https://siteB.com. siteB never loads. Browser status bar shows message like "looking up siteB.com".

On step 3, instead of browsing to siteB.com, open a Windows command prompt and type "ping siteB.com" to find its IP address. Then browse to https://<IP address>. I would expect this should skip the initial DNS lookup, and at least allow the initial page retrieval to work. Other DNS lookups for resources in the page may get stuck, though.

This might help pinpoint the problem to the DNS lookup rather than the HTTP requests for the page.
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newbie003
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Re: Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

Post by newbie003 »

Peculiar_Investor wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:45 pm
newbie003 wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:06 pm Fingers crossed but not holding my breath :)
Since the OP reported this happened regularly, about one a day, can we assume a) that is has been fixed or b) that it got worse and they cannot connect anywhere and therefore cannot provide an update.

As a software engineer, these 'intermittent problems' are the worse to diagnose and resolve.
Hasn't happened again since yesterday. It's not necessarily once a day, but usually within 1-3 days. Still crossing my fingers...
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newbie003
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Re: Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

Post by newbie003 »

sycamore wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:17 pm One more thing to try. Assuming the problem happens like this:
1. User opens browser and browses to site https://siteA.com in tab 1.
2. User can do stuff with siteA, like click on links, etc.
3. User opens another browser tab and browses to a different site https://siteB.com. siteB never loads. Browser status bar shows message like "looking up siteB.com".

On step 3, instead of browsing to siteB.com, open a Windows command prompt and type "ping siteB.com" to find its IP address. Then browse to https://<IP address>. I would expect this should skip the initial DNS lookup, and at least allow the initial page retrieval to work. Other DNS lookups for resources in the page may get stuck, though.

This might help pinpoint the problem to the DNS lookup rather than the HTTP requests for the page.
I can certainly try the ping idea to get an IP and try to browse the IP, but I don't believe your steps 1 and 2 are accurately describing the problem.

When the problem occurs, I already have Chrome open, with many tabs open. All existing tabs will continue to work. A new tab will not work. If I open a new browser (say ffox), nothing will work (not even a site that is working in an existing Chrome tab).
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newbie003
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Re: Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

Post by newbie003 »

Update: All had been great until moments ago when it just went down again.

I used the windows admin tool thing and was able to save an outfile. I cannot open the saved Index file in chrome (regular or incognito), but I can open it in ffox. In addition, I can actually browse to websites in ffox. It says Looking up www.whatever.com in lower left, but eventually loads the page (very slow). In Chrome, it gets stuck 'Waiting for www.whatever.com' and eventually chrome asks if i want to kill the page.

So the behavior is a little different than last week in that ffox used to also time out, but is now eventually loading. and it opened the outfile very quickly, whereas chrome won't even open that.

The outfile opens just fine in Edge, and I can actually browse the web quick quickly in Edge (unlike ffox which seems to work but is slow).

If I try to open the outfile in IE it immediately says:

Can’t reach this page

•Make sure the web address is correct
•Search for this site on Bing
•Refresh the page

More information More information
This website could not be found.
Error Code: INET_E_RESOURCE_NOT_FOUND

Here are the results of an nslookup:

C:\WINDOWS\system32>nslookup bogleheads.org
Server: one.one.one.one
Address: 1.1.1.1

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: bogleheads.org
Address: 66.209.71.244

I also pinged bogleheads.org and got this:

66.209.71.244

Pinging bogleheads.org [66.209.71.244] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 66.209.71.244: bytes=32 time=100ms TTL=43
Reply from 66.209.71.244: bytes=32 time=99ms TTL=43
Reply from 66.209.71.244: bytes=32 time=112ms TTL=43
Reply from 66.209.71.244: bytes=32 time=101ms TTL=43

Ping statistics for 66.209.71.244:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 99ms, Maximum = 112ms, Average = 103ms

I then tried to browse directly to 66.209.... and I get stuck at this: Waiting for www.bogleheads.org (in lower left corner of Chrome). In lower left of ffox it says Waiting for 66.209.71.244, but then it actually loaded it a few seconds later (as mentioned above).

Hmm.... Maybe this is a Windows type issue where it's 'accidentally' breaking other browsers, yet allowing Edge to work just fine...?
bloom2708
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Re: Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

Post by bloom2708 »

I would uninstall both Malwarebytes and Avast.

I assume you aren't using a VPN of any type?

Make sure Defender is up to date and all patches are installed after deleting those 2 apps.

Something is sending your traffic to strange places. I did find a couple of old threads about www.whatever.com coming up. Nothing in the threads seemed relevant.
"We are here to provoke thoughtfulness, not agree with you." Unknown Boglehead
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newbie003
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Re: Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

Post by newbie003 »

bloom2708 wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:59 am I would uninstall both Malwarebytes and Avast.

I assume you aren't using a VPN of any type?

Make sure Defender is up to date and all patches are installed after deleting those 2 apps.

Something is sending your traffic to strange places. I did find a couple of old threads about www.whatever.com coming up. Nothing in the threads seemed relevant.
Sorry, my bad; by "whatever.com" I just meant whatever URL I was trying to get to (not literally "whatever.com").
bloom2708
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Re: Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

Post by bloom2708 »

newbie003 wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:02 am
bloom2708 wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:59 am I would uninstall both Malwarebytes and Avast.

I assume you aren't using a VPN of any type?

Make sure Defender is up to date and all patches are installed after deleting those 2 apps.

Something is sending your traffic to strange places. I did find a couple of old threads about www.whatever.com coming up. Nothing in the threads seemed relevant.
Sorry, my bad; by "whatever.com" I just meant whatever URL I was trying to get to (not literally "whatever.com").
OK. That makes more sense. I'd still start removing potential apps deflecting traffic. I use Defender and ADWCleaner. Nothing else required.

Did you ever reboot your modem and router? Many times the modem reboot installs updates and picks up changes from the ISP. A quarterly reboot of the modem isn't a bad idea.
"We are here to provoke thoughtfulness, not agree with you." Unknown Boglehead
bryanm
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Re: Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

Post by bryanm »

Super interesting. Per your past post, you do not have an internet problem. You have an HTML rendering problem!

The powerscript can grab the HTML, which means your able to grab web pages. For whatever reason, Chrome and IE can't display the (local) HTML, and Firefox has issues with it. If you can't browse local HTML, that's no longer an "internet" issue. So it's not your DNS, internet settings, etc., etc.

What could it be? Still not sure, but it's almost certainly a software issue somewhere in the browser(s). I'll continue to think, but in the meantime, I think we can put the internet testing to rest and focus on local software.
bryanm
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Re: Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

Post by bryanm »

Maybe a silly question, but have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling Chrome? Since IE/Firefox/Chrome all have problems, it might be a broader issue. But the fact that Edge doesn't have issues gives me hope.
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bertilak
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Re: Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

Post by bertilak »

Go to https://www.misk.com/tools/. This lets you see what name servers have to say about URLs (e.g. bogleheads.org) and IP addresses (e.g. 66.209.71.244).

I get the following result from bogleheads.org:
  • 1 hour A 66.209.71.244
    1 hour MX spamwall.winux.com (10)
    1 hour TXT v=spf1 mx a ip4:66.70.177.79 ip4:216.55.104.110/32 ~all
I get the following result from 66.209.71.244 (including the red text):
  • Forward Lookup Does Not Match Reverse Dns (learn more)
    No A Records
Trying the same experiment with microsoft.com and google.com get me much more complex results (above my pay grade to decipher) but, tellingly, nothing in red.

Perhaps someone with a higher pay grade (the administrator of bogleheads.org?) can learn something useful from this!
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet
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newbie003
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Re: Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

Post by newbie003 »

bryanm wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:37 pm Super interesting. Per your past post, you do not have an internet problem. You have an HTML rendering problem!

The powerscript can grab the HTML, which means your able to grab web pages. For whatever reason, Chrome and IE can't display the (local) HTML, and Firefox has issues with it. If you can't browse local HTML, that's no longer an "internet" issue. So it's not your DNS, internet settings, etc., etc.

What could it be? Still not sure, but it's almost certainly a software issue somewhere in the browser(s). I'll continue to think, but in the meantime, I think we can put the internet testing to rest and focus on local software.
Agreed that it doesn't seem to be an internet problem. In fact, for much of the day I've been using Edge with no problems at all (along with Thunderbird already open Chrome tabs). In addition, Chrome was actually working a little (different than last week) just very, very slowly.

I ended up rebooting and of course now is all back to normal.

Perhaps I will try reinstalling Chrome/ffox but, given that both of them (along with IE) go down, when Edge doesn't, seems like reinstalling won't help. Really seems to be a software issue/something blocking certain browsers.

Maybe I should try to uninstall recent Windows updates and see if that fixes it...?
bryanm
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Re: Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

Post by bryanm »

This gets beyond my knowledge of the browser stack, but to distinguish between a bad browser config and a problem at the OS level (whether that's with Windows itself or some kind of intercepting malware), you could also download the portable version of Firefox (or Chrome). If that works, you have a problem with installed browsers. Otherwise, it's at the OS level.
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newbie003
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Re: Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

Post by newbie003 »

bryanm wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:10 pm This gets beyond my knowledge of the browser stack, but to distinguish between a bad browser config and a problem at the OS level (whether that's with Windows itself or some kind of intercepting malware), you could also download the portable version of Firefox (or Chrome). If that works, you have a problem with installed browsers. Otherwise, it's at the OS level.
Great idea. I actually have those already, never thought to try them!
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newbie003
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Re: Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

Post by newbie003 »

When I go down (which I just did), chrome and ffox portable don't work either.
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Peculiar_Investor
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Re: Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

Post by Peculiar_Investor »

Peculiar_Investor wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:14 am Google turned up How to Clear the Google Chrome DNS cache on Windows which shows some internal Chrome tools that might be worth looking at.
If you experience any DNS or host error related browsing issues, it can sometimes help to perform a DNS and Socket flush using your Google Chrome browser. In order to fix these problems, follow these simple steps.

Begin by opening Google Chrome and type in this address: chrome://net-internals/#dns and press “Enter.”
The article goes on to provide some further built in tools (i.e. sockets) that might be useful to debug/resolve.
In Chrome did you try

Code: Select all

chrome://net-internals/#dns
and see if the results show anything unexpected?
Normal people… believe that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain’t broke, it doesn’t have enough features yet. – Scott Adams
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newbie003
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Re: Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

Post by newbie003 »

Peculiar_Investor wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:53 am
Peculiar_Investor wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:14 am Google turned up How to Clear the Google Chrome DNS cache on Windows which shows some internal Chrome tools that might be worth looking at.
If you experience any DNS or host error related browsing issues, it can sometimes help to perform a DNS and Socket flush using your Google Chrome browser. In order to fix these problems, follow these simple steps.

Begin by opening Google Chrome and type in this address: chrome://net-internals/#dns and press “Enter.”
The article goes on to provide some further built in tools (i.e. sockets) that might be useful to debug/resolve.
In Chrome did you try

Code: Select all

chrome://net-internals/#dns
and see if the results show anything unexpected?
I did go there and I cleared the host cache, but didn't do anything further.
bryanm
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Re: Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

Post by bryanm »

Okay, the next troubleshooting steps are:
  • Throw your computer out the window
  • Solved!
In all seriousness, there seems to be something fundamental at the OS level that's interfering with operation of (most) browsers. Edge is relatively new and doesn't have support for many common plugin frameworks, so that's perhaps why it has escaped interference. The only solutions I can think of at this stage are more drastic.

For example, you might consider Refreshing your Windows 10 install. That will maintain files, but uninstall applications. A pain, but short of wipe and re-install (or magically finding what's doing this), it might be your best bet.
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newbie003
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Re: Computer/internet/DNS(?) problem

Post by newbie003 »

bryanm wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:54 pm Okay, the next troubleshooting steps are:
  • Throw your computer out the window
  • Solved!
In all seriousness, there seems to be something fundamental at the OS level that's interfering with operation of (most) browsers. Edge is relatively new and doesn't have support for many common plugin frameworks, so that's perhaps why it has escaped interference. The only solutions I can think of at this stage are more drastic.

For example, you might consider Refreshing your Windows 10 install. That will maintain files, but uninstall applications. A pain, but short of wipe and re-install (or magically finding what's doing this), it might be your best bet.
Yep, about ready to toss it and just get a new one...

I agree that it looks to be a Windows issue of some sort, not a browser or modem or router issue...

I'll think about refreshing windows.

Thanks again.
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