speakers

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investment rube
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speakers

Post by investment rube » Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:12 am

I'm thinking about replacing my B&W 640s. I listen to mostly classical, some rock, some Motown, some big band and the occasional jazz. I'm open to floor standing or bookshelf. Thinking in the 3K range. Any bogle audiophiles out there? Thanks.

ARoseByAnyOtherName
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Re: speakers

Post by ARoseByAnyOtherName » Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:37 am

investment rube wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:12 am
I'm thinking about replacing my B&W 640s. I listen to mostly classical, some rock, some Motown, some big band and the occasional jazz. I'm open to floor standing or bookshelf. Thinking in the 3K range. Any bogle audiophiles out there? Thanks.
What don't you like about your B&W 640s that makes you want to replace them?

bob60014
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Re: speakers

Post by bob60014 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:29 am

More info please as to why?

GmanJeff
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Re: speakers

Post by GmanJeff » Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:21 am

I have and like Amphion Argon 3LS towers. https://amphion.fi/enjoy/products-home- ... udspeaker/

bloom2708
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Re: speakers

Post by bloom2708 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:28 am

KEF R7 might be a good option. Or R5.

KEF is making some nice sounding speakers.
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sleepysurf
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Re: speakers

Post by sleepysurf » Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:43 am

Before buying new speakers, I suggest watching this Steve Guttenberg ("The Audiophiliac") video re speaker placement... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu6tXrjYZAA

He's a bit quirky, but gives good advice. In true BH fashion, these tips could significantly improve your sound, at no cost!
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: speakers

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:01 am

In addition to the speaker placement suggestion, I recommend doing some room tuning and EQ (I’m personally a fan of Anthem Room Correction and any number of bass traps and reflection control panels).

But, if you’re looking for loudspeakers, I really enjoy electrostatics, and Martin Logan ESL X, IMO, is a good value proposition slightly above your target budget.
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legio XX
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Re: speakers

Post by legio XX » Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:19 am

sleepysurf wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:43 am
Before buying new speakers, I suggest watching this Steve Guttenberg ("The Audiophiliac") video re speaker placement... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu6tXrjYZAA

He's a bit quirky, but gives good advice. In true BH fashion, these tips could significantly improve your sound, at no cost!
Just did a few of the things he suggested - angled the speakers and moved them out from the wall a bit more. Like the result. Thanks for this.

cashboy
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Re: speakers

Post by cashboy » Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:17 pm

i have an older model of these; simply great. they also make centers and surrounds to match.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_714RP280F ... Ebony.html
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unclescrooge
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Re: speakers

Post by unclescrooge » Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:55 pm

2 Christmases ago, I bought a set of Elac, KEF, Whaefdale and Polk audio bookshelf speakers from Amazon.

I did a side by side comparison between them all listening to my favorite music, and kept the one I liked best. I sent the others back.

azanon
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Re: speakers

Post by azanon » Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:12 pm

I use ascendacoustics.com, and have for many years (very pleased with them). Their top of the line Sierra Tower Floorstandings go for $2200-$2300/pair, although their best product is probably their Sierra-2EX bookshelf speakers currently on sale for $1500/pair.

RobLyons
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Re: speakers

Post by RobLyons » Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:35 pm

Any reason why you want to upgrade? Those are really good speakers. Whats the rest of your system like - receiver, your wiring, connectors, sound stage, etc? If you already have premium equipment you could buy their upgraded/updated replacement, the 683 or 603.

If you're looking for other brands outside of B&W:

Dynaudio Xeo 30
SVS Prime Pinnacle
KEF R7
GoldenEar Technology Triton One.R ($6k/pair)
MarkAudio-SOTA Cesti T
Monitor Audio Gold 300 ($7k/pair)
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quantAndHold
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Re: speakers

Post by quantAndHold » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:11 pm

It would be hard to make a recommendation without knowing what’s wrong with the B&W 640’s.

NewOldGuy
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Re: speakers

Post by NewOldGuy » Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:10 pm

I'm not a audiophile, but a fan of good sound. IMHO, unless ones tower speakers cost $20K, one should invest in the best sub-woofer(s) available. Once the sub 25k hz range is fully covered, you can then set your towers to small speakers on the receiver and the sound should become much fuller. The lowest range of the typical tower can then meld with upper range of the sub and no sound is lost. By lost sound I mean that sometimes a sub can cancel out the lows of towers. Let the qualified sub do the low workings. I know this goes against many mindsets that believe tower speakers should cover the entire spectrum, but most the time they really don't.

Dottie57
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Re: speakers

Post by Dottie57 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:58 pm

NewOldGuy wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:10 pm
I'm not a audiophile, but a fan of good sound. IMHO, unless ones tower speakers cost $20K, one should invest in the best sub-woofer(s) available. Once the sub 25k hz range is fully covered, you can then set your towers to small speakers on the receiver and the sound should become much fuller. The lowest range of the typical tower can then meld with upper range of the sub and no sound is lost. By lost sound I mean that sometimes a sub can cancel out the lows of towers. Let the qualified sub do the low workings. I know this goes against many mindsets that believe tower speakers should cover the entire spectrum, but most the time they really don't.
Isn’t this mostly for an av system. When listening to music I hate heavy base.

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Sandi_k
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Re: speakers

Post by Sandi_k » Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:27 pm

unclescrooge wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:55 pm
2 Christmases ago, I bought a set of Elac, KEF, Whaefdale and Polk audio bookshelf speakers from Amazon.

I did a side by side comparison between them all listening to my favorite music, and kept the one I liked best. I sent the others back.
OK, but which did you keep?!

DH bought me a set of Sonus Faber Cremona speakers a few years back, and I LOVE THEM. It is an amazing thing to have speakers that are good, playing music that you love.

Topic Author
investment rube
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Re: speakers

Post by investment rube » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:57 pm

bob60014 wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:29 am
More info please as to why?
Thanks for the input everyone.

The reason I'm thinking of replacing the B&Ws is simply the search for better.
I'd like more detail and a larger soundstage. I like hearing the bows and the turning of pages and all the instruments clearly. Also, I listen at different volumes and, in my opinion, the B&Ws are best when louder.

I'm using a NAD 7050 integrated amp. No AV or surround, just music.
The wires aren't anything special. Just speaker wires with a little extra heft.

I have tried changing the placement, and it does help. But the room I'm using also acts as a semi-workshop. So I'm not glued to a seat reading liner notes. Actually, I'd prefer speakers that were less sensitive to placement.

I'm reading what I can - trying to sift through all the jargon, techno-speak and hype.

It seems like every review is positive. And 3-4k for a pair of speakers is a notch above entry level.

I live in LA and will try to demo whatever I can.

Obviously, this is subjective but I do appreciate recommendations/suggestions.

ARoseByAnyOtherName
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Re: speakers

Post by ARoseByAnyOtherName » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:58 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:28 am
KEF R7 might be a good option. Or R5.

KEF is making some nice sounding speakers.
Why do you think KEF R7's are better than B&W 640's?

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unclescrooge
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Re: speakers

Post by unclescrooge » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:13 am

Sandi_k wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:27 pm
unclescrooge wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:55 pm
2 Christmases ago, I bought a set of Elac, KEF, Whaefdale and Polk audio bookshelf speakers from Amazon.

I did a side by side comparison between them all listening to my favorite music, and kept the one I liked best. I sent the others back.
OK, but which did you keep?!

DH bought me a set of Sonus Faber Cremona speakers a few years back, and I LOVE THEM. It is an amazing thing to have speakers that are good, playing music that you love.
I kept the Elac debut 2.0 b6 speakers.
I really wanted to keep the KEF Q150, but they were slightly inferior to my ears.
I think a lot depends on your set up, type of music you listen to, and the receiver you pair them with. You really have to listen to them in your room to make a good decision.
Last edited by unclescrooge on Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

cacophony
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Re: speakers

Post by cacophony » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:30 am

I'd suggest checking out Salk Sound as they have a lot of great options between $2-3k.

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watchnerd
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Re: speakers

Post by watchnerd » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:45 am

investment rube wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:12 am
I'm thinking about replacing my B&W 640s. I listen to mostly classical, some rock, some Motown, some big band and the occasional jazz. I'm open to floor standing or bookshelf. Thinking in the 3K range. Any bogle audiophiles out there? Thanks.
I like my Dynaudio Contour 20.

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NewOldGuy
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Re: speakers

Post by NewOldGuy » Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:23 am

Dottie57 wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:58 pm
NewOldGuy wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:10 pm
I'm not a audiophile, but a fan of good sound. IMHO, unless ones tower speakers cost $20K, one should invest in the best sub-woofer(s) available. Once the sub 25k hz range is fully covered, you can then set your towers to small speakers on the receiver and the sound should become much fuller. The lowest range of the typical tower can then meld with upper range of the sub and no sound is lost. By lost sound I mean that sometimes a sub can cancel out the lows of towers. Let the qualified sub do the low workings. I know this goes against many mindsets that believe tower speakers should cover the entire spectrum, but most the time they really don't.
Isn’t this mostly for an av system. When listening to music I hate heavy base.
Not at all. Sure if you want to shake the couch during the tank scene in Saving Private Ryan, you need to raise the volume a tad on the sub. I listen to music in 2.1 and Jazz as with almost any genre can sound better if you have the components to reproduce the sounds as intended. There's a lot of music below 25hz that's not (c)rap. If a system is properly calibrated using a sound db meter and test DVD (AVIA), you can hear 20Khz down to 15hz. If there are voids the meter shows it. Speaker placement and room acoustics can have a dramatic affect. There's nothing wrong with removing the science and just saying it sounds great as is, but hearing is so subjective, sometimes you don't know what you're missing until you really hear it.

Check out SVS subs. The one I bought 25 years ago resembles a small water heater. :D https://www.svsound.com/collections/subwoofers

DiploInvestor
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Re: speakers

Post by DiploInvestor » Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:39 am

I like my B&W CM9s -- a lot. I got the whole 5 speaker surround setup (CM5s bookshelves for surround and CM center channel) several years ago, used, 1 year old, for $2500. I believe they all would have cost at least $7500 new. The guy I bought them from had too much cash burning a hole in his pocket and was upgrading to the Nautilus series, with $1500 per individual speaker cable to boot. The CM9s have been great, and I paired them with a high quality subwoofer to make them even better. I'm not sure they still make them, but if you can get some used at a decent price, they're definitely worth it. I wouldn't have bought them new, but I scored a good deal.

Also don't skimp on the speaker wire - get a roll of heavy gauge copper wire and good connectors and make your own.
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sleepysurf
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Re: speakers

Post by sleepysurf » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:18 am

investment rube wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:57 pm
... I have tried changing the placement, and it does help. But the room I'm using also acts as a semi-workshop. So I'm not glued to a seat reading liner notes. Actually, I'd prefer speakers that were less sensitive to placement...
You might want to consider an "omnidirectional" speaker design that provides good imaging throughout the room, vs. having a narrow "sweet spot." Some of the Ohm Acoustics models are within your price range... https://ohmspeaker.com/speakers/
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yatesd
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Re: speakers

Post by yatesd » Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:15 am

I love great speakers and great sound. Don't have any specific recommendations except to not compromise too much on size. I prefer floor standing.

My biggest tip...avsforum is the best place to get guidance in this area.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/index.php

fogalog
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Re: speakers

Post by fogalog » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:19 pm

investment rube wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:57 pm
bob60014 wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:29 am
More info please as to why?
Thanks for the input everyone.

The reason I'm thinking of replacing the B&Ws is simply the search for better.
I'd like more detail and a larger soundstage. I like hearing the bows and the turning of pages and all the instruments clearly. Also, I listen at different volumes and, in my opinion, the B&Ws are best when louder.

I'm using a NAD 7050 integrated amp. No AV or surround, just music.
The wires aren't anything special. Just speaker wires with a little extra heft.

I have tried changing the placement, and it does help. But the room I'm using also acts as a semi-workshop. So I'm not glued to a seat reading liner notes. Actually, I'd prefer speakers that were less sensitive to placement.

I'm reading what I can - trying to sift through all the jargon, techno-speak and hype.

It seems like every review is positive. And 3-4k for a pair of speakers is a notch above entry level.

I live in LA and will try to demo whatever I can.

Obviously, this is subjective but I do appreciate recommendations/suggestions.
If you like the B&W sound, you could try moving up in the same range for more detail. It's a little beyond your stated range but there is a pair of second hand 802s (the original ones) for $4,400 on Audiogon right now. I have a friend with these exact speakers and they are excellent. [disclaimer: I am a fan of both B&W and audiogon]

Another suggestion: I don't know the amp you are using but you could also try adding a powered sub to your current setup. I did this for my living room - also sub-optimal for placement, etc. - and it made a night-and-day difference. If it works, it will be a lot cheaper too.

Good luck!

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: speakers

Post by Doom&Gloom » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:55 pm

fogalog wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:19 pm
investment rube wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:57 pm
bob60014 wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:29 am
More info please as to why?
Thanks for the input everyone.

The reason I'm thinking of replacing the B&Ws is simply the search for better.
I'd like more detail and a larger soundstage. I like hearing the bows and the turning of pages and all the instruments clearly. Also, I listen at different volumes and, in my opinion, the B&Ws are best when louder.

I'm using a NAD 7050 integrated amp. No AV or surround, just music.
The wires aren't anything special. Just speaker wires with a little extra heft.

I have tried changing the placement, and it does help. But the room I'm using also acts as a semi-workshop. So I'm not glued to a seat reading liner notes. Actually, I'd prefer speakers that were less sensitive to placement.

I'm reading what I can - trying to sift through all the jargon, techno-speak and hype.

It seems like every review is positive. And 3-4k for a pair of speakers is a notch above entry level.

I live in LA and will try to demo whatever I can.

Obviously, this is subjective but I do appreciate recommendations/suggestions.
If you like the B&W sound, you could try moving up in the same range for more detail. It's a little beyond your stated range but there is a pair of second hand 802s (the original ones) for $4,400 on Audiogon right now. I have a friend with these exact speakers and they are excellent. [disclaimer: I am a fan of both B&W and audiogon]

Another suggestion: I don't know the amp you are using but you could also try adding a powered sub to your current setup. I did this for my living room - also sub-optimal for placement, etc. - and it made a night-and-day difference. If it works, it will be a lot cheaper too.

Good luck!
+1 to the suggestion of adding a good subwoofer if you don't have one already. You may well discover that you no longer wish to upgrade your speakers. If you go that route, I'm a big fan of Power Sound Audio subs (disclaimer: I have three). Also second the recommendation above re: AVS forums.

https://www.powersoundaudio.com/

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: speakers

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:15 pm

One of the biggest problems with adding a sub is integrating it with your mains. Placement is also difficult. I suggest Martin Logan subs because many of their models come with built in Anthem Room Correction, and they are very musical (i.e., emphasizing musicality rather than massive sound output). Nothing wrong with the other subs mentioned, but you should have some automated software for EQ.
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Dudley
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Re: speakers

Post by Dudley » Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:22 pm

Ascend Acoustics.

apex84
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Re: speakers

Post by apex84 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:39 pm

Revel Speakers are very high quality. They do far more to apply science to the design of a speaker than just about any other brand. Most audiophile speakers don't actually perform well. These do.

https://www.revelspeakers.com

Another, less conventional option, would be a powered monitor from Genelec.

https://www.genelec.com/home-speakers
https://www.genelec.com/theones

bloom2708
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Re: speakers

Post by bloom2708 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:29 am

ARoseByAnyOtherName wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:58 pm
bloom2708 wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:28 am
KEF R7 might be a good option. Or R5.

KEF is making some nice sounding speakers.
Why do you think KEF R7's are better than B&W 640's?
Better is in the ear of the listener. I don't know if they are "better".

The OP said he wanted something different around $3k.

Why do you think either is "better"?
"People want confirmation, not advice" Unknown | "We are here to provoke thoughtfulness, not agree with you" Unknown | Four words: Whole food, plant based

anonenigma
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Re: speakers

Post by anonenigma » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:02 pm

Check Silverline Audio: http://www.silverlineaudio.com/

I have an early pair of their Sonatinas, which likely meet your requirements, though the current Sonatina is twice your budget. They do have speakers (Prelude + at $1,999) that are within your budget. They also have crazy expensive speakers in the tens of thousands of dollars. Alan Yun is a great speaker designer.

They're in the Bay Area. Perhaps worth reading up on them. Maybe begin with:
http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/silverli ... udspeakers

monty
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Re: speakers

Post by monty » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:31 pm

Check out Audiogon.com, they share their knowledge of audio like this site does for investing.

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