Narrowing down where to live

[ThankYouJack]

We're considering moving and aren't sure if we'll move literally down the road or across the country. I telecommute for work so we have a lot of flexibility. Home budget would be ~$600k for a small single family, ideally less but we could spend more if needed.

Top of the list would be something that is great for raising a family, great weather (short winters, not a lot of rain), the great outdoors at your doorstep.

For some reason Utah is piquing my interest. I've only been to Moab and driven through - it seems super remote so I'd want to at least live in one of the larger towns / smaller cities. We get along with religious and non-religious people and republicans and democrats. Although we tend to lean left and I do also like some diversity and living in a bit of a melting pot - which doesn't make me think of Utah.

Anyway, I'm open to suggestions, but especially curious for those who also have flexibility (not tied to location because of work or family), how did you narrow down and decide where you live?

[stoptothink]

There are many of us Bogeheads who live in Utah. I've lived all over the west, but have been in Utah County (~30 miles south of SLC) for 7yrs and probably am here for good. Diversity; I am Hispanic and am the only member of my family that is LDS, nonetheless almost all of my family has moved here in the last 5yrs (from California, Arizona, Texas, and New York) and they all love it. Great place to raise a family (we are a young family, kids 7 and 4) and plenty of diversity as far as I am concerned (from a Hispanic who grew up non-religious in LA). As far as the outdoors right on your doorstep, there are several dozen awesome hikes <10 miles from my front door. Feel free to ask any direct questions.

[tennisplyr]

This site has some basic consumer info:

www.city-data.com/forum/

[MotoTrojan]

At $600K I would think there are more nature oriented places in California away from the coast that could meet your criteria. I am leaving California myself and the areas I am looking $600K would get you a mansion.

[HawkeyePierce]

Have you looked at St. George in Utah? I’d also consider Fort Collins in Colorado.

[rich126]

It seems risky to just pick a place without testing it out for a while. I've lived in AZ several times before and enjoyed and thought it would be my retirement place. I recently moved back there after not living there for 7+ years, although I had visited frequently, and it has changed enough that I'm reconsidering my options.

Moving somewhere, spending a bunch on a house and then finding out you don't really want to be there can be an expensive lesson. Just on real estate commissions and moving expenses you could lose $50K+. (In my case all of my moves have been paid by companies I worked for.)

It is a tougher decision than I thought it would be.

Good luck.

[oldfatguy]

We're considering moving and aren't sure if we'll move literally down the road or across the country. I telecommute for work so we have a lot of flexibility. Home budget would be ~$600k for a small single family, ideally less but we could spend more if needed.

Top of the list would be something that is great for raising a family, great weather (short winters, not a lot of rain), the great outdoors at your doorstep.

Short winters sounds like terrible weather to me.

[RickBoglehead]

Criteria is way too broad for any advice.

Many sites, posted in recent threads, help narrow things down.

Tuscaloosa.

[ThankYouJack]

Thanks all. The plan is to cast a wide net, do a lot of research and travel to top places on the list.

After doing some more research on Utah, the winters may be too long. And based on some of the city data posts that I read, it may be too conservative for my preference. I bet I'd like it there, but I don't think it'll be on the top of my list.

In terms of Tuscaloosa, I'll have to look up the schools. What are the mountains, lakes and rivers like? I don't know much about the city or AL in general but will look into it some.

[jabberwockOG]

I live in a small town that is growing like wildfire and generally refuse to tell anyone where we are because we are being overrun at this point. Sadly, and as usual, the baby boomers are swarming and ruining all the good places to live (acknowledging that I am part of the problem).

[ThankYouJack]

I live in a small town that is growing like wildfire and generally refuse to tell anyone where we are because we are being overrun at this point. Sadly, and as usual, the baby boomers are swarming and ruining all the good places to live (acknowledging that I am part of the problem).

I'm in a similar situation (but in a medium sized city) and I think that's part of my problem as I'm not a big fan of traffic, crowds, congestion. Seems to be only getting worse in the places that are most desirable to live.

[22twain]

do a lot of research and travel to top places on the list.

Try doing as much of the travel as possible in the form of road trips so you can see the places along the way. You might stumble across some unsung place that nobody would think of in advance, but "speaks" to you somehow when you're there, and makes you want to linger a while to check it out more fully.

[123]

While you may be able to telecommute with your present employer that might not always be the case. Employers come and go. What is acceptable in the workplace changes with different managers. I would recommend that you consider availability of alternate employers in your search for alternate locations.

[leeks]

If I had that kind of flexibility, I would live near enough to our parents that they could spend a lot of time with grandkids and we could easily assist them as they age.

[phxjcc]

You need to do what we used to call a “forced ranking” of your criteria.

Eg,
1. Short winters
2. Liberal
3. Good schools
Etc
Etc.

For 10 criteria, #1 gets 10 pets, #2 gets 9 pets, etc.
Make a spreadsheet, look up the criteria ranking for the top 25 MSA’s and, Bob’s your uncle, you’ll get your own answer.

[RickBoglehead]

Thanks all. The plan is to cast a wide net, do a lot of research and travel to top places on the list.

After doing some more research on Utah, the winters may be too long. And based on some of the city data posts that I read, it may be too conservative for my preference. I bet I'd like it there, but I don't think it'll be on the top of my list.

In terms of Tuscaloosa, I'll have to look up the schools. What are the mountains, lakes and rivers like? I don't know much about the city or AL in general but will look into it some.

It was said tongue in cheek because your lack of specific criteria makes it impossible to provide an answer. Alabama would be at the bottom of many lists, as would Mississippi.

There are many sites that rate places on many criteria. Without criteria, there isn't anything to rate... If you don't like winters, you successfully eliminated half of the country, or more.

[Startingover2019]

Thanks all. The plan is to cast a wide net, do a lot of research and travel to top places on the list.

After doing some more research on Utah, the winters may be too long. And based on some of the city data posts that I read, it may be too conservative for my preference. I bet I'd like it there, but I don't think it'll be on the top of my list.

In terms of Tuscaloosa, I'll have to look up the schools. What are the mountains, lakes and rivers like? I don't know much about the city or AL in general but will look into it some.

Actually as someone who lived in Birmingham AL for almost two years, I would suggest you give AL a look. Most people stereotype AL because it's poor, and in general overall conservative and possibly backwards in the smaller towns. However, the bigger cities, Birmingham, Montgomery, Huntsville are very diverse and great places to live. Cost of living is very reasonable, the winters are mild but full of rain, lots of out door activities, beautiful outdoors, people are nice and again, lots of diversity in the larger cities.

What I did not like about Birmingham was I noticed how segregated the central part of the city was. I lived about 12 minutes from town and while the city is about 70% black, the richest neighborhood is about 92% white. I found that odd, however, there is a lot of poverty in the Black community. Hoover, is about 25 to 30 minutes from town, up and coming, newer and lots of diversity. I am a black woman and the segregation bothered me as I grew up in TX and didn't experience this very much.

Huntsville is a technology Hub, Birmingham is good for healthcare type of work, Montgomery I am not sure, but they are all beautiful, the summers are not too hot. Yes, there are backwards people there, but they are everywhere. State taxes are reasonable, and for 600K you would get a very nice house.

Anyway, just wanted to point out that AL does not necessarily need to be on the bottom of your list after all. Every place has its issues, nothing is perfect, but AL was very pleasantly surprising overall, and I miss it.

[Watty]

I telecommute for work so we have a lot of flexibility.

A huge problem with this is that you can telecommute for your current job but you also need to consider that you might not be able to telecommute for your next job. It would be good to live in an area where you have reasonable job prospects if you need to change jobs. Easy access to a good airport might be important if you have to frequently go into the office for meetings.

Also consider the impact of being in a different time zone. It was a different situation but during a merger I was on the west coast and the new company HQ was on the east coast so there was a three hour difference. That would mean that if there was an 8:00 AM conference call I would have to call in at 5:00 AM my time. Likewise if I had a question about something at 4:00 PM then it would already be 7:00 PM on the east coast so the question would have to wait until the next day. There would also be days when I would start work at 8:30 AM just when people on the east coast were getting ready to go out ot lunch. The problems with the time zones meant that I was often "left out of the loop" on many decisions and that is not good for your career.

If possible I would try to stay within one time zone of where your main group is located.

One other consider is that if you have employer provided healthcare then the plan they use may not have any in-network doctors and hospitals in some city on the other side of the country. You need to check on the details carefully since if you have something like Blue Cross and there is Blue Cross in the city you are moving to that does not automatically mean that you would have in-network doctors there.

One thing I would look at is college towns. They often have a lot going on and you can find them in pretty much any part of the country. Here in Georgia a big college town is Athens Georgia and it would fit a lot of your criteria. It is also only about 1.5 hours from Atlanta which is convenient.

We get along with religious and non-religious people and republicans and democrats.

It is not just in Utah but if you get in the middle a very religious group the people you are dealing with may be nice people, friendly, and good neighbors but in many situations their social life may be centered around their religious group so just with the time limitations it can be difficult to get close to them.

[reisner]

Yes, to Utah if you can take the dryness. Personally I find the traffic and the newness abhorrent in towns that have grown fast like St. George. I'd prefer New Meico, which also has great outdoorsy things to do. Also, the west slope of Colorado, Bend or Eugene OR, the Olympic Peninsula, Bucks County PA, Cape Cod Jackson WY if that's not out of your price range, Portsmouth NH.

[Startingover2019]

Yes, to Utah if you can take the dryness. Personally I find the traffic and the newness abhorrent in towns that have grown fast like St. George. I'd prefer New Meico, which also has great outdoorsy things to do. Also, the west slope of Colorado, Bend or Eugene OR, the Olympic Peninsula, Bucks County PA, Cape Cod Jackson WY if that's not out of your price range, Portsmouth NH.

The OP specifically states he wants short and presumably mild winters. Most of the places you are mentioning have significant winters. Wyoming is pretty frigging cold and windy.

[ThankYouJack]

I telecommute for work so we have a lot of flexibility.

A huge problem with this is that you can telecommute for your current job but you also need to consider that you might not be able to telecommute for your next job. It would be good to live in an area where you have reasonable job prospects if you need to change jobs. Easy access to a good airport might be important if you have to frequently go into the office for meetings.

Also consider the impact of being in a different time zone. It was a different situation but during a merger I was on the west coast and the new company HQ was on the east coast so there was a three hour difference. That would mean that if there was an 8:00 AM conference call I would have to call in at 5:00 AM my time. Likewise if I had a question about something at 4:00 PM then it would already be 7:00 PM on the east coast so the question would have to wait until the next day. There would also be days when I would start work at 8:30 AM just when people on the east coast were getting ready to go out ot lunch. The problems with the time zones meant that I was often "left out of the loop" on many decisions and that is not good for your career.

If possible I would try to stay within one time zone of where your main group is located.

One other consider is that if you have employer provided healthcare then the plan they use may not have any in-network doctors and hospitals in some city on the other side of the country. You need to check on the details carefully since if you have something like Blue Cross and there is Blue Cross in the city you are moving to that does not automatically mean that you would have in-network doctors there.

One thing I would look at is college towns. They often have a lot going on and you can find them in pretty much any part of the country. Here in Georgia a big college town is Athens Georgia and it would fit a lot of your criteria. It is also only about 1.5 hours from Atlanta which is convenient.

We get along with religious and non-religious people and republicans and democrats.

It is not just in Utah but if you get in the middle a very religious group the people you are dealing with may be nice people, friendly, and good neighbors but in many situations their social life may be centered around their religious group so just with the time limitations it can be difficult to get close to them.

Good points, especially about health insurance - I wasn't thinking about that. I've worked on the West Coast before for an East Coast company and actually enjoyed getting up early, but also getting out early. I agree about college towns - I've lived in a couple and really enjoy them.

[TallBoy29er]

We're thinking of Durango, CO. It's also a college town. Tons of outdoor pursuits, including whitewater right downtown. Winters.....I'm not sure what your definition of short is.

[ThankYouJack]

We're thinking of Durango, CO. It's also a college town. Tons of outdoor pursuits, including whitewater right downtown. Winters.....I'm not sure what your definition of short is.

How long is mountain biking season there? I'd like to get at least 9 months. I suppose I could always fatbike it if the trails are covered but seems like winters get pretty cold:

Month: High / Low Rain
January39° / 11°5 days
February46° / 16°4 days
March53° / 23°6 days
April62° / 29°4 days
May71° / 36°4 days
June82° / 43°2 days
July87° / 51°7 days
August84° / 49°7 days
September77° / 41°5 days
October65° / 31°5 days
November52° / 21°4 days
December42° / 14°4 days

[MoonOrb]

If you want short winters and you don't want too much rain and you want something that's not too conservative, that doesn't leave many places, especially if you also want the outdoors right on your doorstep. Much of California, but it's likely too expensive. It can be harder to find good schools as you leave suburbs, so there's a tradeoff there involving cost of living, political climate, and access to outdoors.

I'm assuming in order the most important criteria are:

1. Meets your budgetary restrictions
2. Short winters
3. Quality schools
4. Access to nature
5. Suits your political tastes

Consider:

Asheville, NC
Charlottesville, VA
Chattanooga, TN
Little Rock, AR
Bowling Green, KY

[ThankYouJack]

If you want short winters and you don't want too much rain and you want something that's not too conservative, that doesn't leave many places, especially if you also want the outdoors right on your doorstep. Much of California, but it's likely too expensive. It can be harder to find good schools as you leave suburbs, so there's a tradeoff there involving cost of living, political climate, and access to outdoors.

I'm assuming in order the most important criteria are:

1. Meets your budgetary restrictions
2. Short winters
3. Quality schools
4. Access to nature
5. Suits your political tastes

Consider:

Asheville, NC
Charlottesville, VA
Chattanooga, TN
Little Rock, AR
Bowling Green, KY

Great recommendations. I've been to Asheville and Charlottesville but haven't been to the others.

[Sandtrap]

We're considering moving and aren't sure if we'll move literally down the road or across the country. I telecommute for work so we have a lot of flexibility. Home budget would be ~$600k for a small single family, ideally less but we could spend more if needed.

Top of the list would be something that is great for raising a family, great weather (short winters, not a lot of rain), the great outdoors at your doorstep.

For some reason Utah is piquing my interest. I've only been to Moab and driven through - it seems super remote so I'd want to at least live in one of the larger towns / smaller cities. We get along with religious and non-religious people and republicans and democrats. Although we tend to lean left and I do also like some diversity and living in a bit of a melting pot - which doesn't make me think of Utah.

Anyway, I'm open to suggestions, but especially curious for those who also have flexibility (not tied to location because of work or family), how did you narrow down and decide where you live?

DW and I drove cross country many times over decades considering places to live/retire.
We also stayed for at least a week in a variety of places at different times of the year.

Lean left with diversity and a "melting pot" elimates many areas and places. Although degree of diversity is viewed differently by everyone depending on background, culture, and life exposure. For example: relatively speaking, Hawaii has ethnicities and cultures from everywhere with no real dominant ethnicity and culture beyond an "island culture" which is truly distinctive. Not to everyone's taste. Some are not used to that, try it, and move back to wherever. Others, adapt and embrace the Aloha Spirit and culture of sharing, openess, and global think.

j

[John88]

to meet your requirements in CA I would look east of Sacramento such as Auburn or Cameron Park which is close to the Sierra Nevadas. Higher in price maybe 800s gets you a place in the Santa Cruz mountains such as Boulder Creek or Felton and mt biking in the redwoods.

Btw I've been to Utah and I wouldn't consider it diverse, just my honest experience but I grew up in CA.

[ThankYouJack]

We're considering moving and aren't sure if we'll move literally down the road or across the country. I telecommute for work so we have a lot of flexibility. Home budget would be ~$600k for a small single family, ideally less but we could spend more if needed.

Top of the list would be something that is great for raising a family, great weather (short winters, not a lot of rain), the great outdoors at your doorstep.

For some reason Utah is piquing my interest. I've only been to Moab and driven through - it seems super remote so I'd want to at least live in one of the larger towns / smaller cities. We get along with religious and non-religious people and republicans and democrats. Although we tend to lean left and I do also like some diversity and living in a bit of a melting pot - which doesn't make me think of Utah.

Anyway, I'm open to suggestions, but especially curious for those who also have flexibility (not tied to location because of work or family), how did you narrow down and decide where you live?

DW and I drove cross country many times over decades considering places to live/retire.
We also stayed for at least a week in a variety of places at different times of the year.

Lean left with diversity and a "melting pot" elimates many areas and places. Although degree of diversity is viewed differently by everyone depending on background, culture, and life exposure. For example: relatively speaking, Hawaii has ethnicities and cultures from everywhere with no real dominant ethnicity and culture beyond an "island culture" which is truly distinctive. Not to everyone's taste. Some are not used to that, try it, and move back to wherever. Others, adapt and embrace the Aloha Spirit and culture of sharing, openess, and global think.

j

Thanks, good advice. I've driven cross country twice, traveled a bunch through the US, and lived on the east coast, west coast and Hawaii. Would love to get back out to Hawaii but I've heard that public schools are horrible there and I'm not sure I'd want to raise a family there. And not sure if I'd get island fever after ~6 months. But I could totally see spending winters there in retirement or even better early semi-retirement. I also love Sedona although it's quite small population wise.

[TallBoy29er]

We're thinking of Durango, CO. It's also a college town. Tons of outdoor pursuits, including whitewater right downtown. Winters.....I'm not sure what your definition of short is.

How long is mountain biking season there? I'd like to get at least 9 months. I suppose I could always fatbike it if the trails are covered but seems like winters get pretty cold:

Month: High / Low Rain
January39° / 11°5 days
February46° / 16°4 days
March53° / 23°6 days
April62° / 29°4 days
May71° / 36°4 days
June82° / 43°2 days
July87° / 51°7 days
August84° / 49°7 days
September77° / 41°5 days
October65° / 31°5 days
November52° / 21°4 days
December42° / 14°4 days

Awl man, you're speaking my language. Check the username.
We scouted Durango in August, and loved it. It's on the short list.
It definitely can get hot in Durango, think mid-90's on some days in the summer.
There is mtn biking right outside of town. I rented a bike downtown, and 10 minutes later was grinding on singletrack. I forget the name of the pro mtb rider that designed these, but he lives in Durango. Do you use trailforks (an app)?? Check it out.

I was told the trails have winter accessibility. Probably an on-off thing.

BUT - there is Cortez, CO, that is 45 minutes away. I didn't get to ride Phil's World, but I was told it was worth it. Sounds like awesome winter training grounds.

There's also some fat tire biking nearby. I haven't figured that all out yet totally.

There''s also an annual road ride to beat the Durango-Silverton train from Durango to Silverton. It looks awesome.

I'd enjoy hearing about other places you're considering.

Cheers -

[radiowave]

If NC is on your list, take a look at Chapel Hill and environs (e.g. Hillsboro and north Chatham Co - just south of Chapel Hill). Excellent schools, two great universities UNC and Duke, excellent healthcare, abt 2-2.5 hours to either the beach or mountains. Rare snow, cold in January but tolerable. On a recent trip back, I noticed most of the neighborhoods in north Chatham Co have fiber optic cable to the door.

[TallBoy29er]

If NC is on your list, take a look at Chapel Hill and environs (e.g. Hillsboro and north Chatham Co - just south of Chapel Hill). Excellent schools, two great universities UNC and Duke, excellent healthcare, abt 2-2.5 hours to either the beach or mountains. Rare snow, cold in January but tolerable. On a recent trip back, I noticed most of the neighborhoods in north Chatham Co have fiber optic cable to the door.

And if you are in it for the mtb in NC, then Pisgah is amazing. A good bit of technical, with lots of climbing. Tons of mileage available. And Dupont is close by, with good climbs, and lots of flow trail. Not to mention Reeb Ranch (Dale's Pale Ale sponsored).

The best mtn biking on the east coast, in my humble opinion.

Cities close by: Brevard, Asheville, Hendersonville.

[F150HD]

may be worth cross-referencing w/ states that also don't tax retirement income (not that laws are set in stone, just sayin')

Have not read whole thread.

[MrBobcat]

I live in a small town that is growing like wildfire and generally refuse to tell anyone where we are because we are being overrun at this point. Sadly, and as usual, the baby boomers are swarming and ruining all the good places to live (acknowledging that I am part of the problem).

I always highlight the bad things where I live, even so we still get an inordinate number of retired Californians moving here.

[ThankYouJack]

Awl man, you're speaking my language. Check the username.
We scouted Durango in August, and loved it. It's on the short list.
It definitely can get hot in Durango, think mid-90's on some days in the summer.
There is mtn biking right outside of town. I rented a bike downtown, and 10 minutes later was grinding on singletrack. I forget the name of the pro mtb rider that designed these, but he lives in Durango. Do you use trailforks (an app)?? Check it out.

I was told the trails have winter accessibility. Probably an on-off thing.

BUT - there is Cortez, CO, that is 45 minutes away. I didn't get to ride Phil's World, but I was told it was worth it. Sounds like awesome winter training grounds.

There's also some fat tire biking nearby. I haven't figured that all out yet totally.

There''s also an annual road ride to beat the Durango-Silverton train from Durango to Silverton. It looks awesome.

I'd enjoy hearing about other places you're considering.

Cheers -

First time I road a Tallboy was 7 years ago at Outerbike in Moab. It's an awesome bike.

Yep, I've used Trailforks - great app.

My two favorite places I've ever lived are Santa Barbara and Hawaii as I love water sports too. I have to prioritize family over adventure, but I could see myself moving back out there at least seasonally when my kids get older or go off to college. Of course the downside is that it's super expensive, but we'll see where the finances stand when that time comes.

[TallBoy29er]

Awl man, you're speaking my language. Check the username.
We scouted Durango in August, and loved it. It's on the short list.
It definitely can get hot in Durango, think mid-90's on some days in the summer.
There is mtn biking right outside of town. I rented a bike downtown, and 10 minutes later was grinding on singletrack. I forget the name of the pro mtb rider that designed these, but he lives in Durango. Do you use trailforks (an app)?? Check it out.

I was told the trails have winter accessibility. Probably an on-off thing.

BUT - there is Cortez, CO, that is 45 minutes away. I didn't get to ride Phil's World, but I was told it was worth it. Sounds like awesome winter training grounds.

There's also some fat tire biking nearby. I haven't figured that all out yet totally.

There''s also an annual road ride to beat the Durango-Silverton train from Durango to Silverton. It looks awesome.

I'd enjoy hearing about other places you're considering.

Cheers -

First time I road a Tallboy was 7 years ago at Outerbike in Moab. It's an awesome bike.

Yep, I've used Trailforks - great app.

My two favorite places I've ever lived are Santa Barbara and Hawaii as I love water sports too. I have to prioritize family over adventure, but I could see myself moving back out there at least seasonally when my kids get older or go off to college. Of course the downside is that it's super expensive, but we'll see where the finances stand when that time comes.

We went to Outerbike in Bentonville, AR, last year or the yr before. It was a blast. Rode a Rocky Mtn that I loved. I'm in the market for a bike now. Tallboy maybe. Yet SB 130 maybe. Trek Top Fuel 9.9 looks awesome (I want some long distance rides, and this fits the bill)

Durango realty is high. The rest of life seemed pretty standard though, not high cost.

I love the water as well. Annual surf trips are a thing. SUP is a necessity. Durango has Nighthorse Lake, and Lake Vallecito an hr away. And the river.

Also considering Steamboat Springs. And Crested Butte. CB has the best mtn biking I've ever ridden. Ever. Downside, is that you can only ride it for about 4 months/yr. And it gets cold as hell during the winter.

[ktd]

to meet your requirements in CA I would look east of Sacramento such as Auburn or Cameron Park which is close to the Sierra Nevadas. Higher in price maybe 800s gets you a place in the Santa Cruz mountains such as Boulder Creek or Felton and mt biking in the redwoods.

Btw I've been to Utah and I wouldn't consider it diverse, just my honest experience but I grew up in CA.

+1. I have lived in many places and decided to settle in California. Best weather, beautiful mountains with lot of tall trees not desert mountains, lot of jobs, diversity in people mean diversity in cuisine, and did I say beautiful? 600k will get you a nice house in the Sierras.

[H-Dog]

We are in Salt Lake City, UT and would not recommend. We have been here for close to a decade. It's not very diverse but the bigger problem for me is the air quality. The air quality gets really bad during the winters in the valley.

Maybe if you can live in Park City, UT then that would be nice but $600k might only get you a small condo there.

New Mexico is nice although has it's problems too. Schools are not that great and crime rate is quite bad. Climate is superb and for $600k you can get a large house.

[Gatorbh]

We went through a similar search recently. My best advice would be to get ahold of the book “Blue Zones of Happiness”. As with any resource, not everything was actionable but it did offer some good ideas and a framework to develop your own search criteria. Bike trails were a common thread of favorable locations. I’ve found Google Maps has a feature to highlight bike paths on the map. At a moderate zoom, you can scan great swaths of the country fairly quickly and focus where you find a large collection of the telltale green paths. As was already mentioned, most of the locations we found that had favorable criteria were mid-sized college towns. A more difficult criteria to quantify that is detailed in the book is the ability to develop strong social connections. I would encourage you to give some more thought on what the interests and passions of those that live nearby that you want to spend time with are. Quick internet searches should reveal what types of hobby groups, sports opportunities for the kids, etc are locally available.

[EnjoyIt]

There are many of us Bogeheads who live in Utah. I've lived all over the west, but have been in Utah County (~30 miles south of SLC) for 7yrs and probably am here for good. Diversity; I am Hispanic and am the only member of my family that is LDS, nonetheless almost all of my family has moved here in the last 5yrs (from California, Arizona, Texas, and New York) and they all love it. Great place to raise a family (we are a young family, kids 7 and 4) and plenty of diversity as far as I am concerned (from a Hispanic who grew up non-religious in LA). As far as the outdoors right on your doorstep, there are several dozen awesome hikes <10 miles from my front door. Feel free to ask any direct questions.

Although you are LDS, how do you feel kids who are not LDS would be treated in schools by their peers. I have heard of some ostracizing that may occur by the LDS community which can be detrimental to raising a child there. What do you think?

I ask because we have considered moving south of SLC for a while now but are hesitant because of raising kids there.

[Bernard]

I live in one of the nicest areas on planet Earth, the Ojai Vally in California. I should know, as I've lived in 6 European countries before emigrating to the United States and I have visited 33 countries so far.

When retiring, I'll have to leave California as the cost of living is out of control. I'm hesitant to say this, but we're looking at Asheville, NC. Our daughter lives there, and one of my sisters-in-law (a digital nomad who can live anywhere she wants) lives a couple hours north in the Chapel Hills area. $600K buys you a colonial palace with an 8-car garage on 2 acres, or more. My $690K California home would cost about $250K in Asheville.

There are the Blue Ridge Mountains and the Black Mountains. Absolute unreal there. Even cheaper, yet almost as good are parts of Tennessee. Dave Ramsey lives there, in a castle. The wife and I checked out many places in the US. I personally also like Gainesville, Florida, away from the coast and with actual mountains, not flat like the rest of Florida and Texas. Utah . . . no thank you. I don't want to shovel snow again in my lifetime. Colorado, beautiful but also cold and quite expensive. Idaho? [No way] (my MIL lives in Court d'Alene). Oregon and Washington? Rain, rain, rain, and more rain.
East Coast? Cold and rainy. So here I have given you my personal pearls of wisdom. The rest is up to you.

[Edit by moderator oldcomputerguy]

[22twain]

Gainesville, Florida, away from the coast and with actual mountains

I've driven through the Gainesville area a number of times and don't recall anything that could be even vaguely described as "mountains." I do remember some rolling terrain along US-27 in the vicinity of Clermont, further south (northwest of Orlando).

According to Wikipedia, the highest point in Florida is Britton Hill in the Panhandle, at 345 feet above sea level.

[cookymonster]

I am non-LDS and in SLC and agree with poster above that the air quality is quite bad this time of year. Cost of living is going up with the booming population and those issues may drive me out of the area in the next year.

I like this part of the country for outdoor recreation. Enjoy cycling, hiking, camping, backpacking, etc. An ideal location for me is a metro area 500k+, L-MCOL, moderate climate, low taxes. Spokane, Reno, El Paso, Boise, Albuquerque seem like possibilities, and I'm interested to know if anyone thinks one of those stands out in a particularly good or bad way.

[Grt2bOutdoors]

I live in a small town that is growing like wildfire and generally refuse to tell anyone where we are because we are being overrun at this point. Sadly, and as usual, the baby boomers are swarming and ruining all the good places to live (acknowledging that I am part of the problem).

I'm in a similar situation (but in a medium sized city) and I think that's part of my problem as I'm not a big fan of traffic, crowds, congestion. Seems to be only getting worse in the places that are most desirable to live.

The key to that is zoning laws. Though no one likes to limit improvements sometimes it’s necessary to avoid ruining what made the location desirable in the first instance.

[stoptothink]

There are many of us Bogeheads who live in Utah. I've lived all over the west, but have been in Utah County (~30 miles south of SLC) for 7yrs and probably am here for good. Diversity; I am Hispanic and am the only member of my family that is LDS, nonetheless almost all of my family has moved here in the last 5yrs (from California, Arizona, Texas, and New York) and they all love it. Great place to raise a family (we are a young family, kids 7 and 4) and plenty of diversity as far as I am concerned (from a Hispanic who grew up non-religious in LA). As far as the outdoors right on your doorstep, there are several dozen awesome hikes <10 miles from my front door. Feel free to ask any direct questions.

Although you are LDS, how do you feel kids who are not LDS would be treated in schools by their peers. I have heard of some ostracizing that may occur by the LDS community which can be detrimental to raising a child there. What do you think?

I ask because we have considered moving south of SLC for a while now but are hesitant because of raising kids there.

I have 3 nieces, a nephew, and a 16yr old sister (all not LDS) that live in the area. My stepfather and sister, who are public school teachers, are not LDS and most of my 7yr old daughter's friends aren't either. I've never heard anything suggesting this is an issue, and believe me, my sister would say something as she is very openly anti-LDS. SLC has seen a huge influx of non-LDS people (or people no longer associating with the LDS church) over the past decade https://kutv.com/news/local/losing-thei ... ing-church . I grew up in LA, lived in Houston and Mesa as an adult; IMO, SLC is no different than any other metro area in regards to this. It's similar to any other 1M+ metro area.

FWIW, I've also heard there is some racism issues here or that you shouldn't speak a non-English language in SLC (solely people who have never actually lived in Utah...ie. my brother who is still in LA and refuses to visit). I've lived in places where this is a legitimate issue , I've never experienced it here. Utah has had a massive influx of refugees and some of my family here is undocumented and doesn't speak English. I moved here as a single non-LDS Hispanic man and my experience is that the people here are over-the-top welcoming of those from "outside the bubble".

Yes, the air quality (inversion) can get pretty bad here. I can't say it has ever stopped me from doing anything, but it isn't good.

[EnjoyIt]

There are many of us Bogeheads who live in Utah. I've lived all over the west, but have been in Utah County (~30 miles south of SLC) for 7yrs and probably am here for good. Diversity; I am Hispanic and am the only member of my family that is LDS, nonetheless almost all of my family has moved here in the last 5yrs (from California, Arizona, Texas, and New York) and they all love it. Great place to raise a family (we are a young family, kids 7 and 4) and plenty of diversity as far as I am concerned (from a Hispanic who grew up non-religious in LA). As far as the outdoors right on your doorstep, there are several dozen awesome hikes <10 miles from my front door. Feel free to ask any direct questions.

Although you are LDS, how do you feel kids who are not LDS would be treated in schools by their peers. I have heard of some ostracizing that may occur by the LDS community which can be detrimental to raising a child there. What do you think?

I ask because we have considered moving south of SLC for a while now but are hesitant because of raising kids there.

I have 3 nieces, a nephew, and a 16yr old sister (all not LDS) that live in the area and I have never heard a single thing about this. Most of my daughters (7yr old) friends aren't LDS either. SLC has seen a huge influx of non-LDS people over the past decade https://kutv.com/news/local/losing-thei ... ing-church . I grew up in LA, lived in Houston and Mesa as an adult; IMO, SLC is no different than any other metro area in regards to this.

Thanks for replying. That is valuable insight.

What about the surrounding suburbs which is where we would likely want to move. We have been thinking south of SLC.

[stoptothink]

There are many of us Bogeheads who live in Utah. I've lived all over the west, but have been in Utah County (~30 miles south of SLC) for 7yrs and probably am here for good. Diversity; I am Hispanic and am the only member of my family that is LDS, nonetheless almost all of my family has moved here in the last 5yrs (from California, Arizona, Texas, and New York) and they all love it. Great place to raise a family (we are a young family, kids 7 and 4) and plenty of diversity as far as I am concerned (from a Hispanic who grew up non-religious in LA). As far as the outdoors right on your doorstep, there are several dozen awesome hikes <10 miles from my front door. Feel free to ask any direct questions.

Although you are LDS, how do you feel kids who are not LDS would be treated in schools by their peers. I have heard of some ostracizing that may occur by the LDS community which can be detrimental to raising a child there. What do you think?

I ask because we have considered moving south of SLC for a while now but are hesitant because of raising kids there.

I have 3 nieces, a nephew, and a 16yr old sister (all not LDS) that live in the area and I have never heard a single thing about this. Most of my daughters (7yr old) friends aren't LDS either. SLC has seen a huge influx of non-LDS people over the past decade https://kutv.com/news/local/losing-thei ... ing-church . I grew up in LA, lived in Houston and Mesa as an adult; IMO, SLC is no different than any other metro area in regards to this.

Thanks for replying. That is valuable insight.

What about the surrounding suburbs which is where we would likely want to move. We have been thinking south of SLC.

South Jordan, Herriman, Draper, Sandy, Highland, Lehi, etc. are all nice. Of course, there are "less nice" areas like South SLC and West Valley, and parts of Taylorsville and Murray. I'm in Pleasant Grove, about 35 miles south of SLC. It's like Mayberry, except there is an insane amount of condo/townhome construction because of the need for housing for all the new tech workers. Having grown up in East LA and lived in some pretty seedy areas of Houston, it's surreal sometimes living in one of the safest cities in one of the safest states.

My family members live in downtown SLC, Draper, Provo, Saratoga Springs, Eagle Mountain, and Springville.

Utah has its issues - COL is skyrocketing due to growing tech sector, air quality, traffic can be bad for anybody with an I-15 commute, subpar public transportation (but improving) - but many of the concerns my siblings and I experienced as kids (race riots, gang problems, overall safety, schools where >50% don't graduate) just aren't a thing here. In a vacuum (without all our family having moved close in the last few years) we probably wouldn't be tied down to this area, but there are a lot of great things about it.

[Sandtrap]

DW and I drove cross country many times over decades considering places to live/retire.
We also stayed for at least a week in a variety of places at different times of the year.

Lean left with diversity and a "melting pot" elimates many areas and places. Although degree of diversity is viewed differently by everyone depending on background, culture, and life exposure. For example: relatively speaking, Hawaii has ethnicities and cultures from everywhere with no real dominant ethnicity and culture beyond an "island culture" which is truly distinctive. Not to everyone's taste. Some are not used to that, try it, and move back to wherever. Others, adapt and embrace the Aloha Spirit and culture of sharing, openess, and global think.

j

Thanks, good advice. I've driven cross country twice, traveled a bunch through the US, and lived on the east coast, west coast and Hawaii. Would love to get back out to Hawaii but I've heard that public schools are horrible there and I'm not sure I'd want to raise a family there. And not sure if I'd get island fever after ~6 months. But I could totally see spending winters there in retirement or even better early semi-retirement. I also love Sedona although it's quite small population wise.

You're right.
Hawaii's public schools as a median can be years short of elsewhere. Private schools are popular there and expensive. And, depending on area, the peer groups can get "interesting".
And, yes, "rock fever" is a real thing. AKA: gridlock fever. Unavoidable when there's nearly 1 million people on the habitable areas of the Island of Oahu. And, the cost of living is horrendous. Having a second residence there is costly due to travel, property expenses, etc.

Sedona is a small area, very dense considering other nearby areas, and a bit "touristy" as it is a destination place to visit. Winters can be cold. Major stores - Home Depot - Walmart, etc, are nil.

DW and I ended up in Prescott, Arizona. Thriving, growing, tri-city area, total population around 150k+ or so. But, still, a small town feel. Schools are good. Cost of living (and pay) is low. Raising a family is great (think. . Mayberry) However, "Left Leaning"/diversity/and "melting pot" . . might not apply for you there.

Aloha
j

[Startingover2019]

If you want short winters and you don't want too much rain and you want something that's not too conservative, that doesn't leave many places, especially if you also want the outdoors right on your doorstep. Much of California, but it's likely too expensive. It can be harder to find good schools as you leave suburbs, so there's a tradeoff there involving cost of living, political climate, and access to outdoors.

I'm assuming in order the most important criteria are:

1. Meets your budgetary restrictions
2. Short winters
3. Quality schools
4. Access to nature
5. Suits your political tastes

Consider:

Asheville, NC
Charlottesville, VA
Chattanooga, TN
Little Rock, AR
Bowling Green, KY

Great recommendations. I've been to Asheville and Charlottesville but haven't been to the others.

Have you been there in the winters though? Doubt you will like it there during that time.

[Startingover2019]

I am non-LDS and in SLC and agree with poster above that the air quality is quite bad this time of year. Cost of living is going up with the booming population and those issues may drive me out of the area in the next year.

I like this part of the country for outdoor recreation. Enjoy cycling, hiking, camping, backpacking, etc. An ideal location for me is a metro area 500k+, L-MCOL, moderate climate, low taxes. Spokane, Reno, El Paso, Boise, Albuquerque seem like possibilities, and I'm interested to know if anyone thinks one of those stands out in a particularly good or bad way.

Lived in Albuquerque for four years. I have lived in a lot of places. Out of all the places, ABQ has the best weather year round, hands down. Never realized it while I was there but honestly, it was hands down the best year round weather. I thought the winters were cold since I had never experienced anything colder at that time, but looking back now, the winters were mild, short and always sunny. Rarely snow on the ground and it melted quickly. Mountains not far away. Good skiing about than two hours away if you like that. Summers not too hot, but of course dry. But not as dry as Las Vegas or Phoenix and certainly not nearly as hot. Good cost of living. Beautiful scenery, lots of outdoor stuff to do. Only bad thing I remember, is that it is a little depressed economically. If it wasn't the bad memories of residency and family being in TX I would consider living there again.

[Startingover2019]

Gainesville, Florida, away from the coast and with actual mountains

I've driven through the Gainesville area a number of times and don't recall anything that could be even vaguely described as "mountains." I do remember some rolling terrain along US-27 in the vicinity of Clermont, further south (northwest of Orlando).

According to Wikipedia, the highest point in Florida is Britton Hill in the Panhandle, at 345 feet above sea level.

OMG, I was thinking the same thing. I even shot my friend an email who lives there wondering the same thing. Mountains? In FL? Big hills maybe?