What tech wiring in new build house?

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KlangFool
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by KlangFool »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:08 pm
unclescrooge wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:59 pm With a 30 radius, a single router in the middle of your house should suffice. Or maybe 3 mesh routers. How big is your house? :shock:
It's not always about size :D
Our house has many exterior and interior walls made of fieldstone, in some locations up to 3' thick. The only thing fieldstone insulates against is wifi signals. :D
There is one wall with 12db of losses in my brother-in-law house. We need to put one wifi router on each side of the wall to fix the problem.

KlangFool
zlandar
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by zlandar »

Cat 6 and coax.

Wireless can’t power POE devices like a security camera. Wired Is more reliable than wireless and allows easy placement of access points. Very convenient to have the wiring in place.
KlangFool
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by KlangFool »

KlangFool wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:16 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:08 pm
unclescrooge wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:59 pm With a 30 radius, a single router in the middle of your house should suffice. Or maybe 3 mesh routers. How big is your house? :shock:
It's not always about size :D
Our house has many exterior and interior walls made of fieldstone, in some locations up to 3' thick. The only thing fieldstone insulates against is wifi signals. :D
There is one wall with 12db of losses in my brother-in-law house. We need to put one wifi router on each side of the wall to fix the problem.

KlangFool
FYI. That wall is normal drywall with a new hardwood entertainment center. As a Wireless SME, I would never think and believe that it is 12db. I measured it. That drywall with the entertainment center is equivalent to a concrete wall in terms of wireless attenuation.

KlangFool
mpnret
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by mpnret »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:08 pm
unclescrooge wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:59 pm With a 30 radius, a single router in the middle of your house should suffice. Or maybe 3 mesh routers. How big is your house? :shock:
It's not always about size :D
Our house has many exterior and interior walls made of fieldstone, in some locations up to 3' thick. The only thing fieldstone insulates against is wifi signals. :D
My house has foil backed insulation under the siding. It's not all that thick but the foil kills my wi-fi outside. I just use a mesh routers with a wired backhaul on the outdoor one.
michaelingp
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by michaelingp »

My ideal house would be designed like an office building. No wire necessary at first, but all the walls and floors designed so that wire can be easily fished anywhere. When I worked, they could basically put any kind of outlet anywhere very easily (it helps to have drop ceilings). My current house pretty much meets that ideal, since it's built over a crawl space so running wire into any wall (and even to the second floor) requires very little effort. If I had an attic, and a big conduit from the crawl to the attic (as some have proposed) it would be even easier.

My daughter's new house was built in late 1990's. They ran coax and speaker wire almost everywhere. It probably sounded like a good idea, but my daughter didn't want TV's exactly where the previous owner did, and the speaker wire is a foreign concept for people under 40. Plus they left zero documentation. As a result, there is now unsightly coax running all along the baseboards and through walls to the new TV placements. The design of the house makes it almost impossible to fish wire where you need it without cutting pretty big holes in the (finished) basement ceiling. The unfinished attic is a nightmare of trusses and insulation, so it's not fun to fish wires from up there, plus no easy way to get them to the attic in the first place (other than on the outside of the house).

So, my advice would be to not worry too much about future proofing the wiring, but make it really easy to fish wire where you need it. Note that just putting in conduit doesn't necessarily do this, since you still need to get from the conduit to the outlet box, and every owner (or even room occupant) may want things in different places.

On reflection, I seem to remember once seeing a baseboard system designed for this. The baseboard was essentially a raceway, and you installed boxes in the baseboard as well.
MindBogler
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by MindBogler »

In our build 3 years ago this is what we did:

1. Cat6A drop in every bedroom, office and bonus room.
2. Cat6A to the garage near the cable company point of presence.
3. RG6 in each room with a TV.
4. Attic-mounted antenna for OTA channels via RG6 in #3.
5. Cat6A to two ceiling locations (for Access Points)
6. Home run all cat 6a and RG6 to a central location in the house.
7. The router and switch both live in the central hub (this is in a closet).

In the end, we only ended up using a single ceiling mount point for WiFi. The coverage of an access point on a ceiling is so much better than the typical locations, that we didn't need the 2nd one. A year after we moved in, a local company began providing Fiber-to-the-Premises and we used the Cat6A in #2 to support that. It is nice to have whole house OTA support in any room. The only thing I would have done differently given a second chance is to add some cable runs for Power over Ethernet (POE) video cameras. I know you can do these via WiFi but POE is so much more convenient and reliable. It is very cheap and easy to run cable when the house is a shell.
Dilbydog
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by Dilbydog »

radiowave wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:35 am
boomer_techie wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:24 am
radiowave wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:32 pm Many if not most of the current home automation devices also need a neutral (white) wire along with ground.
The latest electrical code requires a neutral in each box - for precisely this reason.
Is that national code or local?
2017 NEC requires a neutral at each box... unsure if this was covered in previous versions. As for the application, it depends on when your locality adopts the most current NEC. For example my home state implements the most current NEC (2) years after its publication. So the 2017 NEC wasn’t adopted until 2019.
Dilbydog
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by Dilbydog »

If it was my home:
1. I’d run a CAT 6 to every room, along with a spare 3/4 conduit in every room that stubs up into the attic. No need for a conduit home run so long as your attic is accessible.
2. As other have mentioned a CAT6 for POE for security cameras if that’s something you’d like to have.
3. Speaker wire for Dolby Atmos in the ceiling of your living room, along with provisions for surround sound, again if that’s your thing.
4. I use UniFi AP’s for my wireless. A single gang box in the ceiling in several areas with CAT6. It was a pain for me to do this after the fact, trying to make certain the AP aligned with existing light fixtures. A clean line or grid of recessed ceiling lights is easily spoiled by a misplaced AP.
5. I have whole house audio setup, and I wish the builder would have run a cat 5 (or 6) cable along each speaker wire run for independent room volume control. (Home was built in 2004, and CAT cable with speaker wire was in its infancy. Again think future proof, or at least a 20 year horizon)
6. I’d add an empty conduit run outside of the house in several areas for landscape lighting or if you ever want to run power to something in the future.
radiowave
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by radiowave »

I didn't see anything above about prewiring for home security, OP might consider hardwire to doors and windows and a few extra for future use in home security system.
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liberty53
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by liberty53 »

This thread cracks me up.....

I didn't see anybody mention running some fiber between floors - what it you want to run a server in your basement and use 10G or 100G ethernet?

If you are going to run high quality copper put some fiber in there as well!
ARoseByAnyOtherName
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by ARoseByAnyOtherName »

liberty53 wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:29 pm This thread cracks me up.....

I didn't see anybody mention running some fiber between floors - what it you want to run a server in your basement and use 10G or 100G ethernet?

If you are going to run high quality copper put some fiber in there as well!
Actually we had that discussion in the middle of the second page.

10G ethernet can run over copper. Installing fiber is a big headache and massive overkill for any and every reasonable home use case. I mean if you have a sever if your basement and need even 1 Gbps for it, what in the world is that server doing?

Or are you joking and I am just bad at detecting the joke?
ARoseByAnyOtherName
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by ARoseByAnyOtherName »

MindBogler wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:19 pm In the end, we only ended up using a single ceiling mount point for WiFi. The coverage of an access point on a ceiling is so much better than the typical locations, that we didn't need the 2nd one.
Be careful as not all APs work best ceiling-mounted. For example, the mounting guide for Eero hardware (which I use) states:
"Aim high. eeros radiate their signal more upwards than downwards, but mostly along the plane they’re placed on. It’s best to place your eeros at a height halfway between the floor and the ceiling, not on the ground."

So if you want to do this be sure to get APs that work optimally on the ceiling. My guess is you'll probably need enterprise gear to properly support this use case.
liberty53
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by liberty53 »

ARoseByAnyOtherName wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:26 pm
liberty53 wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:29 pm This thread cracks me up.....

I didn't see anybody mention running some fiber between floors - what it you want to run a server in your basement and use 10G or 100G ethernet?

If you are going to run high quality copper put some fiber in there as well!
Actually we had that discussion in the middle of the second page.

10G ethernet can run over copper. Installing fiber is a big headache and massive overkill for any and every reasonable home use case. I mean if you have a sever if your basement and need even 1 Gbps for it, what in the world is that server doing?

Or are you joking and I am just bad at detecting the joke?
Yeah I'm mostly kidding. But - I just saw a 12 port 10G un-managed switch for $350 on one of those deal sites, so the cost per port is really coming down.
ARoseByAnyOtherName
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by ARoseByAnyOtherName »

liberty53 wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:03 pm
ARoseByAnyOtherName wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:26 pm
liberty53 wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:29 pm This thread cracks me up.....

I didn't see anybody mention running some fiber between floors - what it you want to run a server in your basement and use 10G or 100G ethernet?

If you are going to run high quality copper put some fiber in there as well!
Actually we had that discussion in the middle of the second page.

10G ethernet can run over copper. Installing fiber is a big headache and massive overkill for any and every reasonable home use case. I mean if you have a sever if your basement and need even 1 Gbps for it, what in the world is that server doing?

Or are you joking and I am just bad at detecting the joke?
Yeah I'm mostly kidding.
Rock on :sharebeer
MindBogler
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by MindBogler »

ARoseByAnyOtherName wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:32 pm So if you want to do this be sure to get APs that work optimally on the ceiling. My guess is you'll probably need enterprise gear to properly support this use case.
This is true. I installed omni-directional access points from Ubiquiti. They are low-profile and designed for ceiling mount use.
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RustyShackleford
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by RustyShackleford »

Check into these things called "keystone jacks": https://www.computercablestore.com/Keystone-Jacks-22 (better prices here: https://www.monoprice.com/search/index?keyword=keystone). They go into regular electrical boxes, and you can configure whatever you want (cat6, coax, phone, something not yet invented, etc). You can buy yokes that fit several of them into one "gang" (electrical box "space"), and then use Decora cover plates (the big rectangular opening like GFCI outlets fit in), or buy special cover plates that fit the jacks directly.

Put in a two-gang box in various places you imagine you will want wiring, and run some conduit from the box to the crawlspace. Then you can add (or subtract) various wirings later.
Saving$
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by Saving$ »

corn18 wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:07 am
8foot7 wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:00 am
corn18 wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:57 am
KlangFool wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:11 am OP,

For my day job, I design wireless networks. For my own house, I put 2 Cat6 and 2 coax outlets on every wall of the living room. And, I put 2 cat6 and 2 coax outlets in every bedroom. One of my peers run conduits from every room of his house to the cellar. He can run any cable through the conduit. We are all wireless experts.

The new generation of WiFi will require even more cables.

KlangFool
I like the 2 x Cat6 but why add the coax?
Coax is cheap, cheap and works with satellite as well as catv
Good point. I think that is the best answer. It's a ranch with a partially finished basement so I think we will put these in the 4 bedrooms, den, study and basement rec room. Wonder how much that will cost?
Don't. Instead, have them install 1" conduit/smurf tube from a box at the location in each room at which you want connectivity to a central distribution panel (in basement, mech room, data closet, etc). This will give you the option to run whatever type of wire is required.
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RustyShackleford
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by RustyShackleford »

Saving$ wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:35 pm Don't. Instead, have them install 1" conduit/smurf tube from a box at the location in each room at which you want connectivity to a central distribution panel (in basement, mech room, data closet, etc). This will give you the option to run whatever type of wire is required.
Or just into the crawlspace, as I describe a few posts up. And yes, smurf-tube is what I meant (https://www.lowes.com/pd/CARLON-Common- ... 1000341007). No dangerous voltages involved, so you don't need real conduit, and it's fine to have loose wire in the crawlspace.
TxInjun
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by TxInjun »

To add to the helpful responses: add a conduit for the cabling from a wall mount flat panel TV (about the mounting height) to wherever your AV equipment will be. You can snake HDMI, Ethernet and power cables.

About 5 years ago, we were first buyers of a rebuilt house, the buildier had put in telephone (rj11) connectors - but luckily he had used 4-pair cat-5. I was pleasantly surprised (and massively relieved) that replacing the connectors with rj-45 (using all 4 pairs) gave me 1Gbit connectivity in all critical palaces - entertainment center, basement and office. Previously I had WiFi to my NAS, but now I could stream a 1k HD movie without any issues. WiFi is great but it’s unpredictable: wired is most definitely reliable.

TxIn
fogalog
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by fogalog »

KlangFool wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:13 pm
KlangFool wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:16 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:08 pm
unclescrooge wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:59 pm With a 30 radius, a single router in the middle of your house should suffice. Or maybe 3 mesh routers. How big is your house? :shock:
It's not always about size :D
Our house has many exterior and interior walls made of fieldstone, in some locations up to 3' thick. The only thing fieldstone insulates against is wifi signals. :D
There is one wall with 12db of losses in my brother-in-law house. We need to put one wifi router on each side of the wall to fix the problem.

KlangFool
FYI. That wall is normal drywall with a new hardwood entertainment center. As a Wireless SME, I would never think and believe that it is 12db. I measured it. That drywall with the entertainment center is equivalent to a concrete wall in terms of wireless attenuation.

KlangFool
That's really interesting. Any chance that wall uses QuietRock or something similar? (I ask because you mention that it has an entertainment centre on the other side).
krafty81
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by krafty81 »

+1 for USB outlets. Anytime I replace an electrical outlet, I ensure it is one with USB connectors as part of it. Get's rid of all those little charging blocks and we/kids/guests keep our stuff charged up anywhere. Pre-route HDMI everywhere you think you might need it to connect video/audio components.
KlangFool
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by KlangFool »

fogalog wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:41 pm
KlangFool wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:13 pm
KlangFool wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:16 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:08 pm
unclescrooge wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:59 pm With a 30 radius, a single router in the middle of your house should suffice. Or maybe 3 mesh routers. How big is your house? :shock:
It's not always about size :D
Our house has many exterior and interior walls made of fieldstone, in some locations up to 3' thick. The only thing fieldstone insulates against is wifi signals. :D
There is one wall with 12db of losses in my brother-in-law house. We need to put one wifi router on each side of the wall to fix the problem.

KlangFool
FYI. That wall is normal drywall with a new hardwood entertainment center. As a Wireless SME, I would never think and believe that it is 12db. I measured it. That drywall with the entertainment center is equivalent to a concrete wall in terms of wireless attenuation.

KlangFool
That's really interesting. Any chance that wall uses QuietRock or something similar? (I ask because you mention that it has an entertainment centre on the other side).
It was the new hardwood entertainment center that caused the loss. Previously before the new entertainment center, the WiFi signal could go through the wall easily.

KlangFool
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

fogalog wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:41 pm
KlangFool wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:13 pm
KlangFool wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:16 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:08 pm
unclescrooge wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:59 pm With a 30 radius, a single router in the middle of your house should suffice. Or maybe 3 mesh routers. How big is your house? :shock:
It's not always about size :D
Our house has many exterior and interior walls made of fieldstone, in some locations up to 3' thick. The only thing fieldstone insulates against is wifi signals. :D
There is one wall with 12db of losses in my brother-in-law house. We need to put one wifi router on each side of the wall to fix the problem.

KlangFool
FYI. That wall is normal drywall with a new hardwood entertainment center. As a Wireless SME, I would never think and believe that it is 12db. I measured it. That drywall with the entertainment center is equivalent to a concrete wall in terms of wireless attenuation.

KlangFool
That's really interesting. Any chance that wall uses QuietRock or something similar? (I ask because you mention that it has an entertainment centre on the other side).
In my downstairs renovation, we used Roxul in the wall cavity, resilient channels, and two layers of some kind of Sheetrock with Greenglue between them, and then some other stuff. The fieldstone and this combine to make a Faraday cage :D
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Northern Flicker
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by Northern Flicker »

In-wall or in-ceiling speakers wired to binding posts on the wall where an amp will go? Place for a subwoofer and connections for it to wall-mounted binding posts?
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serg
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Re: What tech wiring in new build house?

Post by serg »

MindBogler wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:19 pm In our build 3 years ago this is what we did:

1. Cat6A drop in every bedroom, office and bonus room.
2. Cat6A to the garage near the cable company point of presence.
3. RG6 in each room with a TV.
4. Attic-mounted antenna for OTA channels via RG6 in #3.
5. Cat6A to two ceiling locations (for Access Points)
6. Home run all cat 6a and RG6 to a central location in the house.
7. The router and switch both live in the central hub (this is in a closet).
I am finishing building a house and I did exact the same except.

Ran conduit to the utility pole from garage. This will remove internet company box outside of the house. ( the internet company will pull a cable to my garage and I have RG6 that runs to the closet.)
Ran 2 Cat6 Cables to every corner of the house for security cameras. I can install 2 90 degree cameras vs 1 180 degree that is much more expensive.
Ran all cables is 3/4" smurf tube, the smurf tube comes out 1 foot above insulation.. (This is overkill but future proofing.)
Ran conduit and 2 CAT6 to the shop.

Serg
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