Camera Question

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Random Musings
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Camera Question

Post by Random Musings » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:44 pm

Want to get a relatively inexpensive camera, but still a decent camera for my daughter. I'm looking at the Canon Power Shot SX620 which seems to have a solid optical zoom. Seems like a good entry point camera.

Also, there seem to be lots of reviews for B&H as a camera dealer, does anyone have experience with them. I noticed some interesting pricing with other NY based retailers, but when reviewing there ratings, lots of comments about gray market products. B&H states they are an authorized dealer for Canon and they have lots of favorable reviews.

Would appreciate everyone's thoughts. The pricing point is at the top of her range, as it will be a gift from a relative. So, a $300 camera is a no go.

Thankks.

RM
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Marylander1
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Re: Camera Question

Post by Marylander1 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:57 pm

Random Musings wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:44 pm
Also, there seem to be lots of reviews for B&H as a camera dealer, does anyone have experience with them. I noticed some interesting pricing with other NY based retailers, but when reviewing there ratings, lots of comments about gray market products. B&H states they are an authorized dealer for Canon and they have lots of favorable reviews.
B&H is an extremely reputable dealer. For equipment that's risky to buy from Amazon due to counterfeits—including memory cards and batteries—I routinely purchase from B&H instead as a more reliable source.

They sell clearly labeled grey market camera equipment, which most purchasers should avoid unless they understand the impact on manufacturer warrantees.

Marylander1

Teague
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Re: Camera Question

Post by Teague » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:03 pm

B&H is rock solid. I've spent several thousand with them over the last 20+ years. Adorama is great too. Expect first-rate service from either.

Beware of some other NY sellers - gray market goods and other tricks, like no battery, no charger, no warranty card, and other issues.
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Re: Camera Question

Post by Random Musings » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:06 pm

Marylander1 wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:57 pm
Random Musings wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:44 pm
Also, there seem to be lots of reviews for B&H as a camera dealer, does anyone have experience with them. I noticed some interesting pricing with other NY based retailers, but when reviewing there ratings, lots of comments about gray market products. B&H states they are an authorized dealer for Canon and they have lots of favorable reviews.
B&H is an extremely reputable dealer. For equipment that's risky to buy from Amazon due to counterfeits—including memory cards and batteries—I routinely purchase from B&H instead as a more reliable source.

They sell clearly labeled grey market camera equipment, which most purchasers should avoid unless they understand the impact on manufacturer warrantees.

Marylander1
Marylander, thank you. When you say "they" in your last paragraph, you are referring to some of the dealers in the Amazon arena? From what I saw, some of those dealers appear questionable on the Amazon site.

RM
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Re: Camera Question

Post by Random Musings » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:37 pm

Teague wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:03 pm
B&H is rock solid. I've spent several thousand with them over the last 20+ years. Adorama is great too. Expect first-rate service from either.

Beware of some other NY sellers - gray market goods and other tricks, like no battery, no charger, no warranty card, and other issues.
Teague, Thanks. I'll do some comparatives between the two. At least my concerns about what dealers to use has been removed.

RM
I figure the odds be fifty-fifty I just might have something to say. FZ

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Watty
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Re: Camera Question

Post by Watty » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:37 pm

I could not find a link but a while back someone that lived in New York city went around taking pictures of the addresses of the discount stores and posted them on the web. Just the appearance of them was eye opening since many of them were located in places like dumpy apartment buildings in a bad part of town.

Many of them do things like strip the camera of things like the expensive battery and then try to call you and sell you upgrades and if you do not buy them then they will be mysteriously out of stock and cancel your order that was at what seemed like a great price. They have also been known to ship you returned or used equipment.

B&H has a really good reputation and unless you get lucky and get some special Black Friday doorbuster you are unlikely to beat their price by more than a few dollars on a legitimate deal.

When you buy new non-gray market equipment many credit cards will also double your manufacturer's warranty and maybe give some protection in case the camera is dropped.

When looking at ads you also have to be very careful since and ad might say something like "US Warranty" when it is not a manufacture warranty but just some third party camera repair shop. A big problem with that is even if they try to fix a camera they may not have the special tools or access to the parts to fix a problem.

For that level camera you could also look at Best Buy, Costco, Target, Walmart, etc.
Random Musings wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:44 pm
The pricing point is at the top of her range, as it will be a gift from a relative. So, a $300 camera is a no go.
One other option to consider is that Canon sells refurbished cameras on their website and they provide a one year Canon warranty. I have bought several higher level cameras and lenses from them and they always looked like new and I never had any problems with them.

https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/cata ... d&pageSize:&

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Re: Camera Question

Post by Random Musings » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:45 pm

Watty wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:37 pm
I could not find a link but a while back someone that lived in New York city went around taking pictures of the addresses of the discount stores and posted them on the web. Just the appearance of them was eye opening since many of them were located in places like dumpy apartment buildings in a bad part of town.

Many of them do things like strip the camera of things like the expensive battery and then try to call you and sell you upgrades and if you do not buy them then they will be mysteriously out of stock and cancel your order that was at what seemed like a great price. They have also been known to ship you returned or used equipment.

B&H has a really good reputation and unless you get lucky and get some special Black Friday doorbuster you are unlikely to beat their price by more than a few dollars on a legitimate deal.

When you buy new non-gray market equipment many credit cards will also double your manufacturer's warranty and maybe give some protection in case the camera is dropped.

When looking at ads you also have to be very careful since and ad might say something like "US Warranty" when it is not a manufacture warranty but just some third party camera repair shop. A big problem with that is even if they try to fix a camera they may not have the special tools or access to the parts to fix a problem.

For that level camera you could also look at Best Buy, Costco, Target, Walmart, etc.
Random Musings wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:44 pm
The pricing point is at the top of her range, as it will be a gift from a relative. So, a $300 camera is a no go.
One other option to consider is that Canon sells refurbished cameras on their website and they provide a one year Canon warranty. I have bought several higher level cameras and lenses from them and they always looked like new and I never had any problems with them.

https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/cata ... d&pageSize:&
Thanks, WTty. With respect to warranty, I believe my Costco Visa card extends the warranty another 2 years. I will also take a look at refurbished, I've done that with Apple before with no problems.

RM
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GUtiger
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Re: Camera Question

Post by GUtiger » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:50 pm

The only way to know if this is a reasonable camera for her is to know what the purpose of the camera is. Does she plan to take a few snapshots during travel? Is she starting to get into photography? Does she plan to shoot video?

The major question to answer is whether she can accomplish her goals using the camera on her smartphone as that is truly adequate for most people these days.

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Re: Camera Question

Post by Random Musings » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:10 am

GUtiger wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:50 pm
The only way to know if this is a reasonable camera for her is to know what the purpose of the camera is. Does she plan to take a few snapshots during travel? Is she starting to get into photography? Does she plan to shoot video?

The major question to answer is whether she can accomplish her goals using the camera on her smartphone as that is truly adequate for most people these days.
She is interested in photography, both outdoor nature shots as well as people. Has used my camera on trips before and takes decent pictures. A good optical zoom, IMHO, will come in handy. My 8x optical is a little long in the tooth and a 20x optical opens up the opportunity for better nature shots. She is young, 10, but really into tech. Has no smartphone yet and won't for a few more years, at least. I do agree that many phones take good pictures, my Pixel 3a works well, but my camera still provides higher quality shots.

RM
I figure the odds be fifty-fifty I just might have something to say. FZ

HereToLearn
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Re: Camera Question

Post by HereToLearn » Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:32 am

Another vote for B&H. I have purchased film SLR & DSLRs from them for 25 years. Have also read that Adorama is very reputable, but I have not been to their store or purchased anything online.

My local Costco is only offering a few cameras in store this holiday season. Very limited selection.

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Re: Camera Question

Post by midareff » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:26 am

I have used both B&H and Adorama quite a few times in the last decade +. Both are extremely reliable.

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Re: Camera Question

Post by 22twain » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:58 am

Random Musings wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:06 pm
Marylander1 wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:57 pm
B&H is an extremely reputable dealer. For equipment that's risky to buy from Amazon due to counterfeits—including memory cards and batteries—I routinely purchase from B&H instead as a more reliable source.

They sell clearly labeled grey market camera equipment, which most purchasers should avoid unless they understand the impact on manufacturer warrantees.

Marylander1
Marylander, thank you. When you say "they" in your last paragraph, you are referring to some of the dealers in the Amazon arena? From what I saw, some of those dealers appear questionable on the Amazon site.
He's referring to B&H. They do sell some grey-market equipment (i.e. not imported through the manufacturer's official channels), but they label it clearly as such. I don't remember their exact wording because I haven't looked at their web site in several years.
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Re: Camera Question

Post by Dottie57 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:11 am

Watty wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:37 pm
I could not find a link but a while back someone that lived in New York city went around taking pictures of the addresses of the discount stores and posted them on the web. Just the appearance of them was eye opening since many of them were located in places like dumpy apartment buildings in a bad part of town.

Many of them do things like strip the camera of things like the expensive battery and then try to call you and sell you upgrades and if you do not buy them then they will be mysteriously out of stock and cancel your order that was at what seemed like a great price. They have also been known to ship you returned or used equipment.

B&H has a really good reputation and unless you get lucky and get some special Black Friday doorbuster you are unlikely to beat their price by more than a few dollars on a legitimate deal.

When you buy new non-gray market equipment many credit cards will also double your manufacturer's warranty and maybe give some protection in case the camera is dropped.

When looking at ads you also have to be very careful since and ad might say something like "US Warranty" when it is not a manufacture warranty but just some third party camera repair shop. A big problem with that is even if they try to fix a camera they may not have the special tools or access to the parts to fix a problem.

For that level camera you could also look at Best Buy, Costco, Target, Walmart, etc.
Random Musings wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:44 pm
The pricing point is at the top of her range, as it will be a gift from a relative. So, a $300 camera is a no go.
One other option to consider is that Canon sells refurbished cameras on their website and they provide a one year Canon warranty. I have bought several higher level cameras and lenses from them and they always looked like new and I never had any problems with them.

https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/cata ... d&pageSize:&
The refurbished camera I bought from Canon looked and acts like new. Take a look there too.

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Re: Camera Question

Post by bob60014 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:51 am

B&H is top notch. You didn't indicate but I suggest that you get her involved in the process. Take her to a store(s) that have a variety of cameras and let her get the feel of them, where the controls are, how it fits in her hands, etc., and find something she can work with. At her age, just as it is when we get older, if it doesn't fit correctly we won't wear it. In this case if it doesn't fit and feel comfortable, her interest in a rewarding hobby can quickly wane.

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snackdog
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Re: Camera Question

Post by snackdog » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:35 am

Have you considered an iphone11 pro? It surpasses most point and shoot cameras and infringes on DSlR territory.

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Re: Camera Question

Post by RickBoglehead » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:37 am

Anyone can claim on a website to be an authorized dealer. Gray market is huge in photography equipment. Check claims on manufacturers websites. Gray market has no manufacturer's warranty and therefore no additional 2 years from a credit card.

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/port ... ed-dealers
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Re: Camera Question

Post by Sandtrap » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:56 am

Random Musings wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:44 pm
Want to get a relatively inexpensive camera, but still a decent camera for my daughter. I'm looking at the Canon Power Shot SX620 which seems to have a solid optical zoom. Seems like a good entry point camera.

Also, there seem to be lots of reviews for B&H as a camera dealer, does anyone have experience with them. I noticed some interesting pricing with other NY based retailers, but when reviewing there ratings, lots of comments about gray market products. B&H states they are an authorized dealer for Canon and they have lots of favorable reviews.

Would appreciate everyone's thoughts. The pricing point is at the top of her range, as it will be a gift from a relative. So, a $300 camera is a no go.

Thankks.

RM
Yes.
There are many choices and this is a good one.
Also consider the equiv. camera in Nikon.

Like cell phones, there's something for everyone and their needs and budgets.
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Re: Camera Question

Post by Shallowpockets » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:29 am

You want to get an entry level camera for your daughter. Does she have a smartphone? There is your camera.
Don’t over think this. Seems that this forum propagates overthinking of purchases and, indeed, many choices that one comes up against in life.
It is an entry level camera. How far wrong do you think you might go in this purchase?
Does she even want one? If so, maybe she has one in mind. You can just buy that one. Or, if want to keep it a secret, you could give her a card saying you will buy the camera she wants.
There are so many choices out there. More choices are usually paralyzing to many people.
Seeking camera choices here is going to make your head spin.

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Watty
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Re: Camera Question

Post by Watty » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:31 am

Random Musings wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:10 am
She is young, 10, but really into tech.
At that age one possible issue is that some of the low cost super-zooms are not very sturdy. When they are all the way zoomed out the lens looks very vulnerable. Damage would likely not be covered by a warranty.
Random Musings wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:10 am
My 8x optical is a little long in the tooth and a 20x optical opens up the opportunity for better nature shots.


One option to consider would be to give her your old camera and then you could buy a better replacement for yourself. One advantage of this is that when she has questions about the camera you would be real familiar with it.

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Kenkat
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Re: Camera Question

Post by Kenkat » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:24 am

We have a predecessor model of this same camera and it is a solid choice for the price. We don’t use it a lot as we tend to pull out the cell phone nowadays, but for more complex shots, it’s a nice camera.

I’ve bought from B&H before as well and they’ve been around a long time and are a reputable retailer for camera and electronics.

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Re: Camera Question

Post by Dottie57 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:41 am

Watty wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:31 am
Random Musings wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:10 am
She is young, 10, but really into tech.
At that age one possible issue is that some of the low cost super-zooms are not very sturdy. When they are all the way zoomed out the lens looks very vulnerable. Damage would likely not be covered by a warranty.
Random Musings wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:10 am
My 8x optical is a little long in the tooth and a 20x optical opens up the opportunity for better nature shots.


One option to consider would be to give her your old camera and then you could buy a better replacement for yourself. One advantage of this is that when she has questions about the camera you would be real familiar with it.
I think a super zoom at a younger age may be overwhelming. The camera iis hard to hold still without a tripod Think about a really nice point and shoot with some zoom included. It will be easier for her to handle.

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Re: Camera Question

Post by Mullins » Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:07 am

B&H and Adorama. Have purchased many times over the years through these two. I've also had good experiences also with some others.

Who to not deal with would be the price-sounds-too-good-to-be-true sites. You place an order and typically they'll tell you that you have to call to complete the order. When you call, that's when they go to work on you, trying to flip you to the expensive model or up sell. They have lied in the past about how, for instance, the model you ordered has a plastic shutter which breaks easily, when this is not the case. One of their tricks is to buy cameras then take out the kit lens or batteries or something which came with it, to be able to sell the parts separately back to you (or others), "you're going to need this battery, we can only guarantee it if you buy this battery" for example. So any of those outfits who need a phone call, stay away from.

"Grey market" are items sold in other countries yet manufactured by the same camera manufacturers (Canon, Nikon, etc.) They typically are just as good as those made for the USA market, it's simply that they're made for another country, so watch for where the electronics, for example, are made for a different voltage. Also, grey market items are sold without USA warranties. Naturally, if an item needs repair you can likely find a capable camera repair shop who'll repair it which of course is on you to pay. So IMO gray market items are perfectly fine when you check it out and can save you a few dollars.

Teague
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Re: Camera Question

Post by Teague » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:26 pm

Just a note about warrantying gray market goods. Nikon USA, for example, will not service gray market Nikon products, whether under warranty or not. They simply refuse to touch those products at all. And last I heard, they will not sell replacement parts to independent repair facilities. So, if the gray market product breaks, there may be no good way to get it fixed. There may be a workaround, but it may involve non-OEM parts and non-factory technicians.
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tm3
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Re: Camera Question

Post by tm3 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:34 pm

B&H is the best. Adorama is a solid choice. DPReview.com is the place for more information than you can possibly hope to digest, but is great for winnowing down the choices within a specific category (say, superzoom or compact or whatever).
snackdog wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:35 am
Have you considered an iphone11 pro? It surpasses most point and shoot cameras and infringes on DSlR territory.
For photos of stationary objects taken in bright light and viewed on a smartphone screen, yes. Otherwise, no.

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Re: Camera Question

Post by TN_Boy » Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:37 pm

Teague wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:26 pm
Just a note about warrantying gray market goods. Nikon USA, for example, will not service gray market Nikon products, whether under warranty or not. They simply refuse to touch those products at all. And last I heard, they will not sell replacement parts to independent repair facilities. So, if the gray market product breaks, there may be no good way to get it fixed. There may be a workaround, but it may involve non-OEM parts and non-factory technicians.
Another thing about repairs, if we are talking about a $250 point and shoot, it will be very expensive (relative to the value of the camera) to get almost anything fixed.

Personally, I would not go the gray market route whatever the choice; I would just buy from B&H, a very good outfit.

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Re: Camera Question

Post by TN_Boy » Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:39 pm

snackdog wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:35 am
Have you considered an iphone11 pro? It surpasses most point and shoot cameras and infringes on DSlR territory.
This statement is false.

[edited to add]

And an iphone11 pro is far out of the OP's price range.
Last edited by TN_Boy on Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Camera Question

Post by TN_Boy » Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:42 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:41 am
Watty wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:31 am
Random Musings wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:10 am
She is young, 10, but really into tech.
At that age one possible issue is that some of the low cost super-zooms are not very sturdy. When they are all the way zoomed out the lens looks very vulnerable. Damage would likely not be covered by a warranty.
Random Musings wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:10 am
My 8x optical is a little long in the tooth and a 20x optical opens up the opportunity for better nature shots.


One option to consider would be to give her your old camera and then you could buy a better replacement for yourself. One advantage of this is that when she has questions about the camera you would be real familiar with it.
I think a super zoom at a younger age may be overwhelming. The camera iis hard to hold still without a tripod Think about a really nice point and shoot with some zoom included. It will be easier for her to handle.
That's an interesting point, on the one hand, if the kid wants to get nature shots, you need some zoom (the cellphone suggestions are silly in that context). But she may have trouble understanding why fully zoomed shots are a little blurry, or why in low light stuff looks bad. Then again, given some mentoring this would be a great way for her to learn something about the exposure triangle. You learn from mistakes.

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Re: Camera Question

Post by EnjoyIt » Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:57 pm

Olympus has a waterproof point and shoot that believe it or not has better reviews than the cannon.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/digital-ca ... us&ref=212

Edit: recommendation given by my spouse who is an amateur photographer.

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Re: Camera Question

Post by TN_Boy » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:04 pm

EnjoyIt wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:57 pm
Olympus has a waterproof point and shoot that believe it or not has better reviews than the cannon.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/digital-ca ... us&ref=212

Edit: recommendation given by my spouse who is an amateur photographer.
I have an earlier version of that camera and it is a great little camera. Very tough, waterproof, etc.

But a little more expensive, and only a 4x zoom. Not as good for shots of far away things. But that's a good price (albeit still above the OP's stated range), and the sucker is rugged.

EnjoyIt
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Re: Camera Question

Post by EnjoyIt » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:08 pm

TN_Boy wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:04 pm
EnjoyIt wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:57 pm
Olympus has a waterproof point and shoot that believe it or not has better reviews than the cannon.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/digital-ca ... us&ref=212

Edit: recommendation given by my spouse who is an amateur photographer.
I have an earlier version of that camera and it is a great little camera. Very tough, waterproof, etc.

But a little more expensive, and only a 4x zoom. Not as good for shots of far away things. But that's a good price (albeit still above the OP's stated range), and the sucker is rugged.
Being 10 years old, I figured rugged and waterproof is probably a good idea.

TN_Boy
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Re: Camera Question

Post by TN_Boy » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:57 pm

EnjoyIt wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:08 pm
TN_Boy wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:04 pm
EnjoyIt wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:57 pm
Olympus has a waterproof point and shoot that believe it or not has better reviews than the cannon.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/digital-ca ... us&ref=212

Edit: recommendation given by my spouse who is an amateur photographer.
I have an earlier version of that camera and it is a great little camera. Very tough, waterproof, etc.

But a little more expensive, and only a 4x zoom. Not as good for shots of far away things. But that's a good price (albeit still above the OP's stated range), and the sucker is rugged.
Being 10 years old, I figured rugged and waterproof is probably a good idea.
I wasn't disagreeing with that point! We don't know the 10 year old. Some 10 year olds I'd trust with a (slightly) expensive piece of electronics. Others, maybe not.

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Re: Camera Question

Post by Random Musings » Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:46 pm

All,

Thanks for everyone's suggestions. My daughter is looking at the various models - with the budget constraint - we have to stick under $250. She does want a camera with a higher zoom. Was looking at B&H, but may also look toward remanufactured @ $160. Then, she can get matching case and Sandisk Extreme Pro 64GB (Western Digital Store) and a USB for the computer for around $210 with tax. B&H give you the camera, a generic case and 32GB card for about $250 with tax. No matter which way we go, will get the 1 year warranty plus 2 more with VIsa though Costco.

The Oympus was nice, but out of price range. When on vacation, I'm sure I'll be able to take a few zoom shots with it.

RM
I figure the odds be fifty-fifty I just might have something to say. FZ

tibbitts
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Re: Camera Question

Post by tibbitts » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:01 pm

Random Musings wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:46 pm
All,

Thanks for everyone's suggestions. My daughter is looking at the various models - with the budget constraint - we have to stick under $250. She does want a camera with a higher zoom. Was looking at B&H, but may also look toward remanufactured @ $160. Then, she can get matching case and Sandisk Extreme Pro 64GB (Western Digital Store) and a USB for the computer for around $210 with tax. B&H give you the camera, a generic case and 32GB card for about $250 with tax. No matter which way we go, will get the 1 year warranty plus 2 more with VIsa though Costco.

The Oympus was nice, but out of price range. When on vacation, I'm sure I'll be able to take a few zoom shots with it.

RM
I was given an SLR at 12 years old, so these days what age is equivalent? Maybe 8? So overdue for a dSLR. Probably somebody you know who is into photography has a drawer full of them and will share with her for nothing or next to nothing. I sold my first dSLR, only 10k shutter count, 6mp, for $100, would rather have given it to an interested kid, along with a couple of zooms. Even at retail you can buy a similar used model plus 2 zooms for about $200. She will outgrow anything less in a matter of months if she enjoys the hobby. Similar everbody has SDcards that aren't big enough for a current model but would work find at 6 or 10mp.

Now if you're talking video that's potentially a different story, early dSLRs did not excel at that.
Last edited by tibbitts on Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Gort
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Re: Camera Question

Post by Gort » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:02 pm

tm3 wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:34 pm
B&H is the best. Adorama is a solid choice. DPReview.com is the place for more information than you can possibly hope to digest, but is great for winnowing down the choices within a specific category (say, superzoom or compact or whatever).
snackdog wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:35 am
Have you considered an iphone11 pro? It surpasses most point and shoot cameras and infringes on DSlR territory.
For photos of stationary objects taken in bright light and viewed on a smartphone screen, yes. Otherwise, no.
DPReview.com is owned by Amazon. Sometimes I think they promote certain camera brands over others. They always have a purchase link in their articles taking you to Amazon. DPR is a good start but I would read product user reviews from B&H and Adorama to help with your purchase decision.

robphoto
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Re: Camera Question

Post by robphoto » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:09 pm

Definitely have her try the cameras in a store. I can read reviews extensively, but when I pick up and try the cameras I'll have a visceral preference for one over the other.

Oh, and B&H is rock solid, excellent service. You can call them with questions and talk to someone who knows cameras.

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Re: Camera Question

Post by bob60014 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:30 pm

Gort wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:02 pm

DPReview.com is owned by Amazon. Sometimes I think they promote certain camera brands over others.
Perhaps, but I wouldn't hold that against them. Like this forum, if one goes into DPR's forums there is a wealth of indepth information posted by some highly knowledgeable people.

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Re: Camera Question

Post by spae » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:51 pm

snackdog wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:35 am
Have you considered an iphone11 pro? It surpasses most point and shoot cameras and infringes on DSlR territory.
An iPhone11 isn't in the same league as the Ricoh GR (a point and shoot released in 2013) let alone a modern interchangeable lens camera.

If it's not a faux pas to give a used item as a gift, in the budget OP is discussing, I would get an a5100 used for $240: https://www.keh.com/shop/sony-a5100-bla ... 72002.html. I know enough photographers that I could bum a cheap lens off of someone if I needed to. If OP doesn't, an a5100 would come in somewhat over budget with a lens.

If OP can't get a free or discounted lens and wants to come in under budget, they can get a used a5000 for $140: https://www.keh.com/shop/sony-a5000-bla ... 1-m-p.html. The autofocus on the a5000 is poor by modern standards, but the image quality will be superior to any $250 new point and shoot even with a cheap lens like this $100 lens: https://www.keh.com/shop/sony-sel1855-1 ... mount.html.

Both the a5000 and a5100 use the same lens mount as Sony's high-end full-frame camera line, so OP can buy a nicer lens or lenses and then upgrade the body and use the same lenses later if their daughter gets seriously into photography.
Last edited by spae on Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Camera Question

Post by Elric » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:31 pm

Yet one more vote for B&H. Very reputable, good pricing, and they have been in business "forever." If you're ever in New York City, you can visit their large brick and mortar store.
"No man is free who works for a living." | Illya Kuryakin

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Re: Camera Question

Post by gnujoe2001 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:10 am

Can't go wrong with B&H. All else being equal (or even if it costs a few bucks more), B&H knows how to properly package boxes for shipment, since they are primarily a camera shop. Another bonus with B&H is as far as I know all the items on their web site are sold directly from them, vs. Amazon where you have to check if its sold by Amazon.com, "Fulfilled by Amazon", or another seller.

Do check out what Canon offers on their refurbished site. --Pricing does vary over time. I've bought refurb Powershot models for our kids for relatively cheap and work well enough.

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Re: Camera Question

Post by krb » Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:45 am

Random Musings wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:44 pm
Want to get a relatively inexpensive camera, but still a decent camera for my daughter. I'm looking at the Canon Power Shot SX620 which seems to have a solid optical zoom. Seems like a good entry point camera.

Also, there seem to be lots of reviews for B&H as a camera dealer, does anyone have experience with them. I noticed some interesting pricing with other NY based retailers, but when reviewing there ratings, lots of comments about gray market products. B&H states they are an authorized dealer for Canon and they have lots of favorable reviews.

Would appreciate everyone's thoughts. The pricing point is at the top of her range, as it will be a gift from a relative. So, a $300 camera is a no go.

Thankks.

RM
The answer is easy. I’m a pretty experienced amateur. I’ve dealt with b and h a lot. They are simply the best. Get
On the phone. Call then tomorrow. Tell them what you need and they will talk you through and get y exactly what they need. They will absolutely for sure not oversell you and you can trust whatever they tell you. Several or many times I had my heart set on more expensive equipment and they kept asking why do you need it? Why not the less expensive camera or lens? Just call them and buy whatever they recommend. They are the best!!! For real! I love them. If you can’t tell.

krb
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Re: Camera Question

Post by krb » Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:48 am

Random Musings wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:45 pm
Watty wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:37 pm
I could not find a link but a while back someone that lived in New York city went around taking pictures of the addresses of the discount stores and posted them on the web. Just the appearance of them was eye opening since many of them were located in places like dumpy apartment buildings in a bad part of town.

Many of them do things like strip the camera of things like the expensive battery and then try to call you and sell you upgrades and if you do not buy them then they will be mysteriously out of stock and cancel your order that was at what seemed like a great price. They have also been known to ship you returned or used equipment.

B&H has a really good reputation and unless you get lucky and get some special Black Friday doorbuster you are unlikely to beat their price by more than a few dollars on a legitimate deal.

When you buy new non-gray market equipment many credit cards will also double your manufacturer's warranty and maybe give some protection in case the camera is dropped.

When looking at ads you also have to be very careful since and ad might say something like "US Warranty" when it is not a manufacture warranty but just some third party camera repair shop. A big problem with that is even if they try to fix a camera they may not have the special tools or access to the parts to fix a problem.

For that level camera you could also look at Best Buy, Costco, Target, Walmart, etc.
Random Musings wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:44 pm
The pricing point is at the top of her range, as it will be a gift from a relative. So, a $300 camera is a no go.
One other option to consider is that Canon sells refurbished cameras on their website and they provide a one year Canon warranty. I have bought several higher level cameras and lenses from them and they always looked like new and I never had any problems with them.

https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/cata ... d&pageSize:&
Thanks, WTty. With respect to warranty, I believe my Costco Visa card extends the warranty another 2 years. I will also take a look at refurbished, I've done that with Apple before with no problems.

RM
Don’t get refurbished. If there is a problem you may have no difficulty getting it fixed or you may have great difficulty. It’s not worth the cost savings. If you’re looking at under $300 getting whatever is canon or Nikon at Costco is fine. But I’d still talk with b and h.

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Re: Camera Question

Post by krb » Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:54 am

Random Musings wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:10 am
GUtiger wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:50 pm
The only way to know if this is a reasonable camera for her is to know what the purpose of the camera is. Does she plan to take a few snapshots during travel? Is she starting to get into photography? Does she plan to shoot video?

The major question to answer is whether she can accomplish her goals using the camera on her smartphone as that is truly adequate for most people these days.
She is interested in photography, both outdoor nature shots as well as people. Has used my camera on trips before and takes decent pictures. A good optical zoom, IMHO, will come in handy. My 8x optical is a little long in the tooth and a 20x optical opens up the opportunity for better nature shots. She is young, 10, but really into tech. Has no smartphone yet and won't for a few more years, at least. I do agree that many phones take good pictures, my Pixel 3a works well, but my camera still provides higher quality shots.

RM
Totally off topic but ... as a photography enthusiast - entry level SLR cameras are on the way out. Cellphone cameras are SO GOOD now that for most people they meet the threshold of what they need. If you want to upload a picture to facebook or instagram, or text friends with pictures, cellphone cameras are actually better than entry level DSLR in that as soon as you shoot you can upload whereas you have to go through a lot to upload the SLR picture. This is not a decision not to buy the camera. If she is into photography she needs to learn the fundamentals of photography and can do so on an inexpensive camera before deciding as to whether or not to get into photography seriously. But cellphone cameras are REALLY good. If someone is interested in printing, a real camera is probably necessary. If someone is interested in posting to FB or IG, a cellphone camera is sufficient.

This shouldn't change your decision - if she likes photography she should get a real camera.

krb
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Re: Camera Question

Post by krb » Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:57 am

Dottie57 wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:41 am
Watty wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:31 am
Random Musings wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:10 am
She is young, 10, but really into tech.
At that age one possible issue is that some of the low cost super-zooms are not very sturdy. When they are all the way zoomed out the lens looks very vulnerable. Damage would likely not be covered by a warranty.
Random Musings wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:10 am
My 8x optical is a little long in the tooth and a 20x optical opens up the opportunity for better nature shots.


One option to consider would be to give her your old camera and then you could buy a better replacement for yourself. One advantage of this is that when she has questions about the camera you would be real familiar with it.
I think a super zoom at a younger age may be overwhelming. The camera iis hard to hold still without a tripod Think about a really nice point and shoot with some zoom included. It will be easier for her to handle.
Actually from his example it looks like he's looking at a point and shoot, not SLR.

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Re: Camera Question

Post by krb » Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:58 am

spae wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:51 pm
snackdog wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:35 am
Have you considered an iphone11 pro? It surpasses most point and shoot cameras and infringes on DSlR territory.
An iPhone11 isn't in the same league as the Ricoh GR (a point and shoot released in 2013) let alone a modern interchangeable lens camera.

If it's not a faux pas to give a used item as a gift, in the budget OP is discussing, I would get an a5100 used for $240: https://www.keh.com/shop/sony-a5100-bla ... 72002.html. I know enough photographers that I could bum a cheap lens off of someone if I needed to. If OP doesn't, an a5100 would come in somewhat over budget with a lens.

If OP can't get a free or discounted lens and wants to come in under budget, they can get a used a5000 for $140: https://www.keh.com/shop/sony-a5000-bla ... 1-m-p.html. The autofocus on the a5000 is poor by modern standards, but the image quality will be superior to any $250 new point and shoot even with a cheap lens like this $100 lens: https://www.keh.com/shop/sony-sel1855-1 ... mount.html.

Both the a5000 and a5100 use the same lens mount as Sony's high-end full-frame camera line, so OP can buy a nicer lens or lenses and then upgrade the body and use the same lenses later if their daughter gets seriously into photography.
Why is it not in the same league?

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Re: Camera Question

Post by Watty » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:03 am

krb wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:54 am
But cellphone cameras are REALLY good.
The OP has a budget of around $250 and seems to be interested in getting something that has a powerful zoom for things like nature photography.

Cell phones have their place but you can easily spend over $1,000 on one and it would be mainly for taking wide angle photos.

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Re: Camera Question

Post by midareff » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:42 am

krb wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:58 am
spae wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:51 pm
snackdog wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:35 am
Have you considered an iphone11 pro? It surpasses most point and shoot cameras and infringes on DSlR territory.
An iPhone11 isn't in the same league as the Ricoh GR (a point and shoot released in 2013) let alone a modern interchangeable lens camera.

If it's not a faux pas to give a used item as a gift, in the budget OP is discussing, I would get an a5100 used for $240: https://www.keh.com/shop/sony-a5100-bla ... 72002.html. I know enough photographers that I could bum a cheap lens off of someone if I needed to. If OP doesn't, an a5100 would come in somewhat over budget with a lens.

If OP can't get a free or discounted lens and wants to come in under budget, they can get a used a5000 for $140: https://www.keh.com/shop/sony-a5000-bla ... 1-m-p.html. The autofocus on the a5000 is poor by modern standards, but the image quality will be superior to any $250 new point and shoot even with a cheap lens like this $100 lens: https://www.keh.com/shop/sony-sel1855-1 ... mount.html.

Both the a5000 and a5100 use the same lens mount as Sony's high-end full-frame camera line, so OP can buy a nicer lens or lenses and then upgrade the body and use the same lenses later if their daughter gets seriously into photography.
Why is it not in the same league?
1. Tiny sensor can not match dynamic range of even compact camera sensors let alone 1", APS-C or Full Frame.
2. Colors produced by the internal software may be pleasant enough but they are not accurate as to what you saw with your own eyes.
3. The size of the lens on a cell phone is extraordinarily limiting as to perspective and focusing requiring significant internal processing for corrections. In this case the more you do the less the end product will be.
4. OTOH, a cell can be a valuable tool on a trip as a second or third camera. ... until you get home and compare results. When you start to count "keepers" against the results of your Sony, Nikon, Fuji, Canon, Ricoh, etc., the real story will be told.
5. A good zoom lens vs. a digitized cell zoom will always be superior.

Is that enough?

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Re: Camera Question

Post by Dottie57 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:53 am

midareff wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:42 am
krb wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:58 am
spae wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:51 pm
snackdog wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:35 am
Have you considered an iphone11 pro? It surpasses most point and shoot cameras and infringes on DSlR territory.
An iPhone11 isn't in the same league as the Ricoh GR (a point and shoot released in 2013) let alone a modern interchangeable lens camera.

If it's not a faux pas to give a used item as a gift, in the budget OP is discussing, I would get an a5100 used for $240: https://www.keh.com/shop/sony-a5100-bla ... 72002.html. I know enough photographers that I could bum a cheap lens off of someone if I needed to. If OP doesn't, an a5100 would come in somewhat over budget with a lens.

If OP can't get a free or discounted lens and wants to come in under budget, they can get a used a5000 for $140: https://www.keh.com/shop/sony-a5000-bla ... 1-m-p.html. The autofocus on the a5000 is poor by modern standards, but the image quality will be superior to any $250 new point and shoot even with a cheap lens like this $100 lens: https://www.keh.com/shop/sony-sel1855-1 ... mount.html.

Both the a5000 and a5100 use the same lens mount as Sony's high-end full-frame camera line, so OP can buy a nicer lens or lenses and then upgrade the body and use the same lenses later if their daughter gets seriously into photography.
Why is it not in the same league?
1. Tiny sensor can not match dynamic range of even compact camera sensors let alone 1", APS-C or Full Frame.
2. Colors produced by the internal software may be pleasant enough but they are not accurate as to what you saw with your own eyes.
3. The size of the lens on a cell phone is extraordinarily limiting as to perspective and focusing requiring significant internal processing for corrections. In this case the more you do the less the end product will be.
4. OTOH, a cell can be a valuable tool on a trip as a second or third camera. ... until you get home and compare results. When you start to count "keepers" against the results of your Sony, Nikon, Fuji, Canon, Ricoh, etc., the real story will be told.
5. A good zoom lens vs. a digitized cell zoom will always be superior.

Is that enough?
Agree completely. Love my iPhone for a quick shot.

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Random Musings
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Re: Camera Question

Post by Random Musings » Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:06 am

Watty wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:03 am
krb wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:54 am
But cellphone cameras are REALLY good.
The OP has a budget of around $250 and seems to be interested in getting something that has a powerful zoom for things like nature photography.

Cell phones have their place but you can easily spend over $1,000 on one and it would be mainly for taking wide angle photos.
Thanks for paying attention. Plus, our daughter is not getting a cell phone for another three years and it won't be a 1k phone anyway (we have google 3a's that we got for $207 and they take nice pictures in general). Also, she is interested in photography and a strong optical zoom is a must. Plus, as stated originally, there is still that budget constraint.

Also, as midareff mentioned, optical zooms provide nicer pictures when compared to digital zooms. Even my old 8x optical Fuji makes pictures that most iPhone picture takers say what type of camera I am using, especially with nature shots. I don't extend into the digital zoom option as the picture starts to degrade.

RM
I figure the odds be fifty-fifty I just might have something to say. FZ

tibbitts
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Re: Camera Question

Post by tibbitts » Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:36 am

Random Musings wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:06 am
Watty wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:03 am
krb wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:54 am
But cellphone cameras are REALLY good.
The OP has a budget of around $250 and seems to be interested in getting something that has a powerful zoom for things like nature photography.

Cell phones have their place but you can easily spend over $1,000 on one and it would be mainly for taking wide angle photos.
Thanks for paying attention. Plus, our daughter is not getting a cell phone for another three years and it won't be a 1k phone anyway (we have google 3a's that we got for $207 and they take nice pictures in general). Also, she is interested in photography and a strong optical zoom is a must. Plus, as stated originally, there is still that budget constraint.

Also, as midareff mentioned, optical zooms provide nicer pictures when compared to digital zooms. Even my old 8x optical Fuji makes pictures that most iPhone picture takers say what type of camera I am using, especially with nature shots. I don't extend into the digital zoom option as the picture starts to degrade.

RM
Just one issue with a tiny sensor is that you have very limited or no ability to explore traditional adjustments (shutter, aperture, and now sensitivity), and that is what she'll want to learn. As I said I would invest very little and get her some kind of fairly fully adjustable camera that she can learn from to determine if photography is for her. The difference between a dSLR and mirrorless is not significant for whatever she would be doing, and yes before investing in non-trivial lenses I would consider the future of the various mounts more. I would not spend more than your budget, but would use that budget to get a somewhat serious camera.

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Re: Camera Question

Post by lazydavid » Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:48 am

Watty wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:37 pm
I could not find a link but a while back someone that lived in New York city went around taking pictures of the addresses of the discount stores and posted them on the web. Just the appearance of them was eye opening since many of them were located in places like dumpy apartment buildings in a bad part of town.

Many of them do things like strip the camera of things like the expensive battery and then try to call you and sell you upgrades and if you do not buy them then they will be mysteriously out of stock and cancel your order that was at what seemed like a great price. They have also been known to ship you returned or used equipment.
That was me, here is the site: http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/

Bottom line is there are only three NY camera retailers that I recommend, and you should absolutely avoid anything with a Brooklyn address. Here are the dealers you're allowed to use:
  • B&H Photo Video
  • Adorama
  • KEH

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