Timeshare offer experience

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HEDGEFUNDIE
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Timeshare offer experience

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

Posting my experience on a timeshare promotion as I know several Bogleheads have received the same offer.

I got this offer in the mail a few months ago:

1. Five nights at the Westin Princeville Kauai (for the nights we went, worth $2,000)
2. Rental car (worth $185)
3. $75 resort credit
4. Mandatory 90 minute timeshare presentation

All for $649.

I just walked out of the presentation, 78 minutes start to finish. Super nice salesman, no hard sell. Of course we didn’t buy a timeshare, but something interesting we were presented with at the very end was the following offer to return and do it all over again:

1. Another 5 nights at the same hotel anytime in the next two years
2. 100,000 Marriott points (worth $800-$1,000)
3. Another mandatory timeshare presentation

...For $1,400. I’m actually thinking of buying it...
BionicBillWalsh
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by BionicBillWalsh »

Given the average nightly room rate here in Maui is approaching the entire cost of your first trip...doesn’t sound like a bad deal if you like Hawaii and can resist the sharky timeshare sales people.
Jerry Garcia: If I knew the way...I would take you home.
harrychan
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by harrychan »

I've been waiting for that offer. I'll take it in a heartbeat. My DW and I are dead set in not purchasing so giving 78 min in exchange for a stay in their resort is a no brainer. We got the same promo a while back for Kauai and Scottsdale but the timing didn't work out.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
GoldenFinch
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by GoldenFinch »

They must have reason to believe offering these trips will eventually pay off for them.
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HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

GoldenFinch wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:09 pm They must have reason to believe offering these trips will eventually pay off for them.
I put it in the same bucket as credit card and bank sign up bonuses.
random_walker_77
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by random_walker_77 »

If you ever need help inoculating against buying such a timeshare, look up what they've recently sold for on ebay.
(There are also sites that specialize in timeshare resales -- forget what it's called, but think it's something like timeshare users group.)

For ebay, if you're logged in, you can search for recently sold listings to see what the going rate is. Looks like someone just bought a platinum 2 bed/2ba one week deed, even years, at Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas on the northshore of Kauai. Sold after 12 bids for $22.50.

"THIS RESORT HAS THE RIGHT OF FIRST REFUSAL. IF EXERCISED THE BUYER WILL RECEIVE A FULL REFUND"

Of course, there's also the $275 closing fees, and $1521 in maintenance fees for 2020. That maintenance fee is going to repeat, which is presumably why the seller was desperate to unload this for less than $50.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-WESTIN-PRI ... SwHP1doMk4

Some products sell themselves. Like whole-life insurance, this is the kind of property that needs to be sold by good salespeople. How much were they asking? If in a group timeshare presentation, one way to get asked out quicker is to start discussing the resale prices in front of the other potential customers...
hoops777
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by hoops777 »

I stopped doing this after a salesperson told me that this is his livelihood and you had no intention of buying so I was being selfish and abusing the system.He was right but the timeshare companies do the same.I did that same deal in Princeville but was not offered the second trip with the points.
K.I.S.S........so easy to say so difficult to do.
hoops777
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by hoops777 »

hoops777 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:39 pm I stopped doing this after a salesperson told me that this is his livelihood and you had no intention of buying so I was being selfish and abusing the system.He was right but the timeshare companies do the same.I did that same deal in Princeville but was not offered the second trip with the points.
I foolishly bought a Starwood timeshare in 2003 which we still own.The HOA is now 1340 dollars a year.I am ok with it because we can stay in a very nice place in Maui for a week or stretch it out 2 to 3 weeks depending on when and where we stay.Now that we are retired I just view it like I have a bill of 1340 a year and how can I best get value out of that.Bad investment but not the worst thing in the world.I save about 500 to 1000 dollars in my yearly stays now based on my HOA and what the stays would cost paying cash.
K.I.S.S........so easy to say so difficult to do.
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HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

hoops777 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:39 pm I stopped doing this after a salesperson told me that this is his livelihood and you had no intention of buying so I was being selfish and abusing the system.He was right but the timeshare companies do the same.I did that same deal in Princeville but was not offered the second trip with the points.
I have absolutely no moral qualms about doing this. The salesperson told me only 1 out of 4 people buy, which is baked into their decision to offer the promotion in the first place. If it wasn’t profitable for them they wouldn’t offer it.
Topic Author
HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

random_walker_77 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:30 pm If you ever need help inoculating against buying such a timeshare, look up what they've recently sold for on ebay.
(There are also sites that specialize in timeshare resales -- forget what it's called, but think it's something like timeshare users group.)

For ebay, if you're logged in, you can search for recently sold listings to see what the going rate is. Looks like someone just bought a platinum 2 bed/2ba one week deed, even years, at Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas on the northshore of Kauai. Sold after 12 bids for $22.50.

"THIS RESORT HAS THE RIGHT OF FIRST REFUSAL. IF EXERCISED THE BUYER WILL RECEIVE A FULL REFUND"

Of course, there's also the $275 closing fees, and $1521 in maintenance fees for 2020. That maintenance fee is going to repeat, which is presumably why the seller was desperate to unload this for less than $50.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-WESTIN-PRI ... SwHP1doMk4

Some products sell themselves. Like whole-life insurance, this is the kind of property that needs to be sold by good salespeople. How much were they asking? If in a group timeshare presentation, one way to get asked out quicker is to start discussing the resale prices in front of the other potential customers...
Lowest price I was offered was $19k for a studio every other year. Plus annual maintenance.

The resale offer is actually not a bad deal, if you were going to go to the resort regularly anyway and needed the space. $3,000 in maintenance fees divided by seven nights is $428/night. A two bedroom unit rented with cash goes for $700-800/night.
Last edited by HEDGEFUNDIE on Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
spae
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by spae »

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Last edited by spae on Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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unclescrooge
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by unclescrooge »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:40 pm Posting my experience on a timeshare promotion as I know several Bogleheads have received the same offer.

I got this offer in the mail a few months ago:

1. Five nights at the Westin Princeville Kauai (for the nights we went, worth $2,000)
2. Rental car (worth $185)
3. $75 resort credit
4. Mandatory 90 minute timeshare presentation

All for $649.

I just walked out of the presentation, 78 minutes start to finish. Super nice salesman, no hard sell. Of course we didn’t buy a timeshare, but something interesting we were presented with at the very end was the following offer to return and do it all over again:

1. Another 5 nights at the same hotel anytime in the next two years
2. 100,000 Marriott points (worth $800-$1,000)
3. Another mandatory timeshare presentation

...For $1,400. I’m actually thinking of buying it...
I just put down my deposit yesterday! Did you rent a car. Did you have to pay for daily parking?

My in-laws have a timeshare in Pono Kai. We joined them last year and paid $649 for 6 nights in a 2 bedroom ocean view apartment. It's not the Westin, but that's reflected in the price. Considering these usually rent for $200-300 a night I think my in-laws did okay.

Not the best investment in the world, not not terrible either.
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djpeteski
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by djpeteski »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:11 pm
GoldenFinch wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:09 pm They must have reason to believe offering these trips will eventually pay off for them.
I put it in the same bucket as credit card and bank sign up bonuses.
So the wife and I take advantage of many time share offers. Every time we go, someone buys. It is not us of course, but even if there is only one other couple on the van with us they tend to be the ones closing. Time share presentations work and they have no idea if you will be their huckleberry that day. The arguments they make are persuasive, but they are full of, at best, half truths. Many are outright lies.

The most distressing close we saw was a couple in their 50's attempting to refinance their cars so they could afford the payment on the time share. The presentation was the day before, and they returned continuing to work the deal. That one freaked us out.
aerosurfer
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by aerosurfer »

So how do you get the teaser deals in the first place? We sat through one in Cabo on our honeymoon years ago... great rewards for it, including a free stay to come back... which we did... sat through the same guys sales pitch. Still no sale, but I'm all for a promo deal
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

hoops777 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:39 pm I stopped doing this after a salesperson told me that this is his livelihood and you had no intention of buying so I was being selfish and abusing the system.He was right but the timeshare companies do the same.I did that same deal in Princeville but was not offered the second trip with the points.
Over 2 years on St. Thomas:

First year, go through entire presentation and stick with a firm "no". Sales person asks if we had any intention of considering purchase and I said "No, I was looking for the prize and nothing more". He gave me the "I do this for a living, if you don't want to consider buying, just say so before the presentation starts".

Year 2, handed a flier in the airport. It, of course features in the biggest letters all the prizes and they'll pay for the taxi ride. Small letters, must sit though presentation. We get to the resort and keeping last year's suggestion in mind, we're moving with the salesman from the welcome booth to the sales room (or somewhere) and he's asking the questions: "If I could show you a way to save money on vacations every year, would you consider buying?". Me: "No". He stops and clarifies with me that we're just there for the prize. Yup. He says to wait. He goes into a building and comes back with the restaurant certificate and taxi fare ($10) all in coins. He's all mad, of course and says we're wasting his time. I expect that sales people have to rotate just like car sales people do, so he's lost his turn in line to fleece an unsuspecting couple. The restaurant was great and we easily spent the $10 in coins.
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djpeteski
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by djpeteski »

aerosurfer wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:48 am So how do you get the teaser deals in the first place? We sat through one in Cabo on our honeymoon years ago... great rewards for it, including a free stay to come back... which we did... sat through the same guys sales pitch. Still no sale, but I'm all for a promo deal
The best ones are offered through Marriott or Hilton rewards clubs. They make you pay part of it, but the cost is low in comparison to the actual hotel stay. My wife and I travel a lot less for business these days, which seems to be the tickler for the calls. That seems strange to me, but it seems to be the case. When I traveled a lot for business, I wanted to be home for my vacations.

As an alternative you can purchase a time share week on sites like redweek.com. We may have to do that for our next vacation if no deals are forth coming.
Bronko
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by Bronko »

For what it's worth I've done 3 of these packages with Marriott and I have another coming in a few months. Always the 5 day stay, rental car, resort credit etc. Calculated over the cost of the normal resort rooms it's a great savings. They do have a calendar you need to work around for stays, or you will be asked to pay another 100-300 for premium weeks in high season (if available).

The sales presentation has been one on one and I've had good experiences with Marriott. The one I did with Westgate ended with me getting the general manager to our sales office and advising him to sign off on my certificate of presentation ASAP or the entire office full of prospective buyers would hear me explain what false imprisonment charges were.

You don't get a premium view room but they've all been very nice. The reason I've gotten several is called a "bounce back pass" with Marriott. They must feel eventually they will get me so they keep bringing me in with the offer. It really is a great deal. I always ask for and confirm a morning meeting first thing. Pour a large coffee and let them ramble. Use it as an opportunity to practice turning conversations back to the other person and getting them to open up about themselves. Or just put whiskey in your coffee and chill out.

I do tell them when I walk in they will have to be the best salesperson in the world AND drop the price 80% to have a chance of selling me. It's always been a good laugh and taken in humor. I can't stand going to the meeting but I think of how much I'm saving and that is a solid hourly rate in my book.
Never let a little bit of money get in the way of a real good time.
ChrisC
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by ChrisC »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:40 pm Of course we didn’t buy a timeshare, but something interesting we were presented with at the very end was the following offer to return and do it all over again:

1. Another 5 nights at the same hotel anytime in the next two years
2. 100,000 Marriott points (worth $800-$1,000)
3. Another mandatory timeshare presentation

...For $1,400. I’m actually thinking of buying it...
This is called an Encore presentation/offer. I’ve done several over the years. It is actually a very good deal especially if you’re a Marriott points junkie. I own Marriott timeshares, Marriott branded credit cards, and while working stayed at Marriott branded hotels.

I am Lifetime Titanium in the Marriott Rewards program; retired with over 1.8 million reward points — still have around 400k points. Have used my points this year for 5 nights at the JW Essex in NYC, several nights at the Brooklyn Marriott, and 5 nights at the Nashville TN Renaissance Hotel. My points have also been converted on occasion for FF miles with American and United Air.

If you’re Platinum or Titanium status, you get several benefits with stays including access to the Concierge Lounges. Outside of the U.S., these lounges at Marriott branded hotels have quite a spread of free food and hard liquor.

There’s an enlightened and tough crowd at Flyer Talk that has lots of info about the Marriott/Bonvoy rewards program especially since Marriott’s brands have expanded to Starwood’s, Ritz-Carlton, and AC boutique hotels. For timeshares, especially buying in the resale aftermarket, the crowd at Tug, the Timeshares Users Group provides great advice.
vasaver
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by vasaver »

Can you schedule these "deals" during the busy season (Red/Platinum, Christmas......) or just during the off season like now when they would have empty rooms?
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Watty
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by Watty »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:40 pm All for $649.
It was a long time ago but I know someone who signed up for a timeshare presentation with a fee but it was a scam.

I don't recall why but they were not able to a refund through their credit card.

Be careful.
Shallowpockets
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by Shallowpockets »

Good luck in all that. Unfortunately I lived my life like a BH and now retired and I don't need to be chasing free this or that that is accompanied by onerous talks and time to get a free vacation.
As for taking something from the scammers as a kind of revenge, I personally don't want to associate with those kinds of people.
Just think if everyone said no to even the presentation. Then they would not even have an audience at all and could not play the percentages.
Even if you go to say no you are feeding into the entire scheme.
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HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

unclescrooge wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:17 am
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:40 pm Posting my experience on a timeshare promotion as I know several Bogleheads have received the same offer.

I got this offer in the mail a few months ago:

1. Five nights at the Westin Princeville Kauai (for the nights we went, worth $2,000)
2. Rental car (worth $185)
3. $75 resort credit
4. Mandatory 90 minute timeshare presentation

All for $649.

I just walked out of the presentation, 78 minutes start to finish. Super nice salesman, no hard sell. Of course we didn’t buy a timeshare, but something interesting we were presented with at the very end was the following offer to return and do it all over again:

1. Another 5 nights at the same hotel anytime in the next two years
2. 100,000 Marriott points (worth $800-$1,000)
3. Another mandatory timeshare presentation

...For $1,400. I’m actually thinking of buying it...
I just put down my deposit yesterday! Did you rent a car. Did you have to pay for daily parking?

My in-laws have a timeshare in Pono Kai. We joined them last year and paid $649 for 6 nights in a 2 bedroom ocean view apartment. It's not the Westin, but that's reflected in the price. Considering these usually rent for $200-300 a night I think my in-laws did okay.

Not the best investment in the world, not not terrible either.
Congratulations! Six days rental car were included in the offer, I actually extended the car a few days and the six free days showed up as a $185 credit.

Yes I did pay the on site parking fee of $18/day
rashad3000
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by rashad3000 »

Interesting! We just booked an all-inclusive trip through BookVip to Cabo for $599. We have to sit through one of these awful presentations. In 2015, for our 10th anniversary, we went to Westgate in Las Vegas, booked through Hotwire. When we got there, we were invited to a presentation for free breakfast, lunch, dinner, gondola ride, wax museum, etc. Of course, we went. The guy took about 2-3 hours of our time. We had zero intention of buying anything. He went from being the nicest guy in the world to a jerk when he realized that he got got. I promised myself I would never go through one of those things ever again. I held off for awhile, but came across this Cabo deal and will take my wife for our 15th anniversary next summer.

I've read on the BookVip FB page that the salespeople aren't TOO pushy. That's good because regardless, I'll keep saying "no". I wish someone could just ask me if I plan on buying and just let me go when I say "no". But a requirement is to actually sit through the presentation.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by RickBoglehead »

Years ago we went to one of these, and after wasting 90 minutes of our time vowed we'd never do it again. A vacation is supposed to be pleasurable, and having this hanging there, then hoping it will end, fending off the salesperson, ... No thanks.
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Texanbybirth
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by Texanbybirth »

Excellent, thanks for sharing your experience. I've gotten this offer three times in the last two years, and I think there were even some Marriott points (50k rings a bell) thrown in the initial offer. If we didn't have three little kids I would have already taken the offer. Hopefully it'll still be around in 10 years! :beer
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Topic Author
HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

Texanbybirth wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:28 pm Excellent, thanks for sharing your experience. I've gotten this offer three times in the last two years, and I think there were even some Marriott points (50k rings a bell) thrown in the initial offer. If we didn't have three little kids I would have already taken the offer. Hopefully it'll still be around in 10 years! :beer
We brought our 1 year old toddler to the presentation and it went fine! In fact it probably had something to do with them letting us go early.
capjak
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by capjak »

Absolutely love my 5 timeshares (Disney, Westin,Sheraton,Marriott,Hilton). All bought resale of course for 50% or more off retail. Many many years of travel with family in 2 or 3 bedrooms and look forward to many more with grand kids. Absolutely forced to go places and take vacations.
bberris
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by bberris »

hoops777 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:39 pm I stopped doing this after a salesperson told me that this is his livelihood and you had no intention of buying so I was being selfish and abusing the system.He was right but the timeshare companies do the same.I did that same deal in Princeville but was not offered the second trip with the points.
Wait, a timeshare salesman gave you a morals lesson? Glass houses etc.
michaeljc70
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by michaeljc70 »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:56 pm
hoops777 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:39 pm I stopped doing this after a salesperson told me that this is his livelihood and you had no intention of buying so I was being selfish and abusing the system.He was right but the timeshare companies do the same.I did that same deal in Princeville but was not offered the second trip with the points.
I have absolutely no moral qualms about doing this. The salesperson told me only 1 out of 4 people buy, which is baked into their decision to offer the promotion in the first place. If it wasn’t profitable for them they wouldn’t offer it.
Wow. I am surprised it is that high. But I guess most aren't Bogleheads. They also must not see the commercials where you have to PAY someone to get rid of your timeshare. :oops:
hoops777
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by hoops777 »

capjak wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:06 pm Absolutely love my 5 timeshares (Disney, Westin,Sheraton,Marriott,Hilton). All bought resale of course for 50% or more off retail. Many many years of travel with family in 2 or 3 bedrooms and look forward to many more with grand kids. Absolutely forced to go places and take vacations.
I am not saying that timeshares are a wise purchase,but they are not as bad as all of the “experts” say either.You can get some great deals on the secondary market and sometimes you get some pretty impressive extras buying new.You can also get fleeced of course.I would say after owning my Starwood for 16 years,I am probably very close to even with the money I have saved using the timeshare strategically along with the bonus stays over the years.
K.I.S.S........so easy to say so difficult to do.
delamer
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by delamer »

Shallowpockets wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:12 pm Good luck in all that. Unfortunately I lived my life like a BH and now retired and I don't need to be chasing free this or that that is accompanied by onerous talks and time to get a free vacation.
As for taking something from the scammers as a kind of revenge, I personally don't want to associate with those kinds of people.
Just think if everyone said no to even the presentation. Then they would not even have an audience at all and could not play the percentages.
Even if you go to say no you are feeding into the entire scheme.
My thoughts exactly.
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HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

Shallowpockets wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:12 pm Good luck in all that. Unfortunately I lived my life like a BH and now retired and I don't need to be chasing free this or that that is accompanied by onerous talks and time to get a free vacation.
As for taking something from the scammers as a kind of revenge, I personally don't want to associate with those kinds of people.
Just think if everyone said no to even the presentation. Then they would not even have an audience at all and could not play the percentages.
Even if you go to say no you are feeding into the entire scheme.
Congratulations on having so much money you don’t feel the need to take advantage of great deals.

Please excuse the rest of us for doing what we can to speed our journey to financial independence. I saved over $1,000 on this vacation.
delamer
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by delamer »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:27 pm
Shallowpockets wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:12 pm Good luck in all that. Unfortunately I lived my life like a BH and now retired and I don't need to be chasing free this or that that is accompanied by onerous talks and time to get a free vacation.
As for taking something from the scammers as a kind of revenge, I personally don't want to associate with those kinds of people.
Just think if everyone said no to even the presentation. Then they would not even have an audience at all and could not play the percentages.
Even if you go to say no you are feeding into the entire scheme.
Congratulations on having so much money you don’t feel the need to take advantage of great deals.

Please excuse the rest of us for doing what we can to speed our journey to financial independence. I saved over $1,000 on this vacation.
The broader point is that the timeshare system rips off vulnerable people.

But none of us has clean hands. You can make the same point about rewards points on credit cards being financed by those who get stuck with the 24% APRs.

So pick your poison, I suppose.
harrychan
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by harrychan »

aerosurfer wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:48 am So how do you get the teaser deals in the first place? We sat through one in Cabo on our honeymoon years ago... great rewards for it, including a free stay to come back... which we did... sat through the same guys sales pitch. Still no sale, but I'm all for a promo deal
Funny you say Cabo. One time a street marketer was making offers to listen to a timeshare pitch. It started with dinner cruise tickets, outings, then hard cold cash from $100. Eventually, he offered $400! It makes me wonder how much they were given to bring a couple in.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
hoops777
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by hoops777 »

delamer wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:51 pm
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:27 pm
Shallowpockets wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:12 pm Good luck in all that. Unfortunately I lived my life like a BH and now retired and I don't need to be chasing free this or that that is accompanied by onerous talks and time to get a free vacation.
As for taking something from the scammers as a kind of revenge, I personally don't want to associate with those kinds of people.
Just think if everyone said no to even the presentation. Then they would not even have an audience at all and could not play the percentages.
Even if you go to say no you are feeding into the entire scheme.
Congratulations on having so much money you don’t feel the need to take advantage of great deals.

Please excuse the rest of us for doing what we can to speed our journey to financial independence. I saved over $1,000 on this vacation.
The broader point is that the timeshare system rips off vulnerable people.

But none of us has clean hands. You can make the same point about rewards points on credit cards being financed by those who get stuck with the 24% APRs.

So pick your poison, I suppose.
Geez,now besides not getting the timeshare sale presentation deals I have to stop using the massive amount of cc points I built up too. :D
I actually never even thought about that before.All of the financially well are benefiting from all the ridiculous interest rates the less fortunate pay.I am cleaning up my deceased brother’s finances.He has paid about 380 a month for the last 6 years for a discover card without reducing the balance of 18,000 plus.
K.I.S.S........so easy to say so difficult to do.
JediMisty
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by JediMisty »

RickBoglehead wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:19 pm Years ago we went to one of these, and after wasting 90 minutes of our time vowed we'd never do it again. A vacation is supposed to be pleasurable, and having this hanging there, then hoping it will end, fending off the salesperson, ... No thanks.
I bought three timeshares all on the secondary market. They were fun when I had kids and extended family that I hosted. And so cheap that I made out by using them. But the maintenance companies are voted on by the owners. And the original builders have enough of a voting block to hand over the maintenance to.... Well, I suspect (though have no proof) some affiliated company. The fees went up every year and maintenance just got worse, at least at the one I visited often. Meanwhile, the exchange fees went up astronomically. I went to some presentations over the years. Never bought, but couldn't get out in the promised 90 minutes. I had to get nasty for them to let me leave. Honestly, I felt kidnapped. I kept asking to leave and they'd send someone else into the room. Never again. Never. Again.
Starfish
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by Starfish »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:40 pm Posting my experience on a timeshare promotion as I know several Bogleheads have received the same offer.

I got this offer in the mail a few months ago:

1. Five nights at the Westin Princeville Kauai (for the nights we went, worth $2,000)
2. Rental car (worth $185)
3. $75 resort credit
4. Mandatory 90 minute timeshare presentation

All for $649.

I just walked out of the presentation, 78 minutes start to finish. Super nice salesman, no hard sell. Of course we didn’t buy a timeshare, but something interesting we were presented with at the very end was the following offer to return and do it all over again:

1. Another 5 nights at the same hotel anytime in the next two years
2. 100,000 Marriott points (worth $800-$1,000)
3. Another mandatory timeshare presentation

...For $1,400. I’m actually thinking of buying it...
I keep getting this offer, but I was always afraid of a high pressure sale environment for more than 2 hours. It's good o know that I have nothing to fear.
random_walker_77
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by random_walker_77 »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:58 pm
Lowest price I was offered was $19k for a studio every other year. Plus annual maintenance.

The resale offer is actually not a bad deal, if you were going to go to the resort regularly anyway and needed the space. $3,000 in maintenance fees divided by seven nights is $428/night. A two bedroom unit rented with cash goes for $700-800/night.
yep, for the right person, that's actually a good deal on the secondary market. But my main point is that you shouldn't buy from the salesperson. There's a big gap between $19k and $23.50+fees. The latter is closer to the true market price than the former...

My parents, who used to have great financial acumen, got bitten by timeshare salesfolks. The risk with attending these sales seminars is that, despite your best intentions, you might get talked into buying. They're really good at what they do, which is why they can offer these kinds of incentives to buy an audience. You might not think you're going to buy, but are you certain? In my opinion, that's where having that ebay figure in your back pocket helps. Even if they lower the price from $19k to $9k or $5k, you're less likely to go for it if you know you can get it for under $1k on the secondary market
ryman554
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by ryman554 »

djpeteski wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:28 am So the wife and I take advantage of many time share offers. Every time we go, someone buys. It is not us of course, but even if there is only one other couple on the van with us they tend to be the ones closing. Time share presentations work and they have no idea if you will be their huckleberry that day. The arguments they make are persuasive, but they are full of, at best, half truths. Many are outright lies.
Are you sure the buyers are actually buyers versus plants? Sounds like the time share folks may be pulling the "seed the tip jar with a couple of dollars" trick.
mayday23
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by mayday23 »

I just tell them that I need to leave because I have a tee-time.Normally goes like this:

Me: "I need to leave in 30 mins, 15 mins, 5 mins" for a tee time
Person: "Why did you book a tee time?"
Me: "Because I was told this would last for 90 mins."
Faith20879
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by Faith20879 »

hoops777 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:39 pm ... was being selfish and abusing the system.
That is absurd.

DH and I went to our one and only presentation 5 or 6 years ago. It all came about after I spun a wheel at a county fair booth and was told that I had won the grand prize of a beach vacation.

Now I already knew what timeshares were but never made the connection until we arrived and were rushed over to a presentation.

If the salesperson had said this to me at the time, it would not have sit well.

As to the experience, I was somewhat interested in how the math worked but DH quickly put an end to it. He was very firm in saying No to everything.
ChrisC
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by ChrisC »

random_walker_77 wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:53 pm
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:58 pm
Lowest price I was offered was $19k for a studio every other year. Plus annual maintenance.

The resale offer is actually not a bad deal, if you were going to go to the resort regularly anyway and needed the space. $3,000 in maintenance fees divided by seven nights is $428/night. A two bedroom unit rented with cash goes for $700-800/night.
yep, for the right person, that's actually a good deal on the secondary market. But my main point is that you shouldn't buy from the salesperson. There's a big gap between $19k and $23.50+fees. The latter is closer to the true market price than the former...

My parents, who used to have great financial acumen, got bitten by timeshare salesfolks. The risk with attending these sales seminars is that, despite your best intentions, you might get talked into buying. They're really good at what they do, which is why they can offer these kinds of incentives to buy an audience. You might not think you're going to buy, but are you certain? In my opinion, that's where having that ebay figure in your back pocket helps. Even if they lower the price from $19k to $9k or $5k, you're less likely to go for it if you know you can get it for under $1k on the secondary market
The timeshare marketing model has been primarily to sell/market the product as a impluse purchase -- there are, of course, some exceptions to this: Disney Vacation Clubs and Marriott Grand Residences/Fractional Shares. And it's only been recently when developers or producers of the product have addressed the problem with shoulder season/bad weeks by advancing "points systems." I've been told that perhaps up to 40% of the price of a timeshare unit is embedded in "marketing costs," including commissions for sales people, advertising, free stuff given to presentation attendees, and the $100 typically given to the street marketer per each person he steers to a presentation. When one buys a timeshare off the secondary market, there isn't any marketing costs inflating the purchase price. Even when there is a timeshare that has appreciated in true market value, it's rare that the price in the secondary market will exceed the price initially marketed by the developer. Recognizing that timeshares do lose value after initially sold. some developers, like Marriott, have tried to price support their timeshares by ROFRs or junk fees associated with points, when one tries to buy a re-sale Marriott on the secondary market.

I think eventually there will be a market disrupter that comes into the timeshare industry that will change the dynamics of the market, like Uber has done with the taxi industry or AirBnb with vacation rentals. People who are informed about timeshares can make good purchases, and enjoy good use of these units.
MasCowbell
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by MasCowbell »

For Marriott / Vistana timeshares specifically, I have read that if you buy a unit on the resale market it does not come with the ability to convert into annual Marriott points.

I am curious if anyone has bought a resale property and was subsequently offered the points conversion feature? How much did it cost/was it a good deal?
ChrisC
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by ChrisC »

MasCowbell wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:21 pm For Marriott / Vistana timeshares specifically, I have read that if you buy a unit on the resale market it does not come with the ability to convert into annual Marriott points.

I am curious if anyone has bought a resale property and was subsequently offered the points conversion feature? How much did it cost/was it a good deal?
Your best bet is to ask this question on the TUG bulletin board in the discussion threads on Marriott timeshares. www.tug2.net. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by Marriott points. There's Marriott Reward Points, which is the general reward point program available to the Marriott hotel guests and with added benefits to Marriott Vacation Club/timeshare owners. Also, there's Marriott Vacation Club points which is the points based program for Marriott Vacation Club/timeshare owners. Prior to the advent of Vacation Club Points, Marriott had a traditional weeks-based program, which it no longer offers to new buyers.

Folks who owned the weeks-based program timeshares, now called Legacy Weeks, were frequently given the opportunity to trade/convert their weeks on an annual or bi-annual basis into Marriott Reward Points (MRPs). I think the rule was that if you purchased a resale Legacy Week, the ability to trade/convert into MRPs didn't transfer over to the new Legacy Week owner. Legacy weeks owners, including me, were also given the opportunity, after paying a fee, to "elect" to have their weeks enrolled nto the Vacation Club Points Program. Legacy week owners who "elect" to enroll in the Vacation Club Program retain their benefits and ownership rights under the old program but get to take advantage of the Vacation Club Program. Most would say that election into the Vacation Club Points program was a good deal -- Marriott offered this deal twice and permitted resale owners to elect points. I think I paid $695 for my election and the next time it was offered the admission price was around $2200 -- I don't think they're making this offer again -- as the reason they made the offers was to add inventory to the Vacation Club Points program.

Under the Vacation Club Points program, one can trade/convert your Vacation Club Points to MRPs, but most consider the trade/conversion to be a bad deal. I believe if you buy Vacation Club Points on the resale market, after payment of Marriott junk fees, which some sellers will pay for you, the new owner has all the benefits under the Vacation Club Points program, including trading/converting to MRPs. However, trade/conversion into MRPs under almost all circumstances for both Legacy Week and Vacation Club Points owners is generally a bad deal unless it's a distress trade/conversion, i.e. you're at the end of your annual use time and instead of losing your time, you trade/convert into MRPs as a last alternative.

Sorry for the thread hi-jack.
MasCowbell
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by MasCowbell »

ChrisC wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:09 pm
MasCowbell wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:21 pm For Marriott / Vistana timeshares specifically, I have read that if you buy a unit on the resale market it does not come with the ability to convert into annual Marriott points.

I am curious if anyone has bought a resale property and was subsequently offered the points conversion feature? How much did it cost/was it a good deal?
Your best bet is to ask this question on the TUG bulletin board in the discussion threads on Marriott timeshares. www.tug2.net. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by Marriott points. There's Marriott Reward Points, which is the general reward point program available to the Marriott hotel guests and with added benefits to Marriott Vacation Club/timeshare owners. Also, there's Marriott Vacation Club points which is the points based program for Marriott Vacation Club/timeshare owners. Prior to the advent of Vacation Club Points, Marriott had a traditional weeks-based program, which it no longer offers to new buyers.

Folks who owned the weeks-based program timeshares, now called Legacy Weeks, were frequently given the opportunity to trade/convert their weeks on an annual or bi-annual basis into Marriott Reward Points (MRPs). I think the rule was that if you purchased a resale Legacy Week, the ability to trade/convert into MRPs didn't transfer over to the new Legacy Week owner. Legacy weeks owners, including me, were also given the opportunity, after paying a fee, to "elect" to have their weeks enrolled nto the Vacation Club Points Program. Legacy week owners who "elect" to enroll in the Vacation Club Program retain their benefits and ownership rights under the old program but get to take advantage of the Vacation Club Program. Most would say that election into the Vacation Club Points program was a good deal -- Marriott offered this deal twice and permitted resale owners to elect points. I think I paid $695 for my election and the next time it was offered the admission price was around $2200 -- I don't think they're making this offer again -- as the reason they made the offers was to add inventory to the Vacation Club Points program.

Under the Vacation Club Points program, one can trade/convert your Vacation Club Points to MRPs, but most consider the trade/conversion to be a bad deal. I believe if you buy Vacation Club Points on the resale market, after payment of Marriott junk fees, which some sellers will pay for you, the new owner has all the benefits under the Vacation Club Points program, including trading/converting to MRPs. However, trade/conversion into MRPs under almost all circumstances for both Legacy Week and Vacation Club Points owners is generally a bad deal unless it's a distress trade/conversion, i.e. you're at the end of your annual use time and instead of losing your time, you trade/convert into MRPs as a last alternative.

Sorry for the thread hi-jack.
Thanks. A big part of the appeal for me would be to have the option to convert my legacy week into Marriott Bonvoy points to use at regular hotels. If this is not available to resale purchasers it might just encourage me to go do a presentation.
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willthrill81
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by willthrill81 »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:56 pm
hoops777 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:39 pm I stopped doing this after a salesperson told me that this is his livelihood and you had no intention of buying so I was being selfish and abusing the system.He was right but the timeshare companies do the same.I did that same deal in Princeville but was not offered the second trip with the points.
I have absolutely no moral qualms about doing this. The salesperson told me only 1 out of 4 people buy, which is baked into their decision to offer the promotion in the first place. If it wasn’t profitable for them they wouldn’t offer it.
I entirely agree. If it turns out to not be profitable for them, they would cease doing it. It's no different than credit card signup bonuses and loss leaders. Those offering them should know full well that many people will take advantage of the offer and not buy what the company is actually trying to sell.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
bltn
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by bltn »

After a somewhat unpleasant experience with a timeshare salesman while trying to take advantage of a bargain travel offer a number of years ago, I don t include timeshare offers in my current searches for travel bargains. I might be able to find a deal almost as good, without having to put up with timeshare antics.
Last edited by bltn on Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
hoops777
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by hoops777 »

MasCowbell wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:47 pm
ChrisC wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:09 pm
MasCowbell wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:21 pm For Marriott / Vistana timeshares specifically, I have read that if you buy a unit on the resale market it does not come with the ability to convert into annual Marriott points.

I am curious if anyone has bought a resale property and was subsequently offered the points conversion feature? How much did it cost/was it a good deal?
Your best bet is to ask this question on the TUG bulletin board in the discussion threads on Marriott timeshares. www.tug2.net. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by Marriott points. There's Marriott Reward Points, which is the general reward point program available to the Marriott hotel guests and with added benefits to Marriott Vacation Club/timeshare owners. Also, there's Marriott Vacation Club points which is the points based program for Marriott Vacation Club/timeshare owners. Prior to the advent of Vacation Club Points, Marriott had a traditional weeks-based program, which it no longer offers to new buyers.

Folks who owned the weeks-based program timeshares, now called Legacy Weeks, were frequently given the opportunity to trade/convert their weeks on an annual or bi-annual basis into Marriott Reward Points (MRPs). I think the rule was that if you purchased a resale Legacy Week, the ability to trade/convert into MRPs didn't transfer over to the new Legacy Week owner. Legacy weeks owners, including me, were also given the opportunity, after paying a fee, to "elect" to have their weeks enrolled nto the Vacation Club Points Program. Legacy week owners who "elect" to enroll in the Vacation Club Program retain their benefits and ownership rights under the old program but get to take advantage of the Vacation Club Program. Most would say that election into the Vacation Club Points program was a good deal -- Marriott offered this deal twice and permitted resale owners to elect points. I think I paid $695 for my election and the next time it was offered the admission price was around $2200 -- I don't think they're making this offer again -- as the reason they made the offers was to add inventory to the Vacation Club Points program.

Under the Vacation Club Points program, one can trade/convert your Vacation Club Points to MRPs, but most consider the trade/conversion to be a bad deal. I believe if you buy Vacation Club Points on the resale market, after payment of Marriott junk fees, which some sellers will pay for you, the new owner has all the benefits under the Vacation Club Points program, including trading/converting to MRPs. However, trade/conversion into MRPs under almost all circumstances for both Legacy Week and Vacation Club Points owners is generally a bad deal unless it's a distress trade/conversion, i.e. you're at the end of your annual use time and instead of losing your time, you trade/convert into MRPs as a last alternative.

Sorry for the thread hi-jack.
Thanks. A big part of the appeal for me would be to have the option to convert my legacy week into Marriott Bonvoy points to use at regular hotels. If this is not available to resale purchasers it might just encourage me to go do a presentation.
Horrible deal and a big value loss.The hotel point conversion is just not close to being equivalent.
K.I.S.S........so easy to say so difficult to do.
hoops777
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by hoops777 »

willthrill81 wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:03 pm
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:56 pm
hoops777 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:39 pm I stopped doing this after a salesperson told me that this is his livelihood and you had no intention of buying so I was being selfish and abusing the system.He was right but the timeshare companies do the same.I did that same deal in Princeville but was not offered the second trip with the points.
I have absolutely no moral qualms about doing this. The salesperson told me only 1 out of 4 people buy, which is baked into their decision to offer the promotion in the first place. If it wasn’t profitable for them they wouldn’t offer it.
I entirely agree. If it turns out to not be profitable for them, they would cease doing it. It's no different than credit card signup bonuses and loss leaders. Those offering them should know full well that many people will take advantage of the offer and not buy what the company is actually trying to sell.
In all fairness,if you are a salesperson with a couple kids doing the job because it was the best you could find,you would look at it from a different perspective.I feel guilty if the salesperson was nice and not the typical high pressure shark.
K.I.S.S........so easy to say so difficult to do.
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willthrill81
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Re: Timeshare offer experience

Post by willthrill81 »

hoops777 wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:28 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:03 pm
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:56 pm
hoops777 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:39 pm I stopped doing this after a salesperson told me that this is his livelihood and you had no intention of buying so I was being selfish and abusing the system.He was right but the timeshare companies do the same.I did that same deal in Princeville but was not offered the second trip with the points.
I have absolutely no moral qualms about doing this. The salesperson told me only 1 out of 4 people buy, which is baked into their decision to offer the promotion in the first place. If it wasn’t profitable for them they wouldn’t offer it.
I entirely agree. If it turns out to not be profitable for them, they would cease doing it. It's no different than credit card signup bonuses and loss leaders. Those offering them should know full well that many people will take advantage of the offer and not buy what the company is actually trying to sell.
In all fairness,if you are a salesperson with a couple kids doing the job because it was the best you could find,you would look at it from a different perspective.I feel guilty if the salesperson was nice and not the typical high pressure shark.
I worked in sales for years, and I knew full well that everyone I worked with, even extensively, would not purchase from me. That's just the nature of sales. Those who don't like that should choose another profession. I see no basis for the OP feeling guilty about anything he did.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
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