Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

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DTalos
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Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by DTalos »

For those who live in a gated community, how do you balance access with security? I live in a gated community where there is a call box, but a master code that is given to all residents (presumably because some people are too lazy or cheap to purchase a remote control and simply enter the code at the call box to enter. Naturally, residents are also liberal about giving out the code to friends, contractors and service people (most commonly pizza delivery people) so these guests don't have to wait at the call box to scroll to the residents name and call them for permission to enter. Obviously, this behavior diminishes the value of a gate.

On the other hand, if there is a card reader system (let's say each resident gets two cards) with no master code, and the only way you can enter is via a remote control, card reader, or by calling a resident via a callbox, then residents will grumble that their family and cleaning people can't enter the community when they are absent. There is also potentially a hassle and cost of activating and deactivating cards when a resident moves-in or moves-out of the community.

What gated entry system balances security and access for residents?
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by Gill »

I've lived in several gated communities and found all the unmanned systems are more of a nuisance than they are worth. We now live in a gated community with 24/7 manned gates for visitors. There is a guest list for each resident at the gate. The gate opens automatically for residents by sensing a sticker on the car. Has always worked well for everyone concerned.
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

We only have one gated development (condos) in our town. I know the code. Want it?
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DTalos
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by DTalos »

Gill wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:19 am I've lived in several gated communities and found all the unmanned systems are more of a nuisance than they are worth. We now live in a gated community with 24/7 manned gates for visitors. There is a guest list for each resident at the gate. The gate opens automatically for residents by sensing a sticker on the car. Has always worked well for everyone concerned.
Gill

Manned 24/7 gate would be ideal, but geographically, there isn't enough space to construct a guardhouse.
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by cadreamer2015 »

We have a gate code that gets changed about once per year. I assume our community is marginally safer than a non-gated community, but I also assume that many local contractors and all delivery services know the gate code.
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by Cycle »

Condo development. We have fobs. All entrances have cameras. Guest entrance has a person there 24hrs/day. Guest/food delivery gets buzzed in by phone.

Assume people will get in, ie lock everything up (like bikes), don't leave valuables in car.

We have had people sneak in the gate behind a car and pillage the underground garage. Our staff has also caught people trying this. People are supposed to wait to see the door close now. No issues in the condo units.

If I were a thief an unmanned gated community could be some low hanging fruit, where people leave expensive stuff unsecured
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Mr. Rumples
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by Mr. Rumples »

There is no perfect system. We lived in a gated community in the sense that it was a high rise. The HOA's contractors each had a unique code. Owner's had the code and most unit owners used the HOA's contractors for their work since it was easier in part due to the access. People would still slip in behind others on foot and it was awkward to stop someone behind you whom you did not know. We had emergency code changes on occasion which were a real nuisance, such as when a live in partner of an owner was arrested for abuse and when an owner gave the code to his airbnb guests which was against the rules. The main code was changed quarterly, but folks expected it and of course forgot what the new code was. It provided some security but wasn't perfect. We looked at fobs, but decided against it since our neighboring building had issues with them being lost. There were hard keys to the building also which owners had but most had lost with "do not duplicate" on it but I'm not sure how useful that was.

We had cameras, but the technology wasn't good enough to catch most faces, but it was something. Usually, there wasn't too much of a problem if folks were careful.

I now live in a semi-rural area with no gates. Half my neighbors are retired; the guy next door has two part - pit bulls which you can see through the fence. That's the key in the end: people paying attention to their surroundings. Many of my neighbors don't lock their doors during the day when they are away. Many still sleep with the windows open. Its very different.
Last edited by Mr. Rumples on Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by RickBoglehead »

If the gates are unmanned, in fact there is no difference in crime rates. They provide the perception of security, but no actual improvement.

Adding gates to a community does accomplish the following - it slows emergency response of fire, police and ambulance...

People can follow, and do, follow a car in on the bumper. Codes are widely given out.

A small group in our community pushed for gates for several years. Besides the fact that by "changing the nature of the community" it required a two-thirds affirmative vote of all owners (you couldn't get 2/3rds of all owners to vote that the sun rises each day), the local fire chief loudly voiced that his truck has to stop, stick a key in the box and turn it, and then start up again, up a small incline, going through the gears. He said to add 2 minutes to their response, as well as ambulance and police response. He said that siren-activated gates also require slowing down, and are not reliable and easily thwarted.

We also have 9 speedbumps on our main road, and no one considered the impact on emergency response before installation (we moved in just after these were approved). Fire trucks slow tremendously for these. We have had 1.6% of our homes burn to the ground. In part, slowed response is obvious. If you listen to a scanner app when they call for mutual aid, they say "there are speed bumps on the road" in the dispatch.
Last edited by RickBoglehead on Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Brianmcg321
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by Brianmcg321 »

If the gates aren't manned by security, and residents just hand out the code, just get rid of the gate and save the hassle.
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by pcsrini »

Gill wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:19 am I've lived in several gated communities and found all the unmanned systems are more of a nuisance than they are worth. We now live in a gated community with 24/7 manned gates for visitors. There is a guest list for each resident at the gate. The gate opens automatically for residents by sensing a sticker on the car. Has always worked well for everyone concerned.
Gill
We have the same system, and you can request guest access either by calling the front gate or online and providing the name of the guest and the time of arrival. Same with guest cars that are parked overnight in the driveway.
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by hicabob »

RickBoglehead wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:14 pm If the gates are unmanned, in fact there is no difference in crime rates. The provide the perception of security, but no actual improvement.

Adding gates to a community does accomplish the following - it slows emergency response of fire, police and ambulance...

People can follow, and do, follow a car in on the bumper. Codes are widely given out.

A small group in our community pushed for gates for several years. Besides the fact that by "changing the nature of the community" it required a two-thirds affirmative vote of all owners (you couldn't get 2/3rds of all owners to vote that the sun rises each day), the local fire chief loudly voiced that his truck has to stop, stick a key in the box and turn it, and then start up again, up a small incline, going through the gears. It said to add 2 minutes to their response, as well as ambulance and police response. He said that siren-activated gates also require slowing down, and are not reliable and easily thwarted.

We also have 9 speedbumps on our main road, and no one considered the impact on emergency response before installation (we moved in just after these were approved). Fire trucks slow tremendously for these.
Decades ago I called the fire department when my neighbors garage was spewing flames at 3AM. I watched the fire truck arrive and they barreled thru the shut gate with gusto.
stan1
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by stan1 »

In our community tailgating through the gate is much more of a problem than proliferation of master code.
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

hicabob wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:48 pm Decades ago I called the fire department when my neighbors garage was spewing flames at 3AM. I watched the fire truck arrive and they barreled thru the shut gate with gusto.
Who did the fire department bill for the damage to the truck? The HOA, the homeowner?
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by beehivehave »

The primary purpose of a gated community is to give residents a false sense of security and hence get higher prices for the homes. There is also the snob appeal of faux "exclusivity".
Cameras, alarm systems and a dog are far better security measures and probably much less expensive.
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by Brianmcg321 »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:45 pm
hicabob wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:48 pm Decades ago I called the fire department when my neighbors garage was spewing flames at 3AM. I watched the fire truck arrive and they barreled thru the shut gate with gusto.
Who did the fire department bill for the damage to the truck? The HOA, the homeowner?
This is awesome. Like when they smash the windows of a car parked in front of a hydrant so they can hook up. Then charge the car owner for scratching their crowbar.
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zlandar
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by zlandar »

Put a license plate reader at the front of the neighborhood.

Gates are worthless unless it's for your own home. Too many people know the pass code for gated entrances and most neighborhoods can't abide more restrictive access.
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by FlyAF »

Lived in the same type of place and when riff raff couldn't get a code or tailgating to work, they'd just plow through the VERY expensive gates that would then render them useless for months while everyone complained about how to pay for them to be fixed. I actually found the gates made the hood a target, not more secure in the slightest. Sold the house after about a year, the nonsense was never ending. Funniest part was the hood was just a bunch of cheap cookie cutter houses for people that couldn't afford their dream mcMansion.
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by MarkerFM »

I agree that unmanned gates are pretty ineffective. We spend the winter in a small community with a 24-hour guard. We keep the entry gates open during the day to ease traffic. All but residents are supposed to stop. We have lately had a problem with Amazon delivery people not stopping. The gates now close earlier as a result. I would like to have an armed response to gate crashers, but the liability expense is too high.
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DTalos
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by DTalos »

I think the best part of a gated community is that it tremendously reduces the amount of looky-loo traffic, which then extends the life of the asphalt.There is a real estate agent who cruises the neighborhood periodically presumably knowing full well there are no houses for sales when he enters the community (I'm sure he has an MLS app on his phone and can see none are on the MLS when he drives-by). When houses are for sale, there are agents who post the code at the call box, thereby defeating the purpose of a gate.

If there are any inventors out there, developing an access system for a gated community that balances security and convenience would probably be a big money maker, consider the multitude of HOA's in the USA that are gated communities.
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

Oldest DD lives in a gated community with 24x7 security person. Unless vehicle has a pass on their window, the resident they are visiting will be called prior to being sent thru.

Then, some of the specific areas (hers is one) also have a gate with a code box for visitors, and remotes for the residents.

At the least, the security guard has the name and the tag numbers of those entering the entire development who do not have a pass on their vehicle. We usually have a pass to zip thru the guard station, but we have to enter a code to get to her home.

Works well enough in my opinion.

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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by LittleMaggieMae »

I think unmanned gates are mostly for "show" and basically faux prestige. They might deter the "organized thefts of opportunity" kind of stuff by outsiders. So while the gate won't keep a contractor, delivery guy, or your neighbor's daughter's boyfriend's sleazy best friend from picking up something of value that's just laying out on someone's lawn or driveway on his way out of the subdivision, the gate might deter the group of thieves who go house to house/garage to garage quickly looking for whatever they can resell (or catalytic converters for example).

If I ever lived in a gated community with an unmanned gate with a passcode - and my fellow homeowners were concerned about security - my vote would be to have the code changed every year (which would cut down on some exposure from the neighbor's daughter's now ex boyfriend's sleazy best friend. )
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DTalos
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by DTalos »

Following up on this post from a few years ago, have there been any innovations in gate access that balance convenience and security?

If there is one code that doesn't get changed often, then every pizza delivery guy in town knows the code LOL.

If there are no codes, then owners will grumble at having to let every visitor in.

Are UPS and Amazon drivers trained to call owners from the call box?
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by JoeNJ28 »

I’m sure you’ve read the reports of Amazon drivers being on such a tight schedule they go to the bathroom in bottles. There is no way they will stop and do call boxes they will just do what they did to my SILs community and stop delivering to it.
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by Parkinglotracer »

All the countries i have visited overseas have individual gated houses. Sad.
criticalmass
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by criticalmass »

Write the code that opens the gate near the keypad. Then you have the convenience of entry and the entire benefit of the gate (“Look, it’s a gated community!!”)

Problems solved.
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by criticalmass »

FlyAF wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:11 pm Lived in the same type of place and when riff raff couldn't get a code or tailgating to work, they'd just plow through the VERY expensive gates that would then render them useless for months while everyone complained about how to pay for them to be fixed. I actually found the gates made the hood a target, not more secure in the slightest. Sold the house after about a year, the nonsense was never ending. Funniest part was the hood was just a bunch of cheap cookie cutter houses for people that couldn't afford their dream mcMansion.
Sounds like the gates weren’t expensive enough. You needed the pop up barriers. Attempting to plow through that will result in a destroyed front end plus a damaged engine. And a need for new airbags.
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by DTalos »

JoeNJ28 wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 12:38 pm I’m sure you’ve read the reports of Amazon drivers being on such a tight schedule they go to the bathroom in bottles. There is no way they will stop and do call boxes they will just do what they did to my SILs community and stop delivering to it.
If there is a different driver each day, how would a card reader system work? Wouldn't you need to give Amazon, UPS, FedEx etc., the code?
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by alex_686 »

DTalos wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 2:15 pm
JoeNJ28 wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 12:38 pm I’m sure you’ve read the reports of Amazon drivers being on such a tight schedule they go to the bathroom in bottles. There is no way they will stop and do call boxes they will just do what they did to my SILs community and stop delivering to it.
If there is a different driver each day, how would a card reader system work? Wouldn't you need to give Amazon, UPS, FedEx etc., the code?
Amazon has a system where you can link up your security system where Amazon’s central command can unlock the door for the driver. There is not a static code for the drivers to pass around.
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celia
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by celia »

DTalos wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:13 am What gated entry system balances security and access for residents?
If you want security plus access for delivery when you’re not home, those are two opposites. And even if you want something, your neighbors may not. So the delivery person for your neighbor will be able to access your front porch, unless you put a security gate around each unit.

You could get a security camera, I suppose, to discourage theft. Or is there one already at the main access gate?
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by DoubleComma »

I think what this is proving out is unless it’s a manned gate with a full time security person managing access, gated communities provide very little security.

We had a condo in a gated community that didn’t have a singular master code, rather each household had a code that they could share. This didn’t improve security, but absolutely allowed us to narrow down who was liberally providing access and if an incident occurred between access logs and security footage the HOA could have some direct conversation with the resident who’s code likely allowed access which resulted in the incident. It wasn’t perfect, but it was something.

Delivery drivers, house keepers, pet sitters etc are good examples of people who would need access without a resident home. Short of preventing access, there is very little that can be done shot of sharing the codes.
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by adamthesmythe »

DTalos wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 11:46 am Following up on this post from a few years ago, have there been any innovations in gate access that balance convenience and security?
Dunno. Can we maybe work a blockchain into this?
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by DTalos »

DoubleComma wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 2:34 pm I think what this is proving out is unless it’s a manned gate with a full time security person managing access, gated communities provide very little security.

We had a condo in a gated community that didn’t have a singular master code, rather each household had a code that they could share. This didn’t improve security, but absolutely allowed us to narrow down who was liberally providing access and if an incident occurred between access logs and security footage the HOA could have some direct conversation with the resident who’s code likely allowed access which resulted in the incident. It wasn’t perfect, but it was something.

Delivery drivers, house keepers, pet sitters etc are good examples of people who would need access without a resident home. Short of preventing access, there is very little that can be done shot of sharing the codes.

I agree with your post. If the Board is sworn to secrecy and only gives the code to UPS, FedEx, USPS, trash collector, etc., and not residents, and everyone else has cards for the pet sitter, housekeeper etc, then I guess that would work.

People even grumble when the code is changed. No new owner requests their name and number on the call box anymore, because they just give out the code.
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by alex_686 »

DoubleComma wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 2:34 pm We had a condo in a gated community that didn’t have a singular master code, rather each household had a code that they could share.
The correct answer is not to use a code but rather a RFD tag or a smart phone app. You can then issue each household X number of fobs. If they are lost you just deactivate the 1 missing fob. So much better.
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by alfaspider »

Some security company could probably figure out a smartphone based system that improves security, but there's no way to increase the security of an unmanned gate without adding hassle from the residents. There's just no way for every delivery driver/plumber/dogwalker, etc. to be able to get access without the security becoming a joke.

Only time I could see a gated community being of interest is if I were extremely famous (to the point people would camp out in front of my house). A manned gated community could keep people away from my residence. I sincerely hope I am never that famous.
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by H-Town »

DTalos wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:13 am For those who live in a gated community, how do you balance access with security? I live in a gated community where there is a call box, but a master code that is given to all residents (presumably because some people are too lazy or cheap to purchase a remote control and simply enter the code at the call box to enter. Naturally, residents are also liberal about giving out the code to friends, contractors and service people (most commonly pizza delivery people) so these guests don't have to wait at the call box to scroll to the residents name and call them for permission to enter. Obviously, this behavior diminishes the value of a gate.

On the other hand, if there is a card reader system (let's say each resident gets two cards) with no master code, and the only way you can enter is via a remote control, card reader, or by calling a resident via a callbox, then residents will grumble that their family and cleaning people can't enter the community when they are absent. There is also potentially a hassle and cost of activating and deactivating cards when a resident moves-in or moves-out of the community.

What gated entry system balances security and access for residents?
We have security guard at the entrance for visitor. Residents have arm guard and gate to prevent tailgater. Each resident have EZ tag (a type of toll tag) for access. There is no call box, card reader, etc.
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by DoubleComma »

DTalos wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 3:04 pm
DoubleComma wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 2:34 pm I think what this is proving out is unless it’s a manned gate with a full time security person managing access, gated communities provide very little security.

We had a condo in a gated community that didn’t have a singular master code, rather each household had a code that they could share. This didn’t improve security, but absolutely allowed us to narrow down who was liberally providing access and if an incident occurred between access logs and security footage the HOA could have some direct conversation with the resident who’s code likely allowed access which resulted in the incident. It wasn’t perfect, but it was something.

Delivery drivers, house keepers, pet sitters etc are good examples of people who would need access without a resident home. Short of preventing access, there is very little that can be done shot of sharing the codes.

I agree with your post. If the Board is sworn to secrecy and only gives the code to UPS, FedEx, USPS, trash collector, etc., and not residents, and everyone else has cards for the pet sitter, housekeeper etc, then I guess that would work.

People even grumble when the code is changed. No new owner requests their name and number on the call box anymore, because they just give out the code.
Thinking back to our condo; trash service had the same access that EMS had. There was an override box with a master key provided to those entities. It was the same master key/lock system used by all the gated communities in the area.

Also, my experience might be apples/oranges because it was a vacation property in a resort community. There was a couple full time residents but most were weekend or seasonal users. We didn’t have a lot of delivery service needs, if someone did order from Amazon or similar the greater community had a centralized lock/drop box. For the occasional maintenance worker our community property manager, who was contracted part time not dedicated to our association, would personally meet that vendor and provide access.

Our biggest issue was trash. Many of the homes didn’t have trash service since they were only weekend residents, therefore they would try to illegally dump in association dumpster. The gate did a good job preventing that.
Last edited by DoubleComma on Wed May 11, 2022 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by psteinx »

alfaspider wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 3:13 pmOnly time I could see a gated community being of interest is if I were extremely famous (to the point people would camp out in front of my house). A manned gated community could keep people away from my residence. I sincerely hope I am never that famous.
Yeah, perhaps the best solution, for those who can afford it, is a manned gatehouse M-F, 8-5PM, with individually assigned keycodes (plus cameras and access logs) outside of those hours. Ideally, homeowners could also generate fresh unique codes with, say, a 2 hour duration, upon request.

There's just too much traffic to individual houses these days, mostly at the homeowner's request, to make other systems very practical.
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by ktdintex »

Our gates neighborhood recently updated the gate control system, and the new one is pretty nice. There’s a toll tag reader that will open the gates when you drive up. Prerequisite is having a toll tag in the car and providing the toll tag number to the gate company.

There’s an outside keypad so that someone can dial your home or enter a code to open the gate.

There’s an app so that someone can open the gate remotely, which is pretty nice if you aren’t home but want to let someone in, such as a contractor. The app also allows temporary codes that are set for specific time periods. I have contractors at the house the next 2 days, so I set up a temporary code for them.

As for whether the gate really helps with safety, I view it as a visual deterrent to help keep random people out of the neighborhood. I don’t really worry about that during the day, but it keeps people from driving into my neighborhood in the middle of the night.
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by island »

Many gated communities nearby. A few months there was a crime spree targeting the more affluent ones. Groups of 3-4 often getting access from trails, golf courses behind the properties or within the community, scaling fences in more secluded areas of the community. Stacking patio furniture to break in thru second story windows that often don't have as much security as downstairs. Looking for money and jewelry, in and out quickly, sometimes even when occupants are home and unaware. Some managed to steal large safes! Supposedly South American gangs sending a few members at a time in waves that enter and leave the country quickly and legally by plane. FBI involved. Don't know if still going on, local news maybe just tired of covering it.
Last edited by island on Wed May 11, 2022 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Normchad
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by Normchad »

Gates only stop people who aren’t willing to get out of their car. I’ve yet to see a gate that I couldn’t just walk through or around.
calwatch
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by calwatch »

I have to admit that, sometimes when I take walks when staying at a suburban hotel, I sneak into the non-guard gated communities to look around. Same when I drive for Lyft, after dropping off the passenger I may take a few minutes to drive around and do some sightseeing. The fancy communities where the celebrities live have private security that patrol regularly and station two people at the guard gate so they can take action against trespassers that walk through the car lane. Most don't and are akin to a security screen door on a house where the windows aren't secured.
safari
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by safari »

I live in a gated community with a manned front gate. A guard is there 24x7 and only the guard can open the gate. No remotes, no codes, no fobs. All owners have stickers on their cars. When the guard sees a sticker, he opens the gate. Each owner also has a guest list of frequent visitors. For those on the list, the guard opens the gate without calling the owner. The guard also lets UPS, FedEx and Amazon delivery people inside without calling the owner. In all other instances the guard calls the owner and asks whether they should let the visitor in. This system works perfectly and keeps our community safe.
OnceARunner
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by OnceARunner »

DTalos wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:13 am

On the other hand, if there is a card reader system (let's say each resident gets two cards) with no master code, and the only way you can enter is via a remote control, card reader, or by calling a resident via a callbox, then residents will grumble that their family and cleaning people can't enter the community when they are absent.
I don't understand this part. If they aren't there, why can't they buzz people in through their cell phone? I've only lived in one community that was gated but the callbox called my cell phone and I could let people in remotely.
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a_posteriori
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by a_posteriori »

We have one main gate with guard bldg manned 24/7. We have our own police force but are in the process of contracting out non-police activities to a commercial guard contractor, you know door checks, gate maint., etc. Our access at the several other gates and one lane at the main access is via bar code. It is near perfect. A scanner reads the bar code on your vehicle, bar code stickers controlled, visitors must go to the main gate to get in... The bar code sticker and gate scanner works 99.999% of the time. :happy
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ClevrChico
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by ClevrChico »

RickBoglehead wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:14 pm If the gates are unmanned, in fact there is no difference in crime rates. They provide the perception of security, but no actual improvement.
Agree. We had a case where a serial, violent criminal was a resident of the gated community when they were finally caught. :shock:

I can see it help reducing door to door sales people, loose dogs, wild animals, abandoned cars, etc.
Last edited by ClevrChico on Fri May 13, 2022 8:52 am, edited 3 times in total.
Jack FFR1846
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Here's the downside of the electronic keypad for a gate: Any delivery people need to know the code to get in. There's nothing keeping them from using this in off hours or giving the code to others. In our town, the only gated condo development is across the street from a popular state park. The state park has a fee to enter and park. To prevent this, the gate was installed in the condo development. I can park in that development because I used to help my son deliver newspapers on Sundays (huge papers with huge inserts on Sunday) and they haven't changed the code, ever. But they probably don't care if I and the FedEx driver and maybe an Amazon guy or 2 park in there. They don't like it when huge families fill a caravan of mini vans, take 4 parking spaces and 25 people clod through their property to get into the park without paying.

I suppose my simple solution is to live in a lower crime area and not right near a paid parking attraction.
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DTalos
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by DTalos »

OnceARunner wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 7:34 am
DTalos wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:13 am

On the other hand, if there is a card reader system (let's say each resident gets two cards) with no master code, and the only way you can enter is via a remote control, card reader, or by calling a resident via a callbox, then residents will grumble that their family and cleaning people can't enter the community when they are absent.
I don't understand this part. If they aren't there, why can't they buzz people in through their cell phone? I've only lived in one community that was gated but the callbox called my cell phone and I could let people in remotely.

Great point. I think people are too lazy or find it frustrating to answer the phone daily or weekly to let a service person enter. Service people have even asked me if I live in a gated community and if so, what the code is, to which I reply for them to call me when they gate to the gate. Cavalierly giving out the code instead of having a person call at the gate must be common.

For those of you who live in unmanned gated communities, how often is the code changed?
JS-Elcano
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by JS-Elcano »

safari wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 12:34 am I live in a gated community with a manned front gate. A guard is there 24x7 and only the guard can open the gate. No remotes, no codes, no fobs. All owners have stickers on their cars. When the guard sees a sticker, he opens the gate. Each owner also has a guest list of frequent visitors. For those on the list, the guard opens the gate without calling the owner. The guard also lets UPS, FedEx and Amazon delivery people inside without calling the owner. In all other instances the guard calls the owner and asks whether they should let the visitor in. This system works perfectly and keeps our community safe.
We have a very similar system except that we have a manned gate (24/7) that has two lanes, one for residents with a bar code on their cars that opens a gate and a second lane for all others who have to directly interact with the guard, including Amazon, Fedex, etc. Works perfectly except sometimes when the guard calls me even though I put the visitor on my approved list.
oldguy
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by oldguy »

One of the finest, upscale manned gated communities in my state also has a non-gated service entrance in the back. I don't know how common that arrangement is.
JackoC
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Re: Gated Community--Balancing Security/Access

Post by JackoC »

ClevrChico wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 7:51 am
RickBoglehead wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:14 pm If the gates are unmanned, in fact there is no difference in crime rates. They provide the perception of security, but no actual improvement.
Agree. We had a case where a serial, violent criminal was a resident of the gated community when they were finally caught. :shock:

I can see it help reducing door to door sales people, loose dogs, wild animals, abandoned cars, etc.
On crime it's very similar seems to me to the arrangement in apartment buildings. You can have an old fashioned buzzer (where there'll likely be a tenant who just buzzes anybody in to stop it buzzing), a higher tech version of that (goes to cellphone, has video etc. still subject to everybody in the building being equally security conscious) or a doorman building. The latter creates a real difference, former two are both common, whereas an apartment with just an intentionally unlocked main door is fairly unusual IME, but what they really accomplish is more doubtful. Not worrying as much about wild animals generally in urban apartment buildings (though there were deer walking down my street, in sight of the Manhattan skyline, during the early COVID lockdowns, they could have tried to dart into an apartment building :happy ).

'Gated community' has negative implications for some people. Often members of the national commentariat who live across the way from us in Manhattan write about this, from their doorman buildings. :happy But seriously, somebody suggested 'move to a low crime area' but so much of that is subjective IME. Different people in the same area often have very different levels of concern about crime, and even more wildly varying views of the crime risk of places they *don't* live than some of the people who live there (we bother to lock the door of our house, but that's about it for our crime protection measures, which I think some people from other parts of the country would find surprising or even reckless for 1 mile from Manhattan but it's proven not to be over a long period; over in the City itself I'd be a little more wary).
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