New Computer with or without SSD?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
User avatar
RickBoglehead
Posts: 5608
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:10 am
Location: In a house

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by RickBoglehead »

Lots of people posting "I will never get another computer without an SSD".

Just to point out, if you did find a great deal without an SSD, replacing the drive with an SSD is easy enough for those that know how to use a screwdriver and use directions.

Purchase an SSD, along with (if it is not included) a cable to connect the drive via USB (you can also buy a drive holder if you want). Find the right software for that manufacturer's drive to copy old drive to new drive.

Follow the instructions to copy the old drive to the new drive. Shutdown, discharge static electricity, swap drives, reboot.

Right now, you can buy a 240gb SSD for $30 - $35. A 512gb is under $50.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
User avatar
Elric
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:23 am
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by Elric »

I held out with getting both some years back, but last time around, when SSD only and have never looked back. Quite happy with it and it's been running just fine. Unless you need a lot of slots or have some other reason, I'd also look into a mini rather than full sized desktop. HP has some nice ones (which is what I have), but I'm sure there are good ones from other brands as well. Very nice low footprint.

Full disclosure: I did just have the SSD go in my 3-year old laptop, which was a pain, mostly because I was in the middle of 3 weeks of traveling. Once I got home I picked up a new SSD (with double the capacity) and was quickly back up and running. But both SSD's and HD's can sometimes go more quickly than average, especially with a laptop.
"No man is free who works for a living." | Illya Kuryakin
radeon962
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:20 pm

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by radeon962 »

There is no more significant improvement to the speed and feel of a PC when going from a mechanical hard drive to an SSD. Once you use a system with an SSD you will curse any older machine that still uses an old spinner.

The new breed of SSD is fast but even an older SSD still feels significantly faster than any HDD.
Topic Author
sport
Posts: 9528
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:26 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by sport »

The computer I plan to buy has both a HD and an SSD. IIRC, the HD is 1T and the SSD is 128G. It has an i5 processor. 12G RAM.
mancich
Posts: 883
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:05 pm

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by mancich »

Upgraded my Dell XPS desktop (6 years old) recently with a 500gb Samsung SATA III SSD. Boot-up is like night and day and everything just seems to work quickly and more smoothly. Well worth the money IMO.
iamlucky13
Posts: 2075
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:28 pm
Location: Western Washington

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by iamlucky13 »

lazydavid wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:28 am
iamlucky13 wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:09 am The really popular OS's like XP and 7 tend to get really thoroughly "tested" by exploiters both because they become the high profile targets and because they remain in use and support for a long time. By the time support finally ends, even assuming there are holes left to exploit, not much effort gets spent on the severely diminished and declining number of users.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Since XP support ended, over 1,000 new vulnerabilities have been found. A small handful have been so devastating that Microsoft went back on their plans and released XP-specific patches for those vulnerabilities. Such as this one:

https://portal.msrc.microsoft.com/en-US ... -2019-0708

Which requires no user interaction or authentication whatsoever in order to completely compromise a machine remotely. This bug existed for 20 years, and it was discovered in 2019.
How many actual infections over remote desktop not on a LAN with compromised machines? And for the other notable post-support exploits on XP, how many likewise were not dependent on being on the same LAN as the vulnerable machine or exploiting Internet Explorer, specifically?
lazydavid
Posts: 3328
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by lazydavid »

iamlucky13 wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:26 pm How many actual infections over remote desktop not on a LAN with compromised machines? And for the other notable post-support exploits on XP, how many likewise were not dependent on being on the same LAN as the vulnerable machine or exploiting Internet Explorer, specifically?
No idea, as I stopped using XP almost 10 years ago and don't follow it that closely. I do know a hospital system that got completely shut down for almost two weeks (meaning everything had to be done by hand) because of that specific vulnerability though. However, since you disagree with the greater security community that RDP vulnerabilities are a legitimate threat, here are the 239 currently open ones with a CVSS score (severity ranking) greater than 9 on a 10-point scale (only the best of the best!), feel free to pick your favorite:

https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerabilit ... ws-Xp.html

Just as an example, there is one from June of 2019 where the attacker just has to get you to view a malicious JPG image. Could be in an email, on a web page viewed using Chrome or Firefox, or numerous other delivery methods (like, say an image included in a forum post?). Success means complete control of the machine. This is a Windows bug, IE is not mentioned once.

And while it's nice to try to exclude IE, there are a lot of ways to exploit it that don't involve the user launching a browser. The VBscript vulnerability I linked upthread, for example, has several attack vectors outside of the "user browsing the web using Internet Explorer" context.

But be my guest, keep running XP.
iamlucky13
Posts: 2075
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:28 pm
Location: Western Washington

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by iamlucky13 »

lazydavid wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:33 pm
iamlucky13 wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:26 pm How many actual infections over remote desktop not on a LAN with compromised machines? And for the other notable post-support exploits on XP, how many likewise were not dependent on being on the same LAN as the vulnerable machine or exploiting Internet Explorer, specifically?
No idea, as I stopped using XP almost 10 years ago and don't follow it that closely.
In that case, it seems reasonable to dial down the hyperbole a little bit and stick to prudent recommendations (which I agree for most users means using a currently supported OS) and facts.
I do know a hospital system that got completely shut down for almost two weeks (meaning everything had to be done by hand) because of that specific vulnerability though.
That's better input. Still, a corporate network with myriad devices, perhaps some not very well controlled, does not universally illustrate the risk level for all users.
However, since you disagree with the greater security community that RDP vulnerabilities are a legitimate threat
Please note that I said no such thing. I'm responding to the tendency of this board to treat computer security concerns and recommendations as black and white absolutes of always acceptable and never acceptable levels of risk.
Just as an example, there is one from June of 2019 where the attacker just has to get you to view a malicious JPG image. Could be in an email, on a web page viewed using Chrome or Firefox, or numerous other delivery methods (like, say an image included in a forum post?). Success means complete control of the machine. This is a Windows bug, IE is not mentioned once.
Are you referring to CVE-2014-0301? I think you might have read the wrong date column. The CVE data was updated in 2019, but it was first published in 2014, around the time Microsoft released an update to fix it. The CVE entry links to Microsoft's page on the vulnerability, which indicates it was specific to Microsoft DirectShow and primarily a concern in IE.
But be my guest, keep running XP.
Windows 7, actually. I ran XP for about 1 year after the end-of-support date on a private network with only trusted devices, until I replaced that particular box. I'm still deciding on my retirement plan for Windows 7.
9liner
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:03 pm

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by 9liner »

iamlucky13 wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:41 pm
lazydavid wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:33 pm
iamlucky13 wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:26 pm How many actual infections over remote desktop not on a LAN with compromised machines? And for the other notable post-support exploits on XP, how many likewise were not dependent on being on the same LAN as the vulnerable machine or exploiting Internet Explorer, specifically?
No idea, as I stopped using XP almost 10 years ago and don't follow it that closely.
In that case, it seems reasonable to dial down the hyperbole a little bit and stick to prudent recommendations (which I agree for most users means using a currently supported OS) and facts.
I do know a hospital system that got completely shut down for almost two weeks (meaning everything had to be done by hand) because of that specific vulnerability though.
That's better input. Still, a corporate network with myriad devices, perhaps some not very well controlled, does not universally illustrate the risk level for all users.
However, since you disagree with the greater security community that RDP vulnerabilities are a legitimate threat
Please note that I said no such thing. I'm responding to the tendency of this board to treat computer security concerns and recommendations as black and white absolutes of always acceptable and never acceptable levels of risk.
Just as an example, there is one from June of 2019 where the attacker just has to get you to view a malicious JPG image. Could be in an email, on a web page viewed using Chrome or Firefox, or numerous other delivery methods (like, say an image included in a forum post?). Success means complete control of the machine. This is a Windows bug, IE is not mentioned once.
Are you referring to CVE-2014-0301? I think you might have read the wrong date column. The CVE data was updated in 2019, but it was first published in 2014, around the time Microsoft released an update to fix it. The CVE entry links to Microsoft's page on the vulnerability, which indicates it was specific to Microsoft DirectShow and primarily a concern in IE.
But be my guest, keep running XP.
Windows 7, actually. I ran XP for about 1 year after the end-of-support date on a private network with only trusted devices, until I replaced that particular box. I'm still deciding on my retirement plan for Windows 7.
Iamlucky, you have done ZERO to actually answer the OP’s original question and your argumentative nature has contributed nothing to this post. We get it....you’re not upgrading from Windows 7. Move on.

To the OP:

Solid state memory cost and MTBF rates have decreased so dramatically, that any additional cost over platter drives would be negated by the higher efficiency and reliability. I have owned both platter and solid state drives for almost 7 years now. I’ve replaced three platter drives and ZERO SSDs during that time.
User avatar
dual
Posts: 679
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:02 pm

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by dual »

9liner wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:14 pm
Iamlucky, you have done ZERO to actually answer the OP’s original question and your argumentative nature has contributed nothing to this post. We get it....you’re not upgrading from Windows 7. Move on.
I do not agree with this. I find iamlucky13's posts to be informative. I am also facing the Windows 7 upgrade question and it is good to get an obviously informed opinion different from those who say you must immediately stop using Win7 after support ends or your computer will be hacked immediately.

Other posters on this thread have also asked questions about the necessity of upgrading immediately. OP's question was also framed as necessitated by end of Win7 support.
Last edited by dual on Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Momus
Posts: 1023
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:23 pm

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by Momus »

I love windows 10 :mrgreen:
User avatar
bertilak
Posts: 7838
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:23 pm
Location: East of the Pecos, West of the Mississippi

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by bertilak »

atikovi wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:22 pm
sport wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:58 pm With the end of support for Windows 7 coming in January
What support do you need?
Security patches.
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet
atikovi
Posts: 929
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:20 pm
Location: Suburban Washington DC

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by atikovi »

bertilak wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:50 am
atikovi wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:22 pm
sport wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:58 pm With the end of support for Windows 7 coming in January
What support do you need?
Security patches.
Of all the billions of computers out there, how would anybody know mine was missing said patches, let alone that there is anything worthwhile to steal?
sixtyforty
Posts: 487
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:22 pm
Location: USA

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by sixtyforty »

SSD all the way. It's faster with quicker bootup, quiet and doesn't heat up. Less moving parts to break when transporting.
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci
02nz
Posts: 5555
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:17 pm

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by 02nz »

atikovi wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:44 am
bertilak wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:50 am
atikovi wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:22 pm
sport wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:58 pm With the end of support for Windows 7 coming in January
What support do you need?
Security patches.
Of all the billions of computers out there, how would anybody know mine was missing said patches, let alone that there is anything worthwhile to steal?
No offense intended but it is apparent you have no idea how any of this works, so don't make decisions based on your existing knowledge. Feel free to read up on the internet, but here's the short version: using OS software that is no longer receiving security updates on a computer connected to any network is a bad idea.
atikovi
Posts: 929
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:20 pm
Location: Suburban Washington DC

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by atikovi »

None taken and that may be true, but if the makers of Windows 7, or any other system, released a product with so many problems, they should be held liable. Cars get recalls a few times during their lifespan, but if they were subject to as many as these software products, there would be an uproar.
User avatar
bertilak
Posts: 7838
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:23 pm
Location: East of the Pecos, West of the Mississippi

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by bertilak »

atikovi wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:44 am
bertilak wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:50 am
atikovi wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:22 pm
sport wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:58 pm With the end of support for Windows 7 coming in January
What support do you need?
Security patches.
Of all the billions of computers out there, how would anybody know mine was missing said patches, let alone that there is anything worthwhile to steal?
They don't know any of that. They just try 'em all. Easy enough to do since it is all computerized and automated! If you have an unsupported OS then they know for a fact you don't have the latest patches.

If yours is one of the unprotected ones, yours is one of the ones they get. You might even be one of the people where a bit of malicious social engineering gets them into to your system. They can be very subtle.

If you do any online banking or shopping you have something worth stealing.
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet
lazydavid
Posts: 3328
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by lazydavid »

atikovi wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:44 am Of all the billions of computers out there, how would anybody know mine was missing said patches, let alone that there is anything worthwhile to steal?
There are search engines just like google for publicly-accessible machines with particular vulnerabilities, the most popular of which is called Shodan. Want the full list of every IP on the internet that is vulnerable for CVE-2019-XXX? You can get it in five seconds. Plug those hundreds of thousands or millions of IPs into your exploit toolkit and see how many you can take over. Almost totally automated. Hopefully you have a good router in front of your machine that does not itself show up on these scans (there have been a lot with pretty bad vulnerabilities recently), and you should be good from this perspective.

But in general, the bad guys aren't targeting you specifically. They're putting exploits out there and harvesting whatever they can, when they can. You go to a legit site like bloomberg.com, for example, and get served a malvertisement that just happens to target a vulnerability that you haven't patched, and your machine gets popped. Happens all the time.
User avatar
Elric
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:23 am
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by Elric »

atikovi wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:44 am Of all the billions of computers out there, how would anybody know mine was missing said patches, let alone that there is anything worthwhile to steal?
There's no human selecting potential targets one by one. There are instead thousands of automated attackers quickly scanning for vulnerabilitoes and automatically attacking those vul erable computers. The largest SINGLE botnet to-date consisted of over 450,000 infected machines! And one of the functions of that botnet was to use those 450,000 machines to search for other vulnerable machines. Automation allows the threat to scale amazingly well.
"No man is free who works for a living." | Illya Kuryakin
02nz
Posts: 5555
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:17 pm

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by 02nz »

atikovi wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:41 am None taken and that may be true, but if the makers of Windows 7, or any other system, released a product with so many problems, they should be held liable. Cars get recalls a few times during their lifespan, but if they were subject to as many as these software products, there would be an uproar.
You want to try suing Microsoft for security vulnerabilities in Windows 7? Good luck!
User avatar
telemark
Posts: 2729
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:35 am

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by telemark »

atikovi wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:41 am None taken and that may be true, but if the makers of Windows 7, or any other system, released a product with so many problems, they should be held liable. Cars get recalls a few times during their lifespan, but if they were subject to as many as these software products, there would be an uproar.
This is very true. If you actually read the license for almost any piece of software, at some point it will disclaim liability for any damages resulting from the use of the software, and will generally go on to deny that the software is actually useful for anything at all. In many more words, of course.

Why do they do this? Because people put up with it. Why do people put up with it? It's a mystery to me.
Glockenspiel
Posts: 1096
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:20 pm

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by Glockenspiel »

With. You won't regret it. Boots up in a couple of seconds. So much faster saving documents, opening programs/files, etc. Don't need a ton of space. Can always add an external hard drive if you need large amounts of storage for photo/video storage.
02nz
Posts: 5555
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:17 pm

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by 02nz »

telemark wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:55 am
atikovi wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:41 am None taken and that may be true, but if the makers of Windows 7, or any other system, released a product with so many problems, they should be held liable. Cars get recalls a few times during their lifespan, but if they were subject to as many as these software products, there would be an uproar.
This is very true. If you actually read the license for almost any piece of software, at some point it will disclaim liability for any damages resulting from the use of the software, and will generally go on to deny that the software is actually useful for anything at all. In many more words, of course.

Why do they do this? Because people put up with it. Why do people put up with it? It's a mystery to me.
Not to excuse Microsoft or other software makers' failings, but there's no such thing as perfect software. At least in the real world, where multiple considerations like quality, functionality, cost, compatibility, performance, etc. compete. Inevitably there are compromises. I tend to think software developers have gone too far in the direction of "our users are the beta testers, we can always fix this later with an update" (the Boeing 737 Max might be an extreme example of this) but nevertheless it's a practical impossibility to build a modern operating system that doesn't need updates to remain secure.
TN_Boy
Posts: 1873
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:51 pm

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by TN_Boy »

telemark wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:55 am
atikovi wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:41 am None taken and that may be true, but if the makers of Windows 7, or any other system, released a product with so many problems, they should be held liable. Cars get recalls a few times during their lifespan, but if they were subject to as many as these software products, there would be an uproar.
This is very true. If you actually read the license for almost any piece of software, at some point it will disclaim liability for any damages resulting from the use of the software, and will generally go on to deny that the software is actually useful for anything at all. In many more words, of course.

Why do they do this? Because people put up with it. Why do people put up with it? It's a mystery to me.
Large software systems are fantastically complex. The Microsoft operating system, all by itself, is millions of lines of code. Now add the lines of code in the apps you use, the code running on the backend server(s) when you hit a website, etc. It is difficult for anyone hasn't built distributed systems to understand how complicated the environment is.

You could wish for a world where all the software vendors shipped software that had no bugs, or no serious bugs. In our world you would still be waiting for that perfect software to ship. I do not mean to imply that software developers could not do better. I will say that we literally lack the ability to ship bug free software right now.

To explicitly answer the question "Why do people put up with it? It's a mystery to me?" You can have software with bugs, or you can not have software. That is why people put up with it.

Don't forget that software bugs cost vendors money too. They'd rather have less bugs, and believe it or not, spend a lot of time and money trying to improve their processes.

Security problems are a special case; technical people sit around and spend all day trying to figure out how to compromise systems so that they can make money off those security holes. Their life is made easier by people who refuse to upgrade their systems.

All of this seems far afield from whether to buy a computer with an SSD :D Yes, you should buy an SDD. Big enough for the OS and all the apps you will install.

[Edited to move sentence to correct paragraph]
Last edited by TN_Boy on Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TN_Boy
Posts: 1873
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:51 pm

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by TN_Boy »

02nz wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:09 pm
telemark wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:55 am
atikovi wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:41 am None taken and that may be true, but if the makers of Windows 7, or any other system, released a product with so many problems, they should be held liable. Cars get recalls a few times during their lifespan, but if they were subject to as many as these software products, there would be an uproar.
This is very true. If you actually read the license for almost any piece of software, at some point it will disclaim liability for any damages resulting from the use of the software, and will generally go on to deny that the software is actually useful for anything at all. In many more words, of course.

Why do they do this? Because people put up with it. Why do people put up with it? It's a mystery to me.
Not to excuse Microsoft or other software makers' failings, but there's no such thing as perfect software. At least in the real world, where multiple considerations like quality, functionality, cost, compatibility, performance, etc. compete. Inevitably there are compromises. I tend to think software developers have gone too far in the direction of "our users are the beta testers, we can always fix this later with an update" (the Boeing 737 Max might be an extreme example of this) but nevertheless it's a practical impossibility to build a modern operating system that doesn't need updates to remain secure.
The problem with the Boeing 737 Max software debacle is that the software worked exactly as designed! It was a failure of requirements I think. The use of only one sensor remains inexplicable, and the decision to make the software trim so aggressively is very puzzling -- this wasn't a simple software bug, it was combination of strange decisions. Though I have read articles by experienced pilots who believe a competent pilot should have always been able to sort out the MCAS behavior, even when caught by surprise.
shelanman
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:35 pm

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by shelanman »

atikovi wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:37 pm
sport wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:29 pm
atikovi wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:22 pm
sport wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:58 pm With the end of support for Windows 7 coming in January
What support do you need? I've had my Windows 7 computer for 3 years and have never contacted Windows support. On the contrary, I get calls from Microsoft support all the time.
The support needed are security update patches. I would not want to use a system that was not secure. The calls you get from "Microsoft Support" are not from Microsoft. They are frauds. They either want to sell you something, cheat you, or compromise your computer.
Won't security software take care of that? And what security is compromised if you don't do updates?
All software has bugs. In particular, operating system software has bugs that allow knowledgeable attackers to take over your machine without your knowledge, or to spy on your activity, or to encrypt the data on your drive and demand a ransom. Monthly security patches repair the bugs that were discovered recently that could lead to those kinds of attacks.

Your anti-virus software sometimes can't help you until too late (depending on the type of flaw and the type of exploit being used)

You pretty much always want to install all of the security patches on any computing device you use.
User avatar
telemark
Posts: 2729
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:35 am

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by telemark »

02nz wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:09 pm ...
telemark wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:55 am This is very true. If you actually read the license for almost any piece of software, at some point it will disclaim liability for any damages resulting from the use of the software, and will generally go on to deny that the software is actually useful for anything at all. In many more words, of course.

Why do they do this? Because people put up with it. Why do people put up with it? It's a mystery to me.
Not to excuse Microsoft or other software makers' failings, but there's no such thing as perfect software. At least in the real world, where multiple considerations like quality, functionality, cost, compatibility, performance, etc. compete. Inevitably there are compromises. I tend to think software developers have gone too far in the direction of "our users are the beta testers, we can always fix this later with an update" (the Boeing 737 Max might be an extreme example of this) but nevertheless it's a practical impossibility to build a modern operating system that doesn't need updates to remain secure.
This, too, is very true. Security is a special case because there are so many determined and imaginative attackers and these days, so many available attack surfaces. I would not recommend using any operating system that doesn't get regular security updates. At the same time, it's discouraging to see how many obvious mistakes keep coming back. Buffer overflow vulnerabilities should have died out thirty years ago, if not sooner, and yet they keep turning up. In most industries, saying "oh, we can never be perfect" is not taken as a reason to stop trying.

I have thoughts on some of the other issues raised but they would only lead us even further off topic.
User avatar
bertilak
Posts: 7838
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:23 pm
Location: East of the Pecos, West of the Mississippi

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by bertilak »

TN_Boy wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:09 pm Large software systems are fantastically complex.
Also, when you consider the hardware and it's firmware, 3rd party device drivers, the network systems involved and all the resulting interdependencies it can be hard or impossible to assign blame for failures. Much of that list is NOT the responsibility of Microsoft but can result in a Windows crash. To me, it's surprising things work as well as they do!

Now add to that the deliberately malicious software that the user, knowingly or not, may have added.
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet
MichCPA
Posts: 883
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:06 pm

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by MichCPA »

atikovi wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:41 am None taken and that may be true, but if the makers of Windows 7, or any other system, released a product with so many problems, they should be held liable. Cars get recalls a few times during their lifespan, but if they were subject to as many as these software products, there would be an uproar.
The software wasn't defective, other people designed things to break into it. If someone smashes my car window that isn't covered under warranty.
User avatar
Electron
Posts: 2118
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:46 pm

Re: New Computer with or without SSD?

Post by Electron »

I agree on the use of a Solid State Drive and it is probably worth getting one of the larger sizes.

The life and warranty on my Samsung 860 EVO 250 GB SSD is based on 150 terabytes written (TBW) or five years. If I had gone with the 1 TB drive the TBW would be four times as large (600 TBW).

At present, my Samsung Magician SSD utility program is showing that I have written 598 GB and the drive was purchased in early January. If my calculations are correct, I have used 0.4% of the expected life.

Hopefully the amount of writing will slow down as the SSD was initially imaged with Windows 7 and then upgraded to Windows 10 with a number of new programs installed. Reading data is apparently not a significant factor in the life of the drive. There may be additional factors to consider such as temperature and failure of other components on the circuit board including capacitors.
Electron
Post Reply