Is this new to engineering job hunting?

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FireHorse
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Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by FireHorse » Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:28 pm

My son was graduated as an electrical engineer/minor in mathematics this past spring and was able to obtain a job right away at where he was interned, but its an intern job not a full time.
He discovered that many engineers he works with are consultants, afew of them left the company and afew of new ones coming in. what I learned was that all those consultants were hoping to be hired as full time but companies are reluctant to hiring them.

I am from business world where I used to hiring people from colleges or middle level managements. This idea of hiring people as consultant then possible full time is very 90ish century, I understand the reason of it, that is mostly for expenses.

Some of his friends who are graduated in business or finance have no problem obtain a full time job. It leads me to question whether this is the culture of engineering profession.

randomguy
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by randomguy » Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:50 pm

I think it is more the culture of certain companies or industries than a general trend across all engineering jobs.

lack_ey
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by lack_ey » Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:14 pm

Companies may have more restrictions on hiring full-time (policy or trying to maintain a leaner base of full-time people to keep long term) so they may use a fleet of contractors/consultants to help get projects completed. And then not have a high head count to pay full benefits for, especially if the workload drops down later. It's a lower-risk way of getting people in the door to help on immediate needs. Once they've proven themselves, the best and most important people might be hired full time. Or maybe the company can just squeeze more out of these people while they're feeling the pressure and incentive to perform.

It's not great for the workers but this is how things are in a lot of companies and departments these days.

Dottie57
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by Dottie57 » Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:29 pm

Your son should continue to look for full time job.

KlangFool
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by KlangFool » Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:39 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:29 pm
Your son should continue to look for full time job.
+1,000.

KlangFool

Yooper16
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by Yooper16 » Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:49 pm

lack_ey wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:14 pm
Companies may have more restrictions on hiring full-time (policy or trying to maintain a leaner base of full-time people to keep long term) so they may use a fleet of contractors/consultants to help get projects completed. And then not have a high head count to pay full benefits for, especially if the workload drops down later. It's a lower-risk way of getting people in the door to help on immediate needs. Once they've proven themselves, the best and most important people might be hired full time. Or maybe the company can just squeeze more out of these people while they're feeling the pressure and incentive to perform.

It's not great for the workers but this is how things are in a lot of companies and departments these days.
Seems like a logical next or nearly next step in the further severing of the employer/employee code that was very much the center of our post WWII condition.

Many of us were always at will employees, however benefits and taxes etc were involved. Now we can be at will contractors, maybe paid a touch more but responsible for our own benefits and taxes )both sides in the case of SS.

I would say the next generations need to get used to it.

jebmke
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by jebmke » Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:49 pm

Not unusual to have a layer of contractors in the work force for flexibility. When I was working we used to do this through a third party so the person was employed by a third party. Especially when the economy was starting to slow and there was a risk of decline, we wanted the flexibility to reduce force by shedding contractor positions first before impacting permanent employees.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

spae
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by spae » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:00 pm

What's his field? Most EEs I know go straight into regular full-time jobs, but it may depend on his specialization.

Trader Joe
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by Trader Joe » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:13 pm

FireHorse wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:28 pm
My son was graduated as an electrical engineer/minor in mathematics this past spring and was able to obtain a job right away at where he was interned, but its an intern job not a full time.
He discovered that many engineers he works with are consultants, afew of them left the company and afew of new ones coming in. what I learned was that all those consultants were hoping to be hired as full time but companies are reluctant to hiring them.

I am from business world where I used to hiring people from colleges or middle level managements. This idea of hiring people as consultant then possible full time is very 90ish century, I understand the reason of it, that is mostly for expenses.

Some of his friends who are graduated in business or finance have no problem obtain a full time job. It leads me to question whether this is the culture of engineering profession.
No, this is not the culture of the engineering profession. Your son should continue his job search for full-time employment.

tea_pirate
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by tea_pirate » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:25 pm

Many engineering fields are not as in demand as many people believe or claim (and that goes doubly for the 0-2 years of experience crowd). Now combine that with the average kid graduating with a mid-5 figure student loan balance which means they need a job nearly ASAP after graduation to start making those payments. Companies have definitely learned that they can take advantage of young STEM graduates through various methods of underpayment. In many cases it's contract work (usually 6 months at a time) where the kids almost never get a full-time offer until they get a few years of experience under their belt and find a new job. In some cases it's keeping them on as interns to see how long they can get away with paying them half the market rate for a newbie engineer.

It's certainly not unique to engineering, and I guarantee a sizeable chunk of his buddies in business and finance who got "full-time jobs" are making $40k or so which comes out to $20/hour, certainly in the ballpark of what an engineering internship pays.

In my engineering class (graduated 2015) most of the students with a GPA above 3.0 ended up getting full-time offers. Most of those below the 3.0 cut off have spent years jumping between underpaid contract positions or have simply given up completely on trying to find an relevant job. A few have been able to make the jump from contracting to full-time, and they're so desperate for full-time status that they'll accept the ~$65k offer which is the going rate for new grads with zero experience. It definitely sets their career growth back since those who got full-time positions right out of the gate are in the $85k-$100k range 4 years later.

MarkRoulo
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by MarkRoulo » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:44 pm

FireHorse wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:28 pm
My son was graduated as an electrical engineer/minor in mathematics this past spring and was able to obtain a job right away at where he was interned, but its an intern job not a full time.
He discovered that many engineers he works with are consultants, a few of them left the company and a few of new ones coming in. what I learned was that all those consultants were hoping to be hired as full time but companies are reluctant to hiring them.

I am from business world where I used to hiring people from colleges or middle level managements. This idea of hiring people as consultant then possible full time is very 90ish century, I understand the reason of it, that is mostly for expenses.

Some of his friends who are graduated in business or finance have no problem obtain a full time job. It leads me to question whether this is the culture of engineering profession.
The firm that employs me has a LOT of engineers. We have been converting contractors to regular employees for the past number of years. The IRS has been getting more and more unhappy with contractors that (a) only work for one company, and (b) work for that company for a long time.

So we are seeing the opposite of this.

We *DO* have some folks that we don't want full time because (a) they are expensive, and (b) we don't expect to need their expertise for very long. Those tend to be consultants and they are unlikely to be converted to regular employees unless something changes.

NOTE: My employer hires interns, too. I had some for the past few years. Our interns are full time employees. A part-time internship after graduation is better than being unemployed, but your son needs to keep looking. Roughly, where are you located?

Iridium
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by Iridium » Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:01 pm

FireHorse wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:28 pm
My son was graduated as an electrical engineer/minor in mathematics this past spring and was able to obtain a job right away at where he was interned, but its an intern job not a full time.
He discovered that many engineers he works with are consultants, afew of them left the company and afew of new ones coming in. what I learned was that all those consultants were hoping to be hired as full time but companies are reluctant to hiring them.
Is your son in the same category as those contractors or is he in a separate intern->full-time track? If the former, then he really should get out of there as soon as appropriate. Companies that like to provide some level of job security to their employees need to have a layer of expendable contractors. Despite being contractors, they often work 40 hours a week for the same company for years at a time. However, they will never be considered part of the team, they won't get the same mentorship and training, won't be pushed to take on new challenges to grow, and will be dumped as soon as the company doesn't have work for them. For reasons I do not quite understand, it does seem that very few contractors ever get jobs as full timers at the company they work for (though most I have talked to have indicated a desire for one). While it can be appropriate to take on these roles sometimes (they are not asked to work unpaid overtime, never on-call, rarely travel, and make a decent wage for as long as they are doing work), it is not a track I would recommend to someone right out of college.

If he is on an intern->full-time track, then I guess it is kind of annoying, but not really that far off of the actual reality: what you learn in college only goes so far in practice; it does take a year or so before you really have a handle on what you don't know that you don't know. Personally, I would have used a more dignified title for a college graduate, but the first several months aren't going to look all that different from an internship.

The most important thing is to chat with the folks in their mid-twenties at the company. If they are interns/contractors, then get out of there. If they have a similar story of starting as intern before becoming full time, then I would feel better.
FireHorse wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:28 pm
I am from business world where I used to hiring people from colleges or middle level managements. This idea of hiring people as consultant then possible full time is very 90ish century, I understand the reason of it, that is mostly for expenses.

Some of his friends who are graduated in business or finance have no problem obtain a full time job. It leads me to question whether this is the culture of engineering profession.
There is nothing about engineering that lends itself well to making this a universal practice. In product development, it is extremely disruptive to have folks leaving. As a result, contractors and interns are usually assigned to relatively compartmentalized projects to avoid losing significant tribal knowledge when they disappear, but the mainline development in the critical path will almost always have the vast majority of work done by full-timers. So, the layer of contractors is part of engineering culture, but their role is to take side projects off the plates of the full timers as well as provide them with greater job security (which, in turn, reduces turnover on projects that really cannot tolerate turnover), not to do the majority of the work.

Engineering is also highly specialized. Few are going to consider it a good idea for an engineer to start his career in a quasi-permanent contract role. You should get mentoring and escalating responsibility (as in real employment), or a variety of experiences (as in true freelancing). A position that offers neither will stunt one's career growth, particularly starting out.

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whodidntante
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by whodidntante » Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:09 pm

Good electrical engineering grads will have rich choice and it will be easy to get a full-time job especially if relocation is a possibility for him. However, if he went to a school with a poor reputation and just barely met the minimum GPA requirements, and frankly just doesn't understand what he is supposed to understand, opportunities will be fewer.

mjb
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by mjb » Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:25 pm

So as a relatively early career engineer that is at my 3rd company in 10 years, I would not call your son's situation typical. Hiring interns outright is very typical and hiring new employees with a 1 year "easy to fire" clause pending their first performance review is also common.

For the most part, engineers are either full time or are true "job shop" engineers that have unique skills and are on contract for that reason.

If I were your son, I would be looking elsewhere, especially as an EE. Every place I have worked and all my friends that work elsewhere constantly complain about how hard it is to find and recruit engineers, especially ones that stick it out, do work, and show up on time in a work appropriate state.

sd323232
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by sd323232 » Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:36 pm

mjb wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:25 pm
So as a relatively early career engineer that is at my 3rd company in 10 years, I would not call your son's situation typical. Hiring interns outright is very typical and hiring new employees with a 1 year "easy to fire" clause pending their first performance review is also common.

For the most part, engineers are either full time or are true "job shop" engineers that have unique skills and are on contract for that reason.

If I were your son, I would be looking elsewhere, especially as an EE. Every place I have worked and all my friends that work elsewhere constantly complain about how hard it is to find and recruit engineers, especially ones that stick it out, do work, and show up on time in a work appropriate state.
Very true!! I am also an electrical engineer and we are hiring new college grads every month, some even reject our job offers (i assume they got higher paying offers else where)and thats why my company is always in look out to hire those college kids. Like person above me said, most important thing we look for in a new hire is to be very reliable. You are not gonna believe how many kids just dont care to even show up to the interview. If your kid is open to learn new things and can show up to work on time, he will be top performer.

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FireHorse
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by FireHorse » Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:45 pm

Thanks for all the replays and encouragement.

He just recently starting to looking for jobs. I guess his patient has ran out.
His grade average is 3.0 with major in electrical engineering/minor in mathematics, could also in computer science but school only allow him to take credit on one class as minor so he contribute it to mathematics.
He has excellent reputation among the co-workers. Even his manager said that it is not fair for him that still not hired but it is out of his hand as the person who has hiring power is a finance person.

Here is what he do -
"Analyze raw data from Internet of Things sensors and find patterns and behaviors to base an algorithm off of to detect machine failure. Algorithm design involves engineering knowledge to understand how machines break down, and how the environment affects certain mechanisms.
Other things include: Test new IoT sensors for accuracy, lifetime, trigger states, etc. Design and conduct tests to obtain raw data used for algorithm development or confirm hardware or software requirements".

KlangFool
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by KlangFool » Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:04 pm

FireHorse wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:45 pm
Thanks for all the replays and encouragement.

He just recently starting to looking for jobs. I guess his patient has ran out.
His grade average is 3.0 with major in electrical engineering/minor in mathematics, could also in computer science but school only allow him to take credit on one class as minor so he contribute it to mathematics.
He has excellent reputation among the co-workers. Even his manager said that it is not fair for him that still not hired but it is out of his hand as the person who has hiring power is a finance person.

Here is what he do -
"Analyze raw data from Internet of Things sensors and find patterns and behaviors to base an algorithm off of to detect machine failure. Algorithm design involves engineering knowledge to understand how machines break down, and how the environment affects certain mechanisms.
Other things include: Test new IoT sensors for accuracy, lifetime, trigger states, etc. Design and conduct tests to obtain raw data used for algorithm development or confirm hardware or software requirements".


FireHorse,

<<He just recently starting to looking for jobs. I guess his patient has ran out.>>

It takes months for my son (ME graduate) to find a full-time job. It took 1 year for my nephew (Computer Science Graduate) to find a full-time job.

<<Even his manager said that it is not fair for him that still not hired but it is out of his hand as the person who has hiring power is a finance person.>>

Pardon my speech. This simply means that his current manager is useless. Stop wasting his time and effort on this manager. He should look elsewhere.

<<Here is what he do -
"Analyze raw data from Internet of Things sensors and find patterns and behaviors to base an algorithm off of to detect machine failure. Algorithm design involves engineering knowledge to understand how machines break down, and how the environment affects certain mechanisms.
Other things include: Test new IoT sensors for accuracy, lifetime, trigger states, etc. Design and conduct tests to obtain raw data used for algorithm development or confirm hardware or software requirements".
>>

Does he has a coursera and/or EdX certification to prove his credential?


KlangFool

dcabler
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by dcabler » Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:39 pm

FireHorse wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:28 pm
My son was graduated as an electrical engineer/minor in mathematics this past spring and was able to obtain a job right away at where he was interned, but its an intern job not a full time.
He discovered that many engineers he works with are consultants, afew of them left the company and afew of new ones coming in. what I learned was that all those consultants were hoping to be hired as full time but companies are reluctant to hiring them.

I am from business world where I used to hiring people from colleges or middle level managements. This idea of hiring people as consultant then possible full time is very 90ish century, I understand the reason of it, that is mostly for expenses.

Some of his friends who are graduated in business or finance have no problem obtain a full time job. It leads me to question whether this is the culture of engineering profession.
Electrical Engineer here - Also a hiring manager. 35+ years in the semiconductor industry.

The engineering industry is not monolithic nor are the companies/jobs that hire those with electrical engineering degrees specifically.
All I can say is that in my industry, what you described is something I've never seen or heard of, despite working in a fairly large number of companies of different sizes. In my industry, contractors are specifically differentiated from consultants. Contractors are expected to be proficient but are usually brought in for short/medium time periods when there is a need for bodies. Consultants, who are usually paid the big bucks, are brought in because they have a very specific, usually somewhat rare skillset. But I've never seen somebody brought in part time after college, unless that was desired by the employee for a specific reason (such as working on an advanced degree part time).

How flexible was he on his first job regarding the locality where he wished to work?

Cheers

Topic Author
FireHorse
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by FireHorse » Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:57 pm

dcabler wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:39 pm
FireHorse wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:28 pm
My son was graduated as an electrical engineer/minor in mathematics this past spring and was able to obtain a job right away at where he was interned, but its an intern job not a full time.
He discovered that many engineers he works with are consultants, afew of them left the company and afew of new ones coming in. what I learned was that all those consultants were hoping to be hired as full time but companies are reluctant to hiring them.

I am from business world where I used to hiring people from colleges or middle level managements. This idea of hiring people as consultant then possible full time is very 90ish century, I understand the reason of it, that is mostly for expenses.

Some of his friends who are graduated in business or finance have no problem obtain a full time job. It leads me to question whether this is the culture of engineering profession.
Electrical Engineer here - Also a hiring manager. 35+ years in the semiconductor industry.

The engineering industry is not monolithic nor are the companies/jobs that hire those with electrical engineering degrees specifically.
All I can say is that in my industry, what you described is something I've never seen or heard of, despite working in a fairly large number of companies of different sizes. In my industry, contractors are specifically differentiated from consultants. Contractors are expected to be proficient but are usually brought in for short/medium time periods when there is a need for bodies. Consultants, who are usually paid the big bucks, are brought in because they have a very specific, usually somewhat rare skillset. But I've never seen somebody brought in part time after college, unless that was desired by the employee for a specific reason (such as working on an advanced degree part time).

How flexible was he on his first job regarding the locality where he wished to work?

Cheers
Thanks dcabler.
Yes, he is flexible and will go where ever the job goes

spae
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by spae » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:14 am

FireHorse wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:45 pm
"Analyze raw data from Internet of Things sensors and find patterns and behaviors to base an algorithm off of to detect machine failure. Algorithm design involves engineering knowledge to understand how machines break down, and how the environment affects certain mechanisms.
Other things include: Test new IoT sensors for accuracy, lifetime, trigger states, etc. Design and conduct tests to obtain raw data used for algorithm development or confirm hardware or software requirements".
Sounds like he's an embedded systems engineer with a mix of hardware and software knowledge? If that's so, the arrangement you're describing is highly irregular.

This isn't too different from how I got my start, although no one called it IoT back then. If I'm understanding his background correctly, your son should be qualified for and should also consider jobs at software companies. I was wondering if he had a specialization like power electronics that doesn't easily cross over to software, but that shouldn't be the case if the quoted paragraph is his job description.

MathIsMyWayr
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by MathIsMyWayr » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:10 am

dcabler wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:39 pm
FireHorse wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:28 pm
My son was graduated as an electrical engineer/minor in mathematics this past spring and was able to obtain a job right away at where he was interned, but its an intern job not a full time.
He discovered that many engineers he works with are consultants, afew of them left the company and afew of new ones coming in. what I learned was that all those consultants were hoping to be hired as full time but companies are reluctant to hiring them.

I am from business world where I used to hiring people from colleges or middle level managements. This idea of hiring people as consultant then possible full time is very 90ish century, I understand the reason of it, that is mostly for expenses.

Some of his friends who are graduated in business or finance have no problem obtain a full time job. It leads me to question whether this is the culture of engineering profession.
Electrical Engineer here - Also a hiring manager. 35+ years in the semiconductor industry.

The engineering industry is not monolithic nor are the companies/jobs that hire those with electrical engineering degrees specifically.
All I can say is that in my industry, what you described is something I've never seen or heard of, despite working in a fairly large number of companies of different sizes. In my industry, contractors are specifically differentiated from consultants. Contractors are expected to be proficient but are usually brought in for short/medium time periods when there is a need for bodies. Consultants, who are usually paid the big bucks, are brought in because they have a very specific, usually somewhat rare skillset. But I've never seen somebody brought in part time after college, unless that was desired by the employee for a specific reason (such as working on an advanced degree part time).

How flexible was he on his first job regarding the locality where he wished to work?

Cheers
Very weird. Never heard of such a practice in reputable places. Recruitment is a two-way street. Can a company recruit new graduates from top colleges as temps? Engineers are important in engineering companies when needed. Even right after the dot com crash in early 2000's, my former company hired only full time employees and my current employer, too, all the time.

Dude2
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by Dude2 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:03 am

whodidntante wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:09 pm
Good electrical engineering grads will have rich choice and it will be easy to get a full-time job especially if relocation is a possibility for him. However, if he went to a school with a poor reputation and just barely met the minimum GPA requirements, and frankly just doesn't understand what he is supposed to understand, opportunities will be fewer.
Yes, either this, or it is location, location, location.

dandinsac
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by dandinsac » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:44 am

In my opinion, the key to finding good, interesting work is first being really good at engineering and a reliable employee. Another requirement is knowing people who know of interesting work where engineers are needed.

- Does your son have a profile on LinkedIn? Is it well done?
- Can recruiters easily find him? I would reach out to several recruiters that are in the industry/area he wants to be in. Have them evaluate his resume.
- Does he post his resume on websites where companies look?
- As far as the work goes, did he get into a field that is growing? It’s difficult to find good work in an industry that isn’t growing. Maybe call up an old professor and discuss the work and situation with them.
- Is he located in the right geography? Reading the description, should he be in Silicon Valley, Austin, or another tech hub?
- Getting secondary credentials such as EIT, certifications (cyber, networking, etc.), or completing edX/Coursera may be helpful as well.

Most important is networking. For me personally, over my 30 year career, I have worked for 6-7 companies. The only time I didn’t know someone at my next employer was the first one out of college.

Good luck!

itsgot8
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by itsgot8 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:18 am

Is your son on Handshake? It's a new recruitment platform that a lot of businesses and colleges are moving towards. It would be worthwhile for him to jump on there to help with his job search.

Based upon your description of his job duties, you should encourage him to apply at the automotive companies. It sounds like what he does could be transferable to the direction they are moving with AVs and control systems.

EDIT: After looking at spae's post, your son should definitely apply to automotive companies or tier 1 suppliers that specialize in embedded systems, software, etc.

Cycle
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by Cycle » Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:31 am

I had a low gpa in undergrad. Not horrible, not great.

I was happy to get a contract job at a big megacorp and was hired full time 6 months later.

I then aced a few grad engineering courses and used that plus gre plus experience to help get me into a top engineering graduate program. Worked out fine for me.

We often hire on our interns as contractors while they figure things out. They have never turned into full time hires in our group.

Students with a good gpa, intern experience, and good school should avoid the contractor route unless it's at their dream company or pay is excellent.

Get reference letters if you are contracting, invaluable before an interview to get interviewers past the contractor stigma.
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way

adamthesmythe
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by adamthesmythe » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:21 am

Agree with everyone else who says that this is not normal and he should look elsewhere.
FireHorse wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:28 pm
Some of his friends who are graduated in business or finance have no problem obtain a full time job. It leads me to question whether this is the culture of engineering profession.
With respect to this question- the son should know based on discussions with his classmates; he should be getting good information from the placement office at his school; and he should have gained an impression from his internship what the real story is (that is: are those working there any good, are they looking to jump as soon as they can,...).

He may need a small push to move out of his comfort zone.

mighty72
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by mighty72 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:43 am

It is very common to have interns as contractors. It is common enough to have contractors work along side full time employees. I have seen what you are describing as a hiring manager. This means that the company is trying to keep costs down. Either it is in financial trouble or trying to appease the market or large investors.
I would suggest that your son focuses his energy on finding a job elsewhere

campy2010
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by campy2010 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:32 am

FireHorse wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:45 pm
Thanks for all the replays and encouragement.

Here is what he do -
"Analyze raw data from Internet of Things sensors and find patterns and behaviors to base an algorithm off of to detect machine failure. Algorithm design involves engineering knowledge to understand how machines break down, and how the environment affects certain mechanisms.
Other things include: Test new IoT sensors for accuracy, lifetime, trigger states, etc. Design and conduct tests to obtain raw data used for algorithm development or confirm hardware or software requirements".
If this paragraph represents the word choice and grammar skills in your son's resume then I would advise your son to critically review and revise it before he sends it to future employers.

Specifically:
- data was analyzed how and with what technology?
- "find patterns and behaviors to base an algorithm off of to detect machine failure" This sentence has terrible word structure.
- "Algorithm design involves engineering knowledge to understand how machines break down" This isn't a short-course in engineering principles so the first half of the sentence seems unnecessary for a resume. Change to "Utilized engineering knowledge to design algorithms to detect machine failure..."
- "and how the environment affects certain mechanisms" I have no idea what this means. Would another EE know what this means. If it is important add enough detail to make it clear. What environment and what mechanisms.
- "Other things" goes without saying that this is unacceptable business language.
- "accuracy, lifetime, trigger states" Is "lifetime" an engineering word. I'm not an engineer but it seems colloquial. Colloquial terminology doesn't belong in resumes.
- "Design and conduct tests to obtain raw data used for algorithm development or (and?) to confirm hardware or software requirements". Fix grammar. Maybe add detail on the specific kind of test.

lws
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:12 pm

Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by lws » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:43 pm

There is much being said about the shortage of engineers in the nation yet many graduating engineers can't find full time work.

Encourage him to keep looking for full time work.
If he can not find full time work then he should take part time work until he gains experience.to
Advise him to persist and take the job market as it comes. He will find the job he wants.

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tadamsmar
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by tadamsmar » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:58 pm

Maybe it has something to do with the current state of the economy.

I once saw a plot years ago that showed that engineering jobs for new grad dropped by 2/3 in a recession. I know we are not in a confirmed recession now, but there seems to be a bit of business wariness.

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vitaflo
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by vitaflo » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:59 pm

I've been contracting for 10 years and every company I've contracted at has had probably half their workforce as contractors, either short time or "contract-to-hire". I'm surprised people find this unusual, as in my experience at dozens of companies this is just how the corporate world works now.

Personally I'm happy to be a contractor as I can make a lot more money doing so, but I'm also not looking to be converted either which helps. Everywhere I've contracted has also treated the contractors the same as the employees (from a day-to-day biz standpoint), so I don't see a lot of difference between the two. A job's a job, you're there to do work in exchange for money, I don't see the "type" of engagement mattering much.

BlueCable
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:20 am

Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by BlueCable » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:05 pm

Contracting to start a career is common.

Interning as an engineer after graduation is NOT common.

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FireHorse
Posts: 170
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Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by FireHorse » Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:45 pm

THANK YOU all for your comments and suggestions. With your help, I have concluded that my son's company is an isolated case, the rest of the country are still pretty much the same as usual.
I have forwarded all of your comments and suggestions to him, it is eye opening for him to see that the rest of the country is so different. He is going to update his resume and starting a job hunting journey.
It is so rewarding to watching him so pumped up to ready to move where the job requires, YOU have motivated him.
I, thank you ALL.

sd323232
Posts: 166
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:45 pm

Re: Is this new to engineering job hunting?

Post by sd323232 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:03 pm

FireHorse wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:45 pm
THANK YOU all for your comments and suggestions. With your help, I have concluded that my son's company is an isolated case, the rest of the country are still pretty much the same as usual.
I have forwarded all of your comments and suggestions to him, it is eye opening for him to see that the rest of the country is so different. He is going to update his resume and starting a job hunting journey.
It is so rewarding to watching him so pumped up to ready to move where the job requires, YOU have motivated him.
I, thank you ALL.
Good luck to your son! When we hire engineering graduates we know we getting quality because:

1. Your son made decision to become engineer. It is a hard major to choose (alot of work!), but he chose it anyway. Big Plus.
2. Your son not only decided to become an engineer but actually followed up on his plan and graduated. He can get things done.

This is the type of people we need in our industry.

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