car battery change or not? 2 year old battery

[Jonezez]

Took my honda odyssey for routine servicing and dealer stated I needed a battery replacement.

Help me make sense of these specs from dealer rating of battery:
Rating: 700 CCA
Measured: 561 CCA
Temperature: 108F
Voltage: 12.57V

Recommendation: Battery replacement is highly recommended

However, the battery was replaced by AAA about 2 years prior so still under warranty. So had AAA take a look at the battery and their test revealed the following:

Rated: 600 CCA
Measured: 563 CCA
Temperature: 90F
Voltage: 12.71V

Recommendation: Your battery is in good condition

What is causing the discrepancy in voltage? I noticed the rating is different between the dealer and AAA.

Who to believe? Given the age of the battery (2 years), I should still have plenty of life left in it. The car is driven regularly.

Thank you!

[fortfun]

There isn't much difference in voltage. My guess is that your battery is just fine.

[RickBoglehead]

One of the two put in the wrong rating for the battery... If a load test was done, and it passed, you're all set.

[cadreamer2015]

I’d keep your battery until it fails. I’d also consider going to another service shop.

[Jonezez]

Thank you.

But it's enough for the "machine" to specifically state "Battery replacement is highly recommended".

Wondering if the dealer is trying to pull a fast one on me.

[sport]

The voltage shown is the "open circuit" voltage. This is essentially meaningless at these levels. The voltage under load is what is important. It seems the dealer did not even care to look at the rating of the battery. My guess is the dealer is trying to sell you a battery whether or not you need one. This is an example of why many Bogleheads do not take their vehicles to the dealer for service.

[RickBoglehead]

Let me try again.

If a battery is rated at 600 cold cranking amps, and is measured at 563, it seems to be fine.

If a battery is rated at 700 cold cranking amps (as dealer put in their machine) and is measured at 561, it's not fine.

Wonder what the dealer would have said if they put in 500, and it measured 561. "Your battery is super duper?"

[sport]

Thank you.

But it's enough for the "machine" to specifically state "Battery replacement is highly recommended".

Wondering if the dealer is trying to pull a fast one on me.

If the mechanic entered 700 amps into the machine, then the machine "thinks" the performance is poor. If they had correctly entered 600 amps, they would get a different result.

[runner3081]

Went for an oil change, the AAA service center tested the battery and told me it needed to be replaced. I replaced it... 18 months later when it finally died.

This is in AZ, where batteries hardly go longer than 24-26 months.

[rich126]

Went for an oil change, the AAA service center tested the battery and told me it needed to be replaced. I replaced it... 18 months later when it finally died.

This is in AZ, where batteries hardly go longer than 24-26 months.

Coming from the east coast, I learned that quickly. Batteries here usually die with 24-36 months due to the extreme heat, unless you are lucky to keep it in the garage all day long.

[wolf359]

I'd believe AAA. If the battery fails, they're the ones who would replace it anyways, under terms of their warranty.

If you replace it through the dealer, you will pay full price, and will lose the remainder of the warranty.

Batteries are one of those items that you can change yourself. Get them from Costco. I have my own battery testing machine to check the charge.

[sport]

Batteries are one of those items that you can change yourself. Get them from Costco.

Changing a battery is fairly easy if you can lift it. However, it can be dangerous if you don't know how to do it properly. Always disconnect the grounded terminal first and reconnect it last. Most importantly, ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS wear eye protection. Most people are not aware that it is possible for an auto battery to explode, and all it takes is a spark in the wrong place. I hold two patents on devices that help prevent auto battery explosions.

[scooter]

Most batteries are good for 5 years unless you live in places like Arizona so drive it until it dies or needs a jump start.

[RickBoglehead]

Batteries are one of those items that you can change yourself. Get them from Costco.

Walmart's EverStart batteries actually have better warranties.

As far as how long a battery lasts, no hard and fast rules, but excessive heat does kill them.

[KSOC]

Went for an oil change, the AAA service center tested the battery and told me it needed to be replaced. I replaced it... 18 months later when it finally died.

This is in AZ, where batteries hardly go longer than 24-26 months.

Daughter took her car for an oil change at a "tires & more" chain. She had a coupon for OLF & tire rotation. It was $24 total BUT, the tech & service manager told her she needed front struts & rear shocks. Estimate was $1400. She scheduled an appointment for the following week. She called me & I got a local garage to give me a better price, & to see if the work was really needed. Within an hour of dropping off the shop called & said all was good, & they could not recommend replacement! And they wouldn't charge me for looking at it! I brought a couple dozen doughnuts in the next morning.

[Jack FFR1846]

Service writers are paid commission at dealerships. If you came in and asked if the air filter needed to be changed on a brand new car you just drove out of the showroom, they'd say it looked really dirty and should be changed immediately.

[inbox788]

What kind/brand of tester? Did they use the same type of tester? Can you post a photo of the results (ideally tester printouts -- might have additional information)?

What does the label on the battery say about CCA?

What year is the odyssey? Any unusual conditions, like lots of short trips? Has the battery been drained overnight leaving headlights or interior lights or ever needed a jump? How many times?

Where are you? Extreme temperatures where is very hot in summer can be hard on the battery and when very cold in winter, you need extra power, so that's often when problems start to show up.

You still have AAA, so call them when it fails. It should be under warranty for a few more years.

Anyway, for now, I assume dealer is mistake or trying to rip you off. I'd be weary of other things they do or recommend.

[Kennedy]

I suppose if it would be easier to prove intent, more people would sue mechanics for fraud.

A couple years ago, I noticed a large puddle of fluid on my garage floor underneath the engine area of my car. Took it in to the local mechanic who called me later and said I needed a new water pump. In the meantime, I went back out to the garage and saw that there was a (now) empty jug of windshield cleaner on the garage floor. I had got too close to it when pulling the car into the garage and had pierced the jug. Turned out that the mystery fluid on the garage floor was windshield cleaner.

I picked the car up from the mechanic and never went back. Lying thieves.

[sjt]

Wondering if the dealer is trying to pull a fast one on me.

Car dealer trying to pull a fast one? Say it isn't so! If you can't trust a car dealer, who can ya trust? /sarcasm


Car starts ok? Keep the battery until it doesn't.

[Hockey10]

I once took my 2 year old Honda to the dealer for service. I received a call that morning from the service department saying that my battery was bad and needed to be replaced. I commented that this should be covered under the warranty. The service guy said yes and they would be putting in a new one for free. So, why did the guy even bother to call me? They were going to charge me for a new battery if I did not bring up the warranty.

[inbox788]

However, the battery was replaced by AAA about 2 years prior so still under warranty.

How long did the prior battery(ies) last?

Also, has the car been stored and not driven? How long?

[jpelder]

My wife got a "change battery soon" test from a national chain oil change place. This was 4 years ago. The battery still works fine.

I'll give you the same recommendation I gave her: one day, it won't crank. When that happens, get a jump and go to an auto parts store to buy a new battery. They'll install it for free. Problem solved

[mariezzz]

I'd drive until the battery dies on its own. I guess if you think it would be an extreme hardship for the battery to die, you might replace it, but for most people, a battery dying isn't going to be a hardship - just an inconvenience.

I bought a 2000 used Corolla in 2008. Battery in it was a Panasonic - appeared to be the original. (I read somewhere that Panasonics used in Corollas of that vintage were extremely good batteries.) I drove the car another 10 years and never changed the battery. First 10 years of battery's life was spent in areas where it gets very cold in the winter and summers could get pretty hot. Last 8 in a more moderate climate - no severe extremes on either end of the thermometer. If I'd worried about changing the battery, I would have spent several hundred dollars unnecessarily - and wasted a good amount of time.

[wolf359]

Service writers are paid commission at dealerships. If you came in and asked if the air filter needed to be changed on a brand new car you just drove out of the showroom, they'd say it looked really dirty and should be changed immediately.

I change my own air filters, and especially the cabin air filter. In my opinion, they charge way too much for that service.

I also sign and date them. They once brought me a dirty filter to show me how bad it was - wasn't mine. After that, they've not tried to pull anything. I think there's a note in my file.

[sport]

Service writers are paid commission at dealerships. If you came in and asked if the air filter needed to be changed on a brand new car you just drove out of the showroom, they'd say it looked really dirty and should be changed immediately.

I change my own air filters, and especially the cabin air filter. In my opinion, they charge way too much for that service.

I also sign and date them. They once brought me a dirty filter to show me how bad it was - wasn't mine. After that, they've not tried to pull anything. I think there's a note in my file.

Since you know they are crooks, why do you go back there?

[sport]

There have been a number of replies that suggest waiting for the battery to fail, and then replace it. This runs the risk of such a failure at a most inconvenient time and in a very inconvenient place. In my climate, the expected life of an auto battery varies between 4 to 6 years depending on mileage (shorter for economy model batteries). So, when it gets close to that age, and with our cold winter coming soon, I replace batteries preemptively in the fall. Batteries are not that expensive. IMO, it is foolish to risk the inconvenience and perhaps personal danger in having a battery fail. You also would be risking the expense of a emergency service and having to buy a new battery at an inflated price. If a battery costs $120 and lasts 4 years, it is only $30/year. I am all in favor of watching one's spending, however this can be a case of "penny wise and pound foolish".
BTW, I was an auto battery engineer in a former life.

[Trader Joe]

Took my honda odyssey for routine servicing and dealer stated I needed a battery replacement.

Help me make sense of these specs from dealer rating of battery:
Rating: 700 CCA
Measured: 561 CCA
Temperature: 108F
Voltage: 12.57V

Recommendation: Battery replacement is highly recommended

However, the battery was replaced by AAA about 2 years prior so still under warranty. So had AAA take a look at the battery and their test revealed the following:

Rated: 600 CCA
Measured: 563 CCA
Temperature: 90F
Voltage: 12.71V

Recommendation: Your battery is in good condition

What is causing the discrepancy in voltage? I noticed the rating is different between the dealer and AAA.

Who to believe? Given the age of the battery (2 years), I should still have plenty of life left in it. The car is driven regularly.

Thank you!

I would definitely not replace this car battery.

[iamlucky13]

1) There is no explicit criteria for when to replace a battery. It is your choice whether to do it pre-emptively based on a suggested criteria like 75% of original CCA, wait until the cranking sounds a little weak, or even wait until the car fails to start (leaving you potentially stranded).

2) The test tells doesn't tell you if the battery needs replacing. It tells you CCA (actually, an approximation, when tested at a different temperature) relative to original rating. 556 CCA will start most cars just fine, regardless of the battery's original rating, but a decline may accelerate near the end of the battery's life, so if the original rating was 700 CCA, it seems reasonable to replace it.

3) Resting battery voltage will vary depending how long it has been since the battery was being drained or charged, and a little bit with temperature, too. No concerns with the voltages measured.

4) What is the battery's actual CCA rating? It is usually printed on the battery. Somebody compared to the wrong original rating.

5) Two years would be a short life for a battery, especially if you're in a mild climate. In a very hot climate maybe. In mild climates, 5-7 years is pretty typical.

[almostretired1965]

There have been a number of replies that suggest waiting for the battery to fail, and then replace it. This runs the risk of such a failure at a most inconvenient time and in a very inconvenient place. In my climate, the expected life of an auto battery varies between 4 to 6 years depending on mileage (shorter for economy model batteries). So, when it gets close to that age, and with our cold winter coming soon, I replace batteries preemptively in the fall. Batteries are not that expensive. IMO, it is foolish to risk the inconvenience and perhaps personal danger in having a battery fail. You also would be risking the expense of a emergency service and having to buy a new battery at an inflated price. If a battery costs $120 and lasts 4 years, it is only $30/year. I am all in favor of watching one's spending, however this can be a case of "penny wise and pound foolish".
BTW, I was an auto battery engineer in a former life.

I too think it is annoying to be broken down somewhere with a dead battery. I basically assume that it will last 4 years. Once that arrives, I start looking for a good deal for a new one then replace it when I find one (or just buy it from Costco). Has worked out pretty well. Too bad I can't do the same for the damn starter .......

A

[rkhusky]

4) What is the battery's actual CCA rating? It is usually printed on the battery. Somebody compared to the wrong original rating.

The most important question since the measured values were nearly the same.

[F150HD]

OP - you need to have it load tested. Any dealer can (should) then give a little printout of the batterys condition.

Don't know where you live (you should put in your first post), but if cold climate, its often best to be on the safe side and replace. Esp if you have little kids (walking in cold) or shuttle elderly around (parents).

I’d keep your battery until it fails. I’d also consider going to another service shop.

Can be a poor idea as your charging system (alternator) can accrue damage attempting to continuously charge a battery that won't hold a charge.

[littlebird]

Went for an oil change, the AAA service center tested the battery and told me it needed to be replaced. I replaced it... 18 months later when it finally died.

This is in AZ, where batteries hardly go longer than 24-26 months.

Coming from the east coast, I learned that quickly. Batteries here usually die with 24-36 months due to the extreme heat, unless you are lucky to keep it in the garage all day long.

I keep mine in the garage all day long, but I still learned to replace the battery routinely every 24 months in the PHX metro.

[Grt2bOutdoors]

There have been a number of replies that suggest waiting for the battery to fail, and then replace it. This runs the risk of such a failure at a most inconvenient time and in a very inconvenient place. In my climate, the expected life of an auto battery varies between 4 to 6 years depending on mileage (shorter for economy model batteries). So, when it gets close to that age, and with our cold winter coming soon, I replace batteries preemptively in the fall. Batteries are not that expensive. IMO, it is foolish to risk the inconvenience and perhaps personal danger in having a battery fail. You also would be risking the expense of a emergency service and having to buy a new battery at an inflated price. If a battery costs $120 and lasts 4 years, it is only $30/year. I am all in favor of watching one's spending, however this can be a case of "penny wise and pound foolish".
BTW, I was an auto battery engineer in a former life.

I change my battery every 4 years, like clockwork come late fall. Even though the battery is warrantied for 5 years on a declining scale, why chance it? There is nothing worse than being stuck because your battery failed. Come to think of it, I think it's time for one of my cars to have its battery changed.

[RickBoglehead]

While I don't want to be stuck with a dead battery, I can't imagine changing out a perfectly good battery.

My 2010 Fusion battery lasted 8 years.
My 1998 Explorer lasted longer as I recall, don't have Quicken open to look.

Load tested my 2013 F150's battery a few months back and it is fine. It does sit on a trickle charger though.

[Grt2bOutdoors]

While I don't want to be stuck with a dead battery, I can't imagine changing out a perfectly good battery.

My 2010 Fusion battery lasted 8 years.
My 1998 Explorer lasted longer as I recall, don't have Quicken open to look.

Load tested my 2013 F150's battery a few months back and it is fine. It does sit on a trickle charger though.

Batteries can last a long time, it's the one time that it doesn't that you don't want to find out.

[inbox788]

4) What is the battery's actual CCA rating? It is usually printed on the battery. Somebody compared to the wrong original rating.

The most important question since the measured values were nearly the same.

Maybe they both got it wrong depending on the size and capacity of the battery they put in. OP, test it again before it hits the 36 month full replacement deadline and hope it fails then. At these prices, a small credit from the pro-rated warranty may not be worth it, especially if the battery isn't lasting as long as other options for you.

https://offerup.com/item/detail/481053089/

[Nate79]

Keep a jump start pack in your car. Put a trickle charger on the battery every month or so to keep it topped off, especially if you do short trips. It probably has a few more years of life in it. No need to change it early.

[Electron]

There is a rule of thumb to always wait 24 hours before measuring the voltage of a lead acid battery after any charging has taken place. Charging is typically in the range of 13.5 -14.5 volts and surface charge builds up on the plates. The surface charge takes time to dissipate after the engine is stopped or a charger removed. Some mechanics will turn on the headlights for a short time to dissipate the surface charge. The dealer may also have run a load test which would accomplish the same thing. Either way, voltage readings will be a function of multiple variables.

The CCA measurements were probably done with a conductance tester. The readings are useful but generally not very precise.

The battery sounds in good health to me and I'd probably just have the tests repeated within the next year.

[bottlecap]

It seems your battery is likely fine. If you want to change it before it dies, change it before next winter. If you live in a hot climate, summers can be tough on a battery, too, but you will very likely make it through the summer with a less than 3 year old battery.

JT

[lazydavid]

I’d keep your battery until it fails. I’d also consider going to another service shop.

Can be a poor idea as your charging system (alternator) can accrue damage attempting to continuously charge a battery that won't hold a charge.

Agreed. This used to not be a big deal, because the part of the alternator that would fail (the regulator) was cheap and easily replaceable. In most cases it was a 3" long module covered in black plastic that came out by removing two screws, and cost around $10 if memory serves. But it's been a VERY long time since I've seen an alternator that has not had this component completely integrated. So if you run for a while with a weak battery, you're out a couple hundred bucks for a new alternator.

[motorcyclesarecool]

If it were an airplane or a boat, I’d say replace it. Since it’s a car, I’d run to failure. Unless I lived in or commuted through a violent area. If I lived there, I’d replace my battery annually.

[rkhusky]

My batteries always seemed to die on the coldest day of the year, while it was dark and snowing, after coming out of work and finding my car wouldn't start in the middle of a near-empty parking lot. Some sort of pre-failure signal would have been much appreciated, so that I could replace the battery in the comfort of my garage.

[HoosierJim]

Car batteries tend to hold on to the "one last start" thus leaving you stranded with no notice - meaning the car starts and sounds like strong cranking but will never again. One trick is to start your car 3 times in a row every once in a while - if the 3rd start is slow cranking - you are on the verge of failure.

I've been noticing more and more cars that shutoff at stop lights and restart when driver wants to go - wondering how those fare with battery life in bad climates?

[lazydavid]

I've been noticing more and more cars that shutoff at stop lights and restart when driver wants to go - wondering how those fare with battery life in bad climates?

They don't require a ton of power to re-start, for a couple of reasons. First, and most obviously, the engine is typically warm. It's MUCH harder to start a cold engine than a warm one, and batteries are typically sized so they have enough current for cold starts. Warm re-starts are no big deal.

Second, auto start/stop equipped cars typically use AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries, which are more tolerant of the increased cycling.

Finally, some (but not all) of these systems are designed such that they stop with X number of cylinders (depending on engine layout) at or just past Top Dead Center, with an air/fuel charge in the chamber. The sparkplugs then assist the starter in the re-start process.

[Omalley]

In my experience, most batteries will provide some sort of sign (hard cranking) before they die completely. The key is recognizing when the vehicle is starting differently. In most cases, my vehicles usually give one or two hard starts indicating that the battery needs to be replaced. I keep the correct sized wrench and flashlight in the glove box so I can buy/replace the battery that day in the store parking lot. After many battery replacements over the years, I can change most in 2-3 minutes.

If you are unsure of how to change your battery, read up on the process or watch a few on-line videos. Then go to your car and practice by removing/installing the battery a couple of times. This will give you confidence when the battery does eventually die. As was mentioned earlier, most car part stores will install the battery for you at no charge as well.

In the past few years, I have had the best luck with the car batteries from Wal-Mart with them normally lasting a few years beyond the expected timeline.

[dm200]

My experience (over many decades) with car batteries:

1. They almost always last just a short time after warranty has expired

2. Especially as cold weather approaches, when a battery has any degree of failing to hold a full charge, it has NEVER made sense to charge up the battery in hopes of getting some additional life. I have ALWAYS needed to replace the battery soon.

3. As the end of its useful life approaches, shop around for a good deal (both financially and a quality battery) and replace it. Often, when "stuck" with a bad/failed battery - you often end up with spending more money and/or having a less than optimum battery.

4. When I have a choice for a replacement battery, I almost always choose one with a longer warranty and more capacity.

I also read things that recommend getting a battery that has not been sitting for a long time - waiting to be purchased.

[finite_difference]

Service writers are paid commission at dealerships. If you came in and asked if the air filter needed to be changed on a brand new car you just drove out of the showroom, they'd say it looked really dirty and should be changed immediately.

Also, complain to your automaker’s HQ if your dealership tries to fleece you. If nobody complains, then there’s nothing they can do.

[Jags4186]

Autozone will install a new battery for free for you. I give the guy $10. Always buy online with coupon and through a cashback portal.

[dm200]

Autozone will install a new battery for free for you. I give the guy $10. Always buy online with coupon and through a cashback portal.

CarQuest will do the same. I don't give the guy/gal (yes one employee is female and does/helps with such matters) anything. They also (help) install wiper blades.

Yesterday - I bought four car floormats for one of our cars - and they were stapled together so tightly/strongly that I needed to get their help in removing those two staples.

Too bad Costco does not install car batteries! I wonder why??

[michaelingp]

BTW, I was an auto battery engineer in a former life.

Maybe you can answer a question I have. In the "old" days, testing a car battery involved putting a load on it similar to starting the car, i.e. 100's of amps. This involved a pretty big testing device, and a lot of heat and a bit of smoke. The last time I went to a dealer (OK, many years ago), a guy came by with a little hand-held device which he claimed tested the starter battery. How can this be?