Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

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adimoron
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Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by adimoron »

Hi All,

I have a Honda Civic that I bought new in 2015. I have 100k miles on it now. I maintain it really well and It has never given me any issues at all. My wife and I are expecting and will have a baby soon. There is something that has been bothering me and wanted to get your thoughts.

I had an accident 2 years ago - Nothing crazy. I bumped into a car from behind at 15mph and the seat belt was deployed (not the airbags). I got everything fixed.

Whats bothering me: Given that the seatbelts were deployed, should I just replace my car ? - I ask this only as I am concerned about safety. Am I overthinking here ?

Appreciate your responses.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by stoptothink »

adimoron wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:50 pm
Whats bothering me: Given that the seatbelts were deployed, should I just replace my car ? - I ask this only as I am concerned about safety. Am I overthinking here ?
No. Yes.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ?

Post by curmudgeon »

adimoron wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:50 pm Hi All,

I have a Honda Civic that I bought new in 2015. I have 100k miles on it now. I maintain it really well and It has never given me any issues at all. My wife and I are expecting and will have a baby soon. There is something that has been bothering me and wanted to get your thoughts.

I had an accident 2 years ago - Nothing crazy. I bumped into a car from behind at 15mph and the seat belt was deployed (not the airbags). I got everything fixed.

Whats bothering me: Given that the seatbelts were deployed, should I just replace my car ? - I ask this only as I am concerned about safety. Am I overthinking here ?

Appreciate your responses.
Way overthinking. If your Civic is a 2-door, you might think about replacing because of the inconvenience of getting the baby in/out of the carseat in the back seat, but otherwise I'd leave things be until you want to replace for other reasons.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by adimoron »

stoptothink wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:56 pm
adimoron wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:50 pm
Whats bothering me: Given that the seatbelts were deployed, should I just replace my car ? - I ask this only as I am concerned about safety. Am I overthinking here ?
No. Yes.
Thank you!
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adimoron
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ?

Post by adimoron »

curmudgeon wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:56 pm
adimoron wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:50 pm Hi All,

I have a Honda Civic that I bought new in 2015. I have 100k miles on it now. I maintain it really well and It has never given me any issues at all. My wife and I are expecting and will have a baby soon. There is something that has been bothering me and wanted to get your thoughts.

I had an accident 2 years ago - Nothing crazy. I bumped into a car from behind at 15mph and the seat belt was deployed (not the airbags). I got everything fixed.

Whats bothering me: Given that the seatbelts were deployed, should I just replace my car ? - I ask this only as I am concerned about safety. Am I overthinking here ?

Appreciate your responses.
Way overthinking. If your Civic is a 2-door, you might think about replacing because of the inconvenience of getting the baby in/out of the carseat in the back seat, but otherwise I'd leave things be until you want to replace for other reasons.
I have the 4 door Civic. Thank you for replying !
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by JoeRetire »

adimoron wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:50 pm I had an accident 2 years ago - Nothing crazy. I bumped into a car from behind at 15mph and the seat belt was deployed (not the airbags). I got everything fixed.
What does "the seat belt was deployed" mean?

If it means that you were in an accident, and the belts' pretensioner or locking retractor kicked in, the seatbelts (not the car) should be replaced.

Seat belts, car seats and air bags, are considered by the NHTSA to be single-use items. Seat belts are designed to work just once. After an accident, the ability of pretensioners and retractors to function correctly may be compromised.

Check your owners manual. Some manufacturers recommend replacing all belts after an accident, even if passengers weren't in those positions during the accident; others don't. If the manual doesn't clearly spell things out, check with a dealership.

Don't take chances. The car is fine. If the seat belts were replaced, then you are fine.
Last edited by JoeRetire on Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by adimoron »

JoeRetire wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:08 pm
adimoron wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:50 pm I had an accident 2 years ago - Nothing crazy. I bumped into a car from behind at 15mph and the seat belt was deployed (not the airbags). I got everything fixed.
What does "the seat belt was deployed" mean?
The seat belt was locked as a result of the impact. The airbag was not deployed (given the low speed impact)
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (car).
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by adimoron »

JoeRetire wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:08 pm
adimoron wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:50 pm I had an accident 2 years ago - Nothing crazy. I bumped into a car from behind at 15mph and the seat belt was deployed (not the airbags). I got everything fixed.
What does "the seat belt was deployed" mean?

If it means that you were in an accident, and the belts' pretensioner or locking retractor kicked in, the seatbelts (not the car) should be replaced.

Seat belts, car seats and air bags, are considered by the NHTSA to be single-use items. Seat belts are designed to work just once. After an accident, the ability of pretensioners and retractors to function correctly may be compromised.

Check your owners manual. Some manufacturers recommend replacing all belts after an accident, even if passengers weren't in those positions during the accident; others don't. If the manual doesn't clearly spell things out, check with a dealership.

Don't take chances. The car is fine. If the seat belts were replaced, then you are fine.
Thanks Joe. Appreciate your input. Will definitely check the manual. I got everything fixed after the accident (including seat belts). But will check once again.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by brokendirtdart »

adimoron wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:08 pm
adimoron wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:50 pm I had an accident 2 years ago - Nothing crazy. I bumped into a car from behind at 15mph and the seat belt was deployed (not the airbags). I got everything fixed.
What does "the seat belt was deployed" mean?
The seat belt was locked as a result of the impact. The airbag was not deployed (given the low speed impact)
The seatbelt locking is a very normal thing under many conditions in just about every vehicle. It simply prevents the belt from loosening up if you get in a crash, go over a bump, or do something unusual. On one of my work trucks, it does it probably a dozen times during the course of the day driving over somewhat rough terrain.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by Starfish »

adimoron wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:08 pm
adimoron wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:50 pm I had an accident 2 years ago - Nothing crazy. I bumped into a car from behind at 15mph and the seat belt was deployed (not the airbags). I got everything fixed.
What does "the seat belt was deployed" mean?
The seat belt was locked as a result of the impact. The airbag was not deployed (given the low speed impact)
My seat belt locks like 10 times a day.... Every time I pull on it other than very slow at a special angle.

I am not sure if available in US but rotating car seat is great, even in a 4 doors car.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by Watty »

I agree with the prior comments that the car should be fine if it was repaired correctly.

It would be good to double check to see if that car was involved with the airbag recalls and you were not notified for some reason.

You also might want to run the numbers though on how much it would cost to replace the car with a new one that has some of the new advanced safety features. It might not cost as much as you might think because cars like Hondas and Toyotas depreciate so slowly.

My car buying strategy is to buy modest cars like small Toyotas and Hondas that do not depreciate quickly and have a good reliability reputation then sell then when they get to be about ten years old or have over 100k miles.

For example I bought a new Toyota Corolla last year for about $17,000. I do not drive a lot of miles so unless I get unlucky I expect to be able to drive it for ten years (120 months) with limited non-routine maintenance. If I can sell it for $5,000 then that will have cost me $12,000 in depreciation or $100 a month.

The downside of a car depreciating slowly is that even with it ten years old it will still be depreciating. In made up numbers if it depreciates $600 in year 11 and there is also $600 in non-routine maintenance then that $1,200 would cost me the same $100 a month that it cost me for the first ten years.

Ther other operating cost for things like gas, routine maintenance, tires, insurance etc will be roughly the same with whatever age car you have.

Those numbers are obviously a bit contrived but replacing a car when it get to be "middle aged" does not have to be terribly expensive if you wanted to get the newer advanced safety features.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by inbox788 »

adimoron wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 pmThe seat belt was locked as a result of the impact. The airbag was not deployed (given the low speed impact)
Which seats had passengers? Were any seatbelt and/or tensioners replaced after the accident?

Test all the belts by giving them a jerk. Are they all working?
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Anyway, just drive safely and defensively and don't sweat it.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by RickBoglehead »

Many of the respondents are conflating (been waiting to use that word) two different things.

Everyone has had a seatbelt lock, and not extend further until you release the tension and let it go back in. What the OP is describing is a seatbelt pretensioner, which has to be replaced, as does the belt.

The idea of a pretensioner is to tighten up any slack in the belt webbing in the event of a crash. Whereas the conventional locking mechanism in a retractor keeps the belt from extending any farther, the pretensioner actually pulls in on the belt. This force helps move the passenger into the optimum crash position in his or her seat. Pretensioners normally work together with conventional locking mechanisms, not in place of them.

There are a number of different pretensioner systems on the market.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by adimoron »

Watty wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:35 pm I agree with the prior comments that the car should be fine if it was repaired correctly.

It would be good to double check to see if that car was involved with the airbag recalls and you were not notified for some reason.

You also might want to run the numbers though on how much it would cost to replace the car with a new one that has some of the new advanced safety features. It might not cost as much as you might think because cars like Hondas and Toyotas depreciate so slowly.

My car buying strategy is to buy modest cars like small Toyotas and Hondas that do not depreciate quickly and have a good reliability reputation then sell then when they get to be about ten years old or have over 100k miles.

For example I bought a new Toyota Corolla last year for about $17,000. I do not drive a lot of miles so unless I get unlucky I expect to be able to drive it for ten years (120 months) with limited non-routine maintenance. If I can sell it for $5,000 then that will have cost me $12,000 in depreciation or $100 a month.

The downside of a car depreciating slowly is that even with it ten years old it will still be depreciating. In made up numbers if it depreciates $600 in year 11 and there is also $600 in non-routine maintenance then that $1,200 would cost me the same $100 a month that it cost me for the first ten years.

Ther other operating cost for things like gas, routine maintenance, tires, insurance etc will be roughly the same with whatever age car you have.

Those numbers are obviously a bit contrived but replacing a car when it get to be "middle aged" does not have to be terribly expensive if you wanted to get the newer advanced safety features.
Thanks. I did get it fully repaired.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by adimoron »

RickBoglehead wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:39 pm Many of the respondents are conflating (been waiting to use that word) two different things.

Everyone has had a seatbelt lock, and not extend further until you release the tension and let it go back in. What the OP is describing is a seatbelt pretensioner, which has to be replaced, as does the belt.

The idea of a pretensioner is to tighten up any slack in the belt webbing in the event of a crash. Whereas the conventional locking mechanism in a retractor keeps the belt from extending any farther, the pretensioner actually pulls in on the belt. This force helps move the passenger into the optimum crash position in his or her seat. Pretensioners normally work together with conventional locking mechanisms, not in place of them.

There are a number of different pretensioner systems on the market.
Thats correct. Thank you for clarifying. Wasnt sure about the terminology.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by adimoron »

inbox788 wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:26 pm
adimoron wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 pmThe seat belt was locked as a result of the impact. The airbag was not deployed (given the low speed impact)
Which seats had passengers? Were any seatbelt and/or tensioners replaced after the accident?

Test all the belts by giving them a jerk. Are they all working?
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technica ... ident.html

Anyway, just drive safely and defensively and don't sweat it.
Yes. They were replaced.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by Cycle »

If you care about safety of your child, don't drive (and don't own a pool). After 4 years old, cars are the number one cause of children deaths, before that it's drowning.

I rarely drive my infant anywhere since we live in a walkable neighborhood on a car free street.

As parents it is your responsibility to shield them from unnecessary risk. When I see a parent loading a child into a car, I feel bad for the child.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by adimoron »

Cycle wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:16 am If you care about safety of your child, don't drive (and don't own a pool). After 4 years old, cars are the number one cause of children deaths, before that it's drowning.

I rarely drive my infant anywhere since we live in a walkable neighborhood on a car free street.

As parents it is your responsibility to shield them from unnecessary risk.
Good advise. I live in a neighborhood where there is no option but to drive.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by RickBoglehead »

Cycle wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:16 am If you care about safety of your child, don't drive (and don't own a pool). After 4 years old, cars are the number one cause of children deaths, before that it's drowning.

I rarely drive my infant anywhere since we live in a walkable neighborhood on a car free street.

As parents it is your responsibility to shield them from unnecessary risk. When I see a parent loading a child into a car, I feel bad for the child.
Going through life like this would be concerning to me. So you never go on vacation? Never visit family? Aren't going to take your child to pre-school?
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by Cycle »

adimoron wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:18 am
Cycle wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:16 am If you care about safety of your child, don't drive (and don't own a pool). After 4 years old, cars are the number one cause of children deaths, before that it's drowning.

I rarely drive my infant anywhere since we live in a walkable neighborhood on a car free street.

As parents it is your responsibility to shield them from unnecessary risk.
Good advise. I live in a neighborhood where there is no option but to drive.
I had to move to a condo to avoid this risk, which wasn't easy or optimal with an infant keeping us busy. Recently left a very nice South Minneapolis neighborhood full of single family homes and duplexes.

four people have been killed by cars within a mile of my old home in the last year. Two teens were just run over, one is on a ventilator. Cars are good business for the small casket industry.

BTW my two cents I would keep the Civic. Anything that concerns you here can be replaced with original Honda parts.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by Cycle »

RickBoglehead wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:23 am
Cycle wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:16 am If you care about safety of your child, don't drive (and don't own a pool). After 4 years old, cars are the number one cause of children deaths, before that it's drowning.

I rarely drive my infant anywhere since we live in a walkable neighborhood on a car free street.

As parents it is your responsibility to shield them from unnecessary risk. When I see a parent loading a child into a car, I feel bad for the child.
Going through life like this would be concerning to me. So you never go on vacation? Never visit family? Aren't going to take your child to pre-school?
My child's daycare/preschool is on the pedestrian mall 100 ft from my building

For vacation, we can walk to the train which gets us to the airport which gets us to anywhere in the world. We are going to Utrecht in the spring, where responsible parents were able to defeat the car culture.

There is a bus station three blocks from me that we can take to one family member, 4hr direct bus. The other lives near a CTA L train station, so we get there without stepping foot in a car.

We visit one elderly parent by car, but our miles driven is very low, so our child's exposure to the risk of death by car is much lower than most Americans.

Cars are the low hanging fruit to pick when reducing your child's exposure to risk. But if you want the white picket fence, you need to leave that fruit on the tree.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by adimoron »

Cycle wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:26 am
RickBoglehead wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:23 am
Cycle wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:16 am If you care about safety of your child, don't drive (and don't own a pool). After 4 years old, cars are the number one cause of children deaths, before that it's drowning.

I rarely drive my infant anywhere since we live in a walkable neighborhood on a car free street.

As parents it is your responsibility to shield them from unnecessary risk. When I see a parent loading a child into a car, I feel bad for the child.
Going through life like this would be concerning to me. So you never go on vacation? Never visit family? Aren't going to take your child to pre-school?
My child's daycare/preschool is on the pedestrian mall 100 ft from my building

For vacation, we can walk to the train which gets us to the airport which gets us to anywhere in the world. We are going to Utrecht in the spring, where responsible parents were able to defeat the car culture.

There is a bus station three blocks from me that we can take to one family member, 4hr direct bus. The other lives near a CTA L train station, so we get there without stepping foot in a car.

We visit one elderly parent by car, but our miles driven is very low, so our child's exposure to the risk of death by car is much lower than most Americans.

Cars are the low hanging fruit to pick when reducing your child's exposure to risk. But if you want the white picket fence, you need to leave that fruit on the tree.
Thanks for your suggestions. I think if we all lived in Europe we would not need a car at all. Unfortunately not everyone is as lucky as you to live in a city with great transportation. We live where we work and outside of major cities the public transportation in the US sucks (as I believe even you would agree).
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by oldfatguy »

Cycle wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:16 am If you care about safety of your child, don't drive (and don't own a pool). After 4 years old, cars are the number one cause of children deaths, before that it's drowning.
Or ... make sure your child is always in a properly installed and adjusted car seat, and teach them how to swim. You can never eliminate risk, but it seems a little extreme to avoid cars and water.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by adamthesmythe »

I thought seat belts had these little plastic buttons sewn on that indicate when they need to be replaced.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

adamthesmythe wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:51 am I thought seat belts had these little plastic buttons sewn on that indicate when they need to be replaced.
Those are simply to stop the buckle from falling down to the floor when you remove it. I had one fall out in my car. I replaced it with a rivet and washer.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by Cycle »

oldfatguy wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:36 am
Cycle wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:16 am If you care about safety of your child, don't drive (and don't own a pool). After 4 years old, cars are the number one cause of children deaths, before that it's drowning.
Or ... make sure your child is always in a properly installed and adjusted car seat, and teach them how to swim. You can never eliminate risk, but it seems a little extreme to avoid cars and water.
You can greatly reduce these risks. Cars arent required in many neighborhoods in the US, most people pick the leafy lawns and picket fence and associated risk of death by auto.

There is nothing extreme about living in a dense walkable neighborhood. When I walk my kid to the pool, there is no 5pt harness required
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by Valuethinker »

Cycle wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:51 am
oldfatguy wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:36 am
Cycle wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:16 am If you care about safety of your child, don't drive (and don't own a pool). After 4 years old, cars are the number one cause of children deaths, before that it's drowning.
Or ... make sure your child is always in a properly installed and adjusted car seat, and teach them how to swim. You can never eliminate risk, but it seems a little extreme to avoid cars and water.
You can greatly reduce these risks. Cars arent required in many neighborhoods in the US, most people pick the leafy lawns and picket fence and associated risk of death by auto.

There is nothing extreme about living in a dense walkable neighborhood. When I walk my kid to the pool, there is no 5pt harness required
I think you are perhaps not seeing the big picture?

I grew up in a "high walkability" score North American city (Toronto) & I have family in Ottawa.

Believe me everybody drives. You get more than 1 mile off the subway system, and you are dependent upon buses which might come twice in an hour, in cities which are not as cold as Minneapolis but have plenty of winter and very hot and humid summers, and people drive.

Most people in Greater Toronto Area live in suburbs where public transport is thin on the ground or nonexistent. This, in a city which was historically ranked as one of the best for transit in North America (not sure that would still be true). I'd say of the 7 million people, maybe 1 million have good access to public transport (basically the downtown core & the 2 main arms of the subway). 1-2 million have access to adequate public transport, and the rest ... there's a 22 lane highway for a reason.

If that's true of Toronto, then think Atlanta or Houston. I did once take the bus in Baltimore, and I was almost certainly the only person on the bus who was not under the influence or suffering from a psychiatric disorder.

I entirely agree that society has gone mad for cars -- this is a huge problem in Britain, for example, which you wouldn't think if you contemplate the (catastrophically) successful London Underground. It leads to a physically and mentally less healthy population.

But not all of Europe is Copenhagen or Utrecht. France for example has quite poor commuter trains, and everybody seems to own a car. Italians drive everywhere (and park wherever they like ;-)).

But I think it's unreasonable to expect most North Americans to live in places where the car is not the primary means of transport. Even in the further reaches of Queens & Brooklyn, I didn't think it would be that easy to live without a car? And that's New York, which is North America's transit city par excellence.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by Cycle »

Valuethinker wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:07 am
I think you are perhaps not seeing the big picture?

I grew up in a "high walkability" score North American city (Toronto) & I have family in Ottawa.

Believe me everybody drives. You get more than 1 mile off the subway system, and you are dependent upon buses which might come twice in an hour, in cities which are not as cold as Minneapolis but have plenty of winter and very hot and humid summers, and people drive.

Most people in Greater Toronto Area live in suburbs where public transport is thin on the ground or nonexistent. This, in a city which was historically ranked as one of the best for transit in North America (not sure that would still be true). I'd say of the 7 million people, maybe 1 million have good access to public transport (basically the downtown core & the 2 main arms of the subway). 1-2 million have access to adequate public transport, and the rest ... there's a 22 lane highway for a reason.

If that's true of Toronto, then think Atlanta or Houston. I did once take the bus in Baltimore, and I was almost certainly the only person on the bus who was not under the influence or suffering from a psychiatric disorder.

I entirely agree that society has gone mad for cars -- this is a huge problem in Britain, for example, which you wouldn't think if you contemplate the (catastrophically) successful London Underground. It leads to a physically and mentally less healthy population.

But not all of Europe is Copenhagen or Utrecht. France for example has quite poor commuter trains, and everybody seems to own a car. Italians drive everywhere (and park wherever they like ;-)).

But I think it's unreasonable to expect most North Americans to live in places where the car is not the primary means of transport. Even in the further reaches of Queens & Brooklyn, I didn't think it would be that easy to live without a car? And that's New York, which is North America's transit city par excellence.
People pick where they live and where they work, and their decision impacts the risk profile to their family.

Just bc a bunch of people are engaging in the same dangerous activity, doesn't mean you'll be spared the consequences.

It is a no brainier for me to go with the carfree street I live on over some sidewalk free suburban street. I lived in the latter and don't recommend it... Too dangerous.

On seeing the bigger picture, I do wish the car class could understand the impact they have on others, mainly related to noise pollution, air pollution, road departures, parking demand, and climate change.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by oldfatguy »

Cycle wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:51 am
oldfatguy wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:36 am
Cycle wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:16 am If you care about safety of your child, don't drive (and don't own a pool). After 4 years old, cars are the number one cause of children deaths, before that it's drowning.
Or ... make sure your child is always in a properly installed and adjusted car seat, and teach them how to swim. You can never eliminate risk, but it seems a little extreme to avoid cars and water.
You can greatly reduce these risks. Cars arent required in many neighborhoods in the US, most people pick the leafy lawns and picket fence and associated risk of death by auto.

There is nothing extreme about living in a dense walkable neighborhood. When I walk my kid to the pool, there is no 5pt harness required
First, how many of the children killed in motor vehicle accidents were riding in the car vs. pedestrians or on bikes? Of those riding in cars, how many were in properly installed car seats or wearing seat belts? How many were riding in the back seat in a vehicle with side-impact air bags? How many were riding with drivers who were under the influence of alcohol or drugs, or talking on a cell phone? If you drill down far enough, the risk is already very small for most people who take common-sense precautions. It's not nothing, but it is small.

Second, most people in the US cannot live in places where they can easily walk to work, school, or most other places. And if everyone in the US tried to move to such places, there wouldn't be enough room for them, nor could they afford it, nor would there be jobs for them.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by Cycle »

oldfatguy wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:57 am
Cycle wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:51 am
oldfatguy wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:36 am
Cycle wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:16 am If you care about safety of your child, don't drive (and don't own a pool). After 4 years old, cars are the number one cause of children deaths, before that it's drowning.
Or ... make sure your child is always in a properly installed and adjusted car seat, and teach them how to swim. You can never eliminate risk, but it seems a little extreme to avoid cars and water.
You can greatly reduce these risks. Cars arent required in many neighborhoods in the US, most people pick the leafy lawns and picket fence and associated risk of death by auto.

There is nothing extreme about living in a dense walkable neighborhood. When I walk my kid to the pool, there is no 5pt harness required
First, how many of the children killed in motor vehicle accidents were riding in the car vs. pedestrians or on bikes? Of those riding in cars, how many were in properly installed car seats or wearing seat belts? How many were riding in the back seat in a vehicle with side-impact air bags? How many were riding with drivers who were under the influence of alcohol or drugs, or talking on a cell phone? If you drill down far enough, the risk is already very small for most people who take common-sense precautions. It's not nothing, but it is small.

Second, most people in the US cannot live in places where they can easily walk to work, school, or most other places. And if everyone in the US tried to move to such places, there wouldn't be enough room for them, nor could they afford it, nor would there be jobs for them.
No time like the present for change. It was only 40 years of major infrastructure building for the car, and this is starting to get reversed. In response to the high cycle fatalities in NYC, they are rolling out 1.5B in pedestrian and cycle infrastructure. 250 miles of additional protected bike lanes.

Here we are getting bus only lanes and more protected bike lanes.

The most impactful thing one can do is bug their councilmember, but after that it's creating demand by moving where the infrastructure already exists.

I left my garbage neighborhood after learning all the problem streets in my neighborhood weren't going to be fixed for another 8 years.

The changes are happening everywhere. Checkout strongtowns for examples
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by eye.surgeon »

Cycle wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:16 am
As parents it is your responsibility to shield them from unnecessary risk. When I see a parent loading a child into a car, I feel bad for the child.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

I had no idea that seat belts might need to be replaced. :shock:

When did replacing seat belts after an accident become a requirement?

Our van is a 2008 model, so it seems that the feature must have came out later than 2008.

We did have trouble with a seat belt that a grandson totally hosed up, somehow. Thankfully the issue wasn't because of an accident, just a boy being a boy. :oops:

Fortunately his uncle is a mechanic and saved his hide.

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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by cdu7 »

Cycle wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:16 am If you care about safety of your child, don't drive (and don't own a pool). After 4 years old, cars are the number one cause of children deaths, before that it's drowning.

I rarely drive my infant anywhere since we live in a walkable neighborhood on a car free street.

As parents it is your responsibility to shield them from unnecessary risk. When I see a parent loading a child into a car, I feel bad for the child.
This is the most out there comment I have read in a long time. You just said that the vast majority of the world doesn't care about the safety of their child because they allow them to be transported in cars....... wild......

As for replacing the car, definitely not; swap out the parts if you are worried, but my seatbelts seem to deploy all the time whenever I'm pulling on them quickly with my hands (i.e. lock).
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by adamthesmythe »

Cycle wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:51 am
oldfatguy wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:36 am
Cycle wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:16 am If you care about safety of your child, don't drive (and don't own a pool). After 4 years old, cars are the number one cause of children deaths, before that it's drowning.
Or ... make sure your child is always in a properly installed and adjusted car seat, and teach them how to swim. You can never eliminate risk, but it seems a little extreme to avoid cars and water.
You can greatly reduce these risks. Cars arent required in many neighborhoods in the US, most people pick the leafy lawns and picket fence and associated risk of death by auto.

There is nothing extreme about living in a dense walkable neighborhood. When I walk my kid to the pool, there is no 5pt harness required
Correct that to: Cars are not required in a very few neighborhoods in the US.

For decades I walked to work. But that option is open to a very few people.

And riding a bike...even if weather was not a problem...I consider that far risker than a car. Or walking.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by Cycle »

cdu7 wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:15 pm
This is the most out there comment I have read in a long time. You just said that the vast majority of the world doesn't care about the safety of their child because they allow them to be transported in cars....... wild......
Lot easier to walk somewhere than cure cancer, but what do I know

I wouldn't say they don't care, but they certainly aren't taking appropriate action on that care.

BTW, motorization rate is about 15% globally, so it's a minority of parents that are opting to put their kids in harm's way through regular use of high speed transportation machinery.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by oldfatguy »

Cycle wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:24 pm
cdu7 wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:15 pm
This is the most out there comment I have read in a long time. You just said that the vast majority of the world doesn't care about the safety of their child because they allow them to be transported in cars....... wild......
Lot easier to walk somewhere than cure cancer, but what do I know

I wouldn't say they don't care, but they certainly aren't taking appropriate action on that care.

BTW, motorization rate is about 15% globally, so it's a minority of parents that are opting to put their kids in harm's way through regular use of high speed transportation machinery.
Do you even know what the actual risk level is, after accounting for all the variables I suggested above? What is the death rate for children in the US from riding in a car with side-impact air bags, while properly restrained in the back seat of the vehicle, driven by a sober driver who is not talking or texting on a cell phone? I doubt there is a single source of data to even know that, but I believe the risk is very small. I'm middle-aged and have never personally known a single person killed in a motor vehicle accident, let alone a child passenger. Of course it happens, but it is pretty rare.

As several others have pointed out, it's really not an option for most people to function in our society without cars.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

Cycle wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:24 pm
cdu7 wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:15 pm
This is the most out there comment I have read in a long time. You just said that the vast majority of the world doesn't care about the safety of their child because they allow them to be transported in cars....... wild......
Lot easier to walk somewhere than cure cancer, but what do I know

I wouldn't say they don't care, but they certainly aren't taking appropriate action on that care.

BTW, motorization rate is about 15% globally, so it's a minority of parents that are opting to put their kids in harm's way through regular use of high speed transportation machinery.
What portion of those people you are discussing can even afford a car. Kinda a poor example. Their needs are clean water more than motorized vehicles.

Europe is compact, densely populated. Our county is huge, and not very densely populated in most areas.

There are some areas that lend themselves to walking, or even mass transit. In reality, unless you can afford living near employment, cars are your option. My next-door neighbor bikes to his job, about 8 miles away. He still has three vehicles, for the other 3 people living in his home. His wife provides care to his aged father, and their children need vehicles to commute to college

Don't get me wrong, I wish I could have afforded to live within walking distance, or even bicycle range, but it just wasn't feasible. I was able to ride an express bus for a few years, nice experience. But, changing job responsibilities killed that ability.

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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by Helo80 »

Cycle wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:16 am If you care about safety of your child, don't drive (and don't own a pool). After 4 years old, cars are the number one cause of children deaths, before that it's drowning.

I rarely drive my infant anywhere since we live in a walkable neighborhood on a car free street.

As parents it is your responsibility to shield them from unnecessary risk. When I see a parent loading a child into a car, I feel bad for the child.
Oh boy... I need to start bookmarking my Top 10 comments on this forum.... I think you're competitive for the Top 5 comments I have ever read on this site.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by Helo80 »

LadyGeek wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:25 pm This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (car).

This thread is going to get locked in 24 hours. But, there is a decent chance I will not live to see this moment as I will drive a vehicle in the next 24 hours.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by Helo80 »

Cycle wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:26 am For vacation, we can walk to the train which gets us to the airport which gets us to anywhere in the world. We are going to Utrecht in the spring, where responsible parents were able to defeat the car culture.


Trains generally run on electricity and are fairly safe forms of travel.

However, airplanes fly in the air with software code built by the lowest overseas bidder (see Boeing). They run on jet fuel that is HIGHLY flammable and HIGHLY explosive. When jets crash, fatality rates are terrible. People who love their infants would never take them on this extremely risky form of transportation.
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by bmwz »

Yes but only a Tesla
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by head gamez »

Cycle wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:26 am We visit one elderly parent by car, but our miles driven is very low, so our child's exposure to the risk of death by car is much lower than most Americans.
Seems like such an unnecessary risk to me.... why not walk to avoid the stigma of placing your child in danger?
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

OK, we got it now. Cars are OK afterall, if one needs one. Whew!

Back to the OP's original question: Seat belts can easily be replaced, even rebuilt in some cases, so there is no need to buy a new car.

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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by Cycle »

At least OP should now be reassured that they aren't overthinking
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Re: Should I actually buy a new car ? (Seat Belt Deployed)

Post by LadyGeek »

I removed an off-topic post and reply. This thread has run its course and is locked (topic exhausted). See: Locked Topics
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